Can you explain?

[Roy Monis]

Roy I must inform you

Long before you came to BTs ...some at Tent were there Long before you....

I assure you I know the work of L.Ray.Smith and he too knows me, I also Know the Mods there very well too...,

Not the new ones ,but Guys like Craig, Hills ( Joe) Dennis...and me old Mate Chris Read..we go back a few yrs...

so if your going to use his work and words here, there nothing new my friend, well not to me....

Im well aware of what Grace means....its obvious from your previous post that you didnt know what falling away meant as one falling BACK TO LAW, that being the law of MOSES...BECAUSE, INDEED it does have something to do with it.

You have a beef about a carnal Jesus and a spiritual ONE...more than a few have adressed it,

Ill warn you this brother, if you expect those at TENT to agree with your EVERY WORD....then I suggest your at the wrong venue...if you wish to share your thoughts and veiws along side us, then indeed your welcome.

If you set yourself UP..there are those here who will quite happily MEET YOU AT THAT PLACE BRO..., for all other have their opinion also

Blessings
Taffy a fellow Brit :icon_flower:

Hi! Taffy

So I didn't know that falling out of grace in Rev. meant falling back to the law. That's as much as you know with all your years of experience that you so proudly declare, have you forgotten that humility is one of God's major requirements, I see precious little of that here. If I commit a sin and don't repent of it am I still under grace? Have I suddenly slipped back under the law? Come of it, brother, you fall out of grace the moment you disobey God's Word and don't repent.

But why are we still discussing these matters seeing that we have no common ground, you believe in two masters, the Created and the Begotten. I believe in just the One Begotten God. So let us agree to disagree. 

I don't know what you mean by this statement: "If you set yourself UP..there are those here who will quite happily MEET YOU AT THAT PLACE BRO..., for all other have their opinion also."

Are you referring to me? If so, in what way have I set myself up in anything, all I've done is express my belief and profess that Jesus Christ is Born of God and the true Creator in obedience to His command. "Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven."  (Matt.10:32-33). Do you see anything wrong in that, because even if you do, bad luck, I will not stop? You wouldn't by any chance be confusing yourself with me, brother, regarding the setting yourself up and MEET YOU AT THAT PLACE BRO. You make it sound like a dangerous crowd. I'm expressing my opinion and not interfering with anyone else's opinion so what's the big deal?

If anyone wants to discuss my opinion on something I'm happy to do so, if they don't then just don't get involved and if I've no one interested I'll soon shut up. If I plunge into a discussion I have to have a good reason for doing so, or I keep out.

Now does that clear things up? We don't see eye to eye on the subject I've raised so don't get involved. I've learned a lot from BT and it's a lot more than I'm going to learn here by the looks of it. I'm indebted to BT though I don't see eye to eye with their teaching on this very subject we're discussing here.

So let's agree to disagree as brothers in Christ Jesus our Lord. Amen!

Peace!(http://dl3.glitter-graphics.net/pub/913/913823shy6qui595.gif)

Roy   



 

[laren]

I've learned a lot from BT and it's a lot more than I'm going to learn here by the looks of it. I'm indebted to BT though I don't see eye to eye with their teaching on this very subject we're discussing here.

So let's agree to disagree as brothers in Christ Jesus our Lord. Amen!

Peace!(http://dl3.glitter-graphics.net/pub/913/913823shy6qui595.gif)

Roy   


 

well if u don't see eye to eye with BT on this subject, then it seems you are indebted to a bunch of people teaching false teachings, and those going to LOF (based on your posts that if one doesn't believe the way u do, they will be burned.  Where is the separation from babylon"?


quote from your earlier post ""I'm sorry but I do not mix myself up with other heathen religions. You say that Tentmakers is only interested in those who believe in salvation for all mankind. That's precisely it, I believe in the salvation of all mankind, but if we do not believe in the True Jesus Of that salvation then we are all going to burn in God's Consuming Fire for one heck of a long time. Which is no walk in the park."I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." (Jn.14:6). That is my rock and foundation nothing else, no arguments, totally biased.'

[willieH]

THIS LIFE, ...IS... the Lake of Fire...

I think it might be for us believers,--Judgment begins at the house of God-- but I don't know about the others.

I see a lot of wicked seeming to prosper. :dontknow:



1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Believers don't go through the Lake of Fire. This cannot be the Lake of Fire, because it happens last.

I will be answering this post in the NEW THREAD:

LAKE OF FIRE... part of the Revelation of JESUS CHRIST...

In Bible Threatenings Forum...  :happygrin:


PeacE...
...willieH  :icon_king:

[Taffy]

So I didn't know that falling out of grace in Rev. meant falling back to the law.

indeed you didnt, then so much for your Humilty my friend, for it was you who mentioned it..so, can we Just stick to scriptural terms , so we dont get LOST with our own versions of what we think IT is,,Noted by Laren as the LONG time spent in the lake..whichYOU STARTED.

That's as much as you know with all your years of experience that you so proudly declare, have you forgotten that humility is one of God's major requirements, I see precious little of that here.

opps there you go again..if you expect me to BOW to you with YES SIR ,NO SIR ,thank you very much sir...then think again my British Friend...., been down that path BOWING to men...dint like it much as they used my humilty and beat me on the HEAD with it.....I bow to NO man Roy, Inc YOU...especially by your admitance of being WRONG...Get a Grip Roy

If I commit a sin and don't repent of it am I still under grace? Have I suddenly slipped back under the law? Come of it, brother, you fall out of grace the moment you disobey God's Word and don't repent.

Ok Roy back to you,,whats sin ? Define under the New C SO I know of what you speak of...can you answer this?....or will you avoid it like the other few questions given....then Ill happilly reply to the rest of your statement

But why are we still discussing these matters seeing that we have no common ground, you believe in two masters, the Created and the Begotten. I believe in just the One Begotten God. So let us agree to disagree.

Roy excuse me..But you are BLIND to the words you quote..IVE BEEN FOLLOWING the thread about this on Bts all day..Kat, Hills among others  ,have been striving to tell you the same thing.....But no brother..everyone else be wrong, BAR YOU...maybe Ill post the link here to see that thread....what say you?
you dont LISTEN brother because you see WHAT you wish to see....thats it

I don't know what you mean by this statement: "If you set yourself UP..there are those here who will quite happily MEET YOU AT THAT PLACE BRO..., for all other have their opinion also."

Let me explain then Roy,if you SET yourself UP expecting OTHERS to see things YOUR WAY, then expect OTHERS who dont agree with you to propose thiers and WHY?

Are you referring to me?

No Roy, the Cats Auntie..who do you think Roy?

If so, in what way have I set myself up in anything, all I've done is express my belief and profess that Jesus Christ is Born of God and the true Creator in obedience to His command. "Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven."  (Matt.10:32-33). Do you see anything wrong in that, because even if you do, bad luck, I will not stop? You wouldn't by any chance be confusing yourself with me, brother, regarding the setting yourself up and MEET YOU AT THAT PLACE BRO. You make it sound like a dangerous crowd. I'm expressing my opinion and not interfering with anyone else's opinion so what's the big deal?

Im heartened to Hear Opinion Roy ,because up to Now thats all you propose...even thou many have given you alternatives....,yes Roy express your biews by all means..but what Ive seen thus Far ,for those who dont agree with you are deem false prophets, false christs etc ..maybe youll like me to add these to this Post ,for others to figure because for sure that what you Implied...Thats not very Nice Roy...I suppose you would call It "what HAS DARKNESS to do with LIGHT"...as you Know the scrips, then youll Know the one I mean.
we aint dangerous Roy,,far from it bro...ya got the wrong end of the Stick

If anyone wants to discuss my opinion on something I'm happy to do so, if they don't then just don't get involved and if I've no one interested I'll soon shut up. If I plunge into a discussion I have to have a good reason for doing so, or I keep out.

Thats a very good point Roy,cause for sure, this thread has exhausted itself.

could you be so Kind to adress those few questions posted earlier matey Or will yet again avoid them...im betting on the Latter.... :icon_flower:

I hate religion Roy....sorta makes my skin crawl and raises the Blood pressure a Little..

Later if you so cal wish Brother

Tafft

[Taffy]

THIS LIFE, ...IS... the Lake of Fire...

I think it might be for us believers,--Judgment begins at the house of God-- but I don't know about the others.

I see a lot of wicked seeming to prosper. :dontknow:



1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Believers don't go through the Lake of Fire. This cannot be the Lake of Fire, because it happens last.

I will be answering this post in the NEW THREAD:

LAKE OF FIRE... part of the Revelation of JESUS CHRIST...

In Bible Threatenings Forum...  :happygrin:


PeacE...
...willieH  :icon_king:

Phew thank you willie for not taking the Bait...,

Nothing perSonal Craig, as I understand where you both are on The lake...I just saw a Red Rag To a Bull... :laughing7:

But you both Know what Im saying :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

T

[Taffy]

I've learned a lot from BT and it's a lot more than I'm going to learn here by the looks of it. I'm indebted to BT though I don't see eye to eye with their teaching on this very subject we're discussing here.

So let's agree to disagree as brothers in Christ Jesus our Lord. Amen!

Of course Roy Lets,,,,.....But sounds a Little to me, you came to Tent MAYBE to seek AGREEANCE with what you you proposed..seems we have a Little more  in common with Bts than you suggest, becuase you havent found it here Either....
:icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

[Craig]

So I didn't know that falling out of grace in Rev. meant falling back to the law. That's as much as you know with all your years of experience that you so proudly declare, have you forgotten that humility is one of God's major requirements, I see precious little of that here. If I commit a sin and don't repent of it am I still under grace? Have I suddenly slipped back under the law? Come of it, brother, you fall out of grace the moment you disobey God's Word and don't repent.

Hello Roy,

I agree with the error you are seeing concerning grace and law and will expound on this. Though I agree with you on the Only Begotten of God, I reserve my answer for later.

In the meantime, let me address this above quote.

When I was pastor of a church which taught exclusively on Grace there was nothing else we taught. It was awesome. Along the way, we had to face constant misunderstandings of Grace. So we encountered some errors in reasoning.

Error #1.
If a person was to fall from Grace...
  ...they fell back to the Law.

When Paul said those who seek to be justified by the law have fallen from grace, he was not saying at the same time, those who seek to be justified by grace have fallen from the law. Grace and Law are not opposites nor is one an antonym of the other. Grace does not replace the law, nor does law replace grace as a system of salvation or belief. Earlier in the letter to Galatians, Paul writes that the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ so that we may be justified by faith, now that faith as come we are no longer under the law.

So now we recognize what Paul was talking about when it came to 'falling from grace'. What was happening with Galatians was that they had divine favour (Grace) with God to spread the Gospel, but the moment they began to teach a different gospel (one justified by the law) they were no longer under that divine favour but were treated as those who have abandoned faith and treated as unbelievers.

The answer:
If a person was to fall from grace...
...means they have fallen from divine favour.
If a person seeks to be justified by the law...
...means they are bound by unbelief (we are justified by faith).
A person who lives by unbelief...
...means they will be cut off like Israel who also sought to be justified by the law and fell from grace as a result.

So just as you said, to fall from grace does not mean that we have fallen to the law. To fall from grace means we have done something which prevents us from enjoying the benefits of the Kingdom of God.

As Paul writes, "You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth? That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. 'A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.' I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion will pay the penalty, whoever he may be. You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

The problem I see is that people who came into the understanding of Universal Salvation/Ultimate Reconciliation/etc. have taken with them their old way of thinking. They continue to believe that if someone falls from grace, that they have fallen from reconciliation with God and that somehow hell has become perpetual again! What stunted growth indeed. They need to renew their minds by the washing of the Word, and recognize that when it is not good to have zeal without knowledge and if they do not know the righteousness that comes from God they have sought to establish their own, and they do not submit to God's righteousness.

Now of course we are justified by his grace through redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement by faith (not man's faith, but God's faith) in His blood.

Now concerning the Begotten or Created of God, though I believe Jesus is the Only Begotten and not created in any fashion so do not think I am posting in disagreement. What people do not understand about me is that I defend the right for people to believe what they believe as long as they have a rational and reasonable cause to believe it. That means, though I agree with you concerning Jesus Christ, I need to see why this is so important that everyone else needs to know it without condemnation and other forms of fallacy.

[martincisneros]

Of course Roy Lets,,,,.....But sounds a Little to me, you came to Tent MAYBE to seek AGREEANCE with what you you proposed..seems we have a Little more  in common with Bts than you suggest, becuase you havent found it here Either...

I'm not sure if anybody around here really even agrees with anybody else 70% of the time on all things that come up.  If it's genuinely important, then you can find a way of edifying, encouraging, nurturing, and even exciting with it from time to time.  That's how I personally judge what to post and what not to post.  If it's just a personal opinion and I can't figure how anyone would genuinely be the better for it, the more lightened of whatever burdens they've had that day, or the more eager to go out and win the world to Christ, then I'll seldom ever go there.  I've known countless ministers [and other Christian brethren] that at the end of their lives were deeply regretful that they hadn't spent more time with the ministry of encouragement during their ministries.  Personally, now that I've been made aware of it, I won't have that regret.  Life's already full of things "to put everyone in their place" from the moment you get up to the moment that you go to bed.  The boards should be an escape from that and not just one more place to argue about one more thing.

[Molly]

I'm getting confused here.  Does anyone in this thread think Jesus is created?

They have reopened investigation on the shroud of Turin--maybe it's the real thing after all.

But, one intriquing fact about it--the scientists think the image was created by a sudden increase in temperature of a chemical/biological nature from the body inside the shroud--could this turn out to be physical proof of the resurrection?  

Jesus claimed he would be responsible for resurrecting himself.  Could a created being do that?



John 2:19
Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.





17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.



Also, what is BT?

[Taffy]

So just as you said, to fall from grace does not mean that we have fallen to the law. To fall from grace means we have done something which prevents us from enjoying the benefits of the Kingdom of God.

so Craig what would these things be...

when all Iread is this..

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

for mine,yes the LAW was to lead to Christ..but the rest of what your saying,,mm...
explian moere

[martincisneros]

They have reopened investigation on the shroud of Turin--maybe it's the real thing after all.

It is the real thing.  In the years since it's carbon-14 dating, tons and tons of evidence has come up to discredit that original medieval dating of it.  Plus the stitching is uniquely 1st century Palestine.  Lots of other interesting stuff about it that one could get into.

But, one intriquing fact about it--the scientists think the image was created by a sudden increase in temperature of a chemical/biological nature from the body inside the shroud--could this turn out to be physical proof of the resurrection?

Beyond that, the image on the shroud and on it's accompanying face cloth [that's usually kept somewhere else and goes by a different name] turn out to be a perfect hologram with encoded digital information.  Again, impossible to forge in the 1200s, just as the photography aspect of it that was discovered a little over a hundred years ago.  The image was also created in negative gravity.  Some scientists say that it's evidence of the Creation of a new Universe.

Also, what is BT?

L. Ray Smith's Bible Truths website www.bible-truths.com

[Craig]

So just as you said, to fall from grace does not mean that we have fallen to the law. To fall from grace means we have done something which prevents us from enjoying the benefits of the Kingdom of God.

so Craig what would these things be...

when all Iread is this..

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

for mine,yes the LAW was to lead to Christ..but the rest of what your saying,,mm...
explian moere

Taffy,

Why not read all of the letter to Galations as a whole and find out instead of reading line upon line, precept upon precept, which leads one to fall backward, be injured and snared and captured? If you had kept reading even kept reading Galations 5, you would find out what these things would be.

Here they are: The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. -Galations 5:19-21

Craig

[Taffy]

Here they are: The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Come on Craig..if I havent read.....

these are those which keep us from Entering ....yes ,the Flesh ,but Im spirit Bro ,Paul Tells me,Ive died to the Flesh, seeing these things mentioned in a different light to you maybe friend ,these ARE the WORKS of the Flesh,which PREVENT us being ONE with HIM..., My flesh has died, been Burnt, therefore  I no longer LIVE....

Just how can I put this into words... :icon_flower:., the Flesh doesnt wish TO DIE,its enmity...TO THE SPIRIT,...THE WICKED is No longer Craig.....these things listed No longer prevent me being ONE....for I live in the SPIRIT...

For me it about the battle within..Flesh V spirit., the flesh remains in Darkness dead, while we toil against the spirit, by submitting ,for the sense of a better word, the flesh dies and we become one again with HIM........ill try harder tomorrow Craig....

Im not disagreeing but im trying to relate maybe a different concept to what Is normally taught....I live Grace and Truth Brother,,not by the WORKS of the Flesh...

later bud
G

[Craig]

You asked:

"so Craig what would these things be..."

I answered.

There is no secret agenda or motive. If you want me to explain more, the first thing that needed to be clarified is that you knew what those things would be. It seemed you set yourself as judge concerning these things, as if there was not anything you could do which would prevent you from inheriting the Kingdom of God.

[Taffy]

You asked:

"so Craig what would these things be..."

I answered.

There is no secret agenda or motive. If you want me to explain more, the first thing that needed to be clarified is that you knew what those things would be. It seemed you set yourself as judge concerning these things, as if there was not anything you could do which would prevent you from inheriting the Kingdom of God.

Craig.. Thank you for anwering for I did ask,..I just wanted you to clarify what you MEANT AS YOU didnt put in your POST to Roy did you...No you didnt... therefore forgive me for asking for clarification...and me for being so silly not to read the Gal 5

Indeed Craig I Judge Myself, as quoted in an earlier post.

1Cr 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

have a Nice day Craig..see you over the Lake of fire thread.... :icon_flower:

[Craig]

Well if you knew the answer, why ask the question there was no clarification just an trap which I disarmed.

What do you think the works of the flesh are? Do you think it is the Law?

[Taffy]

Well if you knew the answer, why ask the question there was no clarification just an trap which I disarmed.

What do you think the works of the flesh are? Do you think it is the Law?

no craig your wrong....utter rubbish.....Craig  please get off that defensive streak which reaps RIGHT THROUGH YOU..youll endear more people that way...we are NOT your enemy Bro, but your Neither the VOICE of all.


the works of the Flesh are what I stated....those which KEEP me from being spirit..thought that was plain enough .


works of the Flesh...yes some can like adultery etc be associated..but its the Flesh within which is being talked about

and Like I said...Im spirit..what are you Craig,,bound by the Flesh?,,...do these things bother you bro?

if so why?....

Like I said scripture shows us we Indeed judge Ourselves as noted.....dont you/

where do you wish to go with this? because up till now you aint got no where

[Craig]

Well if you knew the answer, why ask the question there was no clarification just an trap which I disarmed.

What do you think the works of the flesh are? Do you think it is the Law?

no craig your wrong....utter rubbish.....Craig  please get off that defensive streak which reaps RIGHT THROUGH YOU..youll endear more people that way...we are NOT your enemy Bro, but your Neither the VOICE of all.


the works of the Flesh are what I stated....those which KEEP me from being spirit..thought that was plain enough .


works of the Flesh...yes some can like adultery etc be associated..but its the Flesh within which is being talked about

and Like I said...Im spirit..what are you Craig,,bound by the Flesh?,,...do these things bother you bro?

if so why?....

Like I said scripture shows us we Indeed judge Ourselves as noted.....dont you/

where do you wish to go with this? because up till now you aint got no where

What is that supposed to mean? Where did I say I was voice to all? I have never asserted this, nor claimed this. So where does this come fro?

You must be blind to it, because once again you set up the questions as if to position yourself as God over your own life.  Like Ron pointed out, there is a lack of humility in your responses, because any time it is brought up that there is an authority greater than you, you affirm you are your own judge. Brother, don't take the 'judge' yourself out of context.

1 Corinthians 11:31
But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment.

It doesn't say, "if I judge myself, I would not come under judgment."

Believe it or not, you are held accountable by your brothers and sisters in Christ, you do not belong to yourself when you submitted to Christ but the Body.

1 Corinthians 5:11-13
But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

Here is what it means to fall from Grace. We are to judge those who call themselves the 'church', if someone calls himself a brother but lives by the works of the flesh, he has fallen from grace he is not part of the 'church' and God will judge them and sinners of Zion tremble because of it.

If it is a misunderstanding, then understand it is a misunderstanding. I am replying to your words and if they are not what you meant, then just say it. I can accept misunderstanding, I cannot accept an attack from you.

[Taffy]

What is that supposed to mean? Where did I say I was voice to all? I have never asserted this, nor claimed this. So where does this come fro?

You assumed Criag that I set out to Trap you...I didnt , I asked a More than resonable question concerning what you thought,...even when I apologised for your over sight, you kept on, it was I who apologied for you, Not clarifying what you meant..

You must be blind to it, because once again you set up the questions as if to position yourself as God over your own life.  Like Ron pointed out, there is a lack of humility in your responses, because any time it is brought up that there is an authority greater than you, you affirm you are your own judge. Brother, don't take the 'judge' yourself out of context

wow Craig, you want to have a good look on the discusion  between you and  I ...ONLY one has apologised...and you say I lack humility..thanks you bro,..May I suggest take a look in the mirror

1 Corinthians 11:31
But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment.

It doesn't say, "if I judge myself, I would not come under judgment."

Believe it or not, you are held accountable by your brothers and sisters in Christ, you do not belong to yourself when you submitted to Christ but the Body.

And I agree Craig, my body is Not My BODY, its HIS,....

doesnt It, if one eats worthily of the body , Then Indeed there is No judgment , ..but the PRE-REQUISITE is we EAT worthily....thats what  you mean isnt it?

1Cr 2:15  But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.


1Cr 2:16  For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.




for it is those who ATE unworthily who are subjected to BE JUDGED., those who are alseep and sick, ...perhaps they were just having a Kip in the pews at the back

but it seems there were some among the Corinthians who werent worthy..., what Has darkness to do with Light , flesh and SPIRIT do not Mix bro...




for mine, those who are told "do Not eat with.....",Indeed walk in the Light and In the spirit, while those who sleep, live in darkness.....

1Cr 5:6  Your glorying [is] not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?


1Cr 5:7  Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:


1Cr 5:8  Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth.

1 Corinthians 5:11-13
But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

Here is what it means to fall from Grace. We are to judge those who call themselves the 'church', if someone calls himself a brother but lives by the works of the flesh, he has fallen from grace he is not part of the 'church' and God will judge them and sinners of Zion tremble because of it.

If it is a misunderstanding, then understand it is a misunderstanding. I am replying to your words and if they are not what you meant, then just say it. I can accept misunderstanding, I cannot accept an attack from you.

Whos attacking you craig, for certainly not I,..wasnt made it clear ABOUT the works of the flesh , THAT I being dead to it, in my previous post ,that the WICKED is dead,...

The church at Corinth as you know was at Its early stages...babes to the word...still saw very much after the works of the Flesh which Included law .....

1Cr 3:1  And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, [even] as unto babes in Christ.


1Cr 3:2  I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able [to bear it], neither yet now are ye able.


1Cr 3:3  For ye are yet carnal: for whereas [there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?



They were very much still learning of the Inward man of the Heart, walking in the ways of the flesh , not knowing That the flesh was truly dead..

1Cr 5:5  To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

I see paul saying I cant be with you always , those among you who are strong in the faith KEEP the FAITH,and not let the young be mislead by the works of the flesh....seems they were taking other MATTERS BEFORE THE law, paul mentions it in the very next verse, hardly surprising their was strife and contention

1Cr 6:1  Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

as you know later in the Book, we see  a different side of Paul...Far better to be encouraged in LOVE than BY the WORD of the ROD, Are these not the same people he was talking about earlier in the Book?

Those who SLEEP are SICK AND WEAK in the faith.. far better to Judge ourselves than Have God chasten us as Paul showed earlier when admonishing....but irresepective, the Spirit will be saved...sorta, how do you want it....this way OR THAT....

this for me is  a re-iteration of what He said earlier...but with softer words...


1Cr 11:27  Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink [this] cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.


1Cr 11:28  But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup.


1Cr 11:29  For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.


1Cr 11:30  For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.


1Cr 11:31  For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.


1Cr 11:32  But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

1Cr 11:33  Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.


1Cr 11:34  And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.

SO yes Craig, Falling From Grace is to works of the Flesh is Likened to the works of the LAW, for if you fail in one point, you fail in all others.

As for BRO Roy,..and BRO Craig...


1Jo 3:14  We know that we have *passed from death unto life*, because we love the brethren. He that *loveth not* his brother *abideth in death*.

Blessings






:icon_flower:

[Roy Monis]

2Pe 1:5  And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;


2Pe 1:6  And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;


2Pe 1:7  And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.


2Pe 1:8  For if these things be in you, and abound, they make [you that ye shall] neither [be] barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.


2Pe 1:9  But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.


2Pe 1:10  Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

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Hi! Brother Laren.

You're talking about a wrong age, brother. What we are discussing here came into being long, long before Jesus appeared on earth in the flesh. Read John 1:1-3 for an idea of where we are at. All you have said in your three postings come into being ages after.

Peace! url=http://www.glitter-graphics.com](http://dl4.glitter-graphics.net/pub/1176/1176424t4nufen6go.gif)[/url]

Roy   UK 

[laren]

no,

you said that if one doesn't beleive in the "true Jesus" that he will burn for a very long time. 


that is not a long ago age.


you have taken it throught the ages, from long ago to the end.

[Roy Monis]

Perhaps . .but to say it's a different Jesus . . .to me . .it's the same Jesus . . .it's his interpretation of Jesus that's incomplete.  Like what was stated with the JW . . .now "their" belief of Jesus is a different Jesus than what Paul preaches.  I don't know, maybe it's just in the phonetics.

Doesn't Jesus warn us of this very thing?

He warns us for a reason.


23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

--Mat 24


Besides, regarding Hagee, killing people is not 'phonetics.'

Hi! Molly

Good one, and well said. Jesus does indeed warn about this very thing and you're on the right track. There is only the one True Jesus Christ who was Begotten/Born/Given birth to by the Father and not created by Him.  Jesus Christ is NOT a creature, repeat, NOT A CREATURE  He is the Son of God. Born as an identical snapshot image of the Father. The Bible says so and if you don't believe it throw your Bible out the door, that is Scripture and Scripture cannot be broken. End of story. Not my word but God's Word, read it.

"Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven."  (Matt.10:32-33).


Peace!it.url=http://www.glitter-graphics.com](http://dl4.glitter-graphics.net/pub/1176/1176424t4nufen6go.gif)[/url]


Roy   UK

[Roy Monis]

Sigh . . .so . . .let's just killem' all then. 

Look, we have a different vision than Hagee, that's obvious and apparent, but I think it gets a little dangerous when we become judgmental about them and use literal interpretations to again, cut other people down.  There for the grace of God go I.  Who's to say that this time tomorrow, Hagee won't be found laying in his office, prostrate before God, blinded by an invisible light, deafened by an unheard sound.  If we are truly called in the spirit . .then why the stone throwing?

If I'm a spirit being, called to walk in the spirit and not in the flesh . .then I think these verses are not to be read and applied to "people" but to "me" saying that "in me" there is an ego that aproaches my mind as a wolf in sheeps clothing.  "In me" there is this justification of my identity being connected with my position or my works.  The sword isn't meant to be used on others . . .it's meant to be used "in me". 

See the difference?  That's all I'm trying to say here.  Let Hagee do his dance . . . as a priest and king, let's release truth on the man . .call it out . . .speak light over him and let the Holy Spirit make the changes in his thinking . .just as he did in ours.

I'm referring to the earlier post of Matthew here . . .forgot to tack that on.

Oh, by the way . . .this passage quoted earlier . . .
"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit."A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. "So then, you will know them by their fruits. "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness."  (Matt.7:15-23).

To me the emphasis here is these guys lost their identity.  It's become their ministries and works . . .rather than relationships.  The will of the Father is not that you idolize ministry.  Ministry works "within" relationships, but relationships should never be based on ministry.  These guys had it backwards.  It has nothing to do with whether Jesus was created or born, but I didn't bring it up. :happygrin:

Hi! Nathan

Let's be a bit more specific, brother, who are we talking about that's being judgmental. First and foremost what on earth has Hagee got to do with the topic "Can You Explain?" absolutely nothing as far as I can see, so why are we discussing him here, why not start a new topic on him that will suit your purpose better and not confuse this issue.

Peace!it.url=http://www.glitter-graphics.com](http://dl4.glitter-graphics.net/pub/1176/1176424t4nufen6go.gif)[/url]


Roy   UK

[Roy Monis]

So was the prodigal son and the son who stayed by the Fathers side saved the same way? 

Both were given the gift (gift of grace imo), one stayed faithful;

grace is only accessed by faith

the other squandered it (fell from grace) and was saved through fire. 

Hi! Laren

Saved by Fire that is chastisement, in short saved by grace.

Peace!it.url=http://www.glitter-graphics.com](http://dl4.glitter-graphics.net/pub/1176/1176424t4nufen6go.gif)[/url]

Roy   UK

[Molly]

"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

The wolves in sheep's clothing--I think the point here is that these people are not just deluded or mistaken--they are carnivores.  They have a purpose, like all wolves, to eat the sheep alive.

That's why Jesus is warning us about them.  They are, although disguised as sheep, extremely dangerous.