Why “Saved” as opposed to “Healed/Made Whole”?

Started by Merks, September 09, 2018, 04:26:12 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

jabcat

2 Cor. 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
The oldest known manuscripts agree with each other 99% of the time.  The scriptures, accurately translated, Spirit revealed - reliable.   Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

jabcat

Isaiah 55:11  "My word which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me void, without accomplishing what I desire, and without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it."
The oldest known manuscripts agree with each other 99% of the time.  The scriptures, accurately translated, Spirit revealed - reliable.   Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

MusicLover123

1Co 6:11  And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 

G628
ἀπολούω
apolouō
ap-ol-oo'-o
From G575 and G3068; to wash fully, that is, (figuratively) have remitted (reflexively): - wash (away).
Total KJV occurrences: 2

G575
ἀπό
apo
apo'
A primary particle; "off", that is, away (from something near), in various senses (of place, time, or relation; literally or figuratively): - (X here-) after, ago, at, because of, before, by (the space of), for (-th), from, in, (out) of, off, (up-) on (-ce), since, with. In composition (as a prefix) it usually denotes separation, departure, cessation, completion, reversal, etc.
Total KJV occurrences: 649

G3068
λούω
louō
loo'-o
A primary verb; to bathe (the whole person; whereas G3538 means to wet a part only, and G4150 to wash, cleanse garments exclusively): - wash.
Total KJV occurrences: 6

Other translations say "were" instead of are:
CLV 1Co 6:11 And some of you were these, but you are bathed off, but you are hallowed, but you were justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and by the spirit of our God.


YLT 2Co 5:17  so that if any one is in Christ— he is a new creature; the old things did pass away, lo, become new have the all things. 

Gal 2:20  I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 

CLV Gal 2:20 With Christ have I been crucified, yet I am living; no longer I, but living in me is Christ. Now that which I am now living in flesh, I am living in faith that is of the Son of God, Who loves me, and gives Himself up for me.

JM-NT Gal 2:20  I was crucified together with Christ, and thus it remains (or: I have been jointly put on the crucifixion stake in Christ, and continue thus), yet I continue living! [It is] no longer I, but it is Christ continuously living within ME! (or: No longer an "I" -- now Christ constantly lives within, and in union with, me). Now that which I, at the present moment, continue living within flesh, I am constantly living within faith by and in the Son of the God loving me and giving Himself over to another for the sake of me (or: even transmitting Himself, over me; also passing Himself along for me).

Joh 5:24  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 

G3327
μεταβαίνω
metabainō
met-ab-ah'ee-no
From G3326 and the base of G939; to change place: - depart, go, pass, remove.
Total KJV occurrences: 12

Col 1:13  Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 
Col 1:14  In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins

CLV Col 1:13 Who rescues us out of the jurisdiction of Darkness, and transports us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,
Col 1:14 in Whom we are having deliverance, the pardon of sins

Joh 3:36  He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. 

G3700
ὀπτάνομαι  /  ὄπτομαι
optanomai  /  optomai
Thayer Definition:
1) to look at, behold
2) to allow one's self to be seen, to appear
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: a (middle voice) prolonged form of the primary (middle voice) optomai, which is used for it in certain tenses, and both as alternate of G3708

Interesting, did you notice how those who believe the Son will not see death, and those who do not believe the Son will not see life?

1Jn_1:3  That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

Joh 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 
John 1
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

jabcat

The oldest known manuscripts agree with each other 99% of the time.  The scriptures, accurately translated, Spirit revealed - reliable.   Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

MusicLover123

Maybe/maybe not related:

Php 1:21  For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 
Php 1:22  But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. 
Php 1:23  For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: 
Php 1:24  Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you. 

G360
ἀναλύω
analuō
an-al-oo'-o
From G303 and G3089; to break up, that is, depart (literally or figuratively): - depart, return.
Total KJV occurrences: 2

G303
ἀνά
ana
an-ah'
A primary preposition and adverb; properly up; but (by extension) used (distributively) severally, or (locally) at (etc.): - and, apiece, by, each, every (man), in, through. In compounds (as a prefix) it often means (by implication) repetition, intensity, reversal, etc.
Total KJV occurrences: 15

G3089
λύω
luō
loo'-o
A primary verb; to "loosen" (literally or figuratively): - break (up), destroy, dissolve, (un-) loose, melt, put off. Compare G4486.
Total KJV occurrences: 43

Luk 19:33  And as they were loosing the colt, the owners thereof said unto them, Why loose ye the colt? 

Ecc 12:7  Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Found where some mentioned the "silver cord" too:

Ecc 12:6  Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. 
John 1
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Cardinal

 :cloud9: It's a lot easier to comprehend I think, if you look at the baptisms. We are baptized in water as a type of His death; it symbolizes being lowered into the grave. We are baptized into His life by being baptized  in the fire of the Holy Ghost, a type of His resurrection from the dead. Water cleanses, but fire purifies and sterilizes. The first is our spirit being saved, the second begins the work on our soul being saved. Word for saved also means deliverance and it is this baptism that begins our deliverance out of the things that have held us in bondage. This is the sanctification of the soul, and ultimately, should we make it to the end, the salvation of our body, where corruption is swallowed up of incorruption. My  :2c: Blessings...
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

MusicLover123

So, when would you say the end of our faith is, for the salvation of the soul?

I started a study on salvation recently, and just working on finding the saving of the 3 things in real detail. I do think, as you mentioned, that we have been saved, are being saved, and will be saved. It isn't a contradiction, if you know what is happening.
John 1
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Cardinal

 :cloud9: I think the end of our faith is unto the saving of the body, while still in the body. Paul spoke of 2 resurrections; one of the dead, and one of those that are not dead physically because they defeated every enemy including death, ie. mortality swallowed up of immortality. He said he didn't want to be unclothed (die literally) but clothed upon. I take this to mean the body being glorified. My  :2c: Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

jabcat

#83
Quote from: MusicLover123 on October 21, 2018, 09:53:38 PM
Maybe/maybe not related:

Php 1:21  For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
Php 1:22  But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
Php 1:23  For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
Php 1:24  Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.


I think it's very related.  I see Paul as saying he was torn between continuing in his present body (beneficial to his brethren, in this life/age) or physically dying and experiencing the next life of being in God's direct Personal presence (beneficial to himself).  Either remaining in the "tent" of flesh, or (not unclothed as "just" a spirit) but rather clothed in his new spiritual glorified body.    It sounds to me like he really preferred to go - "We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body [earthly body, (inserted)] and to be present with the Lord".  2 Corinthians 51-8   talks in detail about it (https://www.biblestudytools.com/nkjv/2-corinthians/5.html).              Paul does say the ultimate outcome of our salvation/redemption is the new body, immortality.  I understand that to mean after this current life/body has been put off and we're given immortal bodies in His presence.
The oldest known manuscripts agree with each other 99% of the time.  The scriptures, accurately translated, Spirit revealed - reliable.   Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

jugghead

#84
I myself believe that "the end of our faith" is seen in where the word "faith" is originally taken from, it is taken from the word that means "to convince"

so if we see "the end of our faith" ..... AS ..... "the end of our convincing" ... of which "that convincing" comes from HIS SPIRIT ... then the end of our convincing becomes "TO KNOW"

and also ... "faith" also includes "believing" ..... we need to believe what we are being convinced of by His Spirit

early in my walk, (after my experience but before I believed) I did not believe the possibility of "the salvation of all" ... what I became convinced of ... by/through His Spirit is that "all things are possible with God" and if all things are possible, then the salvation of all had to become a possibility of truth IN me (baptism of water).... and then by believing in that possibility ... He then proceeded to convince me "HOW" it is possible (baptism of fire)

of which .... all of this just explains the process that "all" will go through .... which is like what Cardinal said "a baptism" it is both a baptism of water and a baptism of fire

the baptism by water IN me was to believe the possibility ..... the baptism by fire was being CONVINCED of what I believed was possible

and being convinced BY HIS SPIRIT is "to know"

of which, this all goes back to merks original opening post of "saved" and "healed" in an understanding that our "ignorance" (our lack of understanding) is a darkness of the mind, in other words "a blindness" of the mind ..... that when we are "healed" from that blindness, we are being "saved" from our lack of understanding (our ignorance).

Being "healed" from blindness ..... IS ..... being "saved" from a lack of understanding

and the proof of this understanding is in Matthew 15 .... where Jesus compares the blindness of the Pharisees to the lack of understanding of the disciples

..... IN "all things" ..... the glory of the Lord is revealed, and I believe HIS GLORY "IS" His process of salvation and understanding "how" He is accomplishing it through what was accomplished at the cross

my  :2c:



Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

Justification Under God's Grace Having Every Answer Delivered

Cardinal

 :cloud9: Amen, yes, excellent..... :friendstu: Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

marie glen

#86
Amen! :iagree: And saved from a flawed character, or character which can be, and is, prone to being flawed in thinking and doing. Which wages of is death.. So once healed of flawed/carnal character, we are saved and healed of dying, and, or the 'sentence' of and the resulting death.. Which to me, means the carnal character is an incomplete character, being incomplete in it's knowledge of and union with God, who to me, is life (itself, and He "is perfect", so flawed to me, is the opposite of life, thus the healing :banana: is from suffering from a disease of imperfection/flawed, which prognosis is death. {So even if believers live on after death, as many believe, and God can do whatever He wants, lol, I cannot think that unsaved folks live again until resurrection to the judgment, as that would imply inherent immortality and "there is only one immortal" and all other life is in Jesus.
:Peace2:
"I will draw ALL to Me." [Jesus, Jn.12:32] Written in the pattern of the Holy Days? an image - https://inner-monastery.blogspot.com
Enter The Story Annual Reading Schedule ~ https://inner-monastery.blogspot.com/p/daily.html