SNIPPETS FROM THE HARD COPY UR LIBRARY OF RODGER TUTT

rodgertutt · May 29, 2018, 01:33:28 PM

OPPOSERS OF CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISM REFUTED

COMMON ARGUMENTS ADDRESSED
Good news of God's love for all mankind - find it here at Tentmaker
http://www.tentmaker.org/FAQ/index.html
and
Quick Find: Links to Information on Hell and Universal Salvation
http://www.tentmaker.org/bloglinks.htm

CONSEQUENCES OF ETERNAL TORMENT THEOLOGY
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/hells_fruit.html

BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html

THE SCHOLARS CORNER THE CENTER FOR BIBLE STUDIES IN CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISM
http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html

UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY
http://richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm

rodgertutt · May 31, 2018, 10:34:17 AM

rodgertutt · June 06, 2018, 01:45:11 PM

THE ORIGIN AND HISTORY OF THE DOCTRINE OF ENDLESS PUNISHMENT http://www.tentmaker.org/books/OriginandHistory.html

rodgertutt · June 14, 2018, 12:44:16 PM

OUR HEAVENLY FATHER

According to Jesus, by nature, we are children of the devil (John 8:44).
But over and above that are the words that Jesus spoke to the multitude.
"For One is your Father, Who is in heaven." (Matt. 23:1&9).

As sinners, by attitude and actions we demonstrate that we are children of the devil.
But by right of creation, and by right of redemption through Jesus Christ, God is the Heavenly Father of everyone, even Satan (Col. 1:20).

For Jesus is the propitiation for our sins, and not for our sins only, but for the sins of the whole kosmos (Greek). (1John 2:2)

Sooner or later, according to His perfect timing for each individual, God will effectively call everyone out of darkness into His marvelous light, first the chosen generation, then all the rest later. (1Peter 2:9; Col. 1:20)

A snippet from THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – LOYAL F. HURLEY

Heb. 11:3 should read, "Through faith we understand that the ages were planned by the Word of God." The ages will collectively end. A literal translation of Heb. 9:26 is, 'But now, once for all, with a view to the end of the ages, has He been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.'

Throughout the eons there is sin and evil, condemnation and death. At the end of the eons all will be justified (Rom. 5:18,19), and all will be reconciled through Christ's blood (Col. 1:20).

GOD'S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html

I believe that the reconciliation of Satan will be the greatest manifestation of God's grace in action among the celestials
http://www.godfire.net/eby/reconcilehvns.html

rodgertutt · June 15, 2018, 01:28:23 PM

PAUL

The apostle Paul's frustration was that, regretfully, he sometimes preferred sinning. The fact that he actually chose sinning demonstrated that, at least momentarily, he preferred it, or he would not have chosen it. It is what we actually do that demonstrates our true preference. We can say we don't prefer it, but our actions speak louder than words.

Sometimes Paul's sinful nature was the strongest influence in his life.
Romans 7:14-25 makes it plain that in no way was Paul's will "free."

But the Spirit of God taught Paul through experiences that in those times that "the sin that dwelt within him" (v20) preferred sinning; he could then reach out to Jesus for rescue. This God-taught attitude gradually, and no doubt reflexively, became the strongest influence on Paul's will in his war with his sinful nature.

rosered · June 15, 2018, 01:46:26 PM

Quote from: rodgertutt on June 15, 2018, 01:28:23 PM
PAUL

The apostle Paul's frustration was that, regretfully, he sometimes preferred sinning. The fact that he actually chose sinning demonstrated that, at least momentarily, he preferred it, or he would not have chosen it. It is what we actually do that demonstrates our true preference. We can say we don't prefer it, but our actions speak louder than words.

Sometimes Paul's sinful nature was the strongest influence in his life.
Romans 7:14-25 makes it plain that in no way was Paul's will "free."

But the Spirit of God taught Paul through experiences that in those times that "the sin that dwelt within him" (v20) preferred sinning; he could then reach out to Jesus for rescue. This God-taught attitude gradually, and no doubt reflexively, became the strongest influence on Paul's will in his war with his sinful nature.

Amen !!!! God let us know that we are all struggling just as Paul described , making us not feel like a castaway !

the whole creation was subject to vanity/futility not willingly , our sinful nature is just that uselessness, pointless , ineffectiveness!! No One striving against GOD can do it for long or well ha ! lol Point taken !

Romans 8 Future Glory

...19The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God.

20For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope

21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

:dsunny: :HeartThrob:

rodgertutt · June 16, 2018, 01:34:29 PM

"What About how the Bible says that those who do not believe will perish or be destroyed?"
http://www.tentmaker.org/FAQ/perish.htm

Kenneth Larsen and James Coram
"Everlasting destruction" would mean that they cease to exist. However, that terminology wasn't used by any of the prophets. I didn't make up universal reconciliation. It has strong Bible support.

Where is a resurrection from the lake of fire taught in the scriptures?
The lake of fire is distinctly defined as the second death (Rev.20:14; 21:8). In it is cast all that is still at enmity with God. So that, death is indeed the last enemy (1 Cor.15:26).
And we are just as decidedly told that Christ is the one who abolishes death and brings life and incorruptibility to light (2 Tim.1:10). The reading "hath abolished" is not true as to fact or as to grammar. It is in the indefinite form (commonly called the aorist tense) simply recording the fact apart from time. Death has not been abolished yet.
How and when it will be abolished is told us in the fifteenth of first Corinthians. It is to be abolished by means of universal vivification (1 Cor.15:22). This takes place at the consummation (1 Cor.15:26).
It is useless to look for plain statements on this subject in parts of the Scriptures whose scope is limited to eonian truth, such as the Revelation. It is unwise to look for it anywhere but in the special portion which deals with this topic. Death and resurrection are exhaustively treated in the fifteen chapter of first Corinthians and there it is we should look for clear statements as to the ultimate goal. There we are distinctly told that the last enemy that shall be abolished is death (which must refer to the lake of fire, for the first death cannot be the last enemy). And there we are told that it is to be done by a universal vivification rather than resurrection.
The term "resurrection" is applied to those who have afterward died again, such as those who suffer the second death. Hence there is not a resurrection, merely, from the lake of fire, but a vivification beyond which there can be no death.
It is also apparent from Col. 1:15-20and many other texts that the lake of fire is not the end of God's plan for those cast into the fire.

rodgertutt · June 24, 2018, 12:01:09 PM

Questions
In order to have a consistent, logical Biblical worldview, some questions about the Final Destiny of people must be answered. The Bible, to be credible, must be able to be logically explained. This is self-evident. As centuries have passed, ideas that were Orthodox, but unbiblical, have fallen away. Sometimes en masse, as during the Reformation. Sometimes more slowly, as with the gradual abolition of slavery, which was led and championed primarily by Christians.
Here are a few questions about the common Orthodoxy of Eternal Damnation. Unless these can be honestly answered, without rhetorical trickery, the Orthodox is just an unorthodox as Relics and paying for release of dead relatives from Purgatory was during the majority of Christian history.
• If some people will end up in eternal torment, is God unable or unwilling to save them? Logically, it must be one or the other. No tricky appeal to free-will can alleviate the tension of the question.
• If we determine our destiny by our free will, then is not our will stronger than God's will? How do we deal with passages as in Romans 9 that says we cannot resist His will?
• If some people will be tortured eternally, which is apparently the will of Satan, how is Satan a defeated foe? Doesn't eternal torment make Satan a partial victor?
• How can there be "no more tears" if some people will be tormented forever?
• How can we say that "His mercy endures forever!" if His mercy for us, in the most practical and real terms, ends if we do not choose to follow Christ before we die?
• Given the Bible's revealed standards of righteous and justice (which are clear and not myterious at all), how is unending punishment just reward for temporary sin? Again, the Bible is clear on standards so saying "God's ways are not our ways" or "It's a mystery with God" is only an avoidance of a hard question. The question must be Biblically answered with justification from Scripture.
• If God "gives up" on those who do not choose Jesus before death, how does the parable of the 100 Sheep, with 99 found and the master leaving the 99 to find the one lost one, make any sense?
• Why does God give up on people after death?
• If eternal Hell is the price for disobeying God and living in Sin, why did God hide that from Adam and Eve and promise a different penalty? Why did God hide the most horrific fate possible, torture in Hell forever, from mankind for entire Old Testament period (probably 4,000 years)?
• How does the idea of Col 1:15-20 "restore All Things" (Ta Panta - The universal All in Greek) make any sense if some things are permanently and irrevocably isolated from and unrestored to God forever?
• Why must an omnipotent, omniscient God, who describes Himself as "Love", settle for not having everything that has ever been made love and worship Him? Why must He settle for a divided creation in which some live in abundant joy and others live in mind-numbing torture? Is God really that weak or does He want that kind of reality?
• Why do we think that our "will" is so absolutely free, when it is affected by every little around us and we rarely respond from thought alone, but often from instinct built in us from birth?
• How can God be "All in All" as Revelation states He will be in the end if All is not in complete harmony with Him and His character of love, joy, peace, etc.?\
• Why did God create a place of unending torture in the first place?
• How is God glorified in unending pain that does not lead to being restored to righteousness and loving relationship to Christ?
These, and many more questions, must be answered scripturally and logically if the idea of an Eternal Torture is to be even considered as a Biblical possibility

rosered · June 24, 2018, 05:07:57 PM

:HeartThrob:

rodgertutt · June 25, 2018, 10:43:58 AM

RAY PRINZING TAPES

RAY PRINZING IS MY EARTHLY HERO AND MENTOR

GOOGLE UP RAY PRINZING TO READ SOME REALLY GOOD WRITINGS

During my twelve year nervous breakdown caused by my inability to love a god who would allow anyone to suffer forever, I would listen to a Ray Prinzing tape while I washed the dishes of my family every day and before going to sleep at night. Through the years that I repeatedly listened to these tapes I became more and more confident that that I was going to recover from my breakdown.

In the opinion of Rodger Tutt of Toronto, Canada, the following are the best of all of Ray Prinzing's taped sermons.

6 CHRIST OUR MERCY SEAT
8 NO SUBSTITUTE
9 TRUST
16 SEE NO EVIL
29 THEREFORE CHOOSE LIFE
30 GOD'S WONDERFUL VENGEANCE
32 SUFFICIENT THE EVIL
35 CHANGING THY STRENGTH
36 AS KINGS AND PRIESTS
38 REVELATION TO REVELATION
42 THE TREE OF LIFE
48 KEPT IN PEACE
51 GOD'S RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENTS
55 ALLEGORY OF RACHEL
56 NONE SHALL BE LOST
59 REPENTANCE TOWARDS GOD
61 AND GOD REPENTED
63 THE END OF THE LORD
71 URGED ON BY FAITH
76 MINISTRY OF SALT
89 BLESSINGS REWARDED OR INHERITED
90 NO CONDEMNATION
95 NOT SOMEHOW BUT TRIUMPHANTLY
101 PASSING THROUGH
104 THE INTERPLAY OF GOOD AND EVIL
105 THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD
109 PLENTEOUS REDEMPTION
111 OF THE SAME LUMP
119 HELD TOGETHER BY LOVE
121 ESTABLISH THE SECOND
122 ESTABLISH THE SECOND, PART TWO
123 ESTABLISH THE SECOND, PART THREE
128 ADVANCE IN ADVERSITY
131 ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT
133 AFTER THE PRESSURES
134 THE POLISHED SHAFT
135 INTERNAL TRIUMPH
136 RECONCILED INTO HIMSELF
138 AT PEACE WITH YOUR CALLING
142 THE HIDDEN ONES
143 GOD'S GENTLENESS TO MAN
147 BEYOND DISCIPLINE
148 BEHOLDING HIM
149 DELIVERANCE
150 ENTER THY CHAMBERS
151 GOD OF THE VALLEY
152 GOD OF THE MOUNTAINS
153 IN QUIETNESS
154 IN CONFIDENCE
158 RENEWED INTO HIS MIND
160 EAT THE BOOK
161 HOLD FAST TO THE HEAD
162 THE SEVENTH MAN
164 SORROW TURNED INTO JOY
165 MAKE READY A PEOPLE
166 DESIRE OF ALL NATIONS
167 THE BIRTHRIGHT CHALLENGE
168 MY FATHER IS GREATER
169 HIS PARTICIPATING PRESENCE
170 CHANGES, TYRANNY OR BLESSING
171 TILL HE PLEASE
172 IN HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
173 KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL
174 THE SWORD GUARDED WAY
175 THE HEAVENLY VISION
176 DEFEATING THE ACCUSERS
177 NEITHER TOIL NOR SPIN
178 THE LAW OF CIRCULARITY
180 HE THAT SHALL ENDURE
181 LIFT UP A STANDARD
183 MUCH MORE
186 WHEN GOD HIDES HIS FACE
187 FAITH VICTORIOUS
188 DIVINE CONFIRMATION
189 WAIT FOR WISDOM'S CHILDREN
190 GOD CHOSE OUR FATHERS
192 LIVED HAPPILY EVER AFTER
194 EARTHEN VESSEL SINKS
196 A VERY PRESENT HELP
197 A NEW COAT, YEAR BY YEAR
198 COME UP HITHER
199 UNDER HIS SHADOW
200 A HUSHED SECRET
201 EXPECTATION OF RIGHTEOUSNESS
202 RETURNING INTO GOD
203 PUT A DIFFERENCE
204 FROM EAST TO WEST
206 TIME OF YOUR SOJOURNING
207 HIS HAND IS STRETCHED OUT
208 WHAT SHALL I DO?
209 TURN AWAY UNGODLINESS
210 GIVE DILIGENCE
211 LIVING EPISTLES
215 THE LORD THY REARWARD
216 THE ANGER OF THE LORD
217 GOD APPOINTED HORIZONS
218 HOLD FAST TILL I COME
219 ACTIVELY RESTING
221 AN INNER REJOICING
222 BLESS ME INDEED
224 NO MORE ECCENTRIC
225 NOT A SPIRIT OF FEAR
226 FORGET NOT ALL HIS BENEFITS
227 AND SUDDENLY
228 THE HEAVENLY HOST ATTENDS
229 FIT FOR THE KINGDOM
230 JUDGEMENT UNTO VICTORY
231 GOD IS IN CONTROL
232 THE LORD OUR HELPER
233 OUR THREEFOLD JUDGEMENT
235 GOD COUNTED THE COST
236 THY LIFE FOR A PREY
237 THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS
238 FROM POVERTY TO RICHES
239 ABIDING IN GOD
240 PARTS OF HIS WAYS
241 CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST
242 MASTER OF MYSELF
243 ANOINTED EYE SIGHT
244 FAITH THAT OBTAINS
246 THE FURNACE FOR GOLD
247 RAISE UP THE FOUNDATION
248 SHALL PROSPER IN HIS HAND
250 INWARD REVELATION OF THE SON
251 KINGDOM LIFE TRANSFORMING
252 SO GROWS THE KINGDOM
253 AFTER YE HAVE SUFFERED
254 CHOSEN TO KNOW HIS WILL
255 HEALING THE BREACHES
256 OUR THREEFOLD RESURRECTION
257 A THORN FOR THE FLESH
258 THE MINISTRY OF WAITING
259 THERE IS A RIVER
267 HEARING, LEARNING, COMING
268 THE LORD ALWAYS BEFORE ME
269 HIS NAME SHALL BE CALLED
270 GOLD IN THE MAKING
271 MAKE TO LACK, READY TO FILL
273 ACQUAINTED WITH THE ALMIGHTY
274 EACH IN HIS OWN RANK
278 GOD'S UNFINISHED WORK
280 FULLY PERSUADED
285 CONTINUALLY WITH HIM
286 SURRENDERED TO HIS LORDSHIP
295 TO RECONCILE ALL THINGS
296 INIQUITY SHALL HAVE AN END
297 OVERFLOW WITH RIGHTEOUSNESS
298 THINGS BELONGING TO PEACE
301 HIS DESIRE IS TOWARD ME
302 REFINED AS SILVER
303 AND GOD REMEMBERED
304 LOOSE THE PRISONER
305 ASPECTS OF SPIRITUAL LIFE
306 GOD'S INDWELLING CONTROL
307 OUT OF HIM WE CAME
308 GRACE UPON GRACE
309 JUDGEMENT RESTS FOR A LIGHT
310 HIS MERCY ENDURETH FOREVER
312 THE SURE MERCIES OF DAVID
315 THE DEVIL DESTROYED
316 TOTAL AVAILABILITY
317 VIEWING THE THIRD DAY
326 KINGDOM AUTHORITY

THE BEST OF THE BEST OF THE RAY PRINZING TAPES

GOOGLE UP RAY PRINZING TO READ SOME REALLY GREAT WRITINGS

Ray Prinzing's very best, and his two extra good tapes.

30 GOD'S WONDERFUL VENGEANCE
101 PASSING THROUGH
104 THE INTERPLAY OF GOOD AND EVIL
109 PLENTEOUS REDEMPTION
123 ESTABLISH THE SECOND, PART THREE
138 AT PEACE WITH YOUR CALLING
215 THE LORD THY REARWARD
216 THE ANGER OF THE LORD
217 GOD APPOINTED HORIZONS
226 FORGET NOT ALL HIS BENEFITS
230 JUDGEMENT UNTO VICTORY
232 THE LORD OUR HELPER
235 GOD COUNTED THE COST (extra good)
236 THY LIFE FOR A PREY
237 THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS
248 SHALL PROSPER IN HIS HAND
255 HEALING THE BREACHES
295 TO RECONCILE ALL THINGS
315 THE DEVIL DESTROYED
339 GOD SO LOVED HE GAVE
352 BUT GOD MUCH MORE
385 FREEDOM OF THE GLORY
387 ESTABLISHED BY GRACE (extra good)

Batty Bible Page · June 26, 2018, 04:59:15 AM

Isn't it always amazing to find Christians that argue God sends people to Hell? Thinking of course they're certainly bound for Heaven.

I watched this Philadelphia pastor on his church TV broadcast a year or so ago. Pastor Gino Jennings. He preached prior that if someones pastor or bishop taught something that sounded wrong to confront them. Ask them , where is that in the Bible?

He should not have said that. This particular broadcast he's there with his Bible reader William, as usual. William will read the scripture that supports Jennings teaching. He was stone silent when Gino said, God said he made Hell to get even with man!

God says to love our enemies. But he, being omniscient and all things happening by his will and for his glory sends enemies to Hell to burn for eternity?

Try to tell the most fundamental believers the real history of Hell. You suddenly are charged as a heretic. I wonder if those ones were alive when church and state united burned, guillotined, and hanged people for that very charge?

To think Hell advocates are saying the good news of Christ is, he loves you! You must love him back or he'll burn you in a pit forever. :doh:

rosered · June 26, 2018, 12:00:54 PM

Quote from: Batty Bible Page on June 26, 2018, 04:59:15 AM
Isn't it always amazing to find Christians that argue God sends people to Hell? Thinking of course they're certainly bound for Heaven.

I watched this Philadelphia pastor on his church TV broadcast a year or so ago. Pastor Gino Jennings. He preached prior that if someones pastor or bishop taught something that sounded wrong to confront them. Ask them , where is that in the Bible?

He should not have said that. This particular broadcast he's there with his Bible reader William, as usual. William will read the scripture that supports Jennings teaching. He was stone silent when Gino said, God said he made Hell to get even with man!

God says to love our enemies. But he, being omniscient and all things happening by his will and for his glory sends enemies to Hell to burn for eternity?

Try to tell the most fundamental believers the real history of Hell. You suddenly are charged as a heretic. I wonder if those ones were alive when church and state united burned, guillotined, and hanged people for that very charge?

To think Hell advocates are saying the good news of Christ is, he loves you! You must love him back or he'll burn you in a pit forever. :doh:

I do not think most can even begin to know the LOVE OF GOD without being changed to receive the things of God till the born again from above experience happens as an awaking /birthing ,until than is just being formed in us [ like a baby is hid in the womb ] ,Holy Spirit & fire changing us ,so is our mind is being purified / pure virgin like to receive the seed / Word that does know the Love of God though Jesus Christ / Word of God by the power of the Holy Spirit both are witnesses to the TRUTH that sets us free from the bondage of sin and slavery to carnalness resulting in dead works of vanity ..

It is as a beast before the Lord Psalms 73

Take any man reading the bible with his carnal mind and soon becomes a dangerous creature .
It is a true misuse of power .. :sigh:

The only way the Holy Bible will reveal the TRUTH is with the Holy Spirit anointing , this is with the same mind of Christ/or anointing

The carnal mind is an enemy against the Spirit and we know the book is spiritual , God is Spirit and so we have those in the flesh that cannot please God being enemies , because they have not been born of faith , just a natural instinct to rule as a god /beast they want to Be God , not be God like in nature .

Romans 8
Just some more thoughts about it .. :2c:

rodgertutt · June 26, 2018, 12:07:04 PM

Everyone has an "opinion," including Ray Prinzing (my earthly hero and mentor).

I'm just so glad that I discovered his "opinion" that enabled me to recover from a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78, I'm 79 now) caused by my inability to love or trust a god who would let anyone suffer forever or annihilate them. During that period of time I had continual panic attacks both night and day.

During my breakdown, every morning, as I washed my family's dishes and before I went to sleep at night, I would listen to one of Ray Prinzing's many tapes.

I have listened to 178 of them twice, and 23 of them several times.

In addition to these tapes, I always read every issue of his periodical GOSPEL ECHOES which he later renamed LETTERS OF TRUTH (because someone else had the copyright on GOSPEL ECHOES) and I gleaned many pages of his writings into my personal journal.

Many people have an earthly hero, someone in their life that made a contribution to their welfare so significant that it is far above the influence that anyone else has had.
Ray Prinzing is that earthly hero to me.

For several years my 104 year old dad called me from his nursing home each evening. Each time he called I read a portion of my over four thousand page journal to him, and many of these readings are the gleanings that I wrote from Ray Prinzing's writings and tapes. Many nights my dad fell asleep listening to one of Ray's tapes.

As I listened to Ray's tapes I gradually became more and more sure that I was going to recover. The contents of his tapes gave me the courage, in 1978, to take a public stand that I believe that the Bible teaches universal transformation, not endless suffering in hell, or even annihilation.

Now I spend most of my time offering people, in various ways, the information that helped me recover and helps me stayed recovered, and I am pleased to report that the info I share is helping other people in the same way that it helped me.

All of Ray Prinzing's writings can be accessed by typing his name into Google. There are several pages of Google links about him.

The theme of universal salvation is prominent in all of Ray's writings, but his book
REDEMPTION ALL IN ALL is especially good

Ray Prinzing has now passed on, but he will not likely be forgotten on this earth for many years, if ever. And that is a very good thing!

rosered · June 26, 2018, 12:18:05 PM

I love it that the Lord sends us , ministering angels with the good news of the gospel out of their mouths comes waters of life freely , spreading the truth in LOVE :HeartThrob:

God bless you Rodger , with your much sharing the good news of the gospel over the years ....

marie glen · June 27, 2018, 01:42:08 AM

Amen! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Batty Bible Page · June 27, 2018, 01:53:13 AM

Quote from: rosered on June 26, 2018, 12:00:54 PM
Quote from: Batty Bible Page on June 26, 2018, 04:59:15 AM
Isn't it always amazing to find Christians that argue God sends people to Hell? Thinking of course they're certainly bound for Heaven.

I watched this Philadelphia pastor on his church TV broadcast a year or so ago. Pastor Gino Jennings. He preached prior that if someones pastor or bishop taught something that sounded wrong to confront them. Ask them , where is that in the Bible?

He should not have said that. This particular broadcast he's there with his Bible reader William, as usual. William will read the scripture that supports Jennings teaching. He was stone silent when Gino said, God said he made Hell to get even with man!

God says to love our enemies. But he, being omniscient and all things happening by his will and for his glory sends enemies to Hell to burn for eternity?

Try to tell the most fundamental believers the real history of Hell. You suddenly are charged as a heretic. I wonder if those ones were alive when church and state united burned, guillotined, and hanged people for that very charge?

To think Hell advocates are saying the good news of Christ is, he loves you! You must love him back or he'll burn you in a pit forever. :doh:

I do not think most can even begin to know the LOVE OF GOD without being changed to receive the things of God till the born again from above experience happens as an awaking /birthing ,until than is just being formed in us [ like a baby is hid in the womb ] ,Holy Spirit & fire changing us ,so is our mind is being purified / pure virgin like to receive the seed / Word that does know the Love of God though Jesus Christ / Word of God by the power of the Holy Spirit both are witnesses to the TRUTH that sets us free from the bondage of sin and slavery to carnalness resulting in dead works of vanity ..

It is as a beast before the Lord Psalms 73

Take any man reading the bible with his carnal mind and soon becomes a dangerous creature .
It is a true misuse of power .. :sigh:

The only way the Holy Bible will reveal the TRUTH is with the Holy Spirit anointing , this is with the same mind of Christ/or anointing

The carnal mind is an enemy against the Spirit and we know the book is spiritual , God is Spirit and so we have those in the flesh that cannot please God being enemies , because they have not been born of faith , just a natural instinct to rule as a god /beast they want to Be God , not be God like in nature .

Romans 8
Just some more thoughts about it .. :2c:

When I have time I lurk at Christian community discussion boards to see what the current hot topic is. Inevitably there is this type topic. Then there's the other certain to be found. Women aren't called to preach. Word it as you like that is the pronouncement.

Think about why such carnal thoughts in that topic area and this current one arise. The passage that tells us certain Disciples went out from the number who followed Christ because they weren't one with him. The Word didn't reach their mind as intended.

Now think about how those who are that today and on forums opining that it is not in dispute! The damned roast for eternity are ignorant of how that conflicts with God telling us to love our enemies.
Love our enemies! But God roasts his for eternity?
But you'll find people who insist, yes! And when asked that question they'll paste together all manner of scripture out of context. In order to interpolate their point being right in God's eyes. That's blaspheming the holy spirit. But they'll never be persuaded to know that is true.

Same with those who insist women aren't called to preach.

It is ego-centrism. Think of the power someone assumes when they take on the role of insisting God thinks as they do. Especially if they're doing that from the pulpit.

Their Jesus is that which affirms, love me! Or I'll burn you.

Truly unbelievable.

rodgertutt · June 27, 2018, 12:49:18 PM

RAYMOND VAN DYKE
Mr. Ray A. Van Dyke, compiled a comparison between the revelation given in Revelation and that given to Paul, as recorded in 1 Cor. 15:22-28. His comments are reproduced here:
"In the book of Revelation we do not have the final plan of God. Paul, in 1 Cor. 15:22-28 takes us much further into the future than does the book of Revelation. To illustrate this more clearly, study the following: 1 Cor. 15:22-28 as compared with the new heaven and new earth of Revelation 20:21-22:
In 1 Cor. 15:22-28, we have:
• No more rule
• No more authority
• No more power
• No more enemies
• No more reigning
• All subjected
• No more death, death destroyed.
• All made alive, immortal

In Revelation 20:21-22, we have:
• Still rule (20:6; 22:5)
• Son still reigns (22:1-5; 11:5)
• Authority (21:24,25)
• Power (21:24,25; 22:2
• Kings (21:24-26)
• Saints reign (22:5)
• Second death still exists (21:5)
• The nations still mortal (22:2)
-end quote
Christians who believe in universal reconciliation believe that the Bible is God's Word, and His Word cannot contradict itself, hence the inspired sacred Scriptures say in Rev. 11:15; 22:5, eis tous aionas ton aionon, "for the eons of the eons." Thus, Christ our Lord "reigns for the eons of the eons," not as the king's translators rendered, "forever and ever." Therefore, Revelation 20:21, 22 fits into the framework of the eons, and is truth relative to the eons. First Corinthians Chapter 15 fits at the consummation (end) of the eons. We give the second Adam, Christ, as much credit and numerical ability as the first Adam, and use 1 Cor. 15:22-28 also for this truth. (Read Rom. 5:18-19.)
http://lovewins.us/388/an-analytical-study-of-words/

rosered · June 27, 2018, 01:22:35 PM

I agree Batty Bible page :iagree: :dsunny: :HeartThrob: Come Lord come ...

Truly unbelievable. :sigh: I believe you are right about that , LOVE your enemies because those still captive with the death mindset are still enemies of the cross of CHRIST , HE holds death captive in HIMSELF / LIFE and is now the LORD OF THE DEAD AND LIVING , ALL BELONG TO HIM!
BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD THAT TAKES AWAY THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD ....

Romans 14 The Law of Liberty
...8If we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord.

So whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

9For this reason Christ died and returned to life, so that He might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

10Why, then, do you judge your brother? Or why do you belittle your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat....
Their wisdom will not give life to the dead ,as they are also dead in their thinking ! and is still an enemy to the Spirit of Life ...
Amen bro Rodger !! :HeartThrob:

jugghead · June 27, 2018, 06:51:27 PM

Quote from: rosered on June 27, 2018, 01:22:35 PM

9For this reason Christ died and returned to life, so that He might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Amen Rose, this one was brought to the number one position on my list, not making others less important, but making it "just as" important

Blessings to all

rosered · June 27, 2018, 07:34:22 PM

Quote from: jugghead on June 27, 2018, 06:51:27 PM
Quote from: rosered on June 27, 2018, 01:22:35 PM

9For this reason Christ died and returned to life, so that He might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Amen Rose, this one was brought to the number one position on my list, not making others less important, but making it "just as" important

Blessings to all

Amen Jugg , :iagree:

Romans has come to Life in these few days !! jumping for joy :banana:
God Works In All Things !!!!!
(Ephesians 1:3-14)

28And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him,

who are called according to His purpose.

29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son,

so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.

30And those He predestined He also called, those He called He also justified, those He justified He also glorified.

31What then shall we say in response to these things?

If God is for us, who can be against us?

32He who did not spare His own Son but gave Him up for us all, how will He not also, along with Him, freely give us all things?

33Who will bring any charge against God's elect?

It is God who justifies.

34 Who is there to condemn us?

For Christ Jesus, who died, and more than that was raised to life,

is at the right hand of God—and He is interceding for us.

(Psalm 44:1-26)

35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written:

"For Your sake we face death all day long;

we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."

37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.

38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,

39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

All will be awaked to know this !! Many try to limit God and say , But you had your chance while you were mortal !

But it is GODS WORD WHOM JUSTIFIES , not mankind's words !

To know God is to Love Him and all will Love Him because , all will Know Him in the end !!! I believe !! :HeartThrob:

rodgertutt · June 28, 2018, 10:30:34 AM

REQUIRED READING

IMO the following should be required reading for all Bible school students.
WHAT MOST OF THE EARLY CHRISTIANS BELIEVED
And they were reading the Bible in its original language!

Universalism:
The Prevailing Doctrine Of the Christian Church During Its First Five-Hundred Years
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Prevailing.html
And they were reading the Bible in its original language!

QUOTES FROM CHURCH FATHERS
http://www.tentmaker.org/Quotes/churchfathersquotes.htm

Tracing Universalist Thought Through Church History
http://www.tentmaker.org/tracts/Universalists.html

THE ORIGIN AND HISTORY OF THE DOCTRINE OF ENDLESS PUNISHMENT
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/OriginandHistory.html

rodgertutt · July 05, 2018, 12:04:08 PM

Does Scripture Teach Universal Salvation? - Yes it does
http://richardwaynegarganta.com/Understanding%20Universal%20Salvation%20Part%20One.htm

rodgertutt · July 08, 2018, 11:29:22 AM

RICH MAN AND LAZARUS

And without a parable spake not Jesus unto the multitude Matt 13:34

https://www.godfire.net/eby/abrahams.html

rodgertutt · July 22, 2018, 12:31:10 PM

RICHARD CONDON
QUESTIONS WITHOUT ANSWERS
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/QuestionsWithoutAnswers.html

From the introduction
"To those holding a limited view of God's plan of salvation, they are truly Questions Without Answers, but, to those who rely on God's Word, the answers become apparent as His truth is revealed to them."

An important follow-up! - by Richard Condon
A REFUTATION AND A RESPONSE
http://www.tentmaker.org/contending.htm

rodgertutt · July 29, 2018, 11:49:41 AM

Infant Salvation
Believers in eternal torment are divided in their opinion about the fate of infants who die.
Some, who believe in God's sovereign election of the "few", also believe that non-elect babies who die will spend eternity suffering in hell. I have heard that John Calvin said, "There are babies a span long in hell".
Others consider this unfair, and assert that infants who die will spend eternity in heavenly bliss. This of course is true, but not because the child is innocent. It's true because the Scriptures teach that God intends to save everyone from everything that they need to be saved from.
A few years ago there was a story in a Montreal paper about an Ohio lady who drowned her baby in the bathtub. Her defense was that she loved the baby so much that she wanted to make sure that her child would not have to suffer forever in hell. After serving a sentence she remarried, had another child and drowned it for the same reason. She trusted that God would forgive her because her intention, though warped by false theology, was for the good of her children.
The jury decided that she was mentally ill, BUT WAS SHE? The simple pragmatic fact remains that if evangelicals are right, her two infants will spend eternity in heavenly bliss because she loved them so much that she insured, by killing them, that this will be so.
Apparently, believers in eternal torment believe that there is a magical split-second in time before which a child, if they die, will go to heaven, and after which, if they die will spend eternity suffering in hell. They call this "the age of accountability".
If I believed this nonsense I might take a gun into the largest maternity ward in Toronto and before the police arrived, kill every infant who had just been born. This would cause an enormous amount of suffering to the parents, but this wouldn't matter much in the long run, because probably most of them (according to evangelical theology) are destined to suffer forever in hell anyway, so why not save their babies from the same fate?
Don't try to argue that what I would be doing would be wrong *(Thou Shalt Not Kill). The fact remains that my act would, in fact insure the babies' eternal salvation. If evangelicals right, then infanticide would certainly be one of the most effective ways of "saving souls". Besides, God forgives murder, especially when it is done for such a noble, though misguided cause.
Sure, they would lock me away in an institution, but I would spend my life reveling in the glow of the emotional high of knowing that I had, beyond any shadow of a doubt (even in the mind of evangelicals) guaranteed the salvation of the babies that I had killed.
Folks, the actual truth about the matter is much more sane and blessed. The Scriptures teach that salvation is all of the Lord, and He will not fail to save everyone of us according to His own timing. No one will be able to boast in His presence and say "I have saved my self from eternal hell by exercising my faith in God's provision." God will get all of the glory for everyone's salvation.
The important issue never should be "what is right or what is wrong". The only really important issue is, "What is God going to do with the person who is wrong? !" The Scriptures teach that God will fit every one of us into His master-plan in a positive way, and He will use our temporary involvement with sin to teach us the lessons that He wants us to learn. As my 104 year old Dad often said, "That's what makes Him God!"
(Afterthought) - If abortionists are, for all practical purposes, among the most effective "soul-savers" in the world, why do evangelicals get so upset with them?!
* Believers in eternal torment kill each other in war for less worthy causes!

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