SNIPPETS FROM THE HARD COPY UR LIBRARY OF RODGER TUTT

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: yes, they are, thank you  :HeartThrob: Blessings...

[rodgertutt]

SOONER OR LATER
WORDS TO INSPIRE THE SOUL

Sooner or later, because of what Christ accomplished by His death and resurrection, He is going to save everyone from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will.
A will in bondage to an enslaved mind is only "free" to choose what they prefer which is summed up in Romans 3:10-18. Until God intervenes and causes Jesus to be choice in their heart like He did for Saul of Tarsus, the sinner will always choose their own way rather than God's way unless they happen to coincide.

Gerry Beauchemin wrote
"Tradition has taught that God will not save a person against their will. I agree. However He has the power to orchestrate whatever circumstances are necessary to effect one's will to change.

Once a full revelation of God is received in the ages to come (Eph. 2:7), men will bow and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord just as Isaiah and Paul prophesied (Is. 45:21-25; Rom. 4:11; Ph. 2:9-11). Who would want to continue in active and persistent rebellion knowing God only wants what is best for them? Knowing the great goodness and love of God, along with the Holy Spirit working in their hearts, these hardened hearts must melt before His glorious being.

It is impossible that an omnipotent God can fail in His purpose so that some would forever resist unconditional love opting for everlasting pain. This would be totally irrational. And even if one were that irrational, such resistance would not arise out of a 'free' will, but an 'enslaved' will, a will in bondage to an enslaved mind."
GERRY BEAUCHEMIN

Here is a helpful article on the subject.
MAN IS NOT A FREE MORAL AGENT
http://www.godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html

In the conclusion of THE BONDAGE OF THE WILL, Martin Luther wrote
"There can be no "Free-will"—in man,—in angel,—or in any creature!"
http://www.truecovenanter.com/trueluthe ... .html#conc

"God is now conciliated to all mankind (II Corinthians 5:19). This
blessing has come to us through the blood of Christ's cross
(Colossians 1:20). God no longer holds men's offenses against them (II
Corinthians 5:19). This same blood will reconcile all to Himself, both
that in the heavens and that on earth (Colossians 1:20).
The cross saves everyone, but not all at once (I Corinthians
15:22-23). Jesus Christ is a ransom for all, but the testimony of it
will not be seen until the eras designated to show it (I Timothy 2:6).
God will one day be all and in all (I Corinthians 15:28). How can He
be that if billions of the all remain dead or tortured?
Paul speaks of a time called the consummation, when death is to be
abolished (I Corinthians 15:26; II Timothy 1:10). If there will one
day be no more death, then the time is coming when even the second
death will cease to be. At this time, those formerly captured by it
will be delivered into the life won for them by Christ on the cross.
With no more death, nothing remains but life. Some come to Christ
sooner, some come later. But eventually, all come."
Martin Zender

[rodgertutt]

Man's [Free] Will vs. God's Will
Stuart Pouliot

"Man is helpless in his sin, so why do we make man a hero in his own salvation, as if he can save himself by exercising his so-called free will ? God the Creator alone is responsible for His creation, and He has taken on the full responsibility to save all mankind through His Son. We need to be continually reminded that it is God's will that is being worked out in the ages, not man's will, and that God will accomplish all that He wills through His Son. In Christ all will be made alive! All things come forth through God.

There is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. (1 Corinthians 8:6 NASB)

We need to stop holding to a small, impotent god created in our own image and embrace the God of All who will be All in all new. Further, we need to stop boasting in ourselves or encouraging others to boast in themselves when it comes to our so-called salvation. Perhaps, just perhaps, if we moved off of this ground, we would begin to praise God for His glorious plan to save all mankind, eventually . Just imagine the power of the gospel that would go forth based on the pure love of God and not on some fear of a fictitious pagan place called hell."
http://kingdomandglory.com/art/art56.html

THE ORIGIN AND HISTORY OF THE DOCTRINE OF ENDLESS PUNISHMENT http://www.tentmaker.org/books/OriginandHistory.html

[rodgertutt]

THE BLACKEST OF ALL BACKGROUNDS

As some of you know, I, Rodger Tutt, had a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78, I'm 77 now) over my inability to successfully emotionally cope with the idea that God would let anyone suffer forever.

By listening to many audio tapes by Ray Prinzing (my hero and mentor) over that period of time, I was able to gradually recover. All of Ray Prinzing's writings can be accessed by typing his name into Google. There are several Google pages of links about him.

Millions of Muslims believe that non Muslims are going to suffer forever in hell.
Quote from
Islamic Beliefs about the Afterlife
"Being a Muslim does not keep one out of Hell, but non-Muslims (kafir), however, will be punished eternally."
http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/beliefs/afterlife.htm

And, as most people already know, millions of Christians believe that non-Christians are going to suffer forever in hell.

The way that I emotionally cope with (i.e. stop myself from going crazy again) because of the existence of ETers (i.e. believers in eternal torment), is to perceive ETers as God's vessels of grossest dishonour -- a necessary foil of contrast in the guise of truth – a part of the blackest of backgrounds, upon which God will paint His glorious masterpiece of universal transformation using the paint brushes of His undefeatable grace and His love that never fails.

The marred vessels (i.e. ETers), never leave the Potter's hands, (they are marred in the Potter's hands), and neither will anyone leave the Potters hands. After our resurrection from the dead, all ETers will be refashioned, and transformed into vessels of honour, and it will be plain for all to see that it was better that ETers were vessels of dishonour for a long as they were (Jeremiah chapter 18).

One of the dishonourable characteristics of ETers is that they have no desire whatsoever to check out the reasons why URs (i.e. universal reconciliationists) believe that a literally translated, (not interpretively) translated Bible, actually teaches universal salvation.

But it may be that a silent member, or surfer, or lurker on this forum might be motivated enough to check us out and decide if the conclusions of URs have any merit.

UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY
http://richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm

No doubt, many ETers will say that they have examined the evidence of the URs and have rejected it as being false. That, of course is to be expected of those for whom God has chosen to temporarily be a marred vessel. At least, that is the way I see it.

[sheila]

Isaaih 52;11   depart..depart...go ye out of the midst of her..be ye clean that bear the vessels of the Lord[as all men have bore the image

of the corrupt/so,too,shall all men bear the image of the incorrupt[vessels]

    His visage was so marred..more than any man..and His form more than the sons of man. When you see the son/you see the Father...

   God's visage has been marred more than any man's.......hows that? sin has made him out to be a monster...a torturer/tormenter,an

evil doer...

 

[marie glen]

More and more I believe it is hard for those of et persuasion to be able to trust God.. I for one am happy to not be under that yoke. Besides it's so totally illogical.. :dsunny:

[guest5685]

More and more I believe it is hard for those of et persuasion to be able to trust God.. I for one am happy to not be under that yoke. Besides it's so totally illogical.. :dsunny:

I agree pretty much they can't trust enough to rest but sometimes if they tithe and keep attending church every time the doors open they can have periods of feeling righteous and trust to some degree. But any tiny slip up and they have to believe ducking. :punish: :punish:  Been there-done that and there is no rest in that circle. It reminds me of Keith Greens song with the line in it about the children in the desert with Moses "Hard to keep your feet from moving because the sand is so hot."

When you think about it that system is a Wilderness System. :flamebreath: :flamebreath: :flamebreath::eek:

[eaglesway]

More and more I believe it is hard for those of et persuasion to be able to trust God.. I for one am happy to not be under that yoke. Besides it's so totally illogical.. :dsunny:

I agree pretty much they can't trust enough to rest but sometimes if they tithe and keep attending church every time the doors open they can have periods of feeling righteous and trust to some degree. But any tiny slip up and they have to believe ducking. :punish: :punish:  Been there-done that and there is no rest in that circle. It reminds me of Keith Greens song with the line in it about the children in the desert with Moses "Hard to keep your feet from moving because the sand is so hot."

When you think about it that system is a Wilderness System. :flamebreath: :flamebreath: :flamebreath::eek:

Sometimes we forget that Jesus and His Father love all their children. I agree that the ET view distorts the image of God, but His love still comes through to everyone who calls upon His name out of a pure heart.

He is the One who touches and heals and delivers, as He has done for so many- whether through vessels in come confusion or whether directly by His Spirit. I am glad I am free from that confusion, but He was so good to me and faithful, before I knew of UR. Called me, healed me, comforted me and also used me to bring His love to many souls, before they knew anything but "Wow, Jesus loves me!"

[rosered]

More and more I believe it is hard for those of et persuasion to be able to trust God.. I for one am happy to not be under that yoke. Besides it's so totally illogical.. :dsunny:

I agree pretty much they can't trust enough to rest but sometimes if they tithe and keep attending church every time the doors open they can have periods of feeling righteous and trust to some degree. But any tiny slip up and they have to believe ducking. :punish: :punish:  Been there-done that and there is no rest in that circle. It reminds me of Keith Greens song with the line in it about the children in the desert with Moses "Hard to keep your feet from moving because the sand is so hot."

When you think about it that system is a Wilderness System. :flamebreath: :flamebreath: :flamebreath::eek:

Sometimes we forget that Jesus and His Father love all their children. I agree that the ET view distorts the image of God, but His love still comes through to everyone who calls upon His name out of a pure heart.

He is the One who touches and heals and delivers, as He has done for so many- whether through vessels in come confusion or whether directly by His Spirit. I am glad I am free from that confusion, but He was so good to me and faithful, before I knew of UR. Called me, healed me, comforted me and also used me to bring His love to many souls, before they knew anything but "Wow, Jesus loves me!"

  Amen !!   To know God loves all and all are safe in His loving  plan  , it is not Gods desire that any should perish 2 Peter 3

...8But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.

9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

  When we know every knee will bow and surrender to Gods love and Wisdom it is so much easier to  rest in Hope   ,  Our Hope is in the LORD JESUS CHRIST and the work that has been done  by HIS SPIRIT OF TRUTH ... in LOVE ...      by Him   for  Him and though Him  do all things exist    1 Col

The Supremacy of Christ
15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him.

17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together :HeartThrob:   It is so much more than a little human mind could   imagine   ! 

[rodgertutt]

THE BONDAGE OF THE WILL

In the conclusion of his book THE BONDAGE OF THE WILL Martin Luther wrote
there can be no "Free-will"—in man,—in angel,—or in any creature!
http://www.truecovenanter.com/truelutheran/luther_bow.html

"FREE WILL"

A will in bondage to an enslaved mind is only "free" to choose what they prefer which is summed up in Romans 3:10-18. Until God intervenes and causes Jesus to be choice in their heart like He did for Saul of Tarsus, the sinner will always choose their own way rather than God's way unless they happen to coinside.

Gerry Beauchemin wrote
"Tradition has taught that God will not save a person against their will. I agree. However He has the power to orchestrate whatever circumstances are necessary to effect one's will to change.

Once a full revelation of God is received in the ages to come (Eph. 2:7), men will bow and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord just as Isaiah and Paul prophesied (Is. 45:21-25; Rom. 4:11; Ph. 2:9-11). Who would want to continue in active and persistent rebellion knowing God only wants what is best for them? Knowing the great goodness and love of God, along with the Holy Spirit working in their hearts, these hardened hearts must melt before His glorious being.

It is impossible that an omnipotent God can fail in His purpose so that some would forever resist unconditional love opting for everlasting pain. This would be totally irrational. And even if one were that irrational, such resistance would not arise out of a 'free' will, but an 'enslaved' will, a will in bondage to an enslaved mind."
GERRY BEAUCHEMIN

Here is a helpful article on the subject.
MAN IS NOT A FREE MORAL AGENT
http://www.godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html

[rodgertutt]

THE CIRCUMCISION EVANGEL VERSUS THE UNCIRCUMCISION EVANGEL
Bob Evely

As to the "why's" of God's plan; we can only speculate. The fact is that no man is deserving of grace, and God's method is to begin with a group He has called (the body of Christ) to display His grace to the remainder of humanity and to proclaim the evangel ... all toward the end that grace and salvation is realized by all.

As for the words of Jesus, we must remember these pertain to the kingdom to come upon the earth ... the restoration of Israel's kingdom. In many of Jesus' words we see that the "rules" are very works-based.  But later came a more full expression of grace, when God had demonstrated that NONE could earn righteousness thru works ... and with the "new rules" that Paul subsequently talked about, it is all grace and no works to boast of.

When Paul talks about the fact that some, based on behavior, would not enter the kingdom ... He is telling his audience that as it pertains to the earthly kingdom, these folks would be excluded. He says this to instill within them the idea that as a result of God's grace, they too should avoid these behaviors. The main difference in evangel's is that the Circumcision evangel told folks ... have faith and works. Paul's Uncircumcision evangel is simply have faith, as God has accomplished what man could not. We must remember that as we read various parts of the Scriptures that mankind is a work in progress. When we read of God's anger, or folks being excluded from the earthly kingdom, etc. ... this is a part of the process, thru which God is working toward His ultimate, eventual goal ... the salvation and reconciliation of all.

When folks tend to ask questions about specific objections, always try to get them to first look at the basic overall plan that God has in store for mankind. In other words, we must consider the Bible in total first to see how God is working in all ages ... and then we can worry about the specific questions. To jump into the questions too quickly takes the focus off of God's revelation in total.

[rodgertutt]

THE GRAND ASSERTION –  Don Hicks

ALL OF MANKIND WAS DECLARED RIGHTEOUS BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST AND ALL OF MANKIND WILL COME TO BELIEVE IN JESUS AS LORD AND GOD AS SAVIOR FOLLOWING THE NECESSARY DISCIPLINE OF THE CONSUMING PURIFYING FIRE OF GOD.

Mal 3:2b "For he is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap;"

SUB-ASSERTION #1

MANKIND WAS DECLARED RIGHTEOUS BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST HAVING BEEN RECONCILED TO GOD BY HIS DEATH

Rom 5:6-10 "For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died
for the ungodly.  But God demonstrates his own love for us, in that while
we were still sinners, Christ died for us.  Much more then, because we have
now been declared righteous by his blood, we will be saved through him from
God's wrath.  For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God
through the death of his Son, how much more, since we have been reconciled,
will we be saved by his life?

Note that a summary of these verses could be the following:
While we were helpless ungodly sinners who were His enemies, Christ died
for us, declared us righteous by his blood, will save us from God's wrath,
and  reconciled  us to God through His death.

Helpless ungodly sinners who were enemies of God and Christ may be words
written to those of Rome who were currently believers, but here Paul is
obviously referencing their status with God prior to their becoming
believers.  Therefore the being reconciled to God and declared righteous
occurred prior to belief since these descriptions are hardly of believers.

At the foot of the cross were many helpless ungodly sinners who were the
enemies of Jesus, yet He said, "Father forgive them for they don't know
what they are doing".  I believe the Father was in agreement with this
prayer of Jesus and so their sins were or will be forgiven on the merits of
Jesus alone.  Mankind was declared righteous, or justified on that day.
Paul reinforces the fact of being declared righteous was for all mankind a
few verses later in Rom 5:18, "Consequently, just as one offense resulted
in condemnation for everyone, so one act of righteousness results in
justification and life for everyone."

SUB-ASSERTION #2

NO "PUNISHMENT", "DESTRUCTION", "PERISHING", "LOSTNESS" IS ETERNAL; RATHER GOD'S "PUNISHMENTS" OR "DESTRUCTION" ARE CORRECTIVE IN NATURE

Now, we do need His discipline to make us fit for His kingdom. This
discipline will not be "eternal", but it will be "aeonian or eonian", the
English equivalents of the Greek "aionios".  "Aeonian" punishment as
referred to in Mt. 25:46, one of the proof texts for those who hold to the
heresy of the eternal torment of non-believers, is the type of correction
that God will administer to the unbeliever.  The noun being modified by
aeonian is the word punishment, which is the Greek "kolasis" which has been
used in reference to "pruning" a plant for the purpose of better
production. "Kolasis" punishment is the corrective type, whereas, "timoria"
punishment is the retributive type.  The "aeonian" life in Mt. 25:46 is the
life given to the believer by God beginning at the point of belief.  This
is that life we enjoy as believers which blesses us now as we deal with
this physical life and also blesses us with the promise of immortality and
therefore everlasting communion with our Father.

Aeonian destruction as referenced in 2 Thess. 1:7-9, "...who will be punished
with aeonian destruction from the presence of the Lord,...", is the kind of
destruction necessary for God to administer for the fulfillment of His
purposes.  Destruction is equivalent to death in that it is "from the
presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power".  Jesus was
"destroyed" at the cross, but as in His case, so with all cases of
destruction or death, there is no sense of "eternal" associated with them
as Jesus rose to life and "the last enemy to be eliminated will be death".

The "lost" sheep, coin, and son of Luke 15 referred to a condition that did
not last forever.  The word "lost" is the translation of the Greek
"apollumi", from which we have the translations lose, lost, perish,
destroy, etc.  As we can see in Luke 15, the sheep, coin, and son were only
"lost" until they were found.  This harmonizes with the fact that Jesus
said He came to "seek and save the lost".

Note that the following verse tells us that there is a special benefit for
becoming a believer now, but that God will save all of the "lost"
unbelievers also.  1Tim 4:10 "For to this end we toil and strive, because
we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men,
especially of those who believe."  The Greek word that got translated
"especially" here is "malista".  Checking its usage in other verses makes
it clear that especially is a good choice for English since it does refer
to extra special attention to something, but not to the exclusion of other
items mentioned in the context.

The Hebrew word "olam" has as its Greek equivalents "aion" and "aionios" in
the Septuagint.  An analysis of the approximately 440 occurrences of olam
in the Old Testament suggests that it means a period of time without the
end in sight but not necessarily "eternal", or "everlasting" or "forever",
if it should ever be.  Olam was only 3 days in the case of Jonah's duration
in the fish, even though the "traditional" translation has been "forever".
Also, the length of time a person would be the slave has been referred to
as "forever", which we know is literally only for their physical lifetime.
Some versions never use eternal, everlasting, or forever for olam.  Have
you noticed some versions use the phrase "forever and ever".  Have you ever
given thought to the absurdity of adding the words "and ever" after you
have already said forever?  What's more than forever?  That's like saying
something lasts for an eternity and then for another eternity.  The
absurdity of this should add to our awareness of the bias of those
translators who consistently translate olam, aion, and aionios as eternal,
everlasting, forever, or the absurd "forever and ever" phrase.

An analysis of the word "hell" is quite revealing.  Jesus used the word
"geena" or "hades" and tradition (KJV, Catholic church, etc.) has had the
ignorant  audacity to use this Anglo-Saxon word "hell", which means
"unseen" (a-des), corresponding to the Hebrew "sheol" and attach to it a
meaning out of pagan mythology of a place of eternal torment.  Dr. Thomas
Thayer in his book "The Origin and History of the Doctrine of Endless
Punishment" traces this myth of eternal torment that became associated with
the word hell to ancient Egypt.  Geena (sometimes Gehenna) was the Valley
of Hinnom which became a garbage dump on the outskirts of Jerusalem where
carcasses of criminals were burned which Jesus metaphorically referenced as
a future potential punishment with no sense of "eternal" punishment
inherent in its meaning.  This refers to aeonian punishment which again is
God's corrective punishment.  Gehenna should have been left untranslated
because it is a geographical location that the Jews of Jesus' audience knew
exactly what he was referring to.  Hades should have also been left
untranslated or translated as "unseen" or "the grave" as some versions do,
as Hades definitely has no inherent punishment connotation.  There are a
number of versions that don't use the word "hell" even once, realizing the
bad rap the word has gotten with the erroneous connotation.

SUB-ASSERTION #3

ALL HUMANITY WILL COME TO BELIEVE IN GOD AND WILL WORSHIP HIM SOONER OR LATER

The following are 5 witnesses (scriptures) from 4 of God's servants: DAVID,
ISAIAH, PAUL, and JOHN.

NOTE:  Nowhere in the Word do we have any evidence that one must come to
belief in this lifetime, which is another myth of man; contrariwise, we
have much evidence in the following verses and many others that some will
only come to belief after their physical death.  At this point some might
think of the Rich Man and Lazarus parable, Matt. 13:34. Parables must be discerned
spiritually as they are not to be taken literally since they are fictional
stories to convey a spiritual message.  Consider this, Rich Man = Jews and
Lazarus = Gentiles and the spiritual message is that the Jews will be
disciplined for their attitude toward and treatment of the Gentiles.

Keep in mind that belief is granted by God in His time not in man's.  God
grants belief to some in this lifetime and others after their physical
death.  The myth that one must come to belief in this lifetime is something
man dreamed up or more than likely got from the pagans and added to his
traditions, but God's word does not speak of it.

John 6:44  "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him;
and I will raise him up at the last day."

Phi 1:29  "For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you
should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake,"

THE MASTER PLAN OF THE MASTER COULD BE SUMMED UP IN A COMPREHENSIVE SUMMARY OF HIS WORD AS FOLLOWS AS ATTESTED BY MANY WITNESSES.

"ALL IS OUT OF ME AND ALL WILL COME BACK TO ME." --- GOD

Rom 11:36  For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him
be glory forever. Amen.
1Co 15:28  When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will
also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that
God may be all in all.

GOD WILL BE ALL IN ALL = GOD WILL BE EVERYTHING TO EVERYONE

OUR SPIRIT CAME OUT OF GOD AND WILL RETURN TO GOD

DAVID was inspired to write:

Psalms 22:27-28 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the
LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee. For
the kingdom is the LORD's: and he is the governor among the nations

ISAIAH was inspired to write:

Isa 45:23  By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in
righteousness a word that shall not return: 'To me every knee shall bow,
every tongue shall swear allegiance.'
Isa 45:24  "Only in the LORD, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and
strength; to him shall come and be ashamed all who were incensed against
him.

PAUL was inspired to write:

Phi 2:10-11  "...so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow
— in heaven and on earth and under the earth — and every tongue confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."

Rom 14:11  For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee will
bow to me, and every tongue will give praise to God."

JOHN was inspired to record:

Rev 5:13 "And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the
earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, "To him who sits on
the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might
for the ages of the ages!"

SINCE AFTER A CERTAIN TIME DEATH WILL CEASE TO BE, LEAVING ONLY LIFE AND HENCE NO MORE SEPARATION BETWEEN GOD AND MAN, ALL OF THESE WITNESSES CAN TESTIFY TO THE SAME THING:

NOTE: The feeble attempt to downplay this worshipping, bowing, and
confessing as somehow "forced", is born out of bias for eternal torment.
Note particularly in Phil. 2:11 the phrase "to the glory of God the
Father".  It is obviously not giving God glory to say Jesus is Lord without
meaning it and you might also recall what Paul said about saying that Jesus
is Lord, that "...no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit."
(1 Cor. 12:3b)

EVERY CREATED BEING WILL SOME DAY PRAISE AND GLORIFY GOD

[darryl]

THE GRAND ASSERTION –  Don Hicks

ALL OF MANKIND WAS DECLARED RIGHTEOUS BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST AND ALL OF MANKIND WILL COME TO BELIEVE IN JESUS AS LORD AND GOD AS SAVIOR FOLLOWING THE NECESSARY DISCIPLINE OF THE CONSUMING PURIFYING FIRE OF GOD.

Mal 3:2b "For he is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap;"

SUB-ASSERTION #1

MANKIND WAS DECLARED RIGHTEOUS BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST HAVING BEEN RECONCILED TO GOD BY HIS DEATH

Rom 5:6-10 "For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died
for the ungodly.  But God demonstrates his own love for us, in that while
we were still sinners, Christ died for us.  Much more then, because we have
now been declared righteous by his blood, we will be saved through him from
God's wrath.  For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God
through the death of his Son, how much more, since we have been reconciled,
will we be saved by his life?

Note that a summary of these verses could be the following:
While we were helpless ungodly sinners who were His enemies, Christ died
for us, declared us righteous by his blood, will save us from God's wrath,
and  reconciled  us to God through His death.

Helpless ungodly sinners who were enemies of God and Christ may be words
written to those of Rome who were currently believers, but here Paul is
obviously referencing their status with God prior to their becoming
believers.  Therefore the being reconciled to God and declared righteous
occurred prior to belief since these descriptions are hardly of believers.

At the foot of the cross were many helpless ungodly sinners who were the
enemies of Jesus, yet He said, "Father forgive them for they don't know
what they are doing".  I believe the Father was in agreement with this
prayer of Jesus and so their sins were or will be forgiven on the merits of
Jesus alone.  Mankind was declared righteous, or justified on that day.
Paul reinforces the fact of being declared righteous was for all mankind a
few verses later in Rom 5:18, "Consequently, just as one offense resulted
in condemnation for everyone, so one act of righteousness results in
justification and life for everyone."

SUB-ASSERTION #2

NO "PUNISHMENT", "DESTRUCTION", "PERISHING", "LOSTNESS" IS ETERNAL; RATHER GOD'S "PUNISHMENTS" OR "DESTRUCTION" ARE CORRECTIVE IN NATURE

Now, we do need His discipline to make us fit for His kingdom. This
discipline will not be "eternal", but it will be "aeonian or eonian", the
English equivalents of the Greek "aionios".  "Aeonian" punishment as
referred to in Mt. 25:46, one of the proof texts for those who hold to the
heresy of the eternal torment of non-believers, is the type of correction
that God will administer to the unbeliever.  The noun being modified by
aeonian is the word punishment, which is the Greek "kolasis" which has been
used in reference to "pruning" a plant for the purpose of better
production. "Kolasis" punishment is the corrective type, whereas, "timoria"
punishment is the retributive type.  The "aeonian" life in Mt. 25:46 is the
life given to the believer by God beginning at the point of belief.  This
is that life we enjoy as believers which blesses us now as we deal with
this physical life and also blesses us with the promise of immortality and
therefore everlasting communion with our Father.

Aeonian destruction as referenced in 2 Thess. 1:7-9, "...who will be punished
with aeonian destruction from the presence of the Lord,...", is the kind of
destruction necessary for God to administer for the fulfillment of His
purposes.  Destruction is equivalent to death in that it is "from the
presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power".  Jesus was
"destroyed" at the cross, but as in His case, so with all cases of
destruction or death, there is no sense of "eternal" associated with them
as Jesus rose to life and "the last enemy to be eliminated will be death".

The "lost" sheep, coin, and son of Luke 15 referred to a condition that did
not last forever.  The word "lost" is the translation of the Greek
"apollumi", from which we have the translations lose, lost, perish,
destroy, etc.  As we can see in Luke 15, the sheep, coin, and son were only
"lost" until they were found.  This harmonizes with the fact that Jesus
said He came to "seek and save the lost".

Note that the following verse tells us that there is a special benefit for
becoming a believer now, but that God will save all of the "lost"
unbelievers also.  1Tim 4:10 "For to this end we toil and strive, because
we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men,
especially of those who believe."  The Greek word that got translated
"especially" here is "malista".  Checking its usage in other verses makes
it clear that especially is a good choice for English since it does refer
to extra special attention to something, but not to the exclusion of other
items mentioned in the context.

The Hebrew word "olam" has as its Greek equivalents "aion" and "aionios" in
the Septuagint.  An analysis of the approximately 440 occurrences of olam
in the Old Testament suggests that it means a period of time without the
end in sight but not necessarily "eternal", or "everlasting" or "forever",
if it should ever be.  Olam was only 3 days in the case of Jonah's duration
in the fish, even though the "traditional" translation has been "forever".
Also, the length of time a person would be the slave has been referred to
as "forever", which we know is literally only for their physical lifetime.
Some versions never use eternal, everlasting, or forever for olam.  Have
you noticed some versions use the phrase "forever and ever".  Have you ever
given thought to the absurdity of adding the words "and ever" after you
have already said forever?  What's more than forever?  That's like saying
something lasts for an eternity and then for another eternity.  The
absurdity of this should add to our awareness of the bias of those
translators who consistently translate olam, aion, and aionios as eternal,
everlasting, forever, or the absurd "forever and ever" phrase.

An analysis of the word "hell" is quite revealing.  Jesus used the word
"geena" or "hades" and tradition (KJV, Catholic church, etc.) has had the
ignorant  audacity to use this Anglo-Saxon word "hell", which means
"unseen" (a-des), corresponding to the Hebrew "sheol" and attach to it a
meaning out of pagan mythology of a place of eternal torment.  Dr. Thomas
Thayer in his book "The Origin and History of the Doctrine of Endless
Punishment" traces this myth of eternal torment that became associated with
the word hell to ancient Egypt.  Geena (sometimes Gehenna) was the Valley
of Hinnom which became a garbage dump on the outskirts of Jerusalem where
carcasses of criminals were burned which Jesus metaphorically referenced as
a future potential punishment with no sense of "eternal" punishment
inherent in its meaning.  This refers to aeonian punishment which again is
God's corrective punishment.  Gehenna should have been left untranslated
because it is a geographical location that the Jews of Jesus' audience knew
exactly what he was referring to.  Hades should have also been left
untranslated or translated as "unseen" or "the grave" as some versions do,
as Hades definitely has no inherent punishment connotation.  There are a
number of versions that don't use the word "hell" even once, realizing the
bad rap the word has gotten with the erroneous connotation.

SUB-ASSERTION #3

ALL HUMANITY WILL COME TO BELIEVE IN GOD AND WILL WORSHIP HIM SOONER OR LATER

The following are 5 witnesses (scriptures) from 4 of God's servants: DAVID,
ISAIAH, PAUL, and JOHN.

NOTE:  Nowhere in the Word do we have any evidence that one must come to
belief in this lifetime, which is another myth of man; contrariwise, we
have much evidence in the following verses and many others that some will
only come to belief after their physical death.  At this point some might
think of the Rich Man and Lazarus parable, Matt. 13:34. Parables must be discerned
spiritually as they are not to be taken literally since they are fictional
stories to convey a spiritual message.  Consider this, Rich Man = Jews and
Lazarus = Gentiles and the spiritual message is that the Jews will be
disciplined for their attitude toward and treatment of the Gentiles.

Keep in mind that belief is granted by God in His time not in man's.  God
grants belief to some in this lifetime and others after their physical
death.  The myth that one must come to belief in this lifetime is something
man dreamed up or more than likely got from the pagans and added to his
traditions, but God's word does not speak of it.

John 6:44  "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him;
and I will raise him up at the last day."

Phi 1:29  "For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you
should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake,"

THE MASTER PLAN OF THE MASTER COULD BE SUMMED UP IN A COMPREHENSIVE SUMMARY OF HIS WORD AS FOLLOWS AS ATTESTED BY MANY WITNESSES.

"ALL IS OUT OF ME AND ALL WILL COME BACK TO ME." --- GOD

Rom 11:36  For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him
be glory forever. Amen.
1Co 15:28  When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will
also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that
God may be all in all.

GOD WILL BE ALL IN ALL = GOD WILL BE EVERYTHING TO EVERYONE

OUR SPIRIT CAME OUT OF GOD AND WILL RETURN TO GOD

DAVID was inspired to write:

Psalms 22:27-28 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the
LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee. For
the kingdom is the LORD's: and he is the governor among the nations

ISAIAH was inspired to write:

Isa 45:23  By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in
righteousness a word that shall not return: 'To me every knee shall bow,
every tongue shall swear allegiance.'
Isa 45:24  "Only in the LORD, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and
strength; to him shall come and be ashamed all who were incensed against
him.

PAUL was inspired to write:

Phi 2:10-11  "...so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow
— in heaven and on earth and under the earth — and every tongue confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."

Rom 14:11  For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee will
bow to me, and every tongue will give praise to God."

JOHN was inspired to record:

Rev 5:13 "And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the
earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, "To him who sits on
the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might
for the ages of the ages!"

SINCE AFTER A CERTAIN TIME DEATH WILL CEASE TO BE, LEAVING ONLY LIFE AND HENCE NO MORE SEPARATION BETWEEN GOD AND MAN, ALL OF THESE WITNESSES CAN TESTIFY TO THE SAME THING:

NOTE: The feeble attempt to downplay this worshipping, bowing, and
confessing as somehow "forced", is born out of bias for eternal torment.
Note particularly in Phil. 2:11 the phrase "to the glory of God the
Father".  It is obviously not giving God glory to say Jesus is Lord without
meaning it and you might also recall what Paul said about saying that Jesus
is Lord, that "...no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit."
(1 Cor. 12:3b)

EVERY CREATED BEING WILL SOME DAY PRAISE AND GLORIFY GOD

Amen..God never made anybody in the first place whom He could not ultimately redeem !

[eaglesway]

The reason some translations use for ever and ever is that aion, which they translated as forever, was sometimes written as aionas tou aionon  "ages of ages" or "age of ages". Which they translate forever and ever- which is really contrived and clearly inaccurate.

[jugghead]

It is like the word "wrath" ..... the majority of the time it is the word that its original meaning means "desire", for example Romans 5:8-10

Rom 5:8  But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9  Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10  For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Most people think (by men) that we are being saved from God's wrath, His anger, but taken as its original meaning "desire" .... we shall be saved from desire through Him ..... and what desire are we being saved from? Is it not the desire of the flesh? for is it not by the life of Christ in us that we desire the things of the Father (of the Spirit) rather than things of the world (of the flesh) because as the desires of the Spirit increase the desire of the flesh decreases.

Which I also see as "to die daily"

[rodgertutt]

THE LAKE OF FIRE WHICH IS THE SECOND DEATH

THE JUST JUDGMENT OF GOD – JAMES CORAM
"The main point which we seek to impress upon our readers is to accept God's declaration that, for those who are judged before the great white throne, the lake of fire is the second death, not a second lifetime.

While the 'injury' (literal translation) sustained by those who are cast into the lake if fire (in Revelation 20:14,15) will be fatal (since to these the lake of fire is the second death), it will not be permanent. We may be certain that this is the case, for, at the consummation, death will be abolished and all will be vivified, that God may be All in all. God is the Saviour of all mankind, and this includes all who enter the second death."

EVENTUALLY EVERYONE WILL BE SAVED

Sinners whose names are not in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire which is the second death. But everyone who is cast into the lake of fire which is the second death will be saved out of it.

Everyone who is cast into the lake of fire which is the second death will be saved out of it.

"Where is a resurrection from the lake of fire taught in the scriptures?

The lake of fire is distinctly defined as the second death (Rev.20:14; 21:8). In it is cast all that is still at enmity with God. So that, death is indeed the last enemy (1 Cor.15:26).
And we are just as decidedly told that Christ is the one who abolishes death and brings life and incorruptibility to light (2 Tim.1:10). The reading "hath abolished" is not true as to fact or as to grammar. It is in the indefinite form (commonly called the aorist tense) simply recording the fact apart from time. Death has not been abolished yet.
How and when it will be abolished is told us in the fifteenth of first Corinthians. It is to be abolished by means of universal vivification (1 Cor.15:22). This takes place at the consummation (1 Cor.15:26).
It is useless to look for plain statements on this subject in parts of the Scriptures whose scope is limited to eonian truth, such as the Revelation. It is unwise to look for it anywhere but in the special portion which deals with this topic. Death and resurrection are exhaustively treated in the fifteenth chapter of first Corinthians and there it is we should look for clear statements as to the ultimate goal. There we are distinctly told that the last enemy that shall be abolished is death (which must refer to the lake of fire which is the second death, for the first death cannot be the last enemy). And there we are told that it is to be done by a universal vivification rather than resurrection.
The term "resurrection" is applied to those who have afterward died again, such as those who suffer the second death. Hence there is not a resurrection, merely, from the lake of fire, but a vivification beyond which there can be no death.
It is also apparent from Col. 1:15-20 that the lake of fire is not the end of God's plan for those cast into the fire. See also Ro. 5:18, 19
James Coram.
http://www.concordant.org/expohtml/QuestionsAndAnswers/Q&AIndex1.html#9a

Note God's wording
In Christ all shall be made alive
not
All who are in Christ shall be made alive

[rosered]

It is like the word "wrath" ..... the majority of the time it is the word that its original meaning means "desire", for example Romans 5:8-10

Rom 5:8  But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9  Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10  For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Most people think (by men) that we are being saved from God's wrath, His anger, but taken as its original meaning "desire" .... we shall be saved from desire through Him ..... and what desire are we being saved from? Is it not the desire of the flesh? for is it not by the life of Christ in us that we desire the things of the Father (of the Spirit) rather than things of the world (of the flesh) because as the desires of the Spirit increase the desire of the flesh decreases.

Which I also see as "to die daily"

  Amen  !!!      Great thoughts Jugg !,

     As the old man  decreases  in weakness against the Spirit[consumed ]    that warring   , the new man in Christ is strengthened    daily , give us this day our daily bread  , food for thought and dwelling on them heavenly things of Gods Word and Spirit of Truth .
  we worship Him in Spirit and truth      nothing else   can enter into His glorious kingdom that defiles   
  :HeartThrob:  God bless  you and yours brother .

[rosered]

THE LAKE OF FIRE WHICH IS THE SECOND DEATH

THE JUST JUDGMENT OF GOD – JAMES CORAM
"The main point which we seek to impress upon our readers is to accept God's declaration that, for those who are judged before the great white throne, the lake of fire is the second death, not a second lifetime.

While the 'injury' (literal translation) sustained by those who are cast into the lake if fire (in Revelation 20:14,15) will be fatal (since to these the lake of fire is the second death), it will not be permanent. We may be certain that this is the case, for, at the consummation, death will be abolished and all will be vivified, that God may be All in all. God is the Saviour of all mankind, and this includes all who enter the second death."

EVENTUALLY EVERYONE WILL BE SAVED

Sinners whose names are not in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire which is the second death. But everyone who is cast into the lake of fire which is the second death will be saved out of it.

Everyone who is cast into the lake of fire which is the second death will be saved out of it.

"Where is a resurrection from the lake of fire taught in the scriptures?

The lake of fire is distinctly defined as the second death (Rev.20:14; 21:8). In it is cast all that is still at enmity with God. So that, death is indeed the last enemy (1 Cor.15:26).
And we are just as decidedly told that Christ is the one who abolishes death and brings life and incorruptibility to light (2 Tim.1:10). The reading "hath abolished" is not true as to fact or as to grammar. It is in the indefinite form (commonly called the aorist tense) simply recording the fact apart from time. Death has not been abolished yet.
How and when it will be abolished is told us in the fifteenth of first Corinthians. It is to be abolished by means of universal vivification (1 Cor.15:22). This takes place at the consummation (1 Cor.15:26).
It is useless to look for plain statements on this subject in parts of the Scriptures whose scope is limited to eonian truth, such as the Revelation. It is unwise to look for it anywhere but in the special portion which deals with this topic. Death and resurrection are exhaustively treated in the fifteenth chapter of first Corinthians and there it is we should look for clear statements as to the ultimate goal. There we are distinctly told that the last enemy that shall be abolished is death (which must refer to the lake of fire which is the second death, for the first death cannot be the last enemy). And there we are told that it is to be done by a universal vivification rather than resurrection.
The term "resurrection" is applied to those who have afterward died again, such as those who suffer the second death. Hence there is not a resurrection, merely, from the lake of fire, but a vivification beyond which there can be no death.
It is also apparent from Col. 1:15-20 that the lake of fire is not the end of God's plan for those cast into the fire. See also Ro. 5:18, 19
James Coram.
http://www.concordant.org/expohtml/QuestionsAndAnswers/Q&AIndex1.html#9a

Note God's wording
In Christ all shall be made alive
not
All who are in Christ shall be made alive

  Thank God for you Rodger  and all the  work you do  faithfully   brother     , God bless your heart with more and more of Him  :HeartThrob:

[rodgertutt]

My pleasure rosered  :HeartThrob:

SOONER OR LATER EVERYONE WILL BE IN HEAVEN

Up until the time of Augustine, most Christians believed in universal salvation.

Dr. Edwin Abbott, headmaster of the City of London School, wrote in his Cambridge Sermons -
QUOTE: "An argument was introduced by Augustine, and since his day incessantly repeated, that if aionios kolasis does not mean "endless punishment," then there is no security for the believer that aionios zoe means "endless life," and that he will enjoy the promise of endless happiness. But Matt. 25:46 shows the "eonian chastisement" and "eonian life" are of the same duration-lasting during the eons, and when the eons end, as Scripture states they will (1 Cor. 10:11; Heb. 9:26), the time called "eonian" is past and the life called "eonian" is finished, but life continues beyond the eons, as Paul teaches at 1 Cor. 15:26: "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." (which must refer to the lake of fire, for the first death cannot be the last enemy). That is, the last, the final one in order. How will it be destroyed? First Corinthians 15:22 gives the answer: "For as IN ADAM ALL are dying, even so IN CHRIST ALL shall be made alive." Death is destroyed when ALL have been made alive, IN CHRIST."
-- Dr. Edwin Abbott

Note God's wording
In Christ all shall be made alive
not
All who are in Christ shall be made alive

GOD'S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
"During the present wicked eon (Gal.1:4), Sin reigns, Satan who is said to be "the god of this eon" (2 Cor.4:4) blinds and deceives mankind, and death swallows up the race (1 Cor.15:22). But notwithstanding, God is over all and is in supreme control. He is the eonian God. In due time He will deliver the entire creation and bring good out of all the suffering mankind is called upon to endure (Rom.8;18-23)."

GOD'S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html 

Universalism:
The Prevailing Doctrine Of the Christian Church During Its First Five-Hundred Years
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Prevailing.html
And they were reading the Bible in its original language!

[rodgertutt]

THE MANY

Some ask, Why does it say "the many" instead of "all" in Roman 5:19?

This is because the one disobedient man (Adam), and the One righteous Man (Christ) are put in a class by themselves. They are in contrast with "the many."

We may put it as follows:
The one disobedient man plus "the many" equals all mankind made sinners.
The One obedient Man plus "the many" equals all mankind made righteous.

That "the one" plus "the many" made sinners includes all mankind no one will deny.

Even so, "the One" plus "the many" made righteous is all-inclusive and guarantees the salvation of all mankind.

[marie glen]

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Amen! Love that! Makes (the) perfect sense! :smile:

[darryl]

My pleasure rosered  :HeartThrob:

SOONER OR LATER EVERYONE WILL BE IN HEAVEN

Up until the time of Augustine, most Christians believed in universal salvation.

Dr. Edwin Abbott, headmaster of the City of London School, wrote in his Cambridge Sermons -
QUOTE: "An argument was introduced by Augustine, and since his day incessantly repeated, that if aionios kolasis does not mean "endless punishment," then there is no security for the believer that aionios zoe means "endless life," and that he will enjoy the promise of endless happiness. But Matt. 25:46 shows the "eonian chastisement" and "eonian life" are of the same duration-lasting during the eons, and when the eons end, as Scripture states they will (1 Cor. 10:11; Heb. 9:26), the time called "eonian" is past and the life called "eonian" is finished, but life continues beyond the eons, as Paul teaches at 1 Cor. 15:26: "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." (which must refer to the lake of fire, for the first death cannot be the last enemy). That is, the last, the final one in order. How will it be destroyed? First Corinthians 15:22 gives the answer: "For as IN ADAM ALL are dying, even so IN CHRIST ALL shall be made alive." Death is destroyed when ALL have been made alive, IN CHRIST."
-- Dr. Edwin Abbott

Note God's wording
In Christ all shall be made alive
not
All who are in Christ shall be made alive

GOD'S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
"During the present wicked eon (Gal.1:4), Sin reigns, Satan who is said to be "the god of this eon" (2 Cor.4:4) blinds and deceives mankind, and death swallows up the race (1 Cor.15:22). But notwithstanding, God is over all and is in supreme control. He is the eonian God. In due time He will deliver the entire creation and bring good out of all the suffering mankind is called upon to endure (Rom.8;18-23)."

GOD'S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html 

Universalism:
The Prevailing Doctrine Of the Christian Church During Its First Five-Hundred Years
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Prevailing.html
And they were reading the Bible in its original language!

And they were reading the Bible in its original language! Yes !..they were ...and reading it in the original language changes everything !.

[eaglesway]

Love the Abott quote.

[jugghead]

reason is not automatic, those who deny it cannot be conquered by it

[rodgertutt]

The meaning of words that have been translated as "eternal", "forever", "incurable" in the scriptures

Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude
7)--until--God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom"
Ez. 16:53-55).

Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jer.
30:12)-until--the Lord "will restore health" and heal
her wounds (Jer. 30:17).

The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Mic. 1:9)-until--
Lord "will restore ... the fortunes of Samaria." (Ez.
16:53).

An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the
Lord's congregation "forever"-until--the tenth
generation (Deut. 23:3):

Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were
"everlasting", that is -until-- they "were shattered"
Hab. 3 3:6).

The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting"
priesthood (Ex. 40:15), that is-until-it was
superseded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Hebrews
7:14-18).

Many translations of the Bible inform us that God
would dwell in Solomon's Temple "forever" (1 Kings
8:13), that is,--until the Temple was destroyed.

The Law of Moses was to be an "everlasting covenant"
(Leviticus 24:8) yet we read in the New Covenant the
first was "done away" and "abolished" (2 Corinthians
3:11,13), and God "made the first old" (Hebrews 8:13).

God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah
"forever"-until--the Lord delivers him from the large
fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6,10; 1: 17);

Egypt and Elam will "rise no more" (Jer.
25:27)-until--the Lord will "restore the fortunes of
Egypt" (Ez. 29:14) and "restore the fortunes of Elam"
(Jer. 49:39).

"Moab is destroyed" (Jer. 48:4, 42)-until--the Lord
"will restore the fortunes of Moab" (Jer. 48:47).

Israel's judgment lasts "forever"-until--the Spirit is
poured out and God restores it (Isa. 32:13-15).

So, narrow is the way to life and few find it-until--
His church confiscates the "strong man's" booty,
setting the captives free so God becomes all in all
(Isa. 61, Luke 11:21-22, Matt. 7:13; 16:18, 1 Cor.
15:24-28).

The King James Bible, as well as many others, tells us
that a bondslave was to serve his master "forever"
(Exodus 21:6), that is,--until--his death.