SNIPPETS FROM THE HARD COPY UR LIBRARY OF RODGER TUTT

[eaglesway]

 :thumbsup:

[rodgertutt]

AION – AIONIOS

HOW ETERNITY SLIPPED IN
http://thetencommandmentsministry.us/ministry/free_bible/whence_eternity

In the first three chapters of Ephesians, (a key book regarding God's plan for man relative to the fullness of the times) aion is used seven times. And out of those seven, the KJV has chosen five different English words ("ages," "course," "end," "eternal," and "world.") to translate this one word.

And to add to this confusion, it translates the Greek word genea (generation), a totally different word, twice as "ages."

Talk about confusion compounded!

Is it any wonder the church has been blinded from God's truth about the purpose of His judgments and His eonian plan to save all fallen creatures?!

Simply put, the Scriptures do not take up the philosophical concept of eternity, but rather speak of eons and that which pertains to them. Of course God's glory exceeds the eons, but His glory is reflected by His Son during the eons as they are presented in Scripture.

No two words in the history of man have been so torturing as aion and aionion. No two words in the history of man, mishandled by man, have contributed more to the physical, emotional and spiritual harm of so many, than these. You may think I must be exaggerating. But I am not. It is the mistranslation of these two words that has foisted the false and destructive doctrine of eternal torment upon the church and the world.

Mistranslation of the Greek words "aion" and "aionion" is a master stroke of diabolical genius. No other words erroneously translated, could more effectively pervert man's image of God and cause such widespread confusion. The following work by Joseph E. Kirk is offered in the hope that the serious seeker after scriptural truth will be aided in their quest.
CHART OF GOD'S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html

Also see
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/index.html
(especially note the quotes by the many Greek scholars in chapters three and twelve)

AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html
See the first item under APPENDIX
AIDIOS – AN IMPORTANT WORD CONSIDERED
A SNIPPET FROM THE GREEK WORD AION – AIONIOS TRANSLATED EVERLASTING – ETERNAL IN THE HOLY BIBLE SHOWN TO DENOTE LIMITED DURATION – JOHN WESLEY HANSON

"The word aidios (not aionios) was in universal use among the non-Christian Greek Jews of our Savior's day, to convey the idea of eternal duration, and was used by them to teach endless punishment.

Jesus never allowed himself to use it in connection with punishment, nor did any of His disciples but one, and he but once, and then carefully and expressly limited its meaning. Can demonstration go further than this to show that Jesus carefully avoided the phraseology by which His contemporaries described the doctrine of endless punishment? Jesus never adopted the language of His day on this subject. Their language was aidios timoria, endless torment. His language was aionion kolasin, age-lasting correction. They described unending ruin, He, discipline, resulting in reformation."
AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html
See the first item under APPENDIX
AIDIOS – AN IMPORTANT WORD CONSIDERED

"In THE VOCABULARY OF THE GREEK TESTAMENT (edited by James Hope Moulton and George Milligan) Concerning aionios we read, "In general, the word depicts that of which the horizon is not in view . . ." (p.16). If the horizon of the extermination spoken of by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 1:9 is simply not in view, then we can see that what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:22 can truly occur. The same all who are dying in Adam, which includes some who incur eonian extermination, can indeed eventually be vivified in Christ. The Bible, in fact, does not speak of judgment and condemnation, death and destruction, hades and Gehenna, or any of these serious consequences of sin, as unending. It may refer to them as not having the end in view, but none of these fearful works of God can keep Him from achieving His will (1Tim.2:4); reconciling all through the blood of Christ's cross (Col.1:20, and becoming All in all (1 Cor.15:28).".
Dean Hough

[Tom]

Roger, I agree about "aion" and "aionion," but I think "aidion" is better translated as "imperceptible" rather than "eternal" as it is in the Concordant Version in Romans 1:20 and Jude 1:6. See the attachment.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[rodgertutt]

Roger, I agree about "aion" and "aionion," but I think "aidion" is better translated as "imperceptible" rather than "eternal" as it is in the Concordant Version in Romans 1:20 and Jude 1:6. See the attachment.

Thanks for your input Tom.

AIONIOS

Although there are at least fifteen translations that translate aion/aionios literally instead of interpretively, the most popular versions are translated interpretively.

Why did God allow the most popular versions of His written word to be interpretively translated instead of literally translated?

In my opinion the reason is the same reason why God allows all other evils to temporarily prevail, and that is because He is eventually going to make it better for everyone that He did so.

Probably, God could not have allowed a better foil of contrast of evil versus good than to let His written word be mistranslated. Against the black background of the theological false doctrines of never ending suffering or annihilation God will paint His glorious masterpiece of universal transformation using the paint brushes of His love that can never fail, and His grace that cannot be defeated.

WHAT MOST OF THE EARLY CHRISTIANS BELIEVED
And they were reading the Bible in its original language!

Universalism:
The Prevailing Doctrine Of the Christian Church During Its First Five-Hundred Years
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Prevailing.html
And they were reading the Bible in its original language!

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."

Also see what other Greek scholars say about it
An Analytical Study of Words
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter11.html

Fifteen literally translated (not interpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46
Concordant Literal, Young's literal, Wilson's Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham's Emphasized, Scarlett's, J.W. Hanson's New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth's (unedited), Clementson's, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger's Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell's translation (2010).

Regarding the meaning of aionios, Dean Hough, director of THE SAVIOUR OF ALL FELLOWSHIP wrote
"In THE VOCABULARY OF THE GREEK TESTAMENT (edited by James Hope Moulton and George Milligan) Concerning aionios we read, "In general, the word depicts that of which the horizon is not in view . . ." (p.16). If the horizon of the extermination spoken of by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 1:9 is simply not in view, then we can see that what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:22 can truly occur. The same all who are dying in Adam, which includes some who incur eonian extermination, can indeed eventually be vivified in Christ.
The Bible, in fact, does not speak of judgment and condemnation, death and destruction, hades and Gehenna, or any of these serious consequences of sin, as unending. It may refer to them as not having the end in view, but none of these fearful works of God can keep Him from achieving His will (1Tim.2:4); reconciling all through the blood of Christ's cross (Col.1:20, and becoming All in all (1 Cor.15:28).".
Dean Hough

WHAT MOST OF THE EARLY CHRISTIANS BELIEVED
Universalism:
The Prevailing Doctrine Of the Christian Church During Its First Five-Hundred Years
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Prevailing.html
And they were reading the Bible in its original language!

[joeteekay]

Very good post with much valuable insight. I have read those articles on the tentmaker website and gained much from them. I especially like your contrasting  literally translated and not interpretively translated).
:thumbsup:

[rodgertutt]

ALL IN ALL – A.E. Knoch

A.E. Knoch's book ALL IN ALL
Richard Condon's detailed rebuttal of Don Hewey's criticisms of A.E Knoch's ALL IN ALL can be read at
http://www.tentmaker.org/contending.htm
They are the very same arguments Don used against A. C. Thomas and E. H. Lake.                 

Regarding the book ALL IN ALL by A.E. Knoch. In spite of the claim that there are contradictions in it, and in spite of "cult-buster" Don Hewey's other attempts to discredit it, (arguments to which Richard Condon has responded), ALL IN ALL remains, in my opinion, one of the best of all the many books that I have read in support of the Bible teaching universal transformation.

Don Hewey is a believer in the inspiration of the King James Version. When he accuses A.E. Knoch of "contradicting the Bible," in many cases what he really means is that A.E. Knoch contradicts the KJV, because the Concordant Translation does not rely on the Received Text from which the KJV was translated. Don Hewey therefore also attacks the RSV, the NIV, and other modern translations. For this reason much of what Don writes just doesn't make any sense.

As far as Knoch calling the life that Lazarus will be raised to as it being eonian and unending, it is both. Lazarus will have unending life and that life will allow him to live through the oncoming eons which is called '"eonian life."

But even if Don Hewey's criticisms had any merit, (and Richard Condon proves they don't), they would still not detract from the fact that this book proves that the Bible teaches universal salvation, not eternal torment, or even annihilation.

Richard Condon's detailed rebuttal of Don Hewey's criticisms of ALL IN ALL can be read at
http://www.tentmaker.org/contending.htm
They are the very same arguments he used against A. C. Thomas and E. H. Lake.                 

ALL IN ALL by A.E. Knoch (222 pages)
Concordant Publishing Concern
http://www.concordant.org/
The entire book on the subject of the Bible teaching universal salvation can be read here
http://www.lighthouselibrary.com/read.php?sel=2586&searchfor=||KNOCH, ADOLPH E||&type=&what=author

Introduction:
The blood of Christ is the basis of all blessing. The purpose of God determines human destiny. It does not depend on our deserts. The plan or process of God during the eons or ages must be distinguished from His purpose which will not be fully accomplished until the eons are past. Herein lies the difference between the teaching of the Scriptures and the accepted creeds of Christendom.

The believer suffers in the current era because of sin, but will be released in the resurrection at the presence of Christ. The unbeliever will have affliction and anguish for his sins in the judgment, but he also becomes reconciled to God at the consummation, through the blood of Christ's cross. (Col.1-20).

Universal reconciliation is the glorious goal toward which all leads. All of God's purpose is achieved through Him Who is the Alpha and the Omega (Rev.1:8). "In Him the entire complement delights to dwell, and through Him [God delights] to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Col.1:19,20)

[lastpost]

AION – AIONIOS

HOW ETERNITY SLIPPED IN
http://thetencommandmentsministry.us/ministry/free_bible/whence_eternity

In the first three chapters of Ephesians, (a key book regarding God's plan for man relative to the fullness of the times) aion is used seven times. And out of those seven, the KJV has chosen five different English words ("ages," "course," "end," "eternal," and "world.") to translate this one word.

And to add to this confusion, it translates the Greek word genea (generation), a totally different word, twice as "ages."

Talk about confusion compounded!

Is it any wonder the church has been blinded from God's truth about the purpose of His judgments and His eonian plan to save all fallen creatures?!

Simply put, the Scriptures do not take up the philosophical concept of eternity, but rather speak of eons and that which pertains to them. Of course God's glory exceeds the eons, but His glory is reflected by His Son during the eons as they are presented in Scripture.

No two words in the history of man have been so torturing as aion and aionion. No two words in the history of man, mishandled by man, have contributed more to the physical, emotional and spiritual harm of so many, than these. You may think I must be exaggerating. But I am not. It is the mistranslation of these two words that has foisted the false and destructive doctrine of eternal torment upon the church and the world.

Mistranslation of the Greek words "aion" and "aionion" is a master stroke of diabolical genius. No other words erroneously translated, could more effectively pervert man's image of God and cause such widespread confusion. The following work by Joseph E. Kirk is offered in the hope that the serious seeker after scriptural truth will be aided in their quest.
CHART OF GOD'S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html

Also see
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/index.html
(especially note the quotes by the many Greek scholars in chapters three and twelve)

AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html
See the first item under APPENDIX
AIDIOS – AN IMPORTANT WORD CONSIDERED
A SNIPPET FROM THE GREEK WORD AION – AIONIOS TRANSLATED EVERLASTING – ETERNAL IN THE HOLY BIBLE SHOWN TO DENOTE LIMITED DURATION – JOHN WESLEY HANSON

"The word aidios (not aionios) was in universal use among the non-Christian Greek Jews of our Savior's day, to convey the idea of eternal duration, and was used by them to teach endless punishment.

Jesus never allowed himself to use it in connection with punishment, nor did any of His disciples but one, and he but once, and then carefully and expressly limited its meaning. Can demonstration go further than this to show that Jesus carefully avoided the phraseology by which His contemporaries described the doctrine of endless punishment? Jesus never adopted the language of His day on this subject. Their language was aidios timoria, endless torment. His language was aionion kolasin, age-lasting correction. They described unending ruin, He, discipline, resulting in reformation."
AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html
See the first item under APPENDIX
AIDIOS – AN IMPORTANT WORD CONSIDERED

"In THE VOCABULARY OF THE GREEK TESTAMENT (edited by James Hope Moulton and George Milligan) Concerning aionios we read, "In general, the word depicts that of which the horizon is not in view . . ." (p.16). If the horizon of the extermination spoken of by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 1:9 is simply not in view, then we can see that what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:22 can truly occur. The same all who are dying in Adam, which includes some who incur eonian extermination, can indeed eventually be vivified in Christ. The Bible, in fact, does not speak of judgment and condemnation, death and destruction, hades and Gehenna, or any of these serious consequences of sin, as unending. It may refer to them as not having the end in view, but none of these fearful works of God can keep Him from achieving His will (1Tim.2:4); reconciling all through the blood of Christ's cross (Col.1:20, and becoming All in all (1 Cor.15:28).".
Dean Hough

Greetings,

In these two .pdf files I have put hyperlinks to the footnotes, and also return hyperlinks to the place the cursor was clicked. It helps navigating around without losing ones place.

Please fell free to offer to others if you wish [librarian?]...

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/freespirit/Prevailing-Universalism/aion-aionios-rev.hanson.pdf

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/freespirit/Prevailing-Universalism/PrevailingUniversalism.pdf

PEACE

[rodgertutt]

Thanks lastpost.  :thumbsup:

ALL

A snippet from The Inescapable Love of God, Pages 59, 60, by Thomas Talbott:
"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life (Romans 5:18).
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all (Romans 11:32).
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive (I Corinthians 15:22).

In each of these texts, we encounter a contrast between two universal statements, and in each case the first "all" seems to determine the scope of the second. Accordingly, when Paul asserts in Romans 5:18 that Christ's one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all, he evidently has in mind every descendant of Adam who stands under the judgment of condemnation; when he insists in Romans 11:32 that God is merciful to all, he has in mind every human being whom God has "shut up" to, or has "imprisoned" in, disobedience; and finally, when he asserts in I Corinthians 15:22 that "all shall be made alive" in Christ, he has in mind everyone who has died in Adam. The grammatical evidence here seems utterly decisive; you can reject it only if you are prepared to reject what is right before your eyes."

Does "All" mean "All"?
http://hopebeyondhell.org/   

[micah7:9]

http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_how_eternity_slipped_in.htm

[joeteekay]

http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_how_eternity_slipped_in.htm

Thanks for sharing that web site Micah. Very interesting.  :banana:

In that web site mention is made of pleroma, which I believe is an incredible word having to do with God's attribute and plan.

[micah7:9]

http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_how_eternity_slipped_in.htm

Thanks for sharing that web site Micah. Very interesting.  :banana:

In that web site mention is made of pleroma, which I believe is an incredible word having to do with God's attribute and plan.

:thumbsup:

[eaglesway]

Yes, indeed. Pleroma is one of my favorite words in the scripture, right up there with ephipania, musterion, and anakepholaomai :o)

[rodgertutt]

ANATHEMA
http://www.tentmaker.org/Biblematters/condemned.htm

Regarding the word "anathema," I repeat NO other English translation had the nerve to put "eternally" into these phrases in Galatians. Why? Because there is no word in these two sentences that remotely refers to eternity. The NIV translators simply took the liberty of injecting their own beliefs in eternal damnation into this passage without a shred of support from the Greek.
Does the Aramaic word "anathema" carry behind it the idea of people being endlessly tortured and separated from God? In Acts 23:14 a group of Jews put themselves under a curse; they would eat no food until they killed Paul. Do you really think these men, asked to be eternally tortured and estranged from God forever if they failed to kill Paul? Hardly! When Paul wished that he himself was accursed for the sake of his kinsmen after the flesh, do you really think he would allow himself to burn in a Hell forever if it would save his kinsmen? That's ridiculous. Paul taught no such thing. The apostle to the nations, never used any of the words some translations translated Hell.
(Since the writing of this article, it has been pointed out to me, the Amplified Bible has also chosen to put "doomed to eternal punishment" in Galatians 1:8. I repeat, in the Greek text behind this verse there is no word that means "eternal" in this verse. It is added by the translators of these two Bible translations.)


THE MYSTERY OF GOD – Gerard Winstanley
"Christ Jesus will deliver all mankind out of bondage. This I see to be a truth by testimony of Scripture, as God is pleased to teach me. But this mystery of God is not to be done all at once, but in several dispensations, some whereof are past, some are in being, and some are yet to come. The whole creation of mankind, which is God's work, shall be delivered from corruption, bondage, death, and pain. Mankind shall be by Christ reconciled to his Maker and be made one in spirit with Him; i.e. the curse shall be removed, and the power of it killed and consumed.
Truly this is according to the current of the whole Scriptures, that everyone shall be made of one heart and one spirit, i.e. that all shall be brought to obey the Father, walk humbly before Him, and live in peace and love in Him. This is the doctrine of Christ and the gospel. This is glad tidings to hear of. When you are made to enjoy this doctrine as yours, then you shall know what it is to know the Son, and what it is to be set free by the Son."

THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – ANDREW JUKES
The word which in Matt. 25:46 we translate punishment, in its primary sense means 'pruning' and is always used for corrective discipline which is for the improvement of him who suffers it. Even those who hold the common view of the endlessness of punishment are obliged to confess this; and this of itself proves that their doctrine is untenable; for any punishment, be it for a longer or shorter time would not be corrective discipline, but quite another thing if it left those who were so corrected unimproved and lost forever. But from the fall till now the changeless way of the Lord is to make even the curse a blessing."

[Tom]

Bro, I've checked out a lot of versions of scripture, and I finally decided to read the Concordant Version because it doesn't use "eternal" about anything especially "hell," and it doesn't use "hell" either. Some folks don't like the Concordant Version because of the literal language or because they're offended by the author's thoughts about various things, but I think it's the translation that is most accurate at revealing the true meaning of the ancient text even though I realize there is no perfect translation because something is always lost in translation. I have no stock in the Concordant Publishing Concern. I'm just a friend, but I haven't seen another version of scripture yet that has made me want to start using it instead. I'm too burnt-out to try to learn Greek. So I rely on what seems to be the best English translation available. I also use the Interlinear Scripture Analyzer to compare the Concordant Version with the King James Version, Young's Literal Translation, and an ultra-literal translation. I think Young's Literal Translation comes closest to the Concordant Version, but I think the Concordant Version is better. That's just my personal opinion though. So I say check it out for yourself folks. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. The English reads different than your King James, but it's more true to the original manuscripts.

http://concordant.org/online/index.html

[rodgertutt]

I agree Tom -  :iagree:

A Word to the Elect
ANNE BRONTE

You may rejoice to think yourselves secure;
You may be grateful for the gift divine --
That grace unsought, which made your black hearts pure,
And fits your earth-born souls in Heaven to shine.
But, is it sweet to look around, and view
Thousands excluded from that happiness,
Which they deserved, at least, as much as you, --
Their faults not greater, nor their virtues less?

And, wherefore should you love your God the more,
Because to you alone his smiles are given;
Because he chose to pass the many o'er,
And only bring the favoured few to Heaven?

And, wherefore should your hearts more grateful prove,
Because for ALL the Saviour did not die?
Is yours the God of justice and of love
And are your bosoms warm with charity?

Say, does your heart expand to all mankind?
And, would you ever to your neighbour do --
The weak, the strong, the enlightened, and the blind -
As you would have your neighbour do to you?

And, when you, looking on your fellow-men,
Behold them doomed to endless misery,
How can you talk of joy and rapture then? --
May God withhold such cruel joy from me!

That none deserve eternal bliss I know;
Unmerited the grace in mercy given:
But, none shall sink to everlasting woe,
That have not well deserved the wrath of Heaven.

And, Oh! there lives within my heart
A hope, long nursed by me;
(And, should its cheering ray depart,
How dark my soul would be!)

That as in Adam all have died,
In Christ shall all men live;
And ever round his throne abide,
Eternal praise to give.

That even the wicked shall at last
Be fitted for the skies;
And, when their dreadful doom is past,
To life and light arise.

I ask not, how remote the day,
Nor what the sinner's woe,
Before their dross is purged away;
Enough for me, to know

That when the cup of wrath is drained,
The metal purified,
They'll cling to what they once disdained,
And live by Him that died.

[rodgertutt]

SOONER OR LATER GOD ALL IN ALL -  Anthony J. Borrello

"As hostile and objectionable our dear brethren may be, there are answers and explanations for every argument and/or insinuation presented against the undeniable fact, That God indeed is a God 'Who will have all men to be saved, and come into a knowledge of the truth (1Tim. 2:4). As greatly as man and their religious attempt to fight this utterly dynamic evangel (good news), God shall eventually be All in all (1Cor. 15:28)."

"But God is in no hurry. He has specific eons, and administrations within the eons, to fulfill His universal purpose and intention of universal reconciliation. All came out of Christ, including Adam. Consequently all shall be restored by and through Christ, 'yet each in his own class' (1Cor. 15:23)."

When clouds of confusion gather regarding God's plan for mankind, and despair come showering down upon our studies, turn to God's word originally rendered, then, like a searchlight in the darkness of night, His love, and His light of understanding will surely beam forth. God will not allow any to be eternally lost. He is a loving Creator, working out His purpose for the universe, Who will get love from all in return, so that He can and will be 'ALL in all,' to all, 'later.'"

[Deena]

Absolutely beautiful poem. I have had similar thoughts, but not as eloquent. Even vessels of dishonor will be used to reveal the riches of God's grace. No need to worry. This is mankind's future. God will not lose one, and as I have read, all will be brought into the Father's house of love and comfort. With groaning I wait.

[rodgertutt]

APOLLUMI

apollumi, FROM-WHOLE-LOOSE, lose, destroy, perish

The concept of finality is by no means inherent in apollumi. Luke 19:10: "For the Son of Mankind came to seek and to save the apollumi". Romans 9:21, 18:

Mt       2:13   seeking the little Boy to destroy Him."
5:29     that one of your members should perish
          :30     that one of your members should perish 
       8:25      "Lord! Save us! we are perishing!"
      9:17    the wine is spilled, and the wineskins are destroyed
   10:6      yet rather be going to the lost sheep of the house
           :28   able to destroy both the soul and the body in Gehenna
           :39   who is finding his soul will be destroying it, and he who destroys his soul on My account
will be finding it.
           :42    should by no means be losing his wages."
       12:14   so that they should be destroying Him.
       15:24   for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
       16:25   should be wanting to save his soul will be destroying it. Yet whoever should be
         destroying it
       18:14   of these little ones should be perishing.
      21:41   Evilly will he be destroying them.
       22:7      destroys those murderers and 
       26:52   shall be destroyed by the sword.
       27:20   yet should be destroying Jesus.
Mk        1:24   Did you come to destroy us?
         2:22   wine skins will be destroyed---
         3:6      that they should be destroying Him.
        4:38   Carest Thou not that we are perishing?"
         8:35   save his own soul, will be destroying it, yet whoever shall be destroying his soul 
  9:22   into waters, that it should be destroying him
           :41   no means be losing his wages.
       11:18   how they should be destroying Him.
       12: 9     coming and destroying the farmers
Lu       4:34   Did you come to destroy us?
         5:37    wine skins will be destroyed.
         6:9     to save a soul or to destroy?"
         8:24    "Doctor! Doctor! we are perishing!"
         9:24   save his soul shall be destroying it, yet whoever should be destroying his soul
          :25   yet destroying or forfeiting himself.
       11:51   who perished between the altar and the house.
       13:3      you will all be perishing likewise
           :5      you will all be perishing similarly
           :33   that a prophet be destroyed outside
       15:4   sheep, and losing one of them
           :4    after that which is lost,
         :6      my sheep that was lost!"
           :8      if she should be losing one drachma,
           :9     I found the drachma which I lose!'
           :17   yet I am perishing here of famine!
          :24   he was lost and was found.'
          :32   and was lost and was found.' "
      17:27   the deluge came and destroys them all.
           :29   from heaven and destroys them all.
           :33   preserve his soul will be destroying it.
           :33   yet whoever should be destroying it
       19:10   to save that which is lost."
           :47   people sought to destroy Him.
       20:16   be coming and destroying these farmers.
       21:18   your head should by no means perish.
Jn        3:15   Him should not be perishing 
           :16   into Him should not be perishing,
         6:12   that nothing should be lost."
           :27   the food which is perishing,
           :39   these I should be losing none,
       10:10   should be standing and sacrificing and destroying.
           :28   should by no means be destroyed for the eon,
       11:50   nation should not be destroyed."
       12:25   fond of his soul is destroying it,
       17:12   and not one of them was destroyed 
      18: 9      of them I lose not one."
Ac        5:37   and he was destroyed,
Ro        2:12   shall be lost without law.
       14:15   destroying that one for whose sake Christ died.
1C        1:18   to those who are being destroyed,
           :19   be destroying the wisdom of the wise,
         8:11   weak one is being destroyed
       10:9      and were destroyed by serpents.
          :10   and were destroyed by the exterminator,
       15:18   reposing in Christ, were lost
2C        2:15   and in those who are being lost.
         4:3      it is covered in those who are lost,
           :9     cast down but not destroyed
2Th        2:10   injustice among those who are being destroyed.
Hb        1:11   They shall be destroyed, yet Thou art continuing,
Ja       1:11     the comeliness of its aspect was destroyed.
         4:12   is able to save and to destroy.
1P        1:7     than gold which is perishing,
2P        3:6      being deluged by water, was destroyed. 
          :9      not intending any to be destroyed,
2J       8      should be destroying your work
Ju      5      secondly destroys those who believe not.
       11      and they were destroyed in the contradiction of Korah.

[Tom]

Amen, even Sodom and Gomorrah have not been destroyed, or lost, permanently and will even receive more mercy in judgment than those who rejected the evangel.

"As Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them in like manner to these committing ultra-prostitution, and coming away after other flesh, are lying before us, a specimen, experiencing the justice of fire eonian." (Jude 1:7)

"And whosoever should not be receiving you, nor yet be hearing your words, coming outside of that house or city or village, shake off the dust from your feet. Verily, I am saying to you, More tolerable will it be for the land of Sodom and the land of Gomorrah in the day of judging than for that city." (Matthew 10:14,15)

But, regardless of the coming judgment of the unjust, scripture makes it clear that God is the savior of all mankind, and all on earth and in the heavens will be reconciled to God through Christ's blood on the cross.

"For this are we toiling and being reproached, that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers." (1 Timothy 4:10)

"through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Colossians 1:20)

"Yet now Christ has been roused from among the dead, the Firstfruit of those who are reposing. For since, in fact, through a man came death, through a Man, also, comes the resurrection of the dead. For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified. Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence; thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power. For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy is being abolished: death. For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him. Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all." (1 Corinthians 15:20-28)

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ARGUMENTS

I believe that a literally (not interpretively) translated Bible teaches that sooner or later God is going to save everyone from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will.

Everyone will choose to believe whatever they are convinced is the truth about what the Bible teaches.

I'm just so glad that I learned about the following information because it enabled me to recover from a twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78).
I'm 76 years old now.

People who can love an "eternal torment" or "annihilationist" god will not be interested in the following information
Will Jesus Torture Billions Forever?
http://www.godfire.net/eby/circularity.html

But people who cannot love an "eternal torment" or "annihilationist" god will discover that all of the arguments against the Bible teaching universal salvation have been refuted in the following links.

THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD
http://www.godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html

ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
http://www.sigler.org/slagle/absolute.htm

BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
http://www.tentmaker.org/FAQ/index.html

INFORMATION ON HELL AND UNIVERSAL SALVATION
http://www.tentmaker.org/bloglinks.htm

UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY
http://richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm

AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/index.html

THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html

THE SCHOLARS CORNER THE CENTER FOR BIBLE STUDIES IN CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISM
http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html

Also Google up TENTMAKER, and at the top of the front page type a key word or phrase from any argument or scripture passage into the search engine. Ten articles will come up refuting the claim that the Bible teaches eternal torment or annihilation. Then click to the next page and ten more articles will come up, and so on and so on for many pages.
The link to TENTMAKER is
http://www.tentmaker.org/

[rodgertutt]

ARMINIAN BELIEF VERSUS CALVINIST BELIEF VERSUS UNIVERSAL SALVATION BELIEF

ARMINIAN BELIEF - It's as if God says
"Unless you are lucky enough to find out about my Son during this lifetime, and even if you are that lucky, if you don't have the good sense to cooperate with my Son properly before you die, then I am going to raise you from the dead and I will either annihilate you, or sustain you alive in an inescapable state of eternal torment."

Christ's apparent mission: To save from annihilation or eternal torment only those who are lucky enough to hear about Jesus before they die, and also have enough good sense to properly cooperate with Him before they die.

CALVINIST BELIEF - It's as if God says
"Since there is nothing you can do about it because you are totally depraved and you are not one of the elect, it is obvious that I created most of you for the purpose of either annihilating you or letting you suffer eternal torment. However, I am going to unconditionally choose a few of you to go to heaven where you will be happy forever."

Christ's apparent mission: To let everyone be annihilated, or suffer eternal torment except the unconditionally elected few that He rescues by His irresistible grace.

UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION BELIEF (mine) – God says
"Sooner or later, because of what Christ accomplished by His death and resurrection, I am going to save all of you from everything from which you need to be saved, including your stubborn will."

Christ's scriptural mission: 'And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world' (1John 4:14).

I worship a Jesus Who will be completely successful in accomplishing the reason why His Father sent Him.

Christ was prophesied to take away the sin of the world (Jn. 1:29), so how then can a sinless world suffer everlasting punishment?! How absurd! Christ is the Saviour of the world (Jn. 4:42; 1Jn. 4:14), and He will save it!"

[Tom]

http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/partuniv.html

[rodgertutt]

http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/partuniv.html

Thanks for the link Tom.

Augustine and Matthew 25:46
     Augustine gave a couple of reasons why he believed it was in vain that some, indeed very many, in his day, believed there was no eternal punishment:

    "It is quite in vain, then, that some–indeed very many–yield to merely human feelings and deplore the notion of the eternal punishment of the damned and their interminable and perpetual misery. They do not believe that such things will be. Not that they would go counter to divine Scripture–but, yielding to their own human feelings, they soften what seems harsh and give a milder emphasis to statements they believe are meant more to terrify than to express the literal truth. " 'God will not forget,' " they say, " 'to show mercy, nor in his anger will he shut up his mercy.' " This is, in fact, the text of a holy psalm. But there is no doubt that it is to be interpreted to refer to those who are called "vessels of mercy," those who are freed from misery not by their own merits but through God's mercy. Even so, if they suppose that the text applies to all men, there is no ground for them further to suppose that there can be an end for those of whom it is said, " 'Thus these shall go into everlasting punishment.' " Otherwise, it can as well be thought that there will also be an end to the happiness of those of whom the antithesis was said: " 'But the righteous into life eternal.' "
(end quote)
It may be that many of the early believers in Augustine's day did "deplore the notion of eternal punishment" by yielding to "human feelings" and reliance upon God's mercy. But, was Augustine correct to quote Matthew 25:46 to support the notion of "eternal punishment of the damned and their interminable and perpetual misery''? I say No, he was not.
     He is saying that if punishment is temporary then it logically follows that the life for the righteous is temporary as well. But is Matthew 25:31-46 really saying this is about the fate of "damned" vs. the righteous for all eternity? No! This judgment takes place when Christ comes back and sets up His 1000 year kingdom (see also Revelation 20). When Christ comes back (Matt.25:31) He will call the nations to this judgment. They will be judged as to how Christ's brethren were treated. Having faith in Christ or lack thereof is not what they are being judged for. Christ never calls the sheep nations His brothers but He does tell them that they treated His brethren correctly.
     Secondly, the "kolasin aionion" or "chastening eonian" which the goat nations must endure is equal in length to the life (zoe aionion/life eonian) in the kingdom which the sheep nations enjoy. When the 1000 year eon ends, both the chastening of the goat nations and the life of the sheep nations end. Then all must appear before the great white throne. The earth is destroyed and I'm sure that some from both groups of the goat and sheep nations will enter into the lake of fire.
     But this is not their "eternal" lot, for, one day, death, (the second death) which the lake of fire is called, will be abolished, all will be made alive (be vivified or given immortality), subjected to Christ and God will be All in all, not All in some (see 1 Cor.15:22-28).
     Augustine, for all his brilliance, was not given to see certain truths in the Scriptures. While he may have been correct to state that the given psalm was meant to pertain to the vessels of mercy, It is too bad that he did not see the truth of Romans 11:32 how that God should be merciful in the future to those who are enemies to the evangel and stubborn now.
Tony Nungesser
http://www.saviourofall.org/2003Newsletters/42003Augustine.html

[rodgertutt]

From the hard copy UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION  library of Rodger Tutt

BOOKS WITH SPINES (NO STAPLES)

1. REDEMPTION ALL IN ALL – RAY PRINZING
2. ALL IN ALL - A.E. KNOCH
3. THE PROBLEM OF EVIL AND THE JUDGMENTS OF GOD – A.E. KNOCH
4. THE INESCAPABLE LOVE OF GOD – THOMAS TALBOTT
5. A TREATISE ON ATONEMENT – HOSEA BALLOU
6. SALVATOR MUNDI: OR, IS CHRIST THE SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN? – SAMUEL COX
7. GOD'S RULES FOR SCRIPTURAL INTERPRETATION AND MAN'S PLACE IN GOD'S PURPOSE – CHARLES J. PEART
8. THE PURPOSE OF GOD'S WILL – GUY MARKS
9. A CLOUD OF WITNESSES – J.W. HANSON
10. TRUTH AS I SEE IT – W.F. SALTER
11. A SHORT HELP AND INCENTIVE TO AN UNBIASED INQUIRY INTO THE SCRIPTURE TRUTH OF UNIVERSALISM OR THE FINAL RESTORATION OF ALL THINGS – R. ROE
12. THE FIVE SMOOTH STONES OF THE KINGDOM – IRENE LINDSAY
13. TIME AND ETERNITY- G.T. STEVENSON
14. THE DIVINE DESTINY – K. ROSS MCKAY
15. IS HELL ETERNAL? – MIKKEL DAHL AND JON R. WELKER
16. THE DOCTRINE OF ETERNAL TORMENTS OVERTHROWN – THOMAS WHITTEMORE
17. THE GREEK WORD AION – AIONIOS TRANSLATED EVERLASTING – ETERNAL IN THE HOLY BIBLE SHOWN TO DENOTE LIMITED DURATION – JOHN WESLEY HANSON
18. A LETTER OF THE CELEBRATED JOHN FOSTER TO A YOUNG MINISTER ON THE DURATION OF FUTURE PUNISHMENT AND AN EARNEST APPEAL TO THE AMERICAN TRACT SOCIETY IN REGARDS TO THE CHARACTER OF ITS PUBLICATIONS – JOHN FOSTER
19. IS HELL ETERNAL OR WILL GOD'S PLAN FAIL - CHARLES H. PRIDGEON
20. THE GOSPEL FROM OUTER SPACE – ROBERT SHORT
21. THE GREAT REVELATION OR GOD'S LOVE, PURPOSE AND PLAN – JOHN H. PATON
22. AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS – LOUIS ABBOTT
23. DARE WE HOPE THAT ALL MEN BE SAVED – HANS URS VON BALTHASAR
24. GOD'S ULTIMATE – A.E. SAXBY
25. A SPIRITUAL AUTOBIOGRAPHY – WILLIAM BARCLAY
26. THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION – ADLAI LOUDY
27. CHRIST TRIUMPHANT – THOMAS ALLIN
28. THE ANCIENT HISTORY OF UNIVERSALISM – HOSEA BALLOU
29. THE MODERN HISTORY OF UNIVERSALISM – THOMAS WHITTEMORE
30. RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – ANDREW JUKES
31. YOU SAID IT LORD – ALINE TALSMA
32. THOUGHTS ON THE DIVINE GOODNESS RELATIVE TO THE GOVERNMENT OF MORAL AGENTS PARTICULARLY DISPLAYED IN FUTURE REWARDS AND PUNISHMENTS – FERDINAND OLIVER PETITPIERRE
33. HOPE BEYOND HELL – GERRY BEAUCHEMIN
34. AT THE END OF THE AGES THE ABOLITION OF HELL – BOB EVELY
35. THE RESTORATION OF ALL THINGS OR A VINDICATION OF THE GRACE OF GOD TO BE MANIFESTED AT LAST IN THE RECOVERY OF HIS WHOLE CREATION OUT OF THEIR FALL – JEREMIAH WHITE
36. THE GREAT DELVERANCE – GUY MARKS
37. UNION – JAMES RELLY
38. THE UNIVERSAL RESTORATION – ELHANAN WINCHESTER
39. THE JUST JUDGMENT OF GOD – JAMES CORAM
40. GRACIOUS GOSPEL BOOK FOUR – SHERWOOD MICHAEL
41. HOW TO KEEP 0N LIVING – DUSEAN BERKICH
42. THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL – PAUL SIEGVOLCK

BOOKS WITH STAPLES

1. TIME, ETERNITY AND GOD – REDEMPTION'S GLORY – RAY PRINZING
2. THE MAGNITUDE OF REDEMPTION – RAY PRINZING
3. THE INTERPLAY OF GOOD AND EVIL – RAY PRINZING
4. DIVINE INWORKINGS – ALL IN ALL – RAY PRINZING
5. THE UNENDING TRIUMPH OF JESUS CHRIST – ED GREGORY
6. THE TRUE BASIS OF REDEMPTION – A.P. ADAMS
7. THE SAVIOUR OF ALL MANKIND - JOSEPH KIRK, WILLIAM C. REBMANN, DEAN HOUGH, AND JAMES CORAM
8. ETERNAL TORMENT OR UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION – A.E. KNOCH
9. CREATION, REDMPTION AND THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – GEORGE R. HAWTIN
10. EONIAN - EVERLASTING OR AGE-LASTING – GRACE H. TODD
11. THE PROBLEM OF EVIL – JOHN H. ESSEX
12. THE PURPOSE OF GOD – JOHN H. ESSEX
13. THE GREATNESS OF SALVATION – WILLIAM MEALAND
14. GOD JUSTIFIES, VIVIFIES, SAVES AND RECONCILES ALL – E.G. JONES
15. TWO STUDIES ON HEAVEN AND HELL – A.E. KNOCH
16. A RANSOM FOR ALL – E.T. SPRINGETT MOXHAM
17. THE AGES IN THE SCRIPTURES – VLADIMIR GELESNOFF
18. "HELL" – VLADIMIR GELESNOFF
19. "ONE" AND "ALL" – JOHN ESSEX
20. ON THESE THINGS MEDITATE – WILLIAM MEALAND
21. "ETERNAL LIFE" – LOYAL F. HURLEY
22. TORTURING DOUBTS AND EXULTANT FAITH – JAMES CORAM
23. THE GLORY OF THE HAPPY GOD – ARTHUR CHARLES LAMB
24. THE CONCEPT OF CIRCULARITY – JACK E. JACOBSEN
25. GOD'S PERFECT PLAN – AUTHOR UNKNOWN
26. THE CROSS AND THE AGES TO COME – G. CAMPBELL MORGAN
27. NOTES FROM ROMANS 5 – W.H. GRIFFITH THOMAS
28. DEFINITION OF BIBLE TERMS – GEORGE R. HAWTIN
29. HE LIGHTETH EVERY MAN – VIRGENE ANDREWS
30. AGES OR ETERNITY AND THE KING JAMES VERSION – JOHN DOKAS
31. THE PLAN OF REDEMPTION SEEN FROM GOD'S VIEWPOINT – DORA VAN ASSEN
32. DIVINE JUDGMENT - DORA VAN ASSEN
33. GOD'S UNFAILING PLAN REVEALED IN THE EONS – DORA VAN ASSEN
34. THE SPIRIT AND POWER OF ELIJAH – PAUL MUELLER
35. "ASK OF ME OF THINGS TO COME" – K. ROSS MCKAY
36. " MY COUNSEL SHALL STAND" – K. ROSS MCKAY
37. " FOR WHO HATH RESISTED HIS WILL – K. ROSS MCKAY
38. THE GREAT WHITE THRONE – AUTHOR UNKNOWN
39. PROGRESSIVE REVELATION WITHIN THE BIBLE – EARNEST L. MARTIN
40. THE PURPOSE OF EVIL – GUY MARKS
41. THE PLACE OF HUMANITY IN GOD'S PURPOSE – JOHN H. ESSEX
42. A FEW THOUGHTS ON THE SCRIPTURES – G.J. SALTER
43. RESTORATION: THROUGH THE FEAST OF TABERNACLES – CHARLES WELLER
44. THE EONS OF THE BIBLE – JOSEPH E. KIRK
45. OUR CHURCH FATHERS TESTIFY – JACK JACOBSON
46. WHO THEN CAN BE SAVED – KENNETH BRIX
47. BE YE RECONCILED – VIRGENE ANDREWS
48. MY UNEXPECTED DISCOVERY – HANNAH WHITALL SMITH
49. WHENCE ETERNITY? – ALEXANDER THOMSON
50. MUST AION MEAN ETERNAL? – PHILIP SCRANTON
51. TARDY OF HEART TO BELIEVE ALL – F. NEIL POHORLAK
52. MARTIN ZENDER GOES TO HELL – MARTIN ZENDER
53. THE DEPTHS OF GOD WILL RETRIEVE ALL - ANTHONY J. BORRELLO
54. NONE LOST, NONE DESTROYED – ANTHONY J. BORRELLO
55. SOONER OR LATER GOD ALL IN ALL - ANTHONY J. BORRELLO
56. 100 SCRIPTURAL PROOFS THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE SAVIOR OF ALL MANKIND – THOMAS WHITTEMORE
57. A TRUE REVELATION AND A SECOND WITNESS – TRAVIS OGLETREE
58. THE CHRIST OF GLORY – MARVIN W. RICE
59. JUSTIFICATION – DONALD G. HAYTER
60. THE "EVIL" FROM THE LORD – MICHAEL KILLIAN
61. THE FEET MINISTRY – DON BRUCE
62. HELL – J.W. WILLIAMS
63. LIFE FOR ALL - CHARLES W. COTTON
64. UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION – MINNIE ALBERTSON
65. 125 NUTS FOR CALVINISTS TO CRACK – C.R. BIERBOWER
66. ALL AND ALL IN ALL – VINCE HOLLANDER AND HENRY BULLER
67. THE WAY TO SALVATION IN THE CHRISTIAN GOSPEL – ERNEST L. MARTIN
68. THE EARLY VIEW OF THE SAVIOR – GARY AMIRAULT
69. ETERNAL DEATH – ONE STEP OUT OF HELL, ONE STEP SHORT OF GLORY - GARY AMIRAULT
70. THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL – TONY HINKLE
71. THE SECOND DEATH – A.E. SAXBY
72. OVERWHELMING GRACE – JOHN H. ESSEX
73. THE GOSPEL OF GRACE – CHARLES W. WELLER
74. JUSTIFICATION – DONALD G. HAYTER
75. THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – LOYAL F. HURLEY
76. THE GOSPEL – BERT BAUMAN
77. WHAT GOD SAYS CONCERNING HELL – J.F. RODGERS
78. MAN'S FAILURE OR GOD'S SUCCESS – WHICH WILL STAND? – LEE SALISBURY
79. ETERNITY EXPLAINED – LEE SALISBURY
80. JUST WHAT DO YOU MEAN? (SERIES OF13 VOLUMES) J. PRESTON EBY

[rodgertutt]

GRACE OVERWHELMS

What I perceive to be a basic issue.

People who don't think salvation is 100% by God, not just 100% "provided" by God like to be in the hands of their own "free" will. That is where they feel most secure.

IMO, that is the most basic difference between ETers and URs.

Just like in the case of Lydia (whose heart the Lord opened, Acts 16:14) and Saul of Tarsus (Acts 9:1-8), our cooperation to be saved is the result, not the cause, of God laying hold on us by His sovereign grace and causing Jesus to be "choice" in our heart.

The timing of the salvation of everyone is under God's sovereign control.
God arranges everything so each person will be saved according to His perfect timing for each individual.

HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE - James Coram
CHOOSING WHAT IS CHOICE
biblical studies: His Achievement Are We - Part 9 - Choosing What Is Choice
http://concordant.org/expohtml/HisAchievement/HisAchievement009.html
"No one to whom Christ is not yet choice can choose Christ.
And Christ cannot be choice to anyone to whom He has not yet been made choice.
When He is made choice He becomes choice and so is choice; or to say the same thing, He is chosen.
This first act of the believer in which Christ is consciously chosen, is merely a consequence of his new mental preference which has been graciously granted to him by God."

ARMINIAN ET BELIEF - It's as if God says
"Unless you are lucky enough to find out about my son during this lifetime, and even if you are that lucky, if you don't have the good sense to use your "free" will and cooperate with my son properly before you die, then I am going to raise you from the dead and I will sustain you alive in an inescapable state of eternal torment forever."

My advice, don't put your faith in your faith. Your faith may, and probably will be misplaced from time to time, especially if you are having faith in your self.
Put your faith in Jesus Christ instead, because even if He casts you into the lake of fire which is the second death it will achieve the age-during corrective chastisement that He has promised to everyone who needs it.