What if you guys are all wrong about universal salvation?

[lomarah]

His FACE!!! Is BEAUTIFUL!!!  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[sheila]

   AMEN!!!

[eaglesway]

One thing I hav asked of the Lord,
That shall I also seek.
That I may dwell in the house of the Lord
All the days of my life,
To behold the beauty of the Lord
And to meditate in His temple.

His hair was white as refiners wool
And His eyes were like flames of fire
and His face was like the sun shining in its strength
and a two edged sword came out of His mouth.

[eaglesway]

Moon, I just want to mention that it is faith in the Lord Jesus, His sinless life, sacrificial death and victorious resurrection that reconciles us to God by grace, through the blood of the cross. Believing in hell, or in universal reconciliation, does not save or condemn anyone.

Being wrong about a doctrine wouldnt put anyone in hell forever- unless God caredmore about the doctrine of hell than the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith.

"If anyone confess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believes in their heart that God raised Him from the dead, they shall be saved."


"By grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves- it is the gift of God, so one one can boast."

[CHB]

Moon, think about this, if Jesus is the savior of the world and he died for the sins of all mankind, past present and future, what is hell for?
If ET's say for unbelief, does that mean unbelief is a sin, if so, didn't Jesus die for ALL sin?  Where does it say that we will burn forever if we do not believe?

Prove all things hold fast to that which is good.  :2c:   :HeartThrob:

CHB

[lomarah]

One thing I hav asked of the Lord,
That shall I also seek.
That I may dwell in the house of the Lord
All the days of my life,
To behold the beauty of the Lord
And to meditate in His temple.

His hair was white as refiners wool
And His eyes were like flames of fire
and His face was like the sun shining in its strength
and a two edged sword came out of His mouth.

:HeartThrob:  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[dajomaco]

1. What if Satan the angel of light has blinded you to love the world more
than following and believing what God has commanded will happen?

It is not Satan who has blinded us.
God blinded us, he made sure that every one was blind so that he could open every ones eyes.
We would know we were reconciled we could see that we were .
We for the first time in or lives have HOPE.

What if you are simply making God in your image because
you love your own humans more than you love the Lord?

God simply made man in his image and he Loved man so much that he sacrificed
his only son so that he would be reconciled to you.

What if you really can't handle the truth that the sad
fact may be that millions will burn forever?

Well if that is true you should line up those millions and tell them what you did
while you were one of them .To make sure you weren't going to hell.

Tell those millions what you did to save your self and teach them.
Then you will be able to look at the millions burning forever and say I told you so.

Then you can stand next to your Lord and say that they deserve this hell.
Then your Lord can say to you. Yeah they deserve this they were warned.
He looks at you and says YOU DID WARN THEM DIDN'T YOU?

You sheepish look away Then you see he is angry.
You who believe that I would eternally torture my children.
You are the one who deserves hell.

2. What if this is Gods plan?
If you were to die and God revealed to you that there is an eternal hell, will you stop loving God?

What if you found out?
That the worst most blasphemous thought you could have
about Jesus was that he was so much (like you).
That he lied when he called himself Love.

When you stand in heaven and ask God to show you hell and
the people being tortured there, and he says it does not exist .
Will you stop loving God?

3. What if God really is like this?

Then you could be God.

4. What if you end up in hell because you unknowingly led people astray?

What if you end up in Heaven because you knowingly led people astray?

[reFORMer]

Salvation is by grace, unmerited favor.  It is God's free gift and He is no respecter of persons.  It is not of ourselves.  So, how could He give it to you and not everybody else?  You're deceived if you think you deserve it in anyway for anything.  That is not grace.  Maybe you have a false salvation?

[Sweetdreams]

Hi peeps, this is more first post here.
I'm new to this "Jesus saves all" doctrine, and I want to keep moving forward but still have some burning questions, maybe some of you can help me?

1. What if Satan the angel of light has blinded you to love the world more than following and believing what God has commanded will happen? What if you are simply making God in your image because you love your own humans more than you love the Lord? What if you really can't handle the truth that the sad fact may be that millions will burn forever?

If Satan were to blind anyone about anything, it would be to blind people from the Love, Compassion, and Mercy of God. So, I would ask, why has burning people for eternity been the best way Satan has blinded people to the very fact that God is unlimited in Grace ?



2. What if this is Gods plan? If you were to die and God revealed to you that there is an eternal hell, will you stop loving God?

I love God and have Faith that He has a perfect plan, my sinful flesh would rejoice that I was special and got a ' gift ' that other people I felt were less acceptable. But that message of the gospel is ' all have fallen short ' . So there is no sense, other than the sinful flesh to believe anyone is more ' acceptable ' to God.

3. What if God really is like this?

If we take the multiple passage that describe the nature and laws of God, he couldn't possibly be as stingy with Grace and Love as Eternal hell theology teaches.

4. What if you end up in hell because you unknowingly led people astray?

Love and Mercy leads people to God, not away, but eternal torment has damaged so many minds and have caused many more to run from God's love and grace. This is a great tragedy, and a reason to abandon such blasphemous theology.

[marie glen]

How loud will ring the praises of our awesome and loving God on that day when all confess Him and kneel to him in sheer love, gratitude and devotion.  Amen, Maranatha.

There's many very good things I could "quote" from this thread, but this one reaLLy stands out!! :gsmile: :gthumbsup:

I feel like "judgment day" before concluded will be surprise! `awareness of atonement day`!! How joyful!

[marie glen]

Love and Mercy leads people to God, not away, but eternal torment has damaged so many minds and have caused many more to run from God's love and grace. This is a great tragedy, and a reason to abandon such blasphemous theology.

Oh man! :iagree: So Much!!! :gsmile: 

[jbertonbounds]

... no matter how confused I will get I am drawn to this gospel.

You won't be confused for long.  UR makes sense!  Believing the truth of UR brings into focus the BIG picture of God's plan for the Universe.  You will be amazed as things become clearer and clearer.  I am still amazed at God's overall plan and grace.  Our God is an awesome god!!!  He rules!!!  We have seen a great light!!! :dsunny:

[jbertonbounds]

By the way,
WELCOME to TM.
May God bless your search for truth!
NEVER STOP SEARCHING!!!!!!!

[Sweetdreams]

Love and Mercy leads people to God, not away, but eternal torment has damaged so many minds and have caused many more to run from God's love and grace. This is a great tragedy, and a reason to abandon such blasphemous theology.

Oh man! :iagree: So Much!!! :gsmile:

:banana:

[Sweetdreams]

... no matter how confused I will get I am drawn to this gospel.

You won't be confused for long.  UR makes sense!  Believing the truth of UR brings into focus the BIG picture of God's plan for the Universe.  You will be amazed as things become clearer and clearer.  I am still amazed at God's overall plan and grace.  Our God is an awesome god!!!  He rules!!!  We have seen a great light!!! :dsunny:

:goodpost:

[marie glen]

jbertonbounds,

              :gsmile: :gthumbsup: amen, awesome posts!

[jbertonbounds]

Thanks, Marie.  I also posted this on FaceBook, along with a link to Tentmakers.com.

[eaglesway]

This gospel is "the gospel"  :o) glad tidings of great joy for all people


Eph 1:9-11  Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:


2Co 5:18-19  Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,  namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

[lastpost]

Hi peeps, this is more first post here.
I'm new to this "Jesus saves all" doctrine, and I want to keep moving forward but still have some burning questions, maybe some of you can help me?

1. What if Satan the angel of light has blinded you to love the world more than following and believing what God has commanded will happen? What if you are simply making God in your image because you love your own humans more than you love the Lord? What if you really can't handle the truth that the sad fact may be that millions will burn forever?

2. What if this is Gods plan? If you were to die and God revealed to you that there is an eternal hell, will you stop loving God?

3. What if God really is like this?

4. What if you end up in hell because you unknowingly led people astray?

Dear friend, may I say something to you and I hope that you can bear with my generalisations which cannot be avoided without much excessive detail. I speak for myself and not others who may not hold to my details.

I sincerely believe that the Christ of God became the man we call Jesus of Nazareth. He represented Truth in the most accessible form available to man for his redemption - and because of His life and death the tide has been turned forever so that all of humanity shall be saved from himself and the evil that seeks to draw him down, and instead man is raised up with Him in His own good time especially those that believe in Him and seek to follow Him (1 Tim. 4:10).

Jesus revealed truths about a God as yet unknown to man. For myself, Jesus Christ is the Way. I need no other, just Him and in Him only I trust; through Him is the source of Life, He is the perfection of Truth given in a manner that can show man Truth in the way he best understands - the Christ as a man. His teachings, His demeanour and conduct demonstrate a perfect life - the generosity and unswerving altruism He displayed could not have been withheld because pure Love cannot withhold such qualities - and He was Love Incarnate, of this I have no doubt.

It is recorded in the Bible in words that God is Love, but we underrate Divine Love. I understand that Jesus was the manifestation of the purest Divine Soul as a man - yes, a man like any man or woman or child - except He was the only human being ever born with a pure Soul. Like man - and yet unlike man. The majesty of Divinity and yet the humbleness of the Babe born amongst animals, humility and Holiness manifesting in one man - unique and unparalleled - the Christ of God made man. And man can never say that God does not know what it is like to be a human being.

Friend, may I put it to you that mankind, in the past - and today - anthropomorphises God. Man, in his ignorance assumes his God is like himself and the lesser self he displays. Man attributes to his God the anger, hatred and desire for revenge he himself feels - the audacity and conceitedness of it all: that the Creator of all life should act like a raving aggressive possessed man whose temper is so utterly vile that billions of sentient beings must be tortured in the most despicable way forever and forever! What foolishness, what hideousness that the mind of man should allow the evil shadows to portray such a perverted deviation of Divine Love!

And why subject feeling beings with loving hearts to an eternal punishment? Because they held a different belief in the mind about the Saviour to the belief held in the mind of another? Because a word translated into another language from a past culture should mean one thing to one and another thing to another? Both see some of the beauty in the Saviour, both hold Him to be at least God's Messenger if not His Incarnation.

Think again friend. Is it not the fears in oneself that causes man to create such a monstrous dogma and seek to perpetuate it in one form or another? Think again friend - the difference in a belief of the mind can send one man to an everlasting hell without end and another man to an eternal Paradise? No, it is not credible once Divine Love is brought into the arena, not credible in the slightest - when the God who is Love is remembered then such a notion of the enending infliction of sadistic pain on innocent souls reveals the underlying evil that has buried its way into the depths of the dogma so that it has taken the place of truth in the minds of many generations.

A good mother would not even contemplate such a thing for her children, the thought could not even arise in her mind - and remember that the Saviour claimed to be like a Mother surrounding her little ones with her wings.

Now do not mistake me friend, God is Love, as we have heard, and therefore His laws are made out of Love. And those who break those laws shall build up a debt of sickness in their souls which must be accounted for.

Please do not be deceived as to this, there is no circumvention of the laws of retribution when Divine Law is broken, and one who has never known the touch of remorse should be pitied indeed, for his debt will be great: 'he who is filthy let him be filthy still' when his account is rendered, and then the painful pruning begins as a natural consequence of redemptive laws 'until that debt be paid' - and paid in full - and no words can portray what awaits those who have actively taken pleasure in wreaking pain upon others - 'outer darkness' does not even begin to describe their reckoning. But this is not God's will - if the human will was used as it was meant to be used it would never have transgressed the laws of Love and Life. Only those who do not break such laws - by following the Master - do not have such a debt.

The word unconditional is bandied about in regard to God's Love. Man in his own conceit cannot attribute to the Supreme Being a Divine Love which is pure and which therefore could never be withheld - it is not easy for man to understand that Love can only give Love and give Love again - although, in degree, it is easier to fathom since Christ Jesus has been amongst us, but was nigh impossible before His coming.

And what does God really want? It is for His child to turn to Him and love Him with all the heart, all the soul, all the mind, and all the strength - a Commandment of which, along with another, Christ said there was no greater and upon which hang all the Law - mark you that friend. That is what the God who is Love desires and anyone who truly loves others can enter into this understanding.

Love or Christ - is the Great Instructor - Christ without and Christ within. And from there, my friend, may I humbly recommend that you seek instruction for answers to your questions.

Christ, through whom was wrought all creation, became man and demonstrated in visible form the invisible Divinity (Col. 1:15). Christ came to be judged - to be judged by me, by you, by everyone - so that the blind might see. Judged: Is my God worth following? Is He worthy of being my God?

Ah, yes, it is true but hardly comprehendible by man - the exquisite humility shown by Divinity - man is so unused to such an unthinkable possibility; man with his desire to be the best, to outdo others, to display his success in worldly matters, to wear his power and position in outward display - man cannot comprehend his God submitting Himself before His own creation for judgment! Indeed, how painful for those who love Him to consider - my friend, when His love burns in you, you will know the truth.

God waits and waits and waits through 'all the generations of the aeons of the Aeon' (τὰς γενεὰς τοῦ αἰῶνος τῶν αἰώνων Eph.3:21), and there will be a time when each and everyone shall say: "Yes, I adore you my God, I lay prostrate at your Feet, I submit my whole being to your service forever and forever, I beg you to send me your will, send me the courage and wisdom and gifts to carry out that will, let me serve Thee now and forever my God, my Everything, my All!".

And that time, my friend, is the time that every knee shall bend in true adoration and recognition of the Lord of man and angels and all life in every state of being in existence, when evil shall have been vanquished from the hearts, minds and souls of His children. And that time is written clearly in the Bible.

[dajomaco]

 :iagree:
With a post like that why would we need another.

[misszoolander]

Hi peeps, this is more first post here.
I'm new to this "Jesus saves all" doctrine, and I want to keep moving forward but still have some burning questions, maybe some of you can help me?

1. What if Satan the angel of light has blinded you to love the world more than following and believing what God has commanded will happen? What if you are simply making God in your image because you love your own humans more than you love the Lord? What if you really can't handle the truth that the sad fact may be that millions will burn forever?

2. What if this is Gods plan? If you were to die and God revealed to you that there is an eternal hell, will you stop loving God?

3. What if God really is like this?

4. What if you end up in hell because you unknowingly led people astray?

Dear friend, may I say something to you and I hope that you can bear with my generalisations which cannot be avoided without much excessive detail. I speak for myself and not others who may not hold to my details.

I sincerely believe that the Christ of God became the man we call Jesus of Nazareth. He represented Truth in the most accessible form available to man for his redemption - and because of His life and death the tide has been turned forever so that all of humanity shall be saved from himself and the evil that seeks to draw him down, and instead man is raised up with Him in His own good time especially those that believe in Him and seek to follow Him (1 Tim. 4:10).

Jesus revealed truths about a God as yet unknown to man. For myself, Jesus Christ is the Way. I need no other, just Him and in Him only I trust; through Him is the source of Life, He is the perfection of Truth given in a manner that can show man Truth in the way he best understands - the Christ as a man. His teachings, His demeanour and conduct demonstrate a perfect life - the generosity and unswerving altruism He displayed could not have been withheld because pure Love cannot withhold such qualities - and He was Love Incarnate, of this I have no doubt.

It is recorded in the Bible in words that God is Love, but we underrate Divine Love. I understand that Jesus was the manifestation of the purest Divine Soul as a man - yes, a man like any man or woman or child - except He was the only human being ever born with a pure Soul. Like man - and yet unlike man. The majesty of Divinity and yet the humbleness of the Babe born amongst animals, humility and Holiness manifesting in one man - unique and unparalleled - the Christ of God made man. And man can never say that God does not know what it is like to be a human being.

Friend, may I put it to you that mankind, in the past - and today - anthropomorphises God. Man, in his ignorance assumes his God is like himself and the lesser self he displays. Man attributes to his God the anger, hatred and desire for revenge he himself feels - the audacity and conceitedness of it all: that the Creator of all life should act like a raving aggressive possessed man whose temper is so utterly vile that billions of sentient beings must be tortured in the most despicable way forever and forever! What foolishness, what hideousness that the mind of man should allow the evil shadows to portray such a perverted deviation of Divine Love!

And why subject feeling beings with loving hearts to an eternal punishment? Because they held a different belief in the mind about the Saviour to the belief held in the mind of another? Because a word translated into another language from a past culture should mean one thing to one and another thing to another? Both see some of the beauty in the Saviour, both hold Him to be at least God's Messenger if not His Incarnation.

Think again friend. Is it not the fears in oneself that causes man to create such a monstrous dogma and seek to perpetuate it in one form or another? Think again friend - the difference in a belief of the mind can send one man to an everlasting hell without end and another man to an eternal Paradise? No, it is not credible once Divine Love is brought into the arena, not credible in the slightest - when the God who is Love is remembered then such a notion of the enending infliction of sadistic pain on innocent souls reveals the underlying evil that has buried its way into the depths of the dogma so that it has taken the place of truth in the minds of many generations.

A good mother would not even contemplate such a thing for her children, the thought could not even arise in her mind - and remember that the Saviour claimed to be like a Mother surrounding her little ones with her wings.

Now do not mistake me friend, God is Love, as we have heard, and therefore His laws are made out of Love. And those who break those laws shall build up a debt of sickness in their souls which must be accounted for.

Please do not be deceived as to this, there is no circumvention of the laws of retribution when Divine Law is broken, and one who has never known the touch of remorse should be pitied indeed, for his debt will be great: 'he who is filthy let him be filthy still' when his account is rendered, and then the painful pruning begins as a natural consequence of redemptive laws 'until that debt be paid' - and paid in full - and no words can portray what awaits those who have actively taken pleasure in wreaking pain upon others - 'outer darkness' does not even begin to describe their reckoning. But this is not God's will - if the human will was used as it was meant to be used it would never have transgressed the laws of Love and Life. Only those who do not break such laws - by following the Master - do not have such a debt.

The word unconditional is bandied about in regard to God's Love. Man in his own conceit cannot attribute to the Supreme Being a Divine Love which is pure and which therefore could never be withheld - it is not easy for man to understand that Love can only give Love and give Love again - although, in degree, it is easier to fathom since Christ Jesus has been amongst us, but was nigh impossible before His coming.

And what does God really want? It is for His child to turn to Him and love Him with all the heart, all the soul, all the mind, and all the strength - a Commandment of which, along with another, Christ said there was no greater and upon which hang all the Law - mark you that friend. That is what the God who is Love desires and anyone who truly loves others can enter into this understanding.

Love or Christ - is the Great Instructor - Christ without and Christ within. And from there, my friend, may I humbly recommend that you seek instruction for answers to your questions.

Christ, through whom was wrought all creation, became man and demonstrated in visible form the invisible Divinity (Col. 1:15). Christ came to be judged - to be judged by me, by you, by everyone - so that the blind might see. Judged: Is my God worth following? Is He worthy of being my God?

Ah, yes, it is true but hardly comprehendible by man - the exquisite humility shown by Divinity - man is so unused to such an unthinkable possibility; man with his desire to be the best, to outdo others, to display his success in worldly matters, to wear his power and position in outward display - man cannot comprehend his God submitting Himself before His own creation for judgment! Indeed, how painful for those who love Him to consider - my friend, when His love burns in you, you will know the truth.

God waits and waits and waits through 'all the generations of the aeons of the Aeon' (τὰς γενεὰς τοῦ αἰῶνος τῶν αἰώνων Eph.3:21), and there will be a time when each and everyone shall say: "Yes, I adore you my God, I lay prostrate at your Feet, I submit my whole being to your service forever and forever, I beg you to send me your will, send me the courage and wisdom and gifts to carry out that will, let me serve Thee now and forever my God, my Everything, my All!".

And that time, my friend, is the time that every knee shall bend in true adoration and recognition of the Lord of man and angels and all life in every state of being in existence, when evil shall have been vanquished from the hearts, minds and souls of His children. And that time is written clearly in the Bible.

What an amazing post!  :dsunny: :URWelcome: :HeartThrob:

[Jock]

Hi Moon

It's OK to have questions and air them so that you can know the truth as the Spirit speaks to you about these things. The Lord has redeemed us all because He made us all, good and bad.

We are all unique, have different DNA and the  scriptures bear out that He loves all of His creation. The love I have for God actually comes from Him, otherwise my human love would not measure up. Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father, He has a plan to purify us by fire but that fire is NOT Hell. It is a fire than cleanses all so that all of mankind :Peace2: will truly be, a new creation.

Bless you

Jock.

[mplsfitter539]

moon7171: 4. What if you end up in hell because you unknowingly led people astray? No one can end up in hell because there is no such place.

[Jock]

Moon

The Holy Spirit leads us into all truth. He doesn't represent the Father as a monster, only men do that

[jbertonbounds]

Moon,
I noticed you have not posted lately.
I hope you're still with us.
If so, stay with us, hang in there, and don't give up.
KEEP SEARCHING!
That is what the Father wants you to do!
The seekers are the ones to whom the Father reveals his secrets!
JBerton