SNIPPETS FROM THE HARD COPY UR LIBRARY OF RODGER TUTT

[rodgertutt]

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #9

If you cannot love an eternal torment god

For the first 500 years after Christ, universalism was the prevailing doctrine believed and taught by the Christian church.

Universalism The Prevailing Doctrine Of The Christian Church During Its First Five Hundred Years
http://hellbusters.8m.com/updcontents.html

The author, J.W. Hanson wrote "The purpose of this book is to present the evidence of the prevalence in the early centuries of the Christian church, of the doctrine of the final holiness of all mankind. The author believes that the following pages show that Universal Restitution was the faith of the early Christians for at least the First Five Hundred Years of the Christian era. He has aimed to present irrefragable proofs that the doctrine of Universal Salvation was the prevalent sentiment of the primitive Christian church.

The salient statements and facts in all which will be found in these pages show that the most and ablest of the early fathers found the deliverance of all mankind from sin and sorrow specifically revealed in the Christian Scriptures."

And they were reading the Bible in its original language!

TRACING UNIVERSALIST THOUGHT THROUGH CHURCH HISTORY
Well known Christian church leaders who believed and taught Biblical universalism.
Including a link to a separate list of famous people embracing Christian universalism.
http://www.tentmaker.org/tracts/Universalists.html   

THE WRITINGS OF DOZENS OF TEACHERS OF CHRISTIAN BIBLICAL UNIVERSALISM

THE MAIN LIBRARY AND IN THE GARDEN
http://web.archive.org/web/20110713224225/http://gtft.org/

TWO TREASURE HOUSES OF CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALIST ARTICLES
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/articles2.html
http://tgulcm.tripod.com/cu/univart.html

[rodgertutt]

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #10

CONSEQUENCES OF THE ETERNAL TORMENT DOCTRINE

I'm 74 years old. The idea that God lets anyone suffer forever has caused me more suffering, including a twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78, than all the other sufferings of my life combined.

This suffering was caused by the fear produced by not being able to love a god who would let anyone suffer forever and wondering what this god would do to me for not being able to love him. Even though I was and am trusting for my salvation in what Jesus accomplished by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross, I was, and still am unable to love a god who would let anyone suffer forever. Here are testimonies similar to mine.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/hells_fruit.html 

http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/consequences.html   

If you are like me and cannot love a god who would let anyone suffer forever, you can copy and paste (if necessary) the following urls into the address bar and find out that a literally (not interpretively) translated Bible actually teaches universal salvation, not even annihilation.

Copy and paste into Google
THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES – J. Preston Eby
If necessary, copy and paste the following urls into the address bar.
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/circularity.htm 

At the top and bottom of that same THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD page, there is the following link to fourteen other writings in the same series that deal with the many aspects of this same subject.
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/index.htm

[rodgertutt]

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #11

The meaning of words that have been translated as "eternal", "forever", "incurable" in the scriptures

Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude
7)--until--God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom"
Ez. 16:53-55).

Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jer.
30:12)-until--the Lord "will restore health" and heal
her wounds (Jer. 30:17).

The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Mic. 1:9)-until--
Lord "will restore ... the fortunes of Samaria." (Ez.
16:53).

An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the
Lord's congregation "forever"-until--the tenth
generation (Deut. 23:3):

Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were
"everlasting", that is -until-- they "were shattered"
Hab. 3 3:6).

The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting"
priesthood (Ex. 40:15), that is-until-it was
superseded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Hebrews
7:14-18).

Many translations of the Bible inform us that God
would dwell in Solomon's Temple "forever" (1 Kings
8:13), that is,--until the Temple was destroyed.

The Law of Moses was to be an "everlasting covenant"
(Leviticus 24:8) yet we read in the New Covenant the
first was "done away" and "abolished" (2 Corinthians
3:11,13), and God "made the first old" (Hebrews 8:13).

God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah
"forever"-until--the Lord delivers him from the large
fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6,10; 1: 17);

Egypt and Elam will "rise no more" (Jer.
25:27)-until--the Lord will "restore the fortunes of
Egypt" (Ez. 29:14) and "restore the fortunes of Elam"
(Jer. 49:39).

"Moab is destroyed" (Jer. 48:4, 42)-until--the Lord
"will restore the fortunes of Moab" (Jer. 48:47).

Israel's judgment lasts "forever"-until--the Spirit is
poured out and God restores it (Isa. 32:13-15).

So, narrow is the way to life and few find it-until--
His church confiscates the "strong man's" booty,
setting the captives free so God becomes all in all
(Isa. 61, Luke 11:21-22, Matt. 7:13; 16:18, 1 Cor.
15:24-28).

The King James Bible, as well as many others, tells us
that a bondslave was to serve his master "forever"
(Exodus 21:6), that is,--until--his death.

[rodgertutt]

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #12

Authors from the hard copy UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION library of Rodger Tutt

BOOKS WITH SPINES (NO STAPLES)

1. REDEMPTION ALL IN ALL – RAY PRINZING
2. ALL IN ALL - A.E. KNOCH
3. THE PROBLEM OF EVIL AND THE JUDGMENTS OF GOD – A.E. KNOCH
4. THE INESCAPABLE LOVE OF GOD – THOMAS TALBOTT
5. A TREATISE ON ATONEMENT – HOSEA BALLOU
6. SALVATOR MUNDI: OR, IS CHRIST THE SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN? – SAMUEL COX
7. GOD'S RULES FOR SCRIPTURAL INTERPRETATION AND MAN'S PLACE IN GOD'S PURPOSE – CHARLES J. PEART
8. THE PURPOSE OF GOD'S WILL – GUY MARKS
9. A CLOUD OF WITNESSES – J.W. HANSON
10. TRUTH AS I SEE IT – W.F. SALTER
11. A SHORT HELP AND INCENTIVE TO AN UNBIASED INQUIRY INTO THE SCRIPTURE TRUTH OF UNIVERSALISM OR THE FINAL RESTORATION OF ALL THINGS – R. ROE
12. THE FIVE SMOOTH STONES OF THE KINGDOM – IRENE LINDSAY
13. TIME AND ETERNITY- G.T. STEVENSON
14. THE DIVINE DESTINY – K. ROSS MCKAY
15. IS HELL ETERNAL? – MIKKEL DAHL AND JON R. WELKER
16. THE DOCTRINE OF ETERNAL TORMENTS OVERTHROWN – THOMAS WHITTEMORE
17. THE GREEK WORD AION – AIONIOS TRANSLATED EVERLASTING – ETERNAL IN THE HOLY BIBLE SHOWN TO DENOTE LIMITED DURATION – JOHN WESLEY HANSON
18. A LETTER OF THE CELEBRATED JOHN FOSTER TO A YOUNG MINISTER ON THE DURATION OF FUTURE PUNISHMENT AND AN EARNEST APPEAL TO THE AMERICAN TRACT SOCIETY IN REGARDS TO THE CHARACTER OF ITS PUBLICATIONS – JOHN FOSTER
19. IS HELL ETERNAL OR WILL GOD'S PLAN FAIL - CHARLES H. PRIDGEON
20. THE GOSPEL FROM OUTER SPACE – ROBERT SHORT
21. THE GREAT REVELATION OR GOD'S LOVE, PURPOSE AND PLAN – JOHN H. PATON
22. AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS – LOUIS ABBOTT
23. DARE WE HOPE THAT ALL MEN BE SAVED – HANS URS VON BALTHASAR
24. GOD'S ULTIMATE – A.E. SAXBY
25. A SPIRITUAL AUTOBIOGRAPHY – WILLIAM BARCLAY
26. THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION – ADLAI LOUDY
27. CHRIST TRIUMPHANT – THOMAS ALLIN
28. THE ANCIENT HISTORY OF UNIVERSALISM – HOSEA BALLOU
29. THE MODERN HISTORY OF UNIVERSALISM – THOMAS WHITTEMORE
30. RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – ANDREW JUKES
31. YOU SAID IT LORD – ALINE TALSMA
32. THOUGHTS ON THE DIVINE GOODNESS RELATIVE TO THE GOVERNMENT OF MORAL AGENTS PARTICULARLY DISPLAYED IN FUTURE REWARDS AND PUNISHMENTS – FERDINAND OLIVER PETITPIERRE
33. HOPE BEYOND HELL – GERRY BEAUCHEMIN
34. AT THE END OF THE AGES THE ABOLITION OF HELL – BOB EVELY
35. THE RESTORATION OF ALL THINGS OR A VINDICATION OF THE GRACE OF GOD TO BE MANIFESTED AT LAST IN THE RECOVERY OF HIS WHOLE CREATION OUT OF THEIR FALL – JEREMIAH WHITE
36. THE GREAT DELVERANCE – GUY MARKS
37. UNION – JAMES RELLY
38. THE UNIVERSAL RESTORATION – ELHANAN WINCHESTER
39. THE JUST JUDGMENT OF GOD – JAMES CORAM
40. GRACIOUS GOSPEL BOOK FOUR – SHERWOOD MICHAEL
41. HOW TO KEEP 0N LIVING – DUSEAN BERKICH
42. THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL – PAUL SIEGVOLCK

BOOKS WITH STAPLES

1. TIME, ETERNITY AND GOD – REDEMPTION'S GLORY – RAY PRINZING
2. THE MAGNITUDE OF REDEMPTION – RAY PRINZING
3. THE INTERPLAY OF GOOD AND EVIL – RAY PRINZING
4. DIVINE INWORKINGS – ALL IN ALL – RAY PRINZING
5. THE UNENDING TRIUMPH OF JESUS CHRIST – ED GREGORY
6. THE TRUE BASIS OF REDEMPTION – A.P. ADAMS
7. THE SAVIOUR OF ALL MANKIND - JOSEPH KIRK, WILLIAM C. REBMANN, DEAN HOUGH, AND JAMES CORAM
8. ETERNAL TORMENT OR UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION – A.E. KNOCH
9. CREATION, REDMPTION AND THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – GEORGE R. HAWTIN
10. EONIAN - EVERLASTING OR AGE-LASTING – GRACE H. TODD
11. THE PROBLEM OF EVIL – JOHN H. ESSEX
12. THE PURPOSE OF GOD – JOHN H. ESSEX
13. THE GREATNESS OF SALVATION – WILLIAM MEALAND
14. GOD JUSTIFIES, VIVIFIES, SAVES AND RECONCILES ALL – E.G. JONES
15. TWO STUDIES ON HEAVEN AND HELL – A.E. KNOCH
16. A RANSOM FOR ALL – E.T. SPRINGETT MOXHAM
17. THE AGES IN THE SCRIPTURES – VLADIMIR GELESNOFF
18. "HELL" – VLADIMIR GELESNOFF
19. "ONE" AND "ALL" – JOHN ESSEX
20. ON THESE THINGS MEDITATE – WILLIAM MEALAND
21. "ETERNAL LIFE" – LOYAL F. HURLEY
22. TORTURING DOUBTS AND EXULTANT FAITH – JAMES CORAM
23. THE GLORY OF THE HAPPY GOD – ARTHUR CHARLES LAMB
24. THE CONCEPT OF CIRCULARITY – JACK E. JACOBSEN
25. GOD'S PERFECT PLAN – AUTHOR UNKNOWN
26. THE CROSS AND THE AGES TO COME – G. CAMPBELL MORGAN
27. NOTES FROM ROMANS 5 – W.H. GRIFFITH THOMAS
28. DEFINITION OF BIBLE TERMS – GEORGE R. HAWTIN
29. HE LIGHTETH EVERY MAN – VIRGENE ANDREWS
30. AGES OR ETERNITY AND THE KING JAMES VERSION – JOHN DOKAS
31. THE PLAN OF REDEMPTION SEEN FROM GOD'S VIEWPOINT – DORA VAN ASSEN
32. DIVINE JUDGMENT - DORA VAN ASSEN
33. GOD'S UNFAILING PLAN REVEALED IN THE EONS – DORA VAN ASSEN
34. THE SPIRIT AND POWER OF ELIJAH – PAUL MUELLER
35. "ASK OF ME OF THINGS TO COME" – K. ROSS MCKAY
36. " MY COUNSEL SHALL STAND" – K. ROSS MCKAY
37. " FOR WHO HATH RESISTED HIS WILL – K. ROSS MCKAY
38. THE GREAT WHITE THRONE – AUTHOR UNKNOWN
39. PROGRESSIVE REVELATION WITHIN THE BIBLE – EARNEST L. MARTIN
40. THE PURPOSE OF EVIL – GUY MARKS
41. THE PLACE OF HUMANITY IN GOD'S PURPOSE – JOHN H. ESSEX
42. A FEW THOUGHTS ON THE SCRIPTURES – G.J. SALTER
43. RESTORATION: THROUGH THE FEAST OF TABERNACLES – CHARLES WELLER
44. THE EONS OF THE BIBLE – JOSEPH E. KIRK
45. OUR CHURCH FATHERS TESTIFY – JACK JACOBSON
46. WHO THEN CAN BE SAVED – KENNETH BRIX
47. BE YE RECONCILED – VIRGENE ANDREWS
48. MY UNEXPECTED DISCOVERY – HANNAH WHITALL SMITH
49. WHENCE ETERNITY? – ALEXANDER THOMSON
50. MUST AION MEAN ETERNAL? – PHILIP SCRANTON
51. TARDY OF HEART TO BELIEVE ALL – F. NEIL POHORLAK
52. MARTIN ZENDER GOES TO HELL – MARTIN ZENDER
53. THE DEPTHS OF GOD WILL RETRIEVE ALL - ANTHONY J. BORRELLO
54. NONE LOST, NONE DESTROYED – ANTHONY J. BORRELLO
55. SOONER OR LATER GOD ALL IN ALL - ANTHONY J. BORRELLO
56. 100 SCRIPTURAL PROOFS THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE SAVIOR OF ALL MANKIND – THOMAS WHITTEMORE
57. A TRUE REVELATION AND A SECOND WITNESS – TRAVIS OGLETREE
58. THE CHRIST OF GLORY – MARVIN W. RICE
59. JUSTIFICATION – DONALD G. HAYTER
60. THE "EVIL" FROM THE LORD – MICHAEL KILLIAN
61. THE FEET MINISTRY – DON BRUCE
62. HELL – J.W. WILLIAMS
63. LIFE FOR ALL - CHARLES W. COTTON
64. UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION – MINNIE ALBERTSON
65. 125 NUTS FOR CALVINISTS TO CRACK – C.R. BIERBOWER
66. ALL AND ALL IN ALL – VINCE HOLLANDER AND HENRY BULLER
67. THE WAY TO SALVATION IN THE CHRISTIAN GOSPEL – ERNEST L. MARTIN
68. THE EARLY VIEW OF THE SAVIOR – GARY AMIRAULT
69. ETERNAL DEATH – ONE STEP OUT OF HELL, ONE STEP SHORT OF GLORY - GARY AMIRAULT
70. THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL – TONY HINKLE
71. THE SECOND DEATH – A.E. SAXBY
72. OVERWHELMING GRACE – JOHN H. ESSEX
73. THE GOSPEL OF GRACE – CHARLES W. WELLER
74. JUSTIFICATION – DONALD G. HAYTER
75. THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – LOYAL F. HURLEY
76. THE GOSPEL – BERT BAUMAN
77. WHAT GOD SAYS CONCERNING HELL – J.F. RODGERS
78. MAN'S FAILURE OR GOD'S SUCCESS – WHICH WILL STAND? – LEE SALISBURY
79. ETERNITY EXPLAINED – LEE SALISBURY
80. JUST WHAT DO YOU MEAN? (SERIES OF13 VOLUMES) J. PRESTON EBY

[rodgertutt]

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #13

Fear
by Walter Lanyon

Fear can manifest only because of a belief in separation. As long as you are something apart from God you will experience, in one form or another, fear. It is subtle and hidden like a poisonous serpent coiled in the grass, liable to strike at any time--at the most unguarded moment, when least expected.
Its only power is given to it by thought, and it can be swollen by thought from a serpent into a dragon. All thoughts of evil are like toy balloons in that they are enlarged until finally the capacity is overtaxed and they burst. Sooner or later a fear will explode itself, however much or little damage it has done.
The panacea for all fear is your union with God.
The moment you are separated from ME and wander into the thought world (the vacuum of separation), you are subject to the laws of fear. The one who is filled with fear sees the ''ten thousand fall at your right hand,'' and is so convinced of the reality and power of evil that he fails to notice the one who passes through unscathed.
''Stand and see the salvation of the Lord'' has a definite, positive value to you NOW. For you are beginning to sense-see the power of being one instead of two. You are beginning to appropriate the instantaneous relief felt from this ONENESS.
This sudden appropriation of ONENESS is accompanied by the consciousness of how to eliminate the object of, or the belief in, fear. There are different ''cities'' of refuge into which you may run for every differing degree of fear; yet all are the same God. This ''running'' into God is not as symbolical as it appears. It is an actual fusing of you with the Father within you, and from that moment you are a majority, and you will know the NOTHINGNESS of the fear belief.
We arrive finally at the point, which is so full of the acceptance of God that it can and does say, ''Even if You slay me, yet I will say You are God''---and the last stand is taken. Even if You slay me---yet will I acknowledge this One and Only Power.
http://www.interiorcoveringsministry.org/pages.asp?pageid=37154 

[marie glen]

Yes, that is how I see it too, thru the glass darkly of course. Three peaks or three streams of the second advent.

the LOF, i my opinion, is being suspended in overwhelming light, in the presence of God( it is written the devil and his angels will be punished "in the presence of God ad His holy angels").

God is light. Light is fire to darkness. The fire is God's all consuming love. God is love. Our God is a consuming fire. Every man will be salted with fire, every sacrifice seasoned with salt.

Every thing hidden in darkness will be brought to light.

If we walk in the light as He is in the light we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin.

Confess your faults one to another and pray for one another that you may be healed.

He that hides his transgression will not prosper, he that confesses and forsakes his sin will obtain mercy.

If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrigteousness.

John preached and they were baptized in the Jordan, "confessing their sins."

Every one will "come clean" eventually- every man will salted with fire. Some now, some in the ages to come.Every knee shall bow, every tongue confess, every heart be broken/pierced, every spirit made contrite.

The blood will cover all, reconcile all, cleanse all.

The veil of Adam's guilt and shame(hiding from the face/presence) will be gone from all, God will be all in all, all will be forgiven- all set free....GLORY!

Amen, very :goodpost:

We're not told much about the ages to come.. simply Millenium, 2nd resurrection and White Throne Judgment, and then, praise and glory :dsunny: :angelharp: when ALL things are made new and God Himself comes to the planet to abide with mankind.. I can't help thinking how sometime within all that, once someone, previously not believing, comes to the knowing of the True God and His True character and personality, mercy, kindness and well, source of every good thing they ever knew or experienced,and that He is all love everywhere that's ever been and all love they themself have ever felt, all love - that's Him! ..how can one help but come to love Him!!? In the ages to come we will find it is impossible not to love, Love/Him.

[marie glen]

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #12

Authors from the hard copy UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION library of Rodger Tutt

BOOKS WITH SPINES (NO STAPLES)

42 books!

BOOKS WITH STAPLES

80 books!

It sure is good to know there are so many books, articles and authors in support of a loving God of UR!!  :Book: :trampoline:

[marie glen]

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #11

The meaning of words that have been translated as "eternal", "forever", "incurable" in the scriptures

Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude
7)--until--God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom"
16:53-55).

I never knew that! Ezekiel, for some reason is a book of the Bible I've not often read and I'm not even sure if I've read all of!


    Ezekiel 16:53
        New International Version
        "'However, I will restore the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters and of Samaria and her daughters, and your fortunes along with them"
     
In Jude when he says Sodom and Gomorrah are examples of 'eternal fire' one has to wonder, is there fire and flames there now.. No. Judgment yes.

And in the Book of Revelation when Revelation 19:3 says ""Hallelujah! Her smoke rises up forever and ever" will be the same.. the smoke of it (memory of it) will rise up (be remembered)..

I actually copy and pasted the list you made, to look them up later.. Awesome facts and cross references!! :2thumbs:

.."meaning of words that have been translated as "eternal", "forever", "incurable" in the scriptures" it's amazing, actually that all the words translated for ever, do not actually say forever, or always, etc.. I'm currently working on the list used in the Old Testament.. only one could be said to imply a forever, but they're always questions or having nothing to do with judgment, etc.. (Yes, I usually am not satisfied except to do my own studies and word searches, etc.) I've done this before, but not on paper or typed up which is what I'm doing now.

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #13

"Even if You slay me, yet I will say You are God"---and the last stand is taken. Even if You slay me---yet will I acknowledge this One and Only Power.

:mthumbsup:

[rodgertutt]

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #14

GOD'S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME

While the elect are enjoying life eonian, the non-elect will experience kolasis eonian which means age-during corrective chastisement. When the corrective chastisement has been achieved in everyone who needs it, then both life eonian and chastisement eonian will come to an end and eternity will continue with everyone saved from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will.

A snippet from
GOD'S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
"During the present wicked eon (Gal.1:4), Sin reigns, Satan who is said to be "the god of this eon" (2 Cor.4:4) blinds and deceives mankind, and death swallows up the race (1 Cor.15:22). But notwithstanding, God is over all and is in supreme control. He is the eonian God. In due time He will deliver the entire creation and bring good out of all the suffering mankind is called upon to endure (Rom.8;18-23)."

GOD'S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html

Many Greek scholars agree with John Wesley Hanson
AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html

SEE

THE SCHOLAR'S CORNER FOR THE STUDY OF BIBLICAL UNIVERSALISM
http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html

THE EONS
http://martinzender.com/Zenderature/the_eons.htm

THE EONS
http://www.hbci.com/~billstei/hae/aionverses.pdf

[rodgertutt]

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #15

GRACE, PLUS NOTHING – James Coram

This is not to say that our efforts are not essential or that there will be nothing for us to do since it is God Who saves us from our failings. To the contrary, God graciously saves us by causing us to work, "training us that, disowning irreverence and worldly desires, we should be living sanely and justly and devoutly in the current eon" Titus 2:11,12. But our efforts are merely a product; they are the means through which God saves us. We contribute nothing.

It is not a question of our discipline and volition, but of pride and self-reliance concerning our discipline and volition, of boasting in the flesh instead of glorying in the transforming power of God. As long as we continue to see ourselves, in the final sense, as the key to anything, we will remain proud, antagonistic to "the grace of God in truth" Col. 1:6.

It is one thing to conceive of ourselves, in a dutiful sense and relatively speaking, as "cooperating" with the Lord Jesus, as He leads us into paths of better service. It is quite another, however, proudly to fancy ourselves to be so utterly independent of the Supreme Deity Himself, the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, that even He is at a loss to change our will or walk without our help.

Luke 6:32-35 shows us what God's grace (thanks) is; He is gracious to the wicked, which means sinners like we all were when He was gracious to us. It's not that we have to preach so they can be saved, otherwise we're responsible for their "eternal damnation", and they have to receive the message (if we happen to present it to them), or else they will be eternally damned. Salvation is not based on human actions, but on divine actions. He chooses who to save and when, and at that moment, that soul is saved. And He will save all, as He has clearly said He will do.

We believe the message we heard, and we preach because we are so commanded, but God doesn't depend upon us to save ourselves, nor does He depend upon our conveying the message, to save others. He is the only Sovereign, and He so arranges EVERYTHING that each will be saved. Free will and chance are myths which have completely twisted the mindset of many Christians.

[rodgertutt]

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #16

WHAT I WISH I HAD KNOWN DURING MY YOUTH ---
How I recovered from a 12 year nervous breakdown (1966-78) 

My name is Rodger Tutt. I am 74 years old. I could have avoided a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78) had I known as a youth about the following information concerning what a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaches.

BOOKS THAT SHOW THAT THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION,
THE ENTIRE CONTENTS OF WHICH CAN BE READ ONLINE

If necessary, copy and paste the following urls into your browser address bar.

0. ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST – Charles Slagle
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute-Assurance-in-Jesus-Christ.html 
1. HOPE BEYOND HELL - Gerry Beauchemin (recently published)
http://tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
2. CHRIST TRIUMPHANT - Thomas Allin
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ChristTriumphant.htm   
3. THE BIBLE HELL - J.W. Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/TheBibleHell.html 
4. THE ORIGIN AND HISTORY OF THE DOCTRINE OF ENDLESS PUNISHMENT – Thomas Thayer
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/OriginandHistory.html 
5. THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – Dr. Loyal Hurley
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/infinitegrace.htm   
6. JUST WHAT DO YOU MEAN "HELL" - J. Preston Eby
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/hell.htm 
7. ONE HUNDRED SCRIPTURAL PROOFS THAT JESUS CHRIST WILL SAVE ALL MANKIND - Thomas Whittemore
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ScripturalProofs.html 
8. TWENTY-FOUR SERMONS ON UNIVERSAL SALVATION – John Bovee Dods
http://www.tentmaker.org/Bovee2.htm#Top   
9. THE SECOND DEATH AND THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – Andrew Jukes
http://www.tentmaker.org/restitutionindex.htm   
10. ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY REASONS FOR BELIEVING IN THE FINAL SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND – Erasmus Manford
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/150reasons.html   
11. THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS – J. Patching
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/RichManandLazarus-Patching.html 
12. BIBLE TRANSLATIONS THAT DO NOT TEACH ETERNAL TORMENT – Gary Amirault
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/GatesOfHell.html   
13. AION – AIONIOS – John Wesley Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html   
14. BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html   
15. THE CASE OF JUDAS, ETCETERA - Louis Abbott
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter16.html   
16. THE PROBLEM OF EVIL – John Essex
AND THE ROLE OF THE ADVERSARY – James Webb
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/TheProblemofEvil.html 
17. HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE – James Coram
http://concordant.org/expohtml/HisAchievement/index.html   
18. THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – Andrew Jukes
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/jukes2.html   
19. THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – George Hawtin
http://www.godfire.net/restitutionHawtin.html
20. THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES – J. Preston Eby
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/index.htm 
ESPECIALLY THIS ONE IN THAT SERIES
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/circularity.htm   
21. THE PURPOSE OF EVIL – A.P. Adams
http://thegloryrd.com:80/apadams/evil.html   
22. TEN REASONS NOT TO BELIEVE THE TEACHING OF ETERNAL TORTURE - Thomas Kissinger
http://www.completerestorationinchrist.org/reasons-not.html
23. IS HELL ETERNAL OR WILL GOD'S PLAN FAIL? – Charles Pridgeon
http://www.archive.org/stream/willgodsplanfail00priduoft#page/n13/mode/2up
24. THE PROBLEM OF EVIL AND THE JUDGMENTS OF GOD – A.E. Knoch 
http://www.concordant.org/expohtml/TheProblemOfEvil/index.html 
25. GOD'S EONIAN PURPOSE
http://www.gtft.org/Library/loudy/GodsEonianPurpose/GodsEonianPurpose00.htm  - Adlai Loudy
26. THE TRUE BASIS OF REDEMPTION – A.P. Adams
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/TrueBasisOfRedemption-APAdams.html
27. TWO TREASURE HOUSES OF CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALIST ARTICLES
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/articles2.html
http://tgulcm.tripod.com/cu/univart.html

[marie glen]

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #15

GRACE, PLUS NOTHING – James Coram

...We contribute nothing.

...of boasting in the flesh instead of glorying in the transforming power of God. As long as we continue to see ourselves, in the final sense, as the key to anything, we will remain proud, antagonistic to "the grace of God in truth" Col. 1:6.

It is one thing to conceive of ourselves, in a dutiful sense and relatively speaking, as "cooperating" with the Lord Jesus, as He leads us into paths of better service. It is quite another, however, proudly to fancy ourselves

:2thumbs:

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #15
It is quite another, however, proudly to fancy ourselves to be so utterly independent of the Supreme Deity Himself, the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, that even He is at a loss to change our will or walk without our help.

:laugh2:     :laugh2:

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #15
Luke 6:32-35 shows us what God's grace (thanks) is; He is gracious to the wicked, which means sinners like we all were when He was gracious to us. It's not that we have to preach so they can be saved, otherwise we're responsible for their "eternal damnation", and they have to receive the message (if we happen to present it to them), or else they will be eternally damned. Salvation is not based on human actions, but on divine actions. He chooses who to save and when, and at that moment, that soul is saved. And He will save all, as He has clearly said He will do.

:2thumbs: God is the one who moves (us=empty vessel, or we should be; He=the Holy Ghost in each one).. and He also, imo, provides times of rest, at which time is the temptation to 'worry' we have somehow fallen away and are unproductive, but it's good to rest
(in the finished work of Jesus! :2thumbs: :banana: )  so we will continue to pray, read, praise and study..

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #15

We believe the message we heard, and we preach because we are so commanded, but God doesn't depend upon us to save ourselves, nor does He depend upon our conveying the message, to save others. He is the only Sovereign, and He so arranges EVERYTHING that each will be saved. Free will and chance are myths which have completely twisted the mindset of many Christians.

     :goodpost: 

Oh man! You said it!! It is one of the major contributing factors and foundations of the hell theory which blasphemes God's Holy image every single day!!

[marie glen]

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #14

GOD'S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME

ABSOLUTELY!!  :gsmile: :goodpost:
His ages will accomplish exactly what He wants.. exactly what His will is! Otherwise He is less than "God"!!! (LoGiC!!) :cloud9:

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #16

WHAT I WISH I HAD KNOWN DURING MY YOUTH ---
How I recovered from a 12 year nervous breakdown (1966-78) 

My name is Rodger Tutt. I am 74 years old. I could have avoided a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78) had I known as a youth about the following information concerning what a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaches.

BOOKS THAT SHOW THAT THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION,
THE ENTIRE CONTENTS OF WHICH CAN BE READ ONLINE

If necessary, copy and paste the urls into your browser address bar.

Oh that all in the faith would understand that!!

I may have to read all of these on your list! Before coming to Tentmaker, I didn't know there were MANY believing, supporting and writing in support of Universal Reconciliation..

(EDIT) P.S - the first on the list, I was so blessed right away (!) especially by this, QUOTE: "For many years, as a Christian, I was unable to rest in God's love while trusting Him to bring me into wholeness."
     ...what a mouthful of wisdom!! HOW MANY lambs of Jesus need to hear this!! Truth which sets free.. not untruth mixed in, which binds.. and also the dark angels can use it to torment Jesus' own.. untruth leavens the lump/truth-dilutes its POWER.
The LINK: http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute-Assurance-in-Jesus-Christ.html
(also, same link) "Four Views of the Good News of Jesus Christ" - I never knew of these three, or how the two main streams have influenced the gospel message (lost some of its glory and picked up some baggage along the way!) un-churched semi hermit here. VERY HELPFUL!! :gsmile: previously i don't read much books,etc about what the Bible says, for this reason, but these LINKS are different! (and as far as i know, not advising 'all is metaphor')

[rodgertutt]

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #18

J. PRESTON EBY

A great sixteen chapter introductory series to ultimate reconciliation.
J. Preston Eby does a thorough job covering many aspects of the topic.
Fundamental reading for any person interested in studying universal salvation from a solid biblical perspective.
Highly Recommended!
http://www.godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html

TESTIMONY VIDEO OF J. PRESTON EBY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEwcWR8kxUs&feature=sub

[marie glen]

Awesome!! I will be reading that and watching that later!

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #18

J. PRESTON EBY

A great sixteen chapter introductory series to ultimate reconciliation.
J. Preston Eby does a thorough job covering many aspects of the topic.
Fundamental reading for any person interested in studying universal salvation from a solid biblical perspective.
Highly Recommended!
http://www.godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html

TESTIMONY VIDEO OF J. PRESTON EBY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEwcWR8kxUs&feature=sub

Absolutely! Especially reading the introductory series! As it's LEAPING right out at me.. sounds like a summary.. I love summaries..

"from a solid biblical perspective."
"Highly Recommended!"

[rodgertutt]

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #19

JUDAS

Here is why the case of Judas does not disprove UR.

"Let us look carefully at the Greek text: kalon ên auto eiouk egennêthê ho anthropos ekeinos, "Ideal were it for Him if that man were not born" or "It were ideal for Him if that man was not born." The question is asked, Who is the Him? The answer is in the preceding clause. There we have the pronoun autou, "Him," and anthropo ekeino, "that man," both referred to in such a way that we cannot mistake them. "The Son of Man indeed goeth as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed!" "Him" is the Son of Man, "that man" is Judas.

The Him cannot refer to Judas, therefore the text can be paraphrased as, "Ideal were it for Him (the Son of Man) if that man (Judas) were not born."

That is the understanding that the syntax requires.

Therefore, Mark 14:21 does not contradict Col. 1:15-20; 1 Tim. 4:9-11; Rom. 5:18, 19; etc., all teaching the ultimate salvation of Judas."

Regarding the confusion of the different versions, Louis Abbott adds the following note:

"Notice how the following versions translates this clause:
The ASV, 1901 margin, "Good were it for him if that man had not been born;"
Rotherham's version, "Well for him if that man had not been born;"

Murphy's edition of the Douay Version and the New Testament translated from the Latin Vulgate, 1898,
"It were better for him, if that man had not been born;"

(the following three versions are quoted in the original spelling)
Wiclif, 1380, "It were good to hym if thilke man hadde not been borun;"
Tyndale, 1534, "Good were it for him if that man had never bene borne;"
Rheims, 1582, "it vvere good for him, if that man had not been borne."

and repeating the conclusion

The Him cannot refer to Judas, therefore the text can be paraphrased as, "Ideal were it for Him (the Son of Man) if that man (Judas) were not born."

IMO that is the understanding that the syntax requires.

Therefore, Mark 14:21 does not contradict Col. 1:15-20; 1 Tim. 4:9-11; Rom. 5:18, 19; etc., all teaching the ultimate salvation of Judas."

But even if it did refer to Judas, consider this.

A snippet from
BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html
Scroll down and click on
BETTER NEVER BEEN BORN
"This was a proverbial expression among the Jews, and was not employed literally."
It was the same meaning as we have today when we say "I wish I had never been born", or "You will wish you had never been born."

"But what about Judas Iscariot? Doesn't it say it would have been better if he'd never been born?
Matthew 26:24 "The Son of Mankind is indeed going away, according as it is written concerning Him, yet woe to that man through whom the Son of Mankind is being given up! Ideal were it for Him if that man were not born!" It would have been ideal (pleasing and peaceful) for Jesus (the Son of Mankind/Him) if Judas (that man) had not been born. It was nevertheless necessary for him to be born and commit his sin of betrayal in order for scripture to be fulfilled. See Genesis 6:6; John 18:11; Matt. 26:39. (While many Bible versions mistranslate Matt.26:24, some do put the correct rendering in the margin.)

Concerning Judas' title, "son of destruction", John 17:12, the Greek word is apollumi, often translated, perish or lose. This word is used in the New Testament about 90 times. Many people, animals, and even things are described as being "lost", "destroyed" or "perished". It is unwise to assume the word describes "eternal damnation". "For the Son of Mankind came to seek and to save the lost (apollumi)." Luke 19:10. The book All in All, by A. E. Knoch, is very informative on this and some other important topics, such as the eons, the 3 classes of vivification, "hell", and "annihilation".
http://www.lighthouselibrary.com/read.php?sel=2586&searchfor=

[rodgertutt]

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #20

INTERPRETED VERSIONS ARE WRONG

God says what the Greek says, not what the interpreted versions say.
God says what the literal translations say.

There are several dozen Greek scholars who agree with John Wesley Hanson that interpreted versions are wrong.

AIÓN – AIÓNIOS
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.shtml

THE SCHOLARS CORNER THE CENTER FOR BIBLE STUDIES IN CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISM
http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html

Dean Hough, director of THE SAVIOUR OF ALL FELLOWSHIP wrote
"The definition given in THE VOCABULARY OF THE GREEK TESTAMENT (edited by James Hope Moulton and George Milligan) is helpful. Concerning aionios we read, "In general, the word depicts that of which the horizon is not in view . . ." (p.16). If the horizon of the extermination spoken of by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 1:9 is simply not in view, then we can see that what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:22 can truly occur. The same all who are dying in Adam, which includes some who incur eonian extermination, can indeed eventually be vivified in Christ.
The Bible, in fact, does not speak of judgment and condemnation, death and destruction, hades and Gehenna, or any of these serious consequences of sin, as unending. It may refer to them as not having the end in view, but none of these fearful works of God can keep Him from achieving His will (1Tim.2:4); reconciling all through the blood of Christ's cross (Col.1:20, and becoming All in all (1Cor.15:28)." Dean Hough

[marie glen]

Amen! and Amen!! I especially enjoyed reading the post about Judas! Very informing, enlightening, and sets it straight.. which I'd never heard it before, and am now glad I have! :mthumbsup: :ty:

...also, it's just 'crazy' when folks think someone else is changing the scripture, when what's 'changing' is from the "King's Englishe" (for instance) and back to the original, as it was spoken originally!

[rodgertutt]

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #21

LOVE WINS

Here is an analogy that I got from Ray Prinzing (my earthly hero and mentor)

A man courts a lady by continually expressing his love for her week after week, both verbally, and by bringing her gifts.

If he stops trying to persuade her to marry him, he loses everything.
But if he never stops trying to convince her until she says yes, then he goes to her place, gathers up all the gifts he gave her AND HER, and takes them back to his place for the rest of their lives.

Human love sometimes fails to elicit a loving response, but God's divine love is not hampered by the limitations of human love.

Even if takes kolasis aionios (age-during corrective chastisement) which is a negative expression of His love, God will sooner or later elicit a loving response from everyone.

That is what I believe.
LOVE WINS
http://lovewins.us/388/an-analytical-study-of-words/

[marie glen]

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #21

LOVE WINS

Here is an analogy that I got from Ray Prinzing (my earthly hero and mentor)

A man courts a lady by continually expressing his love for her week after week, both verbally, and by bringing her gifts.

If he stops trying to persuade her to marry him, he loses everything.
But if he never stops trying to convince her until she says yes, then he goes to her place, gathers up all the gifts he gave her AND HER, and takes them back to his place for the rest of their lives.

Human love sometimes fails to elicit a loving response, but God's divine love is not hampered by the limitations of human love.

Even if takes kolasis aionios (age-during corrective chastisement) which is a negative expression of His love, God will sooner or later elicit a loving response from everyone.

That is what I believe.
LOVE WINS
http://lovewins.us/388/an-analytical-study-of-words/

That is awesome! I'm so glad to have read it!! :cloud9: ..and a great site!

[marie glen]

from: http://lovewins.us/388/an-analytical-study-of-words/ An excellent study!!/book for anyone searching, and not yet sure they can trust such bold statements as Col 1:20 and 1 Tim 4:10, Ps 22:27 (esp b), etc.


"many Christians are seeking for a purity which can only be found beyond man-made institutions"

"each position claims Scriptural support: (1) eternal torment; (2) eternal destruction; and (3) the ultimate salvation of all. It is obvious that all cannot be correct."

"The Scriptures do not teach two different destinies for mankind They only seem to do so because of mistranslations. The Scriptures are the inspired words of God and therefore cannot be contradictory."

He tries very hard to express what He has learned after 50 years of what sounds like intense research and learning..

"What follows must be read very slowly and probably several times. I have made it as simple as I possibly can. One does not need to learn Greek to see what I hope will become plain to the average reader, but one does need to go to their translations and to a good concordance to verify that what I am writing is actually in the text. A Greek-English Interlinear would also be helpful, but not necessary. Furthermore, there may be some texts I will deal with that I may not be able to make plain enough what I want to express. If there are some passages you do not understand, just set them aside. I will present enough material that it should be easy for anyone to at least see that these words are not adequately translated in the King James Bible...."

[rodgertutt]

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #22

MUSLIMS

As most Christians already know, millions of Christians believe that millions of Muslims (and all other non-Christians too) are going to suffer forever in hell.
They believe it because that's the way they were taught by their parents and by other people on whom they relied to tell them the truth.

What many Christians do not know is that millions of Muslims believe that millions of Christians (and all non-Muslims) are going to suffer forever in hell too.
And they also believe it because that's the way they were taught by their parents and by other people on whom they relied to tell them the truth.
Quote from THE AFTER LIFE IN ISLAM
"Being a Muslim does not keep one out of Hell, but non-Muslims (kafir), however, will be punished eternally."
http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/beliefs/afterlife.htm

I think the entire dichotomy is ridiculous!
I think that the idea of "eternal hell" may be the cause of more suffering on this earth than any other idea that exists.

For anyone who is interested, the following is a very informative link containing many reasons why I agree with Chad Holtz and why I understand completely why he could no longer go on pretending to his congregation that he believes in such a horrific concept of God as taught by his denomination's interpretation of the Bible, even though it cost him his job.
http://what-the-hell-is-hell.com/topics/hell-scholars-corner/

In my opinion the greatest of all manifestations of God's grace in action on this earth is that anyone can believe that God will let anyone choose themselves into an inescapable state of everlasting suffering and not go insane thinking about it.

[marie glen]

 :iagree: It's total blasphemy and should be unimaginable, as it's highly illogical!! "God is love" 1 Jn 4:8.. God, of course can only be perfect. Therefor, the 'end' result of all this (human history, etc) can only be the-best-one-possible. And! It's clearly supported by scripture, we don't need to dismiss any verses, we simply need to see them as they are in order to share them when the call to do so arises.

Proof God is perfect, if He wasn't He too would not endure..

He has done ALL things in order to bring about the best of all possibilities.. It is not possible for a mere human or humans to conceive of something better than what He does/has. And will do.

'Hell' (as we know) is a pagan / pre Christian notion..

[eaglesway]

God is not reactive. He is proactive. He causes all things to work according to the counsel of His own will.


"Oh if ONLY God could catch up to how bad the devil is and how evil some people are- the world could be such a nice place'....

Yeesh!

Mat 8:26  And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

[rodgertutt]

God is not reactive. He is proactive. He causes all things to work according to the counsel of His own will.

"Oh if ONLY God could catch up to how bad the devil is and how evil some people are- the world could be such a nice place'.... Yeesh!

Mat 8:26  And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

I love "great calm," especially when Jesus causes it in my soul and spirit.    :HeartThrob:

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #23

The age following The Great White Throne Judgment is sometimes called by theologians 'the age of consummation,' or 'the age of Jubilee,' or 'the age of the New Heaven and New Earth.'
By the time that age has ended, all fallen creatures will have been saved from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will.

A snippet from THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – LOYAL F. HURLEY

"Only as one sees God's Plan of the Ages do they see the beauty of God's Program for the redemption of the race.

Heb. 11:3 should read, "Through faith we understand that the ages were planned by the Word of God." The ages will collectively end. A literal translation of Heb. 9:26 is, 'But now, once for all, with a view to the end of the ages, has He been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.'

Throughout the eons there is sin and evil, condemnation and death. At the end of the eons all will be justified (Rom. 5:18,19), and all will be reconciled through Christ's blood (Col. 1:20)."

GOD'S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html