Damned

[WhiteWings]

  Peter  describes it well , Jesus speaks of it  as in the days of Noah/Noe so shall the coming of the Son of Man be
  2nd  cleansing  by Fire = the presence of God "SPIRIT"

Now the 2nd  baptism by fire    now do we take this literally ??? or is this a spiritual language  :dontknow:
I just noticed its in 1st Peter 3WATER  and in 2nd peter 3  FIRE  wow  what a catch !! :HeartThrob:lol
to  me anyways

Let's take this one step further. A step many won't like :winkgrin:
Pentecost was baptism by fire. The fire was the HS.
Above we saw law=fire.
In Greek (and some English translations) the HS is called "It".
I always wondered what exactly the HS is...
But maybe: HS=Fire=Law

Then for example laws written on our heart simply means the HS inside of you.
But it conflicts with God is a consuming fire.
:dontknow:

How does it conflict WW ?  :icon_flower:

I'll PM you because I'm not allowed to answer that here.

[rosered]

  Ok Thanks WW  :icon_flower:

[jabcat]

It may be able to be answered if done so scripturally and artfully - without resorting to "waving a red flag to a bull" catch phrases.   :dontknow:

If not, then yes, PM's best.   :thumbsup:

[rosered]

It may be able to be answered if done so scripturally and artfully - without resorting to "waving a red flag to a bull" catch phrases.   :dontknow:

If not, then yes, PM's best.   :thumbsup:

LOL   RIGHT  :thumbsup:   WW must have went to bed , he is on the other side of the   POND   :laughing7:

[jabcat]

well, doesn't seem he sleeps much, so maybe soon    :happy3:

[Cardinal]

:cloud9: Sorry guys.....I knew as soon as I laid my head on the pillow it was the wrong script reference, but I only had 2 hours sleep yesterday and the pillow won. :laughing7: Try this.....

John 7:39 KJV (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

IF Jab is ok with it, I will add more when I don't have to go to work. PM me Jab.

[rosered]

:cloud9: Sorry guys.....I knew as soon as I laid my head on the pillow it was the wrong script reference, but I only had 2 hours sleep yesterday and the pillow won. :laughing7: Try this.....

John 7:39 KJV (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

IF Jab is ok with it, I will add more when I don't have to go to work. PM me Jab.

:thumbsup:  got cha Card ,
seems this is true  also ,   the Holy / ghost spirit was ,   and was not with men when Christ was  here  , it was not , and  after Christ died it revived again ....

  but I sure dont know , some scriptures confuse me more   than  make things clear ....

  Tts 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;   :HeartThrob:

[jabcat]

:cloud9: Sorry guys.....I knew as soon as I laid my head on the pillow it was the wrong script reference, but I only had 2 hours sleep yesterday and the pillow won. :laughing7: Try this.....

John 7:39 KJV (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

IF Jab is ok with it, I will add more when I don't have to go to work. PM me Jab.

We'll be watching for it.   :cool: 

[micah7:9]

  Good study WW , your doing great work  these days !  :thumbsup:


They   are very  helpful .... :HeartThrob:


Do you think God / Jesus judges  acts   by  giving power to his chosen ones ?

Jesus and His angels. Because the elect are going to rule the millenia kingdom it's not impossible that the elect are the angels = messenger of the word.

^YLTRevelation 14
10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, that hath been mingled unmixed in the cup of His anger, and he shall be tormented in fire and brimstone before the holy messengers, and before the Lamb,

Good considering! :bigGrin:

[WhiteWings]

It may be able to be answered if done so scripturally and artfully - without resorting to "waving a red flag to a bull" catch phrases.   :dontknow:

If not, then yes, PM's best.   :thumbsup:

LOL   RIGHT  :thumbsup:   WW must have went to bed , he is on the other side of the   POND   :laughing7:

I've arisen from my slumber! And RoseY get it right for at least once! The word is LAKE :icon_flower:

PS I've read your PM. I'm processing it now and will answer.

[WhiteWings]

It may be able to be answered if done so scripturally and artfully - without resorting to "waving a red flag to a bull" catch phrases.   :dontknow:

If not, then yes, PM's best.   :thumbsup:

This is one of the situations I PMed you about James.
I could use scripture (and other stuff) lots of it, but that would make it only more against the rules.
But I'm sure most already know what's being chatted about in PM. Sou hows that for art?
:icon_jokercolor:

[jabcat]

 :wink2:

[WhiteWings]

:cloud9: Sorry guys.....I knew as soon as I laid my head on the pillow it was the wrong script reference, but I only had 2 hours sleep yesterday and the pillow won. :laughing7: Try this.....

John 7:39 KJV (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Ghost and Spirit are exactly the same  word is Greek according to Mr. Strong. Both are pneuma.

However in  ISA2 http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/joh7.pdf
Spirit=pneumatos
Ghost=pneuma

I only checked this one verse. Difference in manuscripts?
TCB translates it as:
Spirit and the second one as Pure Spirit.
The way I read that verse it's exactly the same thing.

(TCB) Now He said this about the Spirit, which those believed in Him, were about to get (for the Pure Spirit hadn't been given yet, because Yesu hadn't been glorified yet).

IF Jab is ok with it, I will add more when I don't have to go to work. PM me Jab.

No work? You got lots of works scheduled for today. Huge moderation backlog. Answer all your "gotta run, I'll add more later" posts.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: One problem. Read the text prior to the one I gave. It was referring to believers who had already received Him as Messiah, but were unaware they needed to receive the Holy Ghost. It says right there the Holy Ghost had not yet been given because He had not been glorified yet, which He had to die to accomplish.

So my point is, they already the Spirit, but they had yet to get the Holy Ghost. Same Spirit, but different functions.

And I'll get back to you on all those "moderation issues"  :laughing7:

[pneuma]

  Peter  describes it well , Jesus speaks of it  as in the days of Noah/Noe so shall the coming of the Son of Man be
  2nd  cleansing  by Fire = the presence of God "SPIRIT"

Now the 2nd  baptism by fire    now do we take this literally ??? or is this a spiritual language  :dontknow:
I just noticed its in 1st Peter 3WATER  and in 2nd peter 3  FIRE  wow  what a catch !! :HeartThrob:lol
to  me anyways

Let's take this one step further. A step many won't like :winkgrin:
Pentecost was baptism by fire. The fire was the HS.
Above we saw law=fire.
In Greek (and some English translations) the HS is called "It".
I always wondered what exactly the HS is...
But maybe: HS=Fire=Law

Then for example laws written on our heart simply means the HS inside of you.
But it conflicts with God is a consuming fire.
:dontknow:

WW why does the HS inside of us conflict with God being a consumming fire?

Gods consumes all the dross within us by the HS

[rosered]

  Peter  describes it well , Jesus speaks of it  as in the days of Noah/Noe so shall the coming of the Son of Man be
  2nd  cleansing  by Fire = the presence of God "SPIRIT"

Now the 2nd  baptism by fire    now do we take this literally ??? or is this a spiritual language  :dontknow:
I just noticed its in 1st Peter 3WATER  and in 2nd peter 3  FIRE  wow  what a catch !! :HeartThrob:lol
to  me anyways

Let's take this one step further. A step many won't like :winkgrin:
Pentecost was baptism by fire. The fire was the HS.
Above we saw law=fire.
In Greek (and some English translations) the HS is called "It".
I always wondered what exactly the HS is...
But maybe: HS=Fire=Law

Then for example laws written on our heart simply means the HS inside of you.
But it conflicts with God is a consuming fire.
:dontknow:

WW why does the HS inside of us conflict with God being a consumming fire?

Gods consumes all the dross within us by the HS

Thats how I see it as a dual purpose  too ........ keeps clean within  so Holy Spirit  remains  within us   and the man of sin  cast out by overwhelming  destruction  :HeartThrob: 

1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

Strong's G907 - baptizō 1) to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)

2) to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe

3) to overwhelm

"Note on Baptism in Ac. Baptism in water (such as John's) is distinguished from baptism with the Holy Spirit (i. 5, etc.). Those who receive the latter, however, may also be baptized in water (cf. xi. 16 with x. 47); and there is one example of people who had previously received John's baptism receiving Christian baptism as a preliminary to receiving the Spirit (xix. 3 ff.).

John's was a baptism of repentance (xiii. 24; xix. 4), as was also Christian baptism (ii. 38), but as John's pointed forward to Jesus (xix. 4), it became obsolete when He came. Christian baptism followed faith in the Lord Jesus (xvi. 31 ff.); it was associated with His name (ii. 38; viii. 16, etc.), which was invoked by the person baptized (xxii. 16); it signified the remission (ii. 38) or washing away of sins (xxii. 16); sometimes it preceded (ii. 38; viii. 15 ff.; xix. 5), sometimes followed (x. 47 f.) the receiving of the Spirit." (F. F. Bruce. The Acts of the Apostles [Greek Text Commentary], London: Tyndale, 1952, p. 98, n. 1.)
This word should not be confused with baptô (911).


The clearest example that shows the meaning of baptizo is a text from the Greek poet and physician Nicander, who lived about 200 B.C. It is a recipe for making pickles and is helpful because it uses both words. Nicander says that in order to make a pickle, the vegetable should first be 'dipped' (baptô) into boiling water and then 'baptised' (baptizô) in the vinegar solution. Both verbs concern the immersing of vegetables in a solution. But the first is temporary. The second, the act of baptising the vegetable, produces a permanent change.

PERMANENT CHANGE  / That twinkling of and eye  change 1Cr 15:52   In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.

  or how else can the incorruptible  dwell in a consuming fire ??

[micah7:9]

Am I hearing that the Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit are two different entities and are two different functions? Where is it that I can find this?  I do not see or understand this?
Ghost/Spirit  G4151  pneuma  From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit

And also about a "second baptism." I find only 'John's baptism, Act 19:2  he said unto them, `The Holy Spirit did ye receive--having believed?' and they said unto him, `But we did not even hear whether there is any Holy Spirit;'
Act 19:3  and he said unto them, `To what, then, were ye baptized?' and they said, `To John's baptism.'
John's baptism as I reason it, was his mission, his calling, John was a voice crying in the wilderness, to open the way. When Jesus came "Johns baptism" was not needed.
I understand there to be "one baptism," Eph 4:5  one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

[WhiteWings]

Am I hearing that the Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit are two different entities and are two different functions? Where is it that I can find this?  I do not see or understand this?

Read the article/link. And ask Cardinal because I started searching 8 hours ago after Card wrote something about a difference.

And also about a "second baptism." I find only 'John's baptism, Act 19:2

^CLVLuke 3
16 John answers, saying to all, "I, indeed, in water am baptizing you. Yet coming is One stronger than I, the thong of Whose sandals I am not competent to loose. He will be baptizing you in holy spirit and fire,

[pneuma]

Maybe this will be of some help

Could be that the HS is the life of the Father and the HG is the life of the son.

Scriptures say that God gave Jesus a LIFE of his own.

Thus we today get a double portion of LIFE. The LIFE of the Father and the LIFE of the Son.

[WhiteWings]

Scott,

Does that means Father's Life isn't perfect enough so we need the Son's life to make it better?

[pneuma]

Scott,

Does that means Father's Life isn't perfect enough so we need the Son's life to make it better?

No it just means we get a double portion of LIFE.

11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.


Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.


And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me. 10And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.

[WhiteWings]

What's the use of a double perfect life that lasts 2 eternities?
Not even Father or Son can improve perfection.

[micah7:9]

Am I hearing that the Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit are two different entities and are two different functions? Where is it that I can find this?  I do not see or understand this?

Read the article/link. And ask Cardinal because I started searching 8 hours ago after Card wrote something about a difference.

And also about a "second baptism." I find only 'John's baptism, Act 19:2

^CLVLuke 3
16 John answers, saying to all, "I, indeed, in water am baptizing you. Yet coming is One stronger than I, the thong of Whose sandals I am not competent to loose. He will be baptizing you in holy spirit and fire,

Yes, but I do not see "John's baptism" having anything to do with THE baptism. All that John's baptism produced is symbolism for the teachers of theology. If there is more than ONE BAPTISM, then Eph. 4 is in error?

[micah7:9]

Maybe this will be of some help

Could be that the HS is the life of the Father and the HG is the life of the son.

Scriptures say that God gave Jesus a LIFE of his own.

Thus we today get a double portion of LIFE. The LIFE of the Father and the LIFE of the Son.

Should you be able to show me in the Word of God that the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost are not the same, then I will say your statement, "Could be that the HS is the life of the Father and the HG is the life of the son." has no premise at all. Do not want to cause discord, but I do not hear that.

[pneuma]

What's the use of a double perfect life that lasts 2 eternities?
Not even Father or Son can improve perfection.

Well answer me this, is the HG the same as the HS?