ACVMark 16
16 He who believes and is immersed will be saved, but he who does not believe will be damned.
DAMNED
κατακρίνω
katakrinō
Thayer Definition:
1) to give judgment against, to judge worthy of punishment
1a) to condemn
1b) by one's good example to render another's wickedness themore evident and censurable
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from G2596 and G2919
Citing in TDNT: 3:951, 469
κατά
kata
Thayer Definition:
1) down from, through out
2) according to, toward, along
Part of Speech: preposition
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: a primary particle
κρίνω
krinō
Thayer Definition:
1) to separate, put asunder, to pick out, select, choose
2) to approve, esteem, to prefer
3) to be of opinion, deem, think, to be of opinion
4) to determine, resolve, decree
5) to judge
5a) to pronounce an opinion concerning right and wrong
5a1) to be judged, i.e. summoned to trial that one's case may be examined and judgment passed upon it
5b) to pronounce judgment, to subject to censure
5b1) of those who act the part of judges or arbiters in matters of common life, or pass judgment on the deeds and words of others
6) to rule, govern
6a) to preside over with the power of giving judicial decisions, because it was the prerogative of kings and rulers to pass judgment
7) to contend together, of warriors and combatants
7a) to dispute
7b) in a forensic sense
7b1) to go to law, have suit at law
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: perhaps a primitive word
Citing in TDNT: 3:921, 469
WWMark 16
16 He who believes and is immersed will be saved, but he who does not believe will be accordingly judged.
Compare with:
ACVLuke 12
48 but he who did not know, and did things worthy of blows, will be beaten little. And to every man to whom much was given, much will be required from him. And to whom they entrust much, they will ask him more abundantly.
Faith is given by the HS; those without faith have been give little. They will be judged within the limitations of that little knowledge.
Bit more about judged here (http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/bible_threatenings_explained/aionios_kolasis_5953.msg61991.html#msg61991)
Merriam Webster
Main Entry:1damn
Pronunciation:dam, *daa(*)m
Function:verb
Inflected Form:-ed/-ing/-s
Etymology:Middle English dampnen, from Old French dampner, from Latin damnare to condemn, from damnum damage, fine, harm, loss; perhaps akin to Old Norse tafn sacrifice, Latin daps sacrificial feast, Greek dapan* expenditure, daptein to devour, Sanskrit dayate he apportions * more at TIDE
transitive verb
1 a obsolete : to adjudge (a person) guilty or culpable : sentence judicially b : to condemn to a punishment or fate : DOOM *if we fail, then we have damned every man to be the slave of fear— B.M.Baruch*
2 a : to doom to everlasting punishment in the future world : consign to perdition : CURSE b : to bring about the damnation of
3 : to condemn as invalid, illegal, immoral, bad, or harmful : pronounce adverse judgment upon *damning movies for corrupting the minds of young innocents* *spent three months there and returned with a most damning report— A.G.N.Flew*; specifically : to condemn (a work of art) as a failure
4 : to bring condemnation or ruin upon : RUIN *the story of a T minister damned by his recognition of the mean emotionalism of his church— J.D.Hart* *a democracy is damned when its leaders are slaves; it is safe when its leaders are not afraid to be free— New Republic*
5 : to invoke damnation upon : swear at by using damn : CURSE — often used to express annoyance, disgust, or surprise *damn him, he ought to have been careful* *well, I'll be damned*
intransitive verb : CURSE, SWEAR — often used interjectionally especially to express annoyance, disgust, or surprise
synonyms see EXECRATE
Note that the sheep and coin also were lost.
Good study WW , your doing great work these days ! :thumbsup:
They are very helpful .... :HeartThrob:
Do you think God / Jesus judges acts by giving power to his chosen ones ?
Then said Jesus to them again, Peace [be] unto you: as [my] Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
Jhn 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on [them], and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Jhn 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; [and] whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained.
remit
Strong's G863 - aphiēmi 1) to send away
a) to bid going away or depart
1) of a husband divorcing his wife
b) to send forth, yield up, to expire
c) to let go, let alone, let be
1) to disregard
2) to leave, not to discuss now, (a topic)
a) of teachers, writers and speakers
3) to omit, neglect
d) to let go, give up a debt, forgive, to remit
e) to give up, keep no longer
2) to permit, allow, not to hinder, to give up a thing to a person
3) to leave, go way from one
a) in order to go to another place
b) to depart from any one
c) to depart from one and leave him to himself so that all mutual claims are abandoned
d) to desert wrongfully
e) to go away leaving something behind
f) to leave one by not taking him as a companion
g) to leave on dying, leave behind one
h) to leave so that what is left may remain, leave remaining
i) abandon, leave destitute
retain Strong's G2902 - krateō 1) to have power, be powerful
a) to be chief, be master of, to rule
2) to get possession of
a) to become master of, to obtain
b) to take hold of
c) to take hold of, take, seize
1) to lay hands on one in order to get him into one's power
3) to hold
a) to hold in the hand
b) to hold fast, i.e. not discard or let go
1) to keep carefully and faithfully
c) to continue to hold, to retain
1) of death continuing to hold one
2) to hold in check, restrain
to retain seems to mean hold back judgment where as remit means to leave to deal with it alone
To me there are only two ways to judge anyone
with mercy or without mercy :HeartThrob: but those who judge with mercy will also have mercy from the Lord
Mat 5:7 Blessed [are] the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life. :HeartThrob:
Quote from: rosered on June 06, 2011, 05:57:25 PM
Good study WW , your doing great work these days ! :thumbsup:
They are very helpful .... :HeartThrob:
Do you think God / Jesus judges acts by giving power to his chosen ones ?
Jesus and His angels. Because the elect are going to rule the millenia kingdom it's not impossible that the elect are the angels = messenger of the word.
YLTRevelation 1410 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, that hath been mingled unmixed in the cup of His anger, and he shall be tormented in fire and brimstone before the holy messengers, and before the Lamb,
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 06, 2011, 06:21:07 PM
Quote from: rosered on June 06, 2011, 05:57:25 PM
Good study WW , your doing great work these days ! :thumbsup:
They are very helpful .... :HeartThrob:
Do you think God / Jesus judges acts by giving power to his chosen ones ?
Jesus and His angels. Because the elect are going to rule the millenia kingdom it's not impossible that the elect are the angels = messenger of the word.
YLTRevelation 14
10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, that hath been mingled unmixed in the cup of His anger, and he shall be tormented in fire and brimstone before the holy messengers, and before the Lamb,
Yes , you makes sense , but dont you think its possible that the fire , is their fiery trails of torment they are going though to humble and save them and the brimstone is the purifying process they are experiencing to change ?
for some it sure could happen me thinks :HeartThrob:.
Quote from: rosered on June 06, 2011, 06:05:09 PM
To me there are only two ways to judge anyone with mercy or without mercy :HeartThrob:
There is only one way to correctly judge; according to the law.
A law can be kalosis=corrective or timora=vindictive.
Jesus always spoke about kalosis/corrective punishment. Perhaps that's a slight hint? :mshock:
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 06, 2011, 06:30:05 PM
Quote from: rosered on June 06, 2011, 06:05:09 PM
To me there are only two ways to judge anyone with mercy or without mercy :HeartThrob:
There is only one way to correctly judge; according to the law.
A law can be kalosis=corrective or timora=corrective.
Jesus always spoke about kalosis/corrective punishment. Perhaps that's a slight hint? :mshock:
Yes :HeartThrob: , This corrective punishment is the chastening of the Lord though the rods of men and stripes of men
You know Jesus recieved them punishments but He never commited iniquity ! He was innocent
the covenant God made with David ..
2Sa 7:14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son.
If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: But
my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took [it] from Saul, whom I put away before thee.
And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.
Mat 20:30 And, behold, two blind men sitting by the way side, when they heard that Jesus passed by, cried out, saying,
Have mercy on us, O Lord, [thou] Son of David. just some more thoughts :icon_flower:
Quote from: rosered on June 06, 2011, 06:46:17 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 06, 2011, 06:30:05 PM
Quote from: rosered on June 06, 2011, 06:05:09 PM
To me there are only two ways to judge anyone with mercy or without mercy :HeartThrob:
There is only one way to correctly judge; according to the law.
A law can be kalosis=corrective or timora=corrective.
Jesus always spoke about kalosis/corrective punishment. Perhaps that's a slight hint? :mshock:
Yes :HeartThrob: , This corrective punishment is the chastening of the Lord though the rods of men and stripes of men
You know Jesus recieved them punishments but He never commited iniquity ! He was innocent
the covenant God made with David ..
2Sa 7:14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son.
If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: But my mercy shall not depart away
The judgement isn't mercyful; the law is. Sound a bit odd... but I see it that way. Of course the effect is the same. A judge that bends the law is corrupt...
Matthew 12:20 "A battered reed He will not break off, And a smoldering wick He will not put out, Until He leads justice to victory.
Quote from: rosered on June 06, 2011, 06:27:45 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 06, 2011, 06:21:07 PM
Quote from: rosered on June 06, 2011, 05:57:25 PM
Good study WW , your doing great work these days ! :thumbsup:
They are very helpful .... :HeartThrob:
Do you think God / Jesus judges acts by giving power to his chosen ones ?
Jesus and His angels. Because the elect are going to rule the millenia kingdom it's not impossible that the elect are the angels = messenger of the word.
YLTRevelation 14
10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, that hath been mingled unmixed in the cup of His anger, and he shall be tormented in fire and brimstone before the holy messengers, and before the Lamb,
Yes , you makes sense , but dont you think its possible that the fire , is their fiery trails of torment they are going though to humble and save them and the brimstone is the purifying process they are experiencing to change ?
for some it sure could happen me thinks :HeartThrob:.
The Bible speaks about a fiery law. A literal translation is "fire law".
I had a thought about this last week. What if LoF means: Be fully subjected to or submerged in the law?
LoF = law
That law burn with brimstone. Brimstone is nearly equal to God. So the law is not just a law; it's (purifying) divine law.
:dontknow:
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 06, 2011, 07:08:38 PM
Quote from: rosered on June 06, 2011, 06:46:17 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 06, 2011, 06:30:05 PM
Quote from: rosered on June 06, 2011, 06:05:09 PM
To me there are only two ways to judge anyone with mercy or without mercy :HeartThrob:
There is only one way to correctly judge; according to the law.
A law can be kalosis=corrective or timora=corrective.
Jesus always spoke about kalosis/corrective punishment. Perhaps that's a slight hint? :mshock:
Yes :HeartThrob: , This corrective punishment is the chastening of the Lord though the rods of men and stripes of men
You know Jesus recieved them punishments but He never commited iniquity ! He was innocent
the covenant God made with David ..
2Sa 7:14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son.
If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: But my mercy shall not depart away
The judgement isn't mercyful; the law is. Sound a bit odd... but I see it that way. Of course the effect is the same. A judge that bends the law is corrupt...
Matthew 12:20 "A battered reed He will not break off, And a smoldering wick He will not put out, Until He leads justice to victory.
:thumbsup: good stuff :icon_flower:
and as we judge we get the same degree of punishment that we instill on others comes back on us
you think this explains some of the chaos in the earth realm ?
Mat 7:2 For
with what judgment(Strong's G2917 - krima ) ye judge(Strong's G2919 - krinō ),
ye shall be judged:
and with what measureStrong's G3354 - metreō ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 1) to measure, to measure out or off
a) any space or distance with a measurer's reed or rule
b)
metaph. to judge according to any rule or standard, to estimate2) to measure out, mete out to, i.e. to give by measure
B could be the Law or laws , dont you think , or no ?
two Laws in effect the firey Law and the Love fulfills the Law
Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Jam 2:8 If ye fulfil the
royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
:HeartThrob:
perhaps akin to Old Norse tafn sacrifice, Latin daps sacrificial feast, Greek dapan* expenditure, daptein to devour
another way a pagan notion of hell was introduced into the English speaking christian mindset.
The sacrificial feast is directly related to the pagan concept of hell, ie the immortality of the soul
The Kings James Bible uses the word "damn" in the New Testament 453 times; the word does not appear in the Old Testament. The Greek words "apolleia" (destruction or waste), "krino," (judge), "Krima, (judgment or sentence), "KataKrino," (I condemn) are all translated to "damn" in English. The word "damn" comes from the French "damner" via the Latin "damnare," a derivative of the noun "damnum." This originally meant 'loss, harm' (it is the source of the English 'damage'), but the verb damnare soon spread its application to 'pronounce judgment upon,' in both the legal and the theological sense. These meanings (reflected also in the derived 'condemn') followed the verb through Old French into English, which dropped the strict legal sense around the 16th century but has persisted with the theological one and its more profane offshoots. Condemn, damage, indemnity. In other words, the church turned this innocent word into a "curse", when it originally was not profane in any sense and was not used to condemn. Also, ironically, this word is generally acceptable within the church and Bible yet is usually considered profane if used outside the theological script. Here are a few references: 2 Peter 2:3; 2 Peter 2:1; 1 Thess. 2:12 Jerrell Owens • 4 months Ago
Word Origin & History
damn
late 13c., "to condemn," from O.Fr. damner , derivative of L. verb damnare , from noun damnum "damage, loss, hurt." Latin word evolved a legal meaning of "pronounce judgment upon." Theological sense is first recorded early 14c.; the optative expletive use likely is as old. Damn and its derivatives generally were avoided in print from 18c. to c.1930s (the famous line in "Gone with the Wind" was a breakthrough and required much effort by the studio). To be not worth a damn is from 1817. Damn Yankee , characteristic Southern U.S. term for "Northerner," is attested from 1812.
==> It's said Augustine was much milder than today's ETs. I wonder what the KJV translator meant by the word damned. The old Latin meaning or the present meaning.
dam, dam-na'-shun, dam'-na-bl:
These words have undergone a change of meaning since the King James Version was made. They are derived from Latin damnare = "to inflict a loss," "to condemn," and that was their original meaning in English Now they denote exclusively the idea of everlasting punishment in hell. It is often difficult to determine which meaning was intended by the translators in the King James Version. They have been excluded altogether from the Revised Version (British and American). The words for which they stand in the King James Version are:
(1) apoleia, "destruction," translated "damnable" and "damnation" only in 2 Peter 2:1-3 (the Revised Version (British and American) "destructive," "destruction"). False prophets taught doctrines calculated to destroy others, and themselves incurred the sentence of destruction such as overtook the fallen angels, the world in the Deluge, and the cities of the Plain. Apoleia occurs otherwise 16 times in the New Testament, and is always translated in the King James Version and the Revised Version (British and American) by either "perdition" or "destruction":
twice of waste of treasure (Matthew 26:8 = Mark 14:4); twice of the beast that comes out of the abyss and goes into perdition (Revelation 17:8,11). In all other cases, it refers to men, and defines the destiny that befalls them as the result of sin: Judas is the "son of perdition" (John 17:12). Peter consigns Simon Magus and his money to perdition (Acts 8:20). Some men are "vessels of wrath fitted unto destruction" (Romans 9:22), and others, their "end is perdition" (Philippians 3:19). It is the antithesis of salvation (Hebrews 10:39; Philippians 1:28). Of the two ways of life, one leads to destruction (Matthew 7:13). Whether it is utter, final and irretrievable destruction is not stated.
(2) krino, translated "damned" only in the King James Version of 2 Thessalonians 2:12 (the Revised Version (British and American) "judged") means "to judge" in the widest sense, "to form an opinion" (Luke 7:43), and forensically "to test and try" an accused person. It can only acquire the sense of "judging guilty" or "condemning" from the context.
(3) katakrino, translated "damned" only in the King James Version of Mark 16:16; Romans 14:23 ("condemned" in the Revised Version (British and American)), means properly "to give judgment against" or "to condemn" and is so translated 17 times in the King James Version and always in the Revised Version (British and American).
(4) krisis, translated "damnation" in the King James Version of Matthew 23:33; Mark 3:29; John 5:29 (the Revised Version (British and American) "judgment," but in Mark 3:29, "sin" for hamartema), means (a) judgment in general like krino, and is so used about 17 times, besides 14 times in the phrase "day of judgment"; (b) "condemnation," like katakrino, about 14 times.
(5) krima, translated in the King James Version "damnation" 7 times (Matthew 23:14 = Mark 12:40 = Luke 20:47; Romans 3:8; 13:2; 1 Corinthians 11:29; 1 Timothy 5:12), "condemnation" 6 times, "judgment" 13 times, "law" and "avenged" once each; in the Revised Version (British and American) "condemnation" 9 t (Matthew 23:14 only inserted in margin), "judgment" 17 times, and once in margin, "lawsuit" and "sentence" once each. "Judgment" may be neutral, an impartial act of the judge weighing the evidence (so in Matthew 7:2; Acts 24:25; Romans 11:33; Hebrews 6:2; 1 Peter 4:17; Revelation 20:4) and "lawsuit" (1 Corinthians 6:7); or it may be inferred from the context that judgment is unto condemnation (so in Romans 2:2,3; 5:16; Galatians 5:10; 2 Peter 2:3; Revelation 17:1; 18:20, and the Revised Version (British and American) Romans 13:2; 1 Corinthians 11:29). In places where krima and krisis are rightly translated "condemnation," and where "judgment" regarded as an accomplished fact involves a sentence of guilt, they together with katakrino define the relation of a person to the supreme authority, as that of a criminal, found and held guilty, and liable to punishment. So the Roman empire regarded Jesus Christ, and the thief on the cross (Luke 23:40; 24:20).
But generally these words refer to man as a sinner against God, judged guilty by Him, and liable to the just penalty of sin. They imply nothing further as to the nature of the penalty or the state of man undergoing it, nor as to its duration. Nor does the word "eternal" (aion, aionios, often wrongly translated "everlasting" in the King James Version) when added to them, determine the question of duration. Condemnation is an act in the moral universe, which cannot be determined under categories of time.
These terms define the action of God in relation to man's conduct, as that of the Supreme Judge, but they express only one aspect of that relation which is only fully conceived, when coordinated with the more fundamental idea of God's Fatherhood.
ACV1Cor 3
15 If any man's work will be burned, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, but so as through fire.
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 06, 2011, 07:38:50 PMQuote from: rosered on June 06, 2011, 06:27:45 PMQuote from: WhiteWings on June 06, 2011, 06:21:07 PMQuote from: rosered on June 06, 2011, 05:57:25 PMGood study WW , your doing great work these days ! :thumbsup: They are very helpful .... :HeartThrob: Do you think God / Jesus judges acts by giving power to his chosen ones ?
Jesus and His angels. Because the elect are going to rule the millenia kingdom it's not impossible that the elect are the angels = messenger of the word. YLTRevelation 14 10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, that hath been mingled unmixed in the cup of His anger, and he shall be tormented in fire and brimstone before the holy messengers, and before the Lamb,
Yes , you makes sense , but dont you think its possible that the fire , is their fiery trails of torment they are going though to humble and save them and the brimstone is the purifying process they are experiencing to change ? for some it sure could happen me thinks :HeartThrob:.
The Bible speaks about a fiery law. A literal translation is "fire law". I had a thought about this last week. What if LoF means: Be fully subjected to or submerged in the law? LoF = law That law burn with brimstone. Brimstone is nearly equal to God. So the law is not just a law; it's (purifying) divine law. :dontknow:
:cloud9: Amen, yes he is :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
And WW, I think that's exactly what it means. The baptism in water is a type of being baptized into His death, while the baptism in the Spirit is as being baptized into His life. Death comes thru sin, which was defined by the law. The law condemns us, the Spirit pardons us. Court adjourned. :winkgrin:
Jesus said, speaking as the Spirit only what He heard His Father say, I (the Spirit) don't condemn you, the Word (letter) condemns you. There is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ (the Spirit) Jesus.
Add to that, a lake of fire, is literally the top of an active volcano. Lava is as His love, ie. the elements (or elemental principles of Heb. 6) melting with a fervent heat, the overflowing scourge that heals or makes whole, everything it touches. There is a direct witness with the male that plants the seed, also. My :2c:
Quote from: Cardinal on June 07, 2011, 03:07:44 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 06, 2011, 07:38:50 PM[The Bible speaks about a fiery law. A literal translation is "fire law". I had a thought about this last week. What if LoF means: Be fully subjected to or submerged in the law? LoF = law That law burn with brimstone. Brimstone is nearly equal to God. So the law is not just a law; it's (purifying) divine law. :dontknow:
:cloud9: Amen, yes he is :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
And WW, I think that's exactly what it means.
Seems to align with the stuff in this post/thread (http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/members_lounge/lake_fire_molten_sea_glass_laver_9507.msg123219.html#msg123219) so some progress is made.
Isn't God sitting in the Holies of Holies on the Ark as His judgement seat?
The problem is that the Ark never was in the 2nd Temple. So if God sits on the Ark then the Temple was not the house of God.
And that gives all sort of other problems (?)
Damn another off-topic thread :icon_jokercolor:
Good Stuff :thumbsup:
the first cleansing God sent the Flood , this water = washing water of the Word and literal flood in the days of Noah
Peter describes it well , Jesus speaks of it as in the days of Noah/Noe so shall the coming of the Son of Man be
2nd cleansing by Fire = the presence of God ''SPIRIT''
two places this ones the water baptism described
ESV 1Peter 3
18For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,
19in which[c] he went and proclaimed[d] to the spirits in prison, 20because[e] they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.
21Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.
Now the 2nd baptism by fire now do we take this literally ??? or is this a spiritual language :dontknow:
I just noticed its in 1st Peter 3WATER and in 2nd peter 3 FIRE wow what a catch !! :HeartThrob:lol
to me anyways
2 Peter 3
The Day of the Lord Will Come
1This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, 2 that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles,
3knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.
WOW ITS TRUE , they dont see Him ...
4 They will say, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation."
5For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, 6and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.
7But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
8But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you,[a] not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.[c]
11Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, 12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! 13But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
Final Words
14 Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace.
15And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
16as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. 17You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.
grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
:HeartThrob:
Quote from: rosered on June 07, 2011, 06:29:19 PM
Peter describes it well , Jesus speaks of it as in the days of Noah/Noe so shall the coming of the Son of Man be
2nd cleansing by Fire = the presence of God "SPIRIT"
QuoteNow the 2nd baptism by fire now do we take this literally ??? or is this a spiritual language :dontknow:
I just noticed its in 1st Peter 3WATER and in 2nd peter 3 FIRE wow what a catch !! :HeartThrob:lol
to me anyways
Let's take this one step further. A step many won't like :winkgrin:
Pentecost was baptism by fire. The fire was the HS.
Above we saw law=fire.
In Greek (and some English translations) the HS is called "It".
I always wondered what exactly the HS is...
But maybe: HS=Fire=Law
Then for example laws written on our heart simply means the HS inside of you.
But it conflicts with God is a consuming fire.
:dontknow:
:cloud9: Well here's another step many won't like, but it helps clarify a lot of scriptures. There is a difference between the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost (Read Matt. 7:34).
One comes as water, and one comes as fire. Both cleanse, but one purifies. One is symbolic of being conformed into the image of His death (baptism in water), one is symbolic of being conformed into the image of His life (baptism in fire/HG). As such, the Holy Spirit is as, THE ANOINTING FOR BURIAL.
Back to the thread where we are discussing whether or not He's in everyone, under the law which cannot be broken, you were unclean FOR SEVEN DAYS and had to go to a priest, if you came into contact with a dead body.
Well, Adam (corporate Adam) died seven years/days ago, and the Holy Spirit has been there always as the anointing for burial, as Adam awaits the Holy Ghost raising "him" up into newness of life, making him clean. Notice there was no choice given in going to a priest or not. He will NEVER leave us nor forsake us. Never, doesn't have a start or stop period, ie. before I was "saved" or after.
Before hackles are up, I am NOT saying salvation is not necessary, I'm just speaking about the principles of it He has shown me, opening my understanding of it. :2c:
Quote from: Cardinal on June 07, 2011, 08:48:31 PM:cloud9: Well here's another step many won't like,
I would like a more direct answer. (even in PM)
Does my HS = Law thought makes any sense?
Quotebut it helps clarify a lot of scriptures. There is a difference between the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost (Read Matt. 7:34).
I have no clue where you get that from that verse.
I always assumed Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost are 2 names for the same. Just as Pure Spirit is another name for the same. (The Christian Bible)
BTW Spirit and Ghost are the same word in Greek. KJV uses both names. 20 other translations I checked only use Spirit.
Mth7:34 ?
Not there
me too. Card must have meant a different scrip (or I'm using the wrong Bibles :laughing7:).
Isnt "Ghost" translational, middle ages (KJV) from "Spirit"? :2c:
Quote from: jabcat on June 07, 2011, 09:49:07 PM
me too. Card must have meant a different scrip (or I'm using the wrong Bibles :laughing7:).
Prolly she reading the CAB version :winkgrin:
QuoteIsnt "Ghost" translational, middle ages (KJV) from "Spirit"? :2c:
KJV uses both.
0x Holy Ghost in OT
89x Holy Ghost in NT
3x Holy Spirit in OT
4x Holy Spirit in NT
But James, it's not only Ghost/Spirit. TCB uses the word Pure instead of Holy.
oh yeah, i know. i've got a little study i'm going to look at later on it...maybe it will explain where 'pure' comes from
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 07, 2011, 07:22:27 PM
Quote from: rosered on June 07, 2011, 06:29:19 PM
Peter describes it well , Jesus speaks of it as in the days of Noah/Noe so shall the coming of the Son of Man be
2nd cleansing by Fire = the presence of God "SPIRIT"
QuoteNow the 2nd baptism by fire now do we take this literally ??? or is this a spiritual language :dontknow:
I just noticed its in 1st Peter 3WATER and in 2nd peter 3 FIRE wow what a catch !! :HeartThrob:lol
to me anyways
Let's take this one step further. A step many won't like :winkgrin:
Pentecost was baptism by fire. The fire was the HS.
Above we saw law=fire.
In Greek (and some English translations) the HS is called "It".
I always wondered what exactly the HS is...
But maybe: HS=Fire=Law
Then for example laws written on our heart simply means the HS inside of you.
But it conflicts with God is a consuming fire.
:dontknow:
How does it conflict WW ? :icon_flower:
Quote from: rosered on June 07, 2011, 10:28:49 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 07, 2011, 07:22:27 PM
Quote from: rosered on June 07, 2011, 06:29:19 PM
Peter describes it well , Jesus speaks of it as in the days of Noah/Noe so shall the coming of the Son of Man be
2nd cleansing by Fire = the presence of God "SPIRIT"
QuoteNow the 2nd baptism by fire now do we take this literally ??? or is this a spiritual language :dontknow:
I just noticed its in 1st Peter 3WATER and in 2nd peter 3 FIRE wow what a catch !! :HeartThrob:lol
to me anyways
Let's take this one step further. A step many won't like :winkgrin:
Pentecost was baptism by fire. The fire was the HS.
Above we saw law=fire.
In Greek (and some English translations) the HS is called "It".
I always wondered what exactly the HS is...
But maybe: HS=Fire=Law
Then for example laws written on our heart simply means the HS inside of you.
But it conflicts with God is a consuming fire.
:dontknow:
How does it conflict WW ? :icon_flower:
I'll PM you because I'm not allowed to answer that here.
Ok Thanks WW :icon_flower:
It may be able to be answered if done so scripturally and artfully - without resorting to "waving a red flag to a bull" catch phrases. :dontknow:
If not, then yes, PM's best. :thumbsup:
Quote from: jabcat on June 08, 2011, 12:34:20 AM
It may be able to be answered if done so scripturally and artfully - without resorting to "waving a red flag to a bull" catch phrases. :dontknow:
If not, then yes, PM's best. :thumbsup:
LOL RIGHT :thumbsup: WW must have went to bed , he is on the other side of the POND :laughing7:
well, doesn't seem he sleeps much, so maybe soon :happy3:
:cloud9: Sorry guys.....I knew as soon as I laid my head on the pillow it was the wrong script reference, but I only had 2 hours sleep yesterday and the pillow won. :laughing7: Try this.....
John 7:39 KJV (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
IF Jab is ok with it, I will add more when I don't have to go to work. PM me Jab.
Quote from: Cardinal on June 08, 2011, 02:31:53 AM
:cloud9: Sorry guys.....I knew as soon as I laid my head on the pillow it was the wrong script reference, but I only had 2 hours sleep yesterday and the pillow won. :laughing7: Try this.....
John 7:39 KJV (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
IF Jab is ok with it, I will add more when I don't have to go to work. PM me Jab.
:thumbsup: got cha Card ,
seems this is true also , the Holy / ghost spirit was , and was not with men when Christ was here , it was not , and after Christ died it revived again ....
but I sure dont know , some scriptures confuse me more than make things clear ....
Tts 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by
the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Cardinal on June 08, 2011, 02:31:53 AM
:cloud9: Sorry guys.....I knew as soon as I laid my head on the pillow it was the wrong script reference, but I only had 2 hours sleep yesterday and the pillow won. :laughing7: Try this.....
John 7:39 KJV (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
IF Jab is ok with it, I will add more when I don't have to go to work. PM me Jab.
We'll be watching for it. :cool:
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 06, 2011, 06:21:07 PM
Quote from: rosered on June 06, 2011, 05:57:25 PM
Good study WW , your doing great work these days ! :thumbsup:
They are very helpful .... :HeartThrob:
Do you think God / Jesus judges acts by giving power to his chosen ones ?
Jesus and His angels. Because the elect are going to rule the millenia kingdom it's not impossible that the elect are the angels = messenger of the word.
YLTRevelation 14
10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, that hath been mingled unmixed in the cup of His anger, and he shall be tormented in fire and brimstone before the holy messengers, and before the Lamb,
Good considering! :bigGrin:
Quote from: rosered on June 08, 2011, 01:48:35 AM
Quote from: jabcat on June 08, 2011, 12:34:20 AM
It may be able to be answered if done so scripturally and artfully - without resorting to "waving a red flag to a bull" catch phrases. :dontknow:
If not, then yes, PM's best. :thumbsup:
LOL RIGHT :thumbsup: WW must have went to bed , he is on the other side of the POND :laughing7:
I've arisen from my slumber! And RoseY get it right for at least once! The word is LAKE :icon_flower:
PS I've read your PM. I'm processing it now and will answer.
Quote from: jabcat on June 08, 2011, 12:34:20 AM
It may be able to be answered if done so scripturally and artfully - without resorting to "waving a red flag to a bull" catch phrases. :dontknow:
If not, then yes, PM's best. :thumbsup:
This is one of the situations I PMed you about James.
I could use scripture (and other stuff) lots of it, but that would make it only more against the rules.
But I'm sure most already know what's being chatted about in PM. Sou hows that for art?
:icon_jokercolor:
:wink2:
Quote from: Cardinal on June 08, 2011, 02:31:53 AM
:cloud9: Sorry guys.....I knew as soon as I laid my head on the pillow it was the wrong script reference, but I only had 2 hours sleep yesterday and the pillow won. :laughing7: Try this.....
John 7:39 KJV (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Ghost and Spirit are exactly the same word is Greek according to Mr. Strong. Both are pneuma.
However in ISA2 http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/joh7.pdf
Spirit=pneumatos
Ghost=pneuma
I only checked this one verse. Difference in manuscripts?
TCB translates it as:
Spirit and the second one as Pure Spirit.
The way I read that verse it's exactly the same thing.
(TCB) Now He said this about the Spirit, which those believed in Him, were about to get (for the Pure Spirit hadn't been given yet, because Yesu hadn't been glorified yet).
QuoteIF Jab is ok with it, I will add more when I don't have to go to work. PM me Jab.
No work? You got lots of works scheduled for today. Huge moderation backlog. Answer all your "gotta run, I'll add more later" posts.
:cloud9: One problem. Read the text prior to the one I gave. It was referring to believers who had already received Him as Messiah, but were unaware they needed to receive the Holy Ghost. It says right there the Holy Ghost had not yet been given because He had not been glorified yet, which He had to die to accomplish.
So my point is, they already the Spirit, but they had yet to get the Holy Ghost. Same Spirit, but different functions.
And I'll get back to you on all those "moderation issues" :laughing7:
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 07, 2011, 07:22:27 PM
Quote from: rosered on June 07, 2011, 06:29:19 PM
Peter describes it well , Jesus speaks of it as in the days of Noah/Noe so shall the coming of the Son of Man be
2nd cleansing by Fire = the presence of God "SPIRIT"
QuoteNow the 2nd baptism by fire now do we take this literally ??? or is this a spiritual language :dontknow:
I just noticed its in 1st Peter 3WATER and in 2nd peter 3 FIRE wow what a catch !! :HeartThrob:lol
to me anyways
Let's take this one step further. A step many won't like :winkgrin:
Pentecost was baptism by fire. The fire was the HS.
Above we saw law=fire.
In Greek (and some English translations) the HS is called "It".
I always wondered what exactly the HS is...
But maybe: HS=Fire=Law
Then for example laws written on our heart simply means the HS inside of you.
But it conflicts with God is a consuming fire.
:dontknow:
WW why does the HS inside of us conflict with God being a consumming fire?
Gods consumes all the dross within us by the HS
Quote from: pneuma on June 08, 2011, 05:01:45 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 07, 2011, 07:22:27 PM
Quote from: rosered on June 07, 2011, 06:29:19 PM
Peter describes it well , Jesus speaks of it as in the days of Noah/Noe so shall the coming of the Son of Man be
2nd cleansing by Fire = the presence of God "SPIRIT"
QuoteNow the 2nd baptism by fire now do we take this literally ??? or is this a spiritual language :dontknow:
I just noticed its in 1st Peter 3WATER and in 2nd peter 3 FIRE wow what a catch !! :HeartThrob:lol
to me anyways
Let's take this one step further. A step many won't like :winkgrin:
Pentecost was baptism by fire. The fire was the HS.
Above we saw law=fire.
In Greek (and some English translations) the HS is called "It".
I always wondered what exactly the HS is...
But maybe: HS=Fire=Law
Then for example laws written on our heart simply means the HS inside of you.
But it conflicts with God is a consuming fire.
:dontknow:
WW why does the HS inside of us conflict with God being a consumming fire?
Gods consumes all the dross within us by the HS
Thats how I see it as a dual purpose too ........ keeps clean within so Holy Spirit remains within us and the man of sin cast out by overwhelming destruction :HeartThrob:
1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
If any man defile the temple of God,
him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.
Strong's G907 - baptizō 1) to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
2) to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe
3) to overwhelm
"Note on Baptism in Ac. Baptism in water (such as John's) is distinguished from baptism with the Holy Spirit (i. 5, etc.). Those who receive the latter, however, may also be baptized in water (cf. xi. 16 with x. 47); and there is one example of people who had previously received John's baptism receiving Christian baptism as a preliminary to receiving the Spirit (xix. 3 ff.).
John's was a baptism of repentance (xiii. 24; xix. 4), as was also Christian baptism (ii. 38), but as John's pointed forward to Jesus (xix. 4), it became obsolete when He came. Christian baptism followed faith in the Lord Jesus (xvi. 31 ff.); it was associated with His name (ii. 38; viii. 16, etc.), which was invoked by the person baptized (xxii. 16); it signified the remission (ii. 38) or washing away of sins (xxii. 16); sometimes it preceded (ii. 38; viii. 15 ff.; xix. 5), sometimes followed (x. 47 f.) the receiving of the Spirit." (F. F. Bruce. The Acts of the Apostles [Greek Text Commentary], London: Tyndale, 1952, p. 98, n. 1.)
This word should not be confused with baptô (911).
The clearest example that shows the meaning of baptizo is a text from the Greek poet and physician Nicander, who lived about 200 B.C. It is a recipe for making pickles and is helpful because it uses both words. Nicander says that in order to make a pickle, the vegetable should first be 'dipped' (baptô) into boiling water and then 'baptised' (baptizô) in the vinegar solution. Both verbs concern the immersing of vegetables in a solution. But the first is temporary. The second, the act of baptising the vegetable, produces a permanent change.
PERMANENT CHANGE / That twinkling of and eye change 1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.
or how else can the incorruptible dwell in a consuming fire ??
Am I hearing that the Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit are two different entities and are two different functions? Where is it that I can find this? I do not see or understand this?
Ghost/Spirit G4151 pneuma From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit
And also about a "second baptism." I find only 'John's baptism, Act 19:2 he said unto them, `The Holy Spirit did ye receive--having believed?' and they said unto him, `But we did not even hear whether there is any Holy Spirit;'
Act 19:3 and he said unto them, `To what, then, were ye baptized?' and they said, `To John's baptism.'
John's baptism as I reason it, was his mission, his calling, John was a voice crying in the wilderness, to open the way. When Jesus came "Johns baptism" was not needed.
I understand there to be "one baptism," Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Quote from: micah7:9 on June 08, 2011, 06:00:01 PM
Am I hearing that the Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit are two different entities and are two different functions? Where is it that I can find this? I do not see or understand this?
Read the article/link. And ask Cardinal because I started searching 8 hours ago after Card wrote something about a difference.
QuoteAnd also about a "second baptism." I find only 'John's baptism, Act 19:2
CLVLuke 316 John answers, saying to all, "I, indeed, in water am baptizing you. Yet coming is One stronger than I, the thong of Whose sandals I am not competent to loose. He will be baptizing you in holy spirit and fire,
Maybe this will be of some help
Could be that the HS is the life of the Father and the HG is the life of the son.
Scriptures say that God gave Jesus a LIFE of his own.
Thus we today get a double portion of LIFE. The LIFE of the Father and the LIFE of the Son.
Scott,
Does that means Father's Life isn't perfect enough so we need the Son's life to make it better?
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 08, 2011, 06:18:16 PM
Scott,
Does that means Father's Life isn't perfect enough so we need the Son's life to make it better?
No it just means we get a double portion of LIFE.
11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me. 10And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.
What's the use of a double perfect life that lasts 2 eternities?
Not even Father or Son can improve perfection.
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 08, 2011, 06:07:18 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on June 08, 2011, 06:00:01 PM
Am I hearing that the Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit are two different entities and are two different functions? Where is it that I can find this? I do not see or understand this?
Read the article/link. And ask Cardinal because I started searching 8 hours ago after Card wrote something about a difference.
QuoteAnd also about a "second baptism." I find only 'John's baptism, Act 19:2
CLVLuke 3
16 John answers, saying to all, "I, indeed, in water am baptizing you. Yet coming is One stronger than I, the thong of Whose sandals I am not competent to loose. He will be baptizing you in holy spirit and fire,
Yes, but I do not see "John's baptism" having anything to do with THE baptism. All that John's baptism produced is symbolism for the teachers of theology. If there is more than ONE BAPTISM, then Eph. 4 is in error?
Quote from: pneuma on June 08, 2011, 06:12:27 PM
Maybe this will be of some help
Could be that the HS is the life of the Father and the HG is the life of the son.
Scriptures say that God gave Jesus a LIFE of his own.
Thus we today get a double portion of LIFE. The LIFE of the Father and the LIFE of the Son.
Should you be able to show me in the Word of God that the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost are not the same, then I will say your statement, "Could be that the HS is the life of the Father and the HG is the life of the son." has no premise at all. Do not want to cause discord, but I do not hear that.
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 08, 2011, 06:32:03 PM
What's the use of a double perfect life that lasts 2 eternities?
Not even Father or Son can improve perfection.
Well answer me this, is the HG the same as the HS?
Quote from: pneuma on June 08, 2011, 06:48:26 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 08, 2011, 06:32:03 PM
What's the use of a double perfect life that lasts 2 eternities?
Not even Father or Son can improve perfection.
Well answer me this, is the HG the same as the HS?
8 hours ago I would have said yes. Now I say: I have to look deeper into it.
Quote from: micah7:9 on June 08, 2011, 06:40:45 PM
Quote from: pneuma on June 08, 2011, 06:12:27 PM
Maybe this will be of some help
Could be that the HS is the life of the Father and the HG is the life of the son.
Scriptures say that God gave Jesus a LIFE of his own.
Thus we today get a double portion of LIFE. The LIFE of the Father and the LIFE of the Son.
Should you be able to show me in the Word of God that the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost are not the same, then I will say your statement, "Could be that the HS is the life of the Father and the HG is the life of the son." has no premise at all. Do not want to cause discord, but I do not hear that.
For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Now read cards posts #30 and #38
Quote from: pneuma on June 08, 2011, 06:48:26 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 08, 2011, 06:32:03 PM
What's the use of a double perfect life that lasts 2 eternities?
Not even Father or Son can improve perfection.
Well answer me this, is the HG the same as the HS?
An absolute yes.
Quote from: pneuma on June 08, 2011, 06:54:05 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on June 08, 2011, 06:40:45 PM
Quote from: pneuma on June 08, 2011, 06:12:27 PM
Maybe this will be of some help
Could be that the HS is the life of the Father and the HG is the life of the son.
Scriptures say that God gave Jesus a LIFE of his own.
Thus we today get a double portion of LIFE. The LIFE of the Father and the LIFE of the Son.
Should you be able to show me in the Word of God that the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost are not the same, then I will say your statement, "Could be that the HS is the life of the Father and the HG is the life of the son." has no premise at all. Do not want to cause discord, but I do not hear that.
For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Now read cards posts #30 and #38
Have read #30 and #38 thats why I asking where do you get this info?
Quote from: micah7:9 on June 08, 2011, 07:50:36 PM
Quote from: pneuma on June 08, 2011, 06:54:05 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on June 08, 2011, 06:40:45 PM
Quote from: pneuma on June 08, 2011, 06:12:27 PM
Maybe this will be of some help
Could be that the HS is the life of the Father and the HG is the life of the son.
Scriptures say that God gave Jesus a LIFE of his own.
Thus we today get a double portion of LIFE. The LIFE of the Father and the LIFE of the Son.
Should you be able to show me in the Word of God that the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost are not the same, then I will say your statement, "Could be that the HS is the life of the Father and the HG is the life of the son." has no premise at all. Do not want to cause discord, but I do not hear that.
For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Now read cards posts #30 and #38
Have read #30 and #38 thats why I asking where do you get this info?
For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 08, 2011, 06:32:03 PM
What's the use of a double perfect life that lasts 2 eternities?
Not even Father or Son can improve perfection.
:icon_queen:
So why did they bother to create us, if they were already content in their perfection :winkgrin:
Quote from: thinktank on June 08, 2011, 08:07:35 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 08, 2011, 06:32:03 PM
What's the use of a double perfect life that lasts 2 eternities?
Not even Father or Son can improve perfection.
:icon_queen: So why did they bother to create us, if they were already content in their perfection :winkgrin:
In your case they created the perfect fool :wink2:
(okay, bring it on...)
:cloud9: PS. Love the heart avatar WW.....very appropriate..... :thumbsup:
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 08, 2011, 08:10:27 PM
Quote from: thinktank on June 08, 2011, 08:07:35 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 08, 2011, 06:32:03 PM
What's the use of a double perfect life that lasts 2 eternities?
Not even Father or Son can improve perfection.
:icon_queen: So why did they bother to create us, if they were already content in their perfection :winkgrin:
In your case they created the perfect fool :wink2:
(okay, bring it on...)
Thank you :winkgrin:
1 corinthians
26 Now remember what you were, my friends, when God called you. From the human point of view few of you were wise or powerful or of high social standing.27
God purposely chose what the world considers nonsense in order to shame the wise, and he chose what the world considers weak in order to shame the powerful.28 He chose what the world looks down on and despises and thinks is nothing,
in order to destroy what the world thinks is important.29 This means that no one can boast in God's presence.30 But God has brought you into union with Christ Jesus, and God has made Christ to be our wisdom. By him we are put right with God; we become God's holy people and are set free.31
Christ the Power and the Wisdom of God
1 Corinthians
18 For the message about Christ's death on the cross is nonsense to those who are being lost; but for us who are being saved it is God's power.19 (E)The scripture says,
I will destroy the wisdom of the wise
and set aside the understanding of the scholars.
20 (F)So then, where does that leave the wise? or the scholars? or the skillful debaters of this world? God has shown that this world's wisdom is foolishness!
21 (G)For God in his wisdom made it impossible for people to know him by means of their own wisdom. Instead, by means of the so-called
foolish message we preach, God decided to save those who believe.
Quote from: Cardinal on June 08, 2011, 08:20:59 PM
:cloud9: PS. Love the heart avatar WW.....very appropriate..... :thumbsup:
I forgot to create an avatar for today's festival --> Giving of the Torah
So I quickly scaled down something. A heart melting ice...
Quote from: Cardinal on June 07, 2011, 03:07:44 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 06, 2011, 07:38:50 PMQuote from: rosered on June 06, 2011, 06:27:45 PMQuote from: WhiteWings on June 06, 2011, 06:21:07 PMQuote from: rosered on June 06, 2011, 05:57:25 PMGood study WW , your doing great work these days ! :thumbsup: They are very helpful .... :HeartThrob: Do you think God / Jesus judges acts by giving power to his chosen ones ?
Jesus and His angels. Because the elect are going to rule the millenia kingdom it's not impossible that the elect are the angels = messenger of the word. YLTRevelation 14 10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, that hath been mingled unmixed in the cup of His anger, and he shall be tormented in fire and brimstone before the holy messengers, and before the Lamb,
Yes , you makes sense , but dont you think its possible that the fire , is their fiery trails of torment they are going though to humble and save them and the brimstone is the purifying process they are experiencing to change ? for some it sure could happen me thinks :HeartThrob:.
The Bible speaks about a fiery law. A literal translation is "fire law". I had a thought about this last week. What if LoF means: Be fully subjected to or submerged in the law? LoF = law That law burn with brimstone. Brimstone is nearly equal to God. So the law is not just a law; it's (purifying) divine law. :dontknow:
:cloud9: Amen, yes he is :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
And WW, I think that's exactly what it means. The baptism in water is a type of being baptized into His death, while the baptism in the Spirit is as being baptized into His life. Death comes thru sin, which was defined by the law. The law condemns us, the Spirit pardons us. Court adjourned. :winkgrin:
Then why is LoF called 2nd death instead of 2nd Life? --> Lake of Life -> LoL :icon_jokercolor:
'Cuse the bible says so. Rev 20:14 and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire--this is the second death;
Wait a minute, I been taken, spoofed, embarassed. I should have know that it was a WW post :icon_jokercolor: LoL :mblush:
Quote from: micah7:9 on June 09, 2011, 02:50:06 AM
'Cuse the bible says so. Rev 20:14 and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire--this is the second death;
Wait a minute, I been taken, spoofed, embarassed. I should have know that it was a WW post :icon_jokercolor: LoL :mblush:
:mblush:
Signs and symbols....through trusting on Him. Those who have ears to hear will hear. Those with eyes to see wills see. God is Spirit
Joh 4:24 God is spirit, and those who are worshiping Him must be worshiping in spirit and truth." Joh 6:63 the spirit it is that is giving life; the flesh doth not profit anything; the sayings that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life;
Quote from: micah7:9 on June 09, 2011, 02:50:06 AM
'Cuse the bible says so. Rev 20:14 and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire--this is the second death;
Wait a minute, I been taken, spoofed, embarassed. I should have know that it was a WW post :icon_jokercolor: LoL :mblush:
I'm very much aware of that verse Micah. The longest threads on this forum are about that verse.
It's just that brimstone (the stuff that lake burns with) has all sort of positive qualities.
Then why is it associated with death instead of healing/life/purification/etc.
For me it's just like I'm redecorating my house and don't mention how great my new furniture and floor is, but only keep nagging about the $, work and old junk I threw out.
Remember Revelation is a book of signs.
So is LoF.
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 09, 2011, 07:19:18 AM
Quote from: micah7:9 on June 09, 2011, 02:50:06 AM
'Cuse the bible says so. Rev 20:14 and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire--this is the second death;
Wait a minute, I been taken, spoofed, embarassed. I should have know that it was a WW post :icon_jokercolor: LoL :mblush:
I'm very much aware of that verse Micah. The longest threads on this forum are about that verse.
It's just that brimstone (the stuff that lake burns with) has all sort of positive qualities.
Then why is it associated with death instead of healing/life/purification/etc.
For me it's just like I'm redecorating my house and don't mention how great my new furniture and floor is, but only keep nagging about the $, work and old junk I threw out.
Remember Revelation is a book of signs.
So is LoF.
" the book of Revelation is a positive book, all sorts of positive qualities.
Then why it's called 2nd death instead of the more positive 2nd life?
Maybe this discussion doesn't belong in this thread and we should continue here: http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/discussions_universal_salvation/the_lake_fire_or_le_lac_de_feu_8145.msg95855.html#msg95855
I think that thread presents a lot of idea's. (I think the thread is from before you joined?)
:cloud9: Maybe......it's because the first death we had no say in (sin brought death), but the 2nd death as a positive burning up of all things in us that oppose Him, comes with a choice of dying to self.....OR NOT. My :2c:
OR NOT it is then because those cast in LoF aren't the sainty types :winkgrin:
OTOH if LoF really represents the law then the saints already went trough it because if I take the Temple (the real building) as an example the priests where not allowed to enter certain parts of the Temple without washing in the Laver (=LoF)
So looking at it that way it's impossible to serve God as a saint/priest without being washed in LoF.....
:2c: :dontknow:
:cloud9: Yes, well I consider that to be true, because there are those that will and do minister to men, but the sons of God He is raising up will minister to GOD Himself, and that requires the baptism of fire.
I think there is a verse that says they do both. They just have to slip in different robes made of Linen or wool.
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 09, 2011, 07:48:32 AM
Then why it's called 2nd death instead of the more positive 2nd life?
Maybe this discussion doesn't belong in this thread and we should continue here: http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/discussions_universal_salvation/the_lake_fire_or_le_lac_de_feu_8145.msg95855.html#msg95855
I think that thread presents a lot of idea's. (I think the thread is from before you joined?)
Nope I was there and in the discussion. I must go back to see the original post on this discussion here to find out how the LOF got into this thread. :bigGrin:
John 7:39
(ASV) But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believed on him were to receive: for the Spirit was not yet given; because Jesus was not yet glorified.
(CLV) Now this He said concerning the spirit which those believing in Him were about to get. For not as yet was holy spirit given, for Jesus is not as yet glorified."
(KJV) (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
(WNT) He referred to the Spirit which those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not bestowed as yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.
(YLT) and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Eph 4:3 being diligent to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of the peace;
Eph 4:4 one body and one Spirit, according as also ye were called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
The (Holy) Spirit has ONE function, why does man persisit to devide?
:cloud9: Maybe because there is one spirit, but diverisities thereof?
Acts 19:1 And it came to pass , that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2 He said unto them , Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized ? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is , on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied .
:cloud9: Please note that they were called disciples, that they believed, and in modern day vernacular they would be called "saved", which is usually defined as, "repenting of our sins and asking the Lord to come in". I have yet to meet anyone who is following Him as a disciple, who does NOT have the HS already, as these men had to have had, yet they hadn't received since they believed. Wonder why that is?
First please just take the "ghost" out of the equation and verse, a ghost is an old fashioned word for spirit, why dont we just throw in "haints." King James has not confused you that much I hope :sigh:
And these disciples were in their understanding in John's baptism, they had not heard of any other baptism or filling. There is only ONE Spirit, only ONE Baptism, ONE Lord..................................ONE> What ever "functions" and diversities look to ONE.
:cloud9: A ghost is a spirit that has lived in a body. A Holy Ghost is a Spirit that has lived in a holy body, which is why we are told in John that they had not received the Holy Ghost yet because Jesus had not yet been glorified (He had to give up the fleshly body). There are spirits that have NEVER lived in a physical body, and therefore they are not ghosts, so no, the words are not the same.
The pattern of two anointings, one inward and one outward, is seen in the construction of the Ark of the Covenant, which is made of craptim wood (our carnality) covered within (inward anointing) and without (outward anointing) by gold, which speaks of the higher nature that is God.
In type, one is water (John's baptism for repentance from dead works), one is fire (day of Pentecost). Blessings....
"A ghost is a spirit that has lived in a body. A Holy Ghost is a Spirit that has lived in a holy body,"
Please lets no let this get way out there. To use the word Ghost as something different from a spirit is well ...... :sigh: