Damned

[WhiteWings]

^ACVMark 16
16 He who believes and is immersed will be saved, but he who does not believe will be damned.

DAMNED
κατακρίνω
katakrinō
Thayer Definition:
1) to give judgment against, to judge worthy of punishment
1a) to condemn
1b) by one's good example to render another's wickedness themore evident and censurable
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from G2596 and G2919
Citing in TDNT: 3:951, 469


κατά
kata
Thayer Definition:
1) down from, through out
2) according to, toward, along
Part of Speech: preposition
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: a primary particle

κρίνω
krinō
Thayer Definition:
1) to separate, put asunder, to pick out, select, choose
2) to approve, esteem, to prefer
3) to be of opinion, deem, think, to be of opinion
4) to determine, resolve, decree
5) to judge
5a) to pronounce an opinion concerning right and wrong
5a1) to be judged, i.e. summoned to trial that one's case may be examined and judgment passed upon it
5b) to pronounce judgment, to subject to censure
5b1) of those who act the part of judges or arbiters in matters of common life, or pass judgment on the deeds and words of others
6) to rule, govern
6a) to preside over with the power of giving judicial decisions, because it was the prerogative of kings and rulers to pass judgment
7) to contend together, of warriors and combatants
7a) to dispute
7b) in a forensic sense
7b1) to go to law, have suit at law
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: perhaps a primitive word
Citing in TDNT: 3:921, 469


^WWMark 16
16 He who believes and is immersed will be saved, but he who does not believe will be accordingly judged.

Compare with:
^ACVLuke 12
48 but he who did not know, and did things worthy of blows, will be beaten little. And to every man to whom much was given, much will be required from him. And to whom they entrust much, they will ask him more abundantly.

Faith is given by the HS; those without faith have been give little. They will be judged within the limitations of that little knowledge.
Bit more about judged here

[WhiteWings]

Merriam Webster

Main Entry:1damn
Pronunciation:dam, *daa(*)m
Function:verb
Inflected Form:-ed/-ing/-s
Etymology:Middle English dampnen, from Old French dampner, from Latin damnare to condemn, from damnum damage, fine, harm, loss; perhaps akin to Old Norse tafn sacrifice, Latin daps sacrificial feast, Greek dapan* expenditure, daptein to devour, Sanskrit dayate he apportions * more at TIDE

transitive verb 
1 a obsolete   : to adjudge (a person) guilty or culpable : sentence judicially  b : to condemn to a punishment or fate : DOOM *if we fail, then we have damned every man to be the slave of fear— B.M.Baruch*
2 a : to doom to everlasting punishment in the future world : consign to perdition : CURSE  b : to bring about the damnation of
3 : to condemn as invalid, illegal, immoral, bad, or harmful : pronounce adverse judgment upon *damning movies for corrupting the minds of young innocents* *spent three months there and returned with a most damning report— A.G.N.Flew*;  specifically   : to condemn (a work of art) as a failure
4 : to bring condemnation or ruin upon : RUIN *the story of a T minister damned by his recognition of the mean emotionalism of his church— J.D.Hart* *a democracy is damned when its leaders are slaves; it is safe when its leaders are not afraid to be free— New Republic*
5 : to invoke damnation upon : swear at by using damn : CURSE —  often used to express annoyance, disgust, or surprise *damn him, he ought to have been careful* *well, I'll be damned*
intransitive verb   : CURSE, SWEAR —  often used interjectionally especially to express annoyance, disgust, or surprise
synonyms see EXECRATE


Note that the sheep and coin also were lost.

[rosered]

  Good study WW , your doing great work  these days !  :thumbsup:


They   are very  helpful .... :HeartThrob:


Do you think God / Jesus judges  acts   by  giving power to his chosen ones ?



Then said Jesus to them again, Peace [be] unto you: as [my] Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 


Jhn 20:22   And when he had said this, he breathed on [them], and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 


Jhn 20:23   Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; [and] whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained. 


remit   

Strong's G863 - aphiēmi 1) to send away

a) to bid going away or depart

1) of a husband divorcing his wife

b) to send forth, yield up, to expire

c) to let go, let alone, let be

1) to disregard

2) to leave, not to discuss now, (a topic)

a) of teachers, writers and speakers

3) to omit, neglect

d) to let go, give up a debt, forgive, to remit

e) to give up, keep no longer

2) to permit, allow, not to hinder, to give up a thing to a person

3) to leave, go way from one

a) in order to go to another place

b) to depart from any one

c) to depart from one and leave him to himself so that all mutual claims are abandoned

d) to desert wrongfully

e) to go away leaving something behind

f) to leave one by not taking him as a companion

g) to leave on dying, leave behind one

h) to leave so that what is left may remain, leave remaining

i) abandon, leave destitute


retain  Strong's G2902 - krateō 1) to have power, be powerful

a) to be chief, be master of, to rule

2) to get possession of

a) to become master of, to obtain

b) to take hold of

c) to take hold of, take, seize

1) to lay hands on one in order to get him into one's power

3) to hold

a) to hold in the hand

b) to hold fast, i.e. not discard or let go

1) to keep carefully and faithfully

c) to continue to hold, to retain

1) of death continuing to hold one

2) to hold in check, restrain


to retain  seems to mean hold back  judgment     where as remit means to leave  to deal with it alone
 

[rosered]

  To me there are only two ways to judge anyone
    with mercy or without mercy  :HeartThrob:   but those who judge with mercy  will also have mercy from the Lord
Mat 5:7 Blessed [are] the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.  :HeartThrob:

[WhiteWings]

  Good study WW , your doing great work  these days !  :thumbsup:


They   are very  helpful .... :HeartThrob:


Do you think God / Jesus judges  acts   by  giving power to his chosen ones ?

Jesus and His angels. Because the elect are going to rule the millenia kingdom it's not impossible that the elect are the angels = messenger of the word.

^YLTRevelation 14
10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, that hath been mingled unmixed in the cup of His anger, and he shall be tormented in fire and brimstone before the holy messengers, and before the Lamb,

[rosered]

  Good study WW , your doing great work  these days !  :thumbsup:


They   are very  helpful .... :HeartThrob:


Do you think God / Jesus judges  acts   by  giving power to his chosen ones ?

Jesus and His angels. Because the elect are going to rule the millenia kingdom it's not impossible that the elect are the angels = messenger of the word.

^YLTRevelation 14
10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, that hath been mingled unmixed in the cup of His anger, and he shall be tormented in fire and brimstone before the holy messengers, and before the Lamb,

   Yes  , you makes sense , but dont you think its possible that   the fire  , is their fiery trails of torment they are going though to humble and save them  and the brimstone  is the purifying process they  are experiencing  to change ?
    for some it sure could happen    me thinks  :HeartThrob:.

[WhiteWings]

To me there are only two ways to judge anyone with mercy or without mercy  :HeartThrob:

There is only one way to correctly judge; according to the law.
A law can be kalosis=corrective or timora=vindictive.
Jesus always spoke about kalosis/corrective punishment. Perhaps that's a slight hint?  :mshock:

[rosered]

To me there are only two ways to judge anyone with mercy or without mercy  :HeartThrob:

There is only one way to correctly judge; according to the law.
A law can be kalosis=corrective or timora=corrective.
Jesus always spoke about kalosis/corrective punishment. Perhaps that's a slight hint?  :mshock:

Yes  :HeartThrob:  , This   corrective  punishment  is the chastening of the Lord  though the rods of men and stripes of men 

You know Jesus  recieved them punishments but He never commited iniquity  ! He was innocent

the covenant God made with David ..
2Sa 7:14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son.

If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: But my mercy shall not depart away


from him, as I took [it] from Saul, whom I put away before thee.

And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

Mat 20:30 And, behold, two blind men sitting by the way side, when they heard that Jesus passed by, cried out, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, [thou] Son of David.

  just some more thoughts  :icon_flower:

[WhiteWings]

To me there are only two ways to judge anyone with mercy or without mercy  :HeartThrob:

There is only one way to correctly judge; according to the law.
A law can be kalosis=corrective or timora=corrective.
Jesus always spoke about kalosis/corrective punishment. Perhaps that's a slight hint?  :mshock:

Yes  :HeartThrob:  , This   corrective  punishment  is the chastening of the Lord  though the rods of men and stripes of men 

You know Jesus  recieved them punishments but He never commited iniquity  ! He was innocent

the covenant God made with David ..
2Sa 7:14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son.

If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: But my mercy shall not depart away

The judgement isn't mercyful; the law is. Sound a bit odd... but I see it that way. Of course the effect is the same. A judge that bends the law is corrupt...

Matthew 12:20 "A battered reed He will not break off, And a smoldering wick He will not put out, Until He leads justice to victory.

[WhiteWings]

  Good study WW , your doing great work  these days !  :thumbsup:


They   are very  helpful .... :HeartThrob:


Do you think God / Jesus judges  acts   by  giving power to his chosen ones ?

Jesus and His angels. Because the elect are going to rule the millenia kingdom it's not impossible that the elect are the angels = messenger of the word.

^YLTRevelation 14
10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, that hath been mingled unmixed in the cup of His anger, and he shall be tormented in fire and brimstone before the holy messengers, and before the Lamb,

   Yes  , you makes sense , but dont you think its possible that   the fire  , is their fiery trails of torment they are going though to humble and save them  and the brimstone  is the purifying process they  are experiencing  to change ?
    for some it sure could happen    me thinks  :HeartThrob:.

The Bible speaks about a fiery law. A literal translation is "fire law".
I had a thought about this last week. What if LoF means: Be fully subjected to or submerged in the law?
LoF = law
That law burn with brimstone. Brimstone is nearly equal to God. So the law is not just a law; it's (purifying) divine law.
:dontknow:

[rosered]

To me there are only two ways to judge anyone with mercy or without mercy  :HeartThrob:

There is only one way to correctly judge; according to the law.
A law can be kalosis=corrective or timora=corrective.
Jesus always spoke about kalosis/corrective punishment. Perhaps that's a slight hint?  :mshock:

Yes  :HeartThrob:  , This   corrective  punishment  is the chastening of the Lord  though the rods of men and stripes of men 

You know Jesus  recieved them punishments but He never commited iniquity  ! He was innocent

the covenant God made with David ..
2Sa 7:14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son.

If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: But my mercy shall not depart away

The judgement isn't mercyful; the law is. Sound a bit odd... but I see it that way. Of course the effect is the same. A judge that bends the law is corrupt...

Matthew 12:20 "A battered reed He will not break off, And a smoldering wick He will not put out, Until He leads justice to victory.

:thumbsup:   good stuff  :icon_flower:

   and as we judge   we get the same degree of punishment  that we  instill  on others comes back on us
  you think this explains some of the chaos in the earth realm ?

Mat 7:2 For with what judgment(Strong's G2917 - krima ) ye judge(Strong's G2919 - krinō ), ye shall be judged: and with what measureStrong's G3354 - metreō  ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
1) to measure, to measure out or off

a) any space or distance with a measurer's reed or rule

b) metaph. to judge according to any rule or standard, to estimate2) to measure out, mete out to, i.e. to give by measure


B   could be the Law  or laws , dont you think , or  no ?

  two Laws in effect the firey Law and the  Love fulfills the Law



Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.


Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.


Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


Jam 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

  :HeartThrob:

[redhotmagma]

perhaps akin to Old Norse tafn sacrifice, Latin daps sacrificial feast, Greek dapan* expenditure, daptein to devour

another way a pagan notion of hell was introduced into the English speaking christian mindset. 

The sacrificial feast is directly related to the pagan concept of hell, ie the immortality of the soul

[WhiteWings]

The Kings James Bible uses the word "damn" in the New Testament 453 times; the word does not appear in the Old Testament. The Greek words "apolleia" (destruction or waste), "krino," (judge), "Krima, (judgment or sentence), "KataKrino," (I condemn) are all translated to "damn" in English. The word "damn" comes from the French "damner" via the Latin "damnare," a derivative of the noun "damnum." This originally meant 'loss, harm' (it is the source of the English 'damage'), but the verb damnare soon spread its application to 'pronounce judgment upon,' in both the legal and the theological sense. These meanings (reflected also in the derived 'condemn') followed the verb through Old French into English, which dropped the strict legal sense around the 16th century but has persisted with the theological one and its more profane offshoots. Condemn, damage, indemnity. In other words, the church turned this innocent word into a "curse", when it originally was not profane in any sense and was not used to condemn. Also, ironically, this word is generally acceptable within the church and Bible yet is usually considered profane if used outside the theological script. Here are a few references: 2 Peter 2:3; 2 Peter 2:1; 1 Thess. 2:12 Jerrell Owens • 4 months Ago



Word Origin & History

damn

late 13c., "to condemn," from O.Fr. damner , derivative of L. verb damnare , from noun damnum  "damage, loss, hurt." Latin word evolved a legal meaning of "pronounce judgment upon." Theological sense is first recorded early 14c.; the optative expletive use likely is as old. Damn  and its derivatives generally were avoided in print from 18c. to c.1930s (the famous line in "Gone with the Wind" was a breakthrough and required much effort by the studio). To be not worth a damn  is from 1817. Damn Yankee , characteristic Southern U.S. term for "Northerner," is attested from 1812.

==> It's said Augustine was much milder than today's ETs. I wonder what the KJV translator meant by the word damned. The old Latin meaning or the present meaning.

[WhiteWings]

dam, dam-na'-shun, dam'-na-bl:

These words have undergone a change of meaning since the King James Version was made. They are derived from Latin damnare = "to inflict a loss," "to condemn," and that was their original meaning in English Now they denote exclusively the idea of everlasting punishment in hell. It is often difficult to determine which meaning was intended by the translators in the King James Version. They have been excluded altogether from the Revised Version (British and American). The words for which they stand in the King James Version are:

(1) apoleia, "destruction," translated "damnable" and "damnation" only in 2 Peter 2:1-3 (the Revised Version (British and American) "destructive," "destruction"). False prophets taught doctrines calculated to destroy others, and themselves incurred the sentence of destruction such as overtook the fallen angels, the world in the Deluge, and the cities of the Plain. Apoleia occurs otherwise 16 times in the New Testament, and is always translated in the King James Version and the Revised Version (British and American) by either "perdition" or "destruction":

twice of waste of treasure (Matthew 26:8 = Mark 14:4); twice of the beast that comes out of the abyss and goes into perdition (Revelation 17:8,11). In all other cases, it refers to men, and defines the destiny that befalls them as the result of sin: Judas is the "son of perdition" (John 17:12). Peter consigns Simon Magus and his money to perdition (Acts 8:20). Some men are "vessels of wrath fitted unto destruction" (Romans 9:22), and others, their "end is perdition" (Philippians 3:19). It is the antithesis of salvation (Hebrews 10:39; Philippians 1:28). Of the two ways of life, one leads to destruction (Matthew 7:13). Whether it is utter, final and irretrievable destruction is not stated.

(2) krino, translated "damned" only in the King James Version of 2 Thessalonians 2:12 (the Revised Version (British and American) "judged") means "to judge" in the widest sense, "to form an opinion" (Luke 7:43), and forensically "to test and try" an accused person. It can only acquire the sense of "judging guilty" or "condemning" from the context.

(3) katakrino, translated "damned" only in the King James Version of Mark 16:16; Romans 14:23 ("condemned" in the Revised Version (British and American)), means properly "to give judgment against" or "to condemn" and is so translated 17 times in the King James Version and always in the Revised Version (British and American).

(4) krisis, translated "damnation" in the King James Version of Matthew 23:33; Mark 3:29; John 5:29 (the Revised Version (British and American) "judgment," but in Mark 3:29, "sin" for hamartema), means (a) judgment in general like krino, and is so used about 17 times, besides 14 times in the phrase "day of judgment"; (b) "condemnation," like katakrino, about 14 times.

(5) krima, translated in the King James Version "damnation" 7 times (Matthew 23:14 = Mark 12:40 = Luke 20:47; Romans 3:8; 13:2; 1 Corinthians 11:29; 1 Timothy 5:12), "condemnation" 6 times, "judgment" 13 times, "law" and "avenged" once each; in the Revised Version (British and American) "condemnation" 9 t (Matthew 23:14 only inserted in margin), "judgment" 17 times, and once in margin, "lawsuit" and "sentence" once each. "Judgment" may be neutral, an impartial act of the judge weighing the evidence (so in Matthew 7:2; Acts 24:25; Romans 11:33; Hebrews 6:2; 1 Peter 4:17; Revelation 20:4) and "lawsuit" (1 Corinthians 6:7); or it may be inferred from the context that judgment is unto condemnation (so in Romans 2:2,3; 5:16; Galatians 5:10; 2 Peter 2:3; Revelation 17:1; 18:20, and the Revised Version (British and American) Romans 13:2; 1 Corinthians 11:29). In places where krima and krisis are rightly translated "condemnation," and where "judgment" regarded as an accomplished fact involves a sentence of guilt, they together with katakrino define the relation of a person to the supreme authority, as that of a criminal, found and held guilty, and liable to punishment. So the Roman empire regarded Jesus Christ, and the thief on the cross (Luke 23:40; 24:20).

But generally these words refer to man as a sinner against God, judged guilty by Him, and liable to the just penalty of sin. They imply nothing further as to the nature of the penalty or the state of man undergoing it, nor as to its duration. Nor does the word "eternal" (aion, aionios, often wrongly translated "everlasting" in the King James Version) when added to them, determine the question of duration. Condemnation is an act in the moral universe, which cannot be determined under categories of time.

These terms define the action of God in relation to man's conduct, as that of the Supreme Judge, but they express only one aspect of that relation which is only fully conceived, when coordinated with the more fundamental idea of God's Fatherhood.


^ACV1Cor 3
15 If any man's work will be burned, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, but so as through fire.

[Cardinal]

Good study WW , your doing great work these days ! :thumbsup: They are very helpful .... :HeartThrob: Do you think God / Jesus judges acts by giving power to his chosen ones ?

Jesus and His angels. Because the elect are going to rule the millenia kingdom it's not impossible that the elect are the angels = messenger of the word. ^YLTRevelation 14 10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, that hath been mingled unmixed in the cup of His anger, and he shall be tormented in fire and brimstone before the holy messengers, and before the Lamb,

Yes , you makes sense , but dont you think its possible that the fire , is their fiery trails of torment they are going though to humble and save them and the brimstone is the purifying process they are experiencing to change ? for some it sure could happen me thinks :HeartThrob:.

The Bible speaks about a fiery law. A literal translation is "fire law". I had a thought about this last week. What if LoF means: Be fully subjected to or submerged in the law? LoF = law That law burn with brimstone. Brimstone is nearly equal to God. So the law is not just a law; it's (purifying) divine law. :dontknow:

:cloud9: Amen, yes he is  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:

And WW, I think that's exactly what it means. The baptism in water is a type of being baptized into His death, while the baptism in the Spirit is as being baptized into His life. Death comes thru sin, which was defined by the law. The law condemns us, the Spirit pardons us. Court adjourned.  :winkgrin:

Jesus said, speaking as the Spirit only what He heard His Father say, I (the Spirit) don't condemn you, the Word (letter) condemns you. There is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ (the Spirit) Jesus.

Add to that, a lake of fire, is literally the top of an active volcano. Lava is as His love, ie. the elements (or elemental principles of Heb. 6) melting with a fervent heat, the overflowing scourge that heals or makes whole, everything it touches. There is a direct witness with the male that plants the seed, also. My  :2c:

[WhiteWings]

[The Bible speaks about a fiery law. A literal translation is "fire law". I had a thought about this last week. What if LoF means: Be fully subjected to or submerged in the law? LoF = law That law burn with brimstone. Brimstone is nearly equal to God. So the law is not just a law; it's (purifying) divine law. :dontknow:

:cloud9: Amen, yes he is  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:

And WW, I think that's exactly what it means.

Seems to align with the stuff in this post/thread so some progress is made.

Isn't God sitting in the Holies of Holies on the Ark as His judgement seat?

The problem is that the Ark never was in the 2nd Temple. So if God sits on the Ark then the Temple was not the house of God.
And that gives all sort of other problems (?)

Damn another off-topic thread  :icon_jokercolor:

[rosered]

  Good Stuff  :thumbsup:

  the first   cleansing God sent the Flood , this water =   washing water of the Word  and literal flood  in the days of Noah

  Peter  describes it well , Jesus speaks of it  as in the days of Noah/Noe so shall the coming of the Son of Man be
  2nd  cleansing  by Fire = the presence of God ''SPIRIT''
two places    this ones the water baptism  described

ESV 1Peter 3


18For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,


19in which[c] he went and proclaimed[d] to the spirits in prison, 20because[e] they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. 

21Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,


22who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

Now the 2nd  baptism by fire    now do we take this literally ??? or is this a spiritual language  :dontknow:
I just noticed its in 1st Peter 3WATER  and in 2nd peter 3  FIRE  wow  what a catch !! :HeartThrob:lol
to  me anyways

2 Peter 3
The Day of the Lord Will Come
1This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, 2 that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles,


3knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.

WOW ITS TRUE , they dont see Him ...

4 They will say, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation."


5For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, 6and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.



7But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.


8But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.


9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you,[a] not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.



10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.[c]

11Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, 12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! 13But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Final Words
14 Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace.

15And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
  16as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. 17You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.

grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
  :HeartThrob:

[WhiteWings]

  Peter  describes it well , Jesus speaks of it  as in the days of Noah/Noe so shall the coming of the Son of Man be
  2nd  cleansing  by Fire = the presence of God "SPIRIT"

Now the 2nd  baptism by fire    now do we take this literally ??? or is this a spiritual language  :dontknow:
I just noticed its in 1st Peter 3WATER  and in 2nd peter 3  FIRE  wow  what a catch !! :HeartThrob:lol
to  me anyways

Let's take this one step further. A step many won't like :winkgrin:
Pentecost was baptism by fire. The fire was the HS.
Above we saw law=fire.
In Greek (and some English translations) the HS is called "It".
I always wondered what exactly the HS is...
But maybe: HS=Fire=Law

Then for example laws written on our heart simply means the HS inside of you.
But it conflicts with God is a consuming fire.
:dontknow:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Well here's another step many won't like, but it helps clarify a lot of scriptures. There is a difference between the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost (Read Matt. 7:34).

One comes as water, and one comes as fire. Both cleanse, but one purifies. One is symbolic of being conformed into the image of His death (baptism in water), one is symbolic of being conformed into the image of His life (baptism in fire/HG). As such, the Holy Spirit is as, THE ANOINTING FOR BURIAL.

Back to the thread where we are discussing whether or not He's in everyone, under the law which cannot be broken, you were unclean FOR SEVEN DAYS and had to go to a priest, if you came into contact with a dead body.

Well, Adam (corporate Adam) died seven years/days ago, and the Holy Spirit has been there always as the anointing for burial, as Adam awaits the Holy Ghost raising "him" up into newness of life, making him clean. Notice there was no choice given in going to a priest or not. He will NEVER leave us nor forsake us. Never, doesn't have a start or stop period, ie. before I was "saved" or after.

Before hackles are up, I am NOT saying salvation is not necessary, I'm just speaking about the principles of it He has shown me, opening my understanding of it.  :2c:

[WhiteWings]

:cloud9: Well here's another step many won't like,

I would like a more direct answer. (even in PM)
Does my HS = Law thought makes any sense?

but it helps clarify a lot of scriptures. There is a difference between the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost (Read Matt. 7:34).

I have no clue where you get that from that verse.
I always assumed Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost are 2 names for the same. Just as Pure Spirit is another name for the same. (The Christian Bible)

BTW Spirit and Ghost are the same word in Greek. KJV uses both names. 20 other translations I checked only use Spirit.

[thinktank]

Mth7:34 ?

Not there

[jabcat]

me too.  Card must have meant a different scrip (or I'm using the wrong Bibles   :laughing7:).

Isnt "Ghost" translational, middle ages (KJV)  from "Spirit"?   :2c:

[WhiteWings]

me too.  Card must have meant a different scrip (or I'm using the wrong Bibles   :laughing7:).

Prolly she reading the CAB version :winkgrin:

Isnt "Ghost" translational, middle ages (KJV)  from "Spirit"?   :2c:

KJV uses both.

0x Holy Ghost in OT
89x Holy Ghost in NT
3x Holy Spirit in OT
4x Holy Spirit in NT

But James, it's not only Ghost/Spirit. TCB uses the word Pure instead of Holy.

[jabcat]

oh yeah, i know.  i've got a little study i'm going to look at later on it...maybe it will explain where 'pure' comes from

[rosered]

  Peter  describes it well , Jesus speaks of it  as in the days of Noah/Noe so shall the coming of the Son of Man be
  2nd  cleansing  by Fire = the presence of God "SPIRIT"

Now the 2nd  baptism by fire    now do we take this literally ??? or is this a spiritual language  :dontknow:
I just noticed its in 1st Peter 3WATER  and in 2nd peter 3  FIRE  wow  what a catch !! :HeartThrob:lol
to  me anyways

Let's take this one step further. A step many won't like :winkgrin:
Pentecost was baptism by fire. The fire was the HS.
Above we saw law=fire.
In Greek (and some English translations) the HS is called "It".
I always wondered what exactly the HS is...
But maybe: HS=Fire=Law

Then for example laws written on our heart simply means the HS inside of you.
But it conflicts with God is a consuming fire.
:dontknow:

How does it conflict WW ?  :icon_flower: