It Will Cost You Everything

[Travis]

Escape the wrath to come - those whom reject Jesus Christ and die in their sins will be eternally punished. This video expresses this in a powerful way and is an example of how the focus of Biblical Christianity differs from universalism.

It Will Cost You Everything
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JQOBMi4QS8

[PaoloNuevo]

Punishment, yes... but everlasting? No

Those who could not yet be saved will go away into chastisement eonian (Matt 25: 46) ... Once again the "eonian" is an indefinite period.... Because could you correct someone as an end in itself? What is the end of correction?

Travis, please examine the Scriptures for yourself... http://www.scripture4all.org  Check the interlinear Greek, and the word Jesus uses in Matt 25: 46 is Kolasis, coming from Kolazo which is to prune to make better...

Zechariah 13:9 (New King James Version)

9 I will bring the one-third through the fire,
      Will refine them as silver is refined,
      And test them as gold is tested.
      They will call on My name,
      And I will answer them.
      I will say, 'This is My people';
      And each one will say, 'The LORD is my God.'"

Habakkuk 1:12 (New King James Version)

The Prophet's Second Question
    12 Are You not from everlasting,
      O LORD my God, my Holy One?
      We shall not die.
      O LORD, You have appointed them for judgment;
      O Rock, You have marked them for correction.
     

Lamentations 3:31 (New King James Version)

31 For the Lord will not cast off forever.

Isaiah 45:22-24 (New King James Version)

22 " Look to Me, and be saved,
      All you ends of the earth!
      For I am God, and there is no other.
       23 I have sworn by Myself;
      The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness,
      And shall not return,
      That to Me every knee shall bow,
      Every tongue shall take an oath.
       24 He shall say,

      ' Surely in the LORD I have righteousness and strength.
      To Him men shall come,
      And all shall be ashamed
      Who are incensed against Him.
     

[jabcat]

Good post Paolo, amen.  A sound, Biblically-based comment.

Travis, if you come back to even see this, the last several posts you've made appear that you're just popping in to post some unscripturally sound thread and don't come back to discuss it, consider others' views, etc.

Are you interested in any further discussion, or are your plans to continue dropping these threads in with no further "give-and-take"?   If you plan to discuss things in an interactive manner within forum guidelines, you're welcome to stay.  Otherwise, spamming, trolling, and the consequences of a resultant ban are addressed in the Admin Section under "What You May Not Do".

I will PM you as well since I don't know if you're even coming back to check these threads you're starting.  I do know the last one you started you weren't active again on the boards for quite awhile - possibly not until today when you started this one?  We'll need to do it a little different than that, brother.   :bigGrin:  (I don't know if you judge me as not being a brother, but if you're saved, I consider you one.)

Thanks, James.

P.S. How far have you truly gone away from a Biblical understanding of Christian Ultimate Reconciliation, aka, The Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ?  Unless I'm mistaken, what you just posted appears to be extreme judgmentalism of even other ET'ers who are viewed as not lining up with the authors' prescribed version of their particular views.   :dontknow:   :bsad:

[jabcat]

Nathan posted this in an earlier thread.  I read it tonight and liked how it applied to this discussion.

"As to the original question that started the thread . . .universal reconciliation of any kind is not a free pass.  It never has been.  But it's not about hell at all.  The church has inflated it into being much about hell and eternal damnation.  But the true purpose of Jesus coming here was prophecied in Isaiah and Jesus himself proclaimed that it had been fulfilled . . .by him.

Luke 4
18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,  19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

Preach the gospel to the poor (In spirit might I add, not just financially broke people)  Deliverance to the captives (religious minds) recovering sight to the blind (veil of the minds of men) and to set at liberty them that are bruised.  No mention of hell, no mention of eternal torment.

Is Jesus really nothing more than just a salesman giving his pitch to anyone who would listen?  Knowing that in the fine print should they reject his message, eternal hell was immediately following?  Or could it be that this hell thing has been totally over-inflated all along?  And if hell has been, would that not also mean that the image of the devil and the image of satan would follow suit? 

It's that final shaking Hebrews talks about.  Once light enters the room, everything that darkness supported comes crashing down.  Darkness doesn't necessarily have to mean evil, it can also mean uneducated.  Shedding a little light on something is bringing something to someone's awareness is it not?  Before they lived in darkness of what freedom is.  The light is not salvation from hell.  It's simply illuminating truth of the Nature of the Son."

[Travis]

I saw the video on Youtube and thought it was excellent. I thought it could speak to someone at this forum so I posted it here. I also posted it on my facebook account and emailed it to several people whom are close to me, and favorited it on my Youtube channel.

Good post Paolo, amen.  A sound, Biblically-based comment.

Travis, if you come back to even see this, the last several posts you've made appear that you're just popping in to post some unscripturally sound thread and don't come back to discuss it, consider others' views, etc.

Are you interested in any further discussion, or are your plans to continue dropping these threads in with no further "give-and-take"?   If you plan to discuss things in an interactive manner within forum guidelines, you're welcome to stay.  Otherwise, spamming, trolling, and the consequences of a resultant ban are addressed in the Admin Section under "What You May Not Do".

I will PM you as well since I don't know if you're even coming back to check these threads you're starting.  I do know the last one you started you weren't active again on the boards for quite awhile - possibly not until today when you started this one?  We'll need to do it a little different than that, brother.   :bigGrin:  (I don't know if you judge me as not being a brother, but if you're saved, I consider you one.)

Thanks, James.

P.S. How far have you truly gone away from a Biblical understanding of Christian Ultimate Reconciliation, aka, The Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ?  Unless I'm mistaken, what you just posted appears to be extreme judgmentalism of even other ET'ers who are viewed as not lining up with the authors' prescribed version of their particular views.   :dontknow:   :bsad:

[WhiteWings]

If I read about costs I think of payments.
Didn't Jesus payed in full?
Was His payment in some way coming short?

[jabcat]

I saw the video on Youtube and thought it was excellent. I thought it could speak to someone at this forum so I posted it here. I also posted it on my facebook account and emailed it to several people whom are close to me, and favorited it on my Youtube channel.

Good post Paolo, amen.  A sound, Biblically-based comment.

Travis, if you come back to even see this, the last several posts you've made appear that you're just popping in to post some unscripturally sound thread and don't come back to discuss it, consider others' views, etc.

Are you interested in any further discussion, or are your plans to continue dropping these threads in with no further "give-and-take"?   If you plan to discuss things in an interactive manner within forum guidelines, you're welcome to stay.  Otherwise, spamming, trolling, and the consequences of a resultant ban are addressed in the Admin Section under "What You May Not Do".

I will PM you as well since I don't know if you're even coming back to check these threads you're starting.  I do know the last one you started you weren't active again on the boards for quite awhile - possibly not until today when you started this one?  We'll need to do it a little different than that, brother.   :bigGrin:  (I don't know if you judge me as not being a brother, but if you're saved, I consider you one.)

Thanks, James.

P.S. How far have you truly gone away from a Biblical understanding of Christian Ultimate Reconciliation, aka, The Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ?  Unless I'm mistaken, what you just posted appears to be extreme judgmentalism of even other ET'ers who are viewed as not lining up with the authors' prescribed version of their particular views.   :dontknow:   :bsad:

I see.  If you're going to post new topics though, maybe hang around and discuss?  :bigGrin:

[jabcat]

If I read about costs I think of payments.
Didn't Jesus payed in full?
Was His payment in some way coming short?

:thumbsup:

That's a good question, and I obviously don't believe it did.  However, as usual, what are the details and what do they mean?

In fact, the thread from which I took Nathan's post was actually about that - i.e., since Jesus paid it all, how can there be an eternal "hell"/torment?  Also, Nathan was stating the case that even afterlife discipline of any kind for a believer doesn't line up - perhaps only correction for unbelievers, bringing them to the point of repentance/bowing and confessing Jesus as Lord.   It does say believers won't be hurt of the second death, so that's a whole big topic we've already gone around on a time or two (or three or...) 

[jabcat]

..or maybe there's correction for believers, but not punishment, as in "hurt".   :2c:

[WhiteWings]

James, I think the view of Travis is that Jesus payed enough for everyone that believes in Him.
In that case the video is not suited for this forum because I think even Travis won't deny people on this forum believe in Jesus.
But he still posted the video so I assume it's not just about believing in Jesus but also being right about many other religious things.
That further minimizes the work of Jesus.
Instead of all, He only saves the believers. But only believers of the right denomination. Because no denomination has all teh knowledge of HS it can be safely said all denominations come short of the glory of the Lord.
Close to His death Jesus forgave all that mocked and tortured Him. That included the Romans. Somehow I don't believe the Romans were part of the correct Christian doctrine.
Will Romans that are forgiven by Jesus Himself burn forever anyway?
That simply means Jesus breaks his word. At least for me eternal torture is not an expression of forgiving.
:2c:

[jabcat]

Yeah, here at work I can't see the actual video, only the text below it about others not being saved - even certain other believers, even though they trust Jesus as their Savior.  :sigh:

[WhiteWings]

Try this:
http://illbehonest.com/
http://www.godtube.com/search/?q=it+will+cost+you+everything

[shawn]

Travis, I am just curious about your views.  Is belief in Jesus enough?  Or must one also submit to scriptural interpretations of the church in order to be saved?

I have seen many believers minimize the power of the blood of Christ by placing their own man-made constraints on salvation.  They do so by condemning another believer for not seeing scripture the way they do.  IMO, this is very dangerous ground, as we will be judged by how we judge others.  If you hold others to this standard and you fall short in an area of understanding, then you yourself are in danger of the judgment you place on others.

I'm not completely onboard with UR beliefs and see things from more of an ED perspective.  With that said, I realize the weakness of my own beliefs.  And that is minimizing the sacrifice of Christ.  I am still open and I don't really know how God hands out judgment.  I consider the wonderful members of this community as brothers and sisters even if we disagree on some points of our faith.  If you are a believer I consider you a brother as well.  I ask you is your faith about unity or division?  Is your faith about learning and growing, or being right?

[jabcat]

Try this:
http://illbehonest.com/
http://www.godtube.com/search/?q=it+will+cost+you+everything

still can't see it.  thanks anyway.  i'll be able to see it from home.

you know, anyway, i was raised in the hell-fire doctrine, and stayed in it all my life until God pulled me out of it a few short years ago.  I've heard so many orthodox sermons, so many orthodox opinions of the scriptures, I honestly don't care to listen to a lot of them anymore.  I know what they teach, from Pentecostal, to Charismatic, to Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Catholic...I'm ready for more accurately translated, Spirit-revealed truths of God and the scriptures...why and how could I go back?  So I basically look for other things than much of what these fellows seem to have on the sites you linked to...again, thanks for the effort, but been there, done that, want the truer things of God.   :thumbsup:

[shawn]

Try this:
http://illbehonest.com/
http://www.godtube.com/search/?q=it+will+cost+you+everything

I was on board with that video until about 1:30.  It stated that Jesus is coming into this world to damn.  Wow!  I'm not sure I have heard anything less biblical in my life.  Jesus came to give life abundantly.  He came to save, to reconcil and to give peace.  Will he kill?  Absolutely.  He will crucify this flesh, this carnal being.  This carnality that still lives in me makes my skin crawl.  I want it gone...dead...destroyed...perished.  The only thing I want left of Shawn, is a pure reflection of Jesus Christ.  Lord let your will be done.

[shawn]

Try this:
http://illbehonest.com/
http://www.godtube.com/search/?q=it+will+cost+you+everything

still can't see it.  thanks anyway.  i'll be able to see it from home.

You are not missing anything.  Basically Jesus came into this world to damn people to hell, you had better get right message.

[jabcat]

Try this:
http://illbehonest.com/
http://www.godtube.com/search/?q=it+will+cost+you+everything

I was on board with that video until about 1:30.  It stated that Jesus is coming into this world to damn.  Wow!  I'm not sure I have heard anything less biblical in my life.  Jesus came to give life abundantly.  He came to save, to reconcil and to give peace.  Will he kill?  Absolutely.  He will crucify this flesh, this carnal being.  This carnality that still lives in me makes my skin crawl.  I want it gone...dead...destroyed...perished.  The only thing I want left of Shawn, is a pure reflection of Jesus Christ.  Lord let your will be done.

Amen!  So be it, Lord Jesus come quickly! 

[jabcat]

Try this:
http://illbehonest.com/
http://www.godtube.com/search/?q=it+will+cost+you+everything

still can't see it.  thanks anyway.  i'll be able to see it from home.

You are not missing anything.  Basically Jesus came into this world to damn people to hell, you had better get right message.

Made following edit/addition to this post while you were typing this.   :thumbsup:

"you know, anyway, i was raised in the hell-fire doctrine, and stayed in it all my life until God pulled me out of it a few short years ago.  I've heard so many orthodox sermons, so many orthodox opinions of the scriptures, I honestly don't care to listen to a lot of them anymore.  I know what they teach, from Pentecostal, to Charismatic, to Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Church of Christ, Church of God, Catholic...I've been a member of the denomination, was a pastor's son.  They're right about some things, and they're my brothers.  Again, thanks for the effort, but been there, done that, 'God give me true things of You'." (edited further)

[WhiteWings]

Try this:
http://illbehonest.com/
http://www.godtube.com/search/?q=it+will+cost+you+everything

I was on board with that video until about 1:30.  It stated that Jesus is coming into this world to damn.  Wow!  I'm not sure I have heard anything less biblical in my life.  Jesus came to give life abundantly.  He came to save, to reconcil and to give peace.  Will he kill?  Absolutely.  He will crucify this flesh, this carnal being.  This carnality that still lives in me makes my skin crawl.  I want it gone...dead...destroyed...perished.  The only thing I want left of Shawn, is a pure reflection of Jesus Christ.  Lord let your will be done.

That must be an alternative rendering of:
^KJVJohn 12
47 And if  any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Well said Shawn..... :thumbsup:

[WhiteWings]

Try this:
http://illbehonest.com/
http://www.godtube.com/search/?q=it+will+cost+you+everything

still can't see it.  thanks anyway.  i'll be able to see it from home.

you know, anyway, i was raised in the hell-fire doctrine, and stayed in it all my life until God pulled me out of it a few short years ago.  I've heard so many orthodox sermons, so many orthodox opinions of the scriptures, I honestly don't care to listen to a lot of them anymore.  I know what they teach, from Pentecostal, to Charismatic, to Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Catholic...I'm ready for more accurately translated, Spirit-revealed truths of God and the scriptures...why and how could I go back?  So I basically look for other things than much of what these fellows seem to have on the sites you linked to...again, thanks for the effort, but been there, done that, want the truer things of God.   :thumbsup:

I understand. But at the same time you are an admin on a forum that has the primary goal of leading people into the right direction.
And you can do that by
(http://www.giftsforhimorher.com/i/34513.jpg)
But you can take an educated guess of course  :laughing7:

[thinktank]

In Noahs day God flooded the earth and was sorry he did this strange act, so he made a rainbow covenant with Abraham.


God also sent his anger against sodom, but one man pleaded to save the city. He did not save the city but he did save a few souls.

So if God does send people to some kind of afterlife hell lake of fire, there will not be one righteous man such as Noah in heaven,

no no

There will be millions and mllions of glorifed saints. I don't know about you but if I am in heaven and hear that God is sending people to burn in hell forever, then I will plead for Gods mercy. Throughout the enitre bible without exception God has shown mercy to people, for he is kind and mercyfull to the wicked.

The whole creation waiteth for the manifestations of the sons of God, when we are mature enough we will plead as one body for Gods mercy to endure forever, just like all the prophets and saints have done throughout history and God almighty the creator of heaven and earth as absurd as it might sound, listens to and hears the petitions of his saints and changes the course of a nation through their supplications. So I believe the key to univesal salvation is for humanity to love God as he loved us and for us to love one another, as we do this in maturity God will then have a multitude of saints that is like his only begotten Son, grown up into his image.

When one man pleads it can change a nation...imagine what millions of perfect righteous saints can do, even save the whole world (supplications, witnessing) with Christ as our champion (Perfect sacrifice) and head of the corner stone(lord our God).

[PaoloNuevo]

God didn't just make a rainbow...

He had Christ preach to those spirits in disobedience. (Peter)

:winkgrin:

[Travis]

If I read about costs I think of payments.
Didn't Jesus payed in full?
Was His payment in some way coming short?

Jesus Christ taught about counting the cost, it is a Biblical teaching:

Luke 14:25  ¶And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,
26  If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
27  And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
28  For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
29  Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
30  Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
31  Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
32  Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
33  So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
34  Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?
35  It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

[Travis]

In that case the video is not suited for this forum

The video is suitable for everyplace, as it is an appeal for unbelievers to meet Jesus Christ's terms of peace and it is also an exhortation for believers to examine themselves.