Does anyone know of some Universalist mystics, or visionaries

[micah7:9]

ANGEL O.T. H4397  mal'âk= a messenger.

ANGEL N.T. G32  aggelos=  a messenger;

I suggest that by not translating the word angel, as a messenger, that there has been many an imagination stirred.
Gabriel = O.T. and N.T. H1403... man of God  (Dan. 9:21 Luke 1:19)
Michael =O.T. and N.T  H4317... who is like God (Dan. 12:1  Jude 1:9)
Also, this expression "fallen angels" I have not yet found it in the Bible.
Do I believe in the celesital? Yes.
This is just my  :2c:  as usual

[WhiteWings]

Also, this expression "fallen angels" I have not yet found it in the Bible.

I think it orginates from:
^KJVRev 12:7-9 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Etymology
This subject also relates to the etymology and meaning of the phrase sons of God.
"Nephilim" (נְפִילִים) probably derives from the Hebrew root npl (נָפַל), "to fall" which also includes "to cause to fall" and "to kill, to ruin". The Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon gives the meaning as "giants"[1] Robert Baker Girdlestone[2] argued the word comes from the Hiphil causative stem. Adam Clarke took it as passive, "fallen", "apostates". Ronald Hendel states that it is a passive form "ones who have fallen", equivalent grammatically to paqid "one who is appointed" (i.e. overseer), asir, "one who is bound", (i.e. prisoner) etc.[3][4]
Full article

[Molly]

Hebrew "angel"


H4397
מלאך
mal'âk
mal-awk'
From an unused root meaning to despatch as a deputy; a messenger; specifically of God, that is, an angel (also a prophet, priest or teacher): - ambassador, angel, king, messenger.





11And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense.


Luke 1:19
And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.


"Gabriel"

H1403
גּבריאל
gabrıy'êl
gab-ree-ale'
From H1397 and H410; man of God Gabriel, an archangel: - Gabriel.



22And when he came out, he could not speak unto them: and they perceived that he had seen a vision in the temple: for he beckoned unto them, and remained speechless.
--Luke 1

[micah7:9]

Gen 15:12  And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram;
H5307 to fall
Gen 6:4  There were giants H5303  a feller, that is, a bully or tyrant: - giant.

If the idea of fallen angels came from Rev.12 how is where ever I hear this spoke of is in Gen.6 several books before Rev.
Again, I suggest that by not translating the word angel, as a messenger, that there has been many an imagination stirred.
From an unused root meaning to despatch as a deputy; a messenger; specifically of God, that is, an angel (also a prophet, priest or teacher): - ambassador, angel, king, messenger.
May I ask just what a prophet, priest, or teacher is if not an messenger?
"Gabriel" H1403
From H1397 and H410; man of God Gabriel, an archangel: - Gabriel. I dont believe that is true; it is my understanding from the Bible there is only ONE archangel
1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel
Jud 1:9  But Michael the archangel
Michael H4317 Who is like God





The Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon gives the meaning as "giants" I have that lexicon.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I think there are supposed to be 4 archangels.....Micheal, Gabriel and two others I can't remember right now. I may have pulled this from Jasher or Enoch, though. It's been a long time since I looked into it.  :dontknow:

[thinktank]

:cloud9: I think there are supposed to be 4 archangels.....Micheal, Gabriel and two others I can't remember right now. I have pulled this from Jasher or Enoch, though. It's been a long time since I looked into it.  :dontknow:

I think lucifer was considred an archangel before he fell, im not sure though, bible says anointed cherun that covereth and morning star, I don't know why they called him an archangel, though.

[Nathan]

He's not.  That's another misinterpretation.  Only two times in all of Scripture is "archangel" used.

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Jude 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

[thinktank]

He's not.  That's another misinterpretation.  Only two times in all of Scripture is "archangel" used.

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Jude 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Thank you, but if only Michael is mentioned, so Gabriel is not an archangel?

[micah7:9]

He's not.  That's another misinterpretation.  Only two times in all of Scripture is "archangel" used.

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Jude 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Thank you. At least thats all in the 66 books. Dont know about Enoch and Jasher although I have looked into them.
Thats correct, Gabriel is not an archangel.

[micah7:9]

They call me...."Thats That."  Glory and a double Amen. :thumbsup:

[peacemaker]

The Hebrew and Greek, both indicate that this word Angel denotes a "Messenger" who is sent by the Spirit for a specific purpose. There are numerous descriptions given by the imaginations of men as to what an Angel is, although the Scriptures do not say anything else. We only know that many of these so called Messengers/Angels have forsaken their first estate (love, power, and good judgment) for that of Medieval Angelology.

"An immortal Spirit is not subjected to sin and death; an imperishable truth."

peacemaker

[Molly]

This is from wikipedia--


Gabri-el, "God is my strong man/hero"[1]) is an archangel who serves as a messenger from God. He first appears in the Old Testament Book of Daniel, delivering explanations of Daniel's visions. Based on two passages in the Gospel of Luke, Gabriel foretold the births of both John the Baptist and Jesus. Christians of the catholic traditions refer to him as Saint Gabriel the Archangel.

Old Testament
In the book of Daniel, chapters 8:15-26 and 9:20-27, a being resembling a man and identified as Gabriel appears to the prophet Daniel to give him "skill and understanding" regarding his visions. In chapters 10:5-12:13, an unidentified being "dressed in linen" with the appearance of a man speaks with Daniel regarding future events. He tells Daniel that he had been sent to him but had been withstood by the "prince of the kingdom of Persia" for 21 days and that Michael (who is called a "chief prince") had to intervene in order for him to reach Daniel. This messenger is not specifically named but is interpreted contextually by some Christians to be Gabriel once again.

New Testament
First, concerning John the Baptist, an angel appeared to his parents, as narrated in Luke 1:10–20 (MKJV):

"And all the multitude of the people were praying outside at the time of incense. (11) And an angel of the Lord appeared to him as he was standing on the right of the altar of incense. (12) And seeing this, Zacharias was troubled, and fear fell on him.

(13) But the angel said to him, Do not fear, Zacharias. For your prayer is heard, and your wife Elizabeth shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name John. (14) And you shall have joy and gladness, and many shall rejoice at his birth. (15) For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall neither drink wine nor strong drink. And he shall be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb. (16) And he shall turn many of the sons of Israel to the Lord their God. (17) And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

(18) And Zacharias said to the angel, By what shall I know this? For I am old, and my wife is advanced in her days.

(19) And answering, the angel said to him, I am Gabriel, who stands before God. And I am sent to speak to you and to show you these glad tidings. (20) And behold, you shall be silent and not able to speak until the day that these things shall be performed, because you did not believe my words which shall be fulfilled in their time.[end]

Shortly afterwards, announcing the forthcoming birth of Jesus, Gabriel is said to appear again, this time to Elizabeth's close relative Mary; see Luke 1:26–37 (MKJV)

(26) And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, (27) to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin's name was Mary. (28) And the angel came in to her and said, Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women.

(29) And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and considered what kind of greeting this might be. (30) And the angel said to her, Do not fear, Mary, for you have found favor with God. (31) And behold! You shall conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. (32) He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Highest. And the Lord God shall give him the throne of his father David. (33) And he shall reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

(34) Then Mary said to the angel, How shall this be, since I know not man?

(35) And the angel answered and said to her, The Holy Spirit shall come on you, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow you. Therefore also that Holy One which will be born of you shall be called Son of God. (36) And behold, your cousin Elizabeth also conceived a son in her old age. And this is the sixth month with her who was called barren. (37) For with God nothing shall be impossible.[end]

Gabriel only appears in these two passages in Luke and not in the other three Gospels.

According to the non-canonical Enoch 9:1–2, Gabriel, along with Michael, Raphael, Uriel and Suriel hear the cries of humanity under the strain of the Nephilim. It was their beseeching of "the Ancient of Days" (Yahweh), that prompted God to call Enoch to prophethood.

After Enoch informed the Watchers of their fall from grace, Yahweh sent the archangels to earth to complete various tasks. In Enoch 10:13, Gabriel was to "Go to the biters, to the reprobates, to the children of fornication, the offspring of the Watchers, from among men; bring them forth and excite them against one another. Let them perish under mutual slaughter; for length of days shall not be theirs." And so, Gabriel instigated wars among the Giants (the children of the Watchers).

Enoch 20:7 says that Gabriel presides over "Ikisat" (the fiery serpents) or Seraphim, Cherubim, and paradise, while Enoch 40:9 states that Gabriel presides over "all that is powerful."

--wikipedia

[micah7:9]

The Hebrew and Greek, both indicate that this word Angel denotes a "Messenger" who is sent by the Spirit for a specific purpose. There are numerous descriptions given by the imaginations of men as to what an Angel is, although the Scriptures do not say anything else. We only know that many of these so called Messengers/Angels have forsaken their first estate (love, power, and good judgment) for that of Medieval Angelology.

"An immortal Spirit is not subjected to sin and death; an imperishable truth."

peacemaker

"An immortal Spirit is not subjected to sin and death; an imperishable truth." who said that?

"numerous descriptions given by the imaginations of men as to what an Angel is, although the Scriptures do not say anything else"!!!!!!
Amen
for that of Medieval Angelology What is that? and "so called Messengers/Angels?"

Angels are and were mesengers, prophets, teachers, priests, men; even perhaps us.

[Molly]

Another mysterious passage--


Daniel 4:17
This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.


"the watchers"

H5894
עיר
‛ıyr
eer
(Chaldee); from a root corresponding to H5782; a watcher, that is, an angel (as guardian): - watcher.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I remember reading somewhere one time about there being 7 archangels.....perhaps in old Jewish writings??? Not sure. In a discussion about Gabriel one day, a friend remarked, that Gabriel was the "revelation angel" ie. he comes to reveal things. Thought that was a good point......Blessings....

[peacemaker]

An immortal Spirit is not subjected to sin and death; an imperishable truth.

Who said that?

The Spirit returns to the who sent it, the Father.

Medieval Angelology, what is that?

A fallen Angel called Lucifer is a myth, it's one of those "dungeon's and dragon" stories.

What are Messengers/Angels?

He who walks in the Spirit of the day, eats from the tree of life.

"The tree of knowledge resides within the-ologies of men, moving back and forth between two poles; life and death."

True revelation comes from having the mind of Christ; the Spirit of Truth.

peacemaker

[micah7:9]

Another mysterious passage--


Daniel 4:17
This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.


"the watchers"

H5894
עיר
‛ıyr
eer
(Chaldee); from a root corresponding to H5782; a watcher, that is, an angel (as guardian): - watcher.

Dan 4:17  by the decree of the sifters is the sentence, and by the saying of the holy ones the requirement, to the intent that the living may know that the Most High is ruler in the kingdom of men, and to whom He willeth He giveth it, and the lowest of men He doth raise up over it.

[micah7:9]

An immortal Spirit is not subjected to sin and death; an imperishable truth.

Who said that?

The Spirit returns to the who sent it, the Father.

Medieval Angelology, what is that?

A fallen Angel called Lucifer is a myth, it's one of those "dungeon's and dragon" stories.

What are Messengers/Angels?

He who walks in the Spirit of the day, eats from the tree of life.

"The tree of knowledge resides within the-ologies of men, moving back and forth between two poles; life and death."

True revelation comes from having the mind of Christ; the Spirit of Truth.

peacemaker

Thank you, I like that. :thumbsup:

[micah7:9]

I do not know how YLT Came up with sifters. I can understand how it can be used in that way tho.
Dan 4:17  by the decree of the sifters is the sentence, and by the saying of the holy ones the requirement, to the intent that the living may know that the Most High is ruler in the kingdom of men, and to whom He willeth He giveth it, and the lowest of men He doth raise up over it.

Brown and Driver have it as "messenger or envoy,"  and it has been used it some places as "ambassador"  I will stay away from the guardian part, I cant find the word in the bible.

[thinktank]

An immortal Spirit is not subjected to sin and death; an imperishable truth.

Who said that?

The Spirit returns to the who sent it, the Father.

Medieval Angelology, what is that?

A fallen Angel called Lucifer is a myth, it's one of those "dungeon's and dragon" stories.

What are Messengers/Angels?

He who walks in the Spirit of the day, eats from the tree of life.

"The tree of knowledge resides within the-ologies of men, moving back and forth between two poles; life and death."

True revelation comes from having the mind of Christ; the Spirit of Truth.

peacemaker

Thank you, I like that. :thumbsup:

well "Thats That." :msealed:

[micah7:9]

well "Thats That."   :msealed:   You betcha  :msealed: