Does anyone know of some Universalist mystics, or visionaries

[Universalist Catholic]

Regarding some supernatural experiences and miracles by Christian Universalists who had met with Jesus, or had some type of visions and/or supernatural experiences.  I had read about several, but cant really remember what any of their names.  One I remember was from the civil war, who was taken to hell, and an angel told him that they would be released.  Does anyone have any links about Universalist visionaries?

[IceMan84]

This probably isn't exactly what you are looking for, but it is a pretty interesting article regarding near death experiences and universalism...

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen021.html

[sven]

I know of Sandhu Sundar Singh and the Germans Jakob Lorber and Johannes Greber

but I warn you, I consider them as occultists and advice you not consider their witness as having the least authority nor to deal too much with them they are as little an authority as Paul Wiese or Mary K. Baxter or any other self-claimed prophet, this is my opinion.

[Aleax]

I've been reading about Singh lately. I don't know if he was an occultist or not. However it seems he was not a Universalist. He did believe most people will be saved but not everyone. His testimony about Hell is as follows:

'I was also told that the love of God operates even in Hell. God does not shine in His full light, because those there could not bear it, but He gradually shows them more and more light and by and by brings them on and moves their conscience towards something better, although they think that the desire is entirely their own. Thus God works on their minds from within, something in the same way, though in the opposite direction, as that in which Satan suggests temptation to us here. Thus, what with God's work within and the Light without, almost all those in Hell will ultimately be brought to Christ's feet. It will perhaps take millions of ages, but when it is attained they will be full of joy and thankfulness towards God: though they will still be less happy than those who have accepted Christ on earth. Thus Hell also is a training school, a place of preparation for Home. Those in Hell know that it is not their home because they suffer there. Men were not created for Hell and therefore do not enjoy it and, when there, desire to escape to Heaven. They do so, but they find Heaven even more uncongenial than Hell, so they return. But this convinces them that there is something wrong in their lives, and thus they are gradually led to repentance. At least, that is the case with the majority, but there are some few personalities, Satan for instance, in regard to whom I was told, 'Don't ask about them.. And so I didn't like to ask, but I hoped that for them also there was some hope.

'They also told me that the saints help in the work of saving souls in Hell, because there can be no idleness in Heaven. Those in Hell will ultimately be brought to Heaven, like the prodigal son, but with regard to the ultimate fate of a certain number you must not ask.' The Sadhu is inclined to think that perhaps these few will be annihilated.

Once I said 'So many people will be lost because they have not heard of Christ.' They said, 'The contrary will be the case; very few will be lost.' There is a kind of heavenly joke - no joke is not a good word for it. Very few will be lost but many will be saved. It is so but don't tell,' they said, as it were in jest, 'because it will make men careless, and we want them to enjoy the First Heaven - that is, the Heaven on earth - as well.' 'If there were no hope for all the non-Christians in the world and all the Christians who die in sin, God would stop creating men. We must do our part here on earth to save sinners, but if they refuse we need not be without hope for them.'

http://www.growthingod.org.uk/UNIREC.HTM

[Dallas]

My question is, what reason or purpose would there need to be these people and what interest do you have in them?

[Jerm]

Carlton Pearson is only one I've heard of.  Check out his book, The Gospel of Inclusion, good stuff.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I've read a couple of excerpts of writings by 17th century Christian "mystic", Jane Leade. Google her.....blessings....

PS. If you google "17th century mystic", it brings up a list of "mystics" listed by century, on wikipedia.

[Dallas]

Carlton Pearson is only one I've heard of.  Check out his book, The Gospel of Inclusion, good stuff.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Very interesting story!!

[Johann]

In my studies, I've come across several clearly universalist mystics: David Joris, Clement Ziegler, and Michael Hahn. Also mystically inclined and possibly universalist were Hans Denck, Hans Bunderlin, Christian Entfelder, Jacob Kautz, Hans Hut, Sebastian Franck, and Valentin Wiegel. The evidence for a belief in unequivocal universalism is stronger for some than for others. Sebastien Franck, Hans Denck, and Valentin Wiegel might have had positions closer to that of Sandhu Sundar Singh, mentioned above. More study is needed on them all...   

[Aleax]

My question is, what reason or purpose would there need to be these people and what interest do you have in them?

I'm not the OP but I'll answer for myself (and bump up the same old thread for the second time, sorry) :D

The thing is, I have been told to base my faith on the Bible but in my opinion no-one can really understand that book very well. So many Christians are in disagreement with each other on what's "biblical".

If you're an UR believer then, to you, UR is biblical. If you believe in an endless hell then you regard ET as biblical. Annihilationists find support for their beliefs in the Bible, too.

In my country there's a perpetual debate going on between Lutherans and Pentecostals on the baptism question. Many Lutherans believe child baptism by sprinkling is biblical and you shouldn't get baptised second time whereas many Pentecostals insist child baptism "doesn't count" and that you should first become Born Again and then get baptised by immersion. Both camps have Scripture to back up their claims, have the Holy Spirit and know Jesus in their heart.

Rapture believers say their belief is Biblical, their opponents state rapture is unbiblical.

etc. etc. and the debates go on forever and ever (or unto the ages of ages if you will)  :laughing7:

So, with so much confusion existing I've started to wonder can't there be a more direct way to communicate with God than just "studying the Word"? Silent seeking, deep prayer, meditation, contemplation?

That's why I have interest in mysticism/mystics.

[Beloved Servant]

www.kingdombiblestudies.org/lordprayer/LP1.htm

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Yes, there is a more direct way to communicate with God. Ask for and then cultivate the gifts of the Spirit, that operate from the baptism in His Spirit  (which is the Holy Ghost) and ask for the hearing ear, because God gives the hearing ear. Blessings...

[giftsimple]

Liars in the Churches


http://kingdomlife.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1158

Good Read

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Hi.....didn't know the board was still going.....how are you doing?  :thumbsup:

[thinktank]

The problem with the word mystic is that typically non christians use that word. Dreamers and visions through the holy spirit are usually called prophets. The only problem with being a prophet is that people are quick to label you a false prophet, and prophets are no longer as respected as they use to be.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Pagans use the word, but I consider a true mystic one who knows mysteries. Paul was a mystic in that sense of the word, because he talked about knowing all mysteries. The parables are hiding mysteries of the kingdom. It's all in the motive of the heart, as always. Blessings...

[coldwar]

I know of Sandhu Sundar Singh and the Germans Jakob Lorber and Johannes Greber

but I warn you, I consider them as occultists and advice you not consider their witness as having the least authority nor to deal too much with them they are as little an authority as Paul Wiese or Mary K. Baxter or any other self-claimed prophet, this is my opinion.

I've been rather interested in Singh lately, but discovered an enigma about him. It seems that he is well regarded among Christians of every stripe. His conversion was truly dramatic, much like that of St. Paul, he was well known for his Christ-likeness, he traveled much of the world preaching a sound Gospel, and always well admired by Orthodox and Evangelicals alike. He remained an Anglican after his conversion until his mysterious disappearance in 1929. To me, he was a "semi-universalist" if you can believe that's a possibility, teaching that most would eventually get to God's Kingdom, perhaps after ages of torment, but that Satan and the fallen angels, and their most hard-core human followers would remain in hell forever.

The enigma about him concerns his vision for the nation of Romania. The whole vision is described in rather poor English in a document about 10 pages long, declaring that Bucharest, Romania would soon become "the New Jerusalem", a spiritual center for all religions, and of a "new world Christian synod", replacing Rome, in particular. In the whole thing, the name of Jesus is only mentioned once- that being his description of himself as a convert of Jesus Christ. He starts the account by saying the vision was given to him by the "holy virgin". I find, when comparing this to accounts of many of his other visions, and to his many famous quotes about Christian discipleship to be very uncharacteristic, that Jesus would not be mentioned at all, and that the vision is attributed to the "holy virgin" instead.

In most accounts I've read about Sundar Singh, he is highly esteemed among Christians in general. But when you read the supposed account of his vision for Romania, it is very likely he could be viewed as an occultist. I have to wonder- is the Romania account actually a fraud?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Sounds like if he was a true follower, perhaps the Catholic church decided to muddy the waters by having him have "holy virgin" vision? I don't think they were above falsifying documents to maintain their stranglehold on the populace. My  :2c: Blessings....

[Jael]

Mystics are those that would seek to actively commune with God, which is not quite the same as the role of a prophet. My  :2c: is that, like us, they're human and tend to interpret things through their experiences and world view. We all, as Paul said, see through the glass darkly. Looking back, I realise God was showing me His universal love for years, but I kept missing it because I kept seeing everything with hell tacked on the end. I reckon people who have visions etc are just as apt to interpret it according to their experiences. I know I have!

I love the writings of Julian of Norwich, the first English woman to write a book. She was definately a universalist but at the same time had the conflict of the Roman church dogma of the time. Some quotes:

"Because of the great, infinite love which God has for all humankind, he makes no distinction in love between the blessed soul of Christ and the lowliest of the souls that are to be saved . . . . We should highly rejoice that God dwells in our soul and still more highly should we rejoice that our soul dwells in God. Our soul is made to be God's dwelling place, and the dwelling place of our soul is God who was never made."

"You will not be overcome.God did not say you will not be troubled, You will not be belaboured, You will not be disquieted; But God said, You will not be overcome.All shall be well and all shall be well and all manner of things shall be well."

[thinktank]

Mystics are those that would seek to actively commune with God, which is not quite the same as the role of a prophet. My  :2c: is that, like us, they're human and tend to interpret things through their experiences and world view. We all, as Paul said, see through the glass darkly. Looking back, I realise God was showing me His universal love for years, but I kept missing it because I kept seeing everything with hell tacked on the end. I reckon people who have visions etc are just as apt to interpret it according to their experiences. I know I have!

I love the writings of Julian of Norwich, the first English woman to write a book. She was definately a universalist but at the same time had the conflict of the Roman church dogma of the time. Some quotes:

"Because of the great, infinite love which God has for all humankind, he makes no distinction in love between the blessed soul of Christ and the lowliest of the souls that are to be saved . . . . We should highly rejoice that God dwells in our soul and still more highly should we rejoice that our soul dwells in God. Our soul is made to be God's dwelling place, and the dwelling place of our soul is God who was never made."

"You will not be overcome.God did not say you will not be troubled, You will not be belaboured, You will not be disquieted; But God said, You will not be overcome.All shall be well and all shall be well and all manner of things shall be well."

So your saying a mystic are people who have dreams but a prophet is someone who has the power from up on high from the almighty to do great exploits. So in some sense were all mystics, most of us pray to God I think, but I don't think all christians dream that much, some people are more sensitive to spiritual things than others. I don't think the bible would define us as mystics though, I have not find a passage, let me know if you have found something. I have found references to that, "the spirit groaneth within us and crieth abba father", and also calling us "the privelage to be called the sons of God".

[micah7:9]

Gal 1:6  I wonder that ye are so quickly removed from Him who did call you in the grace of Christ to another good news;
Gal 1:7  that is not another, except there be certain who are troubling you, and wishing to pervert the good news of the Christ;
Gal 1:8  but even if we or a messenger out of heaven may proclaim good news to you different from what we did proclaim to you--anathema let him be!
Gal 1:9  as we have said before, and now say again, If any one to you may proclaim good news different from what ye did receive--anathema let him be!

[Aleax]

Yeah, I know those verses.

But which Gospel IS the original, biblical good news? UR or ET?

btw, what does this mean?

25 and its gates shall not at all be shut by day, for night shall not be there;

[Rev 21:25]

Heaven's gates shall be always open. For who? For saved people who want to leave for hell?  :laughing7:

[jabcat]

25 and its gates shall not at all be shut by day, for night shall not be there;

[Rev 21:25]

Heaven's gates shall be always open. For who? For saved people who want to leave for hell?  :laughing7:

Now that's funny.   :laugh2:

[thinktank]

Yeah, I know those verses.

But which Gospel IS the original, biblical good news? UR or ET?

btw, what does this mean?

25 and its gates shall not at all be shut by day, for night shall not be there;

[Rev 21:25]

Heaven's gates shall be always open. For who? For saved people who want to leave for hell?  :laughing7:

It's open so that saints can explore earth if they wish, so a saint can still go fishing and doesn't have to live in the city. I hope so anyway, I don't like cities, I prefer the quiet life.

[micah7:9]

Yeah, I know those verses.

But which Gospel IS the original, biblical good news? UR or ET?

btw, what does this mean?

25 and its gates shall not at all be shut by day, for night shall not be there;

[Rev 21:25]

Heaven's gates shall be always open. For who? For saved people who want to leave for hell?  :laughing7:

Please first tell me the GOOD NEWS in ET :sigh: