The lake of fire or Le lac de feu

[Cardinal]

:cloud9: :cloud9: So we should swallow the full preterist view instead?

There were two thieves on either side of THE cross. One wanted Him to come down (it is finished BEFORE the death to self) if He be the son of God, and the other wanted Him to remember Him WHEN He came into His kingdom (He was ALREADY King).

One is too soon (preterists), the other too late (let me die to inherit), but the Truth dwells directly in the middle, the NOW is the day of your salvation.

He is in the NOW, ie. whatever revelation He brings to you to conform you into the image of the Son in the NOW, that is the twinkling of an eye (speaks of understanding by illumination of the Spirit/light) by which we are changed from glory terrestrial (natural fleshly understanding) to glory celestial (spiritual understanding from the mind of Christ).

And since the sons of God are Christ in His many-membered body, and since God's Word cannot lie, He WILL have a body He can lay His head (FULL authority) on. Blessings....

Then there will never be a manifestation of the sons of God, because it will always be NOW; unless you are saying that the Sons ARE being manifest NOW.

:cloud9: I don't think you understood what I said previously about Him appearing in the NOW. NOW is the twinking of an eye, the revelation from the Spirit that is outside the framework of time. So because it is not bound by time, it is always NOW in the Spirit. Blessings....

[micah7:9]

"Even in my PHYSICAL body."


Now, you get it!

Right, even in this physical body I am the complete fulfillment of Christ, in all ways. My death or personal growth has absolutley no bearing on that.

I am complete, and perfected, lacking nothing, been blessed with all spiritual blessing in the heavens.

This body stops nothing, why? Because Jesus' fulfillment was both physical and spiritual...NOT just spiritual.

Eph 4:12  unto the perfecting of the saints, for a work of ministration, for a building up of the body of the Christ,

Eph 4:13  till we may all come to the unity of the faith and of the recognition of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to a measure of stature of the fulness of the Christ,

This is where the Lord has me. Peace and Love Through Jesus

[Zeek]

:cloud9: :cloud9: So we should swallow the full preterist view instead?

There were two thieves on either side of THE cross. One wanted Him to come down (it is finished BEFORE the death to self) if He be the son of God, and the other wanted Him to remember Him WHEN He came into His kingdom (He was ALREADY King).

One is too soon (preterists), the other too late (let me die to inherit), but the Truth dwells directly in the middle, the NOW is the day of your salvation.

He is in the NOW, ie. whatever revelation He brings to you to conform you into the image of the Son in the NOW, that is the twinkling of an eye (speaks of understanding by illumination of the Spirit/light) by which we are changed from glory terrestrial (natural fleshly understanding) to glory celestial (spiritual understanding from the mind of Christ).

And since the sons of God are Christ in His many-membered body, and since God's Word cannot lie, He WILL have a body He can lay His head (FULL authority) on. Blessings....

Then there will never be a manifestation of the sons of God, because it will always be NOW; unless you are saying that the Sons ARE being manifest NOW.

:cloud9: I don't think you understood what I said previously about Him appearing in the NOW. NOW is the twinking of an eye, the revelation from the Spirit that is outside the framework of time. So because it is not bound by time, it is always NOW in the Spirit. Blessings....

but the NOW as written in the first century, was with "ishmaels" still present, and "isaacs" "few" coming forth (the era of pentacost).  So tomorrow's NOW will still be the same, as so will a billion years from  "NOW".  There will never be a moving as you say, on to the tabernacles or manifestation of sons; because there will never be a fulfillment of the "whole body".  It will always be an ongoing process, a few NOW, and many not NOW, just as the NOW was then.  

yeah, maybe outside of time it IS fulfilled, but it will never happen in time.  And Paul and gang used NOW to refer to that time, not "in the spiritual realm" imo. 

probably not making any sense to anyone but me.  

 

I understood you to say, that preterist view is wrong, because NOW is still happening.  Well, whenever you say the NOW is not happening anymore (sons manifest, or tabernacles fulfilled); someone will come in and say your a preterist.  

[micah7:9]

The "lake of fire," I believe one could call it God Fire, staying in step with Heb. 12:29
But the lake of fire is a place of purification, Rev.20:10 "lake of fire and brimstone"
Rev.10:14"lake of the fire--this is the second death;"  I might ask when is the first death?  And get varied answers. I like to believe that I am in the lake of fire and glad to be there, now and not later. Lake= G3041 a pond, from G3040 a harbor. Fire= G4442 is fire (note the Greek word is "pur" from which Briwe get our word "pure") Brimstone=G2303 is sulphur( a purifier;)from Gk word "theion" from G2304 Gk. word "theios" godlike, divinity, from G2316 Gk word "theos" the supreme Divinity. The way I understand all that is that that lake is a... harbor where God's Fire will refine (Mal.3:3) purge and purify (burn up wood, hay and stubble) in His vessels of honor. So I am happy and full of joy to be in the lake of fire now, To day... this is the second death; others will be  drawn or dragged later.
Peace and Love Through Jesus

[Molly]

Eph 4:13 till we may all come to the unity of the faith and of the recognition of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to a measure of stature of the fulness of the Christ,


This is talking about one perfect man [comprised of many men]--the Christ.  I never saw it that way before. :mshock:



[the] "unity"

G1775
ἑνότης
henotēs
hen-ot'-ace
From G1520; oneness, that is, (figuratively) unanimity: - unity.



16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.


--Eph 4

[Tony N]

WE ARE!:
The abyss that contains no darkness!

WE ARE!:
The Lake of Fire!

You might be the lake of fire but not me. I'm not death, I'm life. And I'm in the book of life, not death.

[Tony N]

Hi Dallas.  I didn't call your name or single you out.  However, we really are straying from "this is how I understand it" and getting into "you do this, you do that"...see what I mean?  there's a difference.  One way we're discussing, the other we're assigning motives, making judgments about each other's intent, etc....

We are also straying from the main topic which I started this whole thread out with.

Can we all look again at the first post of this thread and get back on topic?

[Tony N]

The "lake of fire," I believe one could call it God Fire, staying in step with Heb. 12:29
But the lake of fire is a place of purification, Rev.20:10 "lake of fire and brimstone"
Rev.10:14"lake of the fire--this is the second death;"  I might ask when is the first death?  And get varied answers. I like to believe that I am in the lake of fire and glad to be there, now and not later. Lake= G3041 a pond, from G3040 a harbor. Fire= G4442 is fire (note the Greek word is "pur" from which Briwe get our word "pure") Brimstone=G2303 is sulphur( a purifier;)from Gk word "theion" from G2304 Gk. word "theios" godlike, divinity, from G2316 Gk word "theos" the supreme Divinity. The way I understand all that is that that lake is a... harbor where God's Fire will refine (Mal.3:3) purge and purify (burn up wood, hay and stubble) in His vessels of honor. So I am happy and full of joy to be in the lake of fire now, To day... this is the second death; others will be  drawn or dragged later.
Peace and Love Through Jesus

But Micah, I thought you were in Christ. Is Christ the lake of fire? Is He not in the book of life? Is He unsaved? Does He need purified?

Nowhere does the Bible say the lake of fire purifies anyone. Only Jesus makes people accpetable to God. All mankind will be headed up in Christ (Ephesians 1:9) and so will be justified, reconciled to God and perfect.

[Molly]

Matthew 3:11
"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.




2And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

3And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.

4And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.

5And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

--Ex 3

[Molly]

2 But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner's fire or a launderer's soap. 3 He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the Levites and refine them like gold and silver. Then the LORD will have men who will bring offerings in righteousness,

--Mal 3

[Beloved Servant]

"This is talking about one perfect man [comprised of many men]--the Christ.  I never saw it that way before."

Wonderful, Molly, He is wonderful.
Come Lord Jesus,Come.

[Tony N]

2 But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner's fire or a launderer's soap. 3 He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the Levites and refine them like gold and silver. Then the LORD will have men who will bring offerings in righteousness,

--Mal 3

The day of His coming is 1000 years before the lake of fire comes into play.

Also it doesn't say He is a refiner's fire or He is soap. The words "like" and "as" show it is a metaphor.

[Tony N]

Matthew 3:11
"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

2And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

3And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.

4And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.

5And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

--Ex 3

Molly, this thread is about the lake of fire, the second death. What you postesd above has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

[Molly]

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.



Hebrews 1:7
And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

Also it doesn't say He is a refiner's fire or He is soap. The words "like" and "as" show it is a metaphor.

Yes, it's a kind of fire that won't consume a common bush.

[micah7:9]

2 But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner's fire or a launderer's soap. 3 He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the Levites and refine them like gold and silver. Then the LORD will have men who will bring offerings in righteousness,

--Mal 3

The day of His coming is 1000 years before the lake of fire comes into play.

Also it doesn't say He is a refiner's fire or He is soap. The words "like" and "as" show it is a metaphor.

So is  lake of fire

[micah7:9]

"But Micah, I thought you were in Christ. Is Christ the lake of fire? Is He not in the book of life? Is He unsaved? Does He need purified?"
I am.  Yes.     I/we are the book of life.
The last two questions are silly.

[Tony N]

"But Micah, I thought you were in Christ. Is Christ the lake of fire? Is He not in the book of life? Is He unsaved? Does He need purified?"
I am.  Yes.     I/we are the book of life.
The last two questions are silly.

The last two questions are not silly really.

If you are in Christ you would not be in the lake of fire.

Christ is not the lake of fire. Christ is life, not death.

If Christ is in the book of life He would not be in the lake of fire and neither would you be since you are in Christ.

[Molly]

Christ is not the lake of fire. Christ is life, not death.

Do you think the lake of fire is annihilation?

[CHB]

C, do you think some of it could have dual/multiple fulfillment?  And if so, then the challenge is knowing which and how....

It is possible. A lot of the Bible has a dual, multiple fulfillment. John did see things which was, which are, and things that would be. Whether all things "that will be" happened in John's day, I do not know. I think that most of it did happen in John's day, whether it will be repeated is another question.

CHB

[Tony N]

Christ is not the lake of fire. Christ is life, not death.

Do you think the lake of fire is annihilation?

It is said to be death. Death is the absence of life.

[micah7:9]

"But Micah, I thought you were in Christ. Is Christ the lake of fire? Is He not in the book of life? Is He unsaved? Does He need purified?"
I am.  Yes.     I/we are the book of life.
The last two questions are silly.

The last two questions are not silly really.

If you are in Christ you would not be in the lake of fire.

Christ is not the lake of fire. Christ is life, not death.

If Christ is in the book of life He would not be in the lake of fire and neither would you be since you are in Christ.

Why are you so negative about the lake of fire?

[micah7:9]

Christ is not the lake of fire. Christ is life, not death.

Do you think the lake of fire is annihilation?

It is said to be death. Death is the absence of life.

Before you can have life you must die. The lake of fire only burns up, annialates the wood, hay and stubble, the dross, the stuff that Father does not want. It is Christ in me the hope of glory, the only way to that glory is by God fire. Matt.3:11 Lu. 3:16

[WhiteWings]

It is said to be death. Death is the absence of life.

Or the birth of new life...
The death of what?
What if the fire just means death to the other sinful shell; and the good part is preserved/revealed?

[Tony N]

Christ is not the lake of fire. Christ is life, not death.

Do you think the lake of fire is annihilation?

It is said to be death. Death is the absence of life.

Before you can have life you must die. The lake of fire only burns up, annialates the wood, hay and stubble, the dross, the stuff that Father does not want. It is Christ in me the hope of glory, the only way to that glory is by God fire. Matt.3:11 Lu. 3:16

Before you can have life you must die. The lake of fire only burns up, annialates the wood, hay and stubble, the dross, the stuff that Father does not want. It is Christ in me the hope of glory, the only way to that glory is by God fire. Matt.3:11 Lu. 3:16
[/quote]

Not all who die go through the lake of fire. For instance, everyone dies the first death which is not the lake of fire. The second death is the lake of fire.
The people who died the 1st death are later resurrected to enter the lake of fire which is their second death.

[Tony N]

"But Micah, I thought you were in Christ. Is Christ the lake of fire? Is He not in the book of life? Is He unsaved? Does He need purified?"
I am.  Yes.     I/we are the book of life.
The last two questions are silly.

The last two questions are not silly really.

If you are in Christ you would not be in the lake of fire.

Christ is not the lake of fire. Christ is life, not death.

If Christ is in the book of life He would not be in the lake of fire and neither would you be since you are in Christ.

Why are you so negative about the lake of fire?

Why do you think being inquisitive about what people believe about the lake of fire is negative?