The lake of fire or Le lac de feu

[Zeek]

Rom 8:22  For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.


NOW, was then.  Not NOW 2000 years later.  Time was at hand.  The gospel had been preached to EVERY CREATURE, and we know that when that happened


Col 1:23  If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Mat 24:14  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

[Cardinal]

You prove it to yourself.

Is Jesus revealed in you, is His Holy Spirit present in you, are you a son of God?

You have said yes.

The Sons of God have been revealed. Christ within.

The whole doctrine of the revealing of the sons is just an unbilical idea set forth, a movement of people liked it and it came to life. Just like other "great spiritual" visionaries, this one luckly doesn't demand sacrifce to catch a comet.

:cloud9: :cloud9: So we should swallow the full preterist view instead?

There were two thieves on either side of THE cross. One wanted Him to come down (so it would be finished BEFORE the death to self) if He be the son of God, and the other wanted Him to remember Him WHEN He came into His kingdom (He was ALREADY King).

One is too soon (preterists), the other too late (let me die to inherit), but the Truth dwells directly in the middle, the NOW is the day of your salvation.

He is in the NOW, ie. whatever revelation He brings to you to conform you into the image of the Son in the NOW, that is the twinkling of an eye (speaks of understanding by illumination of the Spirit/light) by which we are changed from glory terrestrial (natural fleshly understanding) to glory celestial (spiritual understanding from the mind of Christ).

And since the sons of God are Christ in His many-membered body, and since God's Word cannot lie, He WILL have a body He can lay His head (FULL authority) on. Blessings....

[Zeek]

You prove it to yourself.

Is Jesus revealed in you, is His Holy Spirit present in you, are you a son of God?

You have said yes.

The Sons of God have been revealed. Christ within.

The whole doctrine of the revealing of the sons is just an unbilical idea set forth, a movement of people liked it and it came to life. Just like other "great spiritual" visionaries, this one luckly doesn't demand sacrifce to catch a comet.

:cloud9: :cloud9: So we should swallow the full preterist view instead?

There were two thieves on either side of THE cross. One wanted Him to come down (it is finished BEFORE the death to self) if He be the son of God, and the other wanted Him to remember Him WHEN He came into His kingdom (He was ALREADY King).

One is too soon (preterists), the other too late (let me die to inherit), but the Truth dwells directly in the middle, the NOW is the day of your salvation.

He is in the NOW, ie. whatever revelation He brings to you to conform you into the image of the Son in the NOW, that is the twinkling of an eye (speaks of understanding by illumination of the Spirit/light) by which we are changed from glory terrestrial (natural fleshly understanding) to glory celestial (spiritual understanding from the mind of Christ).

And since the sons of God are Christ in His many-membered body, and since God's Word cannot lie, He WILL have a body He can lay His head (FULL authority) on. Blessings....

Then there will never be a manifestation of the sons of God, because it will always be NOW; unless you are saying that the Sons ARE being manifest NOW.

[Dallas]

So we should swallow the full preterist view instead?

We should follow, solid biblical reasoning, not self-interest interpretation.

It's not about following one view, it's not about straying from biblical context.


Nice post zeek

[Beloved Servant]

Beloved, now are we children of God, and it was not as yet manifested what we shall be. We are aware that, if He should be manifested, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him according as He is.

[Zeek]

And since the sons of God are Christ in His many-membered body, and since God's Word cannot lie, He WILL have a body He can lay His head (FULL authority) on. Blessings....

He "will have" is a future statement; which will never occur under your belief; because there will never be a "future", but only a NOW

[Beloved Servant]

...just ain't seeing Him yet.
...and this is "church."

[Zeek]

Beloved, now are we children of God, and it was not as yet manifested what we shall be. We are aware that, if He should be manifested, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him according as He is.

can't have a "shall be" if today is NOW, and NOW is all there is.  

[Dallas]

BS, you are still dodging my question.

You said the promise has not yet come, but the scripure says it has.

I am questioning your statement;

You believe all scripture.

[peacemaker]

Lake of fire a thriving portal.

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego!

[jabcat]

Guest (207.192.255.110)  09:39:34 PM Viewing the topic The lake of fire or Le lac de feu.

[Dallas]

Hey Zeek;

Romans 8:22 "For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now."

Not to be rude to others, but great defense of scripture. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Beloved Servant]

Ephesians:
13 In Whom you also -- on hearing the word of truth, the evangel of your salvation -- in Whom on believing also, you are sealed with the holy spirit of promise
14 (which is an earnest of the enjoyment of our allotment, to the deliverance of that which has been procured) for the laud of His glory!

Without a whiff of smoke, Peacemaker.

And dallas, stop referring to me as BS, given U.S. vanacular, I shall refer to you as DL

[Dallas]

B as in Beloved and S as in Servant....

Hence, BS.

Also, how come you said you believe all scripture, but can't answer my question.

[Beloved Servant]

The Scriptures say when we see Him we shall be like Him.

Ephesians:
13 In Whom you also -- on hearing the word of truth, the evangel of your salvation -- in Whom on believing also, you are sealed with the holy spirit of promise
14 (which is an earnest of the enjoyment of our allotment, to the deliverance of that which has been procured) for the laud of His glory!

I understand the initials DL.

[Dallas]

you are sealed with the holy spirit of promise

Hey BS;

You said that we are WAITING the promise, but the very scripture you quoted says we have the promise, the holy spirit, and he seals us!

You are saying then we have the promises? Because that's what it sounds like, what then did you mean that we don't have the promise?

also


Romans 8:22 "For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now."

You believe all scripture, how can there be a coming revealing when Paul says 2000 years ago it happened?

You believe all scriptures, then please answer.

[Beloved Servant]

First, quit referring to me as BS.

[Cardinal]

Hey Zeek;

Romans 8:22 "For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now."

Not to be rude to others, but great defense of scripture. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

:cloud9: And do you understand why it said "until now"? It's not because it ended then, it's because it BEGAN TO BE FINISHED THEN, in the body.

ALL of creation was/is under Hagar until He came/comes. Because the Son of God being birthed is a spiritual one, and the HEAD comes out first in a normal delivery, and that He did.

If you recall being BORN FROM ABOVE, caught up into our mother, heavenly Jerusalem, is the qualification for being BIRTHED into the Kingdom.

He did exactly that in pattern, as the HEAD, when He died, arose and ascended into "mother. It's our turn now, and I can tell you that NO MAN has ascended to heaven but He (Christ as Spirit Seed) that first came down from heaven.

According to the pattern of the Tabernacle timeline, and the dictates of a normal birth, the FEET are last, and this generation is the generation that is to walk Him around in shoe leather again, IN FULLNESS. Blessings....

[Dallas]

I'm seriously not being out of line here.

But how can I take you seriously when you won't simply acknowledge you made a mistake. We all do it, I do it. Serious how can I have an intellectual conversation with you when I can't trust what you say. You made a mistake and if you can't acknolwdge that how can anyone trust your interpretation if you fight this, it poses the question what esle are you "stubbornly" holding onto.

Not trying to be rude, honestly.

[Beloved Servant]

Second:
I refer to this Scripture as I dust off my sandals for fertile ground.

1 Now this know, that in the last days perilous periods will be present,
2 for men will be selfish, fond of money, ostentatious, proud, calumniators, stubborn to parents, ungrateful, malign,
3 without natural affection, implacable, adversaries, uncontrollable, fierce, averse to the good,
4 traitors, rash, conceited, fond of their own gratification rather than fond of God;
5 having a form of devoutness, yet denying its power.
6 These, also, shun. For of these are those who are slipping into homes and are leading into captivity little women, heaped with sins, being led by various lusts and gratifications,
7 always learning and yet not at any time able to come into a realization of the truth.



20 "He Who is testifying these things is saying, 'Yea, I am coming swiftly.'" "Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!"

Please Lord, Come, Lord Jesus!

[Dallas]

And do you understand why it said "until now"? It's not because it ended then, it's because it BEGAN TO BE FINISHED THEN.

Romans 8:22 "For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now."

Read it in context, it says striaght forward, the whole creation groaned, until then!

I was walking in bad shoes until now. The sentance obviously means I was walking in shoes until then. Because it was present tense when Paul was talking he used the word now.

Just as in;

1 Corinthians 4:13 "when we are slandered, we try to conciliate; we have become as the scum of the world, the dregs of all things, even until now."

1 Corinthians 8:7 "However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

1 Corinthians 15:6 "After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;"

Piliipians 1:5 "in view of yourparticipation in the gospel from the first day until now."

[Beloved Servant]

Wow, you got a strong spirit Dallas.

[Dallas]

Second:
I refer to this Scripture as I dust off my sandals for fertile ground.

1 Now this know, that in the last days perilous periods will be present,
2 for men will be selfish, fond of money, ostentatious, proud, calumniators, stubborn to parents, ungrateful, malign,
3 without natural affection, implacable, adversaries, uncontrollable, fierce, averse to the good,
4 traitors, rash, conceited, fond of their own gratification rather than fond of God;
5 having a form of devoutness, yet denying its power.
6 These, also, shun. For of these are those who are slipping into homes and are leading into captivity little women, heaped with sins, being led by various lusts and gratifications,
7 always learning and yet not at any time able to come into a realization of the truth.



20 "He Who is testifying these things is saying, 'Yea, I am coming swiftly.'" "Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!"

Please Lord, Come, Lord Jesus

So then you can't simply acknowledge it then. As you quoted I hope you also read, for you gave me the advice;

So unfourtunatley I guess I will have to shun you, I wished it wouldn't have come to that, but if you can;t live in truth, we'll I guess you are limiting your fellowship.

[Beloved Servant]

G'night Dallas,
Give your girlfriend a big kiss g'night for me before you drive her home.
Peace be with you, you have a very strong spirit inside, peace be with you.

[Cardinal]

And do you understand why it said "until now"? It's not because it ended then, it's because it BEGAN TO BE FINISHED THEN.

Romans 8:22 "For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now."

Read it in context, it says striaght forward, the whole creation groaned, until then!

I was walking in bad shoes until now. The sentance obviously means I was walking in shoes until then. Because it was present tense when Paul was talking he used the word now.

Just as in;

1 Corinthians 4:13 "when we are slandered, we try to conciliate; we have become as the scum of the world, the dregs of all things, even until now."

1 Corinthians 8:7 "However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

1 Corinthians 15:6 "After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;"

Piliipians 1:5 "in view of yourparticipation in the gospel from the first day until now."

:cloud9: Yes, it does and I explained why. Coming out from under the flesh of our natural mother "Hagar" who only reproduces an Ishmael, which is what BEGAN for all creation with the appearance of the firstborn Son. Refusal to follow all the principles contained in the provision, results in staying under the flesh of "mother" below, ie. stillborn. Blessings....