Natural and Spiritual

[Nathan]

Claypot, what needs explaining? It is what it is. It just has to be believed to be what it is.
"All power" "signs" and "false miracles." KJV has "lying wonders" for "false miracles."

All power would be like the power of Satan and would hold dominion on the earth for he is the god of this eon.
When he comes he will come with all pwer and for 3 1/2 years will amalgamate dominions to his control. The latter 3 1/2 years he will persecute Christ's brethren from Jerusalem.

"signs and false miracles" are just what they are.

These things are not exhibited in Christian's flesh no matter how wild one's imagination might be. It is not spiritual to claim these things are in a Christian's flesh.

Please explain more.

The power of Satan would hold dominion on the earth. What in the world does this mean?

For that matter what does the god of this eon mean. Satan isn't the god of any other eon? What makes him the god of this eon and not the others?

When you say he will come with all power, really, what does that mean? Doesn't only God have all power? Are you putting Satan over God for this eon at least?

Tony, I am serious. I want to know your side. This is very important what you are preaching as truth. You don't need to give me long detailed answers or even quote tons of Scripture. Explain to me like you would to the average person.

Thanks in advance Bro.

cp

Dear cp, please read Revelation 13 as to the antichrist or man of lawlessness of Thessalonians and Daniel and Matthew 24.

god of this eon. This eon is the wicked eon (Gal.4:1). Satan is the god of this eon. This eon is especially wicked in that it was the eon in which Christ was crucified. He won't be the god of the next eon for he will be incarcerated in the abyss.

Coming with all power. Satan will give him all the power he needs for world domination. Read Rev.13.

Before you read that . . .you may want to camp out on Revelation 1:1 first and let God do the revealing from there.  It doesn't matter how strongly some are convinced these things are yet to take place literally, 2000 years after the fact, even though the time was at hand THEN . . .this book is a book of symbols.  Does everyone know what that actually means?  It means colors represent characteristics of Christ, they don't represent other colors.  The symbol has nothing to do with itself in the literal sense, it stands for something else completely.  

In the same way, times referred to . . .such as a thousand years, 42 months, 3 1/2 years . .even an age . .. they represent other things . . .so before you read Revelation 13 and try to cram it into a futuristic event . . .pay closer attention to the fact that they symbolize things other than what is written there on the page.

Consider this . . . Israel and Palestine has been at war with each other since their conception . . .never have they ever had peace, even though that's what they pray for every minute of every day . . . and yet . . . you beleive that the day will come when they will become friends?  Or how about Afganistan and the US?  We are not just Satan to them . . . I just heard this on the news radio yesterday . . . we are the Great Satan . . .

If you do a study on this book's history, you'll find that those people who believe opposite of what we do about the rapture . . about UR, about gifts of the spirit . . .hell . .the lake of fire . .on and on, these are the same people who also believe these things in Revelation are a futuristic event yet to happen as well.  Their foundation is off on everything else, what makes us think that they then got this piece right?  

I believe there are always going to be things in us that we are not aware of the fact that it was a doctrine of man that engrained it into us.  But the key is . .to be willing to let God change our perceptions of what we believe to be true.  The moment we put up our walls of defense to maintain our belief, is the moment we stop growing in the Lord.

Those that see this no longer as a future event . . . such as myself  . . . are not walking with a closed mind, but an open one.  That's what caused me to leave what I used to believe . . .which is, I to used to believe it was a futuristic event .  . . and being open to the leading of the Spirit, I have come into a completely different understanding of these things.  

It is clear that there are opposite points of view here, so, now what?  Are we going to try to take it upon ourselves to be Holy Ghost jr. and convict those that are rejecting our message?  It pretty much boils down to . . ."My" relationship with the Father has led me to believe that it's a spiritual picture that is predominant over a physical happening . .or yet to happen, happening.  And "your" relationship with the Father has you seeing it as a futuristic event.  

There is nothing, at this point in my relationship, that you will say on this matter, that is going to cause me to reverse what I see now, and bring me "back" to where I was on it.  I've yet to come across anyone who can say the same only in reverse.  Meaning, I've yet to come across anyone who has seen the spiritual truth the lies beneath and chose to go back to interpreting what lies on the surface.

Once the two positions are clearly drawn, any further arguments on the matter is just kicking against the goads.  The conversations seem to become more destructive by nature than uplifting.  I think there is much to be said about using the diversity of another to bring out the light and truth of a situation and let the readers accept and see what they can in the conversations.  But to drag things out to the point to where some people are building calluses against others due to the fact that we're coming at each other from totally opposite ends of the spectrum, just doesn't seem to be a healthy way of growing in the Lord to me.

[Tony N]

Claypot, what needs explaining? It is what it is. It just has to be believed to be what it is.
"All power" "signs" and "false miracles." KJV has "lying wonders" for "false miracles."

All power would be like the power of Satan and would hold dominion on the earth for he is the god of this eon.
When he comes he will come with all pwer and for 3 1/2 years will amalgamate dominions to his control. The latter 3 1/2 years he will persecute Christ's brethren from Jerusalem.

"signs and false miracles" are just what they are.

These things are not exhibited in Christian's flesh no matter how wild one's imagination might be. It is not spiritual to claim these things are in a Christian's flesh.

Please explain more.

The power of Satan would hold dominion on the earth. What in the world does this mean?

For that matter what does the god of this eon mean. Satan isn't the god of any other eon? What makes him the god of this eon and not the others?

When you say he will come with all power, really, what does that mean? Doesn't only God have all power? Are you putting Satan over God for this eon at least?

Tony, I am serious. I want to know your side. This is very important what you are preaching as truth. You don't need to give me long detailed answers or even quote tons of Scripture. Explain to me like you would to the average person.

Thanks in advance Bro.

cp

Dear cp, please read Revelation 13 as to the antichrist or man of lawlessness of Thessalonians and Daniel and Matthew 24.

god of this eon. This eon is the wicked eon (Gal.4:1). Satan is the god of this eon. This eon is especially wicked in that it was the eon in which Christ was crucified. He won't be the god of the next eon for he will be incarcerated in the abyss.

Coming with all power. Satan will give him all the power he needs for world domination. Read Rev.13.

Tony, is that the extent of your explanation?

You did tell me to be brief, didn't you?  :laughing7:

Do you think things will work out like we see in the end time shows? You know, like Omega Code and Omega Code 2. If you haven't seen these you surely must have watched some end time shows. You know, where a seemingly really good guy takes over the world and everything is really nice and then after 3 1/2 years he goes bonkers and starts to kill Christians and then Jesus comes and wipes him out and the earth turns green and lush again. Is this what God's message is to you in Revelation and Daniel and Matthew concerning the end times and anti christ?

I have not seen those end time shows.
I believe that this man of lawlessness will, by craft and lies, amalgamate the world kingdoms to be under his control. And for 3 1/2 years everying will go well for the Jews but at the end of that 3 1/2 years he will turn on the true Jewish believers and for 3 1/2 years will persecute them. This will not be the case for Christians of this era of grace. We will be taken out before he is revealed to begin with as Paul states in 2 Thessalonians.
Before Christ returns there will also be a world-wide earthquake in which all the cities of the nations will fall (Rev.16). So He is coming back to a world that has been wrecked.

Do you see in Matthew that God's message is that Jesus will gather up whole nations and condemn or reward whole nations depending on if they gave Him water or visited Him in prison or visited Him when He was sick? If so what does this mean to you. In a nation might there not be some good people?

We have the United Nations building in New York. When each representative of each nation is seated it is said that all the nations are present there. This does not mean that every individual of every nation fits into the U.N. building. Thus it will be at the judgment in Matthew 24:31-46. All the nations will be represented by a representative of their respective nation. If a nation maltreated Christ's Jewish brethren during their great tribulation, Christ will tell that representative that their nation is going away into eonian chastening. Of course there may be some good people living in that nation that mistreated Christ's brethren. I don't know if Christ will allow political asylum for such individuals who may have helped His brethren within that country which as a whole persecuted them.
Germany is a good example. As a country, Germany persecuted the Jews. yet at the same time some Germans helped some Jews. Yet Israel made Germany pay reparations which meant that even the good people who helped the Jews were being hurt by these reparations. But often the Jews would recognize these good people who helped them.

How does a moon turn to blood? Is this literal to you?

How does the sun turn into darkness? The sun will lose 1/3 of its brightness due, I believe, to a dust cloud which our solar system will enter into. This dust cloud will darken the sun and make the moon look like blood. They are figures of speech.

Do we just wait for the stars to fall and the sun to darken. Was Jesus just telling us of some physical things that will happen in some future time when you and I will probably be in the grave anyway.

No, we won't be in the grave but with Christ among the celestials while this is going on.

In all these scenarios, if taken as you seem to want me to take them, I see them as only affecting those who are alive when they happen. You know, like the 7 year thing. Only those who are alive in that generation will have to worry won't they? When the stars are falling and the moon turning to blood, won't it be only those who are alive on that particular day that will be affected? Only they will have to run to the mountains for safety. To I and every other person ever born these things really don't matter do they?

cp

These things will affect everyone living on the earth WHEN they occur.
We will be "outa here" as they say, during this time.
I believe the "stars falling" is like when we talk about "shooting stars" which are dust particles falling to earth which look like falling stars due to ther bright fiery tail. This will be due to the dust cloud our solar system will enter into which will darken the sun and moon and make the stars to not be seen.

[Taffy]

We have the United Nations building in New York. When each representative of each nation is seated it is said that all the nations are present there. This does not mean that every individual of every nation fits into the U.N. building. Thus it will be at the judgment in Matthew 24:31-46.

ROFL... :icon_flower:

[Tony N]

We have the United Nations building in New York. When each representative of each nation is seated it is said that all the nations are present there. This does not mean that every individual of every nation fits into the U.N. building. Thus it will be at the judgment in Matthew 24:31-46.

ROFL... :icon_flower:

Why do you find that funny, Taffy?

[Taffy]

We have the United Nations building in New York. When each representative of each nation is seated it is said that all the nations are present there. This does not mean that every individual of every nation fits into the U.N. building. Thus it will be at the judgment in Matthew 24:31-46.

ROFL... :icon_flower:

Why do you find that funny, Taffy?

No Not Funny Tony, Darn Hilarious ,specially after I read this just after the *CRACKPOT* reference...kinda tickled me...

Its about  that Bit on NY, of course we ( thats the rest of the WORLD) kNOW THE *USA* IS THE CENTRE of the universe..., so,Would I find reference to this In the Margin in Mathew....


:icon_flower:

[Tony N]

We have the United Nations building in New York. When each representative of each nation is seated it is said that all the nations are present there. This does not mean that every individual of every nation fits into the U.N. building. Thus it will be at the judgment in Matthew 24:31-46.

ROFL... :icon_flower:

Why do you find that funny, Taffy?

No Not Funny Tony, Darn Hilarious ,specially after I read this just after the *CRACKPOT* reference...kinda tickled me...

Its about  that Bit on NY, of course we ( thats the rest of the WORLD) kNOW THE *USA* IS THE CENTRE of the universe..., so,Would I find reference to this In the Margin in Mathew....


:icon_flower:

Dear Taffy,
I'm not saying Christ is going to judge the nations at the United Nations building. I am saying it is LIKE when representatives of nations go to the U.N. building that it will be LIKE that when the representatives go to Israel to be judged as to how their respective nations treated Christ's brethren.
Every individual in the world will not fit into the small area where the judgment will take place. So representatives are sent.

[Taffy]

We have the United Nations building in New York. When each representative of each nation is seated it is said that all the nations are present there. This does not mean that every individual of every nation fits into the U.N. building. Thus it will be at the judgment in Matthew 24:31-46.

ROFL... :icon_flower:

Why do you find that funny, Taffy?

No Not Funny Tony, Darn Hilarious ,specially after I read this just after the *CRACKPOT* reference...kinda tickled me...

Its about  that Bit on NY, of course we ( thats the rest of the WORLD) kNOW THE *USA* IS THE CENTRE of the universe..., so,Would I find reference to this In the Margin in Mathew....


:icon_flower:

Dear Taffy,
I'm not saying Christ is going to judge the nations at the United Nations building. I am saying it is LIKE when representatives of nations go to the U.N. building that it will be LIKE that when the representatives go to Israel to be judged as to how their respective nations treated Christ's brethren.
Every individual in the world will not fit into the small area where the judgment will take place. So representatives are sent.

Gee...Kinda took ya Literally Bud....I must  come  to  understand analogies, similitudes, shadows et all....might Help me some....

:icon_flower:

[claypot]

I wrote....

In all these scenarios, if taken as you seem to want me to take them, I see them as only affecting those who are alive when they happen. You know, like the 7 year thing. Only those who are alive in that generation will have to worry won't they? When the stars are falling and the moon turning to blood, won't it be only those who are alive on that particular day that will be affected? Only they will have to run to the mountains for safety. To I and every other person ever born these things really don't matter do they?

Tony, you wrote...

These things will affect everyone living on the earth WHEN they occur.
We will be "outa here" as they say, during this time.
I believe the "stars falling" is like when we talk about "shooting stars" which are dust particles falling to earth which look like falling stars due to ther bright fiery tail. This will be due to the dust cloud our solar system will enter into which will darken the sun and moon and make the stars to not be seen.

So, according to you Tony, only the people living on the earth at the time when these things occur will be affected. These things then have no meaning to anyone else of any other generation in any way according to you?

Are you saying that the stars falling are not literal physical stars falling?

Brother, you should watch shows like Omega Code 2. They depict the end times almost word for word as you do.

Tony, you said...

I believe that this man of lawlessness will, by craft and lies, amalgamate the world kingdoms to be under his control.

Whose control is the world under now in your opinion? Will God be overpowered by this man of lawlessness's craft and lies so that God loses control for a time?

Thank you for clarifying some things, Brother and please be patient with me as I seek wisdom.

cp

[sheila]

  Hi Tony

 In regard to calling fire down from heaven...this can be an apparent answer to a prayer..or request for God to declare whom He is with..as difinitive in Elijah and the false prophets
of Baal.

 Also, it is the calling down of condemnation and the judgement of God on those we judge as worthy of destruction.
 Do you not realize that the Muslim zealots..with their strike on the USA trade center...and the falling of the economy  of
the USA 7 years later..is their [god]  doing a miraculous work of judgement against us in their eyes?

  Now, we who follow Jesus know what He said to the sons of thunder in regard to calling down fire from heaven on men in judgement.....and those that do such things know not what matter of spirit they are. They do not know the TRUE GOD..but
there is someone sitting in that seat of Moses in their temple
 JUDGING LAW and not being a doer of the Law.

  Now the tsunami that hit the Muslims countries..caused some
  to rethink such things...and yet,Christians and jews have thought this ,too. was their God exacting venegance.Again,
 judging law and not doing law

    Jesus said 'love your enemies" And those with such perceptions of God..have another image in their temple..
Not the TRUE GOD..

                                    my :2c:

   

[Tony N]

I wrote....

In all these scenarios, if taken as you seem to want me to take them, I see them as only affecting those who are alive when they happen. You know, like the 7 year thing. Only those who are alive in that generation will have to worry won't they? When the stars are falling and the moon turning to blood, won't it be only those who are alive on that particular day that will be affected? Only they will have to run to the mountains for safety. To I and every other person ever born these things really don't matter do they?

Tony, you wrote...

These things will affect everyone living on the earth WHEN they occur.
We will be "outa here" as they say, during this time.
I believe the "stars falling" is like when we talk about "shooting stars" which are dust particles falling to earth which look like falling stars due to ther bright fiery tail. This will be due to the dust cloud our solar system will enter into which will darken the sun and moon and make the stars to not be seen.

So, according to you Tony, only the people living on the earth at the time when these things occur will be affected. These things then have no meaning to anyone else of any other generation in any way according to you?

Yes, only the people living on the earth at the time these things occur will be affected. Dead people can't be affected because the are, well, you know, dead. Now then, you didn't ask if any of the generation Christ spoke these words to would be resurrected and living at the time those things occur. I believe they will.

Are you saying that the stars falling are not literal physical stars falling?

Danger Will Rogers, trick question!

Brother, you should watch shows like Omega Code 2. They depict the end times almost word for word as you do.

Tony, you said...

I believe that this man of lawlessness will, by craft and lies, amalgamate the world kingdoms to be under his control.

Whose control is the world under now in your opinion? Will God be overpowered by this man of lawlessness's craft and lies so that God loses control for a time?

Just as the kingdoms of this world are run by Satan, and Satan is under God's control, thus the man of lawlessness will be under Satan's control who is under God's control.

Thank you for clarifying some things, Brother and please be patient with me as I seek wisdom.

[claypot]

I wrote....

In all these scenarios, if taken as you seem to want me to take them, I see them as only affecting those who are alive when they happen. You know, like the 7 year thing. Only those who are alive in that generation will have to worry won't they? When the stars are falling and the moon turning to blood, won't it be only those who are alive on that particular day that will be affected? Only they will have to run to the mountains for safety. To I and every other person ever born these things really don't matter do they?

Tony, you wrote...

These things will affect everyone living on the earth WHEN they occur.
We will be "outa here" as they say, during this time.
I believe the "stars falling" is like when we talk about "shooting stars" which are dust particles falling to earth which look like falling stars due to ther bright fiery tail. This will be due to the dust cloud our solar system will enter into which will darken the sun and moon and make the stars to not be seen.

So, according to you Tony, only the people living on the earth at the time when these things occur will be affected. These things then have no meaning to anyone else of any other generation in any way according to you?

Yes, only the people living on the earth at the time these things occur will be affected. Dead people can't be affected because the are, well, you know, dead. Now then, you didn't ask if any of the generation Christ spoke these words to would be resurrected and living at the time those things occur. I believe they will.

So all of these things that will happen that are written about in so much of the Bible are really only for a relatively few people?

Are you adding just the people to whom Jesus physically spoke these words to?

So no other people will be around to really see any of the things we are speaking of?

Is most of the Bible kind of a dead book to the majority of people in your opinion?

Tony, here is one that is confusing me a bit too. You wrote....

Just as the kingdoms of this world are run by Satan, and Satan is under God's control, thus the man of lawlessness will be under Satan's control who is under God's control.

How, in your physical perspective, is Satan running the kingdoms of this world?

cp

[Tony N]

Why do you say it is for just a few people? The whole world is going to be controlled by the man of lawlessness. Does that mean more than a few to you?

1Jo 5:19 We are aware that we are of God, and the whole world is lying in the wicked one."

Jesus did not dispute that Satan was controlling the kingdoms of this world:

Luk 4:5-7  And, leading Him up into a high mountain, the Adversary shows Him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in a second of time."  (6)  And the Adversary said to Him, "To you shall I be giving all this authority and the glory of them, for it has been given up to me, and to whomsoever I may will, I am giving it."  (7)  If you, then, should ever be worshiping before me, it will all be yours."

But He did dispute his wanting to be worshipped.

He is the god of this eon. By "god" it is mean "placer" or "subjector" of this eon.

[Molly]

Why do you say it is for just a few people? The whole world is going to be controlled by the man of lawlessness. Does that mean more than a few to you?

LOL It already is.  Or haven't you noticed?



3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.


13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

--Rev 12

[claypot]

Why do you say it is for just a few people? The whole world is going to be controlled by the man of lawlessness. Does that mean more than a few to you?

1Jo 5:19 We are aware that we are of God, and the whole world is lying in the wicked one."

Jesus did not dispute that Satan was controlling the kingdoms of this world:

Luk 4:5-7  And, leading Him up into a high mountain, the Adversary shows Him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in a second of time."  (6)  And the Adversary said to Him, "To you shall I be giving all this authority and the glory of them, for it has been given up to me, and to whomsoever I may will, I am giving it."  (7)  If you, then, should ever be worshiping before me, it will all be yours."

But He did dispute his wanting to be worshipped.

He is the god of this eon. By "god" it is mean "placer" or "subjector" of this eon.

I mean by only a few people, that compared to all the people that have ever lived the people you think will benefit from all this 'Scripture' are very few.`Are you saying only those alive during the 7 year period of the man of lawlessness and the people to whom Jesus was talking to will witness man of lawlessness' reign?

Tony I did not ask if Jesus disputed that satan was controlling the kingdoms of the world, I asked...

How, in your physical perspective, is Satan running the kingdoms of this world?

I also asked you, but maybe you overlooked it, I asked.....

Is most of the Bible kind of a dead book to the majority of people in your opinion?

Can you please comment directly to these questions? They are important to me to try to understand your position.

cp

[WhiteWings]

Whole???

Aren't the believers immume that control?
Assuming the control is about leading people away from the Light...

[claypot]

Why do you say it is for just a few people? The whole world is going to be controlled by the man of lawlessness. Does that mean more than a few to you?

LOL It already is.  Or haven't you noticed?



3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.


13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

--Rev 12

Molly, I was going to ask Tony that later. I am curious now as to how, in his opinion, satan is controlling the world.

cp

[Taffy]

Claypot, what needs explaining? It is what it is. It just has to be believed to be what it is.
"All power" "signs" and "false miracles." KJV has "lying wonders" for "false miracles."

missed this- :icon_flower:

yeah T, sure be interesting to know what are these LYING signs ,(FALSE wonders)-FALSE miracles :icon_flower:

[peacemaker]

When he comes he will come with all power and for 3 1/2 years will amalgamate dominions to his control. The latter 3 1/2 years he will persecute Christ's brethren from Jerusalem.

It appears from the mindset of some, that there is a deep psychological need to blame sin, and the sin of others - such as that of Adam and Eve, on something outside of themselves.  Thus, the thought of Satan; "the" Anti-Christ to come, is one of the most popular themes throughout the churches, and worldly religions. Yet, it is that which comes from within the heart, and mind of men – "that defiles."

"Raising the exterior works, in order to protect their interior."

Let us Not continue to justify all manner of war and persecution with the demons of man!

peacemaker

(The prince of this world had it's end in 70 A.D.)

Christ's ministry, per se, was 3 1/2 years? Cutting it short, wouldn't you say?

4In whom the god of this world [aion] hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
--2 Cor 4:4

So are we no longer in the age where the god of this age is blinding the minds of men?  If we are still in that age, men are still blinded.

2 John 1:7
Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Are there still such deceivers going out into the world?  Is there one great deceiver who is still deceiving the whole world?

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him..

[which deceiveth the whole]  "world"

G3625
οἰκουμένη
oikoumenē
oy-kou-men'-ay
Feminine participle present passive of G3611 (as noun, by implication of G1093); land, that is, the (terrene part of the) globe; specifically the Roman empire: - earth, world.

Are we still dealing with the roman empire?  Or are we past this age of being deceived by satan?

1 John 3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

Therefore the world ... them which believe not ... knoweth us not, because they knew him not.

"I see" said, the blind man. Thus, Not All inhabitants (world) are blind, only them which believe Not the "Good News!"

peacemaker

[Tony N]

Claypot, what needs explaining? It is what it is. It just has to be believed to be what it is.
"All power" "signs" and "false miracles." KJV has "lying wonders" for "false miracles."

missed this- :icon_flower:

yeah T, sure be interesting to know what are these LYING signs ,(FALSE wonders)-FALSE miracles :icon_flower:

They might be like the magicians Moses and Aaron confronted in Egypt?

[Tony N]

How, in your physical perspective, is Satan running the kingdoms of this world?

I also asked you, but maybe you overlooked it, I asked.....

I believe he is in charge of the spiritual forces of wickedness. I believe that he makes the leaders of the world go to war etc. But he is God's dog on a leash, if you will. God is still in charge of Satan.

Is most of the Bible kind of a dead book to the majority of people in your opinion?

Can you please comment directly to these questions? They are important to me to try to understand your position.

cp

I don't know as I never asked anyone. But I will say this, until God opened my eyes and heart to the words of the evangel in the Bible, I could not understand them.

[claypot]

How, in your physical perspective, is Satan running the kingdoms of this world?

I also asked you, but maybe you overlooked it, I asked.....

I believe he is in charge of the spiritual forces of wickedness. I believe that he makes the leaders of the world go to war etc. But he is God's dog on a leash, if you will. God is still in charge of Satan.

Is most of the Bible kind of a dead book to the majority of people in your opinion?

Can you please comment directly to these questions? They are important to me to try to understand your position.

cp

I don't know as I never asked anyone. But I will say this, until God opened my eyes and heart to the words of the evangel in the Bible, I could not understand them.

Thanks Tony. What I meant when I asked you about the Bible being a dead book to most people is that according to what I am hearing from you only people who are alive at the time of occurances like the 7 year man of lawlessness' reign will be affected. Is this how you see it? Like David and Goliath. Other than it being a good story for Bible studies or bedtime do you see it applies to all people of all time in any way? Or is it an incident that is to be only applied in a physical way to the time of the occurance? If you do see it affecting all people, all the time, how do see this?

How would you describe what you call 'the spiritual forces of wickedness'? Are these forces literal in a physical way or literal in strictly spiritual ways? Either way, could you explain a bit?

Do you think the anti christ is here and maybe made Bush and other world leaders go to war?

cp

[Taffy]

Claypot, what needs explaining? It is what it is. It just has to be believed to be what it is.
"All power" "signs" and "false miracles." KJV has "lying wonders" for "false miracles."

missed this- :icon_flower:

yeah T, sure be interesting to know what are these LYING signs ,(FALSE wonders)-FALSE miracles :icon_flower:

They might be like the magicians Moses and Aaron confronted in Egypt?

(http://soleilimg1.free.fr/gifs/animaux/serpent/serpe022.gif)

Kinda agree, the Lying poisonous Tongues, which can mess the mind..kinda Decieve Being Flase and UNTRUE

Psa 78:43 How he had wrought his signs in Egypt, and his wonders in the field of Zoan: 

The sign\s and Wonder of HIM..healing the sick, the True physcian, Healing comes via faith , faith comes by SEEING and HEARING...Signs and WONDERS( miracles, in the EARTH and In the HEAVENS)..

Jhn 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye******* see *****y*****signs and wonders,**** *** ye will not believe. ***

Jhn 4:49 The nobleman saith unto him, Sir, come down ere my child die.


Jhn 4:50 Jesus saith unto him, Go thy way; thy son liveth. And the man believed the word that Jesus had spoken unto him, and he went his way.


Jhn 4:51 And as he was now going down, his servants met him, and told [him], saying, Thy son liveth.


Jhn 4:52 Then enquired he of them the hour when he began to amend. And they said unto him, Yesterday at the seventh hour the fever left him.


Jhn 4:53 So the father knew that [it was] at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.


Jhn 4:54 This [is] again the second miracle [that] Jesus did, when he was come out of Judaea into Galilee.

EVER THOUGHT Our Minds a wrought by Miracles and the TRUE sign Being HIM.... :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

[Tony N]

How, in your physical perspective, is Satan running the kingdoms of this world?

I also asked you, but maybe you overlooked it, I asked.....

I believe he is in charge of the spiritual forces of wickedness. I believe that he makes the leaders of the world go to war etc. But he is God's dog on a leash, if you will. God is still in charge of Satan.

Is most of the Bible kind of a dead book to the majority of people in your opinion?

Can you please comment directly to these questions? They are important to me to try to understand your position.

cp

I don't know as I never asked anyone. But I will say this, until God opened my eyes and heart to the words of the evangel in the Bible, I could not understand them.

Thanks Tony. What I meant when I asked you about the Bible being a dead book to most people is that according to what I am hearing from you only people who are alive at the time of occurances like the 7 year man of lawlessness' reign will be affected. Is this how you see it? Like David and Goliath. Other than it being a good story for Bible studies or bedtime do you see it applies to all people of all time in any way? Or is it an incident that is to be only applied in a physical way to the time of the occurance? If you do see it affecting all people, all the time, how do see this?

All people who have lived on this earth since Paul penned the account of the man of lawlessness have not literally experienced his 7 year stint. The good news is that all Christians who have lived and who have read what Paul wrote on this matter and believed, were concoled that "the day of the Lord is not present" until those things Paul wrote about in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-11 would come to pass. That is the spiritual application it has today in that it consoles us.

How would you describe what you call 'the spiritual forces of wickedness'? Are these forces literal in a physical way or literal in strictly spiritual ways? Either way, could you explain a bit?

I believe the forces are literal in a spiritual way. In other words they literally are wicked spirits?

Eph 2:2 in which once you walked, in accord with the eon of this world, in accord with the chief of the jurisdiction of the air, the spirit now operating in the sons of stubbornness "

Do you think the anti christ is here and maybe made Bush and other world leaders go to war?

I would have no idea if the antichrist is here. But surely Satan made them go to war because God willed it.

[claypot]

How, in your physical perspective, is Satan running the kingdoms of this world?

I also asked you, but maybe you overlooked it, I asked.....

I believe he is in charge of the spiritual forces of wickedness. I believe that he makes the leaders of the world go to war etc. But he is God's dog on a leash, if you will. God is still in charge of Satan.

Is most of the Bible kind of a dead book to the majority of people in your opinion?

Can you please comment directly to these questions? They are important to me to try to understand your position.

cp

I don't know as I never asked anyone. But I will say this, until God opened my eyes and heart to the words of the evangel in the Bible, I could not understand them.

Thanks Tony. What I meant when I asked you about the Bible being a dead book to most people is that according to what I am hearing from you only people who are alive at the time of occurances like the 7 year man of lawlessness' reign will be affected. Is this how you see it? Like David and Goliath. Other than it being a good story for Bible studies or bedtime do you see it applies to all people of all time in any way? Or is it an incident that is to be only applied in a physical way to the time of the occurance? If you do see it affecting all people, all the time, how do see this?

All people who have lived on this earth since Paul penned the account of the man of lawlessness have not literally experienced his 7 year stint. The good news is that all Christians who have lived and who have read what Paul wrote on this matter and believed, were concoled that "the day of the Lord is not present" until those things Paul wrote about in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-11 would come to pass. That is the spiritual application it has today in that it consoles us.

How would you describe what you call 'the spiritual forces of wickedness'? Are these forces literal in a physical way or literal in strictly spiritual ways? Either way, could you explain a bit?

I believe the forces are literal in a spiritual way. In other words they literally are wicked spirits?

Eph 2:2 in which once you walked, in accord with the eon of this world, in accord with the chief of the jurisdiction of the air, the spirit now operating in the sons of stubbornness "

Do you think the anti christ is here and maybe made Bush and other world leaders go to war?

I would have no idea if the antichrist is here. But surely Satan made them go to war because God willed it.

Tony, I see you see much more in spiritual ways than you let on. The spirit realm is where the real living seems to take place and you show it to be true by your explanation of your views. I too see this as true.

Do you see God as only spirit?

All of the physical leads to the spiritual in some way. This I see and now I see you see it too and this helps me.

We'll be home soon Brother and yes, we are home right now for those who have ears to hear and eyes to see...........and believe me, I'm not talkin physical eyes and ears here!!!
cp

[Tony N]

claypot, I really was buried with Christ when He was burried. I also really was raised from the dead when He was raised. I really am seated with Christ among the heavens even now. I am a new creation now. I am alive from among the dead. I am righteous before God. I am in Christ. How's that for true spirituality? And I really believe it!