Natural and Spiritual

[Zeek]

Molly, your words in bold....

Ok I'm going to ask my question again, because I'm still wrestling with this--

What is the difference between Jesus and Adam--as men?  Why is Jesus obedient

and Adam is not?  Again, Jesus uses scripture to fight satan which Adam does not have--

is that the difference?

Great question/s. IMO Adam is the beginning of God making man in His image. 'He' is the floundering babe. 'He' is the clay, the dirt, the material of man. Jesus, on the other hand, is Gods finished product, completely filled with the Spirit. A done deal.

Molly I did comment on your question about Adam having Scripture. Are you thinking Adam needed a King James Bible or some such literal written work? I believe the first words spoke to Adam were Scripture. They talked, God and Adam did.


And, how does one obtain a 'quickening spirit,' -- is that something Jesus had

before the cross?  Or did that only happen after the resurrection? [for instance,

we see him use it when he breathes the Holy Spirit on the disciples].  It must be

something he had before the cross because he said his words were spirit and life.

So, where did it come from?

Jesus did not obtain a quickening spirit, He is the resurrection and the life, He is the quickening spirit, He is the Son of God.


In other words--What made Jesus spiritual and Adam not?


The above.

Molly, just like I see my life. I am born in a floundering ignorant state and through trials and tribulations and victories and defeats I become me. I am a created being and this means going from one state of being to another. I don't see Jesus as being created, to me, He is. In the beginning I just can't seem to 'defeat' Satan yet when I am mature I will defeat 'him' 'in Jesus'.

cp

Rom 1:4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

[sheila]

   Tony,

     re; man of lawlessness being revealed..or anti-Christ

    stop and think; for example

   would you beleive the religious spirit that sits as God in the Muslims..leading them to think that it is God and they are doing what God wants..could possibly be an anti-christ spirit

...and from there in all fairness,we who have the Holy spirit have dwelling in our flesh this lawlessness that  does not
allow us to be OBEDIANT UNTO CHRIST SPIRIT IN US IN ALL THINGS..why can't we 'go and sin no more' while we are in this flesh..why do we still sin? it is a mystery; does not this same spirit of lawlessness in our flesh hinder us in the spirit?

  Now, consider the parable when He returns,and in His presence
seperates the sheep and goats...to throw into the lake of fire
those who did not treat the brothers right..could this not be...


   then will be unveiled the lawless one[whom the Lord Jesus
  will dispatch with the Spirit of His mouth]

  when the Lord says these words Then He will say to those on his left...depart from me,you who are cursed..into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels

  Have any of us ever been deceived by a false Christ...

  I was...I thought Jehovahs' wittnesses was the true church
of God..was there lying signs..yes, I prayed three different times to God..to know where to go..and three different times they showed up on my door..in different towns...

  that was a little seed of faith in me..trying to find Him and led like a lamb to the slaughter..

  instead of a fish...this lawless one and anti-christ spirit has handed us serpents...that little seed of faith in God in mankind
wasn't treated very well..they didn't clothe us with grace
or feed us with mercy

   I truly beleive this above is the mystery revealed...

   the mystery of lawlessness and godliness revealed

  the spirit of anti-christ revealed.

                                      sHEILA

[bobf]

I say: Literal when most likely, figurative when not.

Tony, your rule of thumb is circular.

[Molly]

author=Molly link=topic=3960.msg50138#msg50138 date=1233698657]
Ok I'm going to ask my question again, because I'm still wrestling with this--

What is the difference between Jesus and Adam--as men?  Why is Jesus obedient

and Adam is not?  Again, Jesus uses scripture to fight satan which Adam does not have--

is that the difference?




And, how does one obtain a 'quickening spirit,' -- is that something Jesus had

before the cross?  Or did that only happen after the resurrection? [for instance,

we see him use it when he breathes the Holy Spirit on the disciples].  It must be

something he had before the cross because he said his words were spirit and life.

So, where did it come from?


In other words--What made Jesus spiritual and Adam not?

Wasnt HE born of the HOLY spirit, but tempted as all men. :bigGrin:

ohn 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,  full of grace and truth

So we have a man in flesh who is not sinning.

And, he tells us (who are also in flesh), Go and sin no more.

Therefore, it must be possible to be in flesh (alive in a flesh body) and not sin.

Right?  As far as being born of the Holy Spirit--this is open to us as well--



12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

--John 1

[Tony N]

   Tony,

     re; man of lawlessness being revealed..or anti-Christ

    stop and think; for example

   would you beleive the religious spirit that sits as God in the Muslims..leading them to think that it is God and they are doing what God wants..could possibly be an anti-christ spirit

...and from there in all fairness,we who have the Holy spirit have dwelling in our flesh this lawlessness that  does not
allow us to be OBEDIANT UNTO CHRIST SPIRIT IN US IN ALL THINGS..why can't we 'go and sin no more' while we are in this flesh..why do we still sin? it is a mystery; does not this same spirit of lawlessness in our flesh hinder us in the spirit?

  Now, consider the parable when He returns,and in His presence
seperates the sheep and goats...to throw into the lake of fire
those who did not treat the brothers right..could this not be...


   then will be unveiled the lawless one[whom the Lord Jesus
  will dispatch with the Spirit of His mouth]

  when the Lord says these words Then He will say to those on his left...depart from me,you who are cursed..into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels

  Have any of us ever been deceived by a false Christ...

  I was...I thought Jehovahs' wittnesses was the true church
of God..was there lying signs..yes, I prayed three different times to God..to know where to go..and three different times they showed up on my door..in different towns...

  that was a little seed of faith in me..trying to find Him and led like a lamb to the slaughter..

  instead of a fish...this lawless one and anti-christ spirit has handed us serpents...that little seed of faith in God in mankind
wasn't treated very well..they didn't clothe us with grace
or feed us with mercy

   I truly beleive this above is the mystery revealed...

   the mystery of lawlessness and godliness revealed

  the spirit of anti-christ revealed.

                                      sHEILA

Shiela, Paul says the reason why we can't do all the righteousness we want to is due to the flesh. He never said Satan is dwelling in us.

claypot,
I thought your last post to me was rather in poor taste. But I expect such a post from someone who actually believes Satan dwells in them.

[sheila]

   Well,

    I guess we will just have to agree that we disagree.

   

    .....it is the weakness of our flesh..and the corruption of it..that makes it hard to obey

      ..the spirit is willing,but the flesh is weak

  1Cor 1;25  For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's
  wisdome, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.

[claypot]

Hey Tony, you wrote...

claypot,
I thought your last post to me was rather in poor taste. But I expect such a post from someone who actually believes Satan dwells in them.

Satan is an adversary. Tony, do you have any adversarial thoughts within you? Adversarial to the Kingdom of God? Are all your thoughts pure?

This is what I am seeing God is communicating, that I have that within me that is adversarial to Him. The Good News He also communicates to me is that He has sent His Son into me to save me and not condemn me.

Is the above the extent of the response I can expect from you?

You seek a spiritual essence through physical means. You want to take the Lords words which He said are spirit and make them flesh as much as you deem possible. I have witnessed success in doing these things but it is not for me. God is intimate with the physical as it is a creation of His heart and mind and the physical does lead people to God who is spirit. This is obvious in your case it seems so I will not belittle your attempts. I have fallen into the sinful practice of trying to get you to believe as I do and this is my folly. Something still influences me to sin. I don't know a better way to describe it other than a satanic or adversarial essence within and without my very being.

This is why I am to blame and not some being with horns running around talking me into things. The devil makes a good scapegoat for people with your mindset but for me satan is part of my very being so only I am to blame. Yes, if I said I sin not I would be a liar.

Tony, do you sin at all? If you do, why do you think you sin?

cp

[Molly]

Satan is an adversary. Tony, do you have any adversarial thoughts within you? Adversarial to the Kingdom of God? Are all your thoughts pure?

What I don't like about this is it neutralizes evil (just some bad thoughts from my flesh) and it implies that I cannot be without satan being a part of me if he is inside of me.  A house divided cannot stand.   But, we have the mind of Christ.

I have seen evil..and it is not just some 'adversarial thoughts.'

[bobf]

Dear brother Bob,
Just a brief note:

Let's have another looky at Romans 5:12:

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" KJV

"Therefore, even as through one man sin entered into the world, and through sin death, and thus death passed through into all mankind, on which all sinned -" Concordant Literal

To say that death passes upon all men BECAUSE all sinned is to undo what Paul just stated.

He just stated that due to what Adam did, that sin entered the world, and through sin death.
So to day that death passed through into all men because all men sinned is to undo the fact that it is because of Adam's sin.

Hi Tony... thanks for your thoughts.

It only undoes your understanding of the verse, not mine.

Here is mine:
1. Adam sinned
2. So sin entered the world
3. Death also entered the world BY SIN (establishing the principle that sin ---> death)
4. Death then passed to all mankind
5. How?  Because just like Adam, all sinned.

I see no contradiction in any of those 5 items and translations that say "because all sinned"

No where does it sasy that death passed to all men NOT DUE to their sin.

And we don't get condemned because we as humans act condemningly.

• John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

<br>

• Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

<br>

• Mark 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

All mankind get condemnation due to what Adam did, not what we do.

Yes, all mankind gets condemnation due to what Adam did.  But where does it say the rest of what you wrote?

In 5:19, all mankind are made sinners due to what Adam did, not "because all sinned."

"Made sinners" does not mean "were caused to sin" any more than "that the offence might abound" means people were caused to sin by the law.

"for where no law is, there is no transgression" and "that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful" explain my understanding of "For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."  IOW there WAS sin in the world before the commandment, and God DID DEAL with sin ad sin (Sodom, Flood, etc.) but until a commandment is given, sin is not truly made known as sin.

The reason all mankind gets condemenation due to Adam is because "for the JUDGMENT was by one to condemnation."  Judgment of what?  Sin!

So then there are two causes of condemnation, not just one (Adam)
1. Sin
2. Judgment of sin<--- brought by Adam

Adam ushered in the ministry of condemnation & death (the TOKOGE).  He did not cause anyone to sin.

All sin because we are just like Adam was before he sinned.  Soulish.

[peacemaker]

author=Molly link=topic=3960.msg50138#msg50138 date=1233698657]
Ok I'm going to ask my question again, because I'm still wrestling with this--

What is the difference between Jesus and Adam--as men?  Why is Jesus obedient

and Adam is not?  Again, Jesus uses scripture to fight satan which Adam does not have--

is that the difference?




And, how does one obtain a 'quickening spirit,' -- is that something Jesus had

before the cross?  Or did that only happen after the resurrection? [for instance,

we see him use it when he breathes the Holy Spirit on the disciples].  It must be

something he had before the cross because he said his words were spirit and life.

So, where did it come from?


In other words--What made Jesus spiritual and Adam not?

Wasnt HE born of the HOLY spirit, but tempted as all men. :bigGrin:

ohn 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,  full of grace and truth

So we have a man in flesh who is not sinning.

And, he tells us (who are also in flesh), Go and sin no more.

Therefore, it must be possible to be in flesh (alive in a flesh body) and not sin.

Right?  As far as being born of the Holy Spirit--this is open to us as well--



12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

--John 1

Who continued to walk in the cool of the day (SPIRIT) with the Father? CHRIST!
And, who hid himself, as he literally walked away from the SPIRIT? ADAM!

Along came the tempter – the lust of the eyes (understanding, i.e. the mind?), lust of the flesh (heart, i.e. emotion?) and the pride of life (all the desires of fame and fortune, etc., i.e. will?). Thus, while the first Adam conceded to all that is in the world – the second Adam stood his ground against the natural disposition or temperament.

Jesus and Adam, both, were subjected to the human (fleshly) nature (s); giving, surrendering or relinquishing control to that of another.

Adam was ruled by a natural headship, his own!
Jesus followed the headship of His Father – "not my will, but yours be done."

Seems they were equally tempted; internally and externally on both surfaces.

"Having the heart of Christ, and a renewed mind, is Not being bound to the universal imperatives of man and his religion."

peacemaker

[Zeek]

Hey Tony, you wrote...

claypot,
I thought your last post to me was rather in poor taste. But I expect such a post from someone who actually believes Satan dwells in them.

Satan is an adversary. Tony, do you have any adversarial thoughts within you? Adversarial to the Kingdom of God? Are all your thoughts pure?

This is what I am seeing God is communicating, that I have that within me that is adversarial to Him. The Good News He also communicates to me is that He has sent His Son into me to save me and not condemn me.

Is the above the extent of the response I can expect from you?

You seek a spiritual essence through physical means. You want to take the Lords words which He said are spirit and make them flesh as much as you deem possible. I have witnessed success in doing these things but it is not for me. God is intimate with the physical as it is a creation of His heart and mind and the physical does lead people to God who is spirit. This is obvious in your case it seems so I will not belittle your attempts. I have fallen into the sinful practice of trying to get you to believe as I do and this is my folly. Something still influences me to sin. I don't know a better way to describe it other than a satanic or adversarial essence within and without my very being.

This is why I am to blame and not some being with horns running around talking me into things. The devil makes a good scapegoat for people with your mindset but for me satan is part of my very being so only I am to blame. Yes, if I said I sin not I would be a liar.

Tony, do you sin at all? If you do, why do you think you sin?

cp

cp, what do you think of these verses?

1Jn 3:9  Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


Rom 14:23  And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

1Jn 5:4  For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.


Joh 11:26  And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?


Joh 5:24  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

[bobf]

In other words--What made Jesus spiritual and Adam not?

I would say it was the Father, and it was before He was resurrected or crucified.

• John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

<br>

• John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself.

[reFORMer]

John 6:24-26...
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? (AV)

John 6: 26...
And everyone who is living and believing into Me, should by no means be dying into the eon.  Are you believing this? (CLV)

The proof that many who have the esteem of their fellowmen do not believe this is that they have to add modifying words to the text to explain its supposed true meaning.  They insert the word "spiritual," a word Jesus used often enough that He could've certainly used it here if that was His intent.  But, He didn't.  He did NOT say: "Who is living and believing in Me shall never 'spiritually' die."  He was instead announcing that the door into not dying was opened.  Through His own death, burial and resurrection He secured an, "...open door, which no one is able to lock." (Rv 3:8)  This is into partaking of the Divine nature.  Rather than some distant and dubious "last day" in the maze of a religious riddle, Jesus opened it up, not dying for the least of us in the here and now.  "Are you believing this?"


That this was a reality before the days of Jesus' flesh is attested to by numerous mentions in Scripture.  Look at this one about Melchizedek when his superiority to the dying sons of Levi for receiving tithes is being explained.  It says, "...one of whom it is attested that he is living." (Hb 7:8)  The writer(s) of Hebrews lived in the first Century, about two thousand years after Abrahams day.  The Greek is very clear.  So much so that some commentators point out it is an unusual construction and then don't tell you why.  They don't believe it.  It was a reliable attestation that Melchizedek was alive at the time of the writing of the N.T., so sure it was recorded thusly therein.

Paul said in various ways that his personal overcoming death was the one thing he was pursuing.  What God does is by faith.  We are in a time that is anywhere from within a couple of hundred years at most to even that we have already entered into the Millennium.  It is to be expected that there should be waves of power that are related to millions being resurrected.  There should be prodigies, precursors, who signal the approach of our great transition.  There should all the more be words, spirit and life words for ouf faith to accelerate our race against death, to reach the finish line before this last enemy can take us out.  The finishing work is faith in a finishing word.  The finishing is maturing, completing what the Author and Finisher of our faith began.

Look at the various parts of Scripture that have an acrostic form, the letters of the Hebrew alphabet sequentially begining a saying or a section.  This is not just the book of life, but the very letters can bring life.  The word is the seed body of the Spirit of life.  You can notice in your own and others the working of the cherebim to prevent access to the tree of life.  It is sometimes so impossible to just read the Scripture itself!  So many are repulsed, giving various reasons to accept their diversion from the path of life.  But O, to the overcomer..."To the conquering, to him will I be granting to be eating of the tree of life which is in the center of the paradise of God" (Rv 2:7)  Not something in death!  But access to those rising above death here!  Here is where the battle is and here is where the decisive victory has been displayed by Jesus Christ.  Here is from where we are to reign as Priests after the order of Melchizedek, from here into all the universe. (cf., Rm 4:13)  They need what man is becoming.

[Tony N]

Ok I'm going to ask my question again, because I'm still wrestling with this--

What is the difference between Jesus and Adam--as men?  Why is Jesus obedient
and Adam is not?  Again, Jesus uses scripture to fight satan which Adam does not have--
is that the difference?
And, how does one obtain a 'quickening spirit,' -- is that something Jesus had
before the cross?  Or did that only happen after the resurrection? [for instance,
we see him use it when he breathes the Holy Spirit on the disciples].  It must be
something he had before the cross because he said his words were spirit and life.
So, where did it come from?

In other words--What made Jesus spiritual and Adam not?

The difference it told us here:

1Co 2:14 Now the soulish man is not receiving those things which are of the spirit of God, for they are stupidity to him, and he is not able to know them, seeing that they are spiritually examined."

1Co 15:44 It is sown a soulish body; it is roused a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 If there is a soulish body, there is a spiritual also. Thus it is written also, The first man, Adam, "became a living soul: the last Adam a vivifying Spirit."
1Co 15:46 But not first the spiritual, but the soulish, thereupon the spiritual."
1Co 15:47 The first man was out of the earth, soilish; the second Man is the Lord out of heaven."
1Co 15:48 Such as the soilish one is, such are those also who are soilish, and such as the Celestial One, such are those also who are celestials."
1Co 15:49 And according as we wear the image of the soilish, we should be wearing the image also of the Celestial."


First came the soulish: Adam
Soulish, being the adjective of "soul" tells us that Adam's basic makeup was pertaining to the soul, the seat of sensations. He was a soulish person.

Thereupon the spiritual: Christ
Spiritual, being the adjective of "spirit" tells us that Christ's basic makeup was pertaining to the spirit, that invisible power of divinity. He was a spiritual person.

A soulish man cannot receive those things which are of the spirit of God and indeed cannot know them (1 Cor.2:14).

This is why Adam could not be obedient.
Another reason Adam could not be obedient because God created him flesh and that disposition of the flesh is death:

Rom 8:6 For the disposition of the flesh is death, yet the disposition of the spirit is life and peace,
Rom 8:7 because the disposition of the flesh is enmity to God, for it is not subject to the law of God, for neither is it able."
Rom 8:8 Now those who are in flesh are not able to please God.

But Christ was in spirit and was able to always please God, His Father. He always crucified the flesh.

And, how does one obtain a 'quickening spirit,'

The last Adam became a quickening spirit or vivifying spirit.

This is talking about when they came to walk on the earth in their first appearance.

When Adam was made he was made soulish.
When Christ was made He was made a quickening spirit.

This does not mean that when Christ walked the earth that He was invisible because they felt him, touched Him, crucified Him. You can't crucify a spirit.
He was made a quickening spirit because He has the complement of the deity dwelling bodily in Him.
Col 1:19 for in Him the entire complement delights to dwell,

Now that's what I call spiritual.
Now how do some of you hyper spiritualists make that even more spiritual above and beyond what it already is? It already is spiritual. You can't make something spiritual more spiritual.

[Tony N]

Hey Tony, you wrote...

claypot,
I thought your last post to me was rather in poor taste. But I expect such a post from someone who actually believes Satan dwells in them.

Satan is an adversary. Tony, do you have any adversarial thoughts within you? Adversarial to the Kingdom of God? Are all your thoughts pure?

This is what I am seeing God is communicating, that I have that within me that is adversarial to Him. The Good News He also communicates to me is that He has sent His Son into me to save me and not condemn me.

Is the above the extent of the response I can expect from you?

You seek a spiritual essence through physical means. You want to take the Lords words which He said are spirit and make them flesh as much as you deem possible. I have witnessed success in doing these things but it is not for me. God is intimate with the physical as it is a creation of His heart and mind and the physical does lead people to God who is spirit. This is obvious in your case it seems so I will not belittle your attempts. I have fallen into the sinful practice of trying to get you to believe as I do and this is my folly. Something still influences me to sin. I don't know a better way to describe it other than a satanic or adversarial essence within and without my very being.

This is why I am to blame and not some being with horns running around talking me into things. The devil makes a good scapegoat for people with your mindset but for me satan is part of my very being so only I am to blame. Yes, if I said I sin not I would be a liar.

Tony, do you sin at all? If you do, why do you think you sin?

cp

Of course I sin. I sinned once a few years ago but it wasn't my fault.  :laughing7:
cp, just because you at times are adversarial does not mean you have THE Adversary, Satan within you.

Christ said His words are spirit and are life. You can't make his words more spirit then what they already are. You can't make them more life than what they already are. They already are what they are.

I sin because of this:
Rom 7:23 yet I am observing a different law in my members, warring with the law of my mind, and leading me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members."

Gal 5:17 For the flesh is lusting against the spirit, yet the spirit against the flesh. Now these are opposing one another, lest you should be doing whatever you may want."

It is what it is.

claypot . . . I ask you this again. The antichrist's modus operandi will be:

2Th 2:9-10  whose presence is in accord with the operation of Satan, with all power and signs and false miracles"  (10)  and with every seduction of injustice among those who are perishing, because they do not receive the love of the truth for their salvation."

How have you been exhibiting ALL power, signs and false miracles?
It is not just enough to day that if you are adversarial that you have THE Adversary in you. You also have to have all power, signs and false miracles. You have to have these cp to be that antichrist.

[Taffy]

Ok I'm going to ask my question again, because I'm still wrestling with this--

What is the difference between Jesus and Adam--as men?  Why is Jesus obedient
and Adam is not?  Again, Jesus uses scripture to fight satan which Adam does not have--
is that the difference?
And, how does one obtain a 'quickening spirit,' -- is that something Jesus had
before the cross?  Or did that only happen after the resurrection? [for instance,
we see him use it when he breathes the Holy Spirit on the disciples].  It must be
something he had before the cross because he said his words were spirit and life.
So, where did it come from?

In other words--What made Jesus spiritual and Adam not?

The difference it told us here:

1Co 2:14 Now the soulish man is not receiving those things which are of the spirit of God, for they are stupidity to him, and he is not able to know them, seeing that they are spiritually examined."

1Co 15:44 It is sown a soulish body; it is roused a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 If there is a soulish body, there is a spiritual also. Thus it is written also, The first man, Adam, "became a living soul: the last Adam a vivifying Spirit."
1Co 15:46 But not first the spiritual, but the soulish, thereupon the spiritual."
1Co 15:47 The first man was out of the earth, soilish; the second Man is the Lord out of heaven."
1Co 15:48 Such as the soilish one is, such are those also who are soilish, and such as the Celestial One, such are those also who are celestials."
1Co 15:49 And according as we wear the image of the soilish, we should be wearing the image also of the Celestial."


First came the soulish: Adam
Soulish, being the adjective of "soul" tells us that Adam's basic makeup was pertaining to the soul, the seat of sensations. He was a soulish person.

Thereupon the spiritual: Christ
Spiritual, being the adjective of "spirit" tells us that Christ's basic makeup was pertaining to the spirit, that invisible power of divinity. He was a spiritual person.

A soulish man cannot receive those things which are of the spirit of God and indeed cannot know them (1 Cor.2:14).

This is why Adam could not be obedient.
Another reason Adam could not be obedient because God created him flesh and that disposition of the flesh is death:

Rom 8:6 For the disposition of the flesh is death, yet the disposition of the spirit is life and peace,
Rom 8:7 because the disposition of the flesh is enmity to God, for it is not subject to the law of God, for neither is it able."
Rom 8:8 Now those who are in flesh are not able to please God.

But Christ was in spirit and was able to always please God, His Father. He always crucified the flesh.

And, how does one obtain a 'quickening spirit,'

The last Adam became a quickening spirit or vivifying spirit.

This is talking about when they came to walk on the earth in their first appearance.

When Adam was made he was made soulish.
When Christ was made He was made a quickening spirit.

This does not mean that when Christ walked the earth that He was invisible because they felt him, touched Him, crucified Him. You can't crucify a spirit.
He was made a quickening spirit because He has the complement of the deity dwelling bodily in Him.
Col 1:19 for in Him the entire complement delights to dwell,

Now that's what I call spiritual.
Now how do some of you hyper spiritualists make that even more spiritual above and beyond what it already is? It already is spiritual. You can't make something spiritual more spiritual.

Maybe T, youve been hanging around this thread to long Bud, and such things be WASHING over ya some :HeartThrob:

If I were you bro..Id consider your comments on HYper spiritual..they be your words..Not scripture..., would it ,therefore be fair to consider you a HYPER literalist not unlike  Like Nicodemus..are still awaiting to be Born again and Climb back in ya Mums womb.... :icon_king:

yous funny bro..and as Bob mentioned your rule of thumb be circular :thumbsup:

[WhiteWings]

Of course I sin. I sinned once a few years ago but it wasn't my fault.  :laughing7:

A bit like some people that are only drunk once a week; from Friday to Friday? :beerburp:

[Tony N]

Maybe T, youve been hanging around this thread to long Bud, and such things be WASHING over ya some :HeartThrob:

If I were you bro..Id consider your comments on HYper spiritual..they be your words..Not scripture..., would it ,therefore be fair to consider you a HYPER literalist not unlike  Like Nicodemus..are still awaiting to be Born again and Climb back in ya Mums womb.... :icon_king:

yous funny bro..and as Bob mentioned your rule of thumb be circular :thumbsup:

Hey Taffy, what up dawg?
I agree that Nicodemus misunderstood what Jesus was talking about. Even Jesus said he, being a teacher should know these things. The actual literal application of what Jesus was talking about was Israel, as a nation, being begotten anew in a day. When Jesus said "you" as in "you must be begotten anew" the "you" is plural. He was not telling Nicodemus that he, personally, had to be begotten anew.

Jesus was telling ole Nic about the terrestrial or earthly:
Joh 3:12 If I told you of the terrestrial and you are not believing, how shall you be believing if I should be telling you of the celestial?
The terrestrial was concerning Israel being begotten anew. Since Nic didn't get that, how could Jesus tell him of other things pertaining to the heavens or celestial?

Dear Taffy,
is it circular reasoning that if the antichrist or man of lawlessness in the temple is showing he is God by all power, signs and false miracles that for one to have this antichrist in their bodies as you folks claim that you should also have these powers, signs and false miracles? Of course not. What it does is beg the question: where are the signs, false miracles and all power if he is in you?

[claypot]

Satan is an adversary. Tony, do you have any adversarial thoughts within you? Adversarial to the Kingdom of God? Are all your thoughts pure?

What I don't like about this is it neutralizes evil (just some bad thoughts from my flesh) and it implies that I cannot be without satan being a part of me if he is inside of me.  A house divided cannot stand.   But, we have the mind of Christ.

I have seen evil..and it is not just some 'adversarial thoughts.'

Molly, you are greatly trivializing adversarial thoughts. From these come horrible actions.

For as he thinks in his heart, so is he prov 23.7

An adversarial mind in no way neutralizes evil, it is its very source, it perpetuates it.

Satan is not some being running around with a pitch fork. Wisdom is personified in Scripture but wisdom is within.

Do you see this?

cp

[claypot]

Hey Tony, you wrote...

claypot,
I thought your last post to me was rather in poor taste. But I expect such a post from someone who actually believes Satan dwells in them.

Satan is an adversary. Tony, do you have any adversarial thoughts within you? Adversarial to the Kingdom of God? Are all your thoughts pure?

This is what I am seeing God is communicating, that I have that within me that is adversarial to Him. The Good News He also communicates to me is that He has sent His Son into me to save me and not condemn me.

Is the above the extent of the response I can expect from you?

You seek a spiritual essence through physical means. You want to take the Lords words which He said are spirit and make them flesh as much as you deem possible. I have witnessed success in doing these things but it is not for me. God is intimate with the physical as it is a creation of His heart and mind and the physical does lead people to God who is spirit. This is obvious in your case it seems so I will not belittle your attempts. I have fallen into the sinful practice of trying to get you to believe as I do and this is my folly. Something still influences me to sin. I don't know a better way to describe it other than a satanic or adversarial essence within and without my very being.

This is why I am to blame and not some being with horns running around talking me into things. The devil makes a good scapegoat for people with your mindset but for me satan is part of my very being so only I am to blame. Yes, if I said I sin not I would be a liar.

Tony, do you sin at all? If you do, why do you think you sin?

cp

Of course I sin. I sinned once a few years ago but it wasn't my fault.  :laughing7:
cp, just because you at times are adversarial does not mean you have THE Adversary, Satan within you.

Christ said His words are spirit and are life. You can't make his words more spirit then what they already are. You can't make them more life than what they already are. They already are what they are.

I sin because of this:
Rom 7:23 yet I am observing a different law in my members, warring with the law of my mind, and leading me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members."

Gal 5:17 For the flesh is lusting against the spirit, yet the spirit against the flesh. Now these are opposing one another, lest you should be doing whatever you may want."

It is what it is.

claypot . . . I ask you this again. The antichrist's modus operandi will be:

2Th 2:9-10  whose presence is in accord with the operation of Satan, with all power and signs and false miracles"  (10)  and with every seduction of injustice among those who are perishing, because they do not receive the love of the truth for their salvation."

How have you been exhibiting ALL power, signs and false miracles?
It is not just enough to day that if you are adversarial that you have THE Adversary in you. You also have to have all power, signs and false miracles. You have to have these cp to be that antichrist.

Good to hear you admit that you sin and that it is because of something adversarial in your being that causes it. You are implying you sin because your spirit is at war with your flesh. I see this in you too, very clearly. You are resisting the spirit IMO and sin is resulting. You are admitting that you are led into capitivity, you sin.

Tony, because I say I have an adversarial spirit I am not claiming to be THE ANTI CHRIST any more than because I have the spirit of God within I am claiming to be JESUS CHRIST.


satan,  saw-tawn'; from Hebrew 07853 (satan); an opponent; especially (with the article prefixed) Satan, the arch-enemy of good :-
adversary, Satan, withstand.

Tony, do you claim to be Jesus Christ?

cp

[Tony N]

Satan is not some being running around with a pitch fork. Wisdom is personified in Scripture but wisdom is within.
cp

Another straw man.
I don't think Molly believes Satan is running around with a pitch fork. But he certainly us running around.
He presented himself before God among the sons of God in the days of Job.

1Pe 5:8 Be sober! Watch! For your plaintiff, the Adversary, is walking about as a roaring lion, seeking someone to swallow up;"

[Tony N]

Good to hear you admit that you sin and that it is because of something adversarial in your being that causes it. You are implying you sin because your spirit is at war with your flesh. I see this in you too, very clearly. You are resisting the spirit IMO and sin is resulting. You are admitting that you are led into capitivity, you sin.

Tony, because I say I have an adversarial spirit I am not claiming to be THE ANTI CHRIST any more than because I have the spirit of God within I am claiming to be JESUS CHRIST.


satan,  saw-tawn'; from Hebrew 07853 (satan); an opponent; especially (with the article prefixed) Satan, the arch-enemy of good :-
adversary, Satan, withstand.

Tony, do you claim to be Jesus Christ?

cp

O.K. then, just come clean cp. 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is not to be interpreted as the antichrist being inside of you and that therefore it has not come to pass yet.

Jesus and I are one.

[claypot]

cp, what do you think of these verses?

1Jn 3:9  Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


Rom 14:23  And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

1Jn 5:4  For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.


Joh 11:26  And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?


Joh 5:24  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Hey Zeek, whatever in me that is born of God does not sin. It is a holy thing within my essence, my temple so to speak. I live and believe in God and in His Son who is within causing me to be resurrected to a new life.

Again Zeek, IMO, this is a process. Creation implies a process. God always was, is and always will be. I am being made, am made, and will be made in the image of God.

Is this answering your question. You have asked it often and it is a good question but are you seeing what I am trying so feebly to communicate to you?

cp

[Taffy]

Good Mornin Bro :icon_flower:

co-operate but equally singular, have no problem with that Bud... :HeartThrob:

Alas such folk of their day just understood the shadow, the Form of Truth ( Rom2-19-21) ,

Flesh is Flesh, spirit is spirit ...the RE-vealing of the shadow( by that which was written) comes via the Unveiling through the Spirit.,...

wow Up there me bud. :icon_flower:

My Flesh is Dead , and for sure dont believe that Satan dwells in me...That which was adverse exists No longer , for the MOUTH( New Tongue) speaks TRUTH of the ONE WHO IS TRUTH...proclaiming the One who is the KINGDOM....

Tis these folks who spoke with adversity, deciet and Guile ,who proclaim to be God  sitting in the Temple...., Menstealers , stealing the hearts of MEN who belong to Christ

such Folk are dead folk..alas they dont realise it.

Mat 23:27 "How terrible it will be for you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs--beautiful on the outside but filled on the inside with dead people's bones and all sorts of impurity. 

Rom 3:13 Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips:

Psa 5:9 For [there is] no faithfulness in their mouth; their*** inward part [is] very wickedness**; their throat [is] an open sepulchre; they flatter with their tongue.


Psa 32:2 Blessed [is] the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit [there is] no guile.



Psa 34:13 Keep thy tongue from evil, and thy lips from speaking guile.


No Satan here Im afraid...Not In this Temple. :icon_flower:

[Taffy]

Satan is not some being running around with a pitch fork. Wisdom is personified in Scripture but wisdom is within.
cp

Another straw man.
I don't think Molly believes Satan is running around with a pitch fork. But he certainly us running around.
He presented himself before God among the sons of God in the days of Job.

1Pe 5:8 Be sober! Watch! For your plaintiff, the Adversary, is walking about as a roaring lion, seeking someone to swallow up;"

Kinda Flesh lives off flesh until one is consumed and then their spirit will be saved

1Cr 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Gal 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.