Natural and Spiritual

[sheila]

    It doesn't matter what language or tongue you use,
    as long as you speak truth in love.

     the dragon held authority over every tongue..when it spoke lies and accusations in any language.

    Rev 14;6  and I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven
   having the everlasting gospel  to preach to them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation and kindred and TONGUE
and people

    Love has a language of it's own...and it's NOT making a brother an offender over a word


   even the catholics have let off speaking Latin only


     You can speak truth in the tongue of the angels..
.

     but it won't be of profit if no one understands..[.it must be

  translated  into  their own language]

    except if it be for buiding up the one speaking..


   and if that be the case...and no one else benefit in


   the congregation..that one is instructed to not speak


   I have my preference of words ,too....as I imagine


  we all do. But you don't make it a source of contention,

or censoring of your brothers in faith.I will not 'diss' you

  if you prefer soulish or Adonai or any other word.

  That is NOT what our Father wants or expects from us


  weren't the disciples unlettered? Now, can our brothers that

  have knowledge of these languages benefit us in our

  understanding? Certainly! But the WORD OF GOD COME

  IN FLESH IS JESUS CHRIST, not aramaic,greek,latin or

  any other  tongue


  Zephaniah 3;9  For then will I turn to the people to

  a PURE LANGUAGE, THAT THEY MAY ALL CALL UPON

THE LORD,TO SERVE HIM WITH ONE CONSENT


   Happy are the pure in heart

 

[sheila]

  Post scrip

  it was the confusing of tongues...and the dissension over it

  that gave Babylon[babbel] it's name..


     

[Zeek]

One can be "spiritual" minded and not see all as "inward".  ie: Paul had the "mind of Christ", but looked at two sets of people;

those stuck in "natural" mindset; to undergo soon coming destruction


and


those given ears/eyes to see (faith) "spiritual" mindset; who would be saved from the soon coming destruction. 



Those who look at "natural" events unfolding; are not necessarily seeing with "natural/soulish" eyes. 



any thots?

[Molly]

So, Adam couldn't quicken Eve, but Jesus could?   That's why Adam stands mute while the serpent tempts Eve?

IMO, Adam and Eve are the Spirits way of describing a person. Every single person is 'Adam and Eve'. So to answer your question, No, Adam cannot quicken Eve. A person cannot save himself. Only the Life of God can quicken a person and that is why Jesus is sent into people john 3.16.

cp

well, just to keep the comparison true, Adam is to Eve as Jesus is to the ekklesia...yes?

And, Jesus and the ekklesia are to be one body also....yes?


So one question for me has always been ...why did Adam stand mute while satan was tempting Eve?

Later, we will see that Jesus has plenty to say to satan, and it is all scripture--the word of God.


So,  since Jesus was fully man [as well as God], was he a quickening spirit as a man?

And, if he was, since Adam also was given the breath of God [and made a son], was the salient difference between Jesus and Adam then (speaking from the point of view of fully man) the word of God, that is, scripture?

In other words, Adam did not have the scripture, so he is not able to be a 'quickening' spirit?

I hope that question made sense.

[Taffy]

Re: Natural and Spiritual
« Reply #1385 on: Today at 11:30:17 AM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: sheila on Today at 12:14:26 AM
   

      Natural= by nature

     soulical= of or pertaining to the soul,esp considered as

     the seat of man's moral and emotional NATURE

      Nature Nature Nature..natural

    auth KJV natural  NIV natural

   definitions   Websters new international dictionary of the

   ENGLISH LANGUAGE  Second edition, Unabridged

      I don't like the word soulish I prefer the expression

    Natural....and that is what I will use

   If anyone has trouble with understanding what I mean

   they can refer to the  terminology above

    The title of this topic is  Natural and Spiritual I don't see
  how my using that 'term' would need to be explained,Tony

                                        Thank you


Dear Sheila, the topic title Natural and Spiritual was chosen because everyone improperly uses that so I wanted to bring attention to it.

Shiela, I know deep in your heart you want to be closer to what God has said. Right?
So why not use a translation which is closer to what God has said rather than a "version" such as the King James "version" which is just a redone revision of other bibles of their day?

"Truly (good Christian Reader) we never thought from the beginning, that we should need to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one,...but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principal good one, not justly to be excepted against, that hath been our endeavor."

Sheila, if God used the word "soulish" don't you really think we should believe Him and not use the word "natural"? A person who is in accord with nature is good. A person who goes against nature is bad.
So a natural person in the verse below would receive those things which are of the spirit of God but the soulish man is not.

1Co 2:14 Now the soulish man is not receiving those things which are of the spirit of God, for they are stupidity to him, and he is not able to know them, seeing that they are spiritually examined."

Adam was not natural but soulish. He was not receiving that which was of the spirit of God and was not able to know them. So he got kicked out of the garden for disobeying God.

(1Co 2:14)  Now the soulish man is not receiving those things which are of the spirit of God, for they are stupidity to him, and he is not able to know them, seeing that they are spiritually examined."

(1Co 15:44)  It is sown a soulish body; it is roused a spiritual body.

(1Co 15:45)  If there is a soulish body, there is a spiritual also. Thus it is written also, The first man, Adam, "became a living soul: the last Adam a vivifying Spirit."

(1Co 15:46)  But not first the spiritual, but the soulish, thereupon the spiritual."

(Jas 3:15)  This is not the wisdom coming down from above, but terrestrial, soulish, demoniacal. "

(Jud 1:19)  These are those who isolate themselves, soulish, not having the spirit."

Just where in the Book of Tony do I find your reasoning to all this?

The carnal Man( MIND) that is The soulISH \sensual man or the Natrual Man..take ya Pick...IS ENMITYand those who are carnally minded are DEAD for to Be carnally Minded ,that is the natural, soulish,sensual man is DEATH.

SO declare the srCiptures...

Nothing good dwell in the soulish man....for they are dead ....o as the the scriptures aloso declare the FLESH profits nothing..cos its dead....capish.....

just what good is there that dwells in death Bud.

Tis the reason we need a renewing of the Face of the earth( man) as wrote yesterday....Hi sbreath( Holy spirit dwelling in one wqith ours...for we are now in HIM and Him in us..a NEW MAN......

man Tony..im sooo thankkful to be out of the churches of men.

Blessings
g

[sheila]

  Personally, I think I'm going to go with the term

      'corruptible' lol!

[Taffy]

  Personally, I think I'm going to go with the term

      'corruptible' lol!

I kinda prefer the*incorruptible*  :icon_flower:

Corruptible V incorruptible...



how does that one sound Tony :icon_flower:

Naked v Clothed
Born dead v Made ALIVE
Those without V those with
Deaf\Blind v those who see and Hear.
Lame V walk
Crooked V upright
Tree of K&E v Tree of Life.
law V grace and Truth
Those beneath V those above
wisdom Beneath V wisdom above
Goliath V David
cankered Gold V gold
lies V truth
woman v Mother( of us all)
:icon_flower:

[claypot]

  Personally, I think I'm going to go with the term

      'corruptible' lol!

Mortal is a good one.

Molly, you wrote...

well, just to keep the comparison true, Adam is to Eve as Jesus is to the ekklesia...yes?

And, Jesus and the ekklesia are to be one body also....yes?


So one question for me has always been ...why did Adam stand mute while satan was tempting Eve?

Later, we will see that Jesus has plenty to say to satan, and it is all scripture--the word of God.


So,  since Jesus was fully man [as well as God], was he a quickening spirit as a man?

And, if he was, since Adam also was given the breath of God [and made a son], was the salient difference between Jesus and Adam then (speaking from the point of view of fully man) the word of God, that is, scripture?

In other words, Adam did not have the scripture, so he is not able to be a 'quickening' spirit?

IMO, Adam had Scripture in his heart. Adam and God 'talked'.

I like how you put it, that Adam is to Eve like Jesus is to the ekklesia.

Why did Adam stand mute............

I think Satan was the stronger of the 'two'. In Job God let Satan do certain things to Job which Job could do nothing about. God did this for His own good reasons. The mind of man can be a very formidable enemy as well as a strong ally.

First the natural, the weaker man, then the spiritual, the much stronger man.

We are being made, Molly.

cp

[Nathan]

I believe the answer to your question Molly, lies in the act itself.  Adam "recieved" the fruit from Eve.  The reason he was quiet was because he let Eve walk in the authority originally given to him.  He was to subdue his earth/flesh/mind/Eve but he didn't, instead of spirit feeding the mind, he let the mind feed the spirit.

When you combine displaced authority with a decieved nature, you will result in a fall every time.

[Taffy]

mortal v Immortal.... :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

is Mortal the Natural man who is the \soulish Sensual man ,also the carnal man who can be known as the Natural man...? known as a CLAY POT :laughing7:

[Tony N]

Dear Taffy,
It is not in the Book of Tony but the Sacred Scriptures.

Also, "carnal mind" in not in the Scriptures. . .

Rom 8:7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. KJV

Rom 8:7 because the disposition of the flesh is enmity to God, for it is not subject to the law of God, for neither is it able." CLNT

"carnal" nor "mind" is in the Greek text of Romans 8:7.

Also, Taffy, it is not "soulish" nor "carnal man" nor "natural man" that is at enmity to God but "the flesh is enmity to God."
Believest thou God or thine own understanding, knave?  :laughing7:

P.S. you missed one:

Soulish vs. Spiritual

[Taffy]

Dear Taffy,
It is not in the Book of Tony but the Sacred Scriptures.

Also, "carnal mind" in not in the Scriptures. . .

Rom 8:7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. KJV

Rom 8:7 because the disposition of the flesh is enmity to God, for it is not subject to the law of God, for neither is it able." CLNT

"carnal" nor "mind" is in the Greek text of Romans 8:7.

Also, Taffy, it is not "soulish" nor "carnal man" nor "natural man" that is at enmity to God but "the flesh is enmity to God."
Believest thou God or thine own understanding, knave?  :laughing7:

Gee Bro..what can one say...Ones NATURE....or that which COMES naturally ( by way of habit):icon_flower: tis the flesh of man , his soulish\sensual being....

Love ya man...ya consistent if nothing else bro...Funny too :icon_flower:

:HeartThrob:



..

[Nathan]

Dear Taffy,
It is not in the Book of Tony but the Sacred Scriptures.

Also, "carnal mind" in not in the Scriptures. . .

Rom 8:7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. KJV

Rom 8:7 because the disposition of the flesh is enmity to God, for it is not subject to the law of God, for neither is it able." CLNT

"carnal" nor "mind" is in the Greek text of Romans 8:7.

Also, Taffy, it is not "soulish" nor "carnal man" nor "natural man" that is at enmity to God but "the flesh is enmity to God."
Believest thou God or thine own understanding, knave?  :laughing7:

And for the rest of us, when you come into the realization of the spiritual truth that lies beneath this concrete surface of the literal words being argued over . . . it is the natural reasoning of man that does not have the capacity to comprehend the spiritual things of God, unless, God's grace manifests "in" the heart of man and God chooses to "reveal" the hidden truth . .the invisible things of his nature, to our PHYSICAL minds.  Tony excluded here of course because he adamantly chooses to hash out the physical and proclaim what can already be physically seen rather than letting God lead over into the spiritual where the ministry of FAITH is predominant and we speak out the unseen things as though they are seen.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Also, Taffy, it is not "soulish" nor "carnal man" nor "natural man" that is at enmity to God but "the flesh is enmity to God."

Jesus was in the flesh and he was not emnity to God.

[Taffy]

Soulish vs. Spiritual

No T..didnt miss it...RE- named it and listed others according to the scriptures , which in Truth says the same thing Bro.... :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

[Taffy]

Also, Taffy, it is not "soulish" nor "carnal man" nor "natural man" that is at enmity to God but "the flesh is enmity to God."

Jesus was in the flesh and he was not emnity to God.

Just as well HE OVERCOME for all men P..or else we would be in trouble and still in our graves...

:icon_flower:

[Zeek]

 
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 


Was Jesus ever "in the flesh"?

[Taffy]

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 


Was Jesus ever "in the flesh"?

Hi Bro..
I fear you may get this verse in reply..I was discussing thistopic a few eeks back privately...

John 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth

[Zeek]

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 


Was Jesus ever "in the flesh"?

Hi Bro..
I fear you may get this verse in reply..I was discussing thistopic a few eeks back privately...

John 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth

yeah, born under law; but not the mindset of the law



Jhn 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 

[Zeek]

just got your PM T, i'll check it out. 

[Tony N]

Dear Taffy,
It is not in the Book of Tony but the Sacred Scriptures.

Also, "carnal mind" in not in the Scriptures. . .

Rom 8:7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. KJV

Rom 8:7 because the disposition of the flesh is enmity to God, for it is not subject to the law of God, for neither is it able." CLNT

"carnal" nor "mind" is in the Greek text of Romans 8:7.

Also, Taffy, it is not "soulish" nor "carnal man" nor "natural man" that is at enmity to God but "the flesh is enmity to God."
Believest thou God or thine own understanding, knave?  :laughing7:

And for the rest of us, when you come into the realization of the spiritual truth that lies beneath this concrete surface of the literal words being argued over . . . it is the natural reasoning of man that does not have the capacity to comprehend the spiritual things of God, unless, God's grace manifests "in" the heart of man and God chooses to "reveal" the hidden truth . .the invisible things of his nature, to our PHYSICAL minds.  Tony excluded here of course because he adamantly chooses to hash out the physical and proclaim what can already be physically seen rather than letting God lead over into the spiritual where the ministry of FAITH is predominant and we speak out the unseen things as though they are seen.

Dear Nathan,

You wrote:

the spiritual truth that lies beneath this concrete surface of the literal words being argued over

The words are not a concrete surfact as if they are not spirit themselves. They are spirit and spiritual:

John 6:63 The Spirit is that which is vivifying. The flesh is not benefiting anything. The words which I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

1Co 2:13 which we are speaking also, not with words taught by human wisdom,
but with those taught by the spirit, matching spiritual blessings with spiritual words."

We can only know what is spiritual by following closely with the properly translated words in the Bible.
If they are improperly translated then we won't know what the "spiritual blessings" are because the un-spiritual words of poor translations hide the spiritual blessings.

If you don't receive the true words Jesus spoke then you do not receive the spiritual for His words are spirit and life. His words are already spiritual as are Paul's. So there is no need to spiritualize the spiritual.

[rosered]

 
 :icon_flower: Hi , the literal mind  cannot  fathom the thoughts of the spiritual mindset , its like saying we are washing in the blood of Jesus , if  you take this so literal and carnal ,  naturally , you would think we have to literally bathe  in BLOOD  We know this a  spiritual perception [eye] of knowing /understanding what the Holy Spirit is saying .. and hearing what the Spirit is saying  , healed ears  by the Lord  , new ears if you will ..
 Hi Shelia  sis ,  good  thread and posts being made ...


  here is a great  set of verses showing Jesus Christ in the Flesh  



So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.


Hbr 5:6 As he saith also in another [place], Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Hbr 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;


Hbr 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Hbr 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Hbr 5:10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.


Hbr 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

 :HeartThrob:

[Nathan]

Oh really Tony?  and what verse did you get that from?  Because most of your posts are emphasizing literal words while yet you're trying to say you are proclaiming life.  Life is not in a Greek or Hebrew dictionary.  You make it sound  like if only we all had the original text, then everyone would know the truth . . .

Is that what you're trying to say?

[Taffy]

 :icon_flower: Hi , the literal mind  cannot  fathom the thoughts of the spiritual mindset , its like saying we are washing in the blood of Jesus , if  you take this so literal and carnal ,  naturally , you would think we have to literally bathe  in BLOOD  We know this a  spiritual perception [eye] of knowing /understanding what the Holy Spirit is saying .. and hearing what the Spirit is saying  , healed ears  by the Lord  , new ears if you will ..
 Hi Shelia  sis ,  good  thread and posts being made ...


  here is a great  set of verses showing Jesus Christ in the Flesh  



So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.


Hbr 5:6 As he saith also in another [place], Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Hbr 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;


Hbr 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Hbr 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Hbr 5:10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.


Hbr 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

 :HeartThrob:

Amen  sis:icon_flower:

Jhn 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 

Nice flower    :icon_flower:
:HeartThrob:

[rosered]

 :icon_flower: Hi , the literal mind  cannot  fathom the thoughts of the spiritual mindset , its like saying we are washing in the blood of Jesus , if  you take this so literal and carnal ,  naturally , you would think we have to literally bathe  in BLOOD  We know this a  spiritual perception [eye] of knowing /understanding what the Holy Spirit is saying .. and hearing what the Spirit is saying  , healed ears  by the Lord  , new ears if you will ..
 Hi Shelia  sis ,  good  thread and posts being made ...


  here is a great  set of verses showing Jesus Christ in the Flesh  



So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.


Hbr 5:6 As he saith also in another [place], Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Hbr 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;


Hbr 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Hbr 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Hbr 5:10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.


Hbr 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

 :HeartThrob:

 here in Esau we see the parallel and the literal flesh of Esau ''hairy ''garment  Esau was also called Edom ("red"), 25:25  And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.
two nations waring ...in the womb /mind ..
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.  

Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble [you], and thereby many be defiled;


Hbr 12:16 Lest there [be] any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
Hbr 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

  same tears ?  they are similar  yet differnt results .


Hbr 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,


Hbr 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which [voice] they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:


Hbr 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
:HeartThrob:

Hbr 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, [that] Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)


Hbr 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,


Hbr 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,


Hbr 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.