How prophecy was sealed

[Molly]

Eusebius (325)
"But the people of the church in Jerusalem had been commanded by a revelation, vouchsafed to approved men there before the war, to leave the city and to dwell in a certain town of Perea called Pella. " (History of the Church 3:5:3)

"The whole body, however, of the church at Jerusalem, having been commanded by a divine revelation, given to men of approved piety there before the war, removed from the city, and dwelt at a certain town beyond the Jordan, called Pella. Here those that believed in Christ, having removed from Jerusalem, as if holy men had entirely abandoned the royal city itself, and the whole land of Judea; the divine justice, for their crimes against Christ and his apostles finally overtook them, totally destroying the whole generation of these evildoers form the earth. (Eusebius, 3:5.)

"Their sect began after the capture of Jerusalem. For when all those who believed in Christ settled at that time for the most part in Peraea, in a city called Pella belonging to the Decapolis mentioned in the gospel, which is next to Batanaea and the land of Bashan, then they moved there and stayed.." (Panarion 30:2:7)

"For when the city was about to be captured and sacked by the Romans, all the disciples were warned beforehand by an angel to remove from the city, doomed as it was to utter destruction. On migrating from it they settled at Pella, the town already indicated, across the Jordan. It is said to belong to Decapolis " (On Weights and Measures 15)

http://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/p/pella-flight.html

[WhiteWings]

"Hence we depart"
I always assumed "we" was Father and some angels.

They went to a place named Pella in Syria.

But reading your quote "we" just as well could be small exodus.
Do you have an exact (as possible) date of when people left to pella.

At Pentecost perhaps....

But the occasion of this multitude being assembled for holy baptism was also much more sublime than the second occasion, which Josephus relates: how that on the day of Pentecost a quaking and panic took hold first of the priests and then of the whole congregation. Then also on a sudden a voice was heard from the very depths of the temple, saying these words: We depart hence, we depart.

[WhiteWings]

Found it. It was on Pentecost 66 AD

[Molly]

"Hence we depart"
I always assumed "we" was Father and some angels.

They went to a place named Pella in Syria.

But reading your quote "we" just as well could be small exodus.
Do you have an exact (as possible) date of when people left to pella.

At Pentecost perhaps....

But the occasion of this multitude being assembled for holy baptism was also much more sublime than the second occasion, which Josephus relates: how that on the day of Pentecost a quaking and panic took hold first of the priests and then of the whole congregation. Then also on a sudden a voice was heard from the very depths of the temple, saying these words: We depart hence, we depart.

From that link given above:



The conditions described by Josephus suggest a gradual migration starting in CE 64. In any case, some suggest the flight of the last remaining members of the Jerusalem congregation may have been on the Feast of Pentecost in CE 69. The details as recorded by Flavius Josephus were:

Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost as the priests were going by night into the inner court of the temple...they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking and heard a sound as of a multitude saying, 'Let us remove hence.' (Josephus Wars bk. VI, ch. v, sec. 3, Whiston 1957:825.)

[Doug]

Jesus included himself in that generation, and he remains alive, since he rose from the grave. His generation is unique; it is to last forever.

If Jesus included Himself in that generation He was the first one to die of that generation. The resurrected  Jesus is another generation.

That seems a bit like reincarnation to me. In that doctrine the soul or spirit, after the death of the body, comes back to life in a newborn body. I.e, it is another generation.

In the case of Jesus, we have the fact of the empty tomb. What became of the body?

Luke 24:1-3
Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.

If the resurrected Jesus was another generation, why would his body need to be raised?

Luke shows that it was indeed the same Jesus that died, who was raised up.

Luke 24:6-7
He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,
Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

According to Luke, Jesus demonstrated to the disciples that he was the same Jesus who they knew, as he bore the marks of the crucifixion in his hands and feet.

Luke 24:39-40
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

IMO, to say that "the resurrected Jesus is another generation" misses the significance of his saying, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." [John 2:19] He did not say, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise up a different one."

So that idea is quickly slain. "The word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword." [Hebrews 4:12]

Preterism is founded upon a mistaken interpretation of the saying of Jesus, that "This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." Of course not all was fulfilled in the first century. Jesus remains alive, and is part of that generation of which he spoke. His generation has not passed away.

Doug

[Molly]

Jesus remains alive, and is part of that generation of which he spoke. His generation has not passed away.

22But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant,...

--Heb 12

[CHB]

Preterism is founded upon a mistaken interpretation of the saying of Jesus, that "This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." Of course not all was fulfilled in the first century. Jesus remains alive, and is part of that generation of which he spoke. His generation has not passed away.

Hi Doug,

Since Jesus is eternal, does this mean that the generation in which Jesus lived will never pass away? If this is true then, nothing in that generation will ever be fulfilled.

CHB

[Doug]

Preterism is founded upon a mistaken interpretation of the saying of Jesus, that "This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." Of course not all was fulfilled in the first century. Jesus remains alive, and is part of that generation of which he spoke. His generation has not passed away.

Hi Doug,

Since Jesus is eternal, does this mean that the generation in which Jesus lived will never pass away?

Yes.

If this is true then, nothing in that generation will ever be fulfilled.

CHB

You seem to have "shot yourself in the foot" here  :laughing7:

Doug

[Doug]

Jesus remains alive, and is part of that generation of which he spoke. His generation has not passed away.

22But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant,...

--Heb 12

Luke 21:20-28
And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

These days of vengeance were not the events of the first century, because not all things were fulfilled in the first century. Therefore, the above scripture must refer to some other time frame, and perhaps events of a different kind, and a different nature than the conflict at the earthly Jerusalem in 70 AD. Perhaps it does not refer to the earthly Jerusalem or the earthly Judea at all. Today, the heavenly Jerusalem is compassed on every side, by armies who seek to entice Christians to accept their teachings. There are tens of thousands of denominations and sects, and various schools of interpretation of prophecy, eschatological views such as, Classical dispensationalism, Revised dispensationalism, Progressive dispensationalism, Mid-Acts dispensationalism, Ultra-dispensationalism, Partial preterism, Hyper-preterism, Transmillennialism, Historicism, and Idealism, etc.

Revelation 20 tells us that when Satan is loosed from his prison, he "shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

When that happens, what side will we be on? Among those who "compass the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city"? Or will we be in the city that is attacked? The heavenly Jerusalem is "a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God." [Hebrews 11:10]

Doug

[marie glen]

I'm not sure about a gap, but I do know that when speaking of the advents of Jesus, they are often blended or continue from one to the other without there seeming to be any 'gap', yet of course there is. (Although I know there are some folks who do not believe Jesus ever returns physically to earth to restore paradise). I've also noticed that prophecy does the same thing. With usually an 'immediate' fulfillment and an end of man's ways/system fulfillment, and therein too is a gap..
:2c: :Sparkletooth:

[Doug]

The "camp of the saints" is compassed by "armies," which offer competing interpretations of the gospel, and of eschatology, and all of scripture.

If Luke 21:20-22 and related prophecies apply to the heavenly Jerusalem, it would account for the tens of thousands of denominations, and the rather sad state of the churches, declining interest in church, and the Bible, the endless scandals, etc. The church has been made desolate.
   
When Jesus began his ministry, in the town of Nazareth where he grew up, when he read the scriptures on the sabbath day, he quoted from Isaiah 61:1-2, and left half of verse 2 out. The first 3 verses of the chapter are:

Isaiah 61:1-3
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.

The "day of vengeance of our God" in verse 2 must correspond to the "days of vengeance" that Jesus spoke of in Luke 21:20-22. In that case, it would not refer to the earthly Jerusalem; "to comfort all that mourn," and "To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;" are the kinds of things that apply to the church, when it has become desolate, not to the Jews of Jerusalem in 70 AD, for the simple reason that most of those Jews died, or were enslaved, and they were not comforted, and did not put on a garment of praise, nor were they anointed with "oil of joy." These things have never applied to ethnic Jews. They are promises to the saints.

The promises in the prophecy apply to the church, at the time of its desolation, when people recognize the desolate state to which the church has come, and respond appropriately. Daniel 9:27 says something is to be poured out on the desolator.

Isaiah 61:4 speaks of "building the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations." It is similar to the prophecy that James quoted in Acts 15, and applied to the church. That prophecy was also about building up ruins, those of the tabernacle of David.

Acts 15:14-18
Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

The whole of the church age has been a time of building the tabernacles of the saints, their eternal tabernacles, in the heavenly Jerusalem. So we should look for the fulfillment of Isaiah 61:2-4, the comforting of the saints, the building up and repairing of 'desolations of many generations.'

Doug

[WhiteWings]

In Daniel 12:7 a swearing angel declares that when the time period called "a time, times and a half" is fulfilled, all the things in Daniel's prophecies will be fulfilled. This period, then, must extend to the end of the age, and to the resurrection of the saints. At the end of the chapter he gives two numbers, 1,290 days and 1,335 days, that are somehow connected with the "time, times and a half." [Daniel 12:11-12]

I mentioned previously that these numbers do not fit any real, earthly three and a half years. The same is true of the 1,260 days that John introduces in Revelation. But they all fit the pattern of "a time, times and a half," or three and a half symbolic years, where months are 30 days, and there are various combinations of regular years of 12 months, and leap years of 13 months.

    1,335 days = 12 x 30 + 2 x 13 x 30 + 13 x 30 / 2
    1,290 days = 13 x 30 + 2 x 12 x 30 + 12 x 30 / 2
    1,260 days = 12 x 30 + 2 x 12 x 30 + 12 x 30 / 2

These all represent an "unreal" or non-literal three and a half years.

Depends on how you look at it. Is a leap year on the Gregorian calendar not a real year?
There are many calendars and as you wrote the Jewish calendar has leap months.
But I think the years of Daniel might be prophetic years.
A prophetic year is 360 days. 360x3.5=1260 days
The twist is that prophetic years also have Sabbath and Jubilee years. Both have a leap month.
1260+30 (leap month) = 1290 days
So 1260 and 1290 align the 7 years align exactly with a Sabbath cycle.
But I think we can narrow down the possible years even more.
A Jubilee year follows the last 7th Sabbath year in a cycle. Again a year with a 13th month.
1290+30=1320
The civil year starts at 1 Tishri (usually September)
But the religious year starts is in Nisan (usually April)
It's the month of Passover. Passover is always on 14 and 15 Nisan.
There seems to be (or have been) a custom to 'wait' the first 15 days of the religious year until passover.
1320+15=1335 days
or
1260+30+30+15=1335 days
I'm not saying the above with absolute certainty because I'm still studying it.
But it surely makes sense.
The big finally of a religious book uses a prophetic calendar.
Sabbath always was very prominent in the whole Bible.
And Jubilee even more so.
So those 3 numbers are not 7 years.
They are 7 years plus a small part of the 8th year.
Salvation begins at Jubilee when debts are forgiven and slaves (of sin) are set free.