How prophecy was sealed

[WhiteWings]

Hi,

This may be a dumb question but does any one know how many Jubilees there has been up until now?  Also, when does the next one start or end? If I am not mistaken, a Jubilee is 49 years.

CHB

There are 3 variations.

a] 7x7=49 Sabbath years. The 49th year is also a Jubilee year.
b] 7x7=49 Sabbath years. The Jubilee year that follows is the first year of the next 49 year cycle.
c] 7x7=49 Sabbath years. 50th year is the Jubilee year. The 51th year is the first year of the new cycle.

How many Jubilees is not a dumb question. Actually it's a difficult question.
Imo around Jesus it was the year 4000 After Creation.
That's 80 Jubiliees of 50 years.
I think we are now near to the 120th Jubilee. (2027...2031)

But there are also views that the Jubilee clock stopped during Exodus.

The above is a 50 year cycle.
Right now the 123th 49 year cycle recently started.
But not if the clock stopped at exodus... :mshock:

[Nathan]

Genesis 6
1 When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years."

I'll give you the short version . . .I've spoken of this before.  In God's eyes, all things are measured according to the Son . . Christ.  And . . . what I'm seeing is, Jesus is the Jubilee, which as we've been discussing is 50.  So, using that measurement, 120 x 50 equals . . .6000 years.  From Adam to Jesus was roughly 4000, from Jesus to us is another 2000 . . .after the end of the 6000 years (6th days of labor) comes the Sabbath . . .Rest overcomes reasoning . . .and I think that's what this new millenium is coming into, the age of the Sabbath Rest.  That's why the rules have changed.  It's no longer about laboring minds, but now it's about personal intimacy.  All things become restored, all accounts are paid in full.  We no longer "live for Jesus" out of a debt we owed but could not pay.  Now, we merely LET Jesus live in and through us in our intimate walk in Him.

To be totally honest, the natural measurment is irrelevant.  The spiritual application is what quickens life from within to manifest without.  It really doesn't bother me if people's math doesn't show the 70 weeks ending according to their understanding of calendars or time, are we not told to rely "not" on our understanding?  Again, it's clear that there is a shift of ministry from Jew to Gentile in Acts at the martyrdom of Stephen.  Clearly that is the end of one age and the beginning of another.  The end of the minstry to just the Jews and the beginning emphasis on the Gentiles.   Just as when in A.D. 70 is another end to another age and the beginning of a new one.  The end of the old covenant system and the begining of the new covenant in the hearts of men.  There truly are so many outside factors that can easily throw the math off when trying to rely solely on intellect  No one will ever really come to agreement as to the literal dates and calendars.  But I think that's because the signs themselves have no  power, it's what they point to that we should be striving toward.

[WhiteWings]

From Adam to Jesus was roughly 4000

I think exactly would be more exact...

There truly are so many outside factors that can easily throw the math off when trying to rely solely on intellect  No one will ever really come to agreement as to the literal dates and calendars.

I think it is possible to pinpoint many things with great accuracy. Even up to a day.
Creation was 1 Tishri. Jesus born 1 Tishri. Baptism 1 Tishri.
2 years ago I started with nothing. I have put many hours in calender stuff. I pinpointed many events. Some of my calculations still have flaws. But when really studying "time" one will quickly get a feeling that everything does exactly fit. Patterns. Even the 2  Temples were destroyed on the very same day.

My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be 6000 years.

[Nathan]

I never know for sure how to word it because I've said "exact" to others in other converations and rather than see what's attempting to be said, they counter with an argument against the "exactness"  . . .so I try to skirt around that by saying "roughly" because usually most can accept the roughly more than the exactly.

I've played with the calendar "some" not nearly as extensive as you, but I've found many argue the validity of calendars in general due to the fact that the Hebrews themselves apparently didn't live by them, the Chronicles refer to events in time by which king was in rule when the event took place.  And when the Calendar "did" take shape, it still isn't the same calendar we use today . . .the names of all the days on our Calendars are names of gods and godesses of pagans . . . and the number of days in each month is different now than then . . .and they've even added months since first originating the first calendar . . .that's why I say there are so many factors that can change the outcome of the one trying to pinpoint with any level of accuracy, when exactly things happened.

The greatest things that happened to our religious world with the birth and death of Jesus and we "still" don't have a completely clear handle on exactly what day it was. :dontknow: 

But I do agree with you when it comes to the patterns.  I'll stand by a thought or a belief much more steadfast if I see a pattern with it, much more than I would try to support something that all I have is a Bible verse . . .patterns reveal the nature of God on many levels.

[WhiteWings]

I never know for sure how to word it because I've said "exact" to others in other converations and rather than see what's attempting to be said, they counter with an argument against the "exactness"  . . .so I try to skirt around that by saying "roughly" because usually most can accept the roughly more than the exactly.

I've played with the calendar "some" not nearly as extensive as you, but I've found many argue the validity of calendars in general due to the fact that the Hebrews themselves apparently didn't live by them,

I'm talking about God's calendar. The Jews should follow it but didn't always. Or they changed little things. For example they currently celebrate (their version of) Pentecost on a fixed date. Leviticus doesn't agree...
Their year is 5771. I would say it's about 5984. My calculations are verified and agree quite wel with for example teh calculations of Bisshop Usher (sp?). OTOH Jews aren't stupid. Why the difference?

the Chronicles refer to events in time by which king was in rule when the event took place.  And when the Calendar "did" take shape, it still isn't the same calendar we use today . . .the names of all the days on our Calendars are names of gods and godesses of pagans . . .

And the days are mostly Nosk gods.

and the number of days in each month is different now than then . . .and they've even added months since first originating the first calendar . . .that's why I say there are so many factors that can change the outcome of the one trying to pinpoint with any level of accuracy, when exactly things happened.

Not really. They Jewish calendar is vastly more accurate as our calendar. But it doesn't give much differences of a period of a few millenia. The problem is that our calendar and the Jewish one get out of sync for a while and then they get into sync again. Over a 19 period their calendar is very accurate. So quite often only a few days are missing. And yes.... always near a festival day. Great for verification.
But yes calendars are sometimes wrong. But astronomy often comes to the rescue. Historians often wrote about solar and lunar eclipses.
They wrote about constelation and planet settings. With today's astronomy software we can exactly calculate for example all past solar eclipses. So sometimes the start of the reaign of a say Pharao can't be pinpointed within 10 year accuracy. But then someone finds  adocument that on the 5th year of his reign there was a solar eclipse because their god Ra was angry. That suddenly solves the 10 year accuracy problem in my made up example. The problem is that that discovery was for example made in 2005 but people are still using guesswork dates based on information of before 2005. So internet is swarmed with wrong articles. Not because those people lie or are not serious in their studies. No just because data is missing.

The greatest things that happened to our religious world with the birth and death of Jesus and we "still" don't have a completely clear handle on exactly what day it was. :dontknow: 

I give you 2 handles  :winkgrin:
Born: 11 September 3BC between 6:15pm and 7:45 PM The lady standing on the moon gives this accuracy. New moon -> darkest hour
Death 27/28 March 31 AD. Middle of the sabbath cycle. But dare I say Thursday. Last Supper however was exactly to the hour in the middle of the week.
Just use Google to verify and you will find 20 other dates

But I do agree with you when it comes to the patterns.  I'll stand by a thought or a belief much more steadfast if I see a pattern with it, much more than I would try to support something that all I have is a Bible verse . . .patterns reveal the nature of God on many levels.

Then I'm totally confused how you can claim:

To be totally honest, the natural measurment is irrelevant.

I think if a spiritual pattern doesn't align with a natural pattern it's time to reexamine the verses.


I'm getting a bit curious what's gonna happen at 2016 or 2027. My 2 end time dates  :icon_jokercolor:

[thinktank]

According to the book of Daniel, many shall go to and fro, which suggests that the transport at the time of the end will be flying objects of some kind so I bet that 2016 is to early for the end date.

[CHB]

Hi,

This may be a dumb question but does any one know how many Jubilees there has been up until now?  Also, when does the next one start or end? If I am not mistaken, a Jubilee is 49 years.

CHB

There are 3 variations.

a] 7x7=49 Sabbath years. The 49th year is also a Jubilee year.
b] 7x7=49 Sabbath years. The Jubilee year that follows is the first year of the next 49 year cycle.
c] 7x7=49 Sabbath years. 50th year is the Jubilee year. The 51th year is the first year of the new cycle.

How many Jubilees is not a dumb question. Actually it's a difficult question.
Imo around Jesus it was the year 4000 After Creation.
That's 80 Jubiliees of 50 years.
I think we are now near to the 120th Jubilee. (2027...2031)

But there are also views that the Jubilee clock stopped during Exodus.
The above is a 50 year cycle.
Right now the 123th 49 year cycle recently started.

But not if the clock stopped at exodus... :mshock:

Thanks WW,

That was good information, something I have been wondering about for a while.

CHB

[shawn]

According to the book of Daniel, many shall go to and fro, which suggests that the transport at the time of the end will be flying objects of some kind so I bet that 2016 is to early for the end date.

Like airplanes?

[Doug]

Below is another chart illustrating the 70th week. Earlier events are shown at the top, and later events at the bottom. The numbers provided in Daniel 12, and in Revelation 11 & 12, that represent the age of the church, and the time, times and a half, are each provided a vertical column, terminating at the end of the age. The largest number, 1,335 days, extends from the crucifixion of Jesus to the end of the age. The 1,290 days represents the remaining time of the church after the abomination of desolation is set up, and the sacrifices are ended. The 1,260 days represents the remaining time after the book of Revelation was written, which was probably about 95 AD. This corresponds to the 42 months. The 3.5 days, when the two witnesses lie as corpses in the street, is also shown.


          Chart of the 70th week

   Jesus' baptism______________________________________________
  |                                                            |
  |                    ministry of Jesus                       |   
  |                                                            |
  |_______________ Crucifixion_________________________________|
  |               |                                            |
  |               |                                            |
  |               |______________ Abomination of desolation____|
  |               |              |                             |
  |    1,335      |              |                             |
  |     days      |              |______________ Apocalypse____|
  |               |    1,290     |              |              | 
  |               |     days     |              |              |
  |               |              |    1,260     |              |
  |               |              |     days     |              |
  |               |              |              |              |
  |               |              |      &       |              |
  |               |              |              |              |
  |               |              |   42 months  |              |
  |               |              |              |              |
  |               |              |              |              |

  |               |              |              |              |
  |               |              |              |              |
  |               |              |              |              |
  |               |              |              |              |
  |               |              |              |              |
  |               |              |              |              |
  |               |              |              |______________|
  |               |              |              |              |
  |               |              |              |   3.5 days   |
  |               |              |              |              |
  |_______________|______________|______________|______________|
                                           End of the age


The abomination of desolation is identified as the spirit of antichrist, which was present already in John's lifetime. Revelation 20:1-3 says that Satan was bound in a bottomless pit; Jesus said, referring to Satan, that he had bound the "strong man." In the apostolic age, Satan was bound; his influence in the church was limited. But towards the end of the first century, he began to ascend out of the pit, as John described in Revelation 11:7. Jesus said to his disciples, "Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." [Matthew 18:18]

Writing late in the first century, John said that the antichrist spirit was already present. [1 John 4:3] He said that it was the "last time." [1 John 2:18] The "last time" refers to the "time, times and a half" which is the last half-week of the 70th week. Because he represented the remaining time of the church by a number smaller than the 1,290 days of Daniel, John indicated that the abomination of desolation had been set up in the temple, which is the church. Its influence has continued, often unnoticed, since then. Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy shows that something is to be "poured out" upon the abomination of desolation, the antichrist spirit that causes desolation in the church. The spirit of Christ leads us to the truth, and banishes darkness.

Doug

[Beth]

Doug, thanks for the additional posts and clarification, I'm gettinga  clearer picture of what you are sharing because of them.

BTW really good posts and interesting information offered in this thread.

[Molly]

I'm getting a bit curious what's gonna happen at 2016 or 2027. My 2 end time dates   

ugh.  I have to wait until 2016?  I was counting on 2012.

That means the tribulation has started already, according to Tim Lahey.

That means we will be raptured in late 2012, early 2013?

Ok I could handle that. :happygrin:

  2027 just won't do. :thumbdown:  Gotta go back to the drawing board with that one.


These guys are very interesting.  It's in 6 parts.  They say 2015 is a possibility.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuJYI6yoefg&NR=1

[WhiteWings]

I'm getting a bit curious what's gonna happen at 2016 or 2027. My 2 end time dates   

ugh.  I have to wait until 2016?  I was counting on 2012.

That means the tribulation has started already, according to Tim Lahey.

That means we will be raptured in late 2012, early 2013?

Ok I could handle that. :happygrin:

  2027 just won't do. :thumbdown:  Gotta go back to the drawing board with that one.


These guys are very interesting.  It's in 6 parts.  They say 2015 is a possibility.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuJYI6yoefg&NR=1

There are 2 things to this game.
Calculate a date and figure out what it means. So; is 2027 the start or end of something? I think the end.
2027 is 120x50=6000 years. (Or as Nathan wrote 120 years are appointed to man)
1000 years is a day for the Lord. 6000 is the end of the 6th day.
The 7th day is the Sabbath day. Jesus is the King of the Sabbath day. (1000 years)
So your rapture is 2027-7=2020.

Personally I'm sure all the calculations have to match. So indeed back to the drawing board.
Maybe the clock stopped 3 days/years while Jesus was in the grave. Something with 360 day years. Could be so many thing. But that's the joy of puzzling  :icon_jokercolor:
2016/2020 that's only 4 years so it's getting better. I'm not a fan of all sort of theories that state a clock stopped (to make a theory fit)

[Beth]

And here are a few things that will surely put a hitch in your calculations.

2Ki 20:8  And Hezekiah said unto Isaiah, What [shall be] the sign that the LORD will heal me, and that I shall go up into the house of the LORD the third day? 

2Ki 20:9   And Isaiah said, This sign shalt thou have of the LORD, that the LORD will do the thing that he hath spoken: shall the shadow go forward ten degrees, or go back ten degrees? 

2Ki 20:10   And Hezekiah answered, It is a light thing for the shadow to go down ten degrees: nay, but let the shadow return backward ten degrees. 

2Ki 20:11   And Isaiah the prophet cried unto the LORD: and he brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down in the dial of Ahaz. 

It's interesting that these things occur in the chapter after this is said:

2Ki 19:3   And they said unto him, Thus saith Hezekiah, This day [is] a day of trouble, and of rebuke, and blasphemy: for the children are come to the birth, and [there is] not strength to bring forth. 

And then, of course, there is this:

Mat 24:22   And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 

[WhiteWings]

And here are a few things that will surely put a hitch in your calculations.

I hope not....  :mblush:
I've been looking at the shadow going 10 degrees/steps back.
How do you think it would affect my calculation?
The calculations I've shown are all verified by different ways of determining dates.
That said I'm sure the 10 steps isn't just a isolated story.

The question is if the shortened days are already included in the other prophesies or not.

:dontknow:

[Beth]

Forgive me White Wings, I did not mean to imply that what I noted above have put a hitch in your calculations.  I've never seen your calculations so I would have no idea whether you accounted for them or not.  Sorry for the confusion.

[WhiteWings]

Nothing to forgive Beth. :thumbsup:
I'm not saying my calculations aren't flawed.
Maybe they are fine but for example your 10 steps back verse is valuble for something that I never even tried to calculate and/or consider.
Do you, or anybody else, sees the relevance of the 10 degrees/steps?
I don't; but at the same time I'm sure they should be used in some calculation....

[Molly]

I don't think this article accurately portrays what Ussher, Kepler, and others were doing with their calculations, necessarily.  They were all doing calculations, using the Bible, tracing it back to the date of the creation of Adam.  Adam wasn't necessarily created at the beginning of the creation of the earth, so all this talk of young earth seems a diversion from that to me.  However, by some of these calculations, we are now already 6000 years [6 days] from Adam and at the beginning of the 7th day.  So--

Our own ww has now thrown his hat into the ring with Ussher, Kepler, and Newton, and seems to have a better chance of being accurate then they were, assuming something BIG is supposed to happen on the day the 6000 year mark is reached.  Is there any reason to assume that?  [The Jewish day begins at night.  Is this relevant?]
 


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Ussher chronology is a 17th-century chronology of the history of the world formulated from a literal reading of the Bible by James Ussher, the Anglican Archbishop of Armagh (in what is now Northern Ireland). The chronology is sometimes associated with Young Earth Creationism, which holds that the universe was created only a few millennia ago.

Ussher's work, more properly known as the Annales veteris testamenti, a prima mundi origine deducti (Annals of the Old Testament, deduced from the first origins of the world), was his contribution to the long-running theological debate on the age of the Earth. This was a major concern of many Christian scholars over the centuries.

The chronology is sometimes called the Ussher-Lightfoot chronology because John Lightfoot published a similar chronology in 1642–1644. This, however, is a misnomer, as the chronology is based on Ussher's work alone and not that of Lightfoot. Ussher deduced that the first day of creation began at nightfall preceding Sunday, October 23, 4004 BC, in the proleptic Julian calendar, near the autumnal equinox. Lightfoot similarly deduced that Creation began at nightfall near the autumnal equinox, but in the year 3929 BC.

Ussher's proposed date of 4004 BC differed somewhat from other Biblically based estimates, such as those of Jose ben Halafta (3896 BC), Bede (3952 BC), Ussher's near-contemporary Scaliger (3949 BC), Johannes Kepler (3992 BC) or Sir Isaac Newton (c. 4000 BC).[1] Ussher's specific choice of starting year may have been influenced by the then-widely-held belief that the Earth's potential duration was 6,000 years (4,000 before the birth of Christ and 2,000 after), corresponding to the six days of Creation, on the grounds that "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day" (2 Peter 3:8). This view had been almost completely abandoned by 1997[citation needed], six thousand years after 4004 BC. Today some biblical scholars, as well as a number of literalist evangelical Christians, believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible calling for a 6000-year-old Earth.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ussher_chronology

[WhiteWings]

Our own ww has now thrown his hat into the ring with Ussher, Kepler, and Newton, and seems to have a better chance of being accurate then they were,

Not exactly. It's just as time passes by new info is found. As we all know information can be abused and misunderstood.
I once was sure He died in 30AD. Now I'm even more sure it was 31AD. And all that in 1 year time. So....

assuming something BIG is supposed to happen on the day the 6000 year mark is reached.  Is there any reason to assume that?  [The Jewish day begins at night.  Is this relevant?]

Why not? Jesus was a real man. The temple really burned down. Sodom was really destroyed. Etc. There can be a billion spiritual meanings to it but still it literally happend.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Ussher chronology is a 17th-century chronology of the history of the world formulated from a literal reading of the Bible by James Ussher, the Anglican Archbishop of Armagh (in what is now Northern Ireland). The chronology is sometimes associated with Young Earth Creationism, which holds that the universe was created only a few millennia ago.

Maybe the truth is in the middle. Jews believe in 2 calendars. The calendar of God. A vast number of years before Adam.
And "our" calendar is at 5984. Jews are at 5771. Big question.... explain the 213 year difference.

The chronology is sometimes called the Ussher-Lightfoot chronology because John Lightfoot published a similar chronology in 1642–1644. This, however, is a misnomer, as the chronology is based on Ussher's work alone and not that of Lightfoot. Ussher deduced that the first day of creation began at nightfall preceding Sunday, October 23, 4004 BC,

I would say 4003 BC
1 Tishri to be exact. Read  "in the beginning" backward in Hebrew and you get Tishri 1
It should be noted Jesus was born on 1 Tishri too. Jewish new Year. At night fall.
Adam#1 was born at night  ----> Last Adam was reborn at daybreak. Patterns.... :mblush:
(http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Holidays/Fall_Holidays/bere-tishriA.jpg)

:2c:

[thinktank]

I'm getting a bit curious what's gonna happen at 2016 or 2027. My 2 end time dates   

ugh.  I have to wait until 2016?  I was counting on 2012.

That means the tribulation has started already, according to Tim Lahey.

That means we will be raptured in late 2012, early 2013?

Ok I could handle that. :happygrin:

  2027 just won't do. :thumbdown:  Gotta go back to the drawing board with that one.


These guys are very interesting.  It's in 6 parts.  They say 2015 is a possibility.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuJYI6yoefg&NR=1

Do you think Christ will return on 2012, when the world is watching?

He comes as a thief, therefore watch

If a christ does appear on 2012 its more likely to be the false prophet, or the many who come in my name.

If he says to go into the desert or in the secret chambers, don't go forth, Jesus will return as a flash of lightning.

I think 2012 is a big part in the falling away of faith, so that many scofers will say, "where is the promise of his coming, allt things continue as the begining of creation"

Be wary of 2012 and second coming predictions by pastors, who overthrow the faith of some.

[WhiteWings]

TT,

A thief in the night doesn't mean unexpected. On the contrary.
Aren't most fallen away today?
1 billion Christians. That's 1:7.
I bet many know close to nothing about Christianity. And many never opened a Bible and just listen to that Tele Tubbie in from of church each sunday.
So how many are really Christian? Maybe just the famous 5%....

[thinktank]

I'm getting a bit curious what's gonna happen at 2016 or 2027. My 2 end time dates   

ugh.  I have to wait until 2016?  I was counting on 2012.

That means the tribulation has started already, according to Tim Lahey.

That means we will be raptured in late 2012, early 2013?

Ok I could handle that. :happygrin:

  2027 just won't do. :thumbdown:  Gotta go back to the drawing board with that one.


These guys are very interesting.  It's in 6 parts.  They say 2015 is a possibility.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuJYI6yoefg&NR=1

There are 2 things to this game.
Calculate a date and figure out what it means. So; is 2027 the start or end of something? I think the end.
2027 is 120x50=6000 years. (Or as Nathan wrote 120 years are appointed to man)
1000 years is a day for the Lord. 6000 is the end of the 6th day.
The 7th day is the Sabbath day. Jesus is the King of the Sabbath day. (1000 years)
So your rapture is 2027-7=2020.

Personally I'm sure all the calculations have to match. So indeed back to the drawing board.
Maybe the clock stopped 3 days/years while Jesus was in the grave. Something with 360 day years. Could be so many thing. But that's the joy of puzzling  :icon_jokercolor:
2016/2020 that's only 4 years so it's getting better. I'm not a fan of all sort of theories that state a clock stopped (to make a theory fit)

Interesting that I had a dream, where I was in America in 2020, I was suprised at how peacefull it was. There were few cars on the road, I talked to a tramp and he said because petrol prices were so high, there were also cool new vehicles available because of this. I also noticed new technogies, such as one where I walked into a bar and saw this woman dancing on a platform, turns out it was a hologram.

I did some research and find out that holographic technology is being developed and being released by 2016. Holographic technology could be used to set the image of the beast that speaks.

[thinktank]

TT,

A thief in the night doesn't mean unexpected. On the contrary.
Aren't most fallen away today?
1 billion Christians. That's 1:7.
I bet many know close to nothing about Christianity. And many never opened a Bible and just listen to that Tele Tubbie in from of church each sunday.
So how many are really Christian? Maybe just the famous 5%....

I got no problem with you making predictions. I think some transparency is needed. For God to not give us some clues is unfair, that's a bit like saying, "Watch your back, because a thief might stab you any minute", gee thanks for that amazing advice mate.

He said that we can know the seasons of time we are in. I don't think we are near the end because the season, says otherwise. E.g where are the false christs etc, I have seen some movements, but it is not widely recognized yet.

Also Jesus is not finished with the church. Now is the time to show off his power, when the world is in a bad condition. To show it off at the millenium is awsome, but it is so much better to have grace and His power now, while were are in suffering.

[thinktank]

According to the book of Daniel, many shall go to and fro, which suggests that the transport at the time of the end will be flying objects of some kind so I bet that 2016 is to early for the end date.

Like airplanes?

That could be the case. However very few people use airplanes, even a lot of westerners, have not been on a plane and those that do might travel maybe once a year, only a few travel by air dozens or hundreds of times a year. So I think that it means that most people will have access to flying transport, similar to how the devil, who in the book of Job goes to and fro, the same language suggests that, we will go to and fro quite regularly, just as the devil did.

[WhiteWings]

TT,

A thief in the night doesn't mean unexpected. On the contrary.
Aren't most fallen away today?
1 billion Christians. That's 1:7.
I bet many know close to nothing about Christianity. And many never opened a Bible and just listen to that Tele Tubbie in from of church each sunday.
So how many are really Christian? Maybe just the famous 5%....

I got no problem with you making predictions.

Hi TT,

I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't defending my calculation but I was asking you a question.
If you look around and count all real/sincere Christians in the world don't you conclude a very high percentage of humanity has already fallen away?

[Molly]

I did some research and find out that holographic technology is being developed and being released by 2016. Holographic technology could be used to set the image of the beast that speaks.

I read somewhere that holographic tech was already used in the first Gulf war to scare the 'enemy' troops half to death.  Who knows if that's true, but remember how fast that war was won?  I know a type of holography was already available on the computer screens of thinktanks in the 70's [3 D representations, seen from all sides].  I am sure they are very advanced with this now.  I bet holographic email is right around the corner, where you open my email and I am sitting on your couch in 3 D talking to you.  Would that count for 'to and fro' in your book? :happygrin:

Airplanes satisfies my definition of to and fro.  1.5 billion people travel by plane each year.  Then if you include train, bus, and car, that's a lot of to and fro'ing.

Be wary of 2012 and second coming predictions by pastors, who overthrow the faith of some.

yeah. you're probably right--they would fake it,  expecially if they have the technology to do it. :sigh: