What if you guys are all wrong about universal salvation?

[rosered]

Yes, Rosered, I agree that 99% of churches and that Christ has saved them all. The prostitutes and publicans may enter before them but once the Lord is done with us all, I think we'll be different creatures indeed.

Regards


Jock  :2c:

Thank you Jock for seeing that !  :girlheart: and agree 


  You know I have wondered why the   the prostitutes and  publicans will enter before    others
  because they acknowledge their sin !   and acknowledge  the SON  , JESUS CHRIST  , Life over death being a slave to sin ...

repent is the change their minds and  change their ways       
look at how Love is the greatest overcomer of this world , its not knowledge , that makes us cocky  and puffy 
its Love that  changes us all !!

Luk 7:47 Wherefore I say untoyou , Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, [the same] loves  little.  
   You know keeping all the Law  of the tree of knowldge of good and evil   
Jesus said at best   , servants and churches   you were faithful in a few things ! 
we are still dead while we live the Law of sin is death 

just a few things   is still abiding in death  , not the royal Law 
of Love   putting God first in our lives and thoughts and  depening on Him and Loving one aoher as He loves us   , the tree of Life is the royal law in effect  to us now  , this is bearing fruit of His righteousness ! the Holy Spirit
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called? 
Jam 2:8   If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 
Jam 2:9   But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 


Jam 2:10   For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

[Jock]

Martin Zender has a cool video about loving others

Here it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PndAjWmgcio

enjoy :Peace2:

[rosered]

Martin Zender has a cool video about loving others

Here it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PndAjWmgcio

enjoy :Peace2:

  Sorry Jock , I have old dial up coputer that is 12 years old
  for me to watch a video  of that length  would take  a few hours   :sigh:

I just stay in His Word it is all I am allowed at this time   to   the Blueletterbible and Biblegateway

and here and a couple more places .    God has made boundies, I as  a mortal  cannot cross alone
  But being in the Spirit   we can soar  far beyond this body of death  :girlheart:

[rosered]

  I love my brother in Christ Martain Z!

I got to watch 15 seconds of that  ..
  I will try to watch it all  Jock
  but I know that   when the Father gives you the gift of HIS LOVE  from the Holy Spirit  , its is something you have been asking for and also   will not recive it till you are  ready to use it properly

   take a 3 year old child and they ask for a bicycle  , do you think  that their father would get them one  at 3  when its of no use to   that 3year old ?
  we have to grow up into Truth and Grace , just as we read the Child Jesus grew up and waxed strong in   truth and grace  , Jesus LOVE come fully when  looking at   the open show of His    life  in scriptures  in the  power of His own Cross ! 
He learned obedience though the things He suffered !    thats  dealing with unloveable people and bad spirits on folks  cleansing and healing them   and than dying  for them all    , for all times

on His cross  ,    I tell you he always had   the Father     from the start   and  was given the Spirit without measure     [ Got to be Love right ?]       but Jesus still was put to the test by the Spirit  taking Him to the wildreness  and being tempted of the devil    , do you not think  those were training exercises ?
something we must all  do also ?
  Martain  did not see that  in  Video  to me  , but I do need to watch the whole thing first 

  Thanks just the same Jock  , I just want the nuts and bolts of how its done ,     asking for the Spirit of Love and than being exercized with it is much more    real to me   than  just getting it and than everything is A OK     you know what I am saying  ?  :HeartThrob:

[Jock]

I think that loving others is telling them about the unconditional love of a great God and His Son, Yeshua, as we have opportunity. I think love can be measured by what we do for people as well, kinda like the good Samaritan. It certainly can't be produced by the flesh though. I know you see that.

Cheers

Jock.

[rosered]

I think that loving others is telling them about the unconditional love of a great God and His Son, Yeshua, as we have opportunity. I think love can be measured by what we do for people as well, kinda like the good Samaritan. It certainly can't be produced by the flesh though. I know you see that.

Cheers

Jock.

Yes I can see what your saying here Jock  :thumbsup:

  :friendstu: cheers to you and yours

[jbertonbounds]

It's kinda hard to think that the Phelps clan from Topeka will also be saved. I don't hate them (I refuse to) but I do hate what they are saying and doing. They are driving people away from Christ. They are spreading the virus but then, a lot of churches are doing that.

Jock

Jock,

I agree except you said "a lot of churches" I think that it is more like 99%.  Seriously is there such a place where a UR person can attend meetings every week or even monthly called a "church"?

We are more like an ekkelsia than any church that I have heard of.

To answer your question, I do not know of any places around here (Tuscaloosa, Alabama) where a UR person can attend meetings without hearing the false teachings.  God has recently pulled me out of the ET church, and I now have nowhere to go.  But I know God is faithful, and he will supply what I need.  I praise him for that.  He is so good! :HeartThrob:

[mplsfitter539]

I think that loving others is telling them about the unconditional love of a great God and His Son, Yeshua, as we have opportunity. I think love can be measured by what we do for people as well, kinda like the good Samaritan. It certainly can't be produced by the flesh though. I know you see that.

Cheers

Jock.

Jock,

Telling people about the unconditional love of a great God and His Son is a great place to start as long as the opportunity arises on its own so to speak. I am finding that just showing people through my actions and words shows them how love works. When my paradigm shift from ET to UR took place I tried telling people about it (unconditional love of God) but most in ET are not ready to hear it and it tends to make them mad. It reminds me of a scene in a movie called "the matrix". In this scene Morpheus is telling Neo that he was reluctant to "wake" him up because Neo was too old. This is the problem for most ETers. They have spent their entire life worshiping a god who loves you until death and then either hates you or continues His love towards you depending on your individual circumstances. My mother gets so upset that she actually told me that she doesn't want to hear the truth about God anymore from me. Of course she wants to hear about him from people who agree with ET just not me. Now I am not calling myself a prophet but I believe this verse applies anyway.
John 4
44 For Jesus himself testified, that a prophet hath no honour in his own country.

I just found a better verse for this because it includes relatives.
Mark 6
4 But Jesus, said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.

DuWayne

[Jock]

mplsfitter539  I concur with all your points. I used to be with a group who preached on the streets and people doing street dramas whilst others were handing out tracts

To love God is the greatest commandment but our neighbor is someone He will lead us to.

Jock.

[jbertonbounds]

I think that loving others is telling them about the unconditional love of a great God and His Son, Yeshua, as we have opportunity. I think love can be measured by what we do for people as well, kinda like the good Samaritan. It certainly can't be produced by the flesh though. I know you see that.

Cheers

Jock.

Jock,

Telling people about the unconditional love of a great God and His Son is a great place to start as long as the opportunity arises on its own so to speak. I am finding that just showing people through my actions and words shows them how love works. When my paradigm shift from ET to UR took place I tried telling people about it (unconditional love of God) but most in ET are not ready to hear it and it tends to make them mad. It reminds me of a scene in a movie called "the matrix". In this scene Morpheus is telling Neo that he was reluctant to "wake" him up because Neo was too old. This is the problem for most ETers. They have spent their entire life worshiping a god who loves you until death and then either hates you or continues His love towards you depending on your individual circumstances. My mother gets so upset that she actually told me that she doesn't want to hear the truth about God anymore from me. Of course she wants to hear about him from people who agree with ET just not me. Now I am not calling myself a prophet but I believe this verse applies anyway.
John 4
44 For Jesus himself testified, that a prophet hath no honour in his own country.

For me the difficulty lies in knowing how far to take it when sharing UR.  I want to shout it from the mountain tops because I want everyone to know.  But that has cost me dearly in loosing my church home, my honor, my standing in the community, some of my friends, and at times peace in my own household.  I gladly pay the price for the sake of the kingdom and for God's glory.  I know people get mad at me, but they also got mad at Jesus and that didn't stop him.  I always have a problem knowing where to draw lines. :sigh:  After all, are we not supposed to persevere even unto death?

[mplsfitter539]

John,

I pray for opportunities and God gives them to me but not when or how I would choose. I want to tell my parents but God has another time for them. I want to tell my girlfriend but God has another time for her also. The challenge is keeping quite until God makes the situation happen in His time. Once you settle down and become totally confident in UR then you can begin to change those around you by your consistent positive behavior. As the old saying goes.......actions speak louder than words. If a murderer tells you that he has changed his ways you likely won't believe him until he has not killed anyone for a long stretch of time from the last killing. He may even still harbor feelings of killing for some time after his conversion.

DuWayne

[dajomaco]

Love is the answer.
The flesh cannot measure love.
The spirit gives Love without measure.
Each one of us is given a measure of Faith
to believe that God gives Love without measure.

[jbertonbounds]

The Spirit helps me know where to draw lines.  The flesh clouds my judgement.  Staying close to God and being led by his Spirit is of utmost importance in living in the truth and light.  We must deny the flesh, staying clean of pornography and lust, dishonesty, revenge, drunkeness and drug abuse, slander and heresy, pursuit of material goods and self gratification, etc.  When we deny our flesh and keep our minds on Jesus, the scriptures, and God's kingdom, remaining humble and loving to others, and remaining faithful even in the face of persecution, we live in truth and light.   :dsunny:  That, my friends, is the definition of an overcomer.

[jbertonbounds]

The Spirit helps me know where to draw lines.  The flesh clouds my judgement.  Staying close to God and being led by his Spirit is of utmost importance in living in the truth and light.  We must deny the flesh, staying clean of pornography and lust, dishonesty, revenge, drunkeness and drug abuse, slander and heresy, pursuit of material goods and self gratification, etc.  When we deny our flesh and keep our minds on Jesus, the scriptures, and God's kingdom, remaining humble and loving to others, and remaining faithful even in the face of persecution, we live in truth and light.   :dsunny:  That, my friends, is the definition of an overcomer.

I posted a version of this on FaceBook today. :winkgrin:
Just another seed I planted. :thumbsup:
Pray for rain. :Pray:

[rosered]

The Spirit helps me know where to draw lines.  The flesh clouds my judgement.  Staying close to God and being led by his Spirit is of utmost importance in living in the truth and light.  We must deny the flesh, staying clean of pornography and lust, dishonesty, revenge, drunkeness and drug abuse, slander and heresy, pursuit of material goods and self gratification, etc.  When we deny our flesh and keep our minds on Jesus, the scriptures, and God's kingdom, remaining humble and loving to others, and remaining faithful even in the face of persecution, we live in truth and light.   :dsunny:  That, my friends, is the definition of an overcomer.

I posted a version of this on FaceBook today. :winkgrin:
Just another seed I planted. :thumbsup:
Pray for rain. :Pray:

Again I would say that is  being faithful in a few things   jb 

  its Christ in you   the very hope of glory    that overcomes the world   and all thats in it

Jhn 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.  

1Jo 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
   the Christ come to fulfill  the Law  and also bring in the new covenant , royal law by magnifying the  Law
    just mine  :2c:

[dajomaco]

There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

You can not be perfected in love if you fear God

[rosered]

There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

You can not be perfected in love if you fear God

  Sorry Dajomaco   the scriptures says differently    here . :2c:  I do fear the Lord and desire the Wisdom from above , and desire    to obey Jesus  in  every experience   given to grow in truth and grace   
  You are Being perfected when you fear God , the fear of the Lord is the begining of Wisdom [from above ]    we are still walking out the days of our flesh as well  ,  only though the Spirit of Christ dwelling in us doing the Works with the Father  does the Love   become perfect [mature ] within us .

Hbr 5:7


So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee


As he saith also in another [place], Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he

feared;


Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered


;And being made perfect,

he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing

[marie glen]

...all goes to prove, it's not doctrine.. it's "have ye any fruit?" ...if one is perfected in love/fruit, the fruit of the Spirit, the Spirit being God's Presence dwelling inn one and flowing through one, there is no fear.. it then is all reverence.. fear if we fall.. fear if we are no longer dwelling in Him and Him in us, deliberately turning from and disobeying Him, definitely might fear (one's own consequences He lets happen).. But even during wilderness time, a mature and true lover of God knows it's not what one feels, but what God saith.. Aka, if we feel alone, we are not alone, if we don't feel His active love, He still is actively loving us.

Not doctrine, fruit. Gal 5:22 (And we must be diligent to add to that the full armor, because the enemy seeks to douse the light - the fruit.) :gsmile:

[rosered]

...all goes to prove, it's not doctrine.. it's "have ye any fruit?" ...if one is perfected in love/fruit, the fruit of the Spirit, the Spirit being God's Presence dwelling inn one and flowing through one, there is no fear.. it then is all reverence.. fear if we fall.. fear if we are no longer dwelling in Him and Him in us, deliberately turning from and disobeying Him, definitely might fear (one's own consequences He lets happen).. But even during wilderness time, a mature and true lover of God knows it's not what one feels, but what God saith.. Aka, if we feel alone, we are not alone, if we don't feel His active love, He still is actively loving us.

Not doctrine, fruit. Gal 5:22 (And we must be diligent to add to that the full armor, because the enemy seeks to douse the light - the fruit.) :gsmile:

Well said !  :thumbsup:

[marie glen]

  thank you, rosered  :hiya:

[rosered]

  thank you, rosered  :hiya:

Blessings  sista  Marie  !
I was remined  when reading your post   of a  saying I heard many years ago   and never forgot it
  '' The proof of the fruit is in the root ''' :dsunny:


Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit [be] holy, the lump [is] also [holy]: and if the root [be] holy, so [are] the branches.

Mat 15:13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

[TomH]

Hi peeps, this is more first post here.
I'm new to this "Jesus saves all" doctrine, and I want to keep moving forward but still have some burning questions, maybe some of you can help me?

1. What if Satan the angel of light has blinded you to love the world more than following and believing what God has commanded will happen? What if you are simply making God in your image because you love your own humans more than you love the Lord? What if you really can't handle the truth that the sad fact may be that millions will burn forever?

2. What if this is Gods plan? If you were to die and God revealed to you that there is an eternal hell, will you stop loving God?

3. What if God really is like this?

4. What if you end up in hell because you unknowingly led people astray?

What you say God commanded will happen is incorrect because it comes from an incorrect translation of the word of God. Nowhere in the word of God does it say "millions will burn forever."

The church has a history of torturing and killing people just for reading the word of God, and the church still considers it heresy to believe the word of God correctly translated rather than the doctrine of church tradition.

There is a common misconception about "hell," an Old English word translated from the Greek "hades" literally meaning "un-perceived," or "unseen," referring to the "unseen" state of a dead soul, but the meaning of "hell" has been distorted by intentional mistranslation of "Gehenna" as "hell" twelve times in the King James Version and the Douay-Rheims Catholic Version in the following verses: Matthew 5:22,29,30, 10:28, 18:9, 23:15,33; Mark 9:43,45,47; Luke 12:5; James 3:6. "Gehenna" refers to the ravine of Hinnom, southwest of Jerusalem, used by the ancient Jews to sacrifice their children in fire to Moloch, an Ammonite god, and later used to burn the corpses of criminals condemned to death as it will be in the coming eon.

"'And it comes, according to the monthly quota in its month, and according to the sabbath quota in its sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before Me in Jerusalem,' says Yahweh. 'And they fare forth and see the corpses of the mortals, the transgressors against Me, for their worm shall not die, and their fire shall not be quenched, and they become a repulsion to all flesh.'" (Isaiah 66:23,24)

The intentional mistranslation of "Gehenna" as "hell" has propagated the myth of "hell fire." The church, failing to suppress the word of God by killing people with fire, changed the word of God to terrorize people with torture in fire forever after death.

Hell is obviously not the lake of fire because the King James Version (Revelation 20:14) says hell will be cast into the lake of fire.

Words used in common bibles to express the concept of eternity are incorrect translation of variations of the Greek "aion," literally translated "eon," and the corresponding Hebrew "olam," which refer to a period of time not endless time. I'm not a Greek scholar, but I've learned the Greek "aionion," translated as "eternal" in the King James Version, is the adjective of "aion." The adjective of a period of time can not describe endless time despite the fact that some references biased to church doctrine may say so.

So, what you're relying on for your position is incorrect translation of the word of God. I suggest you study the Concordant Version for an accurate account of God's ultimate plan for humanity. You can also use the Interlinear Scripture Analyzer to compare the ancient text with an ultra-literal translation, the Concordant Version, the King James Version, and Young's Literal Translation. You will see that a better translation changes the whole story.

God's ultimate plan is not to torture the majority of humanity in fire forever, and teachers of that false church doctrine should believe the word of God. Those who believe the word of God regarding the reconciliation of all are accused of heresy by the church. Heresy is simply a belief that does not conform to church doctrine, but church doctrine does not conform to the word of God. Even the corrupt translations used by the church contain the verse that says all will be reconciled through Christ. The church says most people will be tortured in hell fire forever, but the word of God says all will be reconciled through Christ so that God may be all in all.

"through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Colossians 1:20)

"Yet now Christ has been roused from among the dead, the Firstfruit of those who are reposing. For since, in fact, through a man came death, through a Man, also, comes the resurrection of the dead. For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified. Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence; thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power. For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy is being abolished: death. For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him. Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all." (1 Corinthians 15:20-28)

"Out of Him and through Him and for Him is all." (Romans 11:36)

So the question is, do you believe the church or the word of God?

http://concordant.org/online/index.html

http://www.scripture4all.org/

[jbertonbounds]

There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
You can not be perfected in love if you fear God

Sorry Dajomaco   the scriptures says differently    here . :2c:  I do fear the Lord and desire the Wisdom from above , and desire    to obey Jesus  in  every experience   given to grow in truth and grace   
  You are Being perfected when you fear God , the fear of the Lord is the begining of Wisdom [from above ]    we are still walking out the days of our flesh as well  ,  only though the Spirit of Christ dwelling in us doing the Works with the Father  does the Love   become perfect [mature ] within us .

Dajomaco is quoting 1 John 4:18, "There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love."  The word fear is being used here to describe the fear of punishment.  When we become right with God, we lose that fear of punishment.

Rosered is referring to a different kind of "fear," meaning to revere the Lord and respect him.  Gary Amirault just published a study on this type of "fear and trembling."  He believes that the words "fear and trembling" are not the best translation of the Greek words that were translated "fear and trembling."  Read this study, and I think you'll find it interesting:  http://www.tentmaker.org/Biblematters/fear.htm

[Lazarus Short]

It reminds me of a scene in a movie called "the matrix". In this scene Morpheus is telling Neo that he was reluctant to "wake" him up because Neo was too old.

To paraphrase Morpheus:  "Do you think that's the Gospel you're hearing right now...hmmmmm???"

[mplsfitter539]

It reminds me of a scene in a movie called "the matrix". In this scene Morpheus is telling Neo that he was reluctant to "wake" him up because Neo was too old.

To paraphrase Morpheus:  "Do you think that's the Gospel you're hearing right now...hmmmmm???"

Thanks Dennis for adding that quote. I did some digging into that movie and its no coincidence that there are many types and shadows in the Matrix.