http://www.naturalnews.com/026503_pandemic_swine_flu_bioterrorism.html
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Quote from: Taffy on July 18, 2009, 10:35:52 AM
http://www.naturalnews.com/026503_pandemic_swine_flu_bioterrorism.html
:icon_flower:
No wonder I've given up sleeping! :mshock:
Welcome back, Taffy! (I think.) :icon_flower:
.
TAFFY!!!!!! I was thinking of ya yesterday! I wrote Kim re ya.
Did you know I do not have your email address since I redone
my computer? So glad you are back on ......hope you are feeling
better! Blessings.
Yeah, that swine flu .........better leave them "swine" alone! ha
Maybe they'll run off in the water!
If pigs could fly I'd fly a pig
To foreign countries small and big
"Swine Flu Made in USA and Canada"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNS0Q-uxycA&NR=1
Quote from: Molly on July 18, 2009, 01:26:27 PM
"Swine Flu Made in USA and Canada"
Like Spanish flu
An effort to recreate the 1918 flu strain (a subtype of avian strain H1N1) was a collaboration among the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, Southeast Poultry Research Laboratory and Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York; the effort resulted in the announcement (on October 5, 2005) that the group had successfully determined the virus's genetic sequence, using historic tissue samples recovered by pathologist Johan Hultin from a female flu victim buried in the Alaskan permafrost and samples preserved from American soldiers.[59]
On January 18, 2007, Kobasa et al. reported that monkeys (Macaca fascicularis) infected with the recreated strain exhibited classic symptoms of the 1918 pandemic and died from a cytokine storm[60] – an overreaction of the immune system. This may explain why the 1918 flu had its surprising effect on younger, healthier people, as a person with a stronger immune system would potentially have a stronger overreaction.[61]
On September 16, 2008, the body of Yorkshireman Sir Mark Sykes was exhumed to study the RNA of the Spanish flu virus in efforts to understand the genetic structure of modern H5N1 bird flu. Sykes had been buried in 1919 in a lead coffin which scientists hope will have helped preserve the virus.[62]
In December, 2008 research by Yoshihiro Kawaoka of University of Wisconsin linked the presence of three specific genes (termed PA, PB1, and PB2) and a nucleoprotein derived from 1918 flu samples to the ability of the flu virus to invade the lungs and cause pneumonia. The combination triggered similar symptoms in animal testing.[63]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic
Welcome back, Taffy. :bigGrin:
Grace and peace,
Brandon
Molly,
Eat your silver spoon. Chew very well....
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 18, 2009, 09:28:02 PM
Molly,
Eat your silver spoon. Chew very well....
wouldn't this be easier?
http://colloidalsilversecrets.blogspot.com/2009/04/colloidal-silver-and-swine-flu-7.html
I have to say, I'll have to do more research. Meanwhile, I'm hoarding the silver spoon...
Ha! you already knew :thumbsup:
The device can be build for a few $
The silver is more of a problem.
Ya'know,
these types of stories spread fear and panic.
A prime reason I avoid anything out of Hollywood.
I look for rest and peace.
Are you guys just joshin' around or is this true?
QuoteAre you guys just joshin' around or is this true?
What?
Silver as medication or the Mexican flu?
The flu epidemic being a deliberate act.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 18, 2009, 10:17:46 PM
Ya'know,
these types of stories spread fear and panic.
A prime reason I avoid anything out of Hollywood.
I look for rest and peace.
Are you guys just joshin' around or is this true?
What, are you meeting evil for the first time or something?
Allow me to introduce you, Beloved Servant this is Evil, Evil this is Beloved Servant.
Or maybe you could explain to me why anyone in their right (that is, not insane) mind would recreate the recombinant DNA of a deadly flu from 90 year old corpses!
(which by the way just happened to turn up in the human population a few months later at the end of the flu season...)
And, why would you, of all people, be afraid?
John 14:27
Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
I am not afraid.
And I did consider someone would ask that before I posted in this thread.
It is the spreading of the fear that is the concern.
ty Molly..im still around just very quiet girl :icon_flower:
ty Red....Kimmy mentioned you in one of her mails thinking of you too and many others around Tent too :icon_flower: :icon_flower:
ty AS..Blessings to you :icon_flower:
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 18, 2009, 11:06:52 PM
I am not afraid.
And I did consider someone would ask that before I posted in this thread.
It is the spreading of the fear that is the concern.
I thought this was about the spreading of the flu...
Don't you think truth causes a lot of people to be afraid and that is why so many flee from it?
Otherwise,why would it be in such short commodity?
We are each responsible for searching out whatever truth can be found. The only other option is to believe fables until we become fables ourselves.
2 Timothy 4:4
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
I love the truth be told.
But the thread is conspiracy.
I understood it as as evil act to deliberately kill people for profit.
Thus I asked: is this true?
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 18, 2009, 11:36:27 PM
I love the truth be told.
But the thread is conspiracy.
I understood it as as evil act to deliberately kill people for profit.
Thus I asked: is this true?
You have to decide that for yourself. In fact, you are required to decide that for yourself.
That means being pro-active once you have asked the right questions, and searching out the answers.
Please tell me, if you had the ability to recreate the genetic structure of a deadly flu (not to mention splicing it onto another deadly flu) would you do it?
What would it take for you to sit in a laboratory and do this?
the effort resulted in the announcement (on October 5, 2005) that the group had successfully determined the virus's genetic sequence, using historic tissue samples recovered by pathologist Johan Hultin from a female flu victim buried in the Alaskan permafrost and samples preserved from American soldiers.Would you ever think anything good could come out of that? Or is that sheer evil?
Now mind you, this is not in response to any threat, it is out of the blue.
So, what would it take for you to do that? Money? Threats on your life? Threats on your family? Or just garden variety insanity?
Have you heard the phrase, "crimes against humanity"?
You think someone is making money on this? I'm shocked and surprised! But, here's a stock tip.
Donald Rumsfeld's controversial links to drug company behind TamifluThe drug company behind the swine flu medicine Tamiflu is at the centre of controversy over its links to former US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.
Mr Rumsfeld, a former chairman of the company, has refused to comment on whether he still holds shares in Californian firm Gilead Sciences, which developed the drug now being desperately stockpiled by governments around the world to combat the threatened pandemic.
Last night an associate of Mr Rumsfeld said: 'He does not publicly discuss his private finances.'
However, should Mr Rumsfeld have held on to shares in the company, he would be a major beneficiary of the surge in the global demand for the drug. The NHS alone has already purchased enough Tamiflu to treat three-quarters of the population in the UK.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1176743/Donald-Rumsfelds-controversial-links-drug-company-Tamiflu.html
I take no care for what the governments of this world do.
It even disturbs me to speak of it.
They have no affect on me.
My path is the Way.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 18, 2009, 11:53:50 PM
I take no care for what the governments of this world do.
It even disturbs me to speak of it.
They have no affect on me.
My path is the Way.
Even Jesus didn't take that attitude.
He got in their faces and called them what they are--a brood of vipers.
And, he did that for our benefit, by the way, not his own.
We are in the world, not of it. So we are to be salt until he returns.
And, also, light.
It's His fight.
So, perhaps, this is conspiracy theory and not a conspiracy.
As Im from the UK..its not long come on the National news ( 2 hrs back)about the concern about the safety of this vaccine.,as some believe its not been tested long enough to ensure that it is...Therefore theres uncertainty of its possible long term side effects..for those who can remember the drug Phalidimide , among others, causing tragic effects ... :sigh:
:icon_flower:
Hi BS :icon_flower:
For mine, its not about spreading fear or panic..but possibly making folk aware what MAY\ could happen..and it has in the past to some degree with Drugs..and for sure ,from experience shared by the the voices of others at Tent, who too have suffered at the hand of drugs... :sigh:
:icon_flower:
Hi Taffy,
I, too, will share my experience with you.
I was an editor at a newspaper for a number of years.
When the word conspiracy hits the desk, everyone sits up.
Conspiracy theory gets a yawn.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 19, 2009, 01:10:53 AM
Hi Taffy,
I, too, will share my experience with you.
I was an editor at a newspaper for a number of years.
When the word conspiracy hits the desk, everyone sits up.
Conspiracy theory gets a yawn.
ty BS
:icon_flower:
thanks for sharing. :icon_flower:
Blessings Taffy
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 19, 2009, 01:10:53 AM
Hi Taffy,
I, too, will share my experience with you.
I was an editor at a newspaper for a number of years.
When the word conspiracy hits the desk, everyone sits up.
Conspiracy theory gets a yawn.
Surprising, that, since you have not yet commented on one fact on the preceding page.
Facts make you yawn, too?
What's surprising Molly?
That I was an editor?
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 19, 2009, 02:00:53 AM
What's surprising Molly?
That I was an editor?
Yes, it's surprising.
The first link on this thread alone references hundreds of pages of evidence to back up the journalist's claims.
Oh dear! Molly!
The internet is as reliable as a paid informant.
Research takes many people, many hours, many phone calls, many interviews and in this case, many lawyers.
The conspiracy indicated here, could involve charges of treason and crimes against humanity.
The implication here is enormous.
well BS
Nothing can fault actual proof...and as we say " the proof is in the pudding"...so..Time may well be whats needed...a Billion folk die in the course of it, we may then have a relative degree of suspicion...lol
thats of course your around to testify to it..ROFL
just bustin on yer pal..im not looking to debate
:icon_flower:Blessings
T
I also despise debate.
But, there simply is no story here.
It's whoremongering, just trading in cheap information for profit.
It's a familiar spirit.
Reminds me of the story that George Bush ordered the destruction of the World Trade Center.
Welcome back Taffy!
I'm not sure about the "swine flu" conspiracy, but I wouldn't put it past somebody/some people creating it.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 19, 2009, 02:35:44 AM
I also despise debate.
But, there simply is no story here.
It's whoremongering, just trading in cheap information for profit.
It's a familiar spirit.
Reminds me of the story that George Bush ordered the destruction of the World Trade Center.
Yes, well, I ask a lot of questions. Asking questions is not whoremongering, and you will only ever get the answers to questions you ask.
So I ask a question like where did all that steel and concrete go? How did 110 stories of steel and concrete turn to dust, leaving behind a debris pile of around one story high?
This is only one of a thousand questions you could ask if you were so inclined.
But, this one is curious in that it is dealing with the very forces that hold matter together.
Even a small magnetic field can be used to flip protons. What if the field was large enough and focused enough?
Would you have a new weapon? Certainly not the sort of thing that men in caves are inclined to have in their arsenal. Boxcutters! Ha! Do they think we are fools?
Like X ray, MRI is based on a discovery in the physic lab: when the nuclei of hydrogen atoms--single protons, all spinning randomly--are caught suddenly in a strong magnetic field, they tend to line up like so many compass needles. If the protons are then hit with a short, precisely tuned burst of radio waves, they will momentarily flip around. Then, in the process of returning to their original orientation, they resound with a brief radio signal of their own. The intensity of this emission reflects the number of protons in a particular "slice" of matter.http://people.ee.duke.edu/~jshorey/MRIHomepage/work.html
Cell phones in the city didn't work that day.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 19, 2009, 02:18:01 AM
The internet is as reliable as a paid informant.
Is big farma peddling it's products part of that 'paid informant'?
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 18, 2009, 11:36:27 PM
I love the truth be told.
But the thread is conspiracy.
I understood it as as evil act to deliberately kill people for profit.
Thus I asked: is this true?
What are most wars about? Helping of citizens?
For example do you think the Iraq war really was/is to give Iraqi citizens a better life?
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 18, 2009, 10:17:46 PM
these types of stories spread fear and panic.
A prime reason I avoid anything out of Hollywood.
I don't live in the USA but we have our own Hollywood.
News about the flu several times a day. Nothing substantial. When looking at the stats this flu is very very mild. I call that causing panic. I'm not saying the media are
trying to cause panic but they just report because otherwise the other news network gets the scoop.
Just journalists parroting what they found on the telex. Did they really check their sources? And if they did what source had their source. I wouldn't be suprised at all that mist indepentend sources are coming from the same source.
Read older articles and the outbreak should already be out of control. So months of panic for nothing.
So you have to ask yourself:
- Who caused panic first? -> Big Farma
- Who helped blown it out of proportion? -> Media. Just because they rarely check sources and want to sell ads.
- What was first the conspiracy of the large scale media coverage?
Quote from: Molly on July 18, 2009, 10:58:23 PM
Or maybe you could explain to me why anyone in their right (that is, not insane) mind would recreate the recombinant DNA of a deadly flu from 90 year old corpses!
Perhaps just for study. If there is a conspiracy it isn't necessarily the above mentioned scientists.
Remember Nobel didn't work for the military either...
http://justgetthere.us/blog/archives/Hyped-Flu-Will-Make-Use-of-Expiring-Tamiflu-Stockpiles-and-Allow-For-Pre-Pandemic-Priming-of-The-Population.html (http://justgetthere.us/blog/archives/Hyped-Flu-Will-Make-Use-of-Expiring-Tamiflu-Stockpiles-and-Allow-For-Pre-Pandemic-Priming-of-The-Population.html)
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 19, 2009, 06:57:24 PM
Quote from: Molly on July 18, 2009, 10:58:23 PM
Or maybe you could explain to me why anyone in their right (that is, not insane) mind would recreate the recombinant DNA of a deadly flu from 90 year old corpses!
Perhaps just for study. If there is a conspiracy it isn't necessarily the above mentioned scientists.
Remember Nobel didn't work for the military either...
http://justgetthere.us/blog/archives/Hyped-Flu-Will-Make-Use-of-Expiring-Tamiflu-Stockpiles-and-Allow-For-Pre-Pandemic-Priming-of-The-Population.html (http://justgetthere.us/blog/archives/Hyped-Flu-Will-Make-Use-of-Expiring-Tamiflu-Stockpiles-and-Allow-For-Pre-Pandemic-Priming-of-The-Population.html)
Just for study?!???
Sorry that doesn't pass the smell test.
Let's see how many deadly human viruses we can create in our lab--just out of curiousity. And, then, let's ship it all over the world. And then--oops--some of it goes missing--oops--a vial of it explodes on a crowded train--oops, oops, oops--
These people are criminals in my book--and that includes the scientists that do their bidding.
I'd like to see them all in jail--for life.
More than a week after the public announcement of this novel H1N1 strain, the WHO has yet to determine the origin of the virus. The complex reassortment of the novel virus, coupled with the location and time of year of the outbreak, has lead to numerous speculations that the novel virus was the result of a lab creation that either escaped, or was released intentionally to achieve numerous globalist agendas. Surprisingly in 2004, the CDC conducted multiple experiments in an attempt to create a new hybrid virus in a lab. The reason given to perform such dangerous experiments, was the threat of nature creating a hybrid virus with the killing rate of the avian flu, and transmissibility of human flu viruses. Using two methods, first they infected cells in laboratory tissue cultures, with H5N1 avian flu and H3N2 human virus, to see if they would mix. Secondly, they used reverse genetics to assemble a new virus that contained H5N1 and H3N2. Any viable viruses that emerged from these combinations, would in turn be seeded into ferrets, according to David Daigle, CDC spokesman.
Quote from: Molly on July 19, 2009, 07:11:49 PM
Sorry that doesn't pass the smell test.
Another smell test for you...
The virus does spread very slowly. Much slower than a seasonal flu. But, they say, this virus can mutate very quickly and turn into something really dangerous very quickly. That would mean the the almost declared holy Tamiflu isn't guaranteed to work.
I'm not concered about the flu. But I'm about the costs. Fact or fiction it generates some $ for big farma.
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 19, 2009, 07:23:44 PM
Quote from: Molly on July 19, 2009, 07:11:49 PM
Sorry that doesn't pass the smell test.
Another smell test for you...
The virus does spread very slowly. Much slower than a seasonal flu. But, they say, this virus can mutate very quickly and turn into something really dangerous very quickly. That would mean the the almost declared holy Tamiflu isn't guaranteed to work.
I'm not concered about the flu. But I'm about the costs. Fact or fiction it generates some $ for big farma.
Who cares if it works or not? Not them, they've already sold it and made their profit. And, if it doesn't work they can sell another 'cure' and make more profit.
Profit is the name of the game,isn't it? And death..
Oh and big pharma has such a good historical reputation--
In his book Aspirin: The Story of a Wonder Drug, by Diarmuid Jeffreys, Mr. Jeffreys states that:
― Bayer AG sponsored the experiments of Nazi Dr. Josef Mengele. In 1956 Fritz ter Meer became chairman of Bayer after having been sentenced at the Nuremberg trials to seven years' imprisonment for his part in carrying out experiments on human subjects at Auschwitz.
http://wapedia.mobi/en/Bayer?t=4.#4.Study the AIDS virus some day. That one's a lot of fun.
Quote from: Molly on July 19, 2009, 07:36:20 PM
In his book Aspirin: The Story of a Wonder Drug, by Diarmuid Jeffreys, Mr. Jeffreys states that:
― Bayer AG sponsored the experiments of Nazi Dr. Josef Mengele.
I.G. Farben was just one of the industrial sponsors of Hitler.
QuoteStudy the AIDS virus some day. That one's a lot of fun.
I did years ago. Didn't make me smile...
Quotedid years ago. Didn't make me smile...
Why can't we stop these people? They just keep doing the same thing over and over again.
Why is everyone else so ignorant of the truth?
Proverbs 8:36
But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.
Quote from: Molly on July 19, 2009, 07:55:50 PM
Why can't we stop these people? They just keep doing the same thing over and over again.
Maibly because most people are followers. Just sheep. Including the media that just copy news from the telex without verifying it.
And those who do.... they are wacko conspiracy morons.
Afterall the past of governments and the Fat Cats is without blemish.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 19, 2009, 02:35:44 AM
I also despise debate.
But, there simply is no story here.
It's whoremongering, just trading in cheap information for profit.
It's a familiar spirit.
Reminds me of the story that George Bush ordered the destruction of the World Trade Center.
You mean to tell me that George W.Bush did not know in advance that the twin towers were coming down?
The history of America is woven throughout with bizarre crimes.
This is the latest book looking into such things:
http://www.legacyofsecrecy.com/
This present world is fallen.
That pretty much says it all, doesn't it?
It's not a little fallen...
It is UTTERLY fallen.
This world is passing away...
This is not our real home.
Even those who do evil at the highest levels...
This is NOT their true home.
And they are NOT who they are to become.
Hallelujah....
Do not fear.
What is seen is TEMPORARY...
What is unseen.... eternal.
What can we do?
We can do what God wants us to do...
LOVE!
LOVE!
LOVE!
Don't waste too much time talking about evil...
Go on now...
Go out there and LOVE.
No-one needs to be convinced of EVIL!
People need to be CONVINCED of LOVE!!
Hope ya'll understand what I mean...
I have gone down the lonely road of fear.
It will suck the very life out of you.
"oh but we must be aware.... we must shine a light on evil!!"
NO! We must shine the light on LOVE!
peace...
sparrow
Amen, Sparrow. It is a waste of time to fret over that which is fallen. Why fret over Babylon?
Granted, looking at is can be pretty astonishing. But the heavens are rejoicing over her fall.
His eye is on the Sparrow...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sROZuzXeIvI
Peace -
Anne
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on July 20, 2009, 04:12:47 AM
Amen, Sparrow. It is a waste of time to fret over that which is fallen. Why fret over Babylon?
Granted, looking at is can be pretty astonishing. But the heavens are rejoicing over her fall.
His eye is on the Sparrow...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sROZuzXeIvI
Peace -
Anne
Thanks Anne for understanding what I was saying.. :girlheart:
I understand where folks are coming from as far as the outrage and stuff.
I went through a period of time where I was totally getting sucked into all the evil, and it just seemed there was no end. It brought about such a division in my spirit, like I was becoming almost obsessed with researching this crap. And I was pulling further and further away from Him. My focus had really started going down the wrong road. (Forget about "whatosever is pure, etc. think on these things.) Perhaps there are others who are meant to shine a light on these things, I don't know. But perhaps those who know the POWER of love and His amazing grace are meant to put LOVE in the spotlight.... and not fear. We hold onto this LOVE because we KNOW it is REAL. We are to be lightbearers, right? That's what I'm thinking... to not get sucked into this world system with all of it's bizarreness and fear and ridiculous amounts of insane corruption, just turn away from it (not DENY that it is happening, but to just turn away from it and focus on HIM and His amazing love) and cram as much love into this world as we can.
Because THAT is what the world is in desperate need of, LOVE. (God is love.)
NOT more fear. We know this world system is collapsing. :dontknow:
What's the use in even dwelling on the madness of it all.
We know it's mad.
Shine the light on love. on HIM.
Thanks for the song, it was beautiful.. :HeartThrob:
Sparrow -
Thank YOU for taking time to share that with me. I've been down a number of futile roads (more than once) .. how we sheep do stray! And the good Shepherd keeps carrying me back home! It is incredible how we are truly made to FOLLOW. If you carefully observe, you will notice that you (and I) and ALWAYS following something or someone. It is an unchanging phenomenon! No wonder there are so many admonitions to FOLLOW Christ, to REMEMBER him, to renew our minds, to think on good things. Everything under the sun is vying for attention. But only One is worthy to sit on the throne and to be listened to and trusted and obeyed! Glory to the Lamb!
He is our hiding place... he fills our hearts with songs of deliverance!
"You Are My Hiding Place" by Selah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co6HXUN19AY&NR=1
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on July 20, 2009, 08:35:40 AM
Sparrow -
Thank YOU for taking time to share that with me. I've been down a number of futile roads (more than once) .. how we sheep do stray! And the good Shepherd keeps carrying me back home! It is incredible how we are truly made to FOLLOW. If you carefully observe, you will notice that you (and I) and ALWAYS following something or someone. It is an unchanging phenomenon! No wonder there are so many admonitions to FOLLOW Christ, to REMEMBER him, to renew our minds, to think on good things. Everything under the sun is vying for attention. But only One is worthy to sit on the throne and to be listened to and trusted and obeyed! Glory to the Lamb!
He is our hiding place... he fills our hearts with songs of deliverance!
"You Are My Hiding Place" by Selah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co6HXUN19AY&NR=1
That's so true! I'm really glad you posted that.
We sheep DO stray! Hey, y'know you just put a great visual in my mind that I think will help me.
Thanks sis! :HeartThrob:
sparrow
Because everyone has heard so often that Albert Einstein was a genius, they accept this as truth. They do not understand Einstein's theories, nor have they ever questioned them, nor do they realize that he plagiarized most of what he published which is why he never received a Nobel Prize for relativity--the scientists of the day raised such a rucus that they couldn't perpetrate that fraud, at least.
Let's look at what the inventor of the 20th century, Nikola Tesla, had to say about Einstein's theory of relativity-
...[a] magnificent mathematical garb which fascinates, dazzles and makes people blind to the underlying errors. The theory is like a beggar clothed in purple whom ignorant people take for a king...., its exponents.... are metaphysicists rather than scientists... (New York Times, July 11, 1935, p23, c.8).
Why is this important to you and me and the man in the street? It is important because the really important science of the last 100 years has been co-opted, hidden, and distorted by a small group to use against humanity instead of for humanity as Tesla envisioned.
We should not be proud of our ignorance or wear it like a banner. Rather, we should educate ourselves as fast as we can on the subjects of free energy and others--and ask what would it do for humanity if the real science of the last 100 years was made public and put at the service of all for the good of humanity, instead of at the service of a few for their own evil agenda.
Revelation 20:2
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more...
PHYSICS WITHOUT EINSTEIN
Harold Aspden (b. 1927) is a retired British author, theoretical physicist, electrical engineer, and inventor from Southampton, Hampshire, England. He is an outspoken critic of Einstein's Theory of Relativity, and has proposed a whole new concept of Physics based on a dynamic Aether fluid crystal structure permeating all space: the energy source that regulates quantum activity, constantly framing our whole physical universe, and that accounts for the creation of matter.[1]
He is the author of a number of books, most notably Physics without Einstein (1969; 2005), The Physics of Creation (2003) and Creation: The Physical Truth (2006). He is also author of a number of papers published in notable peer-review journals (Journal of Applied Physics [1952], Lettere al Nuovo Cimento [Europhysics Letters], Physics Today, etc.) and in alternative non-mainstream journals (Hadronic Journal, Physics Essays, etc.).
He has authored numerous papers that attempt to debunk Einsteinian relativity [7] and Hawking's expanding universe [8] and that support a cosmology based on the aether subtle medium, that is, that there are two intermeshing worlds, both having three space dimensions, the material world that we can see and the etheric, unseen ghost-like underworld, that we can sense by phenomena which standard model physics has been unable to explain, notably gravitation. He describes that the aether has a kind of fluid crystal structure (that is partly dragged along by the earth), the oscillatory jitter of which accounts for its quantum electrodynamic properties and, arising from its need for dynamic balance, the force of gravitation. He has also developed various patented free energy (over-unity) systems and advanced the foundations of an unified theory which claims to account for known celestial-cosmological phenomena better than currently held theories, i.e. the formation of the solar system and its angular momentum.[9] Subsequently, publication and references to his work, with or without explicit mathematical content, have been avoided within the scientific mainstream, labeled as "science fiction" by a journal deemed as "high standard" [10], or otherwise dismissed without any substantiated reason.[11] [12]
In 2005, Aspden criticized the entire scientific community of physicists and cosmologists, in his research papers [13] [14], on one hand, for building mammoth accelerators costing billions of dollars to produce high speed impact of protons when they do not have any theory giving insight into how those protons themselves are created; and, on the other hand, for the vast expenditure in probing the depths of remote space based on their unproven notion that gravitation applies without moderation within very dense matter deemed to exist in so-called neutron stars when they have no theory showing how G, the constant of gravitation, is determined here on Earth in terms of electrical interaction as between particles. He further describes how his work with more than 50 years of research, shedding comprehension into fundamental assumptions that have hindered physics advancement during the last 20th century (such as the erroneous foundation of Earnshaw's theorem[15] [16] or an alternative interpretation to the Pauli exclusion principle [17]), has been ignored by the scientific community.[18] Simultaneously, he has invited the whole community to disprove the results provided by the unified theory of a new physics that he presents, based on the sea of energy, the dynamic Aether medium, that permeates all space:
"Who, I wonder, will challenge my comment that the sun is not powered by hot nuclear fusion?" [19]
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Harold_Aspden
The present belongs to them, but the future belongs to me.
— Nikola Tesla
Quote from: Molly on July 22, 2009, 09:35:01 PM
Because everyone has heard so often that Albert Einstein was a genius, they accept this as truth. They do not understand Einstein's theories, nor have they ever questioned them, nor do they realize that he plagiarized most of what he published which is why he never received a Nobel Prize for relativity--the scientists of the day raised such a rucus that they couldn't perpetrate that fraud, at least.
Yeah, it's said he got his idea's from comining combining/stealing idea's he saw during his job at the Swiss patent buro.
I think he was overshadowed by Pauli, Lorentz and Bohr. I think most people even never heard of those three.
Especially Niels Bohr wasn't 'completely convinced' op Einsteins work.
As with so many things being very skilled at what you do is only part of success. Networking is of vast importance.
Noone will know you if you just hide in your lab and work, work, work.
The same is true for Jesus. If He had lived 90 years and always stayed inside to study Scripture and pray then noone would ever have heard of Him.
Throughout space there is energy. Is this energy static or kinetic? If static, our hopes are in vain. If kinetic, and we know for certain it is, then it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of nature. Many generations may pass, but in time our machinery will be driven by a power attainable at any point in the universe.
--Nikola Tesla, 1891
Are we surprised that space is not the empty vacuum of faux physics, but, rather, teeming with energy? Noooooooo
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
--Col 1
Conservation of Energy
The law of conservation of energy states that the total amount of energy in an isolated system remains constant. A consequence of this law is that energy cannot be created nor destroyed. The only thing that can happen with energy in an isolated system is that it can change form, for instance kinetic energy can become thermal energy. Because energy is associated with mass in the Einstein's theory of relativity, the conservation of energy also implies the conservation of mass in isolated systems (that is, the mass of a system cannot change, so long as energy is not permitted to enter or leave the system).
Another consequence of this law is that perpetual motion machines can only work perpetually if they deliver no energy to their surroundings. If such machines produce more energy than is put into them, they must lose mass and thus eventually disappear over perpetual time, and are therefore impossible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy
What perhaps is the most important conclusion...is that zero point energy is not conserved. Hello. I just said something remarkably incredible. I said the conservation of energy law doesn't apply here.
--Tom Valone, New Energy Congress
Thanks Taffy and all for speaking on these things , though they be ''unpleasent '' at this present times to deal with I am reminded of Pauls words in romans 8 it can be appied to this Time of troubles and also this by the beloved David and the preacher ...
what can man do to me ?
Psa 56:11 In God have I put my trust: I will not be afraid what man can do unto me.
Psa 118:6 The LORD [is] on my side; I will not fear: what can man do unto me?
Ecc 2:12 And I turned myself to behold wisdom, and madness, and folly: for what [can] the man [do] that cometh after the king? [even] that which hath been already done.
:icon_flower:
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together.
Rom 8:18 ¶ For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it].
Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Rom 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to [the will of] God.
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Rom 8:31 ¶ What shall we then say to these things? If God [be] for us, who [can be] against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? [It is] God that justifieth.
Rom 8:34 Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
:HeartThrob: rose
Are we living in a sea of free energy? Max Planck knew this 100 years ago.
From this line of reasoning, quantum physics predicts that all of space must be filled with electromagnetic zero-point fluctuations (also called the zero-point field), creating a universal sea of zero-point energy. The density of this energy depends critically on where in frequency the zero-point fluctuations cease. Since space itself is thought to break up into a kind of quantum foam at a tiny distance scale called the Planck scale (10 −33 centimeters), it is argued that the zero-point fluctuations must cease at a corresponding Planck frequency (10 43 hertz). If this is the case, the zero-point energy density would be 110 orders of magnitude greater than the radiant energy at the center of the Sun.
--Bernard Haisch
"We are whirling through endless space, with an inconceivable speed, all around us everything is spinning, everything is moving, everywhere there is energy... There must be some way of availing ourselves of this energy more directly. Then, with the light obtained from the medium, with the power derived from it, with every form of energy obtained without effort, from the store forever inexhaustible, humanity will advance with giant strides. The mere contemplation of these magnificent possibilities expands our minds, strengthens our hopes and fills our hearts with supreme delight."
— Nikola Tesla, referring to Zero Point Energy in 1891
UFO's? A hidden technology? I'm shocked and surprised! :icon_flower:
ZPE has already been described to the world press in the Disclosure Project in 2001 by ex-government contractors.These insiders worked on classified and now suppressed electro propulsive devices (anti-gravity) for the American and corporate controlled government
Despite being disclosed at the national press club, the world's press never followed up by directing public attention to the disclosure project's EVIDENCE or by presenting FURTHER details to the EXISTENCE of ZPE to the public.
Today we face a destabilizing dependency on irreplaceable fossil fuels which are also rapidly dwindling. A real need exists for a portable source of power that can compete with fossil fuel and its energy density. A further need exists for a fuelless source of power which, by definition, does not require re-fueling. One source which can replace fossil fuels is zero-point energy (ZPE).
http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/zeropointenergy.htm
The concept of conservation of energy becomes meaningless within the context of a limitless energy provided freely by God to his sons.
--Molly
Ephesians 5:14
Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
http://news.aol.co.uk/swine-flu-hits-100000-cases-a/article/20090723060830141888555 :sigh:
Flu striking England in the middle of summer?
Odd, that.
Since when is summer 'flu season'?
Quote from: Molly on July 23, 2009, 08:38:38 PM
Flu striking England in the middle of summer?
Odd, that.
Since when is summer 'flu season'?
http://enjoyingthejourney.blogspot.com/2009/07/baxter-pharmaceuticals-avian-flu.html
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9mh9f_swine-flu-1976-propaganda_webcam
In 2008 the producer of the vacine predicted a 500% profit in 2009....
Two pages: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,637119,00.html
QuoteDon't you think there's something noteworthy about the fact that the WHO has changed its definition of pandemic? The old definition was a new virus, which went around quickly, for which you didn't have immunity, and which created a high morbidity and mortality rate. Now the last two have been dropped, and that's how swine flu has been categorized as a pandemic.
Quotein the worst case, the vaccine will be totally ineffectual. In the best of cases, the few decent studies that exist show that the vaccine mainly works with healthy young adults. With children and the elderly, it only helps a little, if at all.
QuoteTamiflu can cause nausea. And there are things that point toward psychiatric side effects. There are reports coming out of Japan that young people who have taken Tamiflu have had acute psychotic reactions similar to those found in schizophrenics
QuoteOn March 19, 2003, Senator Joseph Lieberman (D-CT) introduced S. 666, the Biological, Chemical, and Radiological Weapons Countermeasures Research Act.
More: http://olpa.od.nih.gov/tracking/senate_bills/session1/s-666.asp
QuoteThe EU666 and US666 status codes are also associated with a smallpox vaccine, and on a more individual basis, about two dozen other substances.
Maybe it's interesting that vaccines that are stockpiled for "biodefense" purposes carry the 666 designation, but for purposes of the swine flue H1N1 vaccination that will be coming out in a few months, this US666 and EU666 wouldn't apply because it hasn't been stockpiled; it's new.
More: http://shammahspace.ca/This/2009/07/666-swine-flu-bio-defense-vaccines/
And: http://www.prisonplanet.com/eu666-biodefense-stockpile-and-us666-biodefense-stockpile.html
http://birdflu666.wordpress.com/
http://www.autismtoday.com/articles/1_in_6.htm
1 in every 166 children in the US has autism.
1 in every 10,000 Amish children in the US has autism.
(Amish don't vacinate)
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 28, 2009, 06:37:55 PM
http://www.autismtoday.com/articles/1_in_6.htm
1 in every 166 children in the US has autism.
1 in every 10,000 Amish children in the US has autism.
(Amish don't vacinate)
Watch a grown man cry...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_3_Nv-iSd4
Oh my God! :mshock: Is this possible?
2.) Dr. Moulden, we understand that you have made a revolutionary discovery. Can you tell us about it?
I would be happy to.
Through my extensive research and my work throughout the years, I have discovered that vaccinations are causing impaired blood flow (ischemia) to brain and body from clinically silent to death. These are strokes – across the board for all of us. I have reason to believe that all are being affected and all vaccinations ARE causing the overwhelming rise in autism, specific learning disabilities, attention deficit disorders, sudden infant death, gulf war syndrome, dementia, seizure disorders, some cancers it would appear, and much much more.
3.) What led you away from the rigid and possibly blinkered views of most of the rest of the medical profession?
The brain and nervous system is wired in a very specific format. Functions are localized to specific areas. Having studied brain and behavior, neurosciences, clinical neuropsychology, child neurodevelopment, functional brain imaging, clinical neurology, clinical neuropsychiatry, clinical medicine, immunology, hematology, tests and measurement, and understanding the tools and assumptions and techniques of mainstream medicine, I fell in the unique position of having being able to see clinical medicine problems, from a multitude of simultaneous areas of expertise and scientific knowledge. Relative to the human brain, I understood "rules and laws" of brain function relative to brain damage and the mechanisms of medical physiology that can uniquely cause unique patterns of brain damage in ways that my clinical skills could detect, that mainstream neuroimaging cannot. The initial "aha" moment was in 2001.
4.) What was it which caught your attention, what tipped you off and incited you to scratch the surface and investigate further?
I was seeing, autistic patients, coming out of medical school – they had a trans-cortical motor aphasia, isolation of speech syndrome, and very specific cranial nerve palsies that could ONLY be accounted for by ischemic stroke. Remarkably, my studies of schizophrenia, dementia, and research exposure to neuroimaging modalities and brain and behavioral assessments before medical school contributed to my ability to "see" what has been in front of our eyes all along – ischemic strokes and brain damages – from vaccinations. The problem has been we neither knew how to measure, when to measure or what to measure, let alone what the limitations were, of the tools we have been using to measure brain integrity, in health, disease and disorder.
It has taken the past several years to decipher how ischemic brain damages were happening in the autism we were seeing and the many other neurodevelopmental disorders. I now believe I have the answers for this, or so it appears and some solutions.
Wild polio caused the exact same brain damages as ALL other vaccines are. Indeed, Guillian Barre syndrome and a host of other neurological disorders is being caused by a common mechanism of injury – albeit from different triggers for different individuals. This is ischemia –from impaired blood flow in microcirculation units. We simply did not appreciate what was right before our eyes.
My first cases included several Autistic and Schizophrenic patients. They were showing the exact same acute onset palsies – paralysis. These brain damages were subtle – but measurable multiple, and were present in the pre-vaccine era for wild viruses like polio and infantile paralysis.
Germs simply are not the only root cause of death, disease, and disorder. I have now conclusively shown that ALL vaccines, from infancy to geriatric, are causing the exact same brain damages irrespective of what disease or disorder comes out. The damages are specific to end vascular "mini strokes" that are beneath the resolution of our neuroimaging, but measurable in a before/after vaccination protocol. They are also directly measurable in real time – however, this involves techniques and technology I have not disclosed to the public as yet.
Remarkably, wild polio, pre-natal German measles, measles, tetanus, "Spanish flu", etc.. all caused the exact same damages in the pre-vaccine era. We simply did not appreciate that a generic response in the human body was causing the paralysis and respiratory failure and more in from a non-specific immune response and instability of microscopic blood flow hemodynamics.
We have weakened viruses and bacteria, injected them into all of us and caused chronic illness and disease in an attenuated form, this is how these pathogens have always caused harm. It is the bodies response to foreign things entering it, especially under hypersensitivity states, that is causing neurodevelopment disorders and chronic illness and much more.
7.) You speak of epidemics. What is your understanding of an epidemic? How does it manifest?
The explanation of epidemic is simple, we are now seeing:
1 in 6 children with specific learning disabilities.
12-15% children with attention deficit disorder.
1 in 87 with autism spectrum – a 1700% increase over ten years.
1% sudden infant death
40 deaths and 15,000 substantive adverse Gardasil reactions
1 in 15 over 65 with dementia; 1 in 8 over 85
Chronic fatigue syndrome
Fibromyalgia
Seizure disorders
"West" syndrome
Global developmental delay
1 in 450 with type 1 diabetes
1 in 2 men and 1 in 3 women will develop cancer over a lifetime.
Gulf war syndrome affecting and disabling 250,000 troops and 42,000 deaths. These vaccinated soldiers show the exact same neurological damages after vaccination as the infants and children are exhibiting after each childhood vaccination. These are strokes – oxygen demand exceeding oxygen supply – conclusively!
This is just the tip of the iceberg.
These microscopic strokes are happening to the brain and body in immediate and delayed, waxing and waning, acute and chronic ways. This is receiving a plethora of clinical labels. In basic physiology – the base cause is common across the board.
There is no such thing as an acquired genetic epidemic. The epidemic is an acquired phenomenon, from environmental factors, for which I can now conclusively show, vaccinations are the mass culprit for most of this.
More at...
http://vactruth.com/2009/07/21/dr-andrew-moulden-interview-what-you-were-never-told-about-vaccines/
Deadly Immunity
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. investigates the government cover-up of a mercury/autism scandal
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.Posted Jun 20, 2005 12:00 AM
In June 2000, a group of top government scientists and health officials gathered for a meeting at the isolated Simpsonwood conference center in Norcross, Georgia. Convened by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the meeting was held at this Methodist retreat center, nestled in wooded farmland next to the Chattahoochee River, to ensure complete secrecy. The agency had issued no public announcement of the session -- only private invitations to fifty-two attendees. There were high-level officials from the CDC and the Food and Drug Administration, the top vaccine specialist from the World Health Organization in Geneva and representatives of every major vaccine manufacturer, including GlaxoSmithKline, Merck, Wyeth and Aventis Pasteur. All of the scientific data under discussion, CDC officials repeatedly reminded the participants, was strictly "embargoed." There would be no making photocopies of documents, no taking papers with them when they left.
The federal officials and industry representatives had assembled to discuss a disturbing new study that raised alarming questions about the safety of a host of common childhood vaccines administered to infants and young children. According to a CDC epidemiologist named Tom Verstraeten, who had analyzed the agency's massive database containing the medical records of 100,000 children, a mercury-based preservative in the vaccines -- thimerosal -- appeared to be responsible for a dramatic increase in autism and a host of other neurological disorders among children. "I was actually stunned by what I saw," Verstraeten told those assembled at Simpsonwood, citing the staggering number of earlier studies that indicate a link between thimerosal and speech delays, attention-deficit disorder, hyperactivity and autism. Since 1991, when the CDC and the FDA had recommended that three additional vaccines laced with the preservative be given to extremely young infants -- in one case, within hours of birth -- the estimated number of cases of autism had increased fifteenfold, from one in every 2,500 children to one in 166 children.
Even for scientists and doctors accustomed to confronting issues of life and death, the findings were frightening. "You can play with this all you want," Dr. Bill Weil, a consultant for the American Academy of Pediatrics, told the group. The results "are statistically significant." Dr. Richard Johnston, an immunologist and pediatrician from the University of Colorado whose grandson had been born early on the morning of the meeting's first day, was even more alarmed. "My gut feeling?" he said. "Forgive this personal comment -- I do not want my grandson to get a thimerosal-containing vaccine until we know better what is going on."
But instead of taking immediate steps to alert the public and rid the vaccine supply of thimerosal, the officials and executives at Simpsonwood spent most of the next two days discussing how to cover up the damaging data. According to transcripts obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, many at the meeting were concerned about how the damaging revelations about thimerosal would affect the vaccine industry's bottom line. "We are in a bad position from the standpoint of defending any lawsuits," said Dr. Robert Brent, a pediatrician at the Alfred I. duPont Hospital for Children in Delaware. "This will be a resource to our very busy plaintiff attorneys in this country." Dr. Bob Chen, head of vaccine safety for the CDC, expressed relief that "given the sensitivity of the information, we have been able to keep it out of the hands of, let's say, less responsible hands." Dr. John Clements, vaccines advisor at the World Health Organization, declared that "perhaps this study should not have been done at all." He added that "the research results have to be handled," warning that the study "will be taken by others and will be used in other ways beyond the control of this group."
In fact, the government has proved to be far more adept at handling the damage than at protecting children's health. The CDC paid the Institute of Medicine to conduct a new study to whitewash the risks of thimerosal, ordering researchers to "rule out" the chemical's link to autism. It withheld Verstraeten's findings, even though they had been slated for immediate publication, and told other scientists that his original data had been "lost" and could not be replicated. And to thwart the Freedom of Information Act, it handed its giant database of vaccine records over to a private company, declaring it off-limits to researchers. By the time Verstraeten finally published his study in 2003, he had gone to work for GlaxoSmithKline and reworked his data to bury the link between thimerosal and autism.
Vaccine manufacturers had already begun to phase thimerosal out of injections given to American infants -- but they continued to sell off their mercury-based supplies of vaccines until last year. The CDC and FDA gave them a hand, buying up the tainted vaccines for export to developing countries and allowing drug companies to continue using the preservative in some American vaccines -- including several pediatric flu shots as well as tetanus boosters routinely given to eleven-year-olds.
The drug companies are also getting help from powerful lawmakers in Washington. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, who has received $873,000 in contributions from the pharmaceutical industry, has been working to immunize vaccine makers from liability in 4,200 lawsuits that have been filed by the parents of injured children. On five separate occasions, Frist has tried to seal all of the government's vaccine-related documents -- including the Simpsonwood transcripts -- and shield Eli Lilly, the developer of thimerosal, from subpoenas. In 2002, the day after Frist quietly slipped a rider known as the "Eli Lilly Protection Act" into a homeland security bill, the company contributed $10,000 to his campaign and bought 5,000 copies of his book on bioterrorism. The measure was repealed by Congress in 2003 -- but earlier this year, Frist slipped another provision into an anti-terrorism bill that would deny compensation to children suffering from vaccine-related brain disorders. "The lawsuits are of such magnitude that they could put vaccine producers out of business and limit our capacity to deal with a biological attack by terrorists," says Dean Rosen, health policy adviser to Frist.
Even many conservatives are shocked by the government's effort to cover up the dangers of thimerosal. Rep. Dan Burton, a Republican from Indiana, oversaw a three-year investigation of thimerosal after his grandson was diagnosed with autism. "Thimerosal used as a preservative in vaccines is directly related to the autism epidemic," his House Government Reform Committee concluded in its final report. "This epidemic in all probability may have been prevented or curtailed had the FDA not been asleep at the switch regarding a lack of safety data regarding injected thimerosal, a known neurotoxin." The FDA and other public-health agencies failed to act, the committee added, out of "institutional malfeasance for self protection" and "misplaced protectionism of the pharmaceutical industry."
"You couldn't even construct a study that shows thimerosal is safe," says Haley, who heads the chemistry department at the University of Kentucky. "It's just too darn toxic. If you inject thimerosal into an animal, its brain will sicken. If you apply it to living tissue, the cells die. If you put it in a petri dish, the culture dies. Knowing these things, it would be shocking if one could inject it into an infant without causing damage."
....
Internal documents reveal that Eli Lilly, which first developed thimerosal, knew from the start that its product could cause damage -- and even death -- in both animals and humans. In 1930, the company tested thimerosal by administering it to twenty-two patients with terminal meningitis, all of whom died within weeks of being injected -- a fact Lilly didn't bother to report in its study declaring thimerosal safe. In 1935, researchers at another vaccine manufacturer, Pittman-Moore, warned Lilly that its claims about thimerosal's safety "did not check with ours." Half the dogs Pittman injected with thimerosal-based vaccines became sick, leading researchers there to declare the preservative "unsatisfactory as a serum intended for use on dogs."
In the decades that followed, the evidence against thimerosal continued to mount. During the Second World War, when the Department of Defense used the preservative in vaccines on soldiers, it required Lilly to label it "poison." In 1967, a study in Applied Microbiology found that thimerosal killed mice when added to injected vaccines. Four years later, Lilly's own studies discerned that thimerosal was "toxic to tissue cells" in concentrations as low as one part per million -- 100 times weaker than the concentration in a typical vaccine. Even so, the company continued to promote thimerosal as "nontoxic" and also incorporated it into topical disinfectants. In 1977, ten babies at a Toronto hospital died when an antiseptic preserved with thimerosal was dabbed onto their umbilical cords.
In 1982, the FDA proposed a ban on over-the-counter products that contained thimerosal, and in 1991 the agency considered banning it from animal vaccines. But tragically, that same year, the CDC recommended that infants be injected with a series of mercury-laced vaccines. Newborns would be vaccinated for hepatitis B within twenty-four hours of birth, and two-month-old infants would be immunized for haemophilus influenzae B and diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis.
The drug industry knew the additional vaccines posed a danger. The same year that the CDC approved the new vaccines, Dr. Maurice Hilleman, one of the fathers of Merck's vaccine programs, warned the company that six-month-olds who were administered the shots would suffer dangerous exposure to mercury. He recommended that thimerosal be discontinued, "especially when used on infants and children," noting that the industry knew of nontoxic alternatives. "The best way to go," he added, "is to switch to dispensing the actual vaccines without adding preservatives."
For Merck and other drug companies, however, the obstacle was money. Thimerosal enables the pharmaceutical industry to package vaccines in vials that contain multiple doses, which require additional protection because they are more easily contaminated by multiple needle entries. The larger vials cost half as much to produce as smaller, single-dose vials, making it cheaper for international agencies to distribute them to impoverished regions at risk of epidemics. Faced with this "cost consideration," Merck ignored Hilleman's warnings, and government officials continued to push more and more thimerosal-based vaccines for children. Before 1989, American preschoolers received eleven vaccinations -- for polio, diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis and measles-mumps-rubella. A decade later, thanks to federal recommendations, children were receiving a total of twenty-two immunizations by the time they reached first grade.
As the number of vaccines increased, the rate of autism among children exploded. During the 1990s, 40 million children were injected with thimerosal-based vaccines, receiving unprecedented levels of mercury during a period critical for brain development. Despite the well-documented dangers of thimerosal, it appears that no one bothered to add up the cumulative dose of mercury that children would receive from the mandated vaccines. "What took the FDA so long to do the calculations?" Peter Patriarca, director of viral products for the agency, asked in an e-mail to the CDC in 1999. "Why didn't CDC and the advisory bodies do these calculations when they rapidly expanded the childhood immunization schedule?"
But by that time, the damage was done. At two months, when the infant brain is still at a critical stage of development, infants routinely received three inoculations that contained a total of 62.5 micrograms of ethylmercury -- a level 99 times greater than the EPA's limit for daily exposure to methylmercury, a related neurotoxin. Although the vaccine industry insists that ethylmercury poses little danger because it breaks down rapidly and is removed by the body, several studies -- including one published in April by the National Institutes of Health -- suggest that ethylmercury is actually more toxic to developing brains and stays in the brain longer than methylmercury.
More at....
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7395411/deadly_immunity/
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 28, 2009, 06:37:55 PM
1 in every 10,000 Amish children in the US has autism.
(Amish don't vacinate)
I wonder if the Amish lifestyle has more to do with that than just lack of vaccinations?
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 31, 2009, 09:46:39 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 28, 2009, 06:37:55 PM
1 in every 10,000 Amish children in the US has autism.
(Amish don't vacinate)
I wonder if the Amish lifestyle has more to do with that than just lack of vaccinations?
As the federal government worked to prevent scientists from studying vaccines, others have stepped in to study the link to autism. In April, reporter Dan Olmsted of UPI undertook one of the more interesting studies himself. Searching for children who had not been exposed to mercury in vaccines -- the kind of population that scientists typically use as a "control" in experiments -- Olmsted scoured the Amish of Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, who refuse to immunize their infants. Given the national rate of autism, Olmsted calculated that there should be 130 autistics among the Amish. He found only four. One had been exposed to high levels of mercury from a power plant. The other three -- including one child adopted from outside the Amish community -- had received their vaccines.--Deadly Immunity, IBID
Public Broadcasting (PBS), did a television documentary on this a few years ago.
The Amish gene pool is degenerating and they are very aware of this.
http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2009/04/04/autism-in-amish-children-1-in-10000/
QuoteWiznitzer admits to Amish vaccination rates being around 50% but other's have reported very much lower rates.
QuoteThe fact is, we can't basically use the argument. It's much more complex than just vaccinated versus unvaccinated.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 31, 2009, 09:46:39 PM
I wonder if the Amish lifestyle has more to do with that than just lack of vaccinations?
Paul,
Surely healty living is a good thing in general. But has it anything to do with autism? I don't know.
Things just can go wrong. Just think about the softenon children. A proven and admitted medical mistake.
Autism.
http://www.autismtoday.com/articles/1_in_6.htm
Quotefrom about 1 in 10,000 children in 1987
to a shocking 1 in 166 today.
In this period, new shots containing Thimerosal were added to the nation's already crowded vaccination schedule.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1576829,00.html
Quotebefore 1990 was reported to affect just 4.7 out of every 10,000 American children
now strikes 60 per 10,000, according to many estimates--the equivalent of 1 in 166 kids?
The two articles combined:
1987 and earlier - 1 out of 10,000 (like the Amish right now)
1990 - 4.7 out of 10,000
2009 - 60 out of 10,000
The way I read it it's not just the way of living. Unless the lifestyle of the average American has changed dramatically since 1987-1990. I think not. But you live there so tell me.
Personally I see an alarming trend.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 31, 2009, 10:11:03 PM
Public Broadcasting (PBS), did a television documentary on this a few years ago.
The Amish gene pool is degenerating and they are very aware of this.
You mean some day they might catch up to all the babies injected with thimerosal who got autism and learning disabilities?
Or, what do you mean by degenerating? Seems like you are addressing another issue.
Another issue.
The Amish are too closely related to each other by blood.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 31, 2009, 10:11:03 PM
Public Broadcasting (PBS), did a television documentary on this a few years ago.
The Amish gene pool is degenerating and they are very aware of this.
I would think a degenerating genepool would be the
cause of autism. Not the cure...
Besides of that the Amish autism stats are stable. It's the stats of the average American that is climbing.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 31, 2009, 09:46:39 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 28, 2009, 06:37:55 PM
1 in every 10,000 Amish children in the US has autism.
(Amish don't vacinate)
I wonder if the Amish lifestyle has more to do with that than just lack of vaccinations?
I was adding to Paul's remark.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 31, 2009, 10:15:22 PM
Wiznitzer admits to Amish vaccination rates being around 50%
In that case I would expect half of 166. So 1 out of 332.
However most sources (all I found) report (close to) zero vaccination rates.
Possibly all copying articles from eachother.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 31, 2009, 10:23:32 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 31, 2009, 09:46:39 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 28, 2009, 06:37:55 PM
1 in every 10,000 Amish children in the US has autism.
(Amish don't vacinate)
I wonder if the Amish lifestyle has more to do with that than just lack of vaccinations?
I was adding to Paul's remark.
Yep, I've read that in your reply to Molly.
We were posting at about the same time.
Jews have a similar problem.
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 31, 2009, 10:25:10 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 31, 2009, 10:15:22 PM
Wiznitzer admits to Amish vaccination rates being around 50%
In that case I would expect half of 166. So 1 out of 332.
However most sources (all I found) report (close to) zero vaccination rates.
Possibly all copying articles from eachother.
There are different populations of Amish. The UPI reporter studied a control population in pennsylvania who had not received vaccinations.
From that other article--
After learning that "Autism Rates Rocket – 1 in 38 British Boys – Cambridge Study" we now find Dr. Max Wiznitzer, a key vaccine proponent admitted on Friday night's US TV programme Larry King Live that the rate of autism in northeastern Ohio, the largest Amish community in the USA with low rates of vaccination, was 1 in 10,000. He should know, he said: "I'm their neurologist."
Quote from: Molly on July 31, 2009, 10:28:20 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 31, 2009, 10:25:10 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 31, 2009, 10:15:22 PM
Wiznitzer admits to Amish vaccination rates being around 50%
In that case I would expect half of 166. So 1 out of 332.
However most sources (all I found) report (close to) zero vaccination rates.
Possibly all copying articles from eachother.
There are different populations of Amish. The UPI reporter studied a control population in pennsylvania who had not received vaccinations.
From that other article--
After learning that "Autism Rates Rocket – 1 in 38 British Boys – Cambridge Study" we now find Dr. Max Wiznitzer, a key vaccine proponent admitted on Friday night's US TV programme Larry King Live that the rate of autism in northeastern Ohio, the largest Amish community in the USA with low rates of vaccination, was 1 in 10,000. He should know, he said: "I'm their neurologist."
I read that part too, what does it then say that this guy seems to contradict himself in the very same article?
Is there really a conspiracy or in general do people see the stats then look around at the pool of people they know and see a different story.
How many autistic children in your personal lives have you actually come across?
I've been to 10 different churches with a pool of 1000+ kids among them all, helped in the childrens ministry in all of them and never came across one autistic child in the bunch or parent who even talked about theirs. Prayer requests that I remember revealed some references to a couple of requests in that nature.
One child I have known that had asbergers, from the knowledge I have. the Mother used drugs during pregnancy, but they will not admit this to an official source.
Considering drug use has increased in the US, certainly there is a factor there, but if the studies can't factor in the unknown, it's hard to know for sure.
Paul,
QuoteIs there really a conspiracy
Some people do everything for an extra $. So perhaps there is one (on a small scale)
But, as I noted in a previous post, it can just as well be a honest medical mistake.
Just like the the drug that caused softenon. It has be recognised and taken of the market.
I think stats like presented in this thread are always the first step to take a drug of the market.
QuoteI've been to 10 different churches with a pool of 1000+ kids among them all, helped in the childrens ministry in all of them and never came across one autistic child in the bunch or parent who even talked about theirs.
Are you still visting church today? I ask because the rise of autism is in children that are now at a max. age of 20.
Did people in your church vaccinate? Amish are not the only ones that don't vaccinate.
You know Paul, one of the biggest problems with this kind of stuff is locating unbiased research.
Big pharma will never publish anything that shows they sell junk/poison.
It's all about advertising, PR and preventing law suits. Personally I never seen a commericial pointing out the bad things of a certain product.
Conspiracy? That's up to you to decide.
If greed is conspiracy, then yes there is huge conspiracy going on IMO
I tried to find similar research for Europe. Didn't find anything yet.
If for example Europe has a far different autism number and use exactly the same vaccination then that sheds a far different light on the whole topic...
One child in 60 'suffers from a form of autism'
By Sue Reid
Last updated at 11:33 PM on 20th March 2009
Far more children have autism than previously thought, a study of British school pupils has found.
Researchers now believe as many as one in 60 children has some form of the condition.
The disturbing findings, which are due to be made public within weeks, mean that up to 216,000 children in the UK could suffer from an autistic condition, although many have not yet been diagnosed.
The research could have a major impact on public services in Britain with many more youngsters potentially needing a lifetime of special care.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1163606/One-child-60-suffers-form-autism.html
My niece is autistic. My wife was on the phone with her just this morning. She's 8 (not my wife, my niece :laughing7:). Brilliant, but with neuroligical impairment. It's obvious, and has been evident since she was probably 1.5-2 years of age.
25And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High,...
--Dan 7
QuoteMany children who have a form of autism have not been diagnosed
Shocking, there are many many extraterrestials on the planet we just have not found them yet.
My niece is a real person with autism. The numbers may be in question, and the diagnosis and diagnostic criteria will likely be tweaked through the years as more is found out about it. But the phenomenon is real. She exists.
Quote from: jabcat on August 01, 2009, 07:44:41 PM
My niece is a real person with autism. The numbers may be in question, and the diagnosis and diagnostic criteria will likely be tweaked through the years as more is found out about it. But the phenomenon is real. She exists.
Not disputing that, disputing the things that are said in articles that jusrify the numbers.
I'm all for eliminating things, but misinformation does not help matters.
I agree. It's hard to know on a large scale.
If I'm on my game, I may believe about half what I read.
There are also more ultra sounds done now than before, who can say that is not a factor as well.
Could it also be a factor of our obsession to eliminate every negative thing in our lives through mans ability is being proven futile through unintended consequenses?
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 01, 2009, 08:18:02 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on August 01, 2009, 07:54:54 PM
Quote from: jabcat on August 01, 2009, 07:44:41 PM
My niece is a real person with autism. The numbers may be in question, and the diagnosis and diagnostic criteria will likely be tweaked through the years as more is found out about it. But the phenomenon is real. She exists.
Not disputing that, disputing the things that are said in articles that jusrify the numbers.
I'm all for eliminating things, but misinformation does not help matters.
Basicly you only trust articles that agree with the number you have in mind. Right?
I don't have a number in mind, now what?
The number you have in mind is always different from any article/link posted. I'm not gonna waste any more time on your petty little game.
This was my last reply to you until your stop your childish trolling.
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 01, 2009, 08:47:36 PM
The number you have in mind is always different from any article/link posted. I'm not gonna waste any more time on your petty little game.
This was my last reply to you until your stop your childish trolling.
*Mod cut. Inappropriate language/response.
I devoted time to study this issue because I believe that this is a moral crisis that must be addressed. If, as the evidence suggests, our public-health authorities knowingly allowed the pharmaceutical industry to poison an entire generation of American children, their actions arguably constitute one of the biggest scandals in the annals of American medicine. "The CDC is guilty of incompetence and gross negligence," says Mark Blaxill, vice president of Safe Minds, a nonprofit organization concerned about the role of mercury in medicines. "The damage caused by vaccine exposure is massive. It's bigger than asbestos, bigger than tobacco, bigger than anything you've ever seen."
--Deadly Immunity, IBID
Incompetence and gross negligence is the nicest thing you could say about them. I would use other words, myself.
For the record this troll simply points out things that are questionable.
You can throw videos and weblinks at me all day long, so what?
This thread is about conspiracy, not whether something is a problem. Is autism a problem? YES IT IS.
So do we hunt the cure or do we hunt the conspiracy and get nowhere? Hunting conspiracies will not solve the problem, never has. It only clouds the issue and makes people skeptical because there is always exaggeration when it comes to conspiracies, there are no exceptions that I have ever seen.
Hunting the specific cause and or cure can possibly fix autism and the conspiracy if there is one will either be exposed or it will be made useless because of that.
Other articles makes it this a huge plague that is coming upon america, perhaps it is. Perhaps we can learn something through this for the future.
If we are going to wait till there is a large number before we care about it and work hard at it then that is just as negligent as anyone elses accusation.
What if it was only 1 in one million? Do we then think the new world order is not at stake, do we think there is no conspiracy and go home and not give a crap any more.
Troll out...
Mod Note. Suggestion; if any of us doesn't like a particular topic, perhaps consider posting an opinion (or not) and then move on to another topic and let those that wish to discuss it continue to do so. Obviously, please refrain from inappropriate language.
Hey as long as people get away with being hateful by calling people blind and asleep and trolls, then you can ban me.
Please do so.
Ok, I have a question for you conspiracy buffs. Why would a Christian nation use a Hebrew name for their space program [nasa], name their vehicles to the moon after a greek sun god [apollo], and place a nazi smuggled in from germany in charge of it [von braun]?
Anyone else make rockets as a kid? They were dangerous, unreliable, impossible to predict, and always fell back to earth. I have read that escape velocity [from the earth's gravitational field] is 25,000 miles per hour [that's 34 times the speed of sound]. No way a 7 million pound rocket achieved that speed, huh? Nor would you ever find me sitting on top of that monster.
"conspiracy"
1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. A group of conspirators.
3. Law An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.
4. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design
Apollo is in the Bible, though.
11 Over them as king they have the angel of the Abyss (of the bottomless pit). In Hebrew his name is Abaddon [destruction], but in Greek he is called Apollyon [destroyer].
--Revelation 9:11
QuoteWhy would a Christian nation use a Hebrew name for their space program [nasa],
I think it's a great name. The letters have a obviously have a meaning in English plus the 'hidden' Hebrew meaning "there is an uplift" fits very well too.
Quote from: Molly on August 04, 2009, 05:46:01 PM
Anyone else make rockets as a kid? They were dangerous, unreliable, impossible to predict, and always fell back to earth. I have read that escape velocity [from the earth's gravitational field] is 25,000 miles per hour [that's 34 times the speed of sound]. No way a 7 million pound rocket achieved that speed, huh? Nor would you ever find me sitting on top of that monster.
Misconception
Planetary or lunar escape velocity is sometimes misunderstood to be the speed a powered vehicle (such as a rocket) must reach to leave orbit; however, this is not the case, as the quoted number is typically the surface escape velocity, and vehicles need never achieve that speed. This surface escape velocity is the speed required for an object to leave the planet if the object is simply projected from the surface of the planet and then left without any more kinetic energy input: in practice the vehicle's propulsion system will continue to provide energy after it has left the surface.
In fact a vehicle can leave the Earth's gravity at any speed. At higher altitudes, the local escape velocity is lower. But at the instant the propulsion stops, the vehicle can only escape if its speed is greater than or equal to the local escape velocity at that position. At sufficiently high altitudes this speed can approach 0.
As a rocket builder since I was a kid, the above is demonstrated simply by changing the propulsion device from a longer duration to a shorter duration with the same thrust.
The rocket does not begin the process to return to earth until the propulsion of the motor being used stops.
All you need is enough power and duration to lift the rocket at a speed to maintain it's stability.
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 04, 2009, 06:14:21 PM
QuoteWhy would a Christian nation use a Hebrew name for their space program [nasa],
I think it's a great name. The letters have a obviously have a meaning in English plus the 'hidden' Hebrew meaning "there is an uplift" fits very well too.
We will learn maybe after while that "all things are of GOD".....that's
a "big and HARD one" for me to swallow sometimes, to realize that
GOD made all things and that all things work "together" for our
good, especially after we been IN THE HOLY GHOST ........
Now, I said all that to preface this little bit that I am sharing. First,
I didn't know that Apollo meant "hidden one" in the Hebrew
words. Good to know that..........lots of truth is "hidden."
Once I went to Lake Hamilton in Ark., there was this woman up
speaking and she was telling all about she used to work at Nasa
etc. I sat there that day and wished she hurry and get thru with
her talking of her job and get on into the Word, when suddenly
the Spirit spoke to me: "LISTEN!"
So began her telling of the "first" man to reach the MOON. Put
his feet on it.
All of a sudden my mind went to the scripture in Rev. 12 where
it says, "and she had the MOON under her feet."
So, I saw the Spiritual Truth......and I remembered that "first in
the natural, then in the Spirit, and it made more sense to me.
Helped me see too that all things are of God.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on August 04, 2009, 06:30:37 PM
Quote from: Molly on August 04, 2009, 05:46:01 PM
Anyone else make rockets as a kid? They were dangerous, unreliable, impossible to predict, and always fell back to earth. I have read that escape velocity [from the earth's gravitational field] is 25,000 miles per hour [that's 34 times the speed of sound]. No way a 7 million pound rocket achieved that speed, huh? Nor would you ever find me sitting on top of that monster.
Misconception
Planetary or lunar escape velocity is sometimes misunderstood to be the speed a powered vehicle (such as a rocket) must reach to leave orbit; however, this is not the case, as the quoted number is typically the surface escape velocity, and vehicles need never achieve that speed. This surface escape velocity is the speed required for an object to leave the planet if the object is simply projected from the surface of the planet and then left without any more kinetic energy input: in practice the vehicle's propulsion system will continue to provide energy after it has left the surface.
In fact a vehicle can leave the Earth's gravity at any speed. At higher altitudes, the local escape velocity is lower. But at the instant the propulsion stops, the vehicle can only escape if its speed is greater than or equal to the local escape velocity at that position. At sufficiently high altitudes this speed can approach 0.
They claim it reached escape velocity.
STAGE 3: Last big push! During stage 3 of the flight, Apollo 11 now had a smaller mass of 1,897,000 kg. After reaching a maximum velocity of 10,835 m/s, Apollo 11 released the the thrid stage rocket booster and ignited the lunar spacecraft boosters.
LAST STAGE: To the moon! All that remained was the spacecraft which continued moving toward the moon at an approximate maximum velocity of 10,835 m/s.10,835 m/s equals 24,237.20 miles per hour.
For the record here I am not arguing any specific point concerning a conspiracy, I am providing what I feel is accurate information and others can draw their own conclusions.
At 43 miles high apollo 11 was going at a rate of 9300 feet per second which is approximatly 6340 miles per hour.
http://history.nasa.gov/ap11fj/01launch.htm
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on August 05, 2009, 01:13:54 AM
For the record here I am not arguing any specific point concerning a conspiracy, I am providing what I feel is accurate information and others can draw their own conclusions.
At 43 miles high apollo 11 was going at a rate of 9300 feet per second which is approximatly 6340 miles per hour.
http://history.nasa.gov/ap11fj/01launch.htm
Yes and at stage 3 they were going 24000 miles an hour, according to them.
Quote from: Molly on August 05, 2009, 01:49:07 AM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on August 05, 2009, 01:13:54 AM
For the record here I am not arguing any specific point concerning a conspiracy, I am providing what I feel is accurate information and others can draw their own conclusions.
At 43 miles high apollo 11 was going at a rate of 9300 feet per second which is approximatly 6340 miles per hour.
http://history.nasa.gov/ap11fj/01launch.htm
Yes and at stage 3 they were going 24000 miles an hour.
That link appears to list the maximum velocity at 25,586 feet per second which is 17,445 miles per hour.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on August 05, 2009, 01:57:27 AM
Quote from: Molly on August 05, 2009, 01:49:07 AM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on August 05, 2009, 01:13:54 AM
For the record here I am not arguing any specific point concerning a conspiracy, I am providing what I feel is accurate information and others can draw their own conclusions.
At 43 miles high apollo 11 was going at a rate of 9300 feet per second which is approximatly 6340 miles per hour.
http://history.nasa.gov/ap11fj/01launch.htm
Yes and at stage 3 they were going 24000 miles an hour.
That link appears to list the maximum velocity at 25,586 feet per second which is 17,445 miles per hour.
I don't know what link you are looking at. I didn't give you a link for the stage 3 because my computer crashed.
Here's another link.
The Apollo 11 spacecraft was launched from Cape Kennedy at 13:31:01 GMT on July 16, 1969. After 2 hr and 33 min in Earth orbit, the S-IVB rocket engine was reignited for acceleration of the spacecraft to the velocity required to escape Earth's gravity. Although at times the spacecraft reached speeds near 40,000 km/hr, the average speed was about 5500 km/hr . http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/galileo/sepo/education/nav/dist.html
40,000 km/hr equals
24854 m/h
I was mistaken, in the link I provided it did not say that the figure I wrote was the maximum velocity it was only the speed at one point in the mission.
Just my opinion here and nothing more, I think the ones who may say it is all a hoax is exploiting the misconception of the escape velocity.
If apollo 11 has to reach the escape velocity at a very low altitude then the thrust to weight ratio of apollo 11 would make that impossible. But apollo 11 did not have to do that. The maximum speed attained had nothing to do with escaping earths atmosphere.
But anyway, I'd love to be strapped on top of that thing. :)
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on August 05, 2009, 03:23:15 AM
I was mistaken, in the link I provided it did not say that the figure I wrote was the maximum velocity it was only the speed at one point in the mission.
Just my opinion here and nothing more, I think the ones who may say it is all a hoax is exploiting the misconception of the escape velocity.
If apollo 11 has to reach the escape velocity at a very low altitude then the thrust to weight ratio of apollo 11 would make that impossible. But apollo 11 did not have to do that. The maximum speed attained had nothing to do with escaping earths atmosphere.
But anyway, I'd love to be strapped on top of that thing. :)
well, yes, they would have to reach escape velocity at a low altitude. People forget how far away the moon is--about 238,000 miles. They entered stage three in earth orbit which would be around 200 miles above the earth if it did what the shuttle does today. The earth's gravitational force is about 6 times that of the moon, so the earth's gravitational field would be dominating for 5/6's of the way there. That's about 200,000 miles.
Even today, the space shuttle goes less than 300 miles above the earth. So, 238,000 miles above the earth 40 years ago versus around 200 miles above the earth today. Quite a difference! And, 40 years ago, they didn't have the computer on a chip! That's some rocket.
Military planning for possible H1N1 outbreak
July 29, 2009 -- Updated 0220 GMT (1020 HKT)
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. military wants to establish regional teams of military personnel to assist civilian authorities in the event of a significant outbreak of the H1N1 virus this fall, according to Defense Department officials.
The proposal is awaiting final approval from Defense Secretary Robert Gates.
The officials would not be identified because the proposal from U.S. Northern Command's Gen. Victor Renuart has not been approved by the secretary.
The plan calls for military task forces to work in conjunction with the Federal Emergency Management Agency. There is no final decision on how the military effort would be manned, but one source said it would likely include personnel from all branches of the military.
It has yet to be determined how many troops would be needed and whether they would come from the active duty or the National Guard and Reserve forces.
Civilian authorities would lead any relief efforts in the event of a major outbreak, the official said. The military, as they would for a natural disaster or other significant emergency situation, could provide support and fulfill any tasks that civilian authorities could not, such as air transport or testing of large numbers of viral samples from infected patients.
As a first step, Gates is being asked to sign a so-called "execution order" that would authorize the military to begin to conduct the detailed planning to execute the proposed plan.
Orders to deploy actual forces would be reviewed later, depending on how much of a health threat the flu poses this fall, the officials said.
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/07/28/military.swine.flu/
These people haven't heard of Posse Comitatus?
The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385) passed on June 18, 1878, after the end of Reconstruction, with the intention (in concert with the Insurrection Act of 1807) of substantially limiting the powers of the federal government to use the military for law enforcement. The Act prohibits most members of the federal uniformed services (today the Army, Air Force, and State National Guard forces when such are called into federal service) from exercising nominally state law enforcement, police, or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order" on non-federal property (states and their counties and municipal divisions) within the United States.
The statute generally prohibits federal military personnel and units of the National Guard under federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States, except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or Congress.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act
Here the hype seems to cool down a bit.
Still several SwinFlu articles a day but no longer hinting the flu is extremely dangerous.
Just some tips like wash hands often. Let fresh air in your house. Etc.
And for those who have the symptoms often 'take a good rest' sorta advise is given.
Of course still some doom and gloom articles. But as said the the temp is going down :winkgrin:
A couple I know in their early 40's went to Forida when they got back home they were sick with swine flu, the doctor has them on steroids and other meds.
I have no clue how bad the flu will be, but my husband thinks the government is responsible. :sigh:
How bad it will be....
Big pharma surely wants to make it sound almosts deadly to sell their stuff.
According to other articles it's no more dangerous than the usual flu.
2 to 10 days and it's gone.
What makes this flu different is that it is of a totally new type.
So our immume system will get a bit more busy. And possibly more people will get the this flu.
Yesterday big headlines here: First dead by Swine Flu.
Then read the article and the story changes. The person alreday was terminally ill before he got the flu. Seems many of the reported death were already very ill people.
Then even a mild flu can be the final blow. But to report that as caused by the flu....
It should be noted that these unnaturally evolved, man-made viruses are far less genetically stable. They are more fragile. They mutate more rapidly than naturally evolved viruses.
--Dr. Len Horowitz, In Lies We Trust, at video.google.com
From The Sunday Times
January 6, 2008
For sale: West's deadly nuclear secrets
Insight: Chris Gourlay, Jonathan Calvert, Joe Lauria
A WHISTLEBLOWER has made a series of extraordinary claims about how corrupt government officials allowed Pakistan and other states to steal nuclear weapons secrets.
Sibel Edmonds, a 37-year-old former Turkish language translator for the FBI, listened into hundreds of sensitive intercepted conversations while based at the agency's Washington field office.
She approached The Sunday Times last month after reading about an Al-Qaeda terrorist who had revealed his role in training some of the 9/11 hijackers while he was in Turkey.
Edmonds described how foreign intelligence agents had enlisted the support of US officials to acquire a network of moles in sensitive military and nuclear institutions.
Among the hours of covert tape recordings, she says she heard evidence that one well-known senior official in the US State Department was being paid by Turkish agents in Washington who were selling the information on to black market buyers, including Pakistan.
The name of the official – who has held a series of top government posts – is known to The Sunday Times. He strongly denies the claims.
However, Edmonds said: "He was aiding foreign operatives against US interests by passing them highly classified information, not only from the State Department but also from the Pentagon, in exchange for money, position and political objectives."
She claims that the FBI was also gathering evidence against senior Pentagon officials – including household names – who were aiding foreign agents.
"If you made public all the information that the FBI have on this case, you will see very high-level people going through criminal trials," she said.
Her story shows just how much the West was infiltrated by foreign states seeking nuclear secrets. It illustrates how western government officials turned a blind eye to, or were even helping, countries such as Pakistan acquire bomb technology.
The wider nuclear network has been monitored for many years by a joint Anglo-American intelligence effort. But rather than shut it down, investigations by law enforcement bodies such as the FBI and Britain's Revenue & Customs have been aborted to preserve diplomatic relations.
Edmonds, a fluent speaker of Turkish and Farsi, was recruited by the FBI in the aftermath of the September 11 attacks. Her previous claims about incompetence inside the FBI have been well documented in America.
She has given evidence to closed sessions of Congress and the 9/11 commission, but many of the key points of her testimony have remained secret. She has now decided to divulge some of that information after becoming disillusioned with the US authorities' failure to act.
One of Edmonds's main roles in the FBI was to translate thousands of hours of conversations by Turkish diplomatic and political targets that had been covertly recorded by the agency.
A backlog of tapes had built up, dating back to 1997, which were needed for an FBI investigation into links between the Turks and Pakistani, Israeli and US targets. Before she left the FBI in 2002 she heard evidence that pointed to money laundering, drug imports and attempts to acquire nuclear and conventional weapons technology.
"What I found was damning," she said. "While the FBI was investigating, several arms of the government were shielding what was going on."
The Turks and Israelis had planted "moles" in military and academic institutions which handled nuclear technology. Edmonds says there were several transactions of nuclear material every month, with the Pakistanis being among the eventual buyers. "The network appeared to be obtaining information from every nuclear agency in the United States," she said.
They were helped, she says, by the high-ranking State Department official who provided some of their moles – mainly PhD students – with security clearance to work in sensitive nuclear research facilities. These included the Los Alamos nuclear laboratory in New Mexico, which is responsible for the security of the US nuclear deterrent.
In one conversation Edmonds heard the official arranging to pick up a $15,000 cash bribe. The package was to be dropped off at an agreed location by someone in the Turkish diplomatic community who was working for the network.
The Turks, she says, often acted as a conduit for the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), Pakistan's spy agency, because they were less likely to attract suspicion. Venues such as the American Turkish Council in Washington were used to drop off the cash, which was picked up by the official.
Edmonds said: "I heard at least three transactions like this over a period of 2½ years. There are almost certainly more."
The Pakistani operation was led by General Mahmoud Ahmad, then the ISI chief.
Intercepted communications showed Ahmad and his colleagues stationed in Washington were in constant contact with attachés in the Turkish embassy.
Intelligence analysts say that members of the ISI were close to Al-Qaeda before and after 9/11. Indeed, Ahmad was accused of sanctioning a $100,000 wire payment to Mohammed Atta, one of the 9/11 hijackers, immediately before the attacks.
The results of the espionage were almost certainly passed to Abdul Qadeer Khan, the Pakistani nuclear scientist.
Khan was close to Ahmad and the ISI. While running Pakistan's nuclear programme, he became a millionaire by selling atomic secrets to Libya, Iran and North Korea. He also used a network of companies in America and Britain to obtain components for a nuclear programme.
Khan caused an alert among western intelligence agencies when his aides met Osama Bin Laden. "We were aware of contact between A Q Khan's people and Al-Qaeda," a former CIA officer said last week. "There was absolute panic when we initially discovered this, but it kind of panned out in the end."
It is likely that the nuclear secrets stolen from the United States would have been sold to a number of rogue states by Khan.
Edmonds was later to see the scope of the Pakistani connections when it was revealed that one of her fellow translators at the FBI was the daughter of a Pakistani embassy official who worked for Ahmad. The translator was given top secret clearance despite protests from FBI investigators.
Edmonds says packages containing nuclear secrets were delivered by Turkish operatives, using their cover as members of the diplomatic and military community, to contacts at the Pakistani embassy in Washington.
Following 9/11, a number of the foreign operatives were taken in for questioning by the FBI on suspicion that they knew about or somehow aided the attacks.
Edmonds said the State Department official once again proved useful. "A primary target would call the official and point to names on the list and say, 'We need to get them out of the US because we can't afford for them to spill the beans'," she said. "The official said that he would 'take care of it'."
The four suspects on the list were released from interrogation and extradited.
Edmonds also claims that a number of senior officials in the Pentagon had helped Israeli and Turkish agents.
"The people provided lists of potential moles from Pentagon-related institutions who had access to databases concerning this information," she said.
"The handlers, who were part of the diplomatic community, would then try to recruit those people to become moles for the network. The lists contained all their 'hooking points', which could be financial or sexual pressure points, their exact job in the Pentagon and what stuff they had access to."
One of the Pentagon figures under investigation was Lawrence Franklin, a former Pentagon analyst, who was jailed in 2006 for passing US defence information to lobbyists and sharing classified information with an Israeli diplomat.
"He was one of the top people providing information and packages during 2000 and 2001," she said.
Once acquired, the nuclear secrets could have gone anywhere. The FBI monitored Turkish diplomats who were selling copies of the information to the highest bidder.
Edmonds said: "Certain greedy Turkish operators would make copies of the material and look around for buyers. They had agents who would find potential buyers."
In summer 2000, Edmonds says the FBI monitored one of the agents as he met two Saudi Arabian businessmen in Detroit to sell nuclear information that had been stolen from an air force base in Alabama. She overheard the agent saying: "We have a package and we're going to sell it for $250,000."
Edmonds's employment with the FBI lasted for just six months. In March 2002 she was dismissed after accusing a colleague of covering up illicit activity involving Turkish nationals.
She has always claimed that she was victimised for being outspoken and was vindicated by an Office of the Inspector General review of her case three years later. It found that one of the contributory reasons for her sacking was that she had made valid complaints.
The US attorney-general has imposed a state secrets privilege order on her, which prevents her revealing more details of the FBI's methods and current investigations.
Her allegations were heard in a closed session of Congress, but no action has been taken and she continues to campaign for a public hearing.
She was able to discuss the case with The Sunday Times because, by the end of January 2002, the justice department had shut down the programme.
The senior official in the State Department no longer works there. Last week he denied all of Edmonds's allegations: "If you are calling me to say somebody said that I took money, that's outrageous . . . I do not have anything to say about such stupid ridiculous things as this."
In researching this article, The Sunday Times has talked to two FBI officers (one serving, one former) and two former CIA sources who worked on nuclear proliferation. While none was aware of specific allegations against officials she names, they did provide overlapping corroboration of Edmonds's story.
One of the CIA sources confirmed that the Turks had acquired nuclear secrets from the United States and shared the information with Pakistan and Israel. "We have no indication that Turkey has its own nuclear ambitions. But the Turks are traders. To my knowledge they became big players in the late 1990s," the source said.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article3137695.ece
I always wondered why here we have some noobs entering the political arena and a few years later they run the show.
Must be the superior US education....
http://exchanges.state.gov/ivlp/alumni.html
Quote from: Molly on August 05, 2009, 10:46:08 AM
well, yes, they would have to reach escape velocity at a low altitude. People forget how far away the moon is--about 238,000 miles.
My reference to a low altitude was in comparison to the earths atmosphere, sorry for thaT misunderstanding.
The rocket never had to reach 24,000 mph to escape earths gravity, that is a fact. The Maximum speed the rocket attained never had anything to do with what speed was required of the rocket to escape earth. The actual escape velocity has to do with the speed that is necessary to maintain the rockets stability in a certain direction.
Again, just clarifying those things in case the consiracy buffs think that space flight is a hoax based upon the misunderstanding of a powered rocket in comparison to speed required of an unpowered object to escape earths gravity.
in otherwords the misunderstanding that an object has to reach 24,000 + mph to escape earths gravity is based on the speed of an object that would be launched by a catapult, rather than an object that maintained power on it's own until it escaped.
Sibel Edmonds Documentary--Kill the Messenger
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6063340745569143497&ei=2kiASpjuJsKllQf5-M2PCg&q=kill+the+messenger
Matthew 10:16
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
Quote from: Paulin otherwords the misunderstanding that an object has to reach 24,000 + mph to escape earths gravity is based on the speed of an object that would be launched by a catapult, rather than an object that maintained power on it's own until it escaped.
Oh, really? Why don't you explain to me how a 1969 rocket could reach a speed of 32 times the speed of sound [24,576 mph], how it could remain intact under such a speed, how it could carry enough fuel to travel 200,000 miles against the force of the earth's gravity? And, when you are done answering that, I have a lot of other questions for you.
After all, it's only rocket science. Even a child can do it.
Quote from: Molly on August 10, 2009, 08:35:41 PM
Quote from: Paulin otherwords the misunderstanding that an object has to reach 24,000 + mph to escape earths gravity is based on the speed of an object that would be launched by a catapult, rather than an object that maintained power on it's own until it escaped.
Oh, really? Why don't you explain to me how a 1969 rocket could reach a speed of 32 times the speed of sound [24,576 mph], how it could remain intact under such a speed, how it could carry enough fuel to travel 200,000 miles against the force of the earth's gravity? And, when you are done answering that, I have a lot of other questions for you.
After all, it's only rocket science. Even a child can do it.
The same forces in space are not exerted on the rocket like they are in earths atmosphere. Those rockets never attained those speeds within earths atmosphere. So those speeds in space would not affect the rocket the same as they would directly in the earths atmosphere.
The further away a rockets gets from earth the less gravitional force there is on the object.
QuoteAfter all, it's only rocket science. Even a child can do it.
There are some very bright children in the world. Many of them understand more than people give them credit for.
QuoteThe same forces in space are not exerted on the rocket like they are in earths atmosphere. Those rockets never attained those speeds within earths atmosphere. So those speeds in space would not affect the rocket the same as they would directly in the earths atmosphere.
The further away a rockets gets from earth the less gravitional force there is on the object.
Not quite sure what you consider the earth's atmosphere--
As for the gravitational force decreasing, it is true that the force is inversely proportional to the distance. But, let's face it, 238,000 miles is still a very long distance, and the gravitational force of the big ball (earth) is still enough at that distance to keep the little ball (moon) spinning around it. But no force is a problem for that rocket!
I think such bland statements is what has gotten us into trouble in the first place. I think even 17,000 mph in low earth orbit is suspect. Do you think even that is a reasonable speed with that technology? But, Americans have never had much respect for numbers--what's a few trillion more or less.
The temperature of the Earth's atmosphere varies with altitude; the mathematical relationship between temperature and altitude varies among five different atmospheric layers (ordered highest to lowest, the ionosphere is part of the thermosphere):
Exosphere
From 500–1,000 km (310–620 mi; 1,600,000–3,300,000 ft) up to 10,000 km (6,200 mi; 33,000,000 ft), contain free-moving particles that may migrate into and out of the magnetosphere or the solar wind.
Exobase
Also known as the 'critical level', it is the lower boundary of the exosphere.
Ionosphere
The part of the atmosphere that is ionized by solar radiation stretches from 50 to 1,000 km (31 to 620 mi; 160,000 to 3,300,000 ft) and typically overlaps both the exosphere and the thermosphere. It plays an important part in atmospheric electricity and forms the inner edge of the magnetosphere. Because of its charged particles, it has practical importance because it influences, for example, radio propagation on the Earth. It is responsible for auroras.
Thermopause
The boundary above the thermosphere, it varies in height from 500–1,000 km (310–620 mi; 1,600,000–3,300,000 ft).
Thermosphere
From 80–85 km (50–53 mi; 260,000–280,000 ft) to over 640 km (400 mi; 2,100,000 ft), temperature increasing with height. The temperature of this layer can rise to 1,500 °C (2,730 °F). The International Space Station orbits in this layer, between 320 and 380 km (200 and 240 mi).
Mesopause
The temperature minimum at the boundary between the thermosphere and the mesosphere. It is the coldest place on Earth, with a temperature of −100 °C (−148.0 °F; 173.1 K).
Mesosphere
From the Greek word "μέσος" meaning middle. The mesosphere extends from about 50 km (31 mi; 160,000 ft) to the range of 80–85 km (50–53 mi; 260,000–280,000 ft). Temperature decreases with height, reaching −100 °C (−148.0 °F; 173.1 K) in the upper mesosphere. This is also where most meteors burn up when entering the atmosphere.
Stratopause
The boundary between the mesosphere and the stratosphere, typically 50 to 55 km (31 to 34 mi; 160,000 to 180,000 ft). The pressure here is 1/1000th sea level.
Stratosphere
From the Latin word "stratus" meaning spreading out. The stratosphere extends from the troposphere's 7–17 km (4.3–11 mi; 23,000–56,000 ft) range to about 51 km (32 mi; 170,000 ft). Temperature increases with height. The stratosphere contains the ozone layer, the part of the Earth's atmosphere which contains relatively high concentrations of ozone. "Relatively high" means a few parts per million—much higher than the concentrations in the lower atmosphere but still small compared to the main components of the atmosphere. It is mainly located in the lower portion of the stratosphere from approximately 15–35 km (9.3–22 mi; 49,000–110,000 ft) above Earth's surface, though the thickness varies seasonally and geographically.
Ozone Layer
Though part of the Stratosphere, the ozone layer is considered as a layer of the Earth's atmosphere in itself because its physical and chemical composition is far different from the Stratosphere. Ozone (O3) in the Earth's stratosphere is created by ultraviolet light striking oxygen molecules containing two oxygen atoms (O2), splitting them into individual oxygen atoms (atomic oxygen); the atomic oxygen then combines with unbroken O2 to create O3. O3 is unstable (although, in the stratosphere, long-lived) and when ultraviolet light hits ozone it splits into a molecule of O2 and an atom of atomic oxygen, a continuing process called the ozone-oxygen cycle. This occurs in the ozone layer, the region from about 10 to 50 km (33,000 to 160,000 ft) above Earth's surface. About 90% of the ozone in our atmosphere is contained in the stratosphere. Ozone concentrations are greatest between about 20 and 40 km (66,000 and 130,000 ft), where they range from about 2 to 8 parts per million.
Tropopause
The boundary between the stratosphere and troposphere.
Troposphere
From the Greek word "τρέπω" meaning to turn or change. The troposphere is the lowest layer of the atmosphere; it begins at the surface and extends to between 7 km (23,000 ft) at the poles and 17 km (56,000 ft) at the equator, with some variation due to weather factors. The troposphere has a great deal of vertical mixing because of solar heating at the area. This heating makes air masses less dense so they rise. When an air mass rises, the pressure upon it decreases so it expands, doing work against the opposing pressure of the surrounding air. To do work is to expend energy, so the temperature of the air mass decreases. As the temperature decreases, water vapor in the air mass may condense or solidify, releasing latent heat that further uplifts the air mass. This process determines the maximum rate of decline of temperature with height, called the adiabatic lapse rate. The troposphere contains roughly 80% of the total mass of the atmosphere. Fifty percent of the total mass of the atmosphere is located in the lower 5.6 km (18,000 ft) of the troposphere.
The average temperature of the atmosphere at the surface of Earth is 14 °C (57 °F; 287 K)[1] or 15 °C (59 °F; 288 K)[2], depending on the reference.[3] [4][5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_atmosphere
Quote from: Molly on August 10, 2009, 10:45:33 PM
Not quite sure what you consider the earth's atmosphere--
The earths atmosphere gets less dense the higher you go so it will react less against an object as you get higher up.
QuoteAs for the gravitational force decreasing, it is true that the force is inversely proportional to the distance. But, let's face it, 238,000 miles is still a very long distance, and the gravitational force of the big ball (earth) is still enough at that distance to keep the little ball (moon) spinning around it. But no force is a problem for that rocket!
The moon has a much greater mass than a rocket which increases it's own gravitational pull in comparison to the mass of the rocket. That coupled with the manner in which the rocket is propelled (thrust) in relationship to its mass is a factor. As for the earth keeping the moon at bay, that is not entirely true, the moon is moving further away from the earth.
QuoteI think such bland statements is what has gotten us into trouble in the first place. I think even 17,000 mph in low earth orbit is suspect. Do you think even that is a reasonable speed with that technology? But, Americans have never had much respect for numbers--what's a few trillion more or less.
I have been generalizing and in this thread in this context will not apologize for it as the generalizations are enough to cause question of any evidence a hoax conclusion actually provides.
I have already shown that it appears the hoax theories exploit the misunderstanding of escape velocity, anything beyond that is biased by that same misunderstanding, but you are free to believe what you want.