Miracles at the Temple

[Molly]

Phooey on that.  It's supernatural, I tell you.

Everything points to the Temple being a troop of people.

So there never was a Temple. Just a group of people standing on a hill... :mshock:

The Temple was always a shadow of the real thing.


Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

[WhiteWings]

Yeah, but don't you think the Jews are planing a real Temple?

[Molly]

Yeah, but don't you think the Jews are planing a real Temple?

I guess...until they meet the real thing...


Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.


Revelation 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

[Beloved Servant]

"I guess...until they meet the real thing..."


lol, that's a classic Molly!
lol

[Beloved Servant]

God surrounded that Temple mount with Muslims and put a mosque on top of the very thing for good reason.
There will never be another temple there.

We are His Temple.

:2c:

[Beloved Servant]

Oddly enough, I can't seem to find any description of the materials it is made from, just lots of passages of how every square inch is measured.

The Jews have more than the Tanach (our OT). I'm sure they have very detailed descriptions.
Lots of things where gold plated for example.

Phooey on that.  It's supernatural, I tell you.

Everything points to the Temple being a troop of people.

And, the Levite priests will be watching it all from the outside looking in.



12Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

13He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

--Rev 3

A breath of fresh air accompanied with a lucid moment.

[WhiteWings]

God surrounded that Temple mount with Muslims and put a mosque on top of the very thing

Don't be so sure of that....

[Beloved Servant]

Molly,

"A breath of fresh air accompanied with a lucid moment."

That is meant with the utmost good intention and not to imply at anytime, otherwise!    :HeartThrob:

An overall statement it is; about the overall condition of things.

[micah7:9]

God surrounded that Temple mount with Muslims and put a mosque on top of the very thing for good reason.
There will never be another temple there.

We are His Temple.

:2c:

:thumbsup:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: They may never get it built, but not for lack of trying. They would have already started if not for that mosque and the fact it would bring WW3 to destroy it, something they very much don't want to do, but would love to destroy the mosque. Believe me, if they are attacked it's probably second on their hit list, right after whatever direction the attack came from.

The Muslims know this, they are just deciding who the "sacrificial" nation is to attack first. Once the mosque is destroyed, their religious zealots in the other countries will have more of a "reason" to get involved and attack. Bad news for Europe now, since they have allowed so many of them immigration. They are a veritable trojan horse. Blessings...

[WhiteWings]

But what if the real place of the Temple is not at that place.....?
(there are reasons to believe that)

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Well, they think it is, the stones are there; the Muslims think it is, that's why they built theirs over it.....

[WhiteWings]

So you deny?
^KJVMat 24:1-2 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
^KJVMar 13:1-2 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

That would mean Jesus was wrong because there are 10000 (so called) remaining stones counted.

Another thing is how could Jesus/centurion see the temple curtan (east) if the temple was as the place of the mosque?

Also consider the "The Camp" thread which is closely connected

That are just a few parts of the puzzle. But that puzzle requires looking into a lot of things that people on TM have zero interest in. So I won't bother you with it and just say: Don't be so sure :winkgrin:

[thinktank]

One thing though, when this temple gets built it doesn't mean the antichrist will appear soon. For before that the city will be attacked from the north, the walls destroyed and streets, possibly the temple gets destroyed again. During this time the Israelis call upon the name of Jesus to be saved from the army, then God will destroy the army, then there will be a time of peace and then after a while, messiah will be renounced and Israel turns into mystery babylon, then the abomination appears.

[Cardinal]

So you deny?
^KJVMat 24:1-2 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
^KJVMar 13:1-2 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

That would mean Jesus was wrong because there are 10000 (so called) remaining stones counted.

Another thing is how could Jesus/centurion see the temple curtan (east) if the temple was as the place of the mosque?

Also consider the "The Camp" thread which is closely connected

That are just a few parts of the puzzle. But that puzzle requires looking into a lot of things that people on TM have zero interest in. So I won't bother you with it and just say: Don't be so sure :winkgrin:

:cloud9: I'm not denying......I haven't researched it. If you have, then share.... :thumbsup:

[Molly]

Another thing is how could Jesus/centurion see the temple curtan (east) if the temple was as the place of the mosque?

Did they see it?   Or is it just related that it happened?  I thought the curtain was rent when Jesus died.  It would have happened inside the Temple, so no one outside would have seen it.

That are just a few parts of the puzzle. But that puzzle requires looking into a lot of things that people on TM have zero interest in. So I won't bother you with it and just say: Don't be so sure

I love puzzles.  Tell us.

If they don't want to build it there, why are they always kissing that wall?

[thinktank]

God surrounded that Temple mount with Muslims and put a mosque on top of the very thing for good reason.
There will never be another temple there.

We are His Temple.

:2c:

Yes but the jews have a different mindset, they are still waiting for their messiah. According to prophecy they will rebuild the temple for the messiah, which has not been done and is not being done. So to me if they build a temple perhaps the mosque will be destroyed by invading armies, which is prophesied in Daniel, that the walls will be rebuilt and streets.

[WhiteWings]

Another thing is how could Jesus/centurion see the temple curtan (east) if the temple was as the place of the mosque?

Did they see it?   Or is it just related that it happened?  I thought the curtain was rent when Jesus died.  It would have happened inside the Temple, so no one outside would have seen it.

Those curtains where 82x30 feet.
They where hanging in a "portal' with doors.
Facing east (east gate of Eden where Adam and Eve where kicked out.

^KJVMat 27:51-54 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

That are just a few parts of the puzzle. But that puzzle requires looking into a lot of things that people on TM have zero interest in. So I won't bother you with it and just say: Don't be so sure

I love puzzles.  Tell us

.The camp was 2000 cubits radius from a center point in the Temple. Just outside that radius was the 3rd altar on which the Red Heifer (+David +Abrahams son) was sacrificed. Jesus was killed (stoned!) there.

So there is a line of sight (with requiremenst of hight) And a 2000 cubit distance. Temple is west of the crucifixion spot. Plus Molly the valley of Kidron. Your beloved waterworks :winkgrin: This and historical accounts that for example state that the Jews did 2 attempts in the 4th centurie to rebuild theTemple. But not at the dome.

If they don't want to build it there, why are they always kissing that wall?

The wall of Fort Antonia. The dome is build on the foundation of the Roman fortress.
The Rock in the dome is: ^KJVJoh 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.

There are both Muslim and Christian inscription on the dome mosque. There is so much more. But most not in the Bible.
I'm just halfway this stuff. So not all is exactly clear yet.

PS the whole Temple:
"The word temple (heiron, lit., sacred place) signifies the whole compass of the sacred enclosure, with its porticos, courts, and other subordinate buildings; and should be carefully distinguished from the other word, naos, also rendered temple, which means the temple itself — the "Holy Place" and the "Holy of Holies." When we read, for instance, of Christ teaching in the temple (heiron) we must refer it to one of the temple-porches [outer colonnades]. So it is from the heiron, the court of the Gentiles, that Christ expels the money-changers and cattle-merchants"( Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament, Vol. I., p.50).

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: You're really digging deep aren't you WW? PTL  :thumbsup:

[WhiteWings]

(http://www.askelm.com/images/templebig.jpg)

Left half is the Jewish Temple complex. Highest point in that section is the actual Temple. The red bit is the curtain.
The left half is Fort Antonia. That wher Pilate was at that time. The center building is a Roma temple.
Just left of that temple two parallel buildings with red roofs.
Between those building was the rock/pavement Jesus was standing on when being Judged by Pilate.
And there is the dome now.

Listen

Almost forgot  :2c:

[Molly]

Those curtains where 82x30 feet.
They where hanging is a "portal' with doors.
Facing east (east gate of Eden where Adam and Eve where kicked out.

So this is symbolic of the barrier to the entrance to Eden.  The curtains have  cherubim on them, don't they? -- Equating the Most Holy Place with the garden of Eden--the place where Adam walked with God.


24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

--Gen 3

The camp was 2000 cubits radius from a center point in the Temple. Just outside that radius was the 3rd altar on which the Red Heifer (+David +Abrahams son) was sacrificed. Jesus was killed (stoned!) there.

That would make sense that Jesus was killed outside the camp as were the sacrificial animals which are a shadow of what was to come.  So are you saying that we have to measure out 2000 cubits from the site of the crucifixion  to find the center for the new Temple?

Here's an interesting article I just found--which locates that spot--


Expanded Internet Edition - April 1, 1992


Updated Information
on the Crucifixion of Jesus

by Ernest L. Martin, Ph.D., 1992


Since the publication of my book "Secrets of Golgotha" in the Spring of 1988, there has been a steady flow of new information which shows that the crucifixion of Jesus took place on the Mount of Olives. Some of the evidence has come from other scholars who have seen the fact that Jesus was executed somewhere near the summit of Olivet. A great deal has also been arrived at by further research of my own. What is emerging is real evidence that the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and the Garden Tomb located in Jerusalem are nowhere near the proper spot where the actual crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus took place. This fact has revolutionary consequences associated with it. This is because the Roman Catholic Church, the Greek Orthodox Church, the Armenian Orthodox churches for the past 1660 years have generally accepted the area associated with the Church of the Holy Sepulchre as the crucifixion site. Even classical historians have thought the site has most of the historical credentials to justify its acceptance by the scholarly world. But this new evidence shows that the Constantinian Church is thoroughly wrong. The Bible and history plainly establish that the Mount of Olives is the real place of the crucifixion. This new Historical Report has further evidence to prove this conclusion.

But my book shows from the New Testament and early Jewish records that the southern summit of the Mount of Olives near the altar "without the sanctuary" where the Red Heifer was burnt to ashes (Ezekiel 43:21) has far greater credentials for being the site.

The first point to notice is that the burning of the Red Heifer and Jesus' crucifixion were symbolically connected in a precise way by Christians who lived during the period of Herod's Temple. The author of the Book of Hebrews (about AD. 61) stated that Jesus was a 'sin offering" for the world and that his sin-atoning death epitomized the symbolic role of all the sin offerings sacrificed at the Temple (Hebrews 10:8-14). The major sin offerings were burnt to ashes at an altar region east of the Temple near the top of the Mount of Olives. Besides that, all of the ashes of the other sacrifices offered at the Altar of Burnt Offering in the Temple itself were deposited at the same altar east of the Temple on Olivet (Leviticus 4:12:6:11). The author of Hebrews also connected the ashes of the Red Heifer (which were mixed with pure spring water) with the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus which occurred at the precise time of his crucifixion (9:13,14). And particularly note this point. In the Letter of Barnabas (written by a person from Jerusalem about A.D.90), the author stated that the Red Heifer in Christian circles was reckoned as Jesus. "The calf is Jesus: the sinful men offering it are those who led him to the slaughter (8:2)." Remarkably, very few Christian historians have asked: "Where was this Red Heifer altar?"

As explained in my book "Secrets of Golgotha," the early Jewish records found in the Mishnah plainly state that the Red Heifer altar was located directly east of the Temple that existed in Jesus' time and that it was just shy of the summit of the Mount of Olives (Middoth 1:3; 2:4; Yoma 7:2; along with the Talmud in Yoma 68a and Zebahim 105b). And here we find the author of the Letter of Barnabas directly stating that "the calf (heifer] is Jesus" and that "the sinful men offering it are those who led him [Jesusl to the slaughter" (8:2). It is well known in Jewish circles that the priests did indeed lead the heifer from the Temple on Mount Moriah eastward across a double tiered arched bridge (called the Bridge of the Red Heifer) to an altar just outside the camp near the summit of Olivet. This is where they sacrificed and burnt to ashes the Red Heifer. This first century identification of Jesus with the Red Heifer is clear proof that early Jewish Christians connected the sacrifice of the heifer on the summit of Olivet with the death of Jesus which took place in the same vicinity. But no sacrifices of the Temple were ever connected with the western area of the "Holy Sepulchre."
 


As an example, note a further geographical reference in the Book of Hebrews associating the sin offerings of the Temple with the crucifixion of Jesus. The author stated that Jesus carried his reproach (the cross-piece for his crucifixion) to an altar located "outside the gate," even "outside the camp" (Hebrews 13:10-14). There was the literal altar on Olivet that matches the author's illustration, Indeed, in this case the author used the Tabernacle of Moses as his standard of reference (the Jewish authorities did the same thing in the Mishnah about a century later). It is important to note that the Tabernacle only had eastern gates. By using the Tabernacle as a standard, this points to the "gate" through which Jesus went to his crucifixion as being the east gate in the outer wall surrounding the Temple. Interestingly, this eastern gate was the same gate through which the major sin offerings and the Red Heifer were taken to Olivet. The roadway through that eastern gate was designed specifically by the Jewish authorities to lead directly to the altar "outside the camp" where the Red Heifer was burnt to ashes. Early Jewish Christians were keenly aware of these ritualistic connections of the sin offerings with the death of Jesus. Geographically, these historical and biblical texts about his crucifixion direct us to Olivet.

Furthermore, this Red Heifer altar was located just "outside the camp" which was at least 2000 cubits east of the Hall of the Sanhedrin then situated at the Chamber of Hewn Stones in the Temple, located on the left side of the Altar of Burnt Offering (Middoth 5:4; Sanhedrin 11:2; Yoma 25a). Indeed, just before Jesus was crucified, he was actually condemned to be executed while he stood before the Sanhedrin in the Chamber of Hewn Stones on the Temple Mount (see Shabbath l5a and Rosh ha-Shanah 31a,b). Since it was then the Passover season, the chief priest (the president of the Sanhedrin who was Caiaphas) and his deputy (Annas, the Sagan) were required to be resident in their quarters within the precincts of the Temple. They were then living in their official "houses" which were located in the Temple compound itself (Middoth 5:4; Encyclopaedia Judaica iii.991). This is when the top priestly authorities left their own private houses (no doubt located on the aristocratic southwest hill of Jerusalem) and they took up residence within the Temple itself.

There were special times in the Jewish ecclesiastical year when residence within the Temple was essential for the High Priest and his deputy. For the seven days prior to offering the Red Heifer, the High Priest had to stay in his Temple "house" called the "House of Stone" (Parah 3:1). For the seven days prior to the Day of Atonement the High Priest had to reside within his "house" on the Temple Mount (Yoma 1:1). Though Josephus did not mention the Temple residency of the priests, he did state that such attendance at the Temple was a requirement for weekly Sabbaths, new moons and annual festivals (War V.230). Since Jesus was judged by the Jewish authorities at the Passover season, Caiaphas and Annas were not at their private homes during Jesus' interrogation. Jesus was judged by the chief priests and condemned by the Sanhedrin while all parties were within the Temple enclosure. From the Christian point of view, this meant that Jesus was judged to die in his own Father's House. He was sentenced to die "in the presence of God" who symbolically dwelt in the Holy of Holies.

After his judgment by the Sanhedrin on the Temple Mount, Jesus was then taken a short distance to the northwest part of the Temple courtyard where there was a stairway that led to Fort Antonia where Pilate was amongst his troops. Being at Antonia during Passover provided Pilate with a personal command over his resident army in order to properly control the festival crowds in Jerusalem, and especially those within the Temple precincts. After interrogating Jesus, Pilate washed his hands of the matter. Jesus was then led out of Fort Antonia and through the east gate of the Temple (which was also the east gate of Jerusalem) and taken over the two tiered arched bridge of the Kidron Valley to the summit of Olivet near where the Red Heifer was sacrificed -- a prominent area in Jerusalem.

This eastern area where Jesus was executed was famous for another reason. Jesus was actually crucified in the official area of Jerusalem that was designed for the execution of criminals and in the region that the Jewish authorities believed was the symbolic place where the whole world would one day be judged by God. This was the area directly east of the Temple but located "outside the camp" of Israel (Numbers 15:35). The limits of the camp were determined in the time of Jesus to be a radius of 2000 cubits (near 3000 feet) from the Court of the Sanhedrin in the Temple (Rosh ha-Shanah 2:5, see also Sanhedrin 1:5 and Shebuoth 2:2 for the authority of the Jewish Supreme Court to set the limits of the camp). This factor alone disqualifies the present sites of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and the Garden Tomb from being the place of Jesus' crucifixion (even though outside the walls) because both sites were within the official region of the "camp."

The authorized place of execution for criminals in the time of Jesus had to be at least the Temple Mount, but it had to be in a place where the condemned could see the entrances to the Temple located in a westward direction. The biblical examples for judicial sentencing of people for their criminal acts in the time of Moses show they took place on the east side of the Sanctuary. Women accused of adultery were brought for judgment "before the Lord", that is, to the east entrance of the Sanctuary (Numbers 5:16-31). The two sons of Aaron were judged "before the Lord" on the east side of the Sanctuary (Leviticus 10:1-7). Korah and his Levites were also punished east of the Tabernacle (Numbers 16:41-50).

It was important for official judgments to be rendered and executed east of the Temple. This allowed the judgments to be made "in the presence of God," who figuratively faced east from his Sanctuary. Because of this, both the Sanhedrin and the lesser courts at Jerusalem in the time of Jesus were located in the Temple to the east of the Holy Place (Cohen, Everyman's Talmud, 299). It was reckoned that while God was symbolically sitting in the Holy of Holies, he could watch the proceedings going on in the law courts. God supposedly faced east while sitting on his Temple throne. Thus God in a figurative way had a panoramic view of all the ritualistic and judicial duties of his people which were being conducted east of the Sanctuary. This allowed all ceremonies (both religious and secular) to be done "in the presence of God." It is remarkable that many textbooks written by Christian theologians fail to mention the importance of this eastern area in this regard nor do they show the location of the altar "without the Sanctuary" (Ezekiel 43:2 1) where the Red Heifer was sacrificed and where the Day of Atonement sin offerings were burnt.

This eastern location was also significant in judicial matters involving capital crimes. Moses demanded that the place of executions had to be "outside the camp" (Numbers 15:35,36). All ritual sacrifices were offered east of the Sanctuary and in full view of God who figuratively dwelt in the Holy of Holies, and the prime sin offerings were burnt "outside the camp" at the summit of Olivet. And in Jewish practice, heinous criminals were required to be their own "sin offerings" in paying for their sins (without having the benefit of an animal sacrifice as a substitute) (Cohen, ibid., 317).

Since the major sin offerings were sacrificed near the summit of the Mount of Olives, this is why criminals were "sacrificed" as being their own sin offerings in the same vicinity. This is precisely the area where the later Jerusalem church believed Stephen was officially executed by the Sanhedrin (Wilkinson, Egeria's Travels, 185n.1). This was known by the Jews as "the Place of Stoning" (Sanhedrin 6:1,2,3,4). It was just "outside the camp" but in full view of the eastern entrances of the Temple. The Temple curtain in front of the Holy Place could easily be seen from this prospect and the New Testament shows that when the Temple curtain tore in two at the moment of Jesus' death that the centurion and the others around the crucifixion site viewed that phenomenon taking place (see especially Luke 23:44-47 and Matthew 27:54). From outside the wails of Jerusalem the curtain could only be seen from an elevated site east of the Temple. The area of the "Holy Sepulchre" is disqualified because from there only the back parts of the Temple could be seen. Besides, Josephus shows that the site of the "Holy Sepulchre" was the spot of the Tomb of John Hyrcanus (a respected Jewish king of the Hasmoneans) and such a shrine would never have been selected by the Jewish authorities as a place to execute criminals. But the summit of Olivet is different. Everything fits perfectly.



There are numerous historical reasons for selecting Olivet as the place of Jesus' crucifixion. In the recently translated Temple Scroll, Yadin pointed out that all people bearing religious defilements which prevented them from entering the holy city or the Temple were directed to stay east of the ideal Sanctuary region mentioned in the scroll (Yadin 177). Evil and defiled people (sinners) were kept east of Jerusalem in order to prevent any "winds of evil" from flowing over the holy city from the west. This is one of the reasons the sin offering of the Red Heifer and those of the Day of Atonement (which were to atone for sins) were burnt to ashes in this eastern area "outside the camp" (Leviticus 4:21; 16:27). Yadin suggested that a part of this eastern region which had been put aside for defiled persons was even referred to in the New Testament (e.g. Mark 14:3).

Since all sin offerings were sacrificed (or "executed") east of the Holy Place of the Temple, and the most important ones were sacrificed further east at the Red Heifer altar on Olivet, this easterly region of the Temple became known as the place where God dealt with sin -- where all the sins of the world will be judged. This is one reason why the Kidron Valley separating the Temple from the Mount of Olives became known as the Valley of Jehoshaphat (the valley where "God judges"). Even to this day Jews, Muslims and Christians consider the summit and western slope of Olivet as the ordained place where God will judge all people m the world for their sins. Charles Warren in Hasting's Dictionary of the Bible listed over fourteen Christina authorities (from the deaux Pilgrim onward) who attested to this belief (II.562). This is why it was important, from the Christian point of view, that Jesus died in this eastern region which was reckoned the judgment place for all mankind. For Jesus to be judged as dying for the sins of all mankind, Christians thought he had to be judged in the place where all mankind were designed to be judged for their sins.

Even Muslims (who inherited many traditional beliefs from the Jews and Christians) firmly believe that the summit and the western slope of the Mount of Olives is the judgment area for mankind. The Encyclopaedia Judaica has an interesting excerpt about this. "All the dead will congregate on the Mount of Olives and the angel Gabriel will move paradise to the right of Allah's Throne and hell to its left. All mankind will cross a long bridge suspended from the Mount of Olives to the Temple Mount, which will be narrower than a hair, sharper than a sword, and darker than night. Along this bridge there will be seven arches and at each arch man will be asked to account for his actions" (IX col.1576). This is the Muslim account.

It is easy to see that this traditional Muslim belief is based on the geography of the Temple and the Red Heifer arched bridge over the Kidron Valley that existed in Jesus' time. Indeed, the Hebrew word for the altar where the Red Heifer was burnt to ashes is miphkad (see Ezekiel 43:21).This word means "muster" or the place where people "congregate" or "gather together." And in traditional teaching, it was at or near this site on Olivet where all mankind would "congregate" to be judged. This teaching can be seen in the New Testament itself. When the Son of Man returns with all his angels, he shall sit on his glorious throne and he will then "gather together" before him for judgment all the nations of the world. Those selected to be on his right hand will go into the Kingdom of God while those on his left will go into the fire of perdition (Matthew 25:31-46). The geographical features of this teaching of Jesus (from the Jewish point of view in the first century) shows Jesus sitting on his glorious throne (which was in the Sanctuary of the Temple) and all the nations were then depicted as gathering to western slope of the Mount of Olives to face him for judgment. This allowed them to be judged "in the presence of Jesus." The Book of Revelation also spoke of the wicked being tormented in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb (Revelation 14:10). To be judged "in the presence of God" while he sits on his throne locates these individuals at the summit or on the western slope of the Mount of Olives. Again, this is why, even to Christians, the region of the Kidron Valley became known as the Valley of Jehoshaphat -- the place for God's judgment.

Conversely, the present Church of the Holy Sepulchre as well as the Garden Tomb are located west and north of the Temple. These sites were in no way areas of judgment, as was Olivet and its western slopes. These sites are further disqualified, though they were outside the western and northern walls of Jerusalem, because they were still located within the 2000 cubits' zone of the "camp of Israel" as measured from the Sanhedrin located in the Temple.

In conclusion, Christians in Jerusalem as late as the early fourth century knew that Jesus was crucified and buried on the Mount of Olives.

Ernest L. Martin


http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d920401.htm

[Molly]

I had to keep cutting out swatches of that article to get it to post.

Probably better to read the article itself at the link given. :laughing7:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9:  :thumbsup: Good digging, guys.....Molly, I either read that recently, or saw it on TV on some program about the Mt. of Olives. Isn't this just fascinating as more pieces of the puzzle come to light, even in the natural world? Love it, love His Word, love Him.  :HeartThrob:

[WhiteWings]

Those curtains where 82x30 feet.
They where hanging is a "portal' with doors.
Facing east (east gate of Eden where Adam and Eve where kicked out.

So this is symbolic of the barrier to the entrance to Eden.  The curtains have  cherubim on them, don't they?

That I don't know.
I know that earthquake was likely a vulcanic erruption in the dead sea. (fire and smoke is recorded many centuries after Jesus died)
The darkness was possibly smoke. The earthquake broke the 30 ton lintel on which the curtain hung.
The court of the sarhardin (sp?) and the chamber of teh high priest was no longer safe to enter. Jesus judgement was the last ever in that room. (recorded by historians and Jews)

-- Equating the Most Holy Place with the garden of Eden--the place where Adam walked with God.

See also post #82

The camp was 2000 cubits radius from a center point in the Temple. Just outside that radius was the 3rd altar on which the Red Heifer (+David +Abrahams son) was sacrificed. Jesus was killed (stoned!) there.

That would make sense that Jesus was killed outside the camp as were the sacrificial animals which are a shadow of what was to come.  So are you saying that we have to measure out 2000 cubits from the site of the crucifixion  to find the center for the new Temple?

2000+ a little extra.

Since the publication of my book "Secrets of Golgotha"

I have bought that book. Really :thumbsup:

It seems that many things happend there. David was judged on the rock Jesus stood on. It was also the altar Abraham wanted to sacrifice his son on.

[WhiteWings]

I had to keep cutting out swatches of that article to get it to post.

Probably better to read the article itself at the link given. :laughing7:

Actually I reccomend his books.
The articles are just snippets. The 'flow' of the book is lost.
And listen to the interview.