Fear Vs Horror

[Paul Hazelwood]

To propose HORROR or FEAR within the message of the GOSPEL, ...is to negate the proposition of PEACE, for which the GOSPEL is named -- Eph 6:15 -- Rom 10:15

The truth is that fear has a scriptural basis and we must not ignore it, we must see what it means for us.


1Pt 3:15 yet hallow the Lord Christ in your hearts, ever ready with a defense for everyone who is demanding from you an account concerning the expectation in you, but with meekness and fear

Fear in this instance does not carry the definition of awe or reverence .    It is a righteous fear because it is a word from God in the same manner that Gods Wrath is also righteous.

[Beloved Servant]

"Many people are afraid of the word wrath.  I'm not afraid to use it because it is not a mean or vindictive word!  What is wrath?  It has always been taught by the carnal church systems in a negative way and it should not be.  What is the biblical meaning of wrath?  The Greek word is orge meaning "to reach out with passionate desire and take hold of."  It is quite clear that the orge of the Lamb has nothing to do with uncontrolled anger or vindictive vengeance!  The very simplest definition of the Greek word orge is "passion."  The passion of the Lamb!  What a word that is!  That rendering certainly reconciles the apparent contradiction inherent in the King James Bible: "The wrath of the Lamb."  Who has ever seen a wrathful lamb?  Show me one and I might consider the remote possibility of Christ coming in wrath upon mankind, in the way it is taught in the church systems of man.  But there are no wrathful lambs!"
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                      — J Preston Eby
                                                                                                                                                          KingdomBibleStudies.org
                                                                                                                                                          FROM THE CANDLESTICK TO THE THRONE, part  95

 

[willieH]

To propose HORROR or FEAR within the message of the GOSPEL, ...is to negate the proposition of PEACE, for which the GOSPEL is named -- Eph 6:15 -- Rom 10:15

The truth is that fear has a scriptural basis and we must not ignore it, we must see what it means for us.


1Pt 3:15 yet hallow the Lord Christ in your hearts, ever ready with a defense for everyone who is demanding from you an account concerning the expectation in you, but with meekness and fear

Fear in this instance does not carry the definition of awe or reverence .

Oh really? On the contrary, ...it depends upon who is translating:

1 Peter 3:15 (New American Standard Bible)
15but [a]sanctify (A)Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready (B)to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the (C)hope that is in you, yet (D)with gentleness and (E)reverence;


1 Peter 3:15 (English Standard Version)
15but(A) in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy,(B) always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and(C) respect,

1 Peter 3:15 (New International Reader's Version)
15 But make sure in your hearts that Christ is Lord. Always be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks you about the hope you have. Be ready to give the reason for it. But do it gently and with respect.

1 Peter 3:15 (Amplified Bible)
15But in your hearts set Christ apart as holy [and acknowledge Him] as Lord. Always be ready to give a logical defense to anyone who asks you to account for the hope that is in you, but do it courteously and respectfully.



And SOME VERSIONS --- leave the phrase containing FEAR completely out and include it in verse 16, but still note RESPECT:



1 Peter 3:15 (New Living Translation)
15 Instead, you must worship Christ as Lord of your life. And if someone asks about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. _____????????????____________   :dontknow:
16 But do this in a gentle and respectful way.[a] Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ.

1Peter 3:15 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
15 but set apart the Messiah [a] as Lord in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you. _______?????????????_______   :dontknow:
16 However, do this with gentleness and respect, keeping your conscience clear, so that when you are accused,  those who denounce your Christian life will be put to shame.

1 Peter 3:15 (Net Bible)
15 But set Christ apart as Lord in your hearts and always be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks about the hope you possess. 
16 Yet do it with courtesy and respect

So where does that leave us, Paul?  ABOVE I have named SEVEN translations that note RESPECT as the translation of this passage, and NOT "FEAR"  :dontknow:

It is a righteous fear because it is a word from God in the same manner that Gods Wrath is also righteous.

Once again out of your own invention, you use the word "righteous" in conjunction with FEAR when it is not so stated in the WORD...  :sigh:

GOD [LOVE] -- 1 John 4:8 -- casts out FEAR -- 1 John 4:18 -- if one continues IN FEAR then one is NOT MADE PERFECT in LOVE...

Regardless of your own personal insistence or inventions/enhancements ("righteous FEAR") which are made toward the WORD, and which are not found in it... :mnah:

I reiterate my question posed to you:   Of those whom LOVE you, how many of them are you AFRAID of, or do you FEAR?

We must align our beliefs with REASON -- Isaiah 1:18 -- along with the comparison of a Scripture to other Scriptures...

FEAR is NOT aligned with PEACE... which is what CHRIST -- made -- at the Cross -- Col 1:20 -- so FEAR is therefore, NOT aligned with the doings and accomplishment of the Cross...

You are welcome to FEAR all you desire brother, and be AFRAID of the one who LOVES you most... as for me, ...NO THANKS!!  :winkgrin:

...willieH  :HeartThrob:

[Paul Hazelwood]

Oh really? On the contrary, ...it depends upon who is translating:

The greek word in the verse in question does not have that definition, thats just how it is.  .

G5401  phobos  fob'-os

from a primary phebomai (to be put in fear);

alarm or fright:--be afraid, + exceedingly, fear, terror.


Where other uses of it does.

G5399  phobeo  fob-eh'-o

from G5401;

to frighten, i.e. (passively) to be alarmed; by analogy, to be in awe of, i.e.
revere:--be (+ sore) afraid, fear (exceedingly), reverence.

These are the facts of the words that are to be considered in scripture.

Once again out of your own invention, you use the word "righteous" in conjunction with FEAR when it is not so stated in the WORD...  :sigh:

God being righteous is not my invention and Gods instruction to us in 1 peter 3:15 is also righteous,  the word  "phobos" does not have the definition of awe or reverence and that is not my invention.  It is my conclusion through the reasoning of facts and not opinion that I say what I do.  To declare I have invented something as a basis to say I am wrong is incorrect.

I reiterate my question posed to you:   Of those whom LOVE you, how many of them are you AFRAID of, or do you FEAR?

None,  but I am not God and neither is any human I love, so the question is irrelevant. 

However, that's not the issue in seeing how fear applies.    Are you not to fear being willfully disobedient to God?   Are the warnings in the bible for believers who have been given truth and the responsibility that goes along with it pointless?   You can just walk away and ignore them and it means really nothing at all? 

We must align our beliefs with REASON -- Isaiah 1:18 -- along with the comparison of a Scripture to other Scriptures...

If your reason includes ignoring what we know to be defintions of words, then I see no reason to take your advise.

You are welcome to FEAR all you desire brother, and be AFRAID of the one who LOVES you most... as for me, ...NO THANKS!!  :winkgrin:

If you had been reading all I wrote you would see that the perspective I have is to study what is actually in scripture rather than saying I am in terror of God himself or that anyone else should walk around in a blind fear but that there is an aspect of fear that should cause us to greatly consider what we do.   

[willieH]

Oh really? On the contrary, ...it depends upon who is translating:

The greek word in the verse in question does not have that definition, thats just how it is.  .

G5401  phobos  fob'-os

from a primary phebomai (to be put in fear);

alarm or fright:--be afraid, + exceedingly, fear, terror.


Where other uses of it does.

G5399  phobeo  fob-eh'-o

from G5401;

to frighten, i.e. (passively) to be alarmed; by analogy, to be in awe of, i.e.
revere:--be (+ sore) afraid, fear (exceedingly), reverence.

These are the facts of the words that are to be considered in scripture.

Here we find YOU are placing yourself above 7 Translation efforts which disagree with your proposed "expertise"...  Since when are YOU a Greek expert, Paul?

Once again out of your own invention, you use the word "righteous" in conjunction with FEAR when it is not so stated in the WORD...  :sigh:

God being righteous is not my invention and Gods instruction to us in 1 peter 3:15 is also righteous,  the word  "phobos" does not have the definition of awe or reverence and that is not my invention.  It is my conclusion through the reasoning of facts and not opinion that I say what I do.

I do not argue that GOD is righteous, Heavens NO! ...I argue that FEAR is a part of LOVE, PEACE or RIGHTEOUSNESS... As well as proposing that in your present viewpoint which EMBRACES FEAR, you are thereby VEILED to PEACE, LOVE and RIGHTEOUSNESS, Paul.

That "Phobos" was used in this verse, and SEVEN (probably more) translators found it to  mean "RESPECT" must mean that the definition found of PHOBOS, includes THAT ASPECT, otherwise... these men/women are WILLFULLY joining together in their SEPARATE EFFORTS to decieve...  Do you really believe this Paul?

It is much more REASONABLE to assume they are NOT doing this... and that YOU are mistaken, or at the very least... UNINFORMED...  For their translation of this passage is IN ALIGNMENT with 1 John 4:18 and YOURS is NOT!

How can something UNFLAMMABLE BURN, Paul?  If LOVE becomes PERFECT by CASTING OUT FEAR... how could LOVE also be about INSTILLING it?   

You argue UNREASONABLY... and I could care less about whether or not you maintain your present viewpoint... My concern is that you do not MISLEAD others in expressing it.

To declare I have invented something as a basis to say I am wrong is incorrect.

FIRST --  You make this about YOU... which is shown by this remark.  It is NOT about you or I, Paul... it is about TRUTH, and arriving upon its foundation.  I am happy to admit that I have viewed something which is VEILED, for it affords me the opportunity to: (1) know the TRUTH, and, (2) to be HUMBLE before it.

SECOND -- No man is EVER CORRECT or INCORRECT.  We are either VEILED or REVEALED concerning TRUTH... That you argue for garnering/gathering of FEAR within the experience of, and conveyed message of the GOSPEL of PEACE -- Eph 6:15 -- when LOVE is in the business of CASTING it OUT -- 1 John 4:18 --  and the FACT that the state of PEACE is the business of OPPOSING FEAR, ...displays that you are IN CONTRADICTION to the stated WORD.

THIRD -- Your method is strawman... for I never said you were WRONG... I said that you have invented terminology which is NOT USED in the Scripture... If that assertion I have made of you is "incorrect", then you will either provide Scripture which notes "RIGHTEOUS FEAR" proving your assertion that it EXISTS, or you shall NOT, proving your assertion as LESS than the TRUTH...  :dontknow:  We shall see, eh?

I reiterate my question posed to you:   Of those whom LOVE you, how many of them are you AFRAID of, or do you FEAR?

None,  but I am not God and neither is any human I love, so the question is irrelevant.

The question is HARDLY irrelevant... It is your PURPOSED endeavor to ignore truthfully answering it.   You dismiss it without proving Scripturally that it is awry.  :mshock:  For you are bent upon disregarding the OBVIOUS REASON that has been substancially provided you... That is fine...   You are welcome to argue that water is not WET as well, if you like... but your stance is shown UNREASONABLE by the proofs that EXIST otherwise, and have already been noted to you.

If the "LOVE" we experience with one another is OTHER than that which we experience with GOD... and HE with US... then please note and DEFINE this "other form" of LOVE to us Paul.  Please use the Scriptures to provide this definition, instead just your own words. (which is usually your method)

Where is "HUMAN LOVE" even denoted in the Scriptures, Paul?  And where is it noted as different than DIVINE LOVE?

LOVE is LOVE... it is not something that has numerous variations.

We do not need to be GOD to experience LOVE... in fact we are INSTRUCTED to LOVE one another.  How can we employ something that only GOD is able to employ? :rolleye:

LOVE is clearly defined in 1 Cor 13 -- Please show me where FEAR exists in the defintion of LOVE as provided in 1 Cor 13, Paul...

Also, please display for us (Scripturally) the difference between "human LOVE" and "Divine LOVE"...

If you CANNOT, then once again, your SILENCE is enough to display the VEIL in your life concerning this subject.

No offense brother, ...but I maintain that you have "invented" your own set of definitions... we shall see if they are found in the Scriptures either by your SILENCE or your notations of Scripture which found them as NOT "inventions"...

However, that's not the issue in seeing how fear applies.    Are you not to fear being willfully disobedient to God?

Are you saying that you can be UNWILLFULLY disobedient to God, Paul?  When does that occur?  Any "DISOBEDIENCE" has INTENT as well as has knowledge of what "OBEDIENCE" IS, in order to oppose it!

FEAR is NOT (and NEVER HAS BEEN) the motivator of LOVE... Is THAT how you raised your children Paul?  Or is THAT how you maintain a relationship with a woman?  By proposing enough FEAR to keep her (or the kids) "in line"?  And wherein is found the FULFILLMENT of LOVE, found in the heart by enacting such an agenda?  Where is the PEACE in such an approach, Paul?  :dontknow:  It is truly HARD for me to believe that you do you not see the ILLOGIC that is present in such a proposal?  :mshock: 

ALL men are WILLFUL sinners Paul... do you know why?  I'll be curious as to your answer (if you have the guts to answer)...  :dontknow:

Are the warnings in the bible for believers who have been given truth and the responsibility that goes along with it pointless?   You can just walk away and ignore them and it means really nothing at all?

Your biggest problem brother, is that you look upon the WORD of LOVE as a set of "WARNINGS"... which it is NOT.  It is a LOVE STORY...  Not a DIVINE -- "Stephen King type" writing!  Filled with the conclusive HORRORS of FEAR and UNREASONABLE PUNISHMENTS!

As the DIVINE "parent" of ALL... you would demote Him to being LESS in the ability to LOVE than are humans...  :pitiful:

Humans can LOVE and NUTURE and GUIDE their Children... but according to YOU --- if GOD's Kids "don't get it"... they end up "walking the plank!"  :ticked: :punish:  Please!  Are you that [WILLFULLY] BLIND, Paul?  :sigh:

RESPONSIBILITY

More imaginitive invention, ...We are not "responsible" for anything.  GOD is WORKING ALL THINGS -- Eph 1:11 -- Paul... or don't you believe that either?  :JCThink:   :sigh:

Where in the WORD is noted our "responsibility"?  GOD is the one RESPONSIBLE... for it is HIS Creation (not ours) HIS agenda (not ours), HIS Salvation (get ready -- NOT OURS), and HIS Knowledge (get ready again -- NOT OURS) that is REVEALED in this life...  You and I and everything we do... is HIS KNOWLEDGE, Paul!  FOREKNOWN and DECLARED before ANY of it took place!  :cloud9:

You DEMOTE our Almighty GOD to be a reactive entity to OUR "DOINGS", instead of KNOWING the TRUTH which denotes WE are REACTIVE to HIS DOINGS... 

God did not set you and I upon the earth, and then "sit back" to see what you or I would do!  :laughing7:  Please!  You and I were set upon this earth, to DO as HE DECLARED you and I would DO! -- Isaiah 46:10-11 -- Rom 4:17 -- Rom 9:11-- Eph 2:10 :nod:

CHRIST was slain from the FOUNDATION of the WORLD -- Rev 13:8 -- in which ALL the SONS of GOD shouted for JOY! -- Job 38:7 -- What "JOY" is in that act Paul?  Before ANY sin had occured... GOD had ORDAINED His Son to die to redeem all from the experience they were about to have!  The JOY is that we would be DIVINELY enlightened! 

And that SUCH GREAT LOVE existed in YHVH and His Son, that EVERYTHING would find redemption and return from the experience, even though it would be HARD for ALL... it would be the CROWNING manifestation of YHVH to reveal HIS ENTIRE HEART to us!

Your view belittles the whole experience.  Making it a VENGENT, HORROR and FEAR FILLED and ILLOGICAL one instead of REASONABLE and FULFILLING one, as LOVE completes ALL THINGS...  :pitiful:

We must align our beliefs with REASON -- Isaiah 1:18 -- along with the comparison of a Scripture to other Scriptures...

If your reason includes ignoring what we know to be defintions of words, then I see no reason to take your advise.

To begin with, I object to your use of the word "WE" in your statement...

I have already shown that what "YOU KNOW" to be DEFINITION, is questionable.  SEVEN witnesses disagree with what "YOU KNOW"...

And you have completely missed out on the motivation for my posts... I could care less about "advising" YOU.  You are unable to take anyones advice... which is ORDAINED.  I pretty much post at Tentmaker, for the purpose of EXPOSING agendas and beliefs which are not ALIGNED with the WORD...

To date in this thread, you have not REFUTED ANYTHING that I have said to you... You just endeavor to SIDESTEP it...  Which is your decision... and YOU shall present that "decision" before YHVH.

You are welcome to FEAR all you desire brother, and be AFRAID of the one who LOVES you most... as for me, ...NO THANKS!!  :winkgrin:

If you had been reading all I wrote you would see that the perspective I have is to study what is actually in scripture rather than saying I am in terror of God himself or that anyone else should walk around in a blind fear but that there is an aspect of fear that should cause us to greatly consider what we do.   

I have indeed READ what you have stated Paul... and responded IN DETAIL... something that YOU HAVE NOT DONE...

If you choose to be AFRAID of GOD, and thereby DECIEVE yourself as to what the doings of LOVE are, and how they are stated in the WORD... then so be it... 

However... Know that I shall oppose you as you try to propose said ILLOGICAL self-deceit to the hearts of others... and present in its place, the GOSPEL of PEACE which not only is DEVOID of FEAR, but is about eliminating FEAR by CASTING IT OUT. :boogie:

...willieH   :HeartThrob:

[Paul Hazelwood]

[Here we find YOU are placing yourself above 7 Translation efforts which disagree with your proposed "expertise"...  Since when are YOU a Greek expert, Paul?

No, I looked up the definition in strongs and some translations use the word fear, that is not placing myself above anyone.

That "Phobos" was used in this verse, and SEVEN (probably more) translators found it to  mean "RESPECT" must mean that the definition found of PHOBOS, includes THAT ASPECT, otherwise... these men/women are WILLFULLY joining together in their SEPARATE EFFORTS to decieve...  Do you really believe this Paul?

Then you would conclude  by this argument that age is not the properly translated word for aionios since most translators use everlasting?  

No offense brother, ...but I maintain that you have "invented" your own set of definitions... we shall see if they are found in the Scriptures either by your SILENCE or your notations of Scripture which found them as NOT "inventions"...

None taken but your point is incorrectly made.  I have already used scripture by posting a verse from a translation that uses the word fear.  I have not invented the definition of phobos I used strongs notes.  You can present the case that the sources I used are incorrect but you are wrong that I have invented a defintion.

FEAR is NOT (and NEVER HAS BEEN) the motivator of LOVE...

Never said it was and was not the point of anything I have written.

Is THAT how you raised your children Paul?

I explained that in a previous comment, you stated that you have read all that I have written, if that is true then question me on what I wrote about that issue.

Your biggest problem brother, is that you look upon the WORD of LOVE as a set of "WARNINGS"... which it is NOT.  It is a LOVE STORY...  Not a DIVINE -- "Stephen King type" writing!  Filled with the conclusive HORRORS of FEAR and UNREASONABLE PUNISHMENTS!

That is not my problem and have not proposed any such thing as horrors or fear of unreasonable punishments.  So here you are mistaken.

 

You DEMOTE our Almighty GOD to be a reactive entity to OUR "DOINGS", instead of KNOWING the TRUTH which denotes WE are REACTIVE to HIS DOINGS...  

No, you imply that I have falsely.

Your view belittles the whole experience.  Making it a VENGENT, HORROR and FEAR FILLED and ILLOGICAL one instead of REASONABLE and FULFILLING one, as LOVE completes ALL THINGS...  :pitiful:

False, in fact I proposed in the thread that we consider the difference between religion based horrors and the definition in strongs for "phobos".

You are unable to take anyones advice

False.

To date in this thread, you have not REFUTED ANYTHING that I have said to you... You just endeavor to SIDESTEP it...  Which is your decision... and YOU shall present that "decision" before YHVH.

I have,  you simply make accusations to say otherwise.

I have indeed READ what you have stated Paul... and responded IN DETAIL... something that YOU HAVE NOT DONE...

The amount of words one chooses to write is irrelevant.

However... Know that I shall oppose you as you try to propose said ILLOGICAL self-deceit to the hearts of others... and present in its place, the GOSPEL of PEACE which not only is DEVOID of FEAR, but is about eliminating FEAR by CASTING IT OUT. :boogie:

And so you oppose what I write, so what?

[Beloved Servant]

Psalm 69

30 I will praise the name of God with a song, and will magnify him with thanksgiving.

31 This also shall please the LORD better than an ox or bullock that hath horns and hoofs.

32 The humble shall see this, and be glad: and your heart shall live that seek God.


Displeasing my Lord is my fear.
Horror is a term I attribute to the womb of man.

[Beloved Servant]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdQje_gJ0ko


Who could be afraid of Jesus?

FRANKLY, IT'S AN INSULT TO OUR SAVIOR.

[Beloved Servant]

It's like a relay race and Jesus was the last runner with the baton than won the race for the team!
Amazing!

[Paul Hazelwood]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdQje_gJ0ko


Who could be afraid of Jesus?

FRANKLY, IT'S AN INSULT TO OUR SAVIOR.

And if someone insults the Saviour, then what?

[Beloved Servant]

He's perfect!
It's impossible.

[Paul Hazelwood]

He's perfect!
It's impossible.

Now were getting somewhere.

[Beloved Servant]

He is not the One who gets out of alignment — it is us!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUd4-dxAm-E

[Beloved Servant]

It's a living race for all — we have to hand Him the baton!

How? Faith!
And where does faith come from?

Faith is a gift from God. Faith is not of our doing.

 Hebrews 12:2  ...Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith.

 Romans 12:3  ... God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

 Romans 10:17   ... faith comes from hearing and hearing by the word of Christ.

 2 Cor 10:15  ...faith can grow...

 Romans 5:1   ... justified by faith...

 Romans 4:5  ... his faith is counted as righteousness.

 Ephesians 2:8,9  ... salvation is not from works.

 Romans 9:32 ... Israel did not arrive at righteousness because they did not pursue righteous by faith but as though it were by works.

 Hebrews 12:2  ...Jesus is the author!
 

[Paul Hazelwood]

Here is an example of why I started this thread, it is not to instill fear of God or Jesus into anyone it is to consider the facts that are available.   This is reasonable and will not be found unreasonable.  Only the implication of such through false means or misunderstanding will someone say such nonsense. 

I was asked how I raised my children and perhaps a bit more detail is necessary to avoid conflict if it is possible.


While It would be pleasing to me that right out of the womb my kids adored me SOOOOO much that they inherantly would just listen to my great words of instruction, even perhaps at a young age they might not even understand what I was saying, but because I was so loving and righteous I could believe that they understood me. Of course such a thing is preposterous.

So to rely on my Love for them  to inherantly  keep my kids from running out into the street into traffic before they can understand love or why they should not is stupid and foolish.   

Yes,  I instilled fear of consequenses into them,  but I did not instill terrible horrors that would cause them to see me as a great monster they had to please or else.   Yes, as a father in some part of their thinking there was a fear involved that they were not willing to overcome and go ahead and run out into the street.

Today, while I know I made mistakes and did not do everything perfectly there are many things my kids thank me for because now they understand the righteousness of that fear for the time it was necessary.

It is interesting though, this verse....

Lk 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

Ah no big deal huh? 

[Paul Hazelwood]

The religious aspect of the word "phobos" in scripture has come down to only one consideration, we must only consider what is wrong if it will reap us an eternal horror in the torture in misery of hell.

The scriptures speak of moderation in all things.   Do we as reasonable people really only consider what we do based on horrors? We often watch out when we are cutting a tomato so that we do not slice our finger.  I do not want to slice my finger, and I would not consider slicing my finger a great "horror" but am I to fear cutting a tomato simply based  upon the possibility that I may cut my finger?  I think not.

Well, lets say I do not know how to use a knife and have never sliced my finger open and  someone says that I should not try until I learn because you could slice open your finger and they detail a very distasteful picture of what may happen.   There is a reasonable approach that to fear based upon consequenses.  I do not actually have to love or respect someone who offers the advise of harm if I do not know what I am doing.


If a teacher was instructing me and I needed to be afraid of harm based upon something I do not understand, it is quite righteous to instill that fear.  That teacher would then instruct me in the proper procedure to do something therefor CASTING out fear with understanding.

This is what I am talking about and writing to consider.  It is actually trying to take all of scripture and the definitions that scholars and translators have given us as resources to study and consider things.   If you believe I am trying to make people afraid of God or Jesus then you are in fact mistaken.

[Beloved Servant]

Yes, it is.
That is why those who are called to teach do so with profound truth or a reverent silence of the Lord.


Edit: This was to your previous post.
I was outside shoveling snow. For the THIRD time today! lol
Praise the Lord.

[peacemaker]

Upon searching 22 various translations of the WORD, and a hundred and forty-three verses in the Hebrew and Greek languages:

"Let all the earth fear/REVERENCE/stand in awe of the Lord."

peacemaker

[Seth]

Here is an example of why I started this thread, it is not to instill fear of God or Jesus into anyone it is to consider the facts that are available.   This is reasonable and will not be found unreasonable.  Only the implication of such through false means or misunderstanding will someone say such nonsense.  

I was asked how I raised my children and perhaps a bit more detail is necessary to avoid conflict if it is possible.


While It would be pleasing to me that right out of the womb my kids adored me SOOOOO much that they inherantly would just listen to my great words of instruction, even perhaps at a young age they might not even understand what I was saying, but because I was so loving and righteous I could believe that they understood me. Of course such a thing is preposterous.

So to rely on my Love for them  to inherantly  keep my kids from running out into the street into traffic before they can understand love or why they should not is stupid and foolish.  

Yes,  I instilled fear of consequenses into them,  but I did not instill terrible horrors that would cause them to see me as a great monster they had to please or else.   Yes, as a father in some part of their thinking there was a fear involved that they were not willing to overcome and go ahead and run out into the street.

Today, while I know I made mistakes and did not do everything perfectly there are many things my kids thank me for because now they understand the righteousness of that fear for the time it was necessary.

It is interesting though, this verse....

Lk 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

Ah no big deal huh?  

I know what you mean. There is a show on TV called "Intervention" a documentary show that details drug/alcohol abuse and culminating in an intervention. At first I thought it would be exploitative, yet it has emerged as one of the best television programs I have ever seen. Anyway, when my daughter is of an age to understand and digest it, I will show her some episodes, so she can see with her own eyes how a precious life can be destroyed by abuse of substances. This I hope will instill a fear, not a fear of a monster or of God-inflicted torture, but a fear of ending up in that situation. That, I hope will MOTIVATE her into making healthy choices. Jesus warned his disciples of Gehenna. Whatever someone believes Gehenna represents, we should be fearful of being there. I believe Gehenna represents defilement in a life of sin, for reasons I will not detail now as it isn't really my point. The point is that there are different kinds of fear, not just the boogieman fears instilled by the hell-indoctrinated church. That sort of fear is not, by necessity, in opposition to love. Fear of consequences is like that. I agree.

[peacemaker]

The mental picture is not the reality, its only duality; the tree of knowledge.

"Fear and control, give way to  illusions of Separation."

peacemaker

[reFORMer]

The posts following by Paul and Willie have been removed to the Moderator's Holding Tank.  Let's stop petty bikering and stay on the topic.  You're both wonderful brothers!  I could say let's act our age.  "Godliness with contentment is great gain."

James

[Paul Hazelwood]

The posts following by Paul and Willie have been removed to the Moderator's Holding Tank.  Let's stop petty bikering and stay on the topic.  You're both wonderful brothers!

James

Thank You.

[peacemaker]

(http://dl8.glitter-graphics.net/pub/932/932868vduvgm1jhg.jpg)
Holding Pen

[Seth]

Nothing's funnier than literalism combined with animals, especially little fuzzy ones.  :laughing7:

[Paul Hazelwood]

The pharasees were instructed by Jesus to beware.


Mt 23:33  "Serpents! Progeny of vipers! How may you be fleeing from the judging of
Gehenna?