Statements to understand UR theology. Please give biblical answers only.

[Beloved Servant]

What's a fallen angel?

[willieH]

willieH: Hi sister R...  :cloud9:

You crack me up! ~~  :laugh: :laughhand:

:cloud9: Do you actually know what salvation is CoG? What is it to you, just a fire escape plan? Blessings....

:laughing7:

Loveya sis...

...willieH  :cloud9:

[ChosenofGod37]

Willie,

Rom 9:11-12 -- For being NOT YET BORN, neither having done GOOD or EVIL, that the PURPOSE of GOD according to ...ELECTION... might stand, NOT of works, but OF HIM that CALLETH -- It was said unto her, THE ELDER SHALL SERVE THE YOUNGER...

Jacob and Esau did not have a CHOICE concerning their lives... and neither do you.

GOD's ELECTION is about HIS PURPOSE, and HE sets those according to HIS PURPOSE to DO as HE CALLS them to do... that HIS PURPOSE and MISSION be completed according to HIS ELECTION, not the will and choices of men...


COG: The calling in Romans 9:11-12 has nothing to do with mission's but the sovereign drawing of the Father.(Rom 8:30; 2Thess 2:13 ; 2Ti 1:9 ; 1 Cor 1:2; John 6:44;65)

[ChosenofGod37]

Willie,

JESUS said they would die in their SINS, ...He did not SAY they would not be SAVED!  That, dear friend is YOUR ASSUMPTION...

COG: Ok, show me in the bible where someone dies in their sins and their sins are forgiven.


you said:
The HOLY SPIRIT of YHVH inspired PAUL to write
Willie,


1 Cor 3:11-15 -- SAVED so as BY FIRE...

If you don't get it, ...well,  ...you don't get it, CoG37! 

Like I said -- repetitions are not going to avail anything, ...you do not have EARS to hear, so repeating myself won't enable understanding forya...  Pardon

COG: The believers works are judged. The Quality of the materials (Gold, silver, precious stones ) represent dedicated , spiritual service to build the church. ( wood, hay, stubble) represent inferior materials implying shallow activity with no eternal value. The fire represent God's discerning judgment. Christ has paid the price so their is no judgment of sin. No matter how worthless one's works are, no believer will forfeit salvation.

[ChosenofGod37]

Beloved,

The evil angels are called "unclean" (Rev.16:13) and "evil" (Lk.8:2), and are classified as:

   1. The angels who are kept in prison for their role in the Gen.6 infiltration, mentioned in 2Pet.2:4 and Jd.6, and are the same as those released to torment men in the Tribulation for five months (Rev.9:1-11).
   2. The angels who remain free, usually mentioned in connection with Satan (Mt.25:41; Rev.12:7-9; cp. Rom.8:38).
   3. The demons, a term used to describe all fallen angels (including Satan) and means a "lesser god" (Mt.12:24-28; 17:18; 1Cor.10:20,21; 1Tim.4:1; Jam.2:19; Rev.9:20; 18:2; Mk.1:32).
   4. Having different ranks and functions under Satan (Eph.6:12).

[willieH]

willieH: Hi CoG37 --  :reachout:

COG: The believers works are judged. The Quality of the materials (Gold, silver, precious stones ) represent dedicated , spiritual service to build the church. ( wood, hay, stubble) represent inferior materials implying shallow activity with no eternal value. The fire represent God's discerning judgment. Christ has paid the price so their is no judgment of sin. No matter how worthless one's works are, no believer will forfeit salvation.

Selective reading, selective RELIGION in the flesh!

The Scripture 1 Cor 3:11-15 says --

[vs 11] there is NO FOUNDATION other than JESUS CHRIST, and that
[vs 12] ANY MAN builds upon this foundation (not just believers as you would INSERT here), and that
[vs 13] EVERY MAN's work will be revealed by this fire (not just believers) and,
[vs 14] if ANY MAN's work abides will recieve a reward, and,
[vs 15] if ANY MAN's work is burned he's suffer loss (not just believers) yet will be SAVED ...BY... the FIRE!

These verses continually incorporate the Greek word PAS which means EVERY, WHATSOEVER, ALL, etc... not just BELIEVERS!

Any act of man, which is in LINE with Holiness, will survive!  There are many acts of RIGHTEOUSNESS which are done by NON-"CHRISTIANS" which SHALL survive... and many which are done by "CHRISTIANS" which shall NOT survive... there is "wood, hay and stubble" in ALL... As well as "gold, silver and precious stones" in ALL...

You use your RELIGION to separate yourself from the neighbor you are INSTRUCTED to LOVE... looking down upon him as a PUBLICAN, with your PHARISEEICAL vision of yourself --  Luke 18:10-14, ready to sentence and condemn him to burning forever in your beloved HELL...  :thumbdown:

PAUL wrote his letters to TEACH the GOSPEL to those in the various given cities where BELIEVERS were TAKING the GOSPEL MESSAGE to the WORLD (that God SO LOVED)!

You and many like you, have a mythical and imagined, tunnel vision that it is a "modern day" mission to evangelize the world...  And even then, will you DRAW upon those letters for that which you would propose to the WORLD? (maybe you don't)

When are you going to answer my questions "Mr. Theology"?

I'll reiterate it for the THIRD TIME:

What is the PURPOSE of YHVH?  Why are we going through all of this CoG37?  Do you have the slightest idea?

You've only shown to date, that you know almost nothing... and use Scripture so seldomly it makes me wonder is you really DO have a Bible!  :sigh:

...willieH  :HeartThrob:

[Beloved Servant]

HUH???
Where did you get that commentary from?

[ChosenofGod37]

Willie,

JESUS said they would die in their SINS, ...He did not SAY they would not be SAVED!  That, dear friend is YOUR ASSUMPTION...

COG: Ok, show me in the bible where someone dies in their sins and their sins are forgiven.

COG: Congrats willie, you and the traditional Roman Catholic Church hold to similiar doctrines..They call it purgatory.

[willieH]

willieH: CoG --  :sigh:

How long will continue your UNBIBLICAL babble CoG37?

COG: The calling in Romans 9:11-12 has nothing to do with mission's but the sovereign drawing of the Father.(Rom 8:30; 2Thess 2:13 ; 2Ti 1:9 ; 1 Cor 1:2; John 6:44;65)

You make GOD a RESPECTER of PERSONS in every post... partial to one lump of DIRT over another, UNREASONABLE, UNMERCIFUL, a BULLY which has no glory...

Certainly NOT the God of HEAVEN, and dear Father of ALL -- YHVH... defaming His name, distorting his LOVE, and PEACE,  ADDING to His Holy WORD, ...disrupting His GOSPEL... reporting the mission of  His Son to be a FAILURE... unable to SAVE the WORLD He so LOVED...  :thumbdown:

What a lot of crap.  You are welcome to it... chew on it all you like, and when you are done, it shall be found SHAMEFULLY bitter in the stomach of your spirit...

GOD calls to ALL in DUE TIME -- 1 Tim 2:3-6

You are stubborn and purposed in your blindness... a FAILURE in answering questions, unworthy of replies, for you ignore that which EASILY confounds you and your false RELIGION...

Let's face it brother, ...you are NEVER going to change an inkling of the viewpoints here... for we have ALL been where you are, ...and NONE of us intend on returning to the foul and TAINTED message emerging from BABYLON, ...

Why not go pedal your CALVINIST garbage to CARM and sign up there, joining in with those that are as decieved as yourself?

Such a pity... :pitiful:

...willieH  :HeartThrob:

[Beloved Servant]

wow Willie wow

[Seth]

:cloud9: Surely not things both IN and UNDER the EARTH, too?   :winkgrin:  Blessings....

GASP!!!

You mean "all" really means "all" and not "some"?!?

:thumbsup:

Lol yeah. j! Check it out:

1 Corinthians 15:22-28
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, SO THAT God may be all in all.

Interesting. We have this statement that all die in Adam. Does the church believe that? SURE! Do they believe that IN Christ all shall be made alive? NOOOOOOO!

Why not? Well first they probably would isolate that to mean resurrection. However, since they teach that everyone is already immortal (except their bodies) the only way they could be made alive otherwise is in being delivered from sin, because they are supposedly already alive otherwise! That of course would be revealed by the fact that it does not say that people will be made alive BY Christ, but IN Christ. Nevermind that. Shhhh.

Let's put the necessity for resurrection to be made alive aside for a second. Look at the logic which follows this statement "For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive"

We have that statement which is followed by a description of the order by which each man who was and is dead in Adam to be made alive IN.....sorry, I just had to repeat that little word....that is IN Christ.

"When he has done this then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him so that God will be all in all."

Now, did anything within 1 Corinthians 15 LIMIT "all?" Nope! In fact, Paul is very clear that the contextual "all" is in direct relation toooo....can you guess? ALL WHO WHERE DEAD IN ADAM, because we know from the Bible that all who were dead in Adam will be made alive....guess where....that's right..... (here is that word again) IN .....CHRIST!

Now it says that in order for God to be "all in all" a certain someone must be "made subject" to God, one specific person. One person, one SPECIFIC person, who was given all authority in heaven and earth and thought it not robbery to be considered equal with God, according to the scripture, must now be subjected to God. Before this occurs we see that EVERYTHING has been subjected to Christ. Then we see Christ subjecting himself to God, SO THAT (which means for the purpose of) God will be all in all.

We see that EVERYTHING + CHRIST - derived from the contextual statement that all who are dead in Adam will be made alive in Christ - results in God being ALL.....IN......ALL. No limitations are expressed.

My old self says: But wait a minute, my friends told me that there are no chances in the unscripturally denoted "after life" if someone dead in Adam was not a Christian. Even though it doesn't ACTUALLY specifically say that, my Christian upbringing told me so. So....I guess....I shall invent a limit where no limit is denoted.

Ummm...well I guess....being made alive just means being resurrected.

My new self, who now believes the Bible rather than preconceived doctrines which are surmised to be stated rather than actually stated:

1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

My old self says: so what?

My new self, who now believes the Bible rather than preconceived doctrines which are surmised to be stated rather than actually stated says:

Well, the same passage of scripture says that IN THE END "the last enemy to be eliminated is death" is the one that says that after EVERYTHING is subjected to Christ that God will be all in all. It is also the same scripture that says that AS IN ADAM all die, EVEN SO IN CHRIST shall all be made alive. So we can add death to the list of things which include man's rule and authority (which dictates unbelief in Christ), which shall be eliminated, because they contribute a feeble resistance to God being all in all.

If there is no death, there is no STING of death, and.....guess what....no more second death.

Wait a minute, Seth, are you saying that when death is destroyed, no more lake of fire? Of course! Because Revelation 22 simply describes the difference between the Bride and those who are not in the Bride, but Revelation 22 NEVER describes itself as as 1 Cor 15 does: "then comes the end."

Yeah Seth, you are right, I just sorta assumed that Revelation 22 was the end because the Bible guys put the book last in order in the KJV rather than 1 Cor 15.

But you are right, between Revelation 22, and Apostle Paul, he is the only one said that when the actual END comes = no more death, and since death is an enemy, then the second death cannot be allowed to continue...in the end.

Now when the last enemy is destroyed - again DEATH -  it makes perfect sense to say that when God says he will be all in all, He never limits himself in context, and in fact uses the context to make sure to include all mankind.

[ChosenofGod37]

Willie,

JESUS said they would die in their SINS, ...He did not SAY they would not be SAVED!  That, dear friend is YOUR ASSUMPTION...

COG: Ok, show me in the bible where someone dies in their sins and their sins are forgiven.

COG: Congrats willie, you and the traditional Roman Catholic Church hold to similiar doctrines..They call it purgatory.


I'm not a Calvinist. That is a man made label and I don't wear it. I'm a born again child of God. The bible calls them Christians.

[Beloved Servant]

Thanks Seth,
It always confounds me how the Lord's simple message of salvation can be such a convoluted mass of doctrine.
People wonder where Satan is ???
In the man-made churches -religions of God, that's where!
Where else would the adversary be found?

[willieH]

COG: Congrats willie, you and the traditional Roman Catholic Church hold to similiar doctrines..They call it purgatory.

:Yeahright:  Been into the spirits haveya there COG?  :Party: :beerburp:  Now you resort to IMAGINARY and INVENTED things... Please quote where I have stated doctrine similar to the RCC... Of course you cannot... :rolleye:

:laughing7: Just resorting to blabbing your babble out of your south end...  :laugh:  Please don't breathe my way!   :feint:

:dbook:  Sorry, but anyone reading (beside yourself) can easily see I have said no such thing. (with these empty comments, you establish that you cannot read, pity...   :crywipe:)

In fact, I have stated NO "CONDITIONING" is even NECESSARY for SIN which has been TAKEN AWAY from the WHOLE WORLD... as is PLAINLY reported by the WORD:  John 1:29 -- which WORD,  unfortunately for you, ...YOU do NOT BELIEVE...  :sigh:

You being deaf of EAR cannot Hear, nor apparently, ...can you read either, as you report your blindness with continuing IGNORANCE of CLEAR statements made in plain English...

Where are your "AFTERLIFE" verses COG?  Having a little trouble locating, ...even, ...ONE?  :laughing7:

How about the PURPOSE of GOD, don't even know that either, doya? ...what a pitiful excuse of a "theologian" do you portray...  Pretty sad... :pitiful:

...willieH  :HeartThrob:

[ChosenofGod37]

Willie,

In fact, I have stated NO "CONDITIONING" is even NECESSARY for SIN which has been TAKEN AWAY from the WHOLE WORLD... as is PLAINLY reported by the WORD:  John 1:29 -- which WORD,  unfortunately for you, ...YOU do NOT BELIEVE...  Sigh

COG: Oh really? Been taken away, huh? Then why did you make this comment?

JESUS said they would die in their SINS, ...He did not SAY they would not be SAVED!  That, dear friend is YOUR ASSUMPTION...

COG: How can your sins be taken away if you die in them?

[willieH]

I'm not a Calvinist. That is a man made label and I don't wear it. I'm a born again child of God. The bible calls them Christians.

There are only THREE instances in the WORD where MEN called other MEN -- "Christians"...

GOD never calls His people by this title in the WORD... and neither did CHRIST... so it is a label of MEN... used by men...

Your doctrine IS CALVINIST... and as you would label me a "UNIVERSALIST" because you view my stand (belief in the SALVATION of ALL MEN), as being "UNIVERSALIST",

I in turn label YOU a CALVINIST, for you are ALIGNED With CALVINISM, ...NOT the WORD... for if you were aligned with the WORD you would be a UNIVERSALIST...  :laughing7:  For the Bible teaches THROUGHOUT it, the RECONCILIATION of ALL...

Since GOD called His people... "my people" -- I will accept being called that and,
Since CHRIST called His followers "disciples" -- I will accept being called that and,
Since GOD called His people... "His Children" -- I will accept being called that... other than these, I abstain from labels.  You are welcome to label yourself anything you like, but just a label means nothing...

Believing in the WORD -- AS it is WRITTEN, without alteration is what a TRUE believer does, you do NOT do this... YOU ADD, SUBTRACT, and embellish... seldom using the WORD at all... Using your own words OFTEN...

Found any verses that note "AFTERLIFE" yet?   :dontknow:

Have you figured out the PURPOSE of GOD yet? :dunno: 

Of course you haven't...  :laughing7:

...willieH  :icon_king:

[willieH]

COG: How can your sins be taken away if you die in them?

I've already explained this, and you didn't GET IT... Deaf ears hear not...

No point in re-explaining it to you, you still wouldn't, ...GET IT!  :mnah:

Have you got a hearing aid yet?  :laughing7:

...willieH  :HeartThrob:

[ChosenofGod37]

Willie,
Tell me again and show me from scripture where the sins of the wicked are forgiven after they die. I put my hearing aid in. thanks.

[j.]

Willie,
Tell me again and show me from scripture where the sins of the wicked are forgiven after they die. I put my hearing aid in. thanks.

From my count, you have been shown this multiple times in multiple threads. The Bible is extremely clear (especially Paul) that the cross of Christ was sufficient, once for all. Sin was forgiven at the cross, period. "Behold, the Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world", period.

My goodness, read Hebrews chapters 8 and 10. Those chapters alone will show you that He "remembers our sins no more". Either that, or the author of Hebrews was a liar, and so were the OT authors he was quoting.

My bet is that neither of them lied, God is indeed the Savior of ALL mankind, and that the problem of sin has been dealt with, once for all.   

[eaglesway]

Eph 4:8-11  Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.  (9)  (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?  (10)  He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)  (11)  And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

1Pe 3:18-20  For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:  (19)  By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;  (20)  Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.


1Pe 4:5-6  Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.  (6)  For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. These verses allow for the repentence of the wicked after having been judged in the flesh (death)as men for their disobedience, then hearing the gospel in their holding cells in Sheol, clearly men, clearly once disobedient, clearly once judged by death

Php 2:10-11  That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;  (11)  And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Who is under the earth? You can assert that this indicates a forceful submission for some about to perish and a free one for others about to live....but the verses themselves do not say anything like that, rather that it is a confession to the glory of God the Father.

Col 1:16-20  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:  (17)  And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.  (18)  And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.  (19)  For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;  (20) And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Which of the "all things" did he not create? Over which of the "all things" is He not pre-eminent? What then, of the "all things" He created, will He not reconcile, when the Word says He will reconcile "all things", "who works all things according to the counsel of His will"?

Eph 1:9-12  Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:  (10)  That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:  (11)  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:  (12)  That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.




Lam 3:31-34  For the Lord will not cast off for ever:  (32)  But though he cause grief, yet will he have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies.  (33)  For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men.  (34)  To crush under his feet all the prisoners of the earth,

Luk 12:58-59  When thou goest with thine adversary to the magistrate, as thou art in the way, give diligence that thou mayest be delivered from him; lest he hale thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and the officer cast thee into prison.  (59)  I tell thee, thou shalt not depart thence, till thou hast paid the very last mite.
There are term limits and appropriate measure to the punishments of God some many stripes some few, even as the rewards of God are appropriate and measured, "greater resurrection(Heb 11:35), five cities, ten cities etc."

[333]

Chance meaning being preached the gospel and the Father drawing you to salvation

.

No sinners cannot inheit the Kingdom of God. They cannot receive it. They cannot see it. Nada.  But when they are no longer sinners they sure can. 

In first and second Peter it tells of how Jesus entered into "spiritual prisons" and preached to the ones lost in the flood at the time of Noah.  These ones were surely "physically dead".  Their bodies were dead dead dead.  But "they themselves were in spiritual prisons".  They did not walk with God before physical death of their mortal bodies.  But Jesus preached to them "after physical death". 

Now we know that God is Love.  Jesus was God manifest in the flesh.  What did Jesus preach? What did He command we preach? Nothing but the "good news" !! Jesus did not preach anything except "the good news".  Jesus did not go into the spiritual prisons to gloat, to preach a "I told you so message" or a message of doom.  That was not His nature or character.  The only reason to enter into spiritual prisons to preach to those who had died previously would of been to "preach good news" to them.  To tell them that about how He was crucified and through HIS SHED BLOOD on the cross, they have forgiveness because HE DIED FOR THE SINS OF THE WORLD! Not for some of the world or part of it but for all of it.  If you truly read 1st and 2nd Peter, asking the Lord Himself to interpret it for you , you will see EXACTLY what Jesus preached to them.  And it was ALL good news!! Jesus never preached anything but. 

No God is not a God of chances.  But I know from my own experience that through many many years of "having seeds planted" into my spirit, many times over , precept by precept, He drew me to Himself.  I did not come to Christ the first or the tenth time I heard about Jesus.  The first time I was eight.  When I came to Christ I was 22.  So 14 years of planting seeds and watering them , drawing me unto Himself before I surrended myself to Christ Jesus.  That does not mean I had multiple chances.  It merely means that for 14 years God was drawing me unto Himself. 

God says "I will have ALL men saved".  Either we believe Him or we don't.  Our unbelief does not change truth.  Nor does truth hang on our unbelief.  If the statement that "I will have All men saved" is not truth then God is a liar and nothing in the bible can be believed.  And even the belief of heaven and hell is a lie.

I myself beleive that salavation is a process.  And just as there are "spiritual prisons" there are "realms" in God's Kingdom.  These ones that were preached to in the spiritual prisons would receive Christ Jesus and forgiveness of sins but then must go on to complete the process of salvation even after death the same as we who are living and have been saved must go through a "growing up process".  Justification, sanctification, glorification.  I would much rather go through it here on earth before death but that is not always the case. 

The bible says that when we were saved we "received power to BECOME sons of God". Paul says to strive to "achieve" the "PRIZE OF THE HIGH CALLING" of God to become sons of God to sit with Him in His throne to rule and reign with Him" There is deffinately a process we must all go through to "receive the Prize of the High Calling".  The bible also says that "all will be saved but some will suffer loss".

Me thinks we don't look high enough to truly see God.  The Kingdom of God is "within" and if this is so then ALL THINGS PERTAINING TO THE KINGDOM is also "within". 

You must go deep within yourself to even see God.  To know God. To hear God.  From that place where deep calls upon deep. 

Do not lean on your own understanding.  Let the SPIRIT of the Living Christ who is dwelling "within" you , interpret the scriptures for you.  Then and only then will you receive TRUTH.  Which is JESUS CHRIST.  It is NOT a bunch of facts with which to argue bible scriptures with.  Truth is a person. 

Truth is Truth and changes not. 

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: AMEN eaglesway and 333.........and again, welcome to the board.  :thumbsup:  :goodpost: Blessings....

[WhiteWings]

J,

agreed, Christ's death was timeless (Rev13:8) but the elect need to come to repentance and faith in Jesus for it to be applied. (Galatians 4-7)

So God had/has a plan. He has elected people. He sent Jesus to die in a horrible way so His elect can have His grace applied. And now He's hoping the elect repenent otherwise His plan failed? = Missed the mark = God sinned.

"Thy Will Be Done"
Who's will is that about? The elect deciding if the will or will not repent?

[HartleyDamboiseII]

I just want to say thanks to you ALL because I am learning from ALL. again Thanks
Lee :thumbsup:

[Tim B]

:cloud9: AMEN eaglesway and 333.........and again, welcome to the board.  :thumbsup:  :goodpost: Blessings....

Agreed! Good jobs guys! And welcome!  :reachout:

Good job too Willie and Seth! As always, I enjoy your posts!  :bigGrin: