Statements to understand UR theology. Please give biblical answers only.

[gregoryfl]

Hey Greg,

Learning from scripture by way of sound exegesis. When someone takes a  scripture out of context I will refute it.

And you do not realize that every single attempt at quoting a scripture will be out of context to you? You do realize that don't you?

[ChosenofGod37]

Greg,

I have discernment. I know proper exegesis. These qualities unfortunately are not possessed by everyone interpreting the word of God. No offense. I'm not always right and I'm always learning.

[FineLinen]

Greg,

I have discernment. I know proper exegesis. These qualities unfortunately are not possessed by everyone interpreting the word of God. No offense. I'm not always right and I'm always learning.

The strongest word for all in the Sacred Secrets is ta pavnte: it literally means the all.

#1 -Rom. 11:36

"From Him everything comes, through Him everything exists and in Him everything ends."

Ta pavnte= the all things.

Ta pavnte = in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the universe. Of everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming. From Him ta pavnte comes, through Him ta pavnte exists, and in Him ta pavnte ends.

#2. -Eph. 1:- 9-11

"He has made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. And you too, who in Him were made heirs, having been chosen beforehand in accordance with the intention of Him whose might carries out in everything the design of His own will."

The all things in the heavens, the all things in the earth, and you who once were dead in trespasses and sins. That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one, the ta pavnte en/in Christ.

Ta pavnte = in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the universe. Of everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming.

#3 -Col. 1:20

"God purposed through Him to reconcile the universe to Himself, making peace through His blood...to reconcile to Himself through Him, I say, things on earth and things in heaven. And you..."

The all things (the ta pavnte) in the heavens, the all things (the ta pavnte) in the earth, and you who once were dead in trespasses and sins. God has purposed to reconcile the universe (the ta pavnte) to Himself. The ta pavnte/ the all, encompasses the ta pavnte on the earth and the ta pavnte in the heavens. The ta pavnte= the all, the whole enchilada.

Ta pavnte = in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the universe. Of everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming.

[claypot]

Hey Greg, I have already asked Chosen if he wants sound Scriptural doctrines or if he wants only what he believes is sound Scriptural doctrine but I think he is so busy trying to convert us to his way of thinking that he hasn't answered yet.

cp

[willieH]

Hey everyone,

I know that all universalist do not agree on all the statements below, I just ask you to pick out the questions that pertain to your thinking or theology and simply give scripture references for your answers. If you refuse to answer the statements, you are telling me that you believe in a theology that does not require  you to give scripture references and you simply put your faith in something that is not biblical. How can I learn your theology without you giving direct scripture evidence of the statements below? I'm excited for you to defend and teach me from scripture the following statements below.


PLEASE GIVE BOOK ,CHAPTER AND VERSE IN THE BIBLE FOR THE FOLLOWING STATEMENTS:


    1) The sins of the wicked being forgiven in the after life. Reconciliation of ALL THINGS is already done... there is NO AFTERLIFE

    2) The wicked repenting in the after life. There is no AFTER LIFE, book, chapter & verse which notes AFTERLIFE

    3) The wicked accepting Jesus Christ in the after life. no such thing as "ACCEPTING JESUS" -- please note book, chapter & verse

    4) The wicked avoiding judgment in the after life. There is no such thing as AFTERLIFE, unScriptural term

    5) The wicked having sin "conditioned" out of them in the after life. that is not a belief I have. CHRIST took AWAY the SIN of the WORLD, don't you believe Scripture?  There is no need for something which is TAKEN AWAY to be dealt with

    6) God tormenting the wicked in the lake of fire (presumably to condition sin out of the wicked). this is the lake of Fire, enjoy

    7) The wicked getting out of the lake of fire. as I said, this is the lake of Fire, enjoy!

    8) Nor can I find anywhere that God repents of His judgment on Satan in the afterlife, or anywhere else. Satan was condemned by the Almighty in Genesis chapter three. prove satan is a being, and there IS NO "AFTERLIFE"

    9) Nor do I see any evidence that God will acquit any fallen angel ever. prove ANY "angel" has fallen (other then men)

    10) Nor do I see all peoples being saved in the after life. what "you see" is seen from blind eyes

PLEASE give book, chapter and verse to ESTABLISH these fallacies... You have brought them up, the burden of "proof" is on YOU.

Where are YOUR "biblical" refutations, CoG?  There is none given because you have none, and are admitting by the NON POSTING (ABSENCE) of them, that your beliefs are not Scripturally based... and UNSUBSTANCIATED

You only show nothing by posting such "statements"... What you need to do, is to post YOUR beliefs, and then SUPPORT them Scripturally...

You FAIL to do so, herein... so your grade (so far) for this topic is:   F

I'll answer this post more in DETAIL, tomorrow... can't wait, canya!  :laughing7:

...willieH  :laughing7:

[ChosenofGod37]

Willie,

By viewing your answers, no offense, your doctrines are a complete train wreck. This thread is for you to prove UR biblically and not with human reason. Your views are quite different from your UR colleagues.

[Beloved Servant]

Please don't speak for others regarding their views of WillieH.
How do you know what I think?

[ChosenofGod37]

Hey Beloved Servant,

Just stating the truth. Seth, Paul, and others believe in a temporary aionios hell.

[Beloved Servant]

Wait, are you saying that Willie's views are different than Seth's and Paul's or the same?

[ChosenofGod37]

Willie answered,
5) The wicked having sin "conditioned" out of them in the after life. that is not a belief I have. CHRIST took AWAY the SIN of the WORLD, don't you believe Scripture?  There is no need for something which is TAKEN AWAY to be dealt with

To my knowledge both Seth and Paul believe this while Willie says he does not. I may be wrong.

[claypot]

Wait, are you saying that Willie's views are different than Seth's and Paul's or the same?

Hey BeServ,

I think cogs questions are good for others that will come upon these threads so in that way cog is doing Gods service.

cogs evasive and devisive techniques are for one purpose only IMO and that is to generate frustration and division. Also IMO cog wants to saturate this forum with total nonsense and confusion.

I cannot, from all I've read, see that cog is operating with the Spirit of God in any manner.

Just my opinion.

cp

[Beloved Servant]

CP,
The irony of it all is that he answered his own question to this thread in his last post:
"CHRIST took AWAY the SIN of the WORLD."

[willieH]

Willie,

By viewing your answers, no offense, your doctrines are a complete train wreck. This thread is for you to prove UR biblically and not with human reason. Your views are quite different from your UR colleagues.

More worthless UNSUBSTANCIATED words without Scriptural refutation.

I SHALL address YOUR proposals in the OP... Let's see which of us ends up in a "train wreck"  :bigGrin:

As far as my views, you have yet to KNOW them... They are very DETAILED and are SCRIPTURALLY based, :nod: ...unlike your SCRIPTURELESS presentations...  :pitiful:

...willieH :happy3:

[willieH]

Hey Mosh,

All in All. 1 cor 15:28

I believe  Christ will continue to rule because His reign is eternal, but He will reign in His former, full and glorious place within the Trinity, subject to God in the way eternally designed for Him in full Trinitarian glory.

More NON Scriptural blab...

Book, chapter and verse where (1) this "trinity" is mentioned, OR (2)  this purported and falsely asserted -- "trinitarian glory"...

...willieH  :icon_king:

[ChosenofGod37]

Willie,

God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.

[willieH]

willieH: Howdee "CoG37" -- :hithere:

Before I begin, I am NOT a "universalist"... that is a label which many ORTHODOX Babylonians like to attach to those who believe that God shall SAVE ALL MEN... and like the label "Christian"... I abstain from its attachment to me so that I might separate myself TOTALLY from ORTHODOX thinking...  :happygrin:

Hey everyone,

I know that all universalist do not agree on all the statements below, I just ask you to pick out the questions that pertain to your thinking or theology and simply give scripture references for your answers. If you refuse to answer the statements, you are telling me that you believe in a theology that does not require  you to give scripture references and you simply put your faith in something that is not biblical.

Listen to who is talking... You have already been called out on NON-BIBLICAL terminologies and LACK of SCRIPTURAL presentations, ...and have YET to prove those false assertions with SCRIPTURE, so don't try laying more of your false suppositions upon us even before any replies have even been given.  We are not REQUIRED to answer ANY of your "statements"... and deciding to "shine them on" (love that 60's slang), is our own individual prerogative.

How can I learn your theology without you giving direct scripture evidence of the statements below? I'm excited for you to defend and teach me from scripture the following statements below.

The TRUTH does NOT need to be defended.  And the question really IS, ...are you GENUINELY interested in "LEARNING"?  For you CERTAINLY cannot be "TAUGHT" unless, you have a GENUINE wish to "LEARN".  :dontknow:

That said, are you really being honest in your opening here CoG37?  That you wish to be TAUGHT and to LEARN?  :dontknow:

Or is your motive of another sort?  :dontknow:  You are not playing with UNLEARNED children here, as you shall find out!  :thumbdown:

I will take your "statements" one at a time and SCRIPTURALLY show that they are FALSE in their presentation and ASSUMPTION... here goes:

PLEASE GIVE BOOK ,CHAPTER AND VERSE IN THE BIBLE FOR THE FOLLOWING STATEMENTS:

    1) The sins of the wicked being forgiven in the after life.

FIRST -- You begin with an assumption based upon a premise which is UNBIBLICAL... the idea of "afterlife" is NOT found in Scripture.  Also... The mission of CHRIST was outlined in the beginning of John, which notes:

John 1:29 -- behold the LAMB of God which TAKETH AWAY, the SIN of the ...WORLD...

To begin with, something which is "TAKEN AWAY", is no longer present.  If the SIN of the WORLD is "taken away" (which is WHAT is STATED in this verse)... then it is no longer an ISSUE which must be dealt with... the FORGIVENESS for SIN, is found in it being "TAKEN AWAY"...  This is the foundation upon which GRACE is established, and is ELEMENTARY in the understandings of the SPIRITUAL LOVE of CHRIST which PASSES KNOWLEDGE -- Eph 3:19  -- ORTHODOX believers such as yourself, are yet stuck in the CANALITY of the LAW which notes the CONDEMNING of an EYE for an EYE...

SECOND -- you seem to think yourself and "your sins" as other than "wicked", and make the ASSUMPTION that God shall deal with the SINS of others, in a DIFFERENT manner than you percieve He deals with YOURS...  This in itself is an assumption based upon CONVENIENCE... assuming that YOU, a SINNER shall be given the GRACE of FORGIVENESS for NO REASON, and that others shall recieve UNENDING TORMENT for theirs... how CONVENIENTLY nice for you -- it sux to be them - eh?  :thumbdown:

This THOUGHTLESS THINKING, is also based upon the PURPOSELESS proposition that GOD would FOREVER TORMENT MOST of the WORLD He ...SO LOVED -- John 3:16 -- and that He was willing to sacrifice His ONLY BEGOTTEN Son to redeem, thereby NEGATING MOST of that sacrifice, rendering it INERT... and in its place, MERCILESS TORTURE is instituted which does NOT measure up with LOVE, GRACE, LOGIC or the SCRIPTURAL PURPOSE of YHVH God, as noted in the Holy WORD...

CHRIST totally erased the THOUGHTLESS SELFISHNESS of CARNAL condemnations, within the following orations:  John 8:1-11 and this one:  Matt 5:43-48

The "PHARISEEICAL order" persists in apostate "Christianity", which has distorted the TRUTH, and presents its FABLES to the WORLD (God SO LOVED) instead of the GOSPEL of GRACE and PEACE -- Rom 10:15 -- Eph 6:15 -- Col 1:20 -- insisting on such fallacies as "trinity, hell, rapture, fallen angels, vengence, fear, separations, unmerciful graceless vindications," the list is literally endless...

"PHARISEEICAL Christianity" persists in her Babylonian carnality, which willingly  IGNORES the call to COME OUT of it -- Rev 18:4

All the while, insisting on LAW which CHRIST fulfilled for ALL, becoming a RANSOM for ALL -- 1 Tim 2:6 -- tasting DEATH for EVERY MAN -- Heb 2:9 -- and which reconciled ALL which are found in Transgression here:  Col 1:20 and ...here: Rom 5:18-19

END of answer to [false and groundless] "statement" #1

Seeya in my reply to [false and groundless] "statement" #2 --  :laughing7:

...willieH  :icon_king:

[gregoryfl]

One more point that should be mentioned. The wrath of God and his justice are not shown by tormenting people forever. The wrath and his justice and mercy and love, and whatever other attribute you can think of, is all completed IN THE SON, and in him alone.

[ChosenofGod37]

Willie,

Where are the scriptures that support the sins of the wicked being forgiven after they die?  :dontknow:

All you have done is bad mouthed the body of Christ and said sin is taken away and no longer present quoting John 1:29. To qualify for your sins to be taken away..you must repent and Believe. If a person dies in their sins they have not believed in Jesus. So again, how and where are the sins of the wicked forgiven after they die.

[willieH]

PLEASE GIVE BOOK ,CHAPTER AND VERSE IN THE BIBLE FOR THE FOLLOWING STATEMENTS:

    1) The sins of the wicked being forgiven in the after life.

    2) The wicked repenting in the after life.

As I have already noted, your reference to "AFTERLIFE" is irrelevant when discussing SCRIPTURE, as it is NOT mentioned IN IT, nor is it a topic of "understanding", found within its WORDS...

What it IS, is a tool which is employed by MISLED teachers, to MISLEAD...

And is further employed to misrepresent the GOSPEL, by proposing FEAR, TORMENT and UNGODLY presentations which are NOT a part of LOVE -- 1 John 4:18 -- nor of the GOSPEL which is STRICTLY GOOD NEWS... Neither of the TWO WORDS translated GOSPEL in the NT -- Euaggelizo/Euaggelion -- expresses NEGATIVITY, on the CONTRARY... both emphasize GLAD TIDINGS! (Look'em up CoG37 -- LEARN!)

But what CAN be discussed is REPENTENCE... and WHO might be in NEED of it...

FIRST -- ALL men are called to REPENT -- Acts 17:30 -- However, REPENTENCE only comes from the LEADING and GOODNESS of GOD -- Rom 2:4... so one is fooling themselves if they think that REPENTENCE is an idea which is born of themselves...

SECOND -- we must next recognize WHEN "repentence" can be --

(1) realized and manifest [which necessitates the WORD] which can only be INSTITUTED by GOD's decision (who is NO respecter of persons) to "drag" on TO the WORD -- John 6:44 -- and,

(2) that it takes FAITH to exercise it, which FAITH is AUTHORED and COMPLETED, ...only by CHRIST [the WORD] -- Heb 12:2 --who is NO RESPECTER of PERSONS -- Acts 10:34 - Rom 2:11 (and 7 other Scriptural references which have already been noted) and,

(3) that it is without QUESTION accomplised by GOD ALONE for HE is the one who ADDS to HIS CHURCH according to HIS PURPOSE -- Acts 2:47 -- and this is NOT in any way accomplished by SINFUL men, and their carnal, egotistic and self-centered decisions... and,

(4) that it CAN and WILL occur in MEN until the conclusion of the LAST DAY, in which JUDGMENT and RESURRECTION takes place -- John 6:44 -- John 12:48 -- John 11:24 -- and,

(5) that within REPENTENCE is the CONFESSION of CHRIST which ALL shall do -- Phil 2:10-11 and,

(6)  that the CONFESSION of CHRIST as LORD, will SAVE -- Rom 10:13 -- and,

(7) that the CONFESSION of CHRIST can only be done BY the Holy SPIRIT of GOD -- 1 Cor 12:3 and,

(8) that there is NO Scriptural evidence that notes this CONFESSION and REPENTENCE must be done within or during the PHYSICAL LIFESPAN on earth ONLY,  ...and furthermore that ALL ISRAEL, which HAS NOT made this CONFESSION unto Salvation are stated to be SAVED -- Rom 11:26

Enough on REPENTENCE... If you don't get it, ...you don't get it.  :dontknow:

...willieH  :happygrin:   

[willieH]

Willie,

God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.

"GOD the SON"?

Please note BOOK, CHAPTER and VERSE that notes "GOD the SON"

Also, please note the BOOK, CHAPTER and VERSE that notes there is a "trinity"

As well as BOOK, CHAPTER and VERSE that notes there are 3 "persons" which act as GOD...

...willieH  :happy3:

[ChosenofGod37]

Willie,

Where are the scriptures that support the sins of the wicked being forgiven after they die? 

All you have done is bad mouthed the body of Christ and said sin is taken away and no longer present quoting John 1:29. To qualify for your sins to be taken away..you must repent and Believe. If a person dies in their sins they have not believed in Jesus. So again, how and where are the sins of the wicked forgiven after they die.

[Beloved Servant]

Cog,
It seems you have too many irons in the fire and can not keep up with everyone that has asked you questions.
Poor planning that you should keep in mind for the next Web site you plan to visit.

[gregoryfl]

Sin has been taken away, finished. Therefore there is no such thing as the wicked having sins forgiven at any time in the future. That took place on the cross. Everyone, as God directs, will believe and come to see what has already taken place for them on that cross. That is the reason we are told by Paul that we "see no one after the flesh, not even Jesus." Our determination is to see everyone through the eyes of the cross and the new creation, who they are now, not who they used to be.

Ron

[ChosenofGod37]

Greg, You must repent and believe in Jesus as Lord to have your sins taken away in this lifetime or other wise you die in your sins. Jesus said:

John 8:24 " Therefore, I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins"

[gregoryfl]

Yes, and he spoke that before the Cross. There are many things spoken of before the cross that the cross accomplished. Before the cross, we had to "keep the commandments" in order to inherit eternal life. No longer the case. Before the cross, we had to forgive those who sin against us in order to be forgiven by God. No longer the case. He was speaking to those under the law and thus, while that law was still in effect, he spoke in such a way as to bring them to the end of themselves, realizing that they could not do the things he said. He did it on the cross.

Ron