1 Timothy 4:10 Does this teach Jesus is The Savior of everyone who has lived?

[rosered]

Weymouth:

2:29 But the true Jew is one inwardly, and true circumcision is heart-circumcision--not literal, but spiritual; and such people receive praise not from men, but from God.

excellent ! :thumbsup:

  the true Jew is born from above  :HeartThrob:

[FineLinen]

Hey Everyone,

1 Timothy 4:10

The idea that " God is the Savior of all men" means that all who have ever lived will be saved. This of course  is contrary to all sound doctrine.

I believe 1 Timothy 4:10 teaches that we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people ( showing mercy to all each and every day they live) , especially of those who believe ( who receive full salvation from His wrath and everlasting life)..

Look forward to your responses. God bless.

Our God is the Saviour of all mankind, not the potential Saviour, He is the Saviour of all! But wait: He is the Saviour "especially" of those who believe.

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=6082.0

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=6082.0

[reFORMer]

Cp,

Read the whole chapter 11 of Romans, Cp. focus on verses 4-10

Romans 11:26 teaches all the elect Jewish people alive at the end of the Tribulation, not the believing remnant of Jews within the church during this church age.

No such qualifying terminology is to be found in connection with the topic of Israel or Judaism, nor in the passages of Scripture to which you allude.  "Church age" is not a Biblical phrase.  God's plan centers on the Eclessia and that will never change, certainly not to revert to a lesser expression of His kingdom in the earth.  Racial dispensationalism, the source of much confusion, seems to have infected your thinking on these matters.  It promotes another unbiblcal phrase you've inserted here to make void the word of God.  There is no "seven years great tribulation" in the Bible; therefore, it is eliminated from the scheme of whatever we may expect to transpire in the future.

The tribulation coming in the close of this age is upon the wicked and occurs when the Overcomers are coming to be revealed, ruling in all the earth.  It is, "...whenever He may be coming to be glorified in His saints and to be marveled at in all who believe..." (1 Th 1:10, CLT)  The inner glory of God in us will be unveiled.  We are seated with Christ in the heavenly realms.  Jesus is revealed from whence He dwells:  within us.  "Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ..." (1 Th 1:6-8, AV)

[ChosenofGod37]

Hey Reformer,

There is no "seven years great tribulation" in the Bible;

Read Daniel 9:24-27.

[Seth]

TITUS 3:10

There is a good reason for it.

[willieH]

willieH: CoG37 -- :pitiful:

Many of the membership here are more tactful than I... but I have a hard time with folks such as yourself which propose the DARKNESS of FEAR, ...in the place of the LIGHT of  LOVE, and which propose THEMSELVES as "selected" for Salvation, while others are just, NOT! ...how focused upon "SELF" is that?  :sigh:

No one is dragged to salvation. That is a distorted view of sovereign election.

Talk about DISTORTING... so far, that seems to be all you are able to do CoG37!  :sigh:

I call the above statement you have made, ...a LIE... it is contrary to what IS stated in the WORD of God... For God is not WILLING that ANY PERISH... 2 Pet 3:9

ANYONE and EVERYONE who is "SAVED", is DRAGGED... For a SINNER by nature,  loves the DARKNESS that is indulged, and that produces "SIN"... and IN that SINFUL state, is UNABLE to COME, nor is even inclined to do so... :mnah:

Scripture says this about that:

John 6:44 -- no man CAN come to me except the Father DRAW him and I will raise him up at the last day...

Okay --->

(1) Man cannot COME of himself, He must be DRAGGED [HELKUO] to the Savior...

(2) the word "DRAW" in this verse is DRAG in the Greek -- Look it up CoG37... that is, ...if it is your desire to LEARN -- :dontknow: -- #G1670 [strongs] HELKUO -- to ...DRAG... 

(3) if salvation were to be as you suppose it to be -- a choose "this one", but not "that one" scenario, ...then God is REDUCED to being a respecter of persons, being therefore, partial to one LUMP of dirt as opposed to another... not to mention a LIAR which falsely claims IMPARTIALITY...  :pitiful: 

I say He is NOT a LIAR, nor is He PARTIAL to YOU or any other human being!  :thumbdown:

Your Calvinistic vision, is completely selfish, and fails pathetically, for "PARTIALITY" goes against ALL the principles of FAITH, GIVING, and the stated desires of the WILL of GOD, setting oneself up as "special" above others for NO REASON... and is against ALL the Scriptural notations I have already noted...

Give me ONE REASON why GOD should SAVE YOU, CoG37... and not an ATHIEST. 

If you say that it is because YOU BELIEVE... then you are crediting YOURSELF, not Him...

If you say the GOD has given you the ability to BELIEVE and WILL NOT (in due time) give the same unto the ATHIEST, then you make Him and His WORD a lie...  :thumbdown:

Hebrews 9:27 Judgment is just that. No second chances. When you die you are going to be judged rather or not you stand in the righteousness of Jesus or your own filthy rags self-righteousness. Depending on which righteousness you stand in is where you will be ( Hades or Heaven) until the final judgment (Rev 20:11-15).

There is NO such thing as a "1st CHANCE", let alone a "2nd CHANCE" -- CoG37!  Where do you get off noting that ANYTHING that GOD does is by "CHANCE"? :rolleye:  Please!

Note to US the Scriptural basis for "CHANCE", ...either 1st or 2nd...  :dontknow:

More ADDITION from you...  :thumbdown:

This is such "spiritual short sightedness", that it is not even worthy to be addressed... :mnah:

LOGIC itself is against this thinking... for GOD who is ALMIGHTY, didnt have to DO any of this... But He chose to do it... (create the human race and the basis for it's subsequent doings)

That HE decided the parameters of SIN and HE decided to conclude us ALL as descendents of ADAM, to be SINNERS, does not fall to us to bring a CONCLUSION concerning LIFE! What did YOU decide concerning THIS LIFE, CoG37?  Did YOU pick the ERA you would LIVE in?  Did YOU pick your parents? Your siblings? The country and city you would be born in?  The RACE you would be?  Gender?  Did YOU have to decide to LIVE before beginning LIFE as a baby?  Give me a break dude... you have thought little before opening your mouth.  :wacko2:

As your sorrowFILLED vision of CHRIST, ...for the most part notes Him to be: 

(1) a respecter of persons for NO reason  :thumbdown:

(2) a failure which did NOT accomplish the mission to SAVE the WORLD that God SO LOVED -- John 3:16

(3) Leaves the Father eternally empty as His desire for ALL to be SAVED -- 2 Pet 3:9 -- is somehow negated by SINFUL men...  :sigh:

(4) Notes that He in fact DID NOT take "away" the SIN of the WORLD, only of the chosen, for the rest to "fry" in forever... John 1:29

(5) Notes LOVE to be a facade... and Divine MERCY to be limited to PARTIALITY...

Methinks you are just a novice in Scriptural knowledge, and completely unable to respond... which is why you avoid responding... As reFORMer noted, you must first distort what IS WRITTEN, and compose it in such a manner as suits your RELIGION, then you take what YOU have written, and suppose to pass it off here @ TM... 

It is quite obvious, that the membership here is far more studied than yourself bro... so don't think to pass off your -- "re-written" versions of Scripture... :mnah:

:omg:  ...a word of CAUTION to you, that the JUDGMENT of YHVH shall note all these wreckless ADDITIONS and SUBTRACTIONS you have posted quite UNFAVORABLY, if you are smart, you will cease this practice, for you only ADD Judgment upon yourself, and SUBTRACT the approvals of God... to shame which will avail them -- Rev 3:18 -- :pitiful:

...willieH  :icon_king:

[Molly]

The tribulation coming in the close of this age is upon the wicked and occurs when the Overcomers are coming to be revealed, ruling in all the earth.  It is, "...whenever He may be coming to be glorified in His saints and to be marveled at in all who believe..." (1 Th 1:10, CLT)  The inner glory of God in us will be unveiled.  We are seated with Christ in the heavenly realms.  Jesus is revealed from whence He dwells:  within us.  "Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ..." (1 Th 1:6-8, AV)

I can hardly wait for this to happen. 

[ChosenofGod37]

Hey Willie,

No offense, Methinks your blinded by your pride and arrogance as the day is long. That is what methinks. :winkgrin:

BTW, You are more than welcome to answer any of the 10 statements to teach me your theology biblically and with sound interpretation. But I have a feeling you won't be doing that anytime soon. God bless. :thumbsup:

[willieH]

willieH: Hey! -- CoG37 --  :grin:

Hey Willie,

No offense, Methinks your blinded by your pride and arrogance as the day is long. That is what methinks. :winkgrin:

You only display the juvenile state in which your "knowledge" resides bro...

Your whole view is DEFEAT not victory... It is PARTIALITY not IMPARTIALITY... contrary to Scripture as it is WRITTEN...  :dontknow:

For in order to establish your views, you must RE-WRITE SCRIPTURE to suit your selfish beliefs, and afterwards, ...YOU call ME arrogant?  :pointlaugh:  Please...  :laughing7:

I am only percieved as "BLIND" in "your sight" -- because you observe Spiritual things with carnal eyes...

If you really had the knowledge that you propose you have, you would have responded to my posts point by point, responding to the Scriptures I noted,  ...instead you resort to name calling as a distraction hoping to disguise your lack...  :sigh:

Which, btw... only plainly verifies what I noted as what, "methinks"... :nod:

...willieH  :icon_king:

[ChosenofGod37]

BTW, You are more than welcome to answer any of the 10 statements to teach me your theology biblically and with sound interpretation. But I have a feeling you won't be doing that anytime soon. God bless.  :sigh: :dontknow: :mblush:

Methinks you take scriptures out of context and stick funny faces next to them. :laughing7:

[willieH]

BTW, You are more than welcome to answer any of the 10 statements to teach me your theology biblically and with sound interpretation. But I have a feeling you won't be doing that anytime soon. God bless.  :sigh: :dontknow: :mblush:

Methinks you take scriptures out of context and stick funny faces next to them. :laughing7:

More nothing from you...   :sigh:

Like I said, avoiding is what you do best... :nod: ...oh yeah, ...and unoriginality, don't forget UNORIGINALITY!  :laughing7:

Btw... what SCRIPTURE notes that "CONTEXT" is a demand of the WORD? 

If you KNEW Spiritual things, you would KNOW that the entire WORD is a SINGLE CONTEXT...  :dontknow:

...willieH  :cloud9:

[ChosenofGod37]

willie said,
Btw... what SCRIPTURE notes that "CONTEXT" is a demand of the WORD?

Ohhhh, Now I see why Willie's interpretations are all over the place, Makes sense. :mshock:

[willieH]

BTW, You are more than welcome to answer any of the 10 statements to teach me your theology biblically and with sound interpretation. But I have a feeling you won't be doing that anytime soon. God bless.  :sigh: :dontknow: :mblush:

Methinks you take scriptures out of context and stick funny faces next to them. :laughing7:

10 statements? You claim to know 10 things about the Bible?  So far you have shown you know nothing except how to ADD or SUBTRACT from what IS WRITTEN in the WORD, ...but by all means... bring up the other nine...  :laughing7:

I'm willing to debate you on ANY premise you might like to offer within your "knowledge", ...CoG37!  Name it, I'll be there... Let's see what other things, you don't know...  :laughhand:

Just tell me where to go... (and please don't mention the MYTHICAL "HELL" that you believe in  :laughing7:)

Name yo' game bro...   :afFro:  :dontknow:

...willieH  :icon_king:

[willieH]

willie said,
Btw... what SCRIPTURE notes that "CONTEXT" is a demand of the WORD?

Ohhhh, Now I see why Willie's interpretations are all over the place, Makes sense. :mshock:

I notice you FAILED, ...to note the SCRIPTURE upon which you base your "theological" requirement of CONTEXT...

Where is it CoG37?  Having trouble locating it areya?  :laugh:

I'll be waiting for you to post it... but please, ...don't expect me to hold my breath while I wait!  :laughing7:

Hurry up though, after all, I'm 64 and time is running out...  but even if I live to be 80, you will still be looking for it --  :grin:

...willieH  :icon_king:

[ChosenofGod37]

Willie,

right here on the homepage bro under statements to understand UR. knock yourself out.

[willieH]

Willie,

right here on the homepage bro under statements to understand UR. knock yourself out.

How evasive can you be...  :thumbdown: You do not "KNOW" how to be forthright.  :sigh:

"homepage"?... be specific and name the forum and/or reply to which you "named" your "TEN statements"

I have grandchildren less cryptic...  :pitiful:

...willieH  :icon_king:

[ChosenofGod37]

Willie,

ohhh boy. click on Discussions on Universalism Salvation then click on statements to understand Ur.

[willieH]

Willie,

ohhh boy. click on Discussions on Universalism Salvation then click on statements to understand Ur.

I found it on my own and as of NOW, you have several replies from me (with more to come)...  :laughing7:

So much for your statement:

"BTW, You are more than welcome to answer any of the 10 statements to teach me your theology biblically and with sound interpretation. But I have a feeling you won't be doing that anytime soon."

You aren't much of a "prophet" are you? :mnah:  :laughing7:

...willieH  :happy3:

[reFORMer]

Hey Reformer,

There is no "seven years great tribulation" in the Bible;

Read Daniel 9:24-27.

The term "tribulation" is not there at all.  It is a translation of the Hebrew way of writing numbers.  The number of years taken together are one of the most exact prophecies concerning the coming of the Messiah.  At the beginning of the last seven years Jesus commences His ministry, He, "the annointed Prince is cut off in the midst of the week" and having made the sacrifice of Himself, entered into the true tabernacle which is in the heavens with His own blood; thus, "causing the sacrifice and oblation to cease."  At the end of the last seven years, Stephen is martyred.  So we have displayed the ministry of Christ the Seed and Head and the ministry of Christ the firstfuit crop and His body.

Daniel 9:24-27 ?  Nothing there about tribualtion of any kind.  "Seven years great tribulation" is entirely lacking.

Get a magnifying glass! and stop just repeating what you've been told by others who are only repeating what they were taught.  Look for yourself.  When you give an account to God you aren't justified by saying I gave my mind away to this teacher or that group.  God gave you capacities to learn and grow in critical thinking.  You have a conscience.  What is or is not written in Scripture should be what is decisive for our confession of faith; that, and the presence of God is our authority.  Many have never been taught to use concordances to implement the authority of Scripture.  If you don't know what is written or not, there is no authority.  His word, and it worked into our lives is what God annoints.

[FineLinen]

1 Cor 15:22 "For just as in Adam all die, in the same way also in Christ all will be given life."

This Scripture teaches that all "in Adam" (non-believers) die, all "in Christ" ( believers) are made alive ( born again)

Another words, all who die in their sins die "in Adam" all who believe "in Christ" are given life.. You don't want to die in Adam.

37: You most assuredly do not know the scope of pas/all. All die, all are made alive in the Lord Jesus Christ.

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=1463.0

[Molly]

Get a magnifying glass!

LOL!  that made me laugh.

Seriously, could you illustrate how these weeks apply to the Messiah?  Because there is so much confusion out there about these passages, and how they are the 7 year tribulation (mostly from the left behind series and baptist teaching), that everyone thinks it is something that will happen in the future.  And, I find it impossible to understand, myself, written, as it is, in code.

[ChosenofGod37]

Below is a fantastic commentary of the interpretation of 1 Tim 4:1O

realize the "usual" translation invites a "universalist" interpretation,

    Does it? We don't think so. The word μάλιστα is singling out "those who believe" (Greek "πιστῶν") as the specific portion of "all men". He is the savior of all humanity, the Apostle is saying, but then he modifies the term "all humanity" by adding a modifier, which is that Jesus is the savior to the benefit of a "very high point on a scale of extent" — in other words, to the benefit of a SUBSET of "all men". That subset is the group that believes. Given the narrowness of the scale of intent demonstrated by this superlative adverb, we didn't feel that using the adverb "especially" suited the context of μάλιστα especially well (uh, pardon the pun...). So we used "that is" instead.

but doesn't the choice you've made amount to "taking sides" theologically?

    Quite the opposite. Since we don't think μάλιστα implies any universalism, but rather is specifically REFUTING universalism (since Jesus is called the savior of those who believe[!] and not just of all humanity), we're attempting to remove the taking sides that takes place if one renders μάλιστα as "especially" in 1 Timothy 4:10. Also, Paul's use of μάλιστα is taking sides! He's saying that Jesus is the savior of a specific subset of "all humanity" (πάντων ἀνθρώπων), that is, he's the savior of "believers" (πιστῶν).

[peacemaker]

Below is a fantastic commentary ...

Crime occurs principally in large cities, but not exclusively!

peacemaker

[Seth]

Sorry CoG37, 1 Tim 4:10 clearly states that Jesus is a savior even of them who do not believe. It proves that even if one does not believe, Jesus Christ is a savior to them, removing all doubt that if they do not believe, he will still save them.

You made an UNQUALIFIED leap of assumption to include the word "benefit" which does not appear in the scripture referenced. The verse does not say "to the benefit of a subset." It simply, without adding or subtracting, says that Jesus Christ is the savior of ALL men especially (ie not exclusively as you scratch and pull and stretch and torture the scripture to make it say) those who believe. Sorry.

They said: "we didn't feel that using the adverb "especially" suited the context of μάλιστα especially well (uh, pardon the pun...). So we used "that is" instead."

They didn't FEEEEL? WOW! Good thing I am not subject to what they feel. It's amazing to see the level of TWISTING that goes on.

Acts 20:38 — 38 They were especially sorrowful because of what he had said—that they would never see his face again.
They were sorrowful that he would be bound, and captured, but especially that they would never see him again, all points included.

Acts 25:26 — 26I have nothing reliable to write our Sovereign about him, so I have brought him to all of you, and especially to you, King Agrippa, so that I will have something to write after he is cross-examined. He brought them to ALL of them, but Agrippa is given special mention. Therefore not a statement of exclusivity

Acts 26:3 — 3since you are especially familiar with all the Jewish customs and controversies. I beg you, therefore, to listen patiently to me. Among other things, yet specifically referrencing his familiarity with Jewish customs, therefore not a statement of exclusivity

Galatians 6:10 — 10So then, whenever we have the opportunity, let's practice doing good to everyone, especially to the family of faith. We should do good to EVERYONE, all included, but specifically the family of faith.

Philippians 4:22 — 22All the saints, especially those of the emperor's household, greet you. ALL the saints still applies even though the the emperor's household has special mention. Not a statement of exclusivity.

1 Timothy 4:10 — 10To this end we work hard and struggle, because we have set our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, that is, especially of those who believe. ALL apply, specifically those who believe. Not a statement of exclusivity, yet is the only place they attempt it. What a sick perversion!

1 Timothy 5:17 — 17Elders who handle their duties well should be considered worthy of double compensation, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. ALL elders who handle their duties will should be paid, specifically those who work hard. Not a statement of exclusivity.

2 Timothy 4:13 — 13When you come, bring the coat I left with Carpus in Troas, as well as the scrolls and especially the parchments. Applies to both scrolls and parchments. Not a statement of exclusivity.

Titus 1:10 — 10For there are many people who are rebellious, especially those who are converts from Judaism. Applies to not only converts from Judaism but many others who are rebellious, therefore not a statement of exclusivity.

Philemon 16 — ...no longer as a slave but better than a slave—as a dear brother, especially to me, but even more so to you, both as a person and as a believer. Applies to both Paul and "you" both as a person and believer, therefore not excluding either the proper name "Paul" or pronoun "you" in the statement.


Reference: http://isv.org/catacombs/1_timothy_4v10_especially.htm

Sorry bro, one of these things is NOT like the others. Your friends TWIST.  :laughing7: -- 

Q: "1 Timothy 4:10 Does this teach Jesus is The Savior of everyone who has lived"

A: Yes.

[Shawn_71]

I clearly do not buy you exegesis 37. Nice try.