Statements to understand UR theology. Please give biblical answers only.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Paul,

The Gr. word for "confess"  means "to acknowledge", "affirm", or "agree" which is what everyone will eventually do in response to Christ's lordship, willingly and blessedly or unwillingly and painfully.

Please scripturally show your point as I have.   Your entitled to your commentary, but I do not have to believe you just because you say so.

This one word confess is not rightly used when you use it by itself then give non scriptural commentary to what it means.

Please use scripture that depicts a "Confession" of "Jesus as Lord" "For the Glory of God the Father" that would be a forced and painful confession that is the precursor to eternal damnation.

I simply know you cannot do it, or as you expect of others you would have been armed with those scriptures before you ever came here.

[ChosenofGod37]

Paul,

Again, this thread is for you to prove your theology to me from the word of God. Thanks.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Paul,

Again, this thread is for you to prove your theology to me from the word of God. Thanks.

I gave scriptural evidence, you responded to that scriptural evidence with explanations that you provide no scriptural match for. Saying the above does not change that.

[gregoryfl]

Dear brother,

If one is truly seeking to understand, and they do so by asking questions, I would suggest that instead of posting refutations after someone gives what they see as a biblically sound reason, just take what they say and try to understand it from their point of view. You are, after all, seeking to understand why people believe the way they do, not necessarily to agree with them. When you post a refutation, all that does is betray the very reason you say you are asking the questions. That is what I believe they are asking for here. Just let them post their response and take it to yourself so as to try to understand where they are coming from, whether you agree with it or not. Or, if you do ask further questions, perhaps ask those that bring out clarification as to any points you do not quite understand from their point of view.

Ron

[claypot]

Paul,

Again, this thread is for you to prove your theology to me from the word of God. Thanks.

Do you really think one person can prove a truth of God to another? The Spirit of God is the One who enlightens, not some puny proof of man that would be rejected in a million ways as you are proving over and over again.

Your very challenge amuses me and tells me much about yourself my friend.

cp

[ChosenofGod37]

Hey Greg,

If your theology is true than you will be able to give sound exegesis of scripture to support it. I believe Paul to be in error of his scripture support.Truth sets people free, but error enslaves. There is a truth, there is that which is "right," and God wants us to know it (1 Tim. 2:4). I just don't agree with him.

[claypot]

Hey Greg,

If your theology is true than you will be able to give sound exegesis of scripture to support it. I believe Paul to be in error of his scripture support.Truth sets people free, but error enslaves. There is a truth, there is that which is "right," and God wants us to know it (1 Tim. 2:4). I just agree with him.

See, Chosen, now you are adding to what you originally said. You originally stated you will believe only 'sound exegesis' yet now you will only believe WHAT YOU BELIEVE TO BE sound exegesis. So again I say, no person can ever give you answers to your questions that you could accept because you are already very much set in what you believe to be true.

cp

[ChosenofGod37]

Cp,

I welcome you to answer any of the 10 statements with sound scripture support. Thanks.

[claypot]

Do you mean sound Scriptural support that you believe is sound Scriptural support or just plain old sound Scriptural support?

There is a great chasm between the two so I need to know which one you mean.

Thanks.

cp

[rosered]

Hey everyone,

I know that all universalist do not agree on all the statements below, I just ask you to pick out the questions that pertain to your thinking or theology and simply give scripture references for your answers. If you refuse to answer the statements, you are telling me that you believe in a theology that does not require  you to give scripture references and you simply put your faith in something that is not biblical. How can I learn your theology without you giving direct scripture evidence of the statements below? I'm excited for you to defend and teach me from scripture the following statements below.




PLEASE GIVE BOOK ,CHAPTER AND VERSE IN THE BIBLE FOR THE FOLLOWING STATEMENTS:



    1) The sins of the wicked being forgiven in the after life. Psa 98:3 He hath remembered his mercy and his truth toward the house of Israel: all the ends of the earth have seen the salvation of our God. 
Psa 100:5 For the LORD [is] good; his mercy [is] everlasting; and his truth [endureth] to all generations. 
Psa 136:25 Who giveth food to all flesh: for his mercy [endureth] for ever. 
Psa 143:12 And of thy mercy cut off mine enemies, and destroy all them that afflict my soul: for I [am] thy servant.


    2) The wicked repenting in the after life.

    3) The wicked accepting Jesus Christ in the after life.

    4) The wicked avoiding judgment in the after life.

    5) The wicked having sin "conditioned" out of them in the after life. 1Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 

    6) God tormenting the wicked in the lake of fire (presumably to condition sin out of the wicked).

    7) The wicked getting out of the lake of fire. Isa 30:18 And therefore will the LORD wait, that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he be exalted, that he may have mercy upon you: for the LORD [is] a God of judgment: blessed [are] all they that wait for him. 


    8) Nor can I find anywhere that God repents of His judgment on Satan in the afterlife, or anywhere else. Satan was condemned by the Almighty in Genesis chapter three.

    9) Nor do I see any evidence that God will acquit any fallen angel ever.

    10) Nor do I see all peoples being saved in the after life. Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. 

  Hi C of God , I added in red some of the scriptures  that shows Gods mercy endures Forever
  I also ask you what is the  afterlife?
when one physically dies perhaps is what you mean by afterlife

   I for one have had a  time sorting out scriptures  that seem contradictory with each other 

  the one thing Jesus teaches is forgiveness of all manner of sins 
  but blaspheming the Holy Spirit
and it is NOT possible to do this unless you have been en''Light''ened

   Hear we know God is forgiving  .
I have to ask you what God would ask us to love and forgive and NOT be that way Himself ?

Psa 86:5 For thou, Lord, [art] good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee. 



Psa 130:4 But [there is] forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared. 


Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: 
Act 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand [to be] a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. 
Act 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men [and] brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: 
Act 26:18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. 


Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins: 


  What is this grace to you than ?

  thanks for  any reply
  I do not say much these days anywhere .

  :HeartThrob: Rose

[Moshood]

All Enemies shall be subjected to Christ as Christ is subjected to the Father that God may be All in All. ( 1 Corinthians 15:25-28 )

We can Logically deduce that ...

God can't be All in All unless All have been Forgiven

God can't be All in All unless All have Repented

God can't be All in All unless All have accepted Christ

God can't be All in All unless All have learned Righteousness through Judgment

God can't be All in All unless All have been Cleansed of Sin

God can't be All in All unless Death has been Destroyed

God can't be All in All unless All have been Saved

There is no Logical Alternative unless you believe God will never be All in All. Simple as that.

[ChosenofGod37]

Hey Mosh,

All in All. 1 cor 15:28

I believe  Christ will continue to rule because His reign is eternal, but He will reign in His former, full and glorious place within the Trinity, subject to God in the way eternally designed for Him in full Trinitarian glory.

The meaning has nothing to do with "God can't be All in All" unless this. No evidence for it.

hope this helps. God bless.

[Moshood]

Chosen

He must Reign ...UNTIL... contradicts that He will reign Forever. Christ Reigns for the Eons of the Eons and this harmonizes with the Fact that He Reigns ...UNTIL...

If Christ Reigns Forever and Ever then there could be no Reigning ...UNTIL... unless you believe that All Enemies shall never be Subjected to Him. Once All Enemies are Subjected to Christ He gives up the Reign to the Father.

[rosered]

Chosen

He must Reign ...UNTIL... contradicts that He will reign Forever. Christ Reigns for the Eons of the Eons and this harmonizes with the Fact that He Reigns ...UNTIL...

If Christ Reigns Forever and Ever then there could be no Reigning ...UNTIL...

    :thumbsup: moshood  GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE    :winkgrin: :HeartThrob:  Rose

[martincisneros]

Paul,

The Gr. word for "confess"  means "to acknowledge", "affirm", or "agree" which is what everyone will eventually do in response to Christ's lordship, willingly and blessedly or unwillingly and painfully.

No "exomologeo" means exhuberant thunderous praise and laudation -- it means to cry aloud in total adoration, such as when Jesus cried to the Father about Him having hidden these things from the wise and prudent and having revealed them to babes.  Exact same Greek Word about all in heaven, in earth, and under the earth EXCLAIMING AND PROCLAIMING that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father, or in the words of Isaiah, that in the Lord alone they have righteousness and strength.  Even a horrendously biased joke of a resource material such as W.E. Vine's would agree with my definition of "exomologeo," and in fact, it's got statements to this effect that caused me to look further on this one!

[martincisneros]

Check out the predominant word translated "wrath" and the word it's from in St. Paul and St. John -- Greek word orge -- same word we get the words orgy and orgasm from in English.  It's literally the love of God excited to the boiling point of being ravishing.  Even Strong's Concordance talks about an excitement of the mind that entails a reaching forth for and taking!  God's judgment is His nonnegotiable stance regarding His will.  All of history is a narrowing corridor at the end of which stands the Nazarene whose determined purpose is that none should escape the plan of God.  There is none other name given among men, but the Name of Jesus, by which we MUST BE saved.  God is too passionate to spend eternity without you and everyone you've ever known personally or by reputation.  YOU CANNOT ESCAPE SALVATION!!  Jesus said, when He was lifted up, that He would draw all men to Himself in John 12 -- all men.  The Greek word there for "draw" literally means to DRAG.

When we were dead in trespasses is when He did His work, per Ephesians.  Hebrews 2 says that Jesus set free those who "all of their lifetime" were held subject to bondage.  If it was "all of their lifetime," then obviously quite a few had expired by then.  Ezekiel 18:4 says that all souls are His.  Your theology of gnosticism of not all being the Lord's presupposes all didn't come from Him, exist thru Him, and return to Him per Romans 11:32 and Romans 11:36 -- He's bound all to disobedience so that He'd have mercy UPON ALL.  The Scriptures presuppose all nations, all beings, all creatures in heaven, earth, and under the earth emphatically being His!!  Ever heard this UR song by the Newsboys??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6bBxO37LE4


I want to hear the Scriptural refutation of this song "Everything Cries Holy":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtM9Ry4suDw

or of "Ancient of Days":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjSfS4Jv1WQ


If you listen to much Christian music -- you, yourself, are listening to probably a lot of songs that presuppose the never failing, inescapable, love of God!!  Ever heard the old song that a million folks have recorded, of course, but Sierra did an unforgettable version of "By My Spirit"?? That song by Sierra alone answers all of your questions.  If you knew the Scriptures, they themselves would testify that this is a Blood bought world!  'Cause He really does have the whole world in His Hands;-)

[ChosenofGod37]

Hey Martin,

1. confess -ed, eth, -ing
(ὁμολογέω (homologeō 3670) with ἐξ (ex) out of, prefixed) to speak out the same things with or as another, confess fully. Here, only middle to make acknowledgment.
Reference(s)
Mat 3:6, Mar 1:5, Act 19:18, Rom 14:11, Rom 15:9, Php 2:11, Jas 5:16
2. thank [verb] -ed
to speak out the same things as another; hence, to confess fully; make acknowledgements as for benefits, that is to give thanks, praise.
Reference(s)
Mat 11:25, Luk 10:21

[rosered]

  Hey Choosen of God ,
I am not even worthy of a response ?

  I am used to it actually .. :laughing7:

   God bless    :HeartThrob: Rose

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Don't feel bad Rose.......I know the feeling  :winkgrin: too........Blessings..... :girlheart:

[ChosenofGod37]

Of course your worthy Rose.

you said to support #7 statement

Isa 30:18 And therefore will the LORD wait, that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he be exalted, that he may have mercy upon you: for the LORD [is] a God of judgment: blessed [are] all they that wait for him. 

Since  Judah would not wait on the Lord to deliver, He must wait to be gracious to the nation. This verse in context is about Judah.


you said:
10) Nor do I see all peoples being saved in the after life. Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.   

Rom 11:32 teaches in context to the chapter though not the author of sin, God allowed man to pursue his sinful inclinations so that He could receive glory by demonstrating His grace and mercy to disobedient sinners.


5) The wicked having sin "conditioned" out of them in the after life. 1Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.   

Paul was saved so that God could display to all His gracious and merciful patience with the most wretched sinners. Paul was living proof that God could save any sinner, no matter how great a one he might be. The account of Paul's conversion has been instrumental in tha salvation of many.

[rosered]

:cloud9: Don't feel bad Rose.......I know the feeling  :winkgrin: too........Blessings..... :girlheart:

Thanks sis  :icon_flower:

, It is just so hard to write it all down .
 I do believe part of the problem of communication with notes is , form
and God knows form is  not one of my strong points  :mblush: Yikes!!
so I looked it up  and yes , its me ... :sigh:  live and learn he he  :dontknow:


in the letter or in the Spirit   ''How to speak to angels and men ''  as Paul spoke  most often  :thumbsup:

Definition

Form is a term which refers to the recognisable shape of a text or a speech act.

This shape may be either physical or abstract.

Examples Spoken

Written

Conversation
 
Menu

Sermon
 
Letter

Announcement
 
Novel

Anecdote
 
Article

Joke
 
Poster



Use

The term 'form' is used in linguistics and in literary criticism as a technical term.

It is used when considering the shape, the construction, or the type of speech or writing.

An awareness of form can help to produce more efficient communication.

Keeping form in mind helps to clarify the type of end product required.

Form is an important part of stylistic analysis - together with audience and function.

When studying a text we first try to identify its form. What type of writing is it? (Is it a letter, an advertisement, a timetable, or a novel?)

Then we might ask 'To whom is it addressed?' [audience] and 'What is it doing?' [function].

When thinking of linguistic or literary form, it's sometimes useful to think in terms of material shape. For instance, a table is usually a rectangular horizontal surface suppored by legs at each corner. That is the form of a table.

Similarly, a piece of writing which begins with a postal address and the words 'Dear Sir', then ends with 'Yours sincerely' - is likely to be a letter. This is the form taken by most letters.

It is possible for one form to contain another or several other forms. For example, a novel may contain a letter or a poem. A sermon may contain an anecdote.

Most poems have a form, but this varies a great deal. The sonnet is in part defined by its form which is the number of lines and the rhyme scheme.

Form in speech may be signalled by recognisable phrases, tone of voice, or choice of vocabulary.

For instance, 'The train now standing in platform ten...' would be recognised by most people as the start of a railway announcement.

Similarly, 'O Lord, we beseech thee to ...' would easily be identified as the start of a prayer.

If someone says 'My grandfather always told me that ...' we know that they are probably going to offer moral advice - a piece of homespun wisdom.

Beware! The term 'formal' has widened in its application to mean 'serious' — just as 'informal' has also extended its meaning to encompass notions of friendliness.

For instance, the greeting 'Hi there!' might be described by most people as informal. However, because it is part of a recognised verbal ritual, in linguistic terms [strictly speaking] it is 'formal' because it has a fixed shape.

The two terms, 'formal' and 'informal' therefore need to be used accurately when applied to linguistic or literary analysis.

[rosered]

Of course your worthy Rose.

you said to support #7 statement

Isa 30:18 And therefore will the LORD wait, that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he be exalted, that he may have mercy upon you: for the LORD [is] a God of judgment: blessed [are] all they that wait for him. 

Since  Judah would not wait on the Lord to deliver, He must wait to be gracious to the nation. This verse in context is about Judah.


you said:
10) Nor do I see all peoples being saved in the after life. Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.   

Rom 11:32 teaches in context to the chapter though not the author of sin, God allowed man to pursue his sinful inclinations so that He could receive glory by demonstrating His grace and mercy to disobedient sinners.


5) The wicked having sin "conditioned" out of them in the after life. 1Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.   

Paul was saved so that God could display to all His gracious and merciful patience with the most wretched sinners. Paul was living proof that God could save any sinner, no matter how great a one he might be. The account of Paul's conversion has been instrumental in tha salvation of many.

Thank you Chosen of God for the reply  :thumbsup:
and About Judah
  I know that until the time the Lord God sent Christ Jesus  the Lion of the tribe of Judah to open the seals  all would fail  Ezek chapter 19 
making all the Law and prophets  True
 
  I do get that Paul
  at first being Saul was a  good ,''letter of the Law killer'',  to many innocent souls   speaking of the saving grace of God though Jesus Christ ,
  Paul confesses his ignorance as doing God a service
   and  Do realize  that Saul /Paul   meeting the Lord on the road to Damascus  changed his course , being made than a vessel chosen by God to suffer many things for  Christ Jesus names sake
and we see in the  new testament , it is also true too ...
 

  but Dear Chosen , not a one of us  could ever change our course  without the Good Lord intervening

  Do you think it is fair that some  are this fortunate and others are just cast off  as nothing ?
  I do believe God has a plan and  many will never understand  in this life why the  evil ones prevail and the innocent ones are consumed  in suffering

  I do believe we have to  wonder what God we are serving ?
Is it one whom are  carnal minds have  created  or is it the True God in whom we trust all things will work  out for the good of all  His glorious creation

  To be challenged by my own thoughts and understanding only makes me know I have much to learn concerning the Will of God that none  should perish , His longsuffering and patience towards us all , though all times and ways

  His mercy endures forever , I cling to that promise for all concerned  :HeartThrob:  Rose

[gregoryfl]

Chosen,

You have said on 2 occasions:

This post is to understand your theology, not mine.

Do you understand what you are saying here? Every single time you respond by way of disagreement, you are NOT trying to understand someone else's theology, but are trying to put forth yours.

Ron

[ChosenofGod37]

Hey Greg,

Learning from scripture by way of sound exegesis. When someone takes a  scripture out of context I will refute it.

[FineLinen]

Paul,

The Gr. word for "confess"  means "to acknowledge", "affirm", or "agree" which is what everyone will eventually do in response to Christ's lordship, willingly and blessedly or unwillingly and painfully.

No "exomologeo" means exhuberant thunderous praise and laudation -- it means to cry aloud in total adoration, such as when Jesus cried to the Father about Him having hidden these things from the wise and prudent and having revealed them to babes.  Exact same Greek Word about all in heaven, in earth, and under the earth EXCLAIMING AND PROCLAIMING that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father, or in the words of Isaiah, that in the Lord alone they have righteousness and strength.  Even a horrendously biased joke of a resource material such as W.E. Vine's would agree with my definition of "exomologeo," and in fact, it's got statements to this effect that caused me to look further on this one!

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=1454.0