The Economy

[jabcat]

How are you guys feeling and what are you thinking about the economy?  I was talking with a friend of mine, who if a believer at all, is a somewhat "distant" one.  I think he believes in God, but not sure where his trust in Jesus is.  Was raised Catholic, Catholic school with the "mean nuns", doesn't really have anything to say about Jesus, etc., unless I bring it up.

Anyway, he is a Democrat, voted for Obama.  He talked today about he and his fiancee's (ex-wife, getting remarried) different thoughts on things with the economy, what they're doing to prepare if an absolute "crash" occurred.  He's a pretty logical, not overly-reactive guy.  One thing he told me though bears some further research, and if it's true, IMO it's an attention getter.  He said that many rich people, especially in New York, are quietly moving out of the country, "because they know it's [the crash/disaster] coming".

I believe God's going to fix everything in the end.  My thoughts are what may occur in the meantime.  I think some of us here at TM may believe it's only getting better from here, with things building to the Kingdom;  some of us may see things more as the "great falling away", "will He find faith on the earth", and the earth will be cleansed with fire before the new heaven and new earth;  and some surely have mixtures of various other POVs.

In general, I think these are upsetting times for a lot of folks, and is at the very least an opportunity for us to share with others, both our financial resources and the message of Life.

Paul said he had never seen the righteous forsaken or begging for bread.

I thank God often for His gracious blessings on me and my family.  He has given us food, shelter, and protection. 

How's everyone doing in these unsettled times?  Opinions, thoughts, feelings are great, but does anyone also have any specific, absolutely certain words from the Lord on these matters?

God's blessing, James.

[firstborn888]

There really is no shortage of anything and all this is just a natural response to bad financial practices (including HUD encouraging bad loan making under Cisneros/Clinton). Here in San Antonio we have half empty neighborhoods where low-income folks were approved to buy houses - AT THE GOVERNMENT'S BEHEST. So the government causes the problem and they now want to be the great heros.

Hard working people are the only economic heros!!!

The housing market needed to correct itself from the sub-prime mistake (financial institutions lending to borrowers who do not meet prime underwriting guidelines) but then the fear instilled by the gov. and the media (as things were righting themselves) caused a universal collapse. People froze up and stopped spending because of bad predictions and now look! It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

This has nothing to do with end-times or God trying to get a message across. It is the natural result of government messing up a mortgage system that worked great for over a hundred years.

Leaving the country won't help as the whole world is engulfed in this crises.

Think of it - the whole world was depending on the U.S. housing market staying solid. Nuts!

Personally, life has thrown much bigger monkey wrenches my way than this economic downturn. The only thing that concerns me in the least is the lawlessness which can abound if everything really really collapses and the police force dwindles and loses control. At that point communities have to come together on their own and those who already have a strong community/friendship base are way ahead of the game.

I have no savings at all and am about $20,000.00 in debt so it is disconcerting (in the natural) but really - it's just part of life and struggle and faith and growth and learning.
 

[Molly]

Hey Jab, can you find out for me where they are moving to? :grin:

The american public, like the cheated on wife or the cuckolded husband, will be the last to know.

I can't figure out if people are intentionally stupid because they don't want to know, or if they are just naturally stupid, but there is nothing going on right now that hasn't been planned for and orchestrated in advance for years. 

So I think about the y2k hype and how all those new computer programs had to be written, especially for the banks, ...did this open the way for  some unknown party in sept of 2008 to electronically execute a run on the banks to the tune of 550billion dollars in one hour....and I think to myself, what a wonderful world.

[CHB]

Well, I don't worry about any of it because I know God is in control of all things. He makes the rich and the poor and tells us not to worry about what tomorrow may bring, whjat we eat or wear, so I just leave it all in his hands.

I believe since the beginning of time, all things are working it's way up to the coming of Christ. This is just part of the plan.

CHB

[Molly]

John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.



Psalm 25:5
Lead me in thy truth, and teach me: for thou art the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait all the day.

[sparrow]

hmmm.

Spend a few minutes on infowars.com
Where there's smoke there's fire.

tell ME...

WHAT is truth?

:dontknow:

:wacko2:

1. The world is seemingly run by madmen.
2. Some conspiracy theories are not theories at all.
That much I believe.

Otherwise, I have no idea what is going on.
or what is going to happen.
I do see that our rights are continuously being trampled over..(and it's getting worse and worse). and the American public seems more interested in things like American Idol...and that does give me pause.


Whatever happens... this is just "THIS WORLD" our temporary home. Sometimes, I think to myself... why does it even matter? This is fleeting... whatever happens, we'll get through and everything will be ok.
Ugh. I have been spending a lot of time on this subject lately..I think I need a vacation.

These are surely very strange times we are living in.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: All I know as pertaining to the Lord, is that many years ago, probable around 20, my little group at the time, was shown thru different people having similar dreams, that the day would come when we would have to grow our own food for a season. The dream content I can't remember because they were not mine, but it was as when the children of Israel were the only ones that had light in their dwellings, also. So we felt that we were being shown some catastrophe was coming in our lifetimes, to cause such things.

As for me, I personally think it is all going to collapse. This is a worldwide problem; Iceland's economy has already collapsed and a few weeks ago France had a million protesting in the streets over their economy. So we would be foolish I think, to think that it is going to bypass us, as the multinational corporations have created essentially a one world system already, so if one falls, they all fall. It's just a matter of time, and no amount of throwing money at it is going to forestall the inevitable forever.

I would say don't have your money in banks much longer, but unless you have gold, it probably won't do you any good anyway, because if all collapses whoever is left to pick up the pieces will probably initiate that North American unity with one currency, Bush was trying to accomplish before he left office, and I imagine it will be a new currency, just so the ones that are really running the show will have more than anyone else. My  :2c: Blessings....

[Nathan]

I wonder if God isn't drawing us closer to him so that the "things" around us won't be as much a distraction and causing us to induce fear in ourselves.  Consider the lillies  . . over used passage and becomes extremely cliche, but that's not the Holy Spirit's fault.  It's still truth.  The more I think about the natural things, the more I sense hoplessness setting in . .economy, envrionment, politics, media . . .it's all about doom and gloom.  No matter how great things are in one area, what get's the most mileage is the other areas that aren't as healthy.  It's as if people "need" something to worry about. 

[Taffy]

Tis terminal ....Like most things of the Flesh.. :sigh:.

but theres always One positive  certainty..HES called LIFE. :icon_flower:

:icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen. I'm observing what is going on around us, but keeping my eyes on Him who is the answer.  :thumbsup:

[Tony N]

jabcat wrote: "Paul said he had never seen the righteous forsaken or begging for bread."


That was king David:
Psa 37:25  I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.

Paul wrote:
2Co 11:23-27  "Servants of Christ are they? (Being insane, I am speaking.) Above them am I! In weariness more exceedingly, in jails more exceedingly, in blows inordinatley, in deaths often. "  (24)  By Jews five times I got forty save one.  (25)  Thrice am I flogged with rods, once am I stoned, thrice am I shipwrecked, a night and a day have I spent in a swamp, "  (26)  in journeys often, in dangers of rivers, in dangers of robbers, in dangers of my race, in dangers of the nations, in dangers in the city, in dangers in the wilderness, in dangers in the sea, in dangers among false brethren; "  (27)  in toil and labor, in vigils often, in famine and thirst, in fasts often, in cold and nakedness; "

I think Paul would have said: "Though He slay me yet will I trust Him." (Job 13:15).

Living north of Detroit, we are not doing too bad. There is still a traffic jam trying to get through the town of Almont which means people are still working and trying to get home at night and getting to work in the morning.

But talking to the home seller, there are lots of homes for sale and lots of homes have been foreclosed in this area. Lots of people have moved away to where the work is. The largest manufacturing company in town finally closed its doors. They mfg'd. stuff for the auto industry.

Go just south of here by about 25 miles and it is just booming. Lots of money, and buildings going up. Who knows? My friends in Alabama can't find work and are going B.K. this week.

TT

[jabcat]

thanks for the clarification...

[jabcat]

I was thinking about gold today after Card mentioned it.  This song came to mind, which says in part "a piece of bread could buy a bag of gold"....I'm interested in thoughts on this song, parts of it fit the economy theme of this thread.  I think obviously the main theme of the song is the "rapture", and I'm not going to include the direct references to it...if you're a rapture believer and want to touch on that, go ahead.  But for most, getting beyond that piece to other aspects of the song, i.e. "the days we're living in/the days to come", whether pre-mil, post-mil, or no-mil, what's your take?

"Life was filled with guns and war,
And everyone got trampled on the floor.
I wish we'd all been ready.

Children died, the days grew cold.
A piece of bread could buy a bag of gold.
I wish we'd all been ready.

The Father spoke, the demons dined.
How could you have been so blind?" --- Larry Norman

[sparrow]

:cloud9: Amen. I'm observing what is going on around us, but keeping my eyes on Him who is the answer.  :thumbsup:

Same here!

[Sarah]

That song sure brings back memories. I remember sitting in church Wednesday night as a teenager watching that movie where the people with 666 on their foreheads were chasing the Christians to put them under the guillatine. That song really does have a beautiful foreboding tune. At the time it seems like either it was Gorbachev or the Gulf War that was the foreboding antiChrist.

[jabcat]

I was thinking about that movie too, Sarah...those were the days...


Molly...I've heard perhaps both New Zealand and Australia... :dontknow:

[firstborn888]

I wish I could break everyone out of the end time scare scenario that the church has falsely put forth.

In America we are free people in a free country with religious freedoms paid for with blood.

Governments have ALWAYS trounced on civil rights when convenient. No need to tie this into some big conspiracy theory about the end of the world and one world government etc.

We are in charge folks. God has put all things under our feet.

The only one world government is the prevalence of carnal thinking governing people's actions (including many within Christianity).

Change the world, break oppression, bring the Kingdom to manifestation in your sphere of influence.

:thumbsup:   

[Molly]

I've read you could fit the entire world's population into Australia, with a quarter acre given to every man, woman, and child alive.

So don't believe the liars who ramble on about over population.  It's just not true.  Neither should there be any food shortages in the world--ever!!!  Only common sense tells us that is true as corrupt governments pay farmers not to farm right before they drive them off their property with taxes and liens.

Medicine has made so many advances in the last century--we are on the verge of living 'forever,' if only it could be realized for the average person.

Neither believe the global warming liars, as if we even needed hundred year old technology to get from here to there.

We are under a final assault now--it should be obvious to everyone.   Freedom is a dirty word among the world's elite, just as is the name of Jesus.  I have read that gold will be the last man standing.  One could only assume the object is to reduce as many as possible to the animals they have taught us we are.  There's no moral hazard in killing animals in their minds.  Henry Kissinger is salivating over his 'new world order' on the floor of the stock exchange for cnbc.  That's not a conspiracy, that is fact.  They are going public.

But--

Hebrews 4:14
Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

And, there will be no rapture, but blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.


"meek"
H6035
עניו    ענו
‛ânâv  ‛ânâyv
aw-nawv', aw-nawv'
The second form is by intermixture with H6041; from H6031; depressed (figuratively), in mind (gentle) or circumstances (needy, especially saintly): - humble, lowly, meek, poor`. Compare H6041.

[Nancy]

Hi ya,

You should see it in the UK. There is a banker whos' nickname is Fred the Shred as he came into the Royal Bank of Scotland and made people redundant.  Him and other bankers caused this bank and others to make losses in the billions and now there is controversy that he has a pension pot of about 16 million pounds. He is only 50.  He is basically being rewarded for causing the bank he ran to go bankrupt and needing tax payers cash to bail it out, who will be paid back by 'the little people'.  Funny world isn't it. 
I am a bit cross because the interest rates have come right down, so i don't get any interest on my savings which i was careful with!
But then i tell myself that i have to trust that the Lord will look after me with or without savings. I have to rely on the Lord not on myself.

Godbless
Nancy

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Well Nancy, that is essentially what all the banks did here with their bail out money, so don't feel bad. They were supposed to modify loans in exchange for that. I read out of a million homes that were supposed to helped in this way, they only managed to modify 25 in a year. Corruption has got to be at it's highest right now. Blessings....

[Tony N]

1Ti 6:17 "Those who are rich in the current eon be charging not to be haughty, nor yet to rely on the dubiousness of riches, but on God, Who is tendering us all things richly for our enjoyment;"

Riches are dubious or uncertain at best.   Best to rely on God.

[jabcat]

1Ti 6:17 "Those who are rich in the current eon be charging not to be haughty, nor yet to rely on the dubiousness of riches, but on God, Who is tendering us all things richly for our enjoyment;"

Riches are dubious or uncertain at best.   Best to rely on God.

Amen, may it be humbly and thankfully.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen to that..... :thumbsup:

[firstborn888]

Okay, I admit I was wrong about this. The KGB have been secretly building up their network in the U.S. for decades (the don't exist anymore you say? Well, that's what they want you to think!!!). 

When Kissinger gives the order they will show up on the doorstep of anyone who has ever named the name of Jesus (in a non swear-word manner) and they will ask you to denounce Christ or they will blow your head off. Of course - they are lying and instead they will cart you off to special camps where a special anti-christ microchip will be implanted in your brain. The chip causes you to think many anti-christic thoughts, you know, just thoughts about working for the state and no thoughts of freedom ect.

The red commies, (that's ummm... old Russian people - the ones who gave all the hippies drugs and rock music to destroy our western civilization with some help from the beatles - who were also secret KGB operatives) in conjunction with the illuminati are finally bringing all their evil plans to fruition as we see pot smoking executive baby boomers (with no common sense left) just laying down all their freedoms without a fight (after doing too much LDS in the sixties).   

Now, when word gets out and the red-neck Christian right begin to pull out their hunting rifles and shotguns ect and start fighting back - that's when the REAL fun starts.

You see, fallen angels came down in spaceships in 1947 and have been breeding with albino lesbian Canadian chicks and have created this huge army of 9 foot tall gay albino Nephilimites who will rush upon us from the north and quickly repel all opposition.   :mshock:

But don't worry - the sky will open up and an angelic army on horseback will fight with the 9 foot tall gay albino Nephilimites and will prevail against them. Also, they are specially trained to remove the anti-christ microchips from those implanted with them.   :thumbsup:

So yes, it does look bad, but everything will turn out fine.  :laughing7:

[Molly]

"Nasa"  Hebrew



to lift, bear up, carry, take
(Qal)
to lift, lift up
to bear, carry, support, sustain, endure
to take, take away, carry off, forgive
(Niphal)
to be lifted up, be exalted
to lift oneself up, rise up
to be borne, be carried
to be taken away, be carried off, be swept away
(Piel)
to lift up, exalt, support, aid, assist
to desire, long (fig.)
to carry, bear continuously
to take, take away
(Hithpael) to lift oneself up, exalt oneself
(Hiphil)
to cause one to bear (iniquity)
to cause to bring, have brought