The Economy

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Like it or not, it is a very real possibility......

[Doc]

I'd say Wilkerson is overreacting, if only a bit. But, God needs to do what he needs to do to get us to wake up. And he will.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Someone sent me this, and as it is in topic, here's one man's view.....


Auto Supplier Tells GM Where To Go

This is one of the greatest responses to the requests for bailout money I have seen thus far. As a supplier for the Big 3 this man received a letter from the President of GM North America, requesting support for the bail out program.  His response is well written, and has to make you proud of a guy who tells it like it is.

-------------


Dear Employees & Suppliers,

Congress and the current Administration will soon determine whether to provide immediate support to the domestic auto industry to help it through one of the most difficult economic times in our nation's history.  Your elected officials must hear from all of us now on why this support is critical to our continuing the progress we began prior to the global financial crisis.

As an employee or supplier, you have a lot at stake and continue to be one of our most effective and passionate voices. I know GM can count on you to have your voice heard.
Thank you for your urgent action and ongoing support.

Troy Clarke
President,
General Motors North America

Response from:

Gregory Knox, Pres.
Knox Machinery Company
Franklin, Ohio

Gentlemen:

In response to your request to contact legislators and ask for a bailout for the Big Three automakers please consider the following, and please pass my thoughts on to Troy Clarke, President of General Motors North America.

Politicians and Management of the Big 3 are both infected with the same entitlement mentality that has spread like cancerous germs in UAW halls for the last countless decades, and whose plague is now sweeping this nation, awaiting our new "messiah," Pres-elect Obama, to wave his magic wand and make all our problems go away, while at the same time allowing our once great nation to keep "living the dream."  Believe me folks, The dream is over!

This dream where we can ignore the consumer for years while management myopically focuses on its personal rewards packages at the same time that our factories have been filled with the worlds most overpaid, arrogant, ignorant and laziest entitlement minded "laborers" without paying the price for these atrocities.  This dream where you still think the masses will line up to buy our products for ever and ever.

Don't even think about telling me I'm wrong.  Don't accuse me of not knowing of what I speak.  I have called on Ford, GM, Chrysler, TRW, Delphi, Kelsey Hayes, American Axle, and countless other automotive OEM's throughout the Midwest, during the past 30 years and what I've seen over those years in these union shops can only be described as disgusting.

Troy Clarke, President of General Motors North America, states:  "There is widespread sentiment throughout this country, and our government, and especially via the news media, that the current crisis is completely the result of bad management which it certainly is not."

You're right Mr. Clarke, it's not JUST management.  How about the electricians who walk around the plants like lords in feudal times, making people wait on them for countless hours while they drag ass so they can come in on the weekend and make double and triple time for a job they easily could have done within their normal 40 hour work week. How about the line workers who threaten newbies with all kinds of scare tactics for putting out too many parts on a shift and for being too productive.

(We certainly must not expose those lazy bums who have been getting overpaid for decades for their horrific underproduction, must we?!?)

Do you folks really not know about this stuff?!?  How about this great sentiment abridged from Mr. Clarke's sad plea:  "over the last few years we have closed the quality and efficiency gaps with our competitors."  What the hell has Detroit been doing for the last 40 years?!?  Did we really JUST wake up to the gaps in quality and efficiency between us and them?  The K car vs. the Accord?  The Pinto vs. the Civic?!?  Do I need to go on?  What a joke!

We are living through the inevitable outcome of the actions of the United States auto industry for decades. It's time to pay for your sins, Detroit.

I attended an economic summit last week where brilliant economist, Alan Beaulieu, from the Institute of Trend Research, surprised the crowd when he said he would not have given the banks a penny of "bailout money." 

"Yes, he said, this would cause short term problems," but despite what people like politicians and corporate magnates would have us believe, the sun would in fact rise the next day and the following very important thing would happen.  Where there had been greedy and sloppy banks, new efficient ones would pop up.  That is how a free market system works.  It does work if we would only let it work."

But for some nondescript reason we are now deciding that the rest of the world is right and that capitalism doesn't work - that we need the government to step in and "save us".  Save us my ass, Hell - we're nationalizing and unfortunately too many of our once fine nation's citizens don't even have a clue that this is what is really happening.

But, they sure can tell you the stats on their favorite sports teams.

Yeah - THAT'S really important, isn't it.

Does it ever occur to ANYONE that the "competition" has been producing vehicles, EXTREMELY PROFITABLY, for decades in this country?  How can that be???  Let's see.  Fuel efficient.  Listening to customers.  Investing in the proper tooling and automation for the long haul.

Not being too complacent or arrogant to listen to Dr. W. Edwards Deming four decades ago when he taught that by adopting appropriate principles of management, organizations could increase quality and simultaneously reduce costs.  Ever increased productivity through quality and intelligent planning.  Treating vendors like strategic partners, rather than like "the enemy."  Efficient front and back offices.  Non union environment.

Again, I could go on and on, but I really wouldn't be telling anyone anything they really don't already know down deep in their hearts.

I have six children, so I am not unfamiliar with the concept of wanting someone to bail you out of a mess that you have gotten yourself into - my children do this on a weekly, if not daily basis, as I did when I was their age.  I do for them what my parents did for me (one of their greatest gifts, by the way) - I make them stand on their own two feet and accept the consequences of their actions and work through it.  Radical concept, huh.  Am I there for them in the wings?  Of course - but only until such time as they need to be fully on their own as adults.

I don't want to oversimplify a complex situation, but there certainly are unmistakable parallels here between the proper role of parenting and government.  Detroit and the United States need to pay for their sins.

Bad news people - it's coming whether we like it or not. The newly elected Messiah really doesn't have a magic wand big enough to "make it all go away."  I laughed as I heard Obama "reeling it back in" almost immediately after the final vote count was tallied.  "We really might not do it in a year or in four."  Where the Hell was that kind of talk when he was RUNNING for office.

Stop trying to put off the inevitable folks.  That house in Florida really isn't worth $750,000.  People who jump across a border really don't deserve free health care benefits. That job driving that forklift for the Big 3 really isn't worth $85,000 a year.  We really shouldn't allow Wal-Mart to stock their shelves with products acquired from a country that unfairly manipulates their currency and has the most atrocious human rights infractions on the face of the globe.  That couple whose combined income is less than $50,000 really shouldn't be living in that $485,000 home.

Let the market correct itself folks - it will.  Yes it will be painful, but it's gonna' be painful either way, and the bright side of my proposal is that on the other side of it all, is a nation that appreciates what it has and doesn't live beyond its means and gets back to basics and redevelops the patriotic work ethic that made it the greatest nation in the history of the world and probably turns back to God.

Sorry - don't cut my head off, I'm just the messenger sharing with you the "bad news".  I hope you take it to heart.

Gregory J. Knox, President
Knox Machinery, Inc.
Franklin, Ohio 45005

[WhiteWings]

I think that makes Knox Machinery a former supplier of GM  :laughing7:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: No doubt.... :laughing7:

[Paul Hazelwood]

The automakers don't need a bailout,  a bridge loan would be reasonable one where they are accountable for paying it back.

I have a stake in the automakers because I work in a dealership,   the bridge loan will help them stay afloat and retool so that they can become profitable.

The auto industry is a huge factor in our economy and I do not like bailouts in the sense that we just hand over money,  I am for conditions set so they are accountable for the money they get.

I also wish the executives would of stood up for the companies they worked for when they came under fire for flying jets to the hearings.  Business jets for most companies will increase productivity,  I've had enough with the bias and envy that only increases all the misconceptions and feeds people fears and feeds the fires of people already half scared of their own shadows.

This country is more in danger of ridiculousness due to kneejerk reactions and bias,  perhaps an impending doom is coming to america, has nothing to do with the boogy man God ready to get us all.    ooooooh God is skeeeeeery.

[Molly]

The Obama Deception



I think his task will be to develop an overall strategy for America in this period when really a New World Order can be created.  It's a great opportunity.  It isn't just a crisis.

--Heinz Kissinger, 2009



http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7886780711843120756

[Molly]

U.S. Taxpayers Risk $9.7 Trillion on Bailout Programs (Update1)

By Mark Pittman and Bob Ivry

Feb. 9 (Bloomberg) -- The stimulus package the U.S. Congress is completing would raise the government's commitment to solving the financial crisis to $9.7 trillion, enough to pay off more than 90 percent of the nation's home mortgages.

The Federal Reserve, Treasury Department and Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation have lent or spent almost $3 trillion over the past two years and pledged up to $5.7 trillion more. The Senate is to vote this week on an economic-stimulus measure of at least $780 billion. It would need to be reconciled with an $819 billion plan the House approved last month.



"We've seen money go out the back door of this government unlike any time in the history of our country," Senator Byron Dorgan, a North Dakota Democrat, said on the Senate floor Feb. 3. "Nobody knows what went out of the Federal Reserve Board, to whom and for what purpose. How much from the FDIC? How much from TARP? When? Why?"

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=washingtonstory&sid=aGq2B3XeGKok



The $9.7 trillion in pledges would be enough to send a $1,430 check to every man, woman and child alive in the world.

[firstborn888]

I had a very strange dream in the '90s. Strange because I NEVER thought about this stuff as I was very consumed with just doing music and such.

In the dream the Mexican economy had totally collapsed and vast multitudes were starving. As a result MILLIONS suddenly came up across our borders and there was no way to stop them. The dream became very personal as roving bands of Mexicans plundered and pillaged their way through San Antonio.

In the dream my young daughters and I were at a convenience store near my home and saw them coming. We ran and hid in a back room - the clerk was killed and the store looted. I had a knife and was slashing at the men who were trying to push the door open - it was absolutely terrifying, especially because my girls were with me.

I've been out of San Antonio and that neighborhood for over 10 years so thank God it was not prophetic as far as happening to my family in that neighborhood.

Overall - we are spoiled rotten. Throughout history billions have been through real calamities and disasters scarier that my dream. Because we have had such a high degree of security for so many decades we have felt insulated, completely safe. The exception (in my lifetime) would be the atomic bomb drills in the 60's (remember you baby boomers - under the desks, hiding face? Not looking into the bright flash?).   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiI62AZTQw8&feature=related

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I remember those atomic drills and because of them my greatest fear was the bomb. Then I came to the Lord and He gave me His peace over being in control of the situation and I had no more fear of nuclear annihilation. I can see your Mexican dream coming to pass, though. Blessings....

[jabcat]

The Obama Deception



I think his task will be to develop an overall strategy for America in this period when really a New World Order can be created.  It's a great opportunity.  It isn't just a crisis.

--Heinz Kissinger, 2009

Heard someone talking about that the other day...keep the "crisis" going so more can be done to take advantage of it  :thumbdown:.

[WhiteWings]

It's more like create a crisis and take full advantage of it. (like the '30s)

First earn big time. -> from Joe Plumber
Then let things crash.
Government comes to the rescue with tax money -> from Joe Plumber

[WhiteWings]

The Obama Deception

I think his task will be to develop an overall strategy for America in this period when really a New World Order can be created.  It's a great opportunity.  It isn't just a crisis.

--Heinz Kissinger, 2009

I already predicted this during the elections. Many here where not so fond of Bush. They had hopes with Obama would bring rest.
My opinion always was and still is that a white puppet that can't speak is replaced by a black puppet that can speech very well.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: That's about the size of it WW. Abraham Lincoln could not be elected today because he's too poor to buy it. I think they should put all the campaign contributions in one pot and then split it up equally among all the candidates, so no one could tip the scales (legally). Blessings....

[Molly]

:cloud9: That's about the size of it WW. Abraham Lincoln could not be elected today because he's too poor to buy it. I think they should put all the campaign contributions in one pot and then split it up equally among all the candidates, so no one could tip the scales (legally). Blessings....

Exactly.

Why should somebody from another state or a special interest or a corporation be able to give money to a candidate from my state?  This is going on in the congress level, too.  That should be illegal.

How many did Bernie Madoff give contributions to?

[jabcat]

Reviving this thread, as it is of special interest to me (and I know a few others).  IMO, it also connects to spokenfor's recent thread on "Brace Yourself".  SOME OF US ARE INTERESTED IN PLEASANT, PRODUCTIVE CONVERSATION OF THIS TOPIC.  This is in the Member's Lounge ("Discuss [practically] Anything Here").  There are plenty of topics on the Tent to meet everyone's interests.

So here we go.  Bailouts, incentives, government takeovers.

Obviously, IMO, we are to look to God for all our needs, and every good and perfect gift does come from the Father (Js. 1:17).  Even if you or I do some things to prepare, it is still only through His provision, grace, mercy, and blessings. 

Further, we are to seek His face, trust in His arm of protection, "buy" of Him.

However, there are multiple scriptures that speak of wisdom, prudence, preparation. 

The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it. - Proverbs 27:12

Not to totally take this out of context, but IMO, it does give an example and set precedence;
Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?" "Nothing," they answered.  And He said to them, "But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one.  (Luke 22:35,36)

How do you see things shaping up?  Are you doing anything PHYSICALLY to prepare?  Any related suggestions that may help anyone interested in listening?

http://survive-economic-collapse.com/Money.html

[WhiteWings]

I think that NWO is a mix of several things.
Some seem to have pagan rituals like woreshiping Lilith/the screech owl. And that kind of stuff.
I don't know exactly what aim they have with that worshipping. Return of satan?
Anyway I think the majority is just in it for the greed and power. Since Nimrod there have been leaders that are always after more, more, more. Most have used weapons for that in the past. The current generals/kings use money as a weapon. Some go real far in their greed. Not always for world domination but jet for some extra cash.
The following little story shows that clearly. It's quite a while since I've read about it the numbers/names most likely are wrong. But it doesn't matter really.
Somewhere around the time when airbags where introduced Ford had a design problem in its cars. Dunno exactly what but it caused (near) fatal accidents. Some lawsuits. Ford payed as instructed by the court. But then a document leaked. It had had calculation of the cost actually fixing all the affected cars and the costs of the court.
The fixing was more expensive so they took the cheap way out; wasting lives.
What has that to do with NWO. Nothing directly. But it does show what people do for money. Even if they have so much of it that they could live as kings for a 1000 years.

[WhiteWings]

So here we go.  Bailouts, incentives, government takeovers.

The logic behind the bailouts seems sound.
Save the company. And by that save the jobs of who work there.
Huge banks/stock clearing houses nearly collaps like Morgan-Stanley. They are funded by the .gov and suddenly they are healty again. We got teh same thing overhere. Banks get .gov support because economy needs banks. What the banks do?
Get the cash rise interest rates and sit tight on there cash. So they are doing nothing to support the economy.
So basicly they just recieved a bonus and continue their old habits.

[WhiteWings]

Obviously, IMO, we are to look to God for all our needs, and every good and perfect gift does come from the Father (Js. 1:17).  Even if you or I do some things to prepare, it is still only through His provision, grace, mercy, and blessings. 

Further, we are to seek His face, trust in His arm of protection, "buy" of Him.

The question is does God provide freely or does He want something in return?
Example: God doesn't like gay marriage and abortion. Perhaps only who fight that receive help.
Jabcat you wrote "seek". What exactly you mean by that? Just praying or doing things in real life like I mentioned above.
God doesn't seem to do much directly apart from the flood and Sodom. He helped His people in wars etc but it was always the people doing the fighting. (with Godly background support)
So I think seeking is more than reading a few extra verses....

[jabcat]

"Seek" is a very good question.  Without thinking it through thoroughly, I can only share some thoughts I have on it.

Yes praying, being sensitive to what I believe to be His Spirit's leading (sometimes "get it", sometimes miss it).  Reading scripture.  For me that's starting each day with prayer and scripture reading.  Remembering to worship, just saying "Praise You God", thanking Him for blessings.  By doing so, meaning to love Him first and put Him first.  Attempting to humble my heart before Him and His will.  One of my favorite scriptures is about "walking humbly before our God".  Through the day praying/talking with Him, often as I feel Him prompting me to do so about different things.  Praying for other people.  Attempting to forgive others who have hurt me (or I perceive have done so).  My natural, fleshly tendency is to become angry and lash out.  God has worked and worked and worked with me for years, humbling me, convicting me, teaching me to be more loving, forgiving, to lash out more...LOL, I meant 'less'.  I still do, but He has really helped me with this.  It's His Spirit working through me to accomplish things I cannot do or will myself to do.  I am unable.

So to me, that's seeking Him, seeking His face.  Then as I walk with Him, I believe He gives me guidance, wisdom, the ability to make better decisions.  I have lately been feeling the urgent need to make some preparations for myself and my family - and as He enables and provides, I am so doing.  So as I seek Him, then other things fall into place.  He just brings this scripture to mind - "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these other things shall be added unto you".

So yes, also some of the things being discussed - as a byproduct of putting Him first and with His help, walking in His ways.  He leads us into truth.  Step by step, little by little.

Hope that at least pretty well answers your question.  Only by His power and enablement.  "In Him I live and breathe and have my being"..."I, yet not I", only leaves Him.  :bigGrin:

[Redlettervoice]

Surviving the coming economic crisis........

I read that article about "what to do" ........
buy up so much silver, HIDE IT IN THE CEREAL BOX....... :2c: :dontknow:

OK, everybody that does this, better PRAY too that a windstorm
doesn't come along and "blow" the cereal box away.

Just "think" about the safety of hiding silver in a cereal box!!!!

Some of us should be  practiced up ........been surviving a while.  :bgdance:

[WhiteWings]

OK, everybody that does this, better PRAY too that a windstorm
doesn't come along and "blow" the cereal box away.

Just make sure the box is heavy.
The question I ask myself is: If there is a real crisis with food shortage do people actually want to trade food for silver?
You can have a 1000 cereal boxes full of silver but still you will starve to death without the cereal....

[Molly]

May 11, 2009

DRAMATIC DEVELOPMENT:

WTP Federal Lawsuit to Ban All Electronic Voting Heads for Trial
Discovery Begins, Jury Will Decide the Law

In 2007, WTP instigated a federal lawsuit in New York seeking to hold election officials in all fifty states accountable for their deprivation of the People's fundamental Right to Vote because of the use of non-verifiable electronic and mechanical machine-based vote counting.

The case was dubbed the "National Clean Elections Lawsuit," or NCEL.




Although a 2008 Order from the U.S. District Court in Albany removed all the non-New York defendants, as of last week, the Court ordered the remaining parties to commence preparations for a jury trial.

Click here to read the U.S. District Court's Scheduling Order.


It must be noted that this is the first federal lawsuit ever to be approved for trial directly challenging the constitutional integrity of a state's official election procedures which are totally dependent, almost without exception, upon machine-based vote counting.



In the complaint, WTP supporters from all fifty states participated as plaintiffs arguing that the People have a fundamental, natural Right to know their votes are being accurately counted, and that it is unconstitutional for the Government to count our votes in secret -- which is precisely what happens when the "hidden" mechanisms of a machine (whether electronic or mechanical) counts the votes and produces a total.



The complaint further asserts that machine-based vote counting provides abundant opportunities for criminal sabotage, election fraud and errors of all types to occur at almost every step of the election process, beginning with the manufacture and maintenance of vote counting machines, and extending well into election night when machine-contrived vote totals are allegedly passed to, and broadcast by, a (privately-owned) national corporate media consortium without any official, public certification of local vote totals.   



The WTP complaint requests the Court impose not only a total ban all vote counting machines (mechanical and electronic) but to impose on state election officials a detailed manual vote counting and certification procedure based solely on the use of plain paper ballots, hand-marked, stored, counted and certified at each precinct level polling location, in full view of the public, at all times.


For more information, research and all the legal pleadings,
please go to the NCEL Lawsuit Information Center.





Elections May Never Be The Same Again



The historic NCEL lawsuit, tentatively scheduled for trial next year, now enters what is known as the pre-trial "discovery" phase.

Under the federal rules of civil procedure, the WTP plaintiffs are now entitled to issue interrogatories, subpoena witnesses, take sworn depositions, and demand documents, records and data from state officials and other defendants (who are liable in both their personal and official capacities), as well as records from third parties (such as corporations) which may have information pertinent to the controversy before the Court.


It is imperative to recognize the historical opportunity before us: 


We have had a U.S. District Court deny a request by the state of New York to dismiss the lawsuit for lack of jurisdiction, and

We have secured the Right to have a jury of our fellow citizens essentially decide whether the use of "black box" vote counting machines passes constitutional muster, and

We have an Order from a U.S. District Court stating that all the original Plaintiffs (removed from the New York case) are still entitled to bring similar charges against election officials in their own states, and

We have an opportunity to force the state of New York to produce sworn testimony and official records which may, following trial, result in a federal court order banning, for all time, the use of all electronic voting machines (and other contrivances) as well as patently deficient election procedures, which in the past have enabled massive election fraud to be perpetrated virtually without detection.



In short, the People have a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity through the NCEL lawsuit, to seize back control of the election machinery that state bureaucrats and the political parties have hijacked and used against the People to systemically deny us not only our Right to vote, but the fundamental Right to a enjoy a government of own creation and representation of our own choice. 



One must wonder after all, why it seems that those who "win" our elections and "represent" us have - despite our pleas and repeated Petitions, continued to destroy our Constitution and Republic without apparent constraint.  Is it possible that flawed and fraudulent elections have denied the People our true political voice?



This lawsuit is now our best chance to bring an end to election chicanery and restore integrity to the most fundamental process the People have designed into the Constitution for directly establishing and maintaining their servant government.


This is our chance to finally force government officials to publicly explain, under oath, exactly why they need anything more than a stack of paper ballots, a pen and a wooden box to conduct a fair and honest election.


http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/UPDATE/Update2009-05-11.htm

[Molly]

What our founders knew--


6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

--Rev 1


"kings'

G935
βασιλεύς
basileus
bas-il-yooce'
Probably from G939 (through the notion of a foundation of power); a sovereign (abstractly, relatively or figuratively): - king.

[jabcat]

Molly, the people taking back the government is an interesting thought.  Surely 100-150 years ago there wasn't this much corruption, starting at the top down, as there is today.  Obviously we weren't alive then, but it seems from history (whether it's accurate or not) that men (generally) served more from duty/obligation/a desire to help improve things rather than either the career politicians or the narcissistic power-hungry socialist elite we now have.  I need to keep reminding myself God's in control and will have the final say. 

WW, I know what you're saying about silver and cereal.  IMO, it's a good thing to have BOTH if God provides the means to do so.  What do you think about that?  Diversification, as it were.

Funny RLV.  My wife was just kidding about the cereal box thing today.  I told her I didn't trust it.  However, I now have a better understanding of what this was all about;  http://lslinks.laughingsquid.com/1960s-country-corn-flakes-commercial