Our position of nonviolence as Christians?

[martincisneros]

I know.  People that make 6 and 7 figures are never charged with embezzlement. :laughing7:

[rosered]

 

  cute hee hee .......

Wasn't Judas the treasurer of the group? Why do you need a treasurer if you are broke?




I guess you could look at it as why tip your hand into it if your so well paid?

what is amazing to me are the hirelings !!
 who hired them ?
 and what are they doing ? who is watching them ?
 etc .. :mshock:

and what does Jesus mean when he says  all that ever  came before Him ?
 is that like stood  in front of Him  like a stumbling block ?
 or  does  He mean   before He appeared  from above ?

and Judas  was one known among them ? hum ??

Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.


Jhn 10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.


Jhn 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.


Jhn 10:10 The thief comes not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly.


Jhn 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd gives  his life for the sheep.


Jhn 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep, and flees: and the wolf catchs them, and scatters the sheep. !!

Jhn 10:13 The hireling flees, because he is an hireling, and cares not for the sheep.

Jhn 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine.  

 are the hirelings those who stand in the marketplace waiting for work ?

[rosered]

I know.  People that make 6 and 7 figures are never charged with embezzlement. :laughing7:

like Judas? they may  have the same fate  :mshock:   in the END !!

[martincisneros]

And on "Our position of nonviolence as Christians" Judas is a good case study.  Jesus never publicly outted him as a thief.  I'm not sure how much of that was because Peter was one of those cutting Christians that would have busted out with the knife and tried to slit Judas's throat over it.  Jesus just avoided the strife at all costs, even if it meant a little extra fasting and praying for there to be much more to care for every need, including ol' sticky fingers.  If Jesus told everyone what Judas had been doing, then it was likely after Judas's death.  Stealing leads to death.  John 10:10 begins with "the thief comes not but for to steal, kill, and destroy..."  A lot of people twist the wording around as kill, steal, and destroy, but Jesus was careful in how He worded that.  Jesus said in that same verse "I am come that they (i.e. the thieves) might have life and have it more abundantly."

[martincisneros]

Jhn 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep, and flees: and the wolf catchs them, and scatters the sheep. !!
Jhn 10:13 The hireling flees, because he is an hireling, and cares not for the sheep.

are the hirelings those who stand in the marketplace waiting for work ?

According to Jesus, the hireling is someone that runs from the sheep when danger approaches.  In today's world, when there's a better paying job at another Church, or leaving them spiritually in allowing public opinion to shape what they preach and teach.

According to Jesus, a hireling isn't a hireling because he makes really good money.  Jesus wants us to make good money.  You can't keep many of His commandments without good money.  A hireling bases his calling upon convenience and danger rather than the Word of God and the call of the Spirit.

[Molly]

Jesus was never poor a day in His life until He went to the Cross (2Corinthians 8:9 He that was rich BECAME...so that...we'd be rich).

Ah, Thanks Martin.  You make some very good points.  I guess I was noticing that he was never ostentatiously wealthy--big house of his own, lots of servants, lots of land.  But I forgot about the gold that the Magi brought. lol Guess that might go far.

Nevertheless, what I said still stands in that Jesus comes out of nowhere, no one knows who he is, and in three years overturns the world.  I'm looking at this from a worldly point of view.  He's a carpenter's son from a small out of the way town, with a bunch of ragtag fishermen following him.

I realize Paul comes from a highly educated background, wealthy family, a Roman citizen, a Pharisee --he has all the credentials to get attention in that world.  But Jesus?  No, he did not.

So my point was--Jesus was not a likely person to threaten the power structure of the day, but that is exactly what he was doing.  They were very threatened by him.

[rosered]

  cute hee hee .......

Wasn't Judas the treasurer of the group? Why do you need a treasurer if you are broke?




I guess you could look at it as why tip your hand into it if your so well paid?

what is amazing to me are the hirelings !!
 who hired them ?
 and what are they doing ? who is watching them ?
 etc .. :mshock:

and what does Jesus mean when he says  all that ever  came before Him ?
 is that like stood  in front of Him  like a stumbling block ?
 or  does  He mean   before He appeared  from above ?

and Judas  was one known among them ? hum ??

Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.


Jhn 10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.


Jhn 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.


Jhn 10:10 The thief comes not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly.


Jhn 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd gives  his life for the sheep.


Jhn 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep, and flees: and the wolf catchs them, and scatters the sheep. !!

Jhn 10:13 The hireling flees, because he is an hireling, and cares not for the sheep.

Jhn 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine.  

 are the hirelings those who stand in the marketplace waiting for work ?

In what respect? After a Spiritual truth or a carnal one?  :grin: Im pretty sure we are to warn of wolves if we see one  :grin: Paul did

yeppers we are to sis !    after'' both ''maybe cause Paul did do that as well !  openly



For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, [concerning] him that hath so done this deed,


1Cr 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,


1Cr 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


1Cr 5:6 Your glorying [is] not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?


1Cr 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:


1Cr 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth.

[rosered]

  Well Molly and Kim ,
we are in critical times right  now
  and it is hard not  to see all the things taking shape in the world ,  not just the USA
 
I know that firey passion  can  create  chaos  as  with fear doing the same
  it boils down to trust and    the scriptures say not to put our trust in man
  that is why we   ARE seeing  the man of sin revealed to me 
look at the messes and history repeating itself over and over again 

  satan is  only as good as its  messengers  and thats what  the media  consists of

  for me I see that no man knows why he does what he does at the time 
  we can only look back and  realize  by conscience sake   what kind of act/deed we have done and for what reason we have done  what we did
  I have those times myself and   try to repent   if it has done harm to others
   the nature of a beast / man who is driven to destruction   does not seem to have  that   type  of conscience  ?    the heart may harden  or some other factor   because why would some one seeing all the   suffering  going on   and had the power to do something about it not even try too ? 

  that is my dilema .
  peace and love in Him  rose

[Molly]

But you are sorta left with "What do I do"? "Do I say something"? "Would I want to know"?... Yes and No (to be honest) It took me to "looking at the things in this world" and thats the last place I believe I should be looking at, so why am I? I dont know, Im still quite baffled about whys of it all.  

Just knowing the truth, and being sensitive to truth versus lie, is a huge step.  If everyone could take that step, all of this would stop tomorrow.  Because lies that are exposed to light just shrivel up and die.

You might think well a certain event happened years ago, and just now am I finding out the truth about it.  Why did it take so long?  First of all, why would you question anything you were told by 'authorities' unless you knew to do so?  No one questions people they are taught to trust.

I can guarantee you, it won't happen to you again.  I can tell by reading your posts that you won't easily be fooled again.  And, that is a huge progress.  Truth seekers slow them down and make their job all that much harder.  We all benefit with every person added to a dedication to truth.

That particular event, I knew the first day what was going on.  I spent the next week studying the architecture of the buildings, studying controlled demolition, studying the characteristics of fire and the temperature at which steel melts,  studying the news (when something big happens the truth always leaks out in the first 48 hours or so because they are reporting it around the clock and the reporters can just throw it out there uncensored).  There are good people in the news who do their best to slip things out, to tell the truth.   But after about three days, we settle into the official story told by all.  So I always watch the news around the clock during such a time, tape it, etc.  Now we have people taping it and throwing it up on youtube for posterity, so they are hoisted on their own lies.  But I saw all of that in real time because I was looking for it.  So the first week, I worked hard to confirm what I knew the first day.

It's a different way of thinking.  It's a different way of looking at the world.  And, it has made me feel so much closer to Jesus because he dealt with it head on.  He called them vipers, den of thieves!  What is going on now has always gone on--tyranny and thieves and vipers are as old as the hills.  The difference today is not the bad, it is the good.  That is what most miss--the good that we have today, the rights, the freedom, the charity--all of that is what is new.  And, that comes directly out of the New Testament.

But, the second piece of it is what is so hard.  It takes two people to tell a lie--one to tell it and the other to believe it.  So we have to look at ourselves and see what is in ourselves that made a deal with the devil look attractive.  Why were we willing to buy the lie.  We benefitted somehow from the lie or we would have paid more attention to those nagging doubts--because everyone has a conscience.   And, we were willing to benefit at another's expense. We were willing to be detached.  We were willing to give in to fear.  That's probably the biggest reason most people are not receptive.  If they face the truth, they might have to do something about it.

One thing about the devil, he always throws the truth in somewhere amidst the lies.   It's almost as if he's required to do so.  But, then, he can say to himself and to God--they had no excuse, they did it to themselves.  It really is a spiritual battle, fought every day.  This is where the rubber meets the road.


9Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

10Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

11But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

--Job 1

[Nathan]

It's much more affective to save one from drowing, when you yourself are not in the water they're drowning in.  If we are to be the light of the world, it would then be most effective if we not focus on the darkness there within. 

When Jesus was prophesying of what was coming to Israel shortly after he left, his message was "you will hear rumors, you will see changes . . .major events are going to take place all around you . . .but don't get caught up in the noise of it all.  Stay tuned to the "sound" of my voice.

As eagles, we can bring meat to others when they are molting . .that's our purpose as we are hovering over the hurting . .but if we get bound up in the despair "with" them, we will be as entangled in the earthly matters as much as the next person and no longer having an affect on anyone.  God has lifted us up to high places where flight is required.  And I think much of what "I" am to do is, when I do see despair . . .love on those going through it, and "call out" the things in the spirit that need to manifest in the flesh. 

We have the power to loose and to bind.  This isn't just about casting out a demon . . .this is about taking the kingdom through the tools that have been provided.  And they are not mind tools, emotion tools or any kind of carnal/natural thing, they are spirit . . . bring liberty to the captive . . .pray over them as a king would speak over his nation.  I've heard you speak . . .you have the language of one who flies . .that is why there's been so much life that's come in the last day or two,  a flyer has joined others and the Spirit rejoices when we fly in flocks . . .don't let the natural disasters, and the dark faith of the things around you clip your wings.

Blessings.

[Molly]

It's much more affective to save one from drowing, when you yourself are not in the water they're drowning in.  If we are to be the light of the world, it would then be most effective if we not focus on the darkness there within.

5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

--John 1


Look at that statement.    The darkness does not comprehend the light--it doesn't understand it.  So this is the first step:  To teach the darkness to comprehend the light.

But, look, there is a second step, even if the darkness can be taught to understand the light, it must be taught to desire it:


19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

--John 3


If Jesus cannot teach us such things, who can?

Isn't this the function of a city on a hill?

[rosered]

 

  I know what you are saying Nate , Molly and Kimmy

  Jesus told us we are  in the world but not of it .. .  thats  good enough for me  :thumbsup:






Jhn 14:11 Believe me that I [am] in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.


Jhn 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believes on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


Jhn 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Jhn 14:14 If you shall ask any thing in my name, I will do [it].

Jhn 14:15 If you love me, keep my commandments.


Jhn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;


Jhn 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it sees him not, neither knows him: but you know him; for he dwells  with you, and shall be in you.


Jhn 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.


Jhn 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world sees me no more; but you see me: because I live, you shall live also.


Jhn 14:20 At that day you shall know that I [am] in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.

  this is awesome , and when you hear what the Spirit is saying   this speaks directly to you .. :HeartThrob:

[Nathan]

[quote Look at that statement.    The darkness does not comprehend the light--it doesn't understand it.  So this is the first step:  To teach the darkness to comprehend the light


[/quote]

Light = spirit
darkness = flesh

I'm not sure you "can" teach darkness light.  You can drive darkness out with light . .. but I'm not sure you can get darkness to comprehend the light.

[Nathan]

It's much more affective to save one from drowing, when you yourself are not in the water they're drowning in.  If we are to be the light of the world, it would then be most effective if we not focus on the darkness there within.

5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

--John 1


Look at that statement.    The darkness does not comprehend the light--it doesn't understand it.  So this is the first step:  To teach the darkness to comprehend the light.

But, look, there is a second step, even if the darkness can be taught to understand the light, it must be taught to desire it:


19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

--John 3


If Jesus cannot teach us such things, who can?

Isn't this the function of a city on a hill?

For me, the teaching is for my spirit to teach my head what submission is all about.  But when Christ brings the clarity, for me again, it's not so much that he's teaching "anything" but he's "revealing" and "planting" life in my spirit, which then (broken record time) conceives this seed into my mind, which then becomes impregnated because my mind submitted to my spirit as it "moved' over the face (identity) of my deep and in time, understanding is birthed and fruit manifests .  . but it's by way of revelation through relationship  . . . :soap:

[Molly]

[quote Look at that statement.    The darkness does not comprehend the light--it doesn't understand it.  So this is the first step:  To teach the darkness to comprehend the light




Light = spirit
darkness = flesh

I'm not sure you "can" teach darkness light.  You can drive darkness out with light . .. but I'm not sure you can get darkness to comprehend the light.

But if we all start in darkness--some will comprehend.  So he sends out his teachers and says to them  move through every town spreading the light.  If some don't comprehend it after you have done that, move on--wipe the dust from your feet.

So the idea is that some will be called out of the darkness into his marvelous light.

And, we have to believe--it will be enough to make a difference.


Isaiah 9:2
The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.

[reFORMer]

"I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom." (Dan 7:21-22)  To say because of your wickedness the rain will not fall in this or that nation except according to my word and the heaven is closed for 3 1/2 years, to give a word that works such that none can gainsay or resist, to be so with God no army can arrest you or prevent you from ministering healing and deliverance to humanity, this does violence to carnal orders but brings in the peace of God.  How do we get there?

We are to, "Watch and pray always, that ye may be counted worthy to escape the time coming upon the earth, and to stand before the son of man."  Can a gang of soldiers still get me if someone higher up the chain of command despises my Jesus? or, am I in a place now where I could say to them as they arrive to seize me, "If I am a man of God, let fire come forth from the Lord and consume you!"  It is not weapons of carnal warfare that will enforce the kingdom of God, but what comes from the annointing upon the transformed human that supercedes what is born of Adam.  O, to know the path on into this incorruptible life that has dawned within us in the name of Jesus!  Who is teaching such things?  Please, tell me what they say.

[Taffy]

The Light is Christ.again Two fold,
He walked as LIGHT(TRUE LIFE ,understanding) in the Darkness of the Understanding of His country folk, it twas HIM they couldnt comprehend.

He also Dwells Within , hid behind the veil , and the Darkness of Soul( Heart and Mind) Understand it NOT, Tis when the veil Is Torn , Darkness is Illuminated( I count it Dross) , Just Like Paul who Eyes were in Darkness,Christ is The LIGHT in us which iluminates The darkness of the soul. :icon_flower:

[Nathan]

GASP . . . .NNNNEEEEED . ..TTTO . . .CCCOOMME . . . .GASP . . .UUUPPP . . .FOR  . . . AIR!!!!!

I mean . . .uh . . . . :goodpost:  Yeah . .that's what I "meant" to say!!

[Molly]

But one thing changed Molly and I dont bring up "the devil" or "Satan" or look for one behind every tree, but for the first time (in relation to this Agenda) He became very real in the world to me, not just in any dispicable act in itself but in a much broader scale.

Yes!  He's real and hard at work every day. He's very good at what he does.   It's a wonder things aren't worse than they are.

So why on earth was I taken from my blissful studies of the blessed mysteries of God and those spiritual treasures I basked in daily to behold THESE THINGS?

I think because, as the man says, faith without works is dead.  We are meant to implement it in the real world.  Salt.  He's made us salt.  Salt that loses its saltiness is good for nothing except to be trodden on in the streets.  How can anything change if his people are dying for lack of knowledge?

I read somewhere that every phone call is counted for 100 phone calls, and every letter for 1000 letters.  In other words, they know that if someone is willing to take the time to write a letter, there are 1000 people out there who are that upset.

Small numbers can change things.  Because small numbers are indicative of a much larger base.

Everyone needs to pick one thing and do it.  For instance, all the states are changing over to black box voting.  Well, if there was ever a no brainer, that is one.  Just press this button and the machine will count the votes.  It's not who votes that count, it's who counts the votes, and who programs the machine.  We need to return to little old ladies counting the votes by hand in a public forum with lots of witnesses.  Preservation of freedom takes time, and effort, and dedication.  There's a thousand little things like that where a small effort makes a huge difference.

Yes, pray for our leaders--but make them show their birth certificates, so that we know that our military is not reporting to a foreign national.


PS Have you read about Noam Chomsky's 'manufactured consent'?  Because that is exactly what you are describing.

[Nathan]

NOW you ask . . .I gotta go home . . my day here is over . . .I have ONE DAY LEFT tomorrow and after that, I'm off until January 3rd . . .I will try to check in from home, but it's never as much as what I can do when I'm here.  Right now, my daughter is waiting for me to go out to an expensive ice cream joint . . .yeah, it's 5 below out and she's wanting ice cream . . .but . . .whadya do?  I like Ice cream!!!!

Not to worry, Genesis is "in" us and it'll pour out whenever we turn that faucet on.  I do look forward to you getting off the ground a bit and come and play . . .perhaps tomorrow, perhaps in January, I'm told it's worth the wait.

[SQ]

 I have just found this thread, Kim you have much Wisdom praise the Lord.
I really want to thank all of you that has posted, it has helped me and I am pretty sure many others. :thumbsup:
I am planning on reading it in its entirety, hopefully before the night is over.
I just wanted to encourage  :HeartThrob:

[SQ]

Thank you Kim for the welcome, I am new here don't post much but do read here lots since I discovered the board.
I will have to finish tomorrow I keep reading and rereading so is taking me much longer than anticipated.
No use in reading for just words only, I need to soak this in.. :bgdance:
Anyway Thank You, Molly and others.
You both seem to be in unison with my thoughts also. Night Night.  :cloud9:

[reFORMer]

Three days before 9/11 I saw one of the Cherubim, the one with the eagle face.  Much could be said about this.

The day before 9/11, 9/10, 9/11 itself, and 9/12 I experienced a light and I was brought into a realm slightly higher than we are normaly in during those 3 days.  It was brightest on 9/11 and on that day the voice of the Spirit said over and over and over many times:  "We are not of the nations.  We are not of the nations.  We are not of the nations..."

I'm finding a call to come up higher.  Not to be blind but to look into the glory.  Fireinfolding, I have to go to bed.  It's very late for me.  I hope we can continue this.  There are many things some of us not only see but that we are going through because of the manipulations of evil men.  I wish I could talk more about it while sharing what I'm getting from God.

your brother, James Rohde

[Molly]

"We are not of the nations.  We are not of the nations.  We are not of the nations..."

What does this mean?

[reFORMer]

Ep 2:5-7, 19...
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Col 1:12-13...
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: ("into the kingdom of the son of His love")

We were terrestial goyim "of the nations" but, now we are Celestial "true Jews."

Php 3:20-21...
20 For our "conversation" (lit., "realm") is in heaven (lit., "the heavens"); from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.