I understand that as Christians we are called to be nonviolent. I just got done watching a program about some peace activists who were promoting TOTAL nonviolence in the name of Jesus. More than once they referred to Jesus' nonviolent example and his teachings against violence. I will say that I had a lot of respect for them and I agreed with a lot of what they had to say. After all, God's kingdom will be nonviolent. So really these peace people are fighting for something that God wants also. The only thing is, evil still exists, and its getting worse all the time. But then again, evil existed during Jesus' time, and yet he was nonviolent period. What do you all think about the subject of nonviolence? It is an attribute of Jesus which we humans have not acquired yet.
The problem with things like this is the focusing on one principle of the Covenant of Christ and not on the whole Covenant. In context, and doing it the way that He wanted it done, by grace, faith, hope, and love in a context of abiding in Him and His Word abiding in us, perfectly (which isn't hard), then the shield of faith should wrap around you to where no one can touch you. Christian people tend to be so incredibly supernaturally negative that all they focus on are the martyr testimonies and never look through the tens of thousands of Christians that have been supernaturally kept out of harm's way by God giving His angels charge over them according to Psalm 91 and various statements of the New Testament. You can find those throughout Christian history if you're not caught up with the blood and guts of history like all of the rest of the vampires that can't seem to ever find anything else in history.
Probably more of 'em have been delivered than have been slaughtered and turned into Gentile sandwiches. We're here to testify to the truth in love, otherwise when we got saved we would have gone straight to heaven 'cause that's the only reason we're needed here for. Nothing else matters except for delivering a truthful testimony, in love, as when Christ Jesus gave the good testimony before Pontius Pilate. St. Paul's one of the very few that ever caught on to what a new creation in Christ was capable of growing towards if they'd stop goofing off and yielding to their emotions and start caring about how others feel more than they care about how they themselves feel. St. Paul summarized the whole aim of the Christian life in 1Corinthians 11:1. Lord Jesus grabbed me by the shirt this evening and was sternly rebuking me for being too cowardly to say that with conviction. So, that's what 2009 is about for me; being able to say that without choking to death on my own spit. :faint:
Christianity is meant to be very, very violent, according to Romans 13, 1Corinthians 9, 2Corinthians 10, Ephesians 6, and 2Timothy 2, among other passages. Violence is the only way to go, when you know how to attack in the way that Christ Jesus did after the murder of John the Baptist. Violence is what Jesus did immediately after cleaning out the Temple with the whip. To prove He wasn't the least bit angry, He immediately started healing people. If you've ever done much healing ministry, then you know that there's nothing more tender than that, with the exception of ruining a wake by raising 'em from the dead. Christianity is meant to be very, very, very violent, but not against flesh and blood. I pray that everyone that has been a Christian for a really long while, but has never cast out demons is put into a position by the Holy Spirit to where they can't get out of 2009 without having to do that. You haven't had any fun until you've come out of something like that singing at the top of your lungs about your name being written in the Lamb's book of life.
I guess I shouldn't admit that I have a concealed carry permit? :mblush:. Personally, I agree, our very best protection is our Father's presence, and especially on a personal level, I believe we need to turn the other cheek...God's actually been working with me lately on that very thing. Seems to me though (which may be wrong) there may be a time to protect your family or others from a maniac with a gun or knife who has the intent to rape your daughter/wife, etc. I haven't researched this, I need to, but I do recall the verse where Jesus told one of the disciples to bring his sword, didn't he? I'm going to look at that. I do carry, but I'll admit, I sometimes wonder about it.
Here's where I currently am with this. Trust God for protection; be prepared in case I might need my "sword", for whatever reason. If it's God's will, I won't ever have to use it. On the other hand, it may be his blessing to me/my family that I have it if I ever need to.
There has been a case or two where a madman opened fire on innocents during a worship service. Maybe I'm really carnal, but I'm pretty sure if I were in that situation that dude wouldn't be too happy that I was sittin' in service that day :sigh:. I never finished it, but I started writing a song recently called "A Little Like Peter"...
It is God who said, "Thou shalt not kill." If I love God with all my heart, mind, soul, strength, then approving of God and His word, with all my strength backing up, "You shall not kill," and that means me . . . I have the principle of self-defense and just wars.
Quote from: jabcat on December 09, 2008, 09:26:24 AM
I guess I shouldn't admit that I have a concealed carry permit? :mblush:.
A lot of theologians since the Reformation wouldn't have it any other way 'cause of the provide for your household or being worse than an infidel passage and lots of other passages. Just depends on where you live and what God's given you the most peace about where that's concerned. I've been wanting one. In Texas, if you emptied every gun, in a house full of guns, into a burglar you couldn't be prosecuted. Burglaries have gotten bad enough in the D/FW area to where I'm glad 'cause lots of women have babies or are pregnant or there winds up being a dozen other reasons why if your faith isn't to that level, then you better be able to blow their heads completely off.
It's like faith in the Word for your health and healing. You have to develop it daily over time, but if you haven't, you had better get your rear end down to the emergency room if your lower right side starts hurting like nobody's business. All of the principles of the Word are daily activities or the power won't be there when you need it and you better know what the next best thing is in each case.
I've been in three of those situations where I was saved supernaturally. In one of them, I was preparing to kick my attacker down two flights of stairs ( a two story drop straight down) when I heard a voice say, 'that will kill him.' So I didn't do it. God sent an 'angel' instead to scare him off. I am very grateful to not have that on my conscience.
I consider the second amendment very important because it acts as a deterrant to tyrants and robbers. In places where people are known to have guns, there is less crime. The first thing a dictator does is disarm the population. Our founders knew what they were doing. Concealed carry may have saved 33 souls in the Virginia Tech incident. As it was, they were sitting ducks for a madman.
Meanwhile, we seem to have been embroiled in several 'pre-emptive' wars in the last several years. I'll leave it to you history buffs to figure out the last country to use that strategy. But, this has nothing to do with Christianity, although Christians might think so. Jesus commands us to love our enemies. There's no two ways about it. And the fact that the most powerful nation in history, a country that really has nothing to fear from any other country in the world, can't manage that much is...well...shameful.
LOL and praise be to God...all three of you, good posts :thumbsup:. I work from 4 PM to 4 AM in downtown St. Louis. There have been over 150 homicides here this year. I've had multiple people on foot try to stop my car. For awhile in the smaller community in which I live, burglars were finding ways into people's houses while they were sleeping. Honestly, right now, unless God were to make it very clear to me, I would refuse to be without a firearm in my house. And when I'm out, especially in the city, I have one on my person.
On the other hand, if you PM me right now and cuss me out, I really believe my responsibility is to treat you kindly, lovingly, try to reason with you, and if that doesn't work, then work on forgiving, loving, and praying for you. I'm generally pretty lousy at that, but that's my goal, and where God has been teaching me to.
God's blessing, James.
Quote from: fullarmor2 on December 06, 2008, 06:32:59 PM
I understand that as Christians we are called to be nonviolent. I just got done watching a program about some peace activists who were promoting TOTAL nonviolence in the name of Jesus. More than once they referred to Jesus' nonviolent example and his teachings against violence. I will say that I had a lot of respect for them and I agreed with a lot of what they had to say. After all, God's kingdom will be nonviolent. So really these peace people are fighting for something that God wants also. The only thing is, evil still exists, and its getting worse all the time. But then again, evil existed during Jesus' time, and yet he was nonviolent period. What do you all think about the subject of nonviolence? It is an attribute of Jesus which we humans have not acquired yet.
Ro 12:17 To no one render evil instead for evil, making ideal provision in the sight of all humanmen,
Ro 12:18 if possible that which comes out from yourselves. Being at peace with all mankind,
To me as many other things there is a balance and there is a reason for the words of scripture. The words "If possible" is not just a page filler.
Peter was not told he was sinning when he raised the sword to the soldiers, he was only told that it would be futile to do so.
That perhaps is the reasoning to want to be peaceful and I acknowledge that to the best of our ability we should try to be.
The mennonite religion embraces total passivity, meaning even if someone break into your home and rapes and kills your entire family, the Godly person will stand by and not raise a finger to stop it.
Well, as far as I am concerned, God will have to just punish me for stopping a criminal act if indeed that is sin. But, I do not believe that is rendering Evil for Evil, it is stopping it.
I believe standing up against evil and not taking the position of revenge and hatred towards the people perpetrating it is "making ideal provision in the sight of all humanmen".
Mat 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
This is very subjective. You could probably find a number of reasons to justify any stance on the subject.
I can't recall any account of Jesus ever doing bodily harm to anyone. He kicked a few table's butts, but He never struck anyone else even in self defense.
I think there are few rules that are absolute. The point is to do everything within our power to walk in love. Don't stand by and let someone hurt your family, but do everything you can to resolve the situation without violence.
Having a gentle spirit goes a long way. I played music in bars for almost 18 years, and in all that time I was never involved in one of the many bar fights I've been witness to. Read Proverbs. "A kind word turns away wrath."
They can't take your guns away. Read the bill of rights. You are allowed to poses as much armament and ammunition as one person can carry on their person. That is guaranteed. The message you keep hearing about this mysterious force that's going to try to take your guns is just a fear tactic. It's much like the people perpetuating the Hell doctrine. They want you to vote a certain way or believe a certain way so they appeal to your sense of fear.
Who is the "Ceaser" to which we should give our taxes then? Jesus wasn't talking about a certain person or entity. He was simply saying, "Do what you are required to do by those that govern you". We are to obey the laws of the land. Don't listen to all of that alarmist propaganda.
I oppologize if I offended you with that little tirade. I'm sure there is some ligitimate reason for concern regarding some of these things.
I'm just bombarded with people every day talking about dropping bombs on the middle East and turning it into a big parking lot, and other rediculous crap like that.
I just think it's funny that people are willing to buy a bottle of water for $2.00 that they could get out of the tap for 3 cents, but they complain about the price of a gallon of gas. Especially people driving big honkin vehicles that get 8 miles to the gallon. At some point we are all going to have to learn to conserve.
Yes, I'm one of those liberal idealistic idiots. Tree huggin Hippie, that's me.
Quote from: Fireinfolding on December 21, 2008, 10:41:21 AM
Quote from: alihaymeg on December 21, 2008, 08:58:59 AM
They can't take your guns away. Read the bill of rights. You are allowed to poses as much armament and ammunition as one person can carry on their person. That is guaranteed. The message you keep hearing about this mysterious force that's going to try to take your guns is just a fear tactic. It's much like the people perpetuating the Hell doctrine. They want you to vote a certain way or believe a certain way so they appeal to your sense of fear.
Who is the "Ceaser" to which we should give our taxes then? Jesus wasn't talking about a certain person or entity. He was simply saying, "Do what you are required to do by those that govern you". We are to obey the laws of the land. Don't listen to all of that alarmist propaganda.
So you'll use the constition (which is under attack) to assure me on bearing arms but you nullify it when you dont understand the power of *congress* to COIN was given away to "private bankers" who arent to govern us BECAUSE they are not FEDERAL but deceptively use that name though they are PRIVATE.
They are no more federal then federal express. Have you at all looked into the vast amount of information on the federal reserve everyones finally getting an eye opener on?
You honestly dont know me too well to assume I'm unaware of our rights to bear arms. The Soveriengty of this nation will be lost under the NAU (North American Union, aka SPP) have you at all looked into that? Its accepted as mainstream now when it was laughed at last year, same as folks were turning their ears away from the economic crises folks were warning others about.
WHO is the alarmists? Was it the guy who told me that gas (when it was $1.50 a gallon) would go to $4.00 a gallon? Was he THAT alarmist (and liar to me)? Was he deceived when in July 27th when he told me a barrel of oil would go below $50 a barrel and remain there for 6-9 months (as it is now) THEN soon after we would be praying for $4.00 a gallon? Hmmm I dont know, the first two were right on the money, got a few months to go to see another yo yo action he's been such an "alarmist" about :grin: What a truthful liar he was lol WHO is the alarmist? Colin powel talking bout a generated crises too? How bout Joe Biden (unknowing speaking in the same accord)? How about Ron Paul or Peter Schiff, how about Celente? Are they unreliable kooks over matters they have proven discerning time and again on things like this?
Such alarmists :grin: Just to name a minute few
How bout Noah for that matter :grin:
Heck what does God say, if any man see the sword coming ...say nothing??
Just whisper sweet nothings in their ears?
Noah was just a conspiracy theorist listening to alarmists.
Im not afraid Im prepared I THOUGHT at first they were crazy and I SAID SO and I also apologized because Im not one who will not research a thing to death and thank God I wasnt afraid of the mocking to the point I feared what others would say about "me" that I compromised my own searching or words to please those who would laugh (even as I did).
Short time will tell :thumbsup:
So tell me Kim, what will happen to the stock market in the next two years based on your research, "further die/drop, or rebound". Money can be made either way, just need to be on the right side.
any thots
z
Quote from: KimI had no idea ...I didnt know ...I wasnt informed ...
Are you saying you had no idea about any of this stuff until God put you in bed for 11 weeks with nothing better to do than learn the truth? LOL. I love it. Is that what you're saying? God is Wonderful, isn't he?
Many have been following these developments for decades. It is a constant battle, as darkness contends to snuff out all light in the world. Once you start looking at things closely the mask falls away, the scales fall from your eyes, and nothing is ever the same. But, most don't take the time. And, most don't have the courage.
He promised that he would lead us into all truth. And, he does. There's no escaping truth once you are open to it because nothing else makes any sense to a sane mind.
In these days God has given us an amazing world wide interactive mind on the internet--(they are working hard to shut that down, too). The truth is at your fingertips, and one mind is working tirelessly to expose it.
Could it make a difference? If a critical mass is reached, if the '100th monkey' picks up the fruit and washes it in the river, yes it could. Because once the 100th monkey does it, they all do it. If you can no longer fool people, there is hope. And, God has promised us that someday, that will be the case. So I wait, and I hope.
1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
you have been catching up aint ya sis...
It seems Issues are More open In the Uk..doesnt come as a shock...
:icon_flower:
Quote from: KimI'm one of the last to know because I only read scripture I would never turn on the TV or get involved in the things of this world EVER my circumstances (whether divinely arranged or not) pushed me into this in ways beyond my control because I certainly had no inclination (whatsoever) to even TOUCH upon them.
You won't get any of this from TV because it is completely controlled, so you haven't missed anything by not watching TV. God showed this to you. Even when you lay it out in front of people in the easiest fashion, only a very few will walk through the fire to accept it. Truth burns our hearts and minds when we learn that everything we know is wrong. Not many are willing to go there, unless they are forced to go there. We are not yet forced, it is happening by increments, in baby steps, and still there are those who are fighting tirelessly against it--unknown and unnamed heros who have taken the command of Jesus to heart--
take up your cross and follow me. We will never know how many have died in the pursuit of bringing truth to light.
Jesus means for us to be free, to live in the light, to have abundant life. That's why I keep hoping he will get us there, because we are there now in actuality if not in reality. All we have to do is stand up and grasp it. Yes, it could be the days of Noah. I have thought that, too. And, I certainly have my quaker oats, lol. But, it could also be Daniel 2, because Daniel tells us the last empire will fail, --it has feet of clay and iron, and they do not mix. The only weapon against this monster is the truth.
43And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure. --Daniel 2
Quote from: Taffy on December 21, 2008, 09:22:50 PM
you have been catching up aint ya sis...
It seems Issues are More open In the Uk..doesnt come as a shock...
:icon_flower:
well, why should it shock you? You still think that you should have a Queen. :laughing7:
We are not used to thinking of ourselves as landless peasants with NO rights. :laughing7:
Quote from: Molly on December 21, 2008, 09:40:44 PM
Quote from: Taffy on December 21, 2008, 09:22:50 PM
you have been catching up aint ya sis...
It seems Issues are More open In the Uk..doesnt come as a shock...
:icon_flower:
well, why should it shock you? You still think that you should have a Queen. :laughing7:
We are not used to thinking of ourselves as landless peasants with NO rights. :laughing7:
Hey Molly Joking aside :laughing7:
Tis true about some who walk About with their Head up their Butt and that still think The Queen Rules...But not so many thesedays, So called Royalty hardly show their faces In public thesedays,..they are far more popular abroad
Theres something about the Brits,,theyll be pushed and pushed and pushed again....BUT then POW..CHECK OUR HISTORY, youll see it...
And Id have you Know, that Robert(s) were one of the Gentry...Check out the name meaning...oh Its me surname.
seems me Great, Great Gran Played away and got writ out the will...so Now Im a Pauper :icon_queen:
Quote from: Taffy on December 21, 2008, 09:52:35 PM
Quote from: Molly on December 21, 2008, 09:40:44 PM
Quote from: Taffy on December 21, 2008, 09:22:50 PM
you have been catching up aint ya sis...
It seems Issues are More open In the Uk..doesnt come as a shock...
:icon_flower:
well, why should it shock you? You still think that you should have a Queen. :laughing7:
We are not used to thinking of ourselves as landless peasants with NO rights. :laughing7:
Hey Molly Joking aside :laughing7:
Tis true about some who walk About with their Head up their Butt and that still think The Queen Rules...But not so many thesedays, So called Royalty hardly show their faces In public thesedays,..they are far more popular abroad
Theres something about the Brits,,theyll be pushed and pushed and pushed again....BUT then POW..CHECK OUR HISTORY, youll see it...
And Id have you Know, that Robert(s) were one of the Gentry...Check out the name meaning...oh Its me surname.
seems me Great, Great Gran Played away and got writ out the will...so Now Im a Pauper :icon_queen:
I hope so, I really hope that Spirit prevails. I've been watching England [and Canada] for years now, because it always happens to you a year or two before it happens to us. For instance, you got the cameras on every street corner about two years before we did. It was unthinkable to me when I saw your cameras going up that we would be next but I knew it would happen, because it is easier for them to control things there than here, so it takes them a little longer to implement it here. Now I have a camera on my sleepy little street corner, the only streetlight in 5 miles, nothing there but trees and a streetlight--and a camera. I've watched pastors thrown in jail in Canada, and free speech suppressed if somebody doesn't like what they are saying--and that's coming here, too, with our hate crimes bills.
The difference is--we could stop it in our congress--if only we would wake up as a people and demand that it stop.
Quote from: Molly on December 21, 2008, 10:01:21 PM
I've watched pastors thrown in jail in Canada, and free speech suppressed if somebody doesn't like what they are saying
My spiritual father has said that if he says anything Biblically against homosexuality on his television broadcast in Canada, even just one passing remark "that could be interpreted as...," and it's a $250,000 fine. That was about a decade ago when he said that, so who knows? Maybe they want more by now! And I'll guaranty that when the government gets that for so-called hate speech against homosexuals, that the local homosexuals won't see a penny of that going to a single one of their organizations. That's all government fund raising and you know it.
Quote from: KimA lie is a lie whether its told in a church building or whether its told on secular airways to the people and believing lies is not anything any one of us ever wants to do and so whether we have a love for the truth (His words and Himself) or whether we as people in these temporary nations the truth is an important matter lest we cast our vote to an unjust matter in whatever form it takes
Yes, but there's nothing new about any of this.
If you look at what Jesus actually did other than his teaching and his healing, he was in the faces of the oppressive rulers of the society of his day--who happened to be the 'priest set', the Pharisees and Sadducees, and the lawyers, the Scribes. Has anything changed? No. The purpose of power is to perpetrate itself unless you are talking about the power of God. That is what makes our God so wonderful. He wants to use all his mighty power for Life! Whereas, all earthly power is used for death (of someone else so you yourself can remain powerful).
Why do you think they killed him? He was in reality just a working class poverty stricken shoeless nobody. Why were they so afraid of him? What was he doing that forced their hand?
He was in their faces, that's what, telling the truth in a way that nobody could miss it. And, people were believing him. He was threatening their power base.
But, his example to us is that this is important, this will change the world--the truth is worth dying for.
QuoteGotta cook hubby dinner
WOW!..COOK ?, did I hear COOK?.....Thats Food Right sis? :laughing7:
Private Joke Guys :icon_flower:
Quote from: KimHave you ever watched "End of America by Naomi Wolfe" before? That was very informative and its a factual historic blueprint studied by all would be tyrants, sorta scary if you ask me, I never thought such a thing could happen here, sure is taking me by surprise because I didnt live back then to be able to see just HOW this happens and I can understand the blindness concerning it and even the denial.
Yes, it's good. I could have written it myself, as could anyone who has ever studied history. But, apparently no one has. Satan has NO imagination. He just keeps doing the same thing over and over again. You would think we would get it, eventually.
Just so you know--I am in complete agreement with everything you are saying. I support you. Not sure I'm making that clear.
Molly,
Jesus was never poor a day in His life until He went to the Cross (2Corinthians 8:9 He that was rich BECAME...so that...we'd be rich). John chapter 1 mentions His house that was big enough to have company in:
38Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou?
39He saith unto them, Come and see. They came and saw where he dwelt, and abode with him that day: for it was about the tenth hour.
Elsewhere, the reason the Son of man had nowhere to lay His head was because the city He was trying to go to rejected His advanced crusade team that tried to set up some meetings in that city. So, in that city Foxes had holes and birds of the air had nests, but in that city the Son of Man had nowhere to lay His head, so that's why they were about to go to the next city. In that day the gates of a city were either unanimously opened to someone or unanimously closed and Jesus was simply in a bad spot with having been turned away when someone came wanting to spend time with Him. Other times He'd take a buscuit and feed thousands. This was not a poor man. Soldiers don't shoot dice over cheap rags.
If He was poor in life, then He never kept the commandments of God a day in His life 'cause God said that if you'd obey Him that He'd make you rich. The Old Testament from cover to cover taught them to never pay the least bit of attention to a poor person's words except in matters of civil justice and in making sure that they had something to eat and wear. Beyond that, they weren't to be heard. God's not going to send His Son into a context where God Himself has said that you'd recognize His Son by His wisdom, signs and wonders, and wealth and then make a poor begging wino out of Him. Without going through every passage on this:
15Now there was found in it a poor wise man, and he by his wisdom delivered the city; yet no man remembered that same poor man.
16Then said I, Wisdom is better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom is despised, and his words are not heard. (Ecclesiastes 9:15-16)
And why would Jesus have needed Judas to keep up with His $2.50? Judas was the treasurer. Show me a poor man with an accountant these days! Just show me one and it'll suffice! And I don't mean his dad, brother, cousin, or uncle. I mean for real. A poor man with an accountant watching over so much that nobody knew that he was stealing except for Jesus and Jesus only knew it by the Holy Spirit.
Jesus told the disciples to feed the crowd and I believe it was Philip that asked "Do you want us to go and buy $14,000 worth of food?" (i.e. 200 penny worth in the KJV)
It's the last supper and the accountant walks out of the room. While most people would have thought he just went to the restroom, some of the disciples thought he must have been told by Jesus to go and give something to the poor. What about Judas screaming that what was poured on Jesus should have been sold and given to the poor? So, apparently Jesus didn't qualify as the poor for that to be given to. I could go on and on and on. Joseph was THE Carpenter when they were contesting Jesus's right to say what He was saying. There were 3 gifts, but not 3 wisemen. Those wisemen never traveled in carivans of less than 50. And they all brought gold and spices! All of 'em. And made their presentation to THE King of Kings and THE Lord of Lords.
Wealth attracts wealth. That's the only reason a dozen CEOs left everything to follow Him. They could afford it. When Jesus said that it's hard for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God they THUNDERED at Him "Who then can be saved??" Sounds like they'd of been rejoicing if they had holes in their shoes or no shoes at all, but they were deeply concerned at what Jesus had said. And Jesus only reply was, "all things are possible with God. AND those that have left all to follow Me will receive 100fold in this same lifetime with persecutions (i.e. people criticize wealthy preachers to the present day) and in the world to come eonian life." Ignorant and unlearned in Pharisaical tradition was the accusation in the book of Acts of Jesus' disciples, but never an accusation of poverty. St. Paul wasn't poor either 'cause otherwise how is a poor man going to be getting mugged all of the time? No, he was ready to be taken very seriously by Nero.
The Bible makes absolutely no provision for a poor Ambassador. Anyone that's ever done two kind deeds for His Majesty or has held two out of town meetings, knows that with the best of intentions and priorities they still need cash and God's grace is sufficient rather than the traditional view of it being insufficient so that they'd have to stay in the hands of the devil.
Wasn't Judas the treasurer of the group? Why do you need a treasurer if you are broke?
I know. People that make 6 and 7 figures are never charged with embezzlement. :laughing7:
cute hee hee .......
QuoteWasn't Judas the treasurer of the group? Why do you need a treasurer if you are broke?
I guess you could look at it as why tip your hand into it if your so well paid?
what is amazing to me are the hirelings !!
who hired them ?
and what are they doing ? who is watching them ?
etc .. :mshock:
and what does Jesus mean when he says all that ever came before Him ?
is that like stood in front of Him like a stumbling block ?
or does He mean before He appeared from above ?
and Judas was one known among them ? hum ??
Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
Jhn 10:8
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
Jhn 10:9
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Jhn 10:10 The thief comes not
, but for to steal, and
to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly.
Jhn 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd gives his life for the sheep.
Jhn 10:12
But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep, and flees: and the wolf catchs them, and scatters the sheep. !! Jhn 10:13
The hireling flees, because he is an hireling, and cares not for the sheep. Jhn 10:14
I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine. are the hirelings those who stand in the marketplace waiting for work ?
Quote from: martincisneros on December 22, 2008, 12:33:47 AM
I know. People that make 6 and 7 figures are never charged with embezzlement. :laughing7:
like Judas? they may have the same fate :mshock: in the END !!
And on "Our position of nonviolence as Christians" Judas is a good case study. Jesus never publicly outted him as a thief. I'm not sure how much of that was because Peter was one of those cutting Christians that would have busted out with the knife and tried to slit Judas's throat over it. Jesus just avoided the strife at all costs, even if it meant a little extra fasting and praying for there to be much more to care for every need, including ol' sticky fingers. If Jesus told everyone what Judas had been doing, then it was likely after Judas's death. Stealing leads to death. John 10:10 begins with "the thief comes not but for to steal, kill, and destroy..." A lot of people twist the wording around as kill, steal, and destroy, but Jesus was careful in how He worded that. Jesus said in that same verse "I am come that they (i.e. the thieves) might have life and have it more abundantly."
Quote from: rosered on December 22, 2008, 12:35:12 AM
Jhn 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep, and flees: and the wolf catchs them, and scatters the sheep. !!
Jhn 10:13 The hireling flees, because he is an hireling, and cares not for the sheep.
are the hirelings those who stand in the marketplace waiting for work ?
According to Jesus, the hireling is someone that runs from the sheep when danger approaches. In today's world, when there's a better paying job at another Church, or leaving them spiritually in allowing public opinion to shape what they preach and teach.
According to Jesus, a hireling isn't a hireling because he makes really good money. Jesus wants us to make good money. You can't keep many of His commandments without good money. A hireling bases his calling upon convenience and danger rather than the Word of God and the call of the Spirit.
Quote from: MartinJesus was never poor a day in His life until He went to the Cross (2Corinthians 8:9 He that was rich BECAME...so that...we'd be rich).
Ah, Thanks Martin. You make some very good points. I guess I was noticing that he was never ostentatiously wealthy--big house of his own, lots of servants, lots of land. But I forgot about the gold that the Magi brought. lol Guess that might go far.
Nevertheless, what I said still stands in that Jesus comes out of nowhere, no one knows who he is, and in three years overturns the world. I'm looking at this from a worldly point of view. He's a carpenter's son from a small out of the way town, with a bunch of ragtag fishermen following him.
I realize Paul comes from a highly educated background, wealthy family, a Roman citizen, a Pharisee --he has all the credentials to get attention in that world. But Jesus? No, he did not.
So my point was--Jesus was not a likely person to threaten the power structure of the day, but that is exactly what he was doing. They were very threatened by him.
Quote from: Fireinfolding on December 22, 2008, 12:49:10 AM
Quote from: rosered on December 22, 2008, 12:35:12 AM
cute hee hee .......
QuoteWasn't Judas the treasurer of the group? Why do you need a treasurer if you are broke?
I guess you could look at it as why tip your hand into it if your so well paid?
what is amazing to me are the hirelings !!
who hired them ?
and what are they doing ? who is watching them ?
etc .. :mshock:
and what does Jesus mean when he says all that ever came before Him ?
is that like stood in front of Him like a stumbling block ?
or does He mean before He appeared from above ?
and Judas was one known among them ? hum ??
Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
Jhn 10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
Jhn 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Jhn 10:10 The thief comes not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly.
Jhn 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd gives his life for the sheep.
Jhn 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep, and flees: and the wolf catchs them, and scatters the sheep. !!
Jhn 10:13 The hireling flees, because he is an hireling, and cares not for the sheep.
Jhn 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine.
are the hirelings those who stand in the marketplace waiting for work ?
In what respect? After a Spiritual truth or a carnal one? :grin: Im pretty sure we are to warn of wolves if we see one :grin: Paul did
yeppers we are to sis ! after'' both ''maybe cause Paul did do that as well ! openly
For I verily,
as absent in body, but present in spirit,
have judged already, as though I were present, [concerning]
him that hath so done this deed, 1Cr 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, and my spirit,
with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 1Cr 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1Cr 5:6 Your glorying [is] not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?
1Cr 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
1Cr 5:8 Therefore
let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness;
but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth.
Well Molly and Kim ,
we are in critical times right now
and it is hard not to see all the things taking shape in the world , not just the USA
I know that firey passion can create chaos as with fear doing the same
it boils down to trust and the scriptures say not to put our trust in man
that is why we ARE seeing the man of sin revealed to me
look at the messes and history repeating itself over and over again
satan is only as good as its messengers and thats what the media consists of
for me I see that no man knows why he does what he does at the time
we can only look back and realize by conscience sake what kind of act/deed we have done and for what reason we have done what we did
I have those times myself and try to repent if it has done harm to others
the nature of a beast / man who is driven to destruction does not seem to have that type of conscience ? the heart may harden or some other factor because why would some one seeing all the suffering going on and had the power to do something about it not even try too ?
that is my dilema .
peace and love in Him rose
Quote from: KimBut you are sorta left with "What do I do"? "Do I say something"? "Would I want to know"?... Yes and No (to be honest) It took me to "looking at the things in this world" and thats the last place I believe I should be looking at, so why am I? I dont know, Im still quite baffled about whys of it all.
Just knowing the truth, and being sensitive to truth versus lie, is a huge step. If everyone could take that step, all of this would stop tomorrow. Because lies that are exposed to light just shrivel up and die.
You might think well a certain event happened years ago, and just now am I finding out the truth about it. Why did it take so long? First of all, why would you question anything you were told by 'authorities' unless you knew to do so? No one questions people they are taught to trust.
I can guarantee you, it won't happen to you again. I can tell by reading your posts that you won't easily be fooled again. And, that is a huge progress. Truth seekers slow them down and make their job all that much harder. We all benefit with every person added to a dedication to truth.
That particular event, I knew the first day what was going on. I spent the next week studying the architecture of the buildings, studying controlled demolition, studying the characteristics of fire and the temperature at which steel melts, studying the news (when something big happens the truth always leaks out in the first 48 hours or so because they are reporting it around the clock and the reporters can just throw it out there uncensored). There are good people in the news who do their best to slip things out, to tell the truth. But after about three days, we settle into the official story told by all. So I always watch the news around the clock during such a time, tape it, etc. Now we have people taping it and throwing it up on youtube for posterity, so they are hoisted on their own lies. But I saw all of that in real time because I was looking for it. So the first week, I worked hard to confirm what I knew the first day.
It's a different way of thinking. It's a different way of looking at the world. And, it has made me feel so much closer to Jesus because he dealt with it head on. He called them vipers, den of thieves! What is going on now has always gone on--tyranny and thieves and vipers are as old as the hills. The difference today is not the bad, it is the good. That is what most miss--the good that we have today, the rights, the freedom, the charity--all of that is what is new. And, that comes directly out of the New Testament.
But, the second piece of it is what is so hard. It takes two people to tell a lie--one to tell it and the other to believe it. So we have to look at ourselves and see what is in ourselves that made a deal with the devil look attractive. Why were we willing to buy the lie. We benefitted somehow from the lie or we would have paid more attention to those nagging doubts--because everyone has a conscience. And, we were willing to benefit at another's expense. We were willing to be detached. We were willing to give in to fear. That's probably the biggest reason most people are not receptive. If they face the truth, they might have to do something about it.
One thing about the devil, he always throws the truth in somewhere amidst the lies. It's almost as if he's required to do so. But, then, he can say to himself and to God--they had no excuse, they did it to themselves. It really is a spiritual battle, fought every day. This is where the rubber meets the road.
9Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
10Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. --Job 1
It's much more affective to save one from drowing, when you yourself are not in the water they're drowning in. If we are to be the light of the world, it would then be most effective if we not focus on the darkness there within.
When Jesus was prophesying of what was coming to Israel shortly after he left, his message was "you will hear rumors, you will see changes . . .major events are going to take place all around you . . .but don't get caught up in the noise of it all. Stay tuned to the "sound" of my voice.
As eagles, we can bring meat to others when they are molting . .that's our purpose as we are hovering over the hurting . .but if we get bound up in the despair "with" them, we will be as entangled in the earthly matters as much as the next person and no longer having an affect on anyone. God has lifted us up to high places where flight is required. And I think much of what "I" am to do is, when I do see despair . . .love on those going through it, and "call out" the things in the spirit that need to manifest in the flesh.
We have the power to loose and to bind. This isn't just about casting out a demon . . .this is about taking the kingdom through the tools that have been provided. And they are not mind tools, emotion tools or any kind of carnal/natural thing, they are spirit . . . bring liberty to the captive . . .pray over them as a king would speak over his nation. I've heard you speak . . .you have the language of one who flies . .that is why there's been so much life that's come in the last day or two, a flyer has joined others and the Spirit rejoices when we fly in flocks . . .don't let the natural disasters, and the dark faith of the things around you clip your wings.
Blessings.
Quote from: NathanIt's much more affective to save one from drowing, when you yourself are not in the water they're drowning in. If we are to be the light of the world, it would then be most effective if we not focus on the darkness there within.
5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. --John 1
Look at that statement. The darkness does not comprehend the light--it doesn't understand it. So this is the first step: To teach the darkness to comprehend the light.
But, look, there is a second step, even if the darkness can be taught to understand the light, it must be taught to desire it:
19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. --John 3
If Jesus cannot teach us such things, who can?
Isn't this the function of a city on a hill?
I know what you are saying Nate , Molly and Kimmy
Jesus told us we are in the world but not of it .. . thats good enough for me :thumbsup:
Jhn 14:11 Believe me that I [am] in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Jhn 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believes on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Jhn 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Jhn 14:14 If you shall ask any thing in my name, I will do [it].
Jhn 14:15 If you love me, keep my commandments.
Jhn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Jhn 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it sees him not, neither knows him: but you know him; for he dwells with you, and shall be in you.
Jhn 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Jhn 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world sees me no more; but you see me: because I live, you shall live also.
Jhn 14:20 At that day you shall know that I [am] in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.
this is awesome , and when you hear what the Spirit is saying this speaks directly to you .. :HeartThrob:
[quote Look at that statement. The darkness does not comprehend the light--it doesn't understand it. So this is the first step: To teach the darkness to comprehend the light
[/quote]
Light = spirit
darkness = flesh
I'm not sure you "can" teach darkness light. You can drive darkness out with light . .. but I'm not sure you can get darkness to comprehend the light.
Quote from: Molly on December 22, 2008, 06:31:30 AM
Quote from: NathanIt's much more affective to save one from drowing, when you yourself are not in the water they're drowning in. If we are to be the light of the world, it would then be most effective if we not focus on the darkness there within.
5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
--John 1
Look at that statement. The darkness does not comprehend the light--it doesn't understand it. So this is the first step: To teach the darkness to comprehend the light.
But, look, there is a second step, even if the darkness can be taught to understand the light, it must be taught to desire it:
19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
--John 3
If Jesus cannot teach us such things, who can?
Isn't this the function of a city on a hill?
For me, the teaching is for my spirit to teach my head what submission is all about. But when Christ brings the clarity, for me again, it's not so much that he's teaching "anything" but he's "revealing" and "planting" life in my spirit, which then (broken record time) conceives this seed into my mind, which then becomes impregnated because my mind submitted to my spirit as it "moved' over the face (identity) of my deep and in time, understanding is birthed and fruit manifests . . but it's by way of revelation through relationship . . . :soap:
Quote from: Nathan on December 22, 2008, 06:52:31 AM
[quote Look at that statement. The darkness does not comprehend the light--it doesn't understand it. So this is the first step: To teach the darkness to comprehend the light
Light = spirit
darkness = flesh
I'm not sure you "can" teach darkness light. You can drive darkness out with light . .. but I'm not sure you can get darkness to comprehend the light.
But if we all start in darkness--some will comprehend. So he sends out his teachers and says to them move through every town spreading the light. If some don't comprehend it after you have done that, move on--wipe the dust from your feet.
So the idea is that some will be called out of the darkness into his marvelous light.
And, we have to believe--it will be enough to make a difference.
Isaiah 9:2
The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.
"I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom." (Dan 7:21-22) To say because of your wickedness the rain will not fall in this or that nation except according to my word and the heaven is closed for 3 1/2 years, to give a word that works such that none can gainsay or resist, to be so with God no army can arrest you or prevent you from ministering healing and deliverance to humanity, this does violence to carnal orders but brings in the peace of God. How do we get there?
We are to, "Watch and pray always, that ye may be counted worthy to escape the time coming upon the earth, and to stand before the son of man." Can a gang of soldiers still get me if someone higher up the chain of command despises my Jesus? or, am I in a place now where I could say to them as they arrive to seize me, "If I am a man of God, let fire come forth from the Lord and consume you!" It is not weapons of carnal warfare that will enforce the kingdom of God, but what comes from the annointing upon the transformed human that supercedes what is born of Adam. O, to know the path on into this incorruptible life that has dawned within us in the name of Jesus! Who is teaching such things? Please, tell me what they say.
The Light is Christ.again Two fold,
He walked as LIGHT(TRUE LIFE ,understanding) in the Darkness of the Understanding of His country folk, it twas HIM they couldnt comprehend.
He also Dwells Within , hid behind the veil , and the Darkness of Soul( Heart and Mind) Understand it NOT, Tis when the veil Is Torn , Darkness is Illuminated( I count it Dross) , Just Like Paul who Eyes were in Darkness,Christ is The LIGHT in us which iluminates The darkness of the soul. :icon_flower:
GASP . . . .NNNNEEEEED . ..TTTO . . .CCCOOMME . . . .GASP . . .UUUPPP . . .FOR . . . AIR!!!!!
I mean . . .uh . . . . :goodpost: Yeah . .that's what I "meant" to say!!
Quote from: KimBut one thing changed Molly and I dont bring up "the devil" or "Satan" or look for one behind every tree, but for the first time (in relation to this Agenda) He became very real in the world to me, not just in any dispicable act in itself but in a much broader scale.
Yes! He's real and hard at work every day. He's very good at what he does. It's a wonder things aren't worse than they are.
QuoteSo why on earth was I taken from my blissful studies of the blessed mysteries of God and those spiritual treasures I basked in daily to behold THESE THINGS?
I think because, as the man says, faith without works is dead. We are meant to implement it in the real world. Salt. He's made us salt. Salt that loses its saltiness is good for nothing except to be trodden on in the streets. How can anything change if his people are dying for lack of knowledge?
I read somewhere that every phone call is counted for 100 phone calls, and every letter for 1000 letters. In other words, they know that if someone is willing to take the time to write a letter, there are 1000 people out there who are that upset.
Small numbers can change things. Because small numbers are indicative of a much larger base.
Everyone needs to pick one thing and do it. For instance, all the states are changing over to black box voting. Well, if there was ever a no brainer, that is one. Just press this button and the machine will count the votes. It's not who votes that count, it's who counts the votes, and who programs the machine. We need to return to little old ladies counting the votes by hand in a public forum with lots of witnesses. Preservation of freedom takes time, and effort, and dedication. There's a thousand little things like that where a small effort makes a huge difference.
Yes, pray for our leaders--but make them show their birth certificates, so that we know that our military is not reporting to a foreign national.
PS Have you read about Noam Chomsky's 'manufactured consent'? Because that is exactly what you are describing.
NOW you ask . . .I gotta go home . . my day here is over . . .I have ONE DAY LEFT tomorrow and after that, I'm off until January 3rd . . .I will try to check in from home, but it's never as much as what I can do when I'm here. Right now, my daughter is waiting for me to go out to an expensive ice cream joint . . .yeah, it's 5 below out and she's wanting ice cream . . .but . . .whadya do? I like Ice cream!!!!
Not to worry, Genesis is "in" us and it'll pour out whenever we turn that faucet on. I do look forward to you getting off the ground a bit and come and play . . .perhaps tomorrow, perhaps in January, I'm told it's worth the wait.
I have just found this thread, Kim you have much Wisdom praise the Lord.
I really want to thank all of you that has posted, it has helped me and I am pretty sure many others. :thumbsup:
I am planning on reading it in its entirety, hopefully before the night is over.
I just wanted to encourage :HeartThrob:
Thank you Kim for the welcome, I am new here don't post much but do read here lots since I discovered the board.
I will have to finish tomorrow I keep reading and rereading so is taking me much longer than anticipated.
No use in reading for just words only, I need to soak this in.. :bgdance:
Anyway Thank You, Molly and others.
You both seem to be in unison with my thoughts also. Night Night. :cloud9:
Three days before 9/11 I saw one of the Cherubim, the one with the eagle face. Much could be said about this.
The day before 9/11, 9/10, 9/11 itself, and 9/12 I experienced a light and I was brought into a realm slightly higher than we are normaly in during those 3 days. It was brightest on 9/11 and on that day the voice of the Spirit said over and over and over many times: "We are not of the nations. We are not of the nations. We are not of the nations..."
I'm finding a call to come up higher. Not to be blind but to look into the glory. Fireinfolding, I have to go to bed. It's very late for me. I hope we can continue this. There are many things some of us not only see but that we are going through because of the manipulations of evil men. I wish I could talk more about it while sharing what I'm getting from God.
your brother, James Rohde
Quote from: Reformer"We are not of the nations. We are not of the nations. We are not of the nations..."
What does this mean?
Ep 2:5-7, 19...
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Col 1:12-13...
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: ("into the kingdom of the son of His love")
We were terrestial goyim "of the nations" but, now we are Celestial "true Jews."
Php 3:20-21...
20 For our "conversation" (lit., "realm") is in heaven (lit., "the heavens"); from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
wow. But what meaning does it have to you that you were being told that at that particular time?
Hi ...........
good warnings sis , it looks like rough times are ahead ,
how soon and how severe is something we should at least be considering right now,
while you can :thumbsup: God bless
Hi sis ,
I personally dont look for it to get any better any time soon ,
just wax worse and worse , many vehicle manfactures are going down one by one , things are going to get gritty and hard , going into survival mode even :mshock:
just basic needs will become a thing of the past , Till the new world order will begin to rise up in power , it has been hidden for along time now [ behind the scenes ], but we will see it soon enough I am sure of it
God is allowing this for a greater purpose I believe like Job getting in a position my the skin of his teeth how HUMBLING is that !!
All my inward friends abhorred me: and they whom I loved are turned against me.
Job 19:20 My bone cleaves to my skin and to my flesh, and I am escaped with the skin of my teeth.