How to live a good moral christian life

[Paul Hazelwood]

Everyone who is not on drugs ignores the problem--it is not their problem, after all.  This includes all the Christian churches because if the Christian churches made this their problem, it would stop overnight.

I don't ignore it,  but I'm interested in your theory on how the churches could stop this overnight, explain.

[Molly]

Everyone who is not on drugs ignores the problem--it is not their problem, after all.  This includes all the Christian churches because if the Christian churches made this their problem, it would stop overnight.

I don't ignore it,  but I'm interested in your theory on how the churches could stop this overnight, explain.

The church is God's army on earth.

God requires us to worship him in spirit and truth.

If we, as Christians, are swallowing lie after lie, and looking the other way, nothing will change.

Evil wins when good men do nothing.

Not one of our candidates mentioned drugs, did they?

Nothing but garbage--hope change hope hope hope--,mavricky mavericks.

Hope is as worthless as the currency it is written on, empty lies.

When this people stands up and demands the truth, and demands that their God be worshipped in spirit and truth--yes things will change overnight.

No liars and thieves allowed in our government.

There are good men, but they are few and far between, and they are regularly crucified.

[Paul Hazelwood]

I personally couldn't care less about the political arena because that is one other problem,  people think the government can solve the moral state of man.

There is no perfect man, so there can be no perfect moral man in political office in the first place. 

Hope is not worthless, because this war we wage is not about flesh and blood, it is not about laws and useless wars on drugs.   I used drugs because my spirit was empty,  no law and no person fixed me,  God fixed me in his time.  When he presented me with the light, I was able to choose.  I did choose many times to ignore the light, I finally chose to accept the light when my life was so dark and useless I had no where else to turn.

Messages that thats just how I was supposed to be kept me in darkness.  Messages about how bad and pathetic I was kept me in darkness.  It indeed was a glimpse of hope that could not be proven to me that saved me from eartly destruction, but my spirit was not yet healed.

There is no promise in the bible of this utopian earthly life, so I do not seek something that is not promised.

The message is about the hope beyond this life, and hope is not useless or the bible would not talk about how great it is to hope for the unseen.

People can have their dim bulbs of light in politics,  its one of the more useless illuminations.

[Molly]

well, that's the typical Christian response, one of total passivity--God will take care of it for me--and self indulgence.  I have been guilty of the same, mind you, which is how I know it so well.

I'm glad God saved you, but thousands of our children are not so lucky.

They need men of God to save them.   They are waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God.  Thousands of them die waiting.

And, yes, there is a promise in the Bible of this utopian earthly life, if only one would read it.




34As you watched, a stone was cut from a mountain--but not by human hands. The stone struck the feet, completely shattering the iron and clay. 35Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed and blown away without a trace, like husks of wheat at threshing time. But the stone became a tremendous mountain that covered the entire earth.

--Daniel 2


1 Peter 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.



2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

--Rev 21

[Paul Hazelwood]

well, that's the typical Christian response, one of total passivity--God will take care of it for me--and self indulgence.  I have been guilty of the same, mind you, which is how I know it so well.

Never said God did it for me, I said I ignored the light many times and it was not the "typical" answers to the drug problem that helped me.

Total passivity!!!!  LOL,  Nope, sorry, you have missed the threads where I write against the fuzzy wuzzy gospel that my friend has grasped on to.  He is in the same boat I once was, and I do not give up on him, and encourage him and speak against the things that I believe keep him in darkness.

I'm glad God saved you, but thousands of our children are not so lucky.
They need men of God to save them.   They are waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God.  Thousands of them die waiting.

Waiting for the great political leader to save them will kill more, so like I said, you can have your garbage politics, its worthless.

And, yes, there is a promise in the Bible of this utopian earthly life, if only one would read it.

Nope, if only people would stop scripture mining.


Mt 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Mt 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.


The spiritual life is the only place where peace will abound.

[Zeek]

Nope, if only people would stop scripture mining.


Mt 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Mt 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.


The spiritual life is the only place where peace will abound.

I agree. 

[Molly]

Waiting for the great political leader to save them will kill more, so like I said, you can have your garbage politics, its worthless.

I am not waiting for any great political leader.  I am waiting for the sons of God to wake up and become agents of Christ on this earth.   Christ himself was the greatest political leader who ever lived.

Nope, if only people would stop scripture mining.


Mt 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Mt 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.


The spiritual life is the only place where peace will abound.

Do you really think 'spiritual' has nothing to do with this earth?  Do you think that truth has nothing to do with this earth?  If truth cannot be found on this earth, then how could anyone speak it?   Everyone on earth is destined to speak lies for their entire life?

A spiritual war is being fought every day on this earth.

De- nile is a river in Egypt and we are told to come out of Egypt.

You don't expect to ever see Jesus on this earth again?  Is that it?

How can one be faithful and true if one supports lies and corruption?



11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

---Rev 19

[Paul Hazelwood]

I am not waiting for any great political leader.  I am waiting for the sons of God to wake up and become agents of Christ on this earth.   Christ himself was the greatest political leader who ever lived.

Mt 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Mt 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Ro 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Do you really think 'spiritual' has nothing to do with this earth?  Do you think that truth has nothing to do with this earth?  If truth cannot be found on this earth, then how could anyone speak it?   Everyone on earth is destined to speak lies for their entire life?

Lk 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

This is the implication that He will not. 

Ro 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,


I'm all for the promotion of good things for a better earth, but bitterness will come from believing in false hopes.


Want to plant a seed of hope,  find people near you and tell them of the hope that is in YOU, not the bitterness that no one is doing anything.

Mt 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye?


When the world comes crashing down and people can watch it in the understanding that it will all pass away and that we did our duty to promote the change in people spirits, then it will be understood why we try to change others.  It is not to promote a utopian earth that is not promised, it is to promote the integrity of spirit to one another.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].

How can one be faithful and true if one supports lies and corruption?

True, the lie that God promises the earth can be a utopia is one of them I reject, thanks

[Molly]

Ro 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,


I'm all for the promotion of good things for a better earth, but bitterness will come from believing in false hopes.

You didn't finish that scripture--


in hope,

21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Ro 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,


I'm all for the promotion of good things for a better earth, but bitterness will come from believing in false hopes.

You didn't finish that scripture--


in hope,

21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Didn't need to finish it for the point it applies to because the rest of it does not contradict what I am saying.   But the fact that you brought it up points out something.   "SHALL be"

That means it will happen.  If you are pointing this out to promote the possibility of utopian physical earth, then you must stop worrying, because thats a promise it will happen.

But, thats not where the hope and promise lies,  because there would be no reason for this heaven and earth to pass away.


Mt 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

[Molly]

Ro 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,


I'm all for the promotion of good things for a better earth, but bitterness will come from believing in false hopes.

You didn't finish that scripture--


in hope,

21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Didn't need to finish it for the point it applies to because the rest of it does not contradict what I am saying.   But the fact that you brought it up points out something.   "SHALL be"

That means it will happen.  If you are pointing this out to promote the possibility of utopian physical earth, then you must stop worrying, because thats a promise it will happen.

But, thats not where the hope and promise lies,  because there would be no reason for this heaven and earth to pass away.


Mt 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Yes, it has to pass away because it is not his kingdom--remember?

And, you, are you a new creation in Christ?  Did your old self pass away?

Then you should want to step into the new heavens and the new earth, into the glorious liberty of the sons of God.

He knows the desires of our hearts because he put them there.

This is the great hope he's given us, --one which we have seen begin to be realized.  A young idea--liberty, justice,  and freedom for all.   Is it not our commission as agents of Christ to continue it and protect it?  And, how can we do that if we turn our backs and strain at gnats and swallow camels?


for the former things are passed away.

5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

--Rev 21

[Paul Hazelwood]

We have a difference of opinion on how that manifests Molly.

I believe it is the combination of the false teaching of salvation within Christianity and the influence of the delusion of altered states of consciousness that the people with in christianity has promoted that influences this misunderstanding. 

My thinking has changed, but not all of it, and I can accept Christ,  but I do not follow all his commandments.

Do you follow all his commandments Molly?   I could be guilty of being accusatory, but that is not my intent.  It is to get people to realize that we try to love Christ, but as Peter did, we deny him every day,  EVERYONE does.   

So when someone cries out that no one is doing anything, it is always someone who refuses to see the greater spiritual dilemma that man faces.

So indeed,  quit straining at the gnat of this fleeting physical earth.

[Nathan]

Could it be one point of view is looking at the fulfillment of Scriptures is to happen literally and the other view is that it's happening spiritually?

I've always been one to believe that you can't legislate spiritual truth . . . which to me means that regardless of who is in the white house, it's not going to advance or retard the plan of God for this nation, and for that matter, for the world. 

Romans 5:20
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

No matter how much darkness there is out there, it's never greater than the light that is also in our midst.  We just have to stop feeding the one and turn to the other and let the dead bury the dead.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Could it be one point of view is looking at the fulfillment of Scriptures is to happen literally and the other view is that it's happening spiritually?

I've always been one to believe that you can't legislate spiritual truth . . . which to me means that regardless of who is in the white house, it's not going to advance or retard the plan of God for this nation, and for that matter, for the world. 

Romans 5:20
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

No matter how much darkness there is out there, it's never greater than the light that is also in our midst.  We just have to stop feeding the one and turn to the other and let the dead bury the dead.

I pretty much agree Nathan.

My next point is not to focus only on one issue, but to use it because it is an example in my life.  not going to go down the trail of this singular issue if others respond that way.

The point I try to make is a road I have been down.  I used to rail against abortion, alot, was very involved against it, not necessarily an unworthy cause, but what good did I do when I propped myself up pointing the finger at others for not doing enough, when I couldn't treat my wife the way I was supposed to in my own home.

There are people I worked with in that realm  that believed the greater cause was served so that these other things were worthy sacrifices.  I followed their lead and it was a road to spiritual destruction.

I know a single mother who I worked with on the issue, and she was hailed in church as this tenacious person who loved God so much.  Yet, all her children were in therapy due to her broken marriage and the neglect of her children while she faught aginst abortion.  She found the road to spiritual destruction.

I know married couples that appear to be great, working for the cause,  you will also find them in marriage counseling as the time they spend on this so called worthy cause has destroyed their relationship.  They found the road to spiritual destruction.

As I saw this happening around me I left the cause, and was hated for it, accused of forsaking God and I was just giving up and allowing Satan to take my place, all kinds of nasty stuff.  What they didn't realize is I was neglecting the spirits of my family and I did follow God as I saw the evil I was in the midst of.

Thats one thing that is very difficult is taking something religious people have assigned the word Godly to and seeing it for the evil it is.

Does this mean we overlook abortion?  No,  but  later that single mother had to deal with her own daughter getting pregnant and getting an abortion.  Why, because she was led to believe that the physical world around her can actually be cured by what we do.  It's not meant to be cured, it is meant to pass away.  It is meant to be a training ground.

"The inhabitants of the earth will learn righteousness"

I can go on, but the problem is the misplaced duty we think we have to correct all the physical things in the earth.

Yes, love one another, be kind and share the hope that is within us, not the hope made from the physical realm.

Judgment starts in the house of God.  Is that this physical earth, or is that us and that is the house where God resides?

[Nathan]

Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.  John 2:19

Everything is spiritual . . .I agree with you all the way.

[Craig]

Nope, if only people would stop scripture mining.


Mt 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Mt 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.


The spiritual life is the only place where peace will abound.

I agree. 

I agree.

[Molly]

It is to get people to realize that we try to love Christ, but as Peter did, we deny him every day,  EVERYONE does.

Acts 5:15
Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.

16There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

[Paul Hazelwood]

It is to get people to realize that we try to love Christ, but as Peter did, we deny him every day,  EVERYONE does.

Acts 5:15
Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.

16There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

Sick people get healed on earth, that does not invalidate a thing I have said.

You can be healed of cancer and be spiritually DEAD.


Ro 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.


You can do all kinds of things in Jesus name and be spiritually dead.

Mt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

[Craig]

The biggest issue is, there are some here who know you should not have any condemnation in Christ Jesus. They do not recognize it is not because there is no right or wrong, or that nobody sins. There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus because they walk after the Spirit and not after the things of the flesh. There is a right and a wrong way of doing things, that is why not all things are beneficial, and without recognizing right and wrong there is no repentance. Without repentance there is no change in a person's life. Moral subjectivity is not the answer to the freedom we have in Christ Jesus, it is grace and truth which is the freedom we have in Christ Jesus. 

[Nathan]

Then there are those that seem to twist things that weren't actually said.  They did not say that there is no right and wrong.  What they said was, the truly mature ones do see right and wrong, but choose not to point out the wrong because as they grow in Christ, the come to realize, everyone has wrong in them, including themselves . .so they choose to work out there "own" salvation and if they see wrong in others . . .if there is an invitation for advice, it's freely shared IN LOVE. . .if it's not, then they don't assume they are "the" authority by pointing out the wrong any way.

Any adolescent believer will be quick to slap the hand of a wrong-doer and use their never-ending knowledge (be it by natural reasoning rather than spiritual revelation) to justify their constant finger pointing.

If I am as mature as I think I am, then the true manifestation comes out by the way I respond to another who I deem to be in the wrong.  No matter how much I am convinced they are wrong . . .when I ignore the fact that I do not have authority over them and choose to point out the wrongs anyway, then I am no better than those who I perceive to be wrong.

Law is the knowledge of sin . . . (Romans 3) emphasizing what's missing . .or who is missing the mark is to live according to the law.  There is no freedom there no matter how much the carnal mind is convinced that it's all Biblical.  The true plumb line is when that which is uttered either brings life or death.  Some are very clever in how they use their words to point out how wrong everyone else is, but in most cases, it's little more than clanging noise of brass.

It is not I that said you can't sin, it was Paul . . .other than denying it's truth, there's no other explanation given by the accuser.  My entire point of view has always been, and will continue to be that if I can get my head out of the equasion and be led by my heart, life will abound.  Freedom will come, and Truth will manifest.  If there is a fire that God has started in you that I don't fully understand, I promise you I will not throw a bunch of Scriptures at you telling you that fire burns.  Instead, I will rejoice with you that God is manifesting his light in you so that all others who live in darkness around you will benefit from it's warmth and light.

Be influenced by the fear of sinning if you wish, but there's a whole other realm within your reach once you just lay self down and let God do with it as he so chooses.  I choose the liberty of Christ, the easy yoke he's offered, the light burden he gives in return for simply believing "in" him.  And yes, there is NO condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.  Another sign of who's in and who's not.

[Craig]

Then there are those that seem to twist things that weren't actually said.

There is no twisting going on on my end. Plenty on yours and others.

This person we're responding to has been badly scarred by the things of her mind and the best you can do is stomp all over someone elses attempt to comfort her?

Where was I addressing you or anyone else? I trampled over nobody else's attempt to comfort her. That is your insecurity and that is your fear.

GOD is not about making you afraid... MEN, in their CARNAL WRECKLESSNESS and Corrupted THEOLOGY... seek to instill FEAR in their readers...

We find out later WillieH was talking about me. Where did I say God is making you afraid? I didn't, where do I instill fear in their readers? I didn't.

Any adolescent believer will be quick to slap the hand of a wrong-doer and use their never-ending knowledge (be it by natural reasoning rather than spiritual revelation) to justify their constant finger pointing.

I manipulated nothing. Pointing out wrong is what you did when you gave your big expose against me. A reply you were reprimanded for.

I spoke in general terms, there is right and there is a wrong. I did not nullify or excuse Love from this equation. Love overcomes all of this. Though you did not want to see this and neither do a few others.

There is no right and wrong, only love.

That is not what Scripture says, nor is this the Spirit speaking. There is a right and wrong, and there is love. Love is still the greatest but it does not rejoice in evil.

1 Corinthians 13:6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

When a child does wrong before a loving father, he is disciplined. That doesn't mean his love changes for his son (a wicked father would).

So it is you who has the problem. It is you who is scared of any other message but your own. It is you who is scared not to be heard. It is you who insults others both public and in private. It is you who initiated this misunderstanding by your reply and it was you who was reprimanded for your insecurity because of it. You do not know forgiveness, and therefore you cannot know what it means to love.

1 John 2:9
Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble.

You stumbled, my reply is biblical sound and cannot be refuted except by opinions of others without foundation.

Then there are those who reject that there is anything right to do and if you fit in that category, read closely.

1 John 2:29 If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him.

1 John 3:10
This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

I rest this case. You reject right and wrong, you are not a child of God. You do not love your brother, you are not a child of God. Period. No way around it, there are some of you in this forum who serve Hedone, not the Father God and since you do not know what is wrong to repent of it you will be disciplined acordingly. If you are scared, then you are not yet perfect.

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

Surprising how people always forget to post the second part of that verse.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Nathan,

One of the responces I got when talking about my friends drug habits and how that is hurting his wife is that God is doing it and thats just the way it is.  That whatever will be will be till God decides otherwise.  The implication is that God is tempting him, when scripture states God will not do that but provide the escape.

The way of escape is just whatever will be will be?   

The implication was that my friend was doing nothing wrong.   I see someone saying "there is no right and wrong only Love"

ok, I know we are to love one another, but the implication of this feel good message is that if anything makes you feel bad then it is not of God,  that is ridiculous.

My friend has come close to killing his wife through neglect because of medical problems she has.  My friend states full well he knows he is aware of what he is doing and continues without trying because it makes him feel bad to try not to do it and if God didn't want him to do it, he would be prevented.  It's ridiculous to sit around and approve of that message.  That is not the message of scripture.

No right or wrong only love?  Maybe I am not to come down on my friend with a message of hate and condemnation, but I refuse to see in scripture that I am not to try to get my friend to see the scriptural nature of his plight especially when he claims to believe.

Of course I must look at myself as well and look to myself to see the nature in which I want to correct my friend.  But there are verses telling us to show one another the error of our ways.   Christianity teaches primarily that once you say your saved, then your no longer subject to the same judgment as the heathens in thw world and since God is going to cast away everyone that does not listen, they are taught to treat others accordingly.

So we have both side of the message that are taken to the extreme, when the bible says moderation in all things. 

Love sometimes creates the worst feeling we can ever imagine as the old ways are ripped from us, but we cannot sit back and just let things be when we are shown something is amiss.

I do not hate my friend, I do not rail on and on in condemnation to my friend, but I do not allow his comments that there is nothing he can do to stand without an admonishment to point out that he should try and keep trying no matter how futile or uncontrollable it seems and that,  yes,  God can work through with him and his addictions.   

But just to smile at my friend and say, go ahead, its alright, that is not love.

[Molly]

Love sometimes creates the worst feeling we can ever imagine as the old ways are ripped from us, but we cannot sit back and just let things be when we are shown something is amiss.

I thought that's what I've been saying...

[Craig]

But just to smile at my friend and say, go ahead, its alright, that is not love.

That is right

[Paul Hazelwood]

Love sometimes creates the worst feeling we can ever imagine as the old ways are ripped from us, but we cannot sit back and just let things be when we are shown something is amiss.

I thought that's what I've been saying...

If I have misunderstood you then I apologize.  What I am talking about is the spiritual nature of things.   I also see the extremes.  I will not say abortion is ever right, but I will not forgo the spiritual things in my life to try to stop it.

I want my friend to stop using drugs, but not at the expense of his spirituality by stopping because he fears burning in hell forever.

Jesus admonished the pharasees,  he was kind to the prostitute, however he did not leave the prostitute with a mesage of do as thou will.   The message concerning the prostitute I see is as follows.

The pharasees are like the abortion right activists always pointing fingers at the baby killers wanting the law changed and casting the message of hatred at anyone who does not agree with everything they do.

Jesus came to show us that trying to correct the physical state on the earth through law is not how to go about it, but as we see with the prostitute he showed her the spirit and gave her light before telling her the responsibility she now has.

I think maybe where I misunderstood you molly is when you say "you" are waiting for someone else to do something.   We are never told to wait on anyone,  we are to do and not become bitter because things are not progressing how we like. 

I also do not believe we are to operate in a fashion towards others for things that we are not promised will happen.  A lot of things can be wrongly said to people when you think they can all make this earth a utopia and you expect them to do it.   It is the spirit we should be seeking to share.