To my own personal "hell" and back

[DeeDee]

Hello all my dears that I have come to love so much  :girlheart:

Everyone here is truly a blessing really. Anyhow thought I would share something with all of you and maybe it will help a few people. As few of you already know I have been in my own personal "hell" for the last few months. Pure 24/7 torture, where all I could manage to do all day was worry and sweat and get anxiety and panic attacks. I could'nt eat, I could'nt sleep (that part I am very happy to say I am coming out of now since joining this tentmaker website). I was in the state of mind that I felt that I don't care if I die right on the spot because it would'nt make any difference. I was so sure I was going to eternal hell fire. All because of sins I felt God would'nt forgive me for a second time and of course because of the unpardonable sin (which I am dealing with now thanks to support from members of this site - not 100% better yet but coping). I have had awful blasphemous thoughts for weeks aswell and I hated it, despised it. No where online could I find any help. Normal christian websites all had something different to say about what they consider unpardonable and how many times God forgives a person for other sins. I felt empty, like I had lost everything in my life - everything I held so very dear to my heart. Even now I admit I still feel a bit damned but I feel so much better. It helps so much to know that others think of Our Lord the way I have always pictured him to be. Pure Pure Love. So to all the newcomers, stick around there is much to learn here. Plus if anyone needs any help or support or just someone to talk to - I understand fully and I am here for all of you.

Your in Christ
Dee

[WhiteWings]

DD,

I think you will  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: this site: http://bible-truths.com/
I'm 99% sure it will make you feel better every page you read.

If you start reading the Lake of Fire we won't see you for a few weeks  :thumbdown: 
But when you return you will feel  :thumbsup:


And if you get in the mood for some mud fight scroll down on the page and read the e-mails.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Hi DD,

that was one of my frustrations when I still attended an organized church.  The ideas that I had that gave me freedom were scoffed at and questions regaurding problems I had not yet worked out were met with "I'll get back to you" "I'll pray for you"  "Just have faith". When you would point out a blatent contradiction in their treachings not out of confrontation but out of a desire to learn, they become strangely silent and distant.

The truth is DD,  I have found even here not everyone has all the answers and the whole point is that it is tough to seek Gods truth because as we are learning we can feel very isolated and lonely and it is hard to continue even while feeling that way.

It is ok that we feel frustrated and seek God to calm that,  I have a friend that I have to reliquish my emotional bond to because as much as I want him to hear the greatness of God, as much as he is rejecting it,  I have to remember that God works all things and I have to have faith the God has not made a mistake by creating my friend to walk this earth and do what he does.

Your path will teach you the truths he needs you to know.

[WhiteWings]

All because of sins I felt God would'nt forgive me for a second time and of course because of the unpardonable sin (which I am dealing with now thanks to support from members of this site

Only 2 times? Don't worry!

Read what our #1 teacher had to say about that!

Matthew 18:21-22  Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?  Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

DD,

If God had two limitations they would be:
- He can't control His own love. => It pushes away His anger.
- He can't stop looking for reasons to forgive. => Do you think He can't find what He is looking for.....?

[DeeDee]

Ya right Tony  :laughing7: It would be amazing if I only sinned twice. It in fact would'nt be possible!

I meant more in the lines of the way people teach that the bible says you can only be saved once - repent of all your sins and ask G_d to save you in the name of Jesus Christ.

Then if you fall away from that you can't go back and ask for forgiveness. They teach you will lose your salvation.

Dee

[WhiteWings]

It would be amazing if I only sinned twice. It in fact would'nt be possible!

Jesus wasn't showing of His math skills in that verse. It was the only verse where things mean forever  :laughing7:
He just means to say: keep looking for ways to forgive. IMHO.


Fall back....
I always found that a funny concept.
Same as once saved always saved.

I look at it this way and for me it totally debunks the concepts.

Person-A: Atheist but a good guy. Could have earned lots of money in west as a brain churgin  but choose $100/month to work in Africa as doctor.
Person-B: Hardcore sinner that by plain luck asked forgiveness 1 second before he dies.
Person-C: Christian. Totally sinless and almost the equal to Jesus. Makes a mistake near death and has no more time to repent.
Person-D: Christian. Keeps falling back and repenting. The story of his/her life
Person-E: Perfect Christian. Gods loves him and he is saved. At the age of 20 he gets 'touched' by satan and becomes everything bad you can imagine.

Who go to Heaven (instantly)
Person-B => Heaven requires perfect timing
and
Person-E => once saved always saved
Very logical. Or not....?

[Paul Hazelwood]

Typical response, Person E was not saved in the first place.

[WhiteWings]

Person-E was saved. Once saved always saved.

Not my claim BTW. Just my way to show how insane such teachings are.

And, Paul, i do understand why you are saying.
But what does 'once saved always saved mean"
If you are saved you are stay saved.
If you get unsaved you where not saved.
So basicly God made a mistake and accidently saved you and undid His mistake lateron.
I wonder how all those scholars can overlook contradictions of this magnitude...



Must be "Once saved aion saved"  :laughing7:

[Paul Hazelwood]

I understand that your not offering this as your belief WW.

The concept of once saved always saved does not offer security because if you do something that the ones who preach that do not like, then, you were not saved in the first place no matter if you "said" you were saved or not.   I grew up in that system of teaching.

Over the years I have found that there is no real security at all in any religious system that fathoms the possibility of an eternal separation from God. 

[DeeDee]

Over the years I have found that there is no real security at all in any religious system that fathoms the possibility of an eternal separation from God. 

:thumbsup: Very good answer.

Just a bit on an update. I feel alot better these days. There are still moments of doubt (where I feel I am ganna fry for eternity) but those pass. LOL the irony is I would feel so much better if not 100% better if it were'nt for that darn 'unparnonable sin' - then again we all need something to keep us thinking and keep us searching.

Blessings
DeeDee

[Craig]

Over the years I have found that there is no real security at all in any religious system that fathoms the possibility of an eternal separation from God. 

:thumbsup: Very good answer.

Just a bit on an update. I feel alot better these days. There are still moments of doubt (where I feel I am ganna fry for eternity) but those pass. LOL the irony is I would feel so much better if not 100% better if it were'nt for that darn 'unparnonable sin' - then again we all need something to keep us thinking and keep us searching.

Blessings
DeeDee

By Jesus's words the unpardonable sin is only unpardonable in this age and the age to come, but there still remains the End of the Ages, which He is the consummation of the Ages. Every sin is forgivable, but certain sins remain unforgivable only for a limited duration so that God's will can be done. This is difficult to understand, but Israel committed the unforgivable sin, and as a result, all mankind is saved.

Romans 11:11-12, 25-32
11Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!
25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
   "The deliverer will come from Zion;
      he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27And this is my covenant with them
    when I take away their sins."
28As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. 32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

[martincisneros]

It's not hard to stay completely out of sin once your mind has been renewed with the Word of God and your flesh has been retrained to respond to the Word and the Spirit.  But most people need about 20 years of giving the Word and nothing but the Word all of their free time.  You'll blow it more than half a dozen times in that time period that it takes to get over the flesh. 

And then after even that, you've still got to watch yourself. 

Wind up forgetting you gave your word to someone about something, or while trying to keep your word to someone about something you're getting aggrivated by 50 things along the way that are trying to make a liar out of you (in the way that your emotions might register and process the distractions and competitions for your time), or in some way you lacked the gentleness with someone that you could have had.  Or you became your own God for a few minutes with worrying about something, thinking "what am I going to do?"  Life is about doing all you can to bring Him thanks whether from yourself or in the thankfulness you promote in others and then it's keeping every single care cast upon Him before, during, and after whatever comes along.

Then if you fall away from that you can't go back and ask for forgiveness. They teach you will lose your salvation.

If that's what they teach, then that was a church filled from the pulpit to the very back wall with a bunch of people that were going to burn in a never ending Hell, by their estimation, if they were 100% honest about having lost it with their spouse or kids on the way to Church, having missed a tithe on something nice that someone did for them, if they didn't this and didn't that, besides all of the stuff we know that they did do in their hearts while watching television, being slow to change the channel when someone's clothes fell to the floor, etc.

[martincisneros]

He said children of God have a civil war going on inside them between the flesh and the spirit. And if you don't have that war going on, you're not a child of God...

From now on, let no one trouble me. For I bare in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus. Galatians 6:17

There is rest that we can have from all of our enemies in this life.  The Bible says that Israel had it after they'd taken absolutely all of the land that God had promised them (Joshua 21:43-45).  It was short lived rest for them because they got into idolatry, did the very thing that God said not to do in Deuteronomy 8 with forgetting Who made them wealthy beyond the dreams of avarice, started getting unequally yoked together with unbelievers, etc.  But He will make you lie down in green pastures, beside still waters, etc.

(Psalm 23 always comes after Psalm 22 in a believer's life.  If Psalm 23 hasn't come yet, then either you're not at Psalm 22, and have settled for something other than Psalm 22 because of your own carnal thinking or the carnal thinking of the religion that surrounds you, or your Psalm 22 hasn't ended yet.  Isaiah 54 should always come after your Isaiah 53.  And because of Isaiah 54, Psalm 112, and countless other passages, if anyone tries to say that the house that a believer has is too big that they've genuinely received from God through laying down their lives for others, then dismiss it as the Judas Iscariot spirit that claims to wish it sold in the behalf of the poor so that they can do what they wish with it.)

Where a lot of churches screw each other around is by implying that that's where everyone who becomes a believer is supposed to start and that they're supposed to be maintaining a level that they've never yet inherited the substance of, and that if they don't, then they're all going to Hell in that Church, yada, yada... All of the promises of God that relate to this life for a believer are either contended for (1Timothy 6:12) or they're forfeited, but that has nothing to do with ultimate destiny, whether or not Christ is the ransom for all men, etc. 

For the joy set before me, I've endured certain crosses, but I don't expect to always follow the example of a crucified life, although that's heresy in many quarters for me to say that.  We're supposed to follow the example that Jesus left to us and not to follow the example of a crucifix that someone has on their neck that they've made an idol out of.  Life in Christ isn't about crucifixion.  It's about taking up your cross and walking the few miles of your life that you're supposed to walk with it, and then death is supposed to bow before you in every single area of your life.  Life isn't death. 

Life is a death that leads somewhere, even in this life.  I'm to the "It is finished!!" stage and half a second away from breathing the last of what I lived previously.  But I've got quite the tale that I could tell of a beating with a Roman cat of nine tails until they felt they were done, a horrible crown of thorns, nails through the most feeling nerves of my body, and being lifted up in front of others totally naked and mocked by both those that were dying with me and the religious crowd that wanted to scream their "if thou be the Son of God, come down from there" gibberish -- together with -- the ones that Jesus never faced that I've had to face -- the ones that have wanted to say that I'm not crucified with Christ because it wasn't with their particular brand of nails, their patented crown of thorns maker, and the type of hammer and cross that they believe that I should have been on far longer than I have been with far more agony in the ways that they think that my agony should have been suffered in order to be valid, etc.

[DeeDee]

One question; Did your situation come on suddenly, like out of the blue?

Yes and no. Always felt like I done something I should'nt have, then I learnt about the unpardonable sin, then I knew what it was. Then I began to panic and obsess in a sense. Then I began to do it more (in my mind and once verbally in explanation). Long complicated story. My feelings of being "damned" come and go. I am dealing tho. And Brian I honestly hope you are dealing with your concerns 2.

Godbless you all

[DeeDee]

I'm doing Ok. Still shaky at times. Especially in the morning for some reason. Last night was kind of a bad one, which is too bad since we had a special worship service and pot luck, and it put a real damper on things. Lets keep each other in prayer   

Brian

Yes, evenings and mornings are the worst. Evenings because you are trying to relax and settle down and mornings because you actually got sleep and then you wake up and it hits you. Will definately keep you in my prayers brother.

[DeeDee]

Guess what people. I am back from "Hell". Still have the jet lag but ALL in ALL (see the humour  :laughing7:) I am waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beta.

Hugs

DeeDee