How to live a good moral christian life

[DeeDee]

Hi again all  :girlheart:

Since I am still very new to all this and lots of you have been living "The Good Christian Life" for a while now (not that I never believed in God Almighty and Lord Jesus Christ - just never really lived as best I could), I thought you could give your thoughts and outlines (supported biblically of course) of how to live the way God wants us to. Things like should we give up television or sport or music.

Looking forward to all your answers

Dee

[pneuma]

Hi again all  :girlheart:

Since I am still very new to all this and lots of you have been living "The Good Christian Life" for a while now (not that I never believed in God Almighty and Lord Jesus Christ - just never really lived as best I could), I thought you could give your thoughts and outlines (supported biblically of course) of how to live the way God wants us to. Things like should we give up television or sport or music.

Looking forward to all your answers

Dee

Dee no one can answer that question to everyones satisfaction, I'll only say whatever the Lord tells YOU to do do it, don't worry about what others are doing or thier opinion on what you should be doing.

If the Lord don't tell you to do anything don't do anything,just wait on Him.

[Kimberlaina]

Dee,

Your post made me think of an essay I read a while back about what the Bible has to say about lifestyle rules.  Of course I can't find the essay now that I need it, but I found another essay that makes a similar point:

"One kind of literature that you do not find [in the Bible] is an architectural manual or rulebook telling us how to play the game called Christianity.  If we construe Christianity as a rulebook then God gave us the wrong book!"  (Allan McNicol in "Living Under the Word.") 

I like this quote because it parallels Scripture:

"Everything is permissible"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"—but not everything is constructive. (1 Corinthians 10:23)

The bottom line is, I agree with pneuma -- these things are a matter of prayer and discernment.

[DeeDee]

Thanks again to all.

I just get so scared I am doing something wrong. I have not lived the most moral life. Even now I still have issues. I am at the point that I worry about everything I do and say. Because I am so scared of slipping I do often. I know God loves us all, I just want to do right by Him.

I look at people around me that are'nt exactly the spokes people for Christian Moral Life. I get so sad. I am quite the same as them. I hope the Lord will bare with me long enough for me to start getting it right.

Blessing to you all
Dee

[Ches]

Thanks again to all.

I just get so scared I am doing something wrong. I have not lived the most moral life. Even now I still have issues. I am at the point that I worry about everything I do and say. Because I am so scared of slipping I do often. I know God loves us all, I just want to do right by Him.

I look at people around me that are'nt exactly the spokes people for Christian Moral Life. I get so sad. I am quite the same as them. I hope the Lord will bare with me long enough for me to start getting it right.

Blessing to you all
Dee

Dee Dee, 

I can tell you this.  Your intentions are good, but they won't get you anywhere.  Let's flip your very good question this way.  Would it be better to "live a christian life"? Or to "live life in Christ?" Think about for a moment.  You see, it all starts with God.  He's the one who must reveal to you (if its His will from the beginning) how much He ALREADY loves you.  Many people try to live a "christian moral life", and can't get there because living a "christian moral life" is man attempting to EARN God's love through human effort via religion.  Whereas "life in Christ" is man LIVING in the reality of God's love.  This "Life in Christ" is accomplished through GOD'S efforts.   Do you see the difference?

We read in 1 John 4:19 

19 We love because he first loved us.

Unless God puts it on your heart that your efforts to EARN His love are distracting you from His purpose and clouding your intentions to do right by Him, you won't be able to "get it".  However, once He reveals who He is in Christ, then you get to EXPERIENCE His great love.  It all starts with Him.  My suggestion, for all it's worth (which is to say "not much"), is to ask Him in prayer that, if it be His will.  God reveal to you how much He loves you.  Him doing that revelation will sow the seed for you the bear His fruit of moral living.  Sure, you'll struggle, but it's part of learning.   

In a nutshell.  NONE OF US can live Godly by OUR human understanding, only by God's Holy Spirit can this be done.  Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 2:14

14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

May God reveal His love for you as today progresses.

Ches

[willieH]

willieH: Hi DeeDee... :hithere:

Great name!  :ok:  DeeDee is my (33yr old) daughter's nickname!   :HeartThrob:  :laughing7:

Thanks again to all.

I just get so scared I am doing something wrong. I have not lived the most moral life. Even now I still have issues. I am at the point that I worry about everything I do and say. Because I am so scared of slipping I do often. I know God loves us all, I just want to do right by Him.

I look at people around me that are'nt exactly the spokes people for Christian Moral Life. I get so sad. I am quite the same as them. I hope the Lord will bare with me long enough for me to start getting it right.

Blessing to you all
Dee

None of us can claim the "goody two shoes" trophy DeeDee!  :first: :declare: :mnah:

Scott (Pneuma) gave real good advice (in reply #1)... for we are ALL a work in progress, which means that there is correction due in ALL of our lives, ...ALL of our lives!  :yes:

As he said... do what you hear GOD telling you to do... and if you don't hear him (but just hear others telling you)... WAIT on Him, till you KNOW HE is telling you... :director: :icon_queen:  :boogie:

peacE...
willieH     :angelharp:

[Craig]

Thanks again to all.

I just get so scared I am doing something wrong. I have not lived the most moral life. Even now I still have issues. I am at the point that I worry about everything I do and say. Because I am so scared of slipping I do often. I know God loves us all, I just want to do right by Him.
Dee

There should be no fear that you are doing something wrong if your heart is desired to do what is good. Mistakes, stumbles and new discoveries are all part of life and it should not be clouded with any looming fear. Their is a good fear, a self-awareness, and then there is a bad fear, a terror. There is no terror in God and should you fall, He is there to pick you up.

Some people have no respect for God, and so they do not have any understanding that not all fear is evil. These people will cause you more trouble in your life if you listen to them because they themselves are decieved in what is good and what is evil in order to live to what is good.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi DeeDee... :hithere:

Always remember this dear one:

1 John 4:18  ...there is NO FEAR, ...in LOVE;  but PERFECT LOVE, ...CASTETH OUT FEAR... because FEAR hath TORMENT.  He that FEARETH is NOT MADE PERFECT, ...in LOVE.

GOD is not about making you afraid... MEN, in their CARNAL WRECKLESSNESS and Corrupted THEOLOGY... seek to instill FEAR in their readers...

GOD is LOVE... as John noted in 1 John 4:8... which a few verses later notes in 1 John 4:14  that LOVE sent His Son to SAVE THE WORLD... and then proceeds to tell us that OUR LOVE is made PERFECT [complete] by our confession of CHRIST as the Son of God: 1 John 4:15-17... and then concludes by noting that FEAR is NOT a PART of LOVE... 1 John 4:18

He concludes in 1 John 4:19-21 that as we LOVE our brothers whom we CAN SEE, is the verification of CHRIST and LOVE, present in our lives, CASTING OUT FEAR.

If you have confessed CHRIST as the SON of GOD, and you LOVE your brothers, ...then you have nothing to FEAR, for it is IN that CONFESSION, that you are made PERFECT concerning LOVE 1 John 4:17...

This context is very self explanatory... and many (supposed) THEOLOGIANS shall try to lead you down the trail of FEAR... instead of the TRAIL of LOVE...  If you are wise, you will not heed such men/women... :mnah:

GOD uses and is WORKING ALL THINGS within His PURPOSE, and according to HIS WILL... as is PLAINLY noted in Eph 1:9-11

peacE...
willieH     :angelharp:

[Nathan]

I'm not going to address the fear piece here, it appears that's been covered thoroughly.  But to me, the fear is not your issue.  Fear is the symptom.  What the issue seems to be to me is, your ego has a picture of what it's convinced a Christian is, and your mind is trying to measure up to that and can't.

To that I (and I think it's safe to say "we") can say . .WELCOME TO THE CLUB!!! 

Not one of us can live up to the standards of our own natural reasoning.  That's what's so liberating in these days of Christ we now live in.  We're finding just how far his Grace does go in our inarrant ways of thinking.  Even in the arugments that arise from time to time on the forums are covered by Grace.

That's the crux of our relationship with Christ.  We've learned that we did nothing to be a sinner . . .we were born into it.  And just as we did nothing to be a sinner, we also did nothing to become redeemed.  We were born "again" into that as well.  But there are still parts of our fallen nature that tries to pull us back into our old nature again.  But this is where 2 Corinthians 10 comes into play . . .take captive those thoughts.  Why?  Because they are lies.

Your ego will tell you that you are a substandard product.  You don't really fit in with other Christians.  You're a fake.  The reason these things are being said to you in your head are because the carnal thinking in you does not have the capacity to comprehend that you actually do get something for nothing here.  You get LIFE just by believing . .not by doing.  Romans says that this carnal mind in us is always at enmity with God, or it's always at war with God.  It's always arguing against the godly things that try to take root in us.  It's used to controling your thougt patterns and it's used to living on the surface of your feelings.

But there's been a resurrection in the spirit of you that your mind can not comprehend, nor can it control.  So in response, it inflates these lies to bring you into a state of guilt and shame and . .yes . .fear.  But TRUTH says, you have been not only called, but also chosen.  You are a king . .you are a priest.  You are not a failure, you are a conqueror.  You do realize don't you that when you were conceived, there were actually millions of other seeds that were all pursuing the same egg within your mother's womb, but God chose you to manifest.  You were already a fulfillment of his plan before you were even able to learn how to speak.

And now, there is a deeper calling that goes beyond your head.  Your head can never enter into these spectacular realms of glory.  What does happen is, your heart reveals these glorious things to your head and understanding begins to form and change your personality and desires.  The key is, you must let your spirit lead your mind.  In other words . . .you don't need to try to figure everything out and conjure up a plan of action.  Trust the Lord that there is something great about to manifest in you and lay your mind down to it. 

Heck, if you've read many of these threads, you see that there are people swimming in Truth and have been for some time and still have problems trying to put in to words what their spirit is seeing.  Just enjoy the ride . . . as God told Moses "Stand back and see what the Glory of the Lord is about to do."

We're in this with ya!

[Craig]

As I said, there are those who do not have any fear and do evil unknowingly because of it, do not listen to these men because they do not know what fear means. They take the English word for 'fear' and apply broadly across the board to believe fear means 'terror' and to their own folly lead people astray. Committing a fallacy, they do evil in their life and feel justified for it. God will deal with them justly.

Philippians 3:18-21
For, as I have often told you before and now say again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is on earthly things. But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

Self-awareness of one's actions is also a fear mentioned in Scripture as 'fear', there is also reverence of God who is all-powerful and all-knowing never decieved or blinded which is in Scripture is known as 'fear' but neither of these is a fear of torment or terror, it is an understanding that evil leads to evil and good leads to good. Those who cannot distinguish between good and evil are infants and in need of milk.

2 Corinthians 5:10-15
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience. We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again, but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us, so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen rather than in what is in the heart. If we are out of our mind, it is for the sake of God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

Acts 9:31
Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee and Samaria enjoyed a time of peace. It was strengthened; and encouraged by the Holy Spirit, it grew in numbers, living in the fear of the Lord.

[Nathan]

Those who cannot distinguish between good and evil are infants and in need of milk.

Really?  "That's" how you judge between a mature Christian and an infant?

This person we're responding to has been badly scarred by the things of her mind and the best you can do is stomp all over someone elses attempt to comfort her?

I understand you and Willie have a rift . . .but you really need to get over yourself with this.  It's getting sickening to see your wet-blanket theology expose your coldness every time you see an opportunity. 

I'm sure I'm going to get a rebuke from you on this and frankly, I don't care . .it's to the point where I wonder if being on this forum is even worth it anymore. 

There are truly people out there that are hurting and need an extra effort to really feel the Love of Christ through others and every time, to me, every time the momentum picks up, something has to be thrown out to douse the fire . .all in the name of God?  I just don't see the benefit of tearing people down just because you don't agree with them.

Your Good and evil theology is abusive.  God doesn't want us to go around with this rod of iron accusing people of who is good and who is evil.  He didn't want Adam to be a part of this tree from the beginning.  The truth is, the one who is mature is the one who does discern good from evil . . .AND STILL CALLS FORTH THE GOOD. 

I'm done.

[Craig]

Those who cannot distinguish between good and evil are infants and in need of milk.

Really?  "That's" how you judge between a mature Christian and an infant?

Where did I say that is how I judge a mature Christian and an infant?

Hebrews 5:11-14
We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 3Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

If you cannot distinguish between good from evil, then you are an infant. If you are an infant, than you are still in disunity with the Body of Christ being tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine.

Ephesians 4:10-15
He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.

If you cannot tell the difference between guilt and conviction, or righteousness and condemnation, or awareness and fear, then you are an infant and you do not know the things of God and have no business teaching on such things.

God is judge, and a righteous judge who acts out of love, mercy and faithfulness but that does not nullify justice either.

Romans 1:18-32
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

1 Peter 2:15-16
For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men. Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God.

I understand you and Willie have a rift . . .but you really need to get over yourself with this.  It's getting sickening to see your wet-blanket theology expose your coldness every time you see an opportunity.

I'm sure I'm going to get a rebuke from you on this and frankly, I don't care . .it's to the point where I wonder if being on this forum is even worth it anymore.

What wet-blanket theology and what coldness? The only ones who have problems with it, are those who live hedonistic lives based on their emotions and cannot distinguish a truth from a lie and do everything in their power to run from the light when the light has come.

John 3:19-21
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

HERE IS A REALITY

The Truth will expose everyone for who they are and at the time it will appear to feel cold, but that is because it strips you of your pride and you have nowhere to hide, naked before God. Better for the one who recognizes it now in this life, then appear before God in the next one confessing a self-deception which is indeed as obvious to them as it is to God.

If you want to live a good moral Christian life, you need to know what a good moral Christian life is. If you do not know, you will not live it, plain and simple.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

2 Timothy 3:2-6
People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God—having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.

Titus 1:16
They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.

2 Peter 2:1
There were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

Jude 1:4
For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

It is very obvious, and those who cannot see it, also do not understand the Grace of God in such circumstances either.

2 Corinthians 5:2-5
Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

We do not want to be found naked when we see Him, but clothed in our heavenly dwelling not lies and self-deceit. We were created in Jesus Christ to do good, and those who do continue to do what is good are clothed in Him and have nothing to hide. He has made us for this very purpose.

Doing good is not easy, but that is why His grace is sufficient for us and in our time of need we can walk boldly into that throne room of Grace.

[martincisneros]

Those who cannot distinguish between good and evil are infants and in need of milk.
Really?  "That's" how you judge between a mature Christian and an infant?

Actually, that's how the Bible distinguishes them in Hebrews 5:12-14, as well as 1Corinthians 3, and there's a disputed phrase in the opening of 1Peter 2 along these lines about desiring the sincere milk of the Word that you may grow thereby.  I can't remember which translations that I've seen that word it a little differently in 1Peter 2, but my NASB and Concordant include it, so that means it's got manuscript support.  If the jury of some scholars is still out on that one, the Hebrews 5 and 1Corinthians 3 passage are still clear about it, and possibly from different authors.  And what I mean by possibly is that if it wound up being someone in St. Paul's circle that wrote Hebrews, it would still likely reflect his teachings even if on a technicality someone else's finger prints were on the originals.

This person we're responding to has been badly scarred by the things of her mind and the best you can do is stomp all over someone elses attempt to comfort her?

Comfort must remain Scripturally balanced, otherwise someone will walk away from momentary comfort only to have the Scriptures torment them later if they haven't had what they're reading clarified for them by the Holy Spirit and/or by these open doors for others into the subject.

I understand you and Willie have a rift . . .but you really need to get over yourself with this.  It's getting sickening to see your wet-blanket theology expose your coldness every time you see an opportunity.

WillieH and Craig can get pretty emotional, but right now you seem to be having the meltdown, bro!

I'm sure I'm going to get a rebuke from you on this and frankly, I don't care . .it's to the point where I wonder if being on this forum is even worth it anymore.

The forum can be challenging to the best of us, but as a minister you need both the challenges and the openness to reevaluate your own beliefs.  Not jumping on you.  On the freewill/hell thread we had going for a while, I got deeply turned off by the Predeterminist point of view, but I see it enough in the Scriptures to where I've been willing to get chatty on it with the Predeterminists around here on the George MacDonald thread that I'd started a while back.  When we're very deeply dissatisfied by what we're hearing from others, sometimes that's our own hearts reaching out to the Holy Spirit for a deeper revelation of some truth.  Voice of experience talking here on that.

There are truly people out there that are hurting and need an extra effort to really feel the Love of Christ through others and every time, to me, every time the momentum picks up, something has to be thrown out to douse the fire . .all in the name of God?  I just don't see the benefit of tearing people down just because you don't agree with them.

Wanting to remain firmly Scripturally rooted isn't of itself an attempt at tearing anyone down.  And you've been around long enough to know that when some of these guys wanna make it personal, it can be a bit more biting.

Your Good and evil theology is abusive.

It can be.  We've all gotten our share of licks from it.  But it's how God has chosen to structure the Scriptures.  Does the pottery have the right to say to the Potter, what the heck are you doing, and why are you doing it that way?  There's much at these boards to challenge the level of Scriptural and Holy Spirit authority that all of our beliefs have.  As an example of what I'm going through: I'm comfortable in my theology without the Predeterminist perspective since I've heard so little of it taught in my life time.  But I see enough of it in Scripture to not turn a deaf ear to those that spend the most time praying and meditating on those particular parts of Scripture.  I'm not choosing sides here and I'm more than aware of the history of these boards and that neither Craig nor WillieH are innocent of having smacked each other around a few times, as well as others.  But don't let what you see of other people's growing pains and what's probably a fair amount of not knowing how to take someone in an environment that has zero facial expressions and voice tones -- don't let what's just honestly a certain amount of you're being sick and tired of hearing such and such blind you to what the Holy Spirit may be moving you into a position to hear from Him if you don't entertain an offense.  I'm personally rereading some stuff on other threads that's partially going down like very strong alcohol because I don't want to let my initial knee jerk reactions keep me from getting from the Holy Spirit what my Lord wanted me to get out of something that He drew my attention to on these boards.  I do believe that our Lord brought you to these boards, Nathan.  If you need space/time to process, pray, and find your peace again, absolutely all of us will understand that.  But please do come back after you've been refreshed by the Presence of our Lord.

[rhellis]

Dee Dee,

I just read this, and I am touched.

Let me say first of all, you are free to do anything you want, anything at all, and the action itself is of no greater or lesser value to God than any other. There is no right and wrong, only love. Pursue love, allow love to move you, be God's channel of love into this world, and that is ALL that is required, seriously, that's all.

[Pierac]

Mar 12:28  One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, "What commandment is the foremost of all?"   29  Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;  30  AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.' 31  "The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'  There is no other commandment greater than these."

Don't sweat it, all you need to know is here in these 4 verses..the rest is commentary!
Paul

[willieH]

Those who cannot distinguish between good and evil are infants and in need of milk.

Really?  "That's" how you judge between a mature Christian and an infant?

Where did I say that is how I judge a mature Christian and an infant?

Hebrews 5:11-14
We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 3Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

If you cannot distinguish between good from evil, then you are an infant. If you are an infant, than you are still in disunity with the Body of Christ being tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine.

Ephesians 4:10-15
He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.

If you cannot tell the difference between guilt and conviction, or righteousness and condemnation, or awareness and fear, then you are an infant and you do not know the things of God and have no business teaching on such things.

God is judge, and a righteous judge who acts out of love, mercy and faithfulness but that does not nullify justice either.

Romans 1:18-32
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

1 Peter 2:15-16
For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men. Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God.

I understand you and Willie have a rift . . .but you really need to get over yourself with this.  It's getting sickening to see your wet-blanket theology expose your coldness every time you see an opportunity.

I'm sure I'm going to get a rebuke from you on this and frankly, I don't care . .it's to the point where I wonder if being on this forum is even worth it anymore.

What wet-blanket theology and what coldness? The only ones who have problems with it, are those who live hedonistic lives based on their emotions and cannot distinguish a truth from a lie and do everything in their power to run from the light when the light has come.

John 3:19-21
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

HERE IS A REALITY

The Truth will expose everyone for who they are and at the time it will appear to feel cold, but that is because it strips you of your pride and you have nowhere to hide, naked before God. Better for the one who recognizes it now in this life, then appear before God in the next one confessing a self-deception which is indeed as obvious to them as it is to God.

If you want to live a good moral Christian life, you need to know what a good moral Christian life is. If you do not know, you will not live it, plain and simple.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

2 Timothy 3:2-6
People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God—having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.

Titus 1:16
They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.

2 Peter 2:1
There were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

Jude 1:4
For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

It is very obvious, and those who cannot see it, also do not understand the Grace of God in such circumstances either.

2 Corinthians 5:2-5
Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

We do not want to be found naked when we see Him, but clothed in our heavenly dwelling not lies and self-deceit. We were created in Jesus Christ to do good, and those who do continue to do what is good are clothed in Him and have nothing to hide. He has made us for this very purpose.

Doing good is not easy, but that is why His grace is sufficient for us and in our time of need we can walk boldly into that throne room of Grace.

A grand collection of self originated LEGALISM... If GOD is not WORKING, than the WORK is in VAIN...

Ps 127:1  Except YHVH ...BUILD the HOUSE...  they labour in VAIN that BUILD IT... Except YHVH keep the city, the watchmen waketh but in VAIN...

Seek GOD in your heart, and the truth of HIS WORD's will FIND YOU, as HE sets before you, the course of your life's trail...  For it is the WORK of the SHEPHERD, to FIND the SHEEP!  :dsunny:

Read PIERAC's (reply #14) post for some solidly good and SPIRITUAL advice...  :boogie:

peacE...
willieH     :angelharp:

[Craig]

You don't know what Legalism is Willie, anyone who knows me, knows I am the least legalistic person they know. So I guess you don't know me either. More meaningless rhetoric from WillieH that has no substance or foundation but Ad Hominem attacks, that is, insults and arguments against the person rather than the truth.

[Craig]

DeeDee, you may see this thread and wonder, but you read my website and none of these guys who insult me know who I am.

You need to be careful not to listen to those who say there is not right and wrong, good or evil, Scripture calls them evil. They invented a doctrine that there is no right and wrong, because they are still scared and fearful of what happens when they are wrong. Instead of confronting the fact that God is a God of love, they threw away the baby with the bathwater and just came up with this evil doctrine which says there is no right and wrong.

This is the truth:  You need to know is there is a right and wrong, but it doesn't matter if your heart is pure and you are pursuing God. If your heart is always to God, doing wrong is nothing to fear because He will set your pathes straight. That is what His grace is sufficient for. So whether or not you are doing right or you are found doing wrong, God is Love and if your motivation is pure, all things are pure.

[willieH]

You don't know what Legalism is Willie, anyone who knows me, knows I am the least legalistic person they know. So I guess you don't know me either. More meaningless rhetoric from WillieH that has no substance or foundation but Ad Hominem attacks, that is, insults and arguments against the person rather than the truth.

You do not have a clue as to what I "KNOW"...  as far as LEGALISM goes... I have dealt with this premise for YEARS so please don't pretend to insinuate to me that I do not KNOW its meaning...  If you truly KNEW its meaning, you would preach premises other than you do, in a way other than you do...

LEGALISM:  To ADHERE STRICTLY to a specific RELGIOUS code, especially as a means of gaining approval... which in essence is WHAT YOU PREACH Craig...

You think to KNOW everyone else, but NO ONE KNOWS you eh?  Please... :rolleye:

I said NOTHING about you... just commented on the legalistic ..."work your way to heaven" ..."get a reward"  ..."to hell with whoever disagrees with me", philosphy you preach...   :sigh:  ...which unfortunately misses the point...  :sigh:

GOD is LOVE... which is what I preach and pursue...  THAT is what I recommended in the post,

PIERAC notes to LOVE GOD with all your heart, strength, and mind, and your neighbor as yourself... THAT is the GOSPEL in a nutshell...

You are welcome to try to earn your way to Heaven if you must... and to condemn everyone else to lesser than yourself postions... As for me, I will recommend GOD and HIS LOVE above any other thing...

Ad hominem, ad shmominem Craig... get over your demands... No one said ANYTHING personal about you... Just found your recommendations less than PIERAC's...  :dontknow:

No "ad nasueum" attacks sotw... just the straight poop... can't handle it, get out, ...the water...

I got nothing against you Craig...  Learn to LOVE a little bro...  It really blows my mind that after 4 years of our bickering that you do not see that GOD has put us together to LOVE one another...  :HeartThrob:

When is it going to happen?  :dunno:

I'm willing, ...are you?  :friendstu:

peacE...
willieH     :boyheart:

[Craig]

Whatever floats your boat WillieH.

[DeeDee]

Thank you ALL. You are ALL wonderful and I love you ALL and I value what ALL of you have to say to me.

Willie and Craig - you both help me and you both make me feel better. You are both very passionate about God and have amazing faith in Him. You both clearly have love for your fellow man 2. That is why you are both so passionate in your answers. No one wants to lead anyone astray or down the wrong path. I get that and I am so thankful to both of you.

Nathan, you touch my heart deeply 2 and please don't worry I have never felt like anyone here is trying to break me down or upset me. It really means a great deal to me that you care so very very much about me and my feelings and you don't even know me. Please don't leave the boards.

God Bless all of you my dear dear friends

Dee

[reFORMer]

Literally it is written:  "...beside the good and the evil."  What is "beside" the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? The tree of life, from which it is granted to Overcomers to eat.  But there's more!  "Thy loving kindness is better than life."  This "loving-kindness" is hesed or "mercy."  It is covenant love in action.  It is the ardor to meet the need, to fulfill.  ("I will pour floods upon the dry ground.")  It is the throne, the MERCY Throne upon which the glory rests.  The fountain of waters of life is between the two trees in the midst of the garden, beside both the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the tree of life.  Beyond these creation's trees we're summoned into the uncreated being of God.  Shekinah his bride in union with Him is being readied to sit with Him in His throne.  The woman is the glory of the man.  We are His bride.  The reign of God is in MERCY.

At the center of the world is God's nation.  At the center of His nation is Jerusalem.  At the center of the Holy City of temples is the Temple.  At the center of The Temple is the Holy of Holies.  At the center of the Holy of Holies is the Throne of God and of the Lamb:  The MERCY Throne.  At The Center, ruling over all, the Word, Who is the Image and Glory of God, rests upon The MERCY Throne.

Jesus said, "Of my own self I can do nothing."  Why would our confession be any different?  If Jesus cannot live "the Christian life" why would we think we can?  He said, "It is the Father Who is with me, He does the works."

[Craig]

Willie and Craig - you both help me and you both make me feel better. You are both very passionate about God and have amazing faith in Him. You both clearly have love for your fellow man 2. That is why you are both so passionate in your answers. No one wants to lead anyone astray or down the wrong path. I get that and I am so thankful to both of you.

I am glad you can see that. I also care about your feelings, though I do not appeal to emotion to get those feelings. If we are anchored in the truth, emotion will flow and because the truth sets us free, those feelings should be freedom not bondage. All things are permissible, but not all things are beneficial. I like to see a wound healed which sometimes involves pain, rather than just covering it up with comfortable bandages but the wound still exist.

[DeeDee]

Thanks Craig  :Sparkletooth:

[Molly]

God has given us everything we need to live wonderful lives here on earth--even if we were to live for eternity.   He has given us great abundance and the brilliant minds to tap into it, unlimited sources of energy, a way to live in peace with our neighbors, enough food and shelter for all 6 billion people on the planet.

Then why is there so much death, despair, and poverty?  Why is there always so much fighting amongst brothers?

There is another force at work that is in opposition to God.  It is based on lies, greed, a desire for power equal to, but not derived from, God.  Every indication says that this is the dominant power in control of the world today.

Let's take something like illegal drugs.  A small group of men realized they could get very rich by running a billion dollar tax free drug business.  Not only that, but they could control large groups of drug addicted people--keep them passive and out of it, and focused on nothing more than their next fix.

Great bureaucracies could be grown up around the drug trade, giving employment to a small private army who would by definition never solve the problem, lest they be out of a job.  The war on drugs, like the war on terror, is not meant to ever be won.

Another system of drug rehabilitation facilities make large profits treating drug users.

Another system of prisons employs thousands to house and guard the hapless users, using them as slave labor.

Drugs are big business.   And, drugs destroy generation after generation--rendering them useless if not outright killing them.  And, the drug lords kill everyone who comes against them.

A great way to control people and get rich in the bargain.  And, what do the drug lords do with their huge fortunes?  They turn it into political power to keep their business safe.

Everyone who is not on drugs ignores the problem--it is not their problem, after all.  This includes all the Christian churches because if the Christian churches made this their problem, it would stop overnight.

How might Jesus feel about this?


18"The Lord's Spirit

   has come to me,

   because he has chosen me

   to tell the good news

   to the poor.

   The Lord has sent me

   to announce freedom

   for prisoners,

   to give sight to the blind,

   to free everyone

   who suffers,

    19and to say, `This is the year

   the Lord has chosen.' "

--Luke 4



And, we as the agents of Christ, what are we to do?




Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Matthew 10:38
and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.