Genesis - In our image

[Amie]

Hi all,

I'm hoping that you'll forgive my not going through every post with a fine toothed comb.  Just being three pages, this thread is LONG when I just came on the scene.  That said, I would like to throw in my two cents along with all of this fantastic exchange.

Personally, I find it important to understand the culture and thinking of the people who wrote the passages.  Ancient Hebrews thought concretely.  This means that if they could not personally relate to it through the senses (touch, taste, smell, see - or relationally via the heart) that it was rare that they considered it - if at all.  The concepts that are often applied to the bible, are abstract and that can lead to a great deal of misunderstanding.

For example, the word translated "image" is "tselem" and it literally means "shadow".  Translators often interpret as they earnestly try to convey the story as they understand it.  A "shadow" is concrete and relational where as a conceptual "image" is not.  The Hebrews therefore will have seen this as a shadow cast by a care-taker... like a shepard over his sheep, or a father over his children.  If you have children, peek in on them tonight and see the shadow that you cast -- that is the image in which humanity was created.

Another example from an article I wrote titled "Why Hebrew?":

Exodus 34 14 For you shall not bow to another god, for Jehovah whose name is Jealous, He is a jealous God;

This may not sound like a God of love to us. Jealousy is such an "ugly green emotion". This sounds as if God is inconsistant and not the same, from now, and forever. A glimpse into what the Ancient Hebrew writer meant, when he chose such a word, will clear things up.

"Jealous" is the Hebrew "QaNA". Some very ancient writing sheds some insight in how they understood that word. It was written in picture form, like Egyptian heiroglyph. Each symbol, which in our modern alphabet are letters, had meaning.

"Q", the symbol for a rising and setting sun.. To the Hebrew people, the sun gathered the light to it at sunset, and the dark to it at dawn. The rising and setting sun was understood as circling the earth. The meaning of the symbol is "the circling sun which causes the gathering of light and darkness".

Seeds were understood to be the beginning of life from a parent plant, in a continuous, generational cycle. The meaning of the symbol for seed is "a continuation of life from a seed", pronounced "N".

Together, the seed placed before the rising sun, their meaning is "The gathering of materials for the building of a nest for the seeds (eggs)", pronounced "QeN".

"QaNA"/"Jealous" is written with a bull's head (symbol for strength), and then the seed and sun symbols.

When the symbols are combined, we can better understand the communication offered by the author in Exodus 34:14. It is the visual of a bird watching over the eggs and young with "jealousy" (the action, not an emotion), defending them from the enemy, preventing any other bird from entering the nest.

Just as a bird watches over and protects its' nest from predetors, so does God watch over and protect his children from predetors.

Again a word, in this case "jealousy" being removed from being understood abstractly, can offer richness in our understanding what the original authors are trying to communicate.

"Likeness" ("demuth") is "similitude".   Hebrews could see that dogs had offspring after their kind, goats after their kind, and people after their kind.  How could human beings be children of God if they were made of flesh and related to the world through that flesh?  I think first there was a magnification of the perspective of flesh - through the Mosaic Law.  Then there was the revelation of Jesus as he contrasted the flesh understanding of the law with a spiritual understanding.  It demonstrated not necessarily an err of humanity, but a short sightedness.

"Spirit" mind you, was not removed and abstract either.  It is experienced in the heart and is that which flows forth from it.  Like, a lying person had a "spirit of falsehood" and a generous person had a "giving spirit".  There is an overarching "Spirit of God" and God is defined as "love". 

God promised Israel that if she could keep her end of a deal, that she would be "Kings" (having authority - which they will have seen as God himself in them) and "Priests", not to herself, but to others.  She fell short, again bringing to light a short sightedness inherant in every human being.  Jesus kept her part on her behalf, he having "eyes to see".  She inherited what was promised and so the entire world was given a new sight - the old world having passed away.

As humanity had been in the likeness of "Adam" (flesh and blood thinking..see Romans 8:6 for example per "mind of flesh") it would have life in the likeness of the "last Adam", becoming as a "heavenly man" and a "new creation". 

Since the truth is revealed, that is accomplished - Jesus has come to us, God is "all in all" -- but again, I'm just throwing my two cents in, I'm not formulating an argument.  This is my view as I see it - you sure don't have to :-).

Amie

[WhiteWings]

(2 Corinthians 4:4) In whom, the god of this age, hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, to the end they may not discern the radiance of the glad–message of the glory of the Christ––who is the image of God.

(Genesis 1:27) And God created the man, in his own image, In the image of God, created he, him,––Male and female, created he, them.

So both the first and second Adam are created in the image of God.

[micah7:9]

For Molly Reply #16 Aug. 30.

Joh 5:39  Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. (KJV)


Joh 5:39 Ye search the scriptures, because ye think that in them ye have eternal life; and these are they which bear witness of me; (ASV)
Joh 5:39 Ye search the Scriptures, because, ye, think, by them, to have, life age–abiding; and, those [Scriptures], are they which bear witness concerning me:(Rotherham)
Joh 5:39 You search the writings, because you think in them life age-lasting to have; and they are those testifying concerning me;(Emp.Diag)
Joh 5:39 You pore over the Scriptures, for you think that you will find eternal life in them, and these very Scriptures testify to me,(Goodspeed)
Joh 5:39 "You search the Scriptures, because you suppose that in them you will find the Life of the Ages; and it is those Scriptures that yield testimony concerning me;(Weymouth)
Joh 5:39 `Ye search the Writings, because ye think in them to have life age-during, and these are they that are testifying concerning me;(YLT)

I believe it makes a great deal of difference in our understanding

[Quaesitor]

For Molly Reply #16 Aug. 30.

Joh 5:39  Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. (KJV)


Joh 5:39 Ye search the scriptures, because ye think that in them ye have eternal life; and these are they which bear witness of me; (ASV)
Joh 5:39 Ye search the Scriptures, because, ye, think, by them, to have, life age–abiding; and, those [Scriptures], are they which bear witness concerning me:(Rotherham)
Joh 5:39 You search the writings, because you think in them life age-lasting to have; and they are those testifying concerning me;(Emp.Diag)
Joh 5:39 You pore over the Scriptures, for you think that you will find eternal life in them, and these very Scriptures testify to me,(Goodspeed)
Joh 5:39 "You search the Scriptures, because you suppose that in them you will find the Life of the Ages; and it is those Scriptures that yield testimony concerning me;(Weymouth)
Joh 5:39 `Ye search the Writings, because ye think in them to have life age-during, and these are they that are testifying concerning me;(YLT)

I believe it makes a great deal of difference in our understanding

I do not know what that was about but I know it sounds like music to my ears!

[WhiteWings]

(2 Corinthians 4:4) In whom, the god of this age, hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, to the end they may not discern the radiance of the glad–message of the glory of the Christ––who is the image of God.

(Genesis 1:27) And God created the man, in his own image, In the image of God, created he, him,––Male and female, created he, them.

So both the first and second Adam are created in the image of God.

Take a good look at the blue parts.....
Son is the image of Father.
Son=Image
We are created in the image of Father.
We are created in the Son of Father.

[thinktank]

so God created man, in the image of God. So one is the artist and one is the model!

[WhiteWings]

TT, all,

I'm also refering to this short thread: http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=7225.0 (Especially the 2nd post/1st reply post.)

I tried to picture it and sounds  a bit like a corona...
(http://thumb15.shutterstock.com.edgesuite.net/display_pic_with_logo/197467/197467,1208337905,1/stock-photo-person-looking-into-light-or-standing-in-front-of-light-looking-forward-11583238.jpg)

/EDIT

so God created man, in the image of God. So one is the artist and one is the model!

Yep, I can agree with that.

[Molly]

(2 Corinthians 4:4) In whom, the god of this age, hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, to the end they may not discern the radiance of the glad–message of the glory of the Christ––who is the image of God.

(Genesis 1:27) And God created the man, in his own image, In the image of God, created he, him,––Male and female, created he, them.

So both the first and second Adam are created in the image of God.

Take a good look at the blue parts.....
Son is the image of Father.
Son=Image
We are created in the image of Father.
We are created in the Son of Father.

:thumbsup:  Jesus is the template for us. [now you know why Satan was so upset.]


...Adam..., who is the figure of him that was to come.

--Rom 5:14

[Molly]

TT, all,

I'm also refering to this short thread: http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=7225.0 (Especially the 2nd/1st reply post.)

I tried to picture it and sounds  abit like a corona...
(http://thumb15.shutterstock.com.edgesuite.net/display_pic_with_logo/197467/197467,1208337905,1/stock-photo-person-looking-into-light-or-standing-in-front-of-light-looking-forward-11583238.jpg)

wow We finally get to see what you look like, ww. :Sparkletooth:

[WhiteWings]

^YLTMark 14
62 and Jesus said, `I am; and ye shall see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of the power, and coming with the clouds, of the heaven.'

^YLTRevelation 3
21 He who is overcoming--I will give to him to sit with me in my throne, as I also did overcome and did sit down with my Father in His throne.

Jesus sits at the right hand (=place of honor) of Father.
But we sit on the same spot as Jesus.
Do we 'sit in Jesus'?

[Molly]

^YLTMark 14
62 and Jesus said, `I am; and ye shall see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of the power, and coming with the clouds, of the heaven.'

^YLTRevelation 3
21 He who is overcoming--I will give to him to sit with me in my throne, as I also did overcome and did sit down with my Father in His throne.

Jesus sits at the right hand (=place of honor) of Father.
But we sit on the same spot as Jesus.
Do we 'sit in Jesus'?

[to sit] "with" [me]

G3326
μετά
meta
met-ah'
A primary preposition (often used adverbially); properly denoting accompaniment; "amid" (local or causal); modified variously according to the case (genitive case association, or accusative case succession) with which it is joined; occupying an intermediate position between G575 or G1537 and G1519 or G4314; less intimate than G1722, and less close than G4862): - after (-ward),X that he again, against, among, X and, + follow, hence, hereafter, in, of, (up-) on, + our, X and setting, since, (un-) to, + together, when, with (+ -out). Often used in composition, in substantially the same relations of participation or proximity, and transfer or sequence.


[sitting] "on" [the right hand of the power]

G1537
εκ, εξ
ek  ex
ek, ex
A primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence motion or action proceeds), from, out (of place, time or cause; literally or figuratively; direct or remote): - after, among, X are, at betwixt (-yond), by (the means of), exceedingly, (+ abundantly above), for (-th), from (among, forth, up), + grudgingly, + heartily, X heavenly, X hereby, + very highly, in, . . . ly, (because, by reason) of, off (from), on, out among (from, of), over, since, X thenceforth, through, X unto, X vehemently, with (-out). Often used in composition, with the same general import; often of completion.


Stick out your right hand, ww.  Are you his right hand man?

[thinktank]

^YLTMark 14
62 and Jesus said, `I am; and ye shall see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of the power, and coming with the clouds, of the heaven.'

^YLTRevelation 3
21 He who is overcoming--I will give to him to sit with me in my throne, as I also did overcome and did sit down with my Father in His throne.

Jesus sits at the right hand (=place of honor) of Father.
But we sit on the same spot as Jesus.
Do we 'sit in Jesus'?

Matthew 20:23 

And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father

[thinktank]

(2 Corinthians 4:4) In whom, the god of this age, hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, to the end they may not discern the radiance of the glad–message of the glory of the Christ––who is the image of God.

(Genesis 1:27) And God created the man, in his own image, In the image of God, created he, him,––Male and female, created he, them.

So both the first and second Adam are created in the image of God.

Take a good look at the blue parts.....
Son is the image of Father.
Son=Image
We are created in the image of Father.
We are created in the Son of Father.

:thumbsup:  Jesus is the template for us. [now you know why Satan was so upset.]


...Adam..., who is the figure of him that was to come.

--Rom 5:14

Hebrews 1:3   

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

[WhiteWings]

TT, I hope you wash your feet before you die because I don't want to spent eternity smelling your feet on that throne  :footmouth:
:icon_king:

[thinktank]

TT, I hope you wash your feet before you die because I don't want to spent eternity smelling your feet on that throne  :footmouth:
:icon_king:

Your too humble, placing me above you, it is the father who places the positions of authority and no doubt the disciples will be the ones sitting next to Jesus, while the rest of us will be part of the huge crowd. That crowd must be gigantic,  they must have a big stadium in heaven  :mshock: I hope they don't call us one by one like the do in graduation days, otherwise we could be there for eternity  :happygrin:

[Molly]

(2 Corinthians 4:4) In whom, the god of this age, hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, to the end they may not discern the radiance of the glad–message of the glory of the Christ––who is the image of God.

(Genesis 1:27) And God created the man, in his own image, In the image of God, created he, him,––Male and female, created he, them.

So both the first and second Adam are created in the image of God.

Take a good look at the blue parts.....
Son is the image of Father.
Son=Image
We are created in the image of Father.
We are created in the Son of Father.

:thumbsup:  Jesus is the template for us. [now you know why Satan was so upset.]


...Adam..., who is the figure of him that was to come.

--Rom 5:14

Hebrews 1:3   

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

--Hebrews 1



This says he is speaking to us by his Son in the last days.  That's right according to the context.  But, in a more general context, it could also be read--he is speaking to us through sonship.



Hath in these last days spoken unto us by "uihos"

G5207
υιός
uihos
hwee-os'
Apparently a primary word; a "son" (sometimes of animals), used very widely of immediate, remote or figurative kinship: - child, foal, son.

[Cardinal]

^YLTMark 14
62 and Jesus said, `I am; and ye shall see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of the power, and coming with the clouds, of the heaven.'

^YLTRevelation 3
21 He who is overcoming--I will give to him to sit with me in my throne, as I also did overcome and did sit down with my Father in His throne.

Jesus sits at the right hand (=place of honor) of Father.
But we sit on the same spot as Jesus.
Do we 'sit in Jesus'?

:cloud9: Right hand = place of ring of authority of the King. Ring is a seal or signet ring, used to seal an image into a clay tablet (book or letter), and was used to purchase land in the authority of the King.

Christ sits on the right hand of the Father and is what seals us in our forehead, purchases us, transforms us into His image. Blessings....

[Cardinal]

Matthew 20:23  And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father

:cloud9: And it was.....Elijah and Moses.....

[Cardinal]

Hi all,

I'm hoping that you'll forgive my not going through every post with a fine toothed comb.  Just being three pages, this thread is LONG when I just came on the scene.  That said, I would like to throw in my two cents along with all of this fantastic exchange.

Personally, I find it important to understand the culture and thinking of the people who wrote the passages.  Ancient Hebrews thought concretely.  This means that if they could not personally relate to it through the senses (touch, taste, smell, see - or relationally via the heart) that it was rare that they considered it - if at all.  The concepts that are often applied to the bible, are abstract and that can lead to a great deal of misunderstanding.

For example, the word translated "image" is "tselem" and it literally means "shadow".  Translators often interpret as they earnestly try to convey the story as they understand it.  A "shadow" is concrete and relational where as a conceptual "image" is not.  The Hebrews therefore will have seen this as a shadow cast by a care-taker... like a shepard over his sheep, or a father over his children.  If you have children, peek in on them tonight and see the shadow that you cast -- that is the image in which humanity was created.

Another example from an article I wrote titled "Why Hebrew?":

Exodus 34 14 For you shall not bow to another god, for Jehovah whose name is Jealous, He is a jealous God;

This may not sound like a God of love to us. Jealousy is such an "ugly green emotion". This sounds as if God is inconsistant and not the same, from now, and forever. A glimpse into what the Ancient Hebrew writer meant, when he chose such a word, will clear things up.

"Jealous" is the Hebrew "QaNA". Some very ancient writing sheds some insight in how they understood that word. It was written in picture form, like Egyptian heiroglyph. Each symbol, which in our modern alphabet are letters, had meaning.

"Q", the symbol for a rising and setting sun.. To the Hebrew people, the sun gathered the light to it at sunset, and the dark to it at dawn. The rising and setting sun was understood as circling the earth. The meaning of the symbol is "the circling sun which causes the gathering of light and darkness".

Seeds were understood to be the beginning of life from a parent plant, in a continuous, generational cycle. The meaning of the symbol for seed is "a continuation of life from a seed", pronounced "N".

Together, the seed placed before the rising sun, their meaning is "The gathering of materials for the building of a nest for the seeds (eggs)", pronounced "QeN".

"QaNA"/"Jealous" is written with a bull's head (symbol for strength), and then the seed and sun symbols.

When the symbols are combined, we can better understand the communication offered by the author in Exodus 34:14. It is the visual of a bird watching over the eggs and young with "jealousy" (the action, not an emotion), defending them from the enemy, preventing any other bird from entering the nest.

Just as a bird watches over and protects its' nest from predetors, so does God watch over and protect his children from predetors.

Again a word, in this case "jealousy" being removed from being understood abstractly, can offer richness in our understanding what the original authors are trying to communicate.

"Likeness" ("demuth") is "similitude".   Hebrews could see that dogs had offspring after their kind, goats after their kind, and people after their kind.  How could human beings be children of God if they were made of flesh and related to the world through that flesh?  I think first there was a magnification of the perspective of flesh - through the Mosaic Law.  Then there was the revelation of Jesus as he contrasted the flesh understanding of the law with a spiritual understanding.  It demonstrated not necessarily an err of humanity, but a short sightedness.

"Spirit" mind you, was not removed and abstract either.  It is experienced in the heart and is that which flows forth from it.  Like, a lying person had a "spirit of falsehood" and a generous person had a "giving spirit".  There is an overarching "Spirit of God" and God is defined as "love". 

God promised Israel that if she could keep her end of a deal, that she would be "Kings" (having authority - which they will have seen as God himself in them) and "Priests", not to herself, but to others.  She fell short, again bringing to light a short sightedness inherant in every human being.  Jesus kept her part on her behalf, he having "eyes to see".  She inherited what was promised and so the entire world was given a new sight - the old world having passed away.

As humanity had been in the likeness of "Adam" (flesh and blood thinking..see Romans 8:6 for example per "mind of flesh") it would have life in the likeness of the "last Adam", becoming as a "heavenly man" and a "new creation". 

Since the truth is revealed, that is accomplished - Jesus has come to us, God is "all in all" -- but again, I'm just throwing my two cents in, I'm not formulating an argument.  This is my view as I see it - you sure don't have to :-).

Amie

:cloud9: Don't know where I was 9/5/08 when Amie wrote this, but I missed it.....until now. Amie, if you're around, AWESOME POST.  :thumbsup: Blessings....

[micah7:9]

Matthew 20:23  And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father

:cloud9: And it was.....Elijah and Moses.....

Where does the Bible teach this?

[Beloved Servant]

Amen Card. I read that last night.

Interesting to note that while most of the "church world" is so anxious to fly away to heaven they are ignoring the fact that the Lord is calling us to be His priests.

[Beloved Servant]

The law and prophecy stand on either side of the Christ.

[Beloved Servant]

... in the light !

[Molly]

Matthew 20:23  And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father

:cloud9: And it was.....Elijah and Moses.....

Where does the Bible teach this?

3Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
-Mat 17

[micah7:9]

Something to chew on. Thanks