Doomsday 2012: The End of Days

[jabcat]

Not 2012, but more "end of days" talk.  Thoughts?

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2018/04/11/biblical-prophecy-claims-rapture-is-coming-april-23-numerologist-says.html

[MusicLover123]

If only we had an astronomer here to confirm that...

A bit skeptical of that. We can only wait and see, but 99% sure it is false.

[CHB]

Not 2012, but more "end of days" talk.  Thoughts?

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2018/04/11/biblical-prophecy-claims-rapture-is-coming-april-23-numerologist-says.html

I think all of these things will eventually lead up to the return of Christ but when, that is another question.  :dsunny:

CHB

[marie glen]

Not 2012, but more "end of days" talk.  Thoughts?

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2018/04/11/biblical-prophecy-claims-rapture-is-coming-april-23-numerologist-says.html

I've heard a lot about the that.. The astronomy is likely true.. But That view of Revelation chapter 12, imo, is way off..

Oops my kids are here with supper.. We have a date.. In those  famous words "I'll be back" as Rev 12 is one of my favorite Revelationtopics.. "A marvelous sign in the heavens, a woman about to give birth." ....A marvelous sign.. "a virgin will conceive".. aka, Israel.. w12 stars.. more in support.. .

[marie glen]

Not 2012, but more "end of days" talk.  Thoughts?

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2018/04/11/biblical-prophecy-claims-rapture-is-coming-april-23-numerologist-says.html

I've heard a lot about the that.. The astronomy is likely true.. But That view of Revelation chapter 12, imo, is way off..

Oops our kids are here with supper.. We have a date.. In those  famous words "I'll be back" as Rev 12 is one of my favorite Revelation topics.. "A marvelous sign in the heavens, a woman about to give birth." ....A marvelous sign.. "a virgin will conceive".. aka, Israel.. w12 stars.. more in support.. .

The thing is.. we've put revelation in boxes.. preterist, futurist, historist, 7 years - it's not that simple. :laughing7:

Though this whole thing does sound intriguing - I read others references saying Jupiter was in the womb of Virgo for 9 months.. I wonder if that's true..  :Chinscratch: And the moon supposedly at Virgo's feet It is possible with any prophecy, can be repeating.. I do feel some 'urgency' sometimes from the Lord.. or so I think sometimes.. anybody else? Like things are coming down the tube.. surely - for what it's worth - doesn't hurt to have some #1, water on hand for loved ones.. and #2, some sort of food shelved/stored.. #3, some say thick plastic to coat your basement, ceiling and walls - remember the term acid rain? :dontknow: I know Rev says the sun nor heat shall not smite them.. but perhaps preparation may be part of the reason why..? I don't think it lasts as long as popular belief thinks - 45 days - Am I crazy? idk. Dan 12:11,12.. But.. sidetracked a little..

I do think there has been 'signs' on earth and in the heavens - the eclipses on Holy Days of Lev 23 does seem to be worthy of some attention.. but historically, these have occurred before and historical things did occur.. with Israel.. but christianity is also a part of Israel (?) I think there are quite a few things, according to prophecy, which are to occur before the Lord's return.. like a more definite world governing, for one thing.. and war in the middle east? not THE war/Amageddon, which I believe is concurrent with His return..

The apocalyptic part of Revelation begins at chapter 6 - which I believe the rider of a white horse conquering and going forth to continue conquering is the gospel. Each seal continues to the 'end', they are described as their beginning and also as their fullness of progression (ride/gallop) at the 'end'. Obscures much.

Another way the book is delayed as to its clarity is by "inserts" and some switching of scenes.

Revelation 12 is one of the inserts, imo. A total history of the faith on Earth. This chapter is exciting, because of what's in it. As to history. [I love history, the human story.] See if you can find Herod the Great...the inquisitions.. the Mayflower.. (how do prophecy scholars miss all this? ...the inquisitions.. I'll try not to put glaring arrows :laughing7: but i may not be successful.

:2c:
Revelation 12 King James Version (KJV)
12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. - adversarial power

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. - I always want to ask prophecy buffs - "does this ring a bell?" - to devour her child as soon as it was born

5 And she brought forth a man child [[Son of man]] surely? who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child (singular here, not plural) was caught up unto God, and to his throne. (Only One has ascended and I don't think we ascend .. ascended masters.. all that.. very prominent in other faiths.)

Plural - and he who is overcoming, and who is keeping unto the end my works, I will give to him authority over the nations, and he will shepherd them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the potter are broken in pieces--just as I also have received from My Father. Rev 2:26,27

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness [70 a.d. the mantle of the faith now worn by christians] where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. {Here, imo, years.. To the 'Enlightenment'/Age of Reason/the Neo-Classical Era}

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; [and now was] neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 So the great dragon [now] was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time."

The Woman [imo, the faith] Persecuted
13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child.

Christians are grafted into Israel.. so is also Israel.. imo of course

14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly (sail?) into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time [imo, 3.5 centuries] from the presence of the serpent.

15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. (To wash the faith off the face of the Earth.)

16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. [futurist from here :laughing7: ]

17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and (by this time?) have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (The gathering to Armageddon - Rev 16:14,15,16)

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! Behold, your house is left to you desolate! For I say to you, you will not see Me again until you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD.

P.S. I never studied with others.. I prayed to understand.. The way Christianity shares its views and doctrines.. hasn't made me think I should rethink it, just because other ideas are prevalent.. :dontknow:

[jabcat]

 :thumbsup: ml, chb, mg..interesting, pertinent comments.

[sheila]

my :2c:regarding this date setting....1s tthe people who do it  are found to not believe Jesus word's'no-one knows that day or hour.Man trusting over trusting the

word of God always leads to disappointment.I suppose it is our weak human nature...but expectation postponed makes the heartsick..andpeople's hope dashed time and

again by such things is goodfor no-one. that being said, most 'sense'we are living in the finalend days. whoknows..maybe Father is allowingit tohumble the one setting the date

and teach those who are man-followers thatitis best to believeHisson..andHis'word' on things.

   ..buta day andhour we donotthink it..He will come'suddenly' to His temple[yourbody]

[eaglesway]

  Somebody will make a lot of money off this, then when it doesnt happen, they will disappear :laugh:
         
TO AN ISLAND RESORT SOMEWHERE

[lastpost]

With regard to the original post, I suppose that it might be considered a little ignorant not to give some attention to such a convergence of supposed Doomsday predictions or prophesies. That is, unless one has come to the conclusion beforehand that there is no point in wasting good time speculating on such predictions.

As for me personally, there are a number of reasons I give little time to such speculations. One of those reasons is to do with what has happened to me over these latter years regarding the way I experience time: a contradiction in terms because nothing actually happens to the real you, you just become more and more released from the prison house until the swirling mass of change all around is viewed like clouds coming and going – but the Sun has always been shining. For the real me, the only real time is now: again a contradiction in terms because the now does not conform to time.

Deep "within" is the witness (graciously granted by Divinity out of Himself) which does not change with time, but only gets surrounded by concepts, ideas and events which can obfuscate the real witness and make it appear as the body.  For me, it does not make sense to think of tomorrow, or even the past, because it is all now and it never changes from now, it is just one constant, unbroken existence.

Yes, the body ages but the inner being does not age. Yes, to communicate with others then the tool of the mind, now seen for what it is, reciprocates using the common notion of time; but living in the here-and-now means that speculating on some type of future apocalyptic-type event is living in the mental sphere, meaningless, a distraction from "What Is", and, in my opinion, a blurring of the simple message of Christ and indeed of the Person of Jesus Christ. Personally, I "let tomorrow take care of itself", so to speak.

As someone who believes in the consistently loving Divine Nature of the unchanging and eternal Supreme God of all, and also as someone who has had both an unshakable intellectual and experiential belief in the continuity of life throughout adulthood (I understand many on the Tentmaker forum do not associate with this), and, because of this, as someone brought to the feet of Jesus the Christ as the Answer to all questions concerning the Earth life – then naturally my viewpoint on the book of Revelation would be in harmony with these beliefs, i.e. my opinion.

There are as many opinions of the book of Revelation as there are individual souls. Someone will always be able to find in the pages of the Sacred Record, what it is they wish to find as it mirrors what is in the mind. It is a large, rich book, and if someone is determined to find their truth then they will find it. After all, even a stopped clock will be very correct twice in every 24 hour period.

Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"

It is stated at the beginning of the book of Revelation that the book is: "A revelation of* Jesus Christ (Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ)" (Rev 1:1).

* Here the word "of" can mean that the revelation is both by Jesus Christ and it is about the unveiling of Jesus Christ from the existing scriptures – and I believe it means both.

It is also stated that this message is "signified"*.

* (ἐσήμανεν) [Noun: the meaning or idea expressed by a sign or symbol, as distinct from the physical form in which it is expressed];

It is proposed that the book of Revelation is expressed using the signified poetic language of the Bible (in the main, the Old Testament) in order to reveal Jesus Christ Himself to a particular people at a particular time, namely, the early generation of Christians, many of whom were heavily steeped in Judaic culture.

In my opinion, the purpose of the book of Revelation was never meant to be interpreted by the minds of modern-day Christians as some type of end-times prophecy – I do not believe that this was the intention of Jesus Christ.

This signification of Himself - Jesus Christ - in the book of Revelation, was to many who were firmly established in the symbolic and apocalyptic language of the Old Testament scriptures before becoming followers of Jesus Christ – i.e. those who were persecuted and who suffered great tribulation. John specialised in communicating with those of the "circumcision" (Gal.2:9), and the book of Revelation would be understood in the unmistakable form of sacred language by those whose spiritual life was thoroughly acquainted with the Judaic symbolism of their scriptures - whether born into the culture or having converted to it.

The symbology used is not created anew but is reused symbology from the Bible itself. The book of Revelation shows that Jesus Christ was and is the culmination of the Old Testament by drawing parallels from it. It is that simple, there is no need to overdraw or complicate this simplicity.

The following link is a certain potted theme by a reformed futurist, if you will, which makes perfect sense of the book of Revelation in my opinion, and while I don't agree with a couple of the statements made on this web page, I believe that the overall sentiment is correct...

https://mikeblume.com/symbrev.htm

As an example, these parallels are drawn between the book of Ezekiel and the book of Revelation...

1. THRONE VISION - (Rev 4./Ezek 1).
2. THE BOOK (Rev 5/Ezek 2-3)
3. THE PLAGUES (Rev 6:1-8/Ezek 5).
4. Slain Beneath the Altar (Rev. 6:9-11/Ezek. 6)
5. WRATH OF GOD (Rev 6:12-17/Ezek 7).
6. SEAL ON SAINTS' FOREHEADS (Rev 7/Ezek 9)
7. COALS FROM ALTAR (Rev. 8/Ezek 10).
8. NO MORE DELAY (Rev. 10:1-7/Ezek 12).
9. EATING THE BOOK (Rev 10:8-11/Ezek. 2)
11. MEASURING THE TEMPLE (Rev. 11:1-2/Ezek. 40-43)
11. JERUSALEM AND SODOM (Rev. 11:8/Ezek 16)
12. CUP OF WRATH (Rev. 14/Ezek. 23).
13. VINE OF THE LAND (Rev. 14:18-20/Ezek 15)
14. GREAT HARLOT (Rev 17-18/Ezek. 16, 23).
15. LAMENT OVER THE CITY (Rev. 18/Ezek 27)
16. SCAVENGER'S FEAST (Rev. 19/Ezek 39)
17. FIRST RESURRECTION (Rev 20:4-6/Ezek 37).
18 BATTLE WITH GOG AND MAGOG (Rev. 20:7-9/Ezek 38-39)
19. NEW JERUSALEM (Rev 21/Ezek 40-48)
20. RIVER OF LIFE (Rev 22/Ezek 47)

Again, I do not agree with every doctrinal statement on the following website but here is one sensible explanation of the "Lake of Fire" (i.e. fires that destroyed Jerusalem) and its connection with Judaic scripture, which deals logically and scripturally with the apocalyptically-described "death" (i.e. Law system), "devil" (i.e. false accuser), "dogs" (i.e. evil doers) and missing names (i.e. Jewish book of life)...

https://www.anewdaydawning.com/blog-1/2017/2/3/what-was-the-lake-of-fire


Personally, I am satisfied with the revealing of the Person of Jesus Christ in the book of Revelation as it stands without adding anything to the Message of the book – it is His testimony (1), indeed, He said that He had come to fulfil the law, and furthermore He fulfilled everything that was before - in Himself, in His Person (2). And so His testimony is Himself expressed in the Biblical symbology of Revelation: Jesus Christ – both the fulfilment of the Biblical past and the completed work of the Saviour of the world.

Testimony – noun:
(1)      Spoken or written statement that something is true.
(2)      Evidence testifying to something

And that is, in my opinion, the signified Message of the book of Revelation: Simply Jesus, the long-awaited Christ of God, the Messiah, the Saviour of the world, the Redeemer. One can almost hear the thoughts of the writer, if I may perhaps paraphrase: "He has come, it was He in the flesh, can you see, can you see, have faith, be strong, face every tribulation and overcome it steadfastly and with purity, have no fear, you are already saved, He has fulfilled every prophesy for your comfort, He who came to take away your sins. Believe His Promise that you will never, ever see death, be joyous in your troubles, knowing that nothing can harm you, nothing, see the power of the Christ, see His Love, see His overseeing and all-knowing care!".


I mentioned a certain blurring of the understanding of the Love of God both through the cessation of the continuity of life, or through the anticipation of a future apocalyptical-type event. This does not mean that there is no individual judgement - from that nobody is exempt - but I believe that judgement is a set of judgements on all of life which is brought to mind at passing, and the measure will be against the life of Jesus Himself. So my opinion is: Be wise and study the life of Christ, first, middle and last.

The subject of the continuity of life through the love and grace of Christ through whom all beings have been made, where the physical world itself becomes increasingly spiritualised as the sons of God become more manifest through contact with the Spirit and thus gain more control over physical nature, and also, simultaneously to this, where souls leave the physical body and become increasingly spiritualised once having performed their duty in the body according to the way laid down by Christ but now "living according to God in the Spirit", is both straightforward, loving, and in perfect harmony with the unchanging consistent God, compared to ideas where a child of God is disappears somewhere temporarily or is half-conscious under the earth for a designated period of time until some far distant "judgement" - and all the goings-on associated with such doctrines, whether they embody a temporary or eternal state.

I think to myself: What father has not hurried home from work to catch the innocent laughter of his child and to hear the joyful cry of "Daddy" as he walks in the door? What mother has not felt the unbearable tug of pain when her child has been seriously hospitalised for a while and has felt the overwhelming relief when her child is well enough to grace the home once more? What! Then which parent would dream of putting their child into a comatose state for many years out of "love", in order to carry out some erratic and nonsensical plan to better their life?

I think once more to myself: What of the Parent of us all? When the child turns their heart upward towards Him, and His great Heart burns with unbounded joy and relief that, at last, He is being given the love from His child that He has waited for over time unthinkable to the human mind. What! Is it like Love then to send that child into some kind of mindless torpor where the desirous love of His child towards a yearning Father ceases for centuries in order to allow more evil into the world than is already there as a plan of redemption – or some such variation?

Knowledge of the continuity of life brings immediate solace to those who have hitherto gone mourning for their loved ones through lack of explanation, is not a new message, no, it is the original Message of Christ, the Gospel of Love and Light; it is His appearance as man in the flesh and the demonstration of His reappearance after death for the salvation of all, for the healing of all – it is the old Christ Message afresh, renewed, and brought to mind.

I think again to myself: Yes, Love is the Instructor, Christ is the Instructor, God is the Instructor. And in experiential terms, I see all three as One and inseparable – and it is the loving Master, Jesus the Christ, who is the Answer to it all, including the book of Revelation.

These are my opinions.

Peace in Him.

[LittleLambofJesus]

greetings.
For me:
any type end time senerio men come up with will NOT be how it happens, thats just the way God works.

peace
chuckt

Indeed.  :thumbsup:

As my bro P. Eby so eloquently puts it:

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/tablecontents.htm

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/Revelation/rev1.htm

One misconception shared by some is that the Revelation has nothing of importance to say to us. It's considered to be merely a bizarre piece of first-century writing with no relevance for today.
Another wrong idea is that the Revelation is a code book describing a specific outline of history written in advance.

Countless interpreters have tried to "decode" the book from a historical perspective to find all the major world events of the past 1900 years. Others interpret it more literally as a handbook for predicting the cataclysmic events that will bring the final wrath of God and the end of the world.
The claims of Christian groups from the early church to the present — that the Revelation pinpoints the events, personalities, and time periods of "the end" — have all failed. This should be a caution to believers for using the book of Revelation as a predictive handbook.

Other people's interpretation of the book of Revelation is based on the "Pan Theory" — it's all going to pan out in the end! Beloved brethren, the fact is, it's not panning out the way the end-time prognosticators are projecting!

Through the years I have ministered the Word in Bible studies, seminars, and church services of various types. When there has been a question and answer session, or when opportunity was granted for people to request teaching along a particular line, the most often requested subject has been — THE BOOK OF REVELATION!

I have met people who were babes in Christ, carnal Christians whose lives were a mess, they had incredible problems and needs, including deliverance, and instead of prayer or counsel or messages that would help them overcome and grow up in Christ, they wanted me to teach them the book of Revelation! "Yeah, brother, that's for me, lay it on me, I want the book of Revelation!..................
---------------------------------------------------
http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/lb/LB1.htm

"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his heads the names of blasphemy. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Rev. 13:1,8).

According to the Emphatic Diaglott the correct rendering of the latter part of this passage is: "The Book of the Life of the Lamb." Now, what is meant by this term – THE BOOK OF THE LIFE OF THE LAMB? The wise man said, "...of the making of many books there is no end..." (Eccl. 12:12).
The book stores are filled to overflowing today with all types of books dealing with every aspect of earthly life. Even in the church world there are books setting forth every kind of viewpoint relating to God, the Bible, doctrine, Christian experience, and church order. However the subject material of most of these books largely contains a message of religious tradition and spiritual death.

But God is also producing a book – a book containing a message of life. For the past two millenniums God, by His Holy Spirit, has been writing portions of this Book in the minds and hearts of His people........................

[jabcat]

Well, 10 years later....

Any thoughts on a purported recent alliance (or strengthening of) between Russia, Iran, and Turkey?