TWO Lakes of Fire?

[sheila]

Jude 12-14..twice dead Enoch prophesied about them.

[rosered]

Jude 12-14..twice dead Enoch prophesied about them.

Jude 12-25 Christian Standard Bible (CSB)
The Apostates' Doom
12 These people are dangerous reefs at your love feasts as they eat with you without reverence. They are shepherds who only look after themselves. They are waterless clouds carried along by winds; trees in late autumn—fruitless, twice dead and uprooted. 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shameful deeds; wandering stars for whom the blackness of darkness is reserved forever.

14 It was about these that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied: "Look! The Lord comes with tens of thousands of his holy ones 15 to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly concerning all the ungodly acts that they have done in an ungodly way, and concerning all the harsh things ungodly sinners have said against him." 16 These people are discontented grumblers, living according to their desires; their mouths utter arrogant words, flattering people for their own advantage.

17 But you, dear friends, remember what was predicted by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ. 18 They told you, "In the end time there will be scoffers living according to their own ungodly desires." 19 These people create divisions and are worldly, not having the Spirit.

20 But you, dear friends, as you build yourselves up in your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting expectantly for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ for eternal life. 22 Have mercy on those who waver; 23 save others by snatching them from the fire; have mercy on others but with fear, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.

24 Now to him who is able to protect you from stumbling and to make you stand in the presence of his glory, without blemish and with great joy,

  I find that amazing  standing in the presence of HIS GLORY   instead of bowing  down , such as Daniel did   10:15  ???

25 to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, power, and authority before all time, now and forever Amen.

more scripts on the  myriad of angels
Deuteronomy 33:2
He said, "The LORD came from Sinai, And dawned on them from Seir; He shone forth from Mount Paran, And He came from the midst of ten thousand holy ones; At His right hand there was flashing lightning for them.

Isaiah 26:21
For behold, the LORD is about to come out from His place To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; And the earth will reveal her bloodshed And will no longer cover her slain.

Daniel 7:10
"A river of fire was flowing And coming out from before Him; Thousands upon thousands were attending Him, And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him; The court sat, And the books were opened.

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man will come in His Father's glory with His angels, and then He will repay each one according to what he has done.

Matthew 25:31
When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne.

2 Thessalonians 1:7
and to grant relief to you who are oppressed, and to us as well, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels

Hebrews 12:22
Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to myriads of angels


  the Lord of   host ....Sabaoth   the hosts of heaven (in the biblical title "Lord (God) of Sabaoth").
[sab-ee-oth, -awth, sab-ey-, suh-bey-ohth]
Spell  Syllables
Word Origin
noun, (used with a plural verb)
1.
armies; hosts. Rom. 9:29; ...28For the Lord will carry out His sentence on the earth with thoroughness and decisiveness." 29It is just as Isaiah predicted: "Unless the Lord of Hosts had left us descendants, we would have become like Sodom, we would have resembled Gomorrah."

James 5:4.4 Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, are crying out against you, and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts.

[darryl]

an important thing to remember is, Paul says death will be abolished..he doesnt specify 1st or 2nd death (which Paul says is the Lake of Fire)  ..therefore DEATH in its totality, will be done away with = ultimately no more lake of fire, no more 2nd Death. :banana: :dsunny:

[darryl]

There is always more drifting around in my mind; but most I know about this topic can be found here click

Aditionally you may like:
http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/ShepherdsVoice/index.html?page=3_-_the_lake_of_fire.htm
http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/ShepherdsVoice/index.html?page=lake_of_divone_purification.htm

About "no rest" it may have  a deep meaning. If it has, I have no idea what it is.
For me it means God no longer patiently waits for repentance. He's getting down to business without delay.
Plus a refiner heats up a crubicle and keeps going until done (no rest)
It's not like a refiners starts the process then goes home for the weekend and on monday morning he melts the gold again and continues were he left of last friday.

yes !...I like it. Also like how the potter, after he 'destroys' a 'ruined' or unacceptable piece of pottery, 'gets down to business' straightaway and remakes the pottery using the same clay of the ruined pottery, into something acceptable.

Love this brother T !!
  For sure it is all about    JESUS  being a businessman  , all about HIS  FATHERS BUSINESS  !!

  what is my  Fathers is mine     

John 16 The Promise of the Holy Spirit
...14He will glorify Me by taking from what is Mine and disclosing it to you.

15Everything that belongs to the Father is Mine.

That is why I said that the Spirit will take from what is Mine and disclose it to you.

16In a little while you will see Me no more, and then after a little while you will see Me."...

This riddle   ,   What was given , at first was 12  , that made more with interest    to the sum of all   to the full

the true treasures in earthen  vessels     :dsunny: :HeartThrob:
Strong's G2774 - kephalaion
κεφάλαιον
Transliteration

kephalaion

Pronunciation

ke-fä'-lī-on (Key)


Part of Speech

neuter noun
Root Word (Etymology)

From a derivative of κεφαλή (G2776)

TDNT Reference

n/a

Vines

View Entry

Outline of Biblical Usage
the chief or main point, the principal thing

the pecuniary sum total of a reckoning, amount

the principal, capital, as distinguished from the interest

a sum of money, sum   :HeartThrob:

:thumbsup: :banana: :dsunny:

[darryl]

it is stupendous....ALL will be there, in Heaven, worshipping God.....All who are now, in this world, blind and ignorant of Christ....ALL will ultimately accept and be saved, through Christ...ALL the Muslims, Buddists, Hindus, atheists, agnostics etc will ultimately find Christ either now in this world/ existence or in the next.....this is the STAGGERING truth that 'exclusive- istic' religious folk cannot see or grasp....I pray the scales fall from their eyes as it did from mine and they find the Truth.

[marie glen]

let me put it this way...because of WHAT JESUS DID..all mankind have a better resurrection...forwhen the prodigal son was dead and come home..he also recieved

  the BEST ROBE.

When I read this, Sheila, I thought immediately of the resurrection of all those not saved during this life.. The prodigals? For they rise still prodigals, still in their imperfection.. (missing the mark) and the parable of the Father's love, to me, isn't, the prodigal returned, God tormented him for a while and then made a banquet and put the best robe on him..

Of course, the prodigal "returned" to the Father.. But after being awoken from one's grave.. Well, as stubborn as I once was, if I woke up in the presence of the Father and the Son, from my grave (whatever each of us think that is) - finding ourselves now resurrected and before God's Throne.. I have to think I would "believe" and would "repent" and "be reconciled" - The 3 R's - all resurrected, all repent, all reconciled..

I may not be the brightest bulb in the box, but if I woke up in front of God, I'd like to think I'd recognize it as my time to believe and repent.. Which is that process, from the trampled courtyard to the heart of God.. How can Jesus draw all? Because God is that GOOD!

And, He's the source of all good.. that being why Jesus said "why call Me good? There is only One good" - one source of all goodness.. and if Jesus could say that.. wow.. what should our attitude be? :faint:

    :dontknow: just my :2c: :gsmile: God bless!

Without Jesus there wouldn't have been any resurrection.
The wages of sin is very dead, always dead. Jesus paid those wages. And that opened a whole Book of Life...

   :thumbsup: :thumbsup: the result of sin/missing the mark is death..

...opened a whole Book of Life...  :thumbsup:

[marie glen]

and some would take the kingdom by force, if it cannot be done otherwise, but not until our heavenly Father's timing..

I'm unable to quote my stuff here I can but it becomes an unreadable mess.
http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/BitsAndPieces/hebraic_meaning.html
Scroll down about halfway to "Violence in God's Kingdom?"
As a very short summary is this:
force, voilence is a totally wrong translation that leaves out truckloads of symbology.
It means happiness, very eager.
Sheep released out of the pen to storm the green meadows.
It's packed with Good Shepperd stuff.

my idea here was a worldly, even political one.. some would take the kingdom world by force, if it cannot be done otherwise politically, but not until our heavenly Father's timing.. which timing I referred to in an earlier post in this thread.. about mass release of energy (when man split the atom.. now being held back while 144,000 are sealed... but some things (my reference to taking as if by force) better not to write.. like the little scroll (Rev 10) don't write it..

...But that's great insight! I think I have come across it before.. Love having interlinear, etc at my fingertips!

[marie glen]

Rosey answered a part of my riddle.

Rev 22:1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Daniel 7:10 A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him. Thousands upon thousands attended him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The court was seated, and the books were opened.
-> When the flow heaps up you get a lake.


Who is standing in front of the judgment seat, is standing in the river of Life.

   ...Aha!! :thumbsup:

it is stupendous....ALL will be there, in Heaven, worshipping God.....All who are now, in this world, blind and ignorant of Christ....ALL will ultimately accept and be saved, through Christ...ALL the Muslims, Buddists, Hindus, atheists, agnostics etc will ultimately find Christ either now in this world/ existence or in the next.....this is the STAGGERING truth that 'exclusive- istic' religious folk cannot see or grasp....I pray the scales fall from their eyes as it did from mine and they find the Truth.

    :banana: :dsunny: :cloud9:

[sheila]

Hi T..I enjoyed your bits and pieces link.  regarding tremble.....I was just given a few days ago  the understanding of.."once again I will shake the heavens and earth"

  that the 'shaking/trembling"is for the great joy of heaven and earth when He does this.

[WhiteWings]

an important thing to remember is, Paul says death will be abolished..he doesnt specify 1st or 2nd death (which Paul says is the Lake of Fire)  ..therefore DEATH in its totality, will be done away with = ultimately no more lake of fire, no more 2nd Death. :banana: :dsunny:

I see not much difference in the both deaths.
Death isn't part of theFather's creation. It crept in with sin.

The wages of sin is death. If people stop sinning they won't die a literal death and they won't endup in the second death either.
Abolishing one death is impossible because if the literal death is abolished the evil live forever. If only the second death is abolished then the evil go unjudged. The evil never get corrected. The evil never enter heaven.

For me the 2 death's are an unseperateble team, that only gets destroyed when sin no longer exists. And that's what heaven is all about. Well there is more, but it's an key component.

abolishing sin = abolishing death

[WhiteWings]

and some would take the kingdom by force, if it cannot be done otherwise, but not until our heavenly Father's timing..

I'm unable to quote my stuff here I can but it becomes an unreadable mess.
http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/BitsAndPieces/hebraic_meaning.html
Scroll down about halfway to "Violence in God's Kingdom?"
As a very short summary is this:
force, voilence is a totally wrong translation that leaves out truckloads of symbology.
It means happiness, very eager.
Sheep released out of the pen to storm the green meadows.
It's packed with Good Shepperd stuff.

my idea here was a worldly, even political one.. some would take the kingdom world by force, if it cannot be done otherwise politically,

Well, you don't have to worry about that. Do you think the Good Shepherd let's His sheep out of the pen if packs of wolves are prowling around?

[WhiteWings]

Hi T..I enjoyed your bits and pieces link.  regarding tremble.....I was just given a few days ago  the understanding of.."once again I will shake the heavens and earth"

  that the 'shaking/trembling"is for the great joy of heaven and earth when He does this.

Trembling is a massive study (I never started).
When looking carefully it happens often.
Just a few very known ones.
Good trembling at mt Sinai. God want to dwell with His people.
Jesus died on the cross. A trembling/earthquake. It's hard for me to call an event that tortures someone to death is good... but it openend the veil between us and the inner Temple -> That's the curtain that thorn
At a shaking the saints were raised.
Jesus getting out of His tomb involved a quaking too.

People often assume quaking is always a bad thing but above I've shown that's not so.

[marie glen]

Well, you don't have to worry about that. Do you think the Good Shepherd let's His sheep out of the pen if packs of wolves are prowling around?

:thumbsup:
Rev. 7:16 (9:4)"..the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat.."
Psalm 121:5,6 - "..The LORD is your shade..
The sun shall not strike thee by day,
Nor the moon by night."

People often assume quaking is always a bad thing but above I've shown that's not so.

Amen, logic, also tells us, "tremble at His Word" is a good thing.. :cloud9:

...Even the quaking at the very 'end' (peak, culmination)  (great earthquake like never before) when the Earth shakes to and fro.. ("in the day the towers fall", metaphor and literal) It will be the shaking off of untruth and man's system of things and rule.. Off with the old... On with the new! [After all, He resurrects all.. "is the savior of all" / even though (it seems) He is letting things run their tragic course.]

[rosered]

an important thing to remember is, Paul says death will be abolished..he doesnt specify 1st or 2nd death (which Paul says is the Lake of Fire)  ..therefore DEATH in its totality, will be done away with = ultimately no more lake of fire, no more 2nd Death. :banana: :dsunny:

I see not much difference in the both deaths.
Death isn't part of theFather's creation. It crept in with sin.

The wages of sin is death. If people stop sinning they won't die a literal death and they won't endup in the second death either.
Abolishing one death is impossible because if the literal death is abolished the evil live forever. If only the second death is abolished then the evil go unjudged. The evil never get corrected. The evil never enter heaven.

For me the 2 death's are an unseperateble team, that only gets destroyed when sin no longer exists. And that's what heaven is all about. Well there is more, but it's an key component.

abolishing sin = abolishing death

Just what you two shared right here  has opened up a mystery    I have wondered about   for  many many years , of How God does things  a certain way   and Why the Bible  has things written   in  certain ways 

  Just like Paul saying  in   Romans 7   and 8   
It is no longer him  that sins but the sin that dwells in His body  ?  still dealing with his own carnality pertaining to or characterized by the flesh or the body, its passions and appetites; sensual: carnal pleasures. 2. not spiritual; merely human; temporal; worldly: a man of secular, rather carnal, leanings.


  Not even perfected in LOVE yet  but kept this hope alive in Christ doing it for him .

  He was thankful for the mind of Christ  and wants to follow   the royal law  , Loving God first and your fellow man  as yourself .
He was putting all His trust in the Lord Jesus CHRIST   as the Holy Spirit was interceding on his behalf  to finish  the perfect works of the Holy Spirit in him by Gods love  in sending His Son to us .

here is what it says pretty plainly  of waiting on the Lord for deliverance   for the saving of the bodies  to dry up the sin  nature , there is a scripture in Rev 16;12   about  drying up   so the Kings of the East are being prepared  And the sixth messenger did pour out his vial upon the great river, the Euphrates, and dried up was its water, that the way of the kings who are from the rising of the sun may be made ready;    wow!

  23 Not only that, but we ourselves who have the Spirit as the firstfruits—we also groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for adoption, the redemption of our bodies. 24 Now in this hope we were saved, but hope that is seen is not hope, because who hopes for what he sees? 25 Now if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with patience.

26 In the same way the Spirit also helps us in our weakness, because we do not know what to pray for as we should, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with unspoken groanings. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because he intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

and Paul goes on to say  , that   if he had it all  and even if he offered his body to be burned/used up   without LOVE it is of no  use   to even bother   in another place in 1 Corinthians 13


8 Love never ends.

But as for prophecies, they will come to an end;

as for tongues, they will cease;

as for knowledge, it will come to an end.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part,

10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will come to an end.    Do you see all these endings here ?  So it is waiting on the Lord  to perfect us  in   His LOVE   that never ends ..

11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put aside childish things.

12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, as I am fully known. 13 Now these three remain: faith, hope, and love—but the greatest of these is love.

But it is the Lord   Himself that  completes us  at the end of all things ...  wow , never noticed it like this before .        from the children of  the DAY  being taught of the Lord by the Holy Spirit to the revealing of the sons of God  as men .

There is some scripture about the stages and ages of  spiritual growth  of  these in 1 John  2     little children  to young men and fathers   and is always  encouraging   but also with warnings   as it seems  is  always in Gods Word  .
  Just like a two edged Sword  that does divide  and separate    the evil   works from the good  works  and how to  remain in Him by being careful  how we handle the Word of Life  and  to wait on the Lord  to perfect us in His love .     

[WhiteWings]

It's often said we are tempted by demons. That may very well be so but our body is a demon too in a certain way.
Even the holy men of the Bible state they are batteling their own flesh. That means the body they saw in it the mirror is their enemy, because enemies are battled.
I know Scripture also states the body is a Temple but I think that's about the only tiem something positive is writen about a body.

I think the battle rages on until we get a that new battle. Maybe some already totally overcome their body, I certainly haven't. And because even Paul was in constant battle I think nobody really has total victory over his/her body.

:2c:

[sheila]

and turning  the hearts of the fathers unto the children,and the hearts of the children unto the fathers......

and they will all know me when I takeaway all their sin[error/missing the mark off full truth andfull /perfect love.love and understanding is Wisdom from Above..

that new birth/born again from above. babylon/confusion destroyed in the mind/heart of man  the depths widths of JesusChrist[love&truth]Holy spirit.

the coming wolves at the door of the sheepfold that Paul so tearfully knew were coming[not treat the flock with tenderness]spots and blemishes at the love feasts...

sin is a demon crouching at the door[ofyourheart]and his desire is to rule over you,but you must rule over him[thus man ofsin/doctrines of demons sown in the

churches/hearts of the people.]andthe saints[churches] were overcome..the dragon trampling[Daniel]...Laodeacianchurch,spew out ofHismouth[,REV.]

   Comeout ofherMy People!


LOVE AND TRUTH CAN STAND...FAITH HOPE AND LOVE CAN REMAIN..BUT THE GREATEST IS LOVE :2c:

[sheila]

ps T I wrotemy post before I read yours.

[WhiteWings]

LOVE AND TRUTH CAN STAND...FAITH HOPE AND LOVE CAN REMAIN..BUT THE GREATEST IS LOVE :2c:

Is that true?

Isn't love all those things wrapped in one?
Can there be love without truth?
Can there be truth without faith?
Can there be faith without love?

Sorry, I seem to be in a philosophical mood this evening  :laugh:

[sheila]

the adversary covets God's throne/temple[your body/mind/heart]  the battle of armagheddon is for our own body/land.sin inthe flesh is condemned/notflesh....

Godmade man for His spiritto walk anddwell in..buto'satan comes from walking toandfro inthe earth!

formerly in heaven..knownasthe dragonthat cast the stars untothe earth. Inthe garden..when satan took the bodyof a serpent and spoke through it..became known

as original serpent.When possesing the bodies of animals..knownas the beast.when possesing men's bodies[Judas]known as 'man of sin"


  the contrast adversary..is of a different nature than God's. animals become ferocious/wild..men earthly sensual and devilish.you'llknow the tree by it'sfruit.....

although the serpent is more subtil than any beast of the field.

look! all of Israel is not Israel! Jesus said you are allclean..butone..for Judas had a devil...and satan entered his flesh to turn Jesusinformoney

look what goes into the LOF  the beast that mislead them[carnalness inman's flesh]the false-prophet that decieved them...the satan and demons that decieved the entire in

habited earth. :2c: the very things/nature that devours andleads usto our death. thevery things that are oppositionaltoHis Holy righteous nature.

true...there is appearance of 'sin' in the flesh..because 'sin entered"through the weakness ofthe first Adam..it is the corruptible image we bear unto the death

ofour flesh..the only way we can live untoGod[exhibit Hisimage/life]is by deadening these body members.being delivered from thisbody undergoing this death. :2c:

[WhiteWings]

ps T I wrotemy post before I read yours.

You have my permission  :laugh:

[sheila]

 :friendstu:

[marie glen]

Three! 3 lof's!? Why do I ask that? [And this is besides the lof as His consuming fire Spirit..]

It's become my belief the tares - in the parable, it is at "the harvest" which according to 1Cor.15:23 - "they that are Christ's at His coming"

So I believe the wheat is gathered at that time - Jesus' return - that the wheat (metaphor for His followers) are gathered (literal) into His barn (metaphor) at His coming.

That (imo) being true, means the tares (metaphor) will be gathered (literal) into bundles (metaphor of?) to be burned (I believe the tares will be gathered to Armageddon battle. Battle-literal)

And they will be resurrected of course..
(And if not "believing" by end of "the Judgment" (day/age) they will go to the refiners lof.. for ALL must die twice - end of life death and death of carnality. (Which death are believers safe from?/will not be harmed by?)

2nd lof - the one at end of the millennium which consumes those (offspring of natural survivors of Armageddon and the apocalypse) who surround "the city" of believers.. for war!

This too occurs before the 2nd resurrection - the one of all who have lived and have not yet been born again/reconciled. So these ones too.. rise. Which of course (Rev 20) occurs before "the Judgment" ...before Judgment 'day'. "Every knee shall bow, Every tongue confess.." .."ALL the ends of earth will remember and turn to the "LORD.."

3rd lof - the all in all event - "the elements melt w fervant heat.. in which the heavens and earth pass away, but we look for a new heavens and new earth wherein righteousness is to dwell" - "Behold I make ALL things new.."

No more death (incl. lake of).

:Peace2:
PS - consequences/results = 'wrath'?

[WhiteWings]

The resurection at the start of the millenium is saints only. So no LoL there.

I'm not so sure the fervent heat is real or mocking the Greeks.

http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/LoL/Elements.html

[MusicLover123]

The resurection at the start of the millenium is saints only. So no LoL there.

Wasn't that Revelation verse about the dead not being raised until the 1000 years were over added later on though?

And Kingdoms reign over people. What would be the purpose of reigning over already perfect Saints, or over no one? Unless it is some type of training ground...

I think that the usage of fire and light and lightning, etc. should be thought of in relation to each other, not as separate things. Since people's secrets are being revealed, wouldn't the "intense heat" be "intense light?" And their secrets being revealed?

[marie glen]

The resurection at the start of the millenium is saints only. So no LoL there.

Perhaps you misunderstood me.. I was talking about Earthly events.. namely the last battle Armageddon.. Of course thermonuclear did not exist when Ezekiel penned his "prophesies".. And when Jesus gave the Revelation vision to John.. And in the minds of many, even tho it changed so much about the world, it still doesn't exist, is all I can assume..

What I wrote was - um, no, :doh: what I meant to write was - Tares (of the time) gathered to Armageddon so no wonder you didn't get it, I suppose.. tho it seems relatively obvious to me..

I'm not so sure the fervent heat is real or mocking the Greeks.

http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/LoL/Elements.html

And so they believe there are no elements of earth and sky? And yes.. no more Greek 'gods'..

Perhaps the resurrection is parable to confound the Saducees.. (kidding, lol)

    :Peace2:

Berean Study Bible
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and its works will be laid bare.

[[ The Day Of the LORD beginning w/ the trumpets of Rev and ending with the all in all event.. ]]

Berean Literal Bible
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar, and elements will be dissolved, burning with heat, and the earth and the works in it will not be found.

Young's Literal Translation
and it will come -- the day of the Lord -- as a thief in the night, in which the heavens with a rushing noise will pass away, and the elements with burning heat be dissolved, and earth and the works in it shall be burnt up.