On another forum, a member proposed that in the Revelation, chapter 20, there are two Lakes of Fire.
They thought it meant a lot that 20:10 reads, "...cast into the lake of fire and brimstone." Then, in verse 14, it becomes merely, "...cast into the lake of fire." They stated that the different terms meant different Lakes of Fire, one with and one without brimstone. I think it is probably dictated by the numerical needs of the text, a la Panin.
What do you think? :Chinscratch: :Chinscratch: :Chinscratch: :Chinscratch: :Chinscratch:
I bake bread in my kitchen stove that burns with wood and fire.
I bake bread in my kitchen stove that burns with fire.
I bake bread in my kitchen stove.
How many kitchen stoves do I have? 1, 2 or 3?
What are the fuel types of my stove?
What if I told you the first stove runs on wood, the second one on propane and the third one is an electric stove.
I didn't lie. I'm not breaking any grammar rules. But I'm vague or even misleading.
Look here: http://biblehub.com/revelation/19-20.htm
19:20 Lake of fire burning with brimstone.
20:10 Lake of fire and brimstone
20:14 Lake of fire
Are that three different lakes?
The wording of the first two verses is different so it could be a different lake. Maybe God has several identical looking lakes. We can assume such things if we want.
But if compare the first two verse we see that the second verse states where the beast also is. That makes clear it's the same lake.
My point is this; while the wording is different it's the same lake.
The third verse is just shorthand.
I think proof for that can be found here
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
In that verse the sinners go into the same lake of the beast and his buddies are. Or should I assume God has two identical lakes? Or maybe ten? That's just reading things that are very likely not implied
The fuel of the lake is brimstone.
But let's zoom in a little more....
Let's assume that there are really two lakes as the person you refer to claims.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
'the dead' and 'death' is not the same thing.
'the dead' are dead people and are not said to be cast into the lake of fire (without mentioning brimstone)
'death' is cast in the fire.
Personally I'm not sure what death is. I keep it very short to not derail this thread, but I must mention it for completeness.
The NT mentions the highly pagan Hades. Hades is both the name of a god and the name of his kingdom, the realm of the dead. The underworld. Maybe in some way realated to rev 9:11 Apollyon/Abaddon/Angel of Death/Destroyer/lord of the bottomless pit.
If the above is true, Hades belongs in the same place as the beast is. That's fire and brimstone.
So the dead people are judged but this set of verses doesn't state where they will be send. I think it's the sheep and goat judgment of Matthew. The dead are judged by their works in both judgements.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Both are the second death. But the first verse leaves out the brimstone part.
So.... all that said there is just one lake.
we know HE APPEARS AGAIN,APART FROMSIN[THE PRINCE OF THIS WORLD HAS NOTHING IN ME] He seperates us from all our sin..
did we not know He was the Lamb of God that takes away allsin?what does Hedowith it..He places it onthe scapegoat.....thus
Him seperating the people fromsin[the LOF for the cursed PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS..the sinnersare afraid..whocandwell
with constantburnings]sinis ademon.Under the law[written for the lawless one]covenant curse fordisobedience/rebellious=angels
that first sinned inheaven/werejudged andthrown out[bound to this earth like a ball andchain..and awaiting their judgement] double
death/twice dead...they are the tares that the enemy sowed[God plantedgoodseed[wheat]inthe earth. They alone areburned...
ascribe all sin unto Azazael.........confess all the people's sins onto the head of the scapegoat.Pattern :2c:
Hi White Wings, I sure do enjoy reading your posts. I agree :iagree:
CHB
Quote from: Lazarus Short on February 10, 2018, 01:53:37 AM
On another forum, a member proposed that in the Revelation, chapter 20, there are two Lakes of Fire.
They thought it meant a lot that 20:10 reads, "...cast into the lake of fire and brimstone." Then, in verse 14, it becomes merely, "...cast into the lake of fire." They stated that the different terms meant different Lakes of Fire, one with and one without brimstone. I think it is probably dictated by the numerical needs of the text, a la Panin.
What do you think? :Chinscratch: :Chinscratch: :Chinscratch: :Chinscratch: :Chinscratch:
i think its far too literal interpretation
I think it can be literal in the sense of our bodies are made up of 10 things most would never consider important when God created mankind .Honestly I do not think we cannot begin to know everything as it really is .... But we love to learn so I
found this article an extremely interesting find by accident . from being a bit ill.
https://www.thoughtco.com/elemental-composition-of-human-body-603896 (https://www.thoughtco.com/elemental-composition-of-human-body-603896)
Sulphur is number 8 on this list Sulfur's abundance is 0.20% to 0.25% in the human body.
Uses
Sulfur is an important component of amino acids and proteins. It's present in keratin, which forms skin, hair, and nails. It's also needed for cellular respiration, allowing cells to use oxygen.
number one 1 was oxygen 2 carbon , 3 hydrogen, 4 nitrogen , 5 calcium , 6 phosphorus , 7 potassium 8 sulfur , 9 sodium/salt 10 magnesium ...
Crystals of the nonmetallic element sulfur. Smithsonian Institution
Science
Science
Chemistry
Periodic Table
Basics
Chemical Laws
Molecules
Projects & Experiments
Scientific Method
Biochemistry
Physical Chemistry
Biology
Physics
Geology
Astronomy
Weather & Climate
by Anne Marie Helmenstine, Ph.D.
Updated March 11, 2017
Sulfur Basic Facts
Atomic Number: 16
Symbol: S
Atomic Weight: 32.066
Discovery: Known since prehistoric time.
Electron Configuration: [Ne] 3s2 3p4
Word Origin: Sanskrit: sulvere, Latin: sulpur, sulphurium: words for sulfur or brimstone
Isotopes: Sulfur has 21 known isotopes ranging from S-27 to S-46 and S-48. Four isotopes are stable: S-32, S-33, S-34 and S-36. S-32 is the most common isotope with an abundance of 95.02%.
Properties: Sulfur has a melting point of 112.8°C (rhombic) or 119.0°C (monoclinic), boiling point of 444.674°C, specific gravity of 2.07 (rhombic) or 1.957 (monoclinic) at 20°C, with a valence of 2, 4, or 6. Sulfur is a pale yellow, brittle, odorless solid. It is insoluble in water, but soluble in carbon disulfide. Multiple allotropes of sulfur are known.
Uses: Sulfur is a component of gunpowder. It is used in the vulcanization of rubber. Sulfur has applications as a fungicide, fumigant, and in the making of fertilizers. It is used to make sulfuric acid. Sulfur is used in the making of several types of paper and as a bleaching agent. Elemental sulfur is used as an electrical insulator. The organic compounds of sulfur have many uses. Sulfur is an element that is essential for life. However, sulfur compounds can be highly toxic. For example, small amounts of hydrogen sulfide can be metabolized, but higher concentrations can quickly cause death from respiratory paralysis.
Hydrogen sulfide quickly deadens the sense of smell. Sulfur dioxide is an important atmospheric pollutant.
Sources: Sulfur is found in meteorites and native in proximity to hot springs and volcanoes. It is found in many minerals, including galena, iron pyrite, sphalerite, stibnite, cinnabar, Epsom salts, gypsum, celestite, and barite.
Sulfur also occurs in petroleum crude oil and natural gas. The Frasch process may be used to obtain sulfur commercially. In this process, heated water is forced into wells sunk into salt domes in order to melt the sulfur. The water is then brought to the surface.
Element Classification: Non-Metal
Sulfur Physical Data
Density (g/cc): 2.070
Melting Point (K): 386
Boiling Point (K): 717.824
Appearance: tasteless, odorless, yellow, brittle solid
Atomic Radius (pm): 127
Atomic Volume (cc/mol): 15.5
Covalent Radius (pm): 102
Ionic Radius: 30 (+6e) 184 (-2e)
Specific Heat (@20°C J/g mol): 0.732
Fusion Heat (kJ/mol): 1.23
Evaporation Heat (kJ/mol): 10.5
Pauling Negativity Number: 2.58
First Ionizing Energy (kJ/mol): 999.0
Oxidation States: 6, 4, 2, -2
Lattice Structure: Orthorhombic
Lattice Constant (Å): 10.470
CAS Registry Number: 7704-34-9
Sulfur Trivia:
Pure sulfur has no smell. The strong smell associated with sulfur should actually be attributed to compounds of sulfur.
Brimstone is an ancient name for sulfur that means "burning stone". like a burning heart and lively stone maybe ?
Molten sulfur is red.
Sulfur burns with a blue flame in a flame test.
Sulfur is the seventeenth most common element in the Earth's crust.
Sulfur is the eighth most common element in the human body.
Sulfur is the sixth most common element in seawater.
Gunpowder contains sulfur, carbon and saltpeter.
Sulfur or Sulphur?: The 'f' spelling of sulfur was originally introduced in the United States in the 1828 Webster dictionary. Other English texts kept the 'ph' spelling. The IUPAC formally adopted the 'f' spelling in 1990.
References: Los Alamos National Laboratory (2001), Crescent Chemical Company (2001), Lange's Handbook of Chemistry (1952), CRC Handbook of Chemistry & Physics (18th Ed.) International Atomic Energy Agency ENSDF database (Oct 2010)
Quiz: Ready to test your sulfur facts knowledge? Take the Sulfur Facts Quiz.
Rosey, make a similar lenghty post about what brimstone was used for in ancient times (and even right today.
Then you may have made the best UR post in this thread.... :declare:
ahhh, some absolutely literalists here, I see....should we take the Revelation utterly literally ?...after all, it's Apocolyptic literature which in Jewish writings tended to be non- literal. :dontknow:I tend too be not too dogmatic with stuff that's still unknowable at this stage. :Peace2:
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 11, 2018, 06:31:48 PM
Rosey, make a similar lenghty post about what brimstone was used for in ancient times (and even right today.
Then you may have made the best UR post in this thread.... :declare:
You have some great studies already on that WW and on some other threads . :thumbsup:
Quoteahhh, some absolutely literalists here, I see....should we take the Revelation utterly literally ?...after all, it's Apocolyptic literature which in Jewish writings tended to be non- literal. :dontknow:I tend too be not too dogmatic with stuff that's still unknowable at this stage. :Peace2:
Dear Bro Daryll
I have found everyone and everything has some hidden truth in it ,,, God has made everything glorify Him right down to the tiniest speck and cell to the vast beyond ....
It is impossible to judge anything as right or wrong , Just GOD is in everything if we are willing to look , ask , seek and knock , learn and listen and sit at Jesus feet ..
:dsunny:
Quote from: rosered on February 11, 2018, 04:42:18 PM
by Anne Marie Helmenstine, Ph.D.
Element Classification: Non-Metal
Sulfur Physical Data
Density (g/cc): 2.070
Melting Point (K): 386
Boiling Point (K): 717.824
Appearance: tasteless, odorless, yellow, brittle solid
Atomic Radius (pm): 127
Atomic Volume (cc/mol): 15.5
Covalent Radius (pm): 102
Ionic Radius: 30 (+6e) 184 (-2e)
Specific Heat (@20°C J/g mol): 0.732
Fusion Heat (kJ/mol): 1.23
Evaporation Heat (kJ/mol): 10.5
Pauling Negativity Number: 2.58
First Ionizing Energy (kJ/mol): 999.0
Oxidation States: 6, 4, 2, -2
Lattice Structure: Orthorhombic
Lattice Constant (Å): 10.470
CAS Registry Number: 7704-34-9
Okay, here's my beef with Dr. Helmenstine:
Stating the lattice constant of Sulfur to be 10.470 as fact, in my opinion, is pretty presumptuous!
(I don't know how they let her get away with this. Just because she's got a Ph.D. after her name?) :laugh:
Pat
QuoteOkay, here's my beef with Dr. Helmenstine:
Stating the lattice constant of Sulfur to be 10.470 as fact, in my opinion, is pretty presumptuous!
(I don't know how they let her get away with this. Just because she's got a Ph.D. after her name?) :laugh:
Pat
:LH: :laughing7: :laugh: Good one PAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :icon_jokercolor:
..the beast and false prophet in the lake is (imo) institutions of man active at the time of His return (and now too) ..a world governing beast/body Rev 13:1-10; and a false prophet/teacher/teaching which has caused a falling away of western civilization from the faith, it once was called christendom..
But, I'm looking forward to reading the more scientific posts in this thread! Even if I don't understand them :laughing7:
I also think the LOF is the refining process which occurs on 'day' of Judgment, though I used to think it was after Judgment 'Day' but none would be left not "believing"/written in the book by end of that day.. I still kind of waffle back and forth between the two views..
:Peace2: a little off topic? :footmouth:
Quote from: rosered on February 11, 2018, 07:53:26 PM
QuoteOkay, here's my beef with Dr. Helmenstine:
Stating the lattice constant of Sulfur to be 10.470 as fact, in my opinion, is pretty presumptuous!
(I don't know how they let her get away with this. Just because she's got a Ph.D. after her name?) :laugh:
Pat
:LH: :laughing7: :laugh: Good one PAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :icon_jokercolor:
:iagree: :mrflo: :mlaugh:
Brimstone
is a 2016 western thriller film written and directed by Martin Koolhoven, starring Dakota Fanning, Guy Pearce, Kit Harington, and Carice van Houten. It is an international production, although mostly Dutch. It was selected to compete for the Golden Lion at the 73rd Venice International Film Festival on September 3...
:doh: just kidding!
brim·stone
ˈbrimˌstōn/Submit
nounarchaic
sulfur.
Is that true?
brimstone - Wiktionary
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/brimstone
From Middle English brimston, bremston, corrupted forms of brinston, brenston, bernston, from Old English brynstān ("brimstone", literally "burn-stone"), equivalent to brian + stone, or burn + stone. Cognate with Scots brunstane ("brimstone"), Icelandic brennisteinn ("sulfur, brimstone"), German Bernstein ("amber").
Brimstone (missile) - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brimstone_(missile)
Brimstone is an air-launched ground attack missile developed by MBDA for Britain's Royal Air Force. It was originally intended for "fire-and-forget" use against mass formations of enemy armour, using a millimetric wave (mmW) active radar homing seeker to ensure accuracy even against moving targets.
Unit cost: (Dual Mode Variant); £105,000/unit; ... Warhead: HEAT tandem warhead
Steering system: Flight control surfaces Used by: Royal Air Force; Royal Saudi Air Force
:mshock:
The U.K. Will Attack ISIS With a Missile the U.S. Could Only Dream Of
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/.../brimstone-missile-uk-david-cameron-i...
Dec 4, 2015 - While American forces fire the trusty Hellfire, British jets are going to drop the precision Brimstone missile on ISIS forces in Syria. ... While the British Parliament was debating this week whether to join in airstrikes against ISIS in Syria, one weapon was mentioned repeatedly ...
British Brimstone Missile in Action - A Tank's Worst Nightmare
Whether Brimstone is any more accurate than Hellfire is a matter of debate. Brimstone can, however, be fired from fast jets, something that Hellfire is not designed for, against targets twelve miles away. It is also claimed to hit targets moving at up to 70 mph using the radar mode.Dec 4, 2015
-------------
(brimstone compared to thermonuclear)
Nuclear War and the Great Tribulation - End Times Truth
https://endtimestruth.com › World War III
Certainly it is possible that the fire and brimstone will be miraculously created and directed upon the countries which attack Israel as a judgment; however, with the development of nuclear weapons in our time, I am now convinced that the fire won't be supernaturally created, but will be preternaturally produced from man's ...
Fire, Brimstone, and Pillars of Smoke - End Times Truth
https://endtimestruth.com › WP Edit Snidget
The prophets said that one of the primary characteristics of this time would be the appearance of huge pillars of smoke. Is it just a coincidence that in our time nuclear weapons have been developed that can destroy the world and have as their most recognizable characteristic, huge mushroom clouds consisting of vast pillars ...
:Chinscratch: ..thinks like me!
Fire and brimstone - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_and_brimstone
The breath of God, in Isaiah 30:33, is compared to brimstone: "The breath of Jehovah, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it." Fire and brimstone frequently appear as agents of divine wrath throughout the Book of Revelation culminating in chapters 19–21, wherein Satan and the ungodly are cast into a lake of fire burning ...
...Brimstone, a sulfurous rock that burns with fire
I agree with Rosie! burns the dross off the stony heart.. melts it!
...if only 1 gram of matter (0.001 kg) was totally converted into energy it would give the equivalent of any one of the following measures of energy or heat (from Wikipedia):
E = mc2 = (0.001 kg)(8.98 x 1016 m2/s2) =
the equivalent energy released by the complete combustion of one of the following:
21.5 kilotons of TNT (≈21 KT) or {um, this is kind of small these days..}
568,000 U.S. gallons of gasoline
:mshock: oy.
p.s. - I've never understood E=mc2 but this site says its the mass times the speed of light squared.. um.. altho I don't remember what squared is..
p.s.s. - did I really post four times in this thread? :mshock:
I was thinking.. if anything, it would be 3 lakes of fire! But that would be.. [1]a lake of fire (fiery elements) called armageddon/last battle; [2]the fire that comes down from the heavens and consumes those who surround the Millennium City "after the thousand years" has ended / Satan having been released, but before the 2nd resurrection; and [3] the notorious one in Revelation 20, into which death and the grave are cast.. And since it's the 2nd "death".. :Chinscratch: It's like the image of a snake consuming its own tail? :JCThink:
Quote from: marie glen on February 12, 2018, 03:19:58 AM
...if only 1 gram of matter (0.001 kg) was totally converted into energy it would give the equivalent of any one of the following measures of energy or heat (from Wikipedia):
E = mc2 = (0.001 kg)(8.98 x 1016 m2/s2) =
the equivalent energy released by the complete combustion of one of the following:
21.5 kilotons of TNT (≈21 KT) or
568,000 U.S. gallons of gasoline
:mshock: oy.
p.s. - I've never understood E=mc2 but this site says its the mass times the speed of light squared.. um.. altho I don't remember what squared is..
To take a sqare of a number is to multiply it by itself. This is because multiplying a number by itself is called "squaring a number.
e.g. 3 squared is 9 (3X3)
e.g. 7 squared is 49 (7X7)
By far, Einstein's best-known equation is "E=mc2 - energy equals mass times the velocity of light squared." According to this equation, any given amount of mass is equivalent to a certain amount of energy, and vice versa.
i.e. speed of light is 6.706e+8 (8th power) in mph or The speed of light in a vacuum is 186,282 miles per second.
Speed of light squared is 34700983524.
How incredible is the mind of God. :dsunny: :thumbsup:
Are "Jesus the Lamb of God" and "Jesus the Son of God" also two different persons?
I would say yes following the logic of that author... :Chinscratch:
hmmmn brings tomind..'you used to walk about amongst the stones of fire.Urim and thummin were referred to 'stones offire"
'Ihave come fromgoing to andfro inthe earth. Lively stones etc stones...destroy this temple[lively stones] andonthe thirdday
I shall raiseit.thinking of Solomon and the commissioningof Hiram to fell trees and be hewers of stones for the'assembling' of
Solomonstemple.Men as trees/plantingofGod/trees of righteousness..andlively[spiritual]stones..
also,this...Iwillpickthemus like jewels[els true jews?circumcized inheart[spirit oflove]...just brain storming...
Mens as trees I know. That means man of importance. High ranking men. Rightous men. The common people are grass. Isa 61:4
Just to be clear I was sarcastic when I said 2 Jesus'
Jesus goes by many names like Jesus the Bread of Life or Jesus the Good Shepherd. All totally different spelling but exactly the same person.
Iknow,Tony..that wasn't directed at you..I had been perusing the whole thread..and those thoughts come up. :friendstu:
:2c: some scriptural reasoning I believe God/Jesus will not burn mankind in the LOF for even alittle while.It is appointedONCE
forman todie. Isaaih 66;23 24 From one new moon to another and from one Sabbath unto another ALL mankind will come and
bow done before me,says the Lord. Andthey will GO OUT AND LOOK UPON the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me..
2Peter 1;19-21 and we have the wordsof the prophets made more certain..and you will do well to pay attention untoit,
as light shining in a dark place,until the day dawns and a morning star rises in your hearts.Above all,you must understand
that no prophecy of scripture came about by the prophets own interpretation. For prophecy never had it's origen in the will
of man.,but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy spirit.
God spokethrough Isaaih..and Holy spirit through Peter. Those two texts undo the LOF for man.[Jesus isour Sabbath...the righteous
flesh rests in the grave/returns in stillness tothe dust no longer a slave untosin.[freegift untomen of eternal life....spirit return unto
God.
Luke 12;4-5 I tellyou my friends..do not be afraid of those who kill the body andthen can do nomore[appointedfor all men to die
once then the resurrection[I AM the resurrection/as we have allbore the image of the corrupt so,too shall we ALLbear the image
BUT......I will show you whom you should fear Fear Him who after the killing of the body..has power to throw you into hell[2nd
death/bottomless pit/abyss/LOF] Understanding that Jesus was preaching unto the fallen angels bound/imprisoned here as
well as mankind..and thatthere are two edges of the sword/Word of God,helps. there is the righteousness salvation edge..
and the judgement/condemnation edge. God has concluded all under sin. Lightening is for man/the thunder goes unto
the devil.
Mark 9;43-49 CAUSING TO SIN..if your hand cause you to sin cut it off.It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two
hands to go into hell,where the fire never goes out. And if your foot cause you to sin,cut it off..it is better for you to enter
life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to sin,pluck it out.
Referring to lost body member that causes death..the man of sin...son of perdition[cutting off] the only one lost.
the one whose works are wicked[gives his sons a serpent when they ask for bread.....makes their feet to wander
puts beams in thier eyes[blinds/accuses/tempts/decieves/causes of stumblings etc]
Jesus takes away all their sin.......Strong man[raised up in power and incorruption] God's love is as strong as death[sin's wages]
the goat willcarry onitself alltheir sins unto a solitary place[cut off];and the man shall release it in thedesert.Azazel's lot.
the Love of God/Spirit of God/Word of God come in flesh..bound up the strongman[prince of this world that we were bound
up in sin/rebellion/disobedience with/our enemy that was stronger than us[weakness] Jesus come like a thief in the night....
and took away from satan what he thought he had..a host body in man.
there are many other spiritualprinciples that alsomakeme believe it..parablesetc.
Sulfur is used to treat parasitic infections, like worms, and to treat skin conditions and infections. I used sulfur topically on my skin and scalp in the past and it works great.
Sulfur can be burned to fumigate for germs and mold etc.
So I'm thinking fire and brimstone—aka sulfur—is to purify. The fire is not to burn the person being purified, but to burn the sulfur, which turns it to a gas that purifies.
Am I onto something with this thinking??
Not something. You struck the very core meaning of the symbology.
Or perhaps a better expression you struck gold :banana:
Part of the gold refining process is adding sulfur to the molten gold to purge it of impurities. Click (https://www.911metallurgist.com/blog/sulphur-refining-gold)
When sulfur is added it binds itself to impurities, forms sulphides that float to the surface where it can be easily removed.
The process cause smoke.
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.
As we shall see in section C1 torment is actually a word meaning testing.
So it's the smoke of refining gold. Yet another reference to purification (of gold)
Brimstone is another reference to purification.
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 12, 2018, 09:07:15 PM
Not something. You struck the very core meaning of the symbology.
Or perhaps a better expression you struck gold :banana:
Part of the gold refining process is adding sulfur to the molten gold to purge it of impurities. Click (https://www.911metallurgist.com/blog/sulphur-refining-gold)
When sulfur is added it binds itself to impurities, forms sulphides that float to the surface where it can be easily removed.
The process cause smoke.
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.
As we shall see in section C1 torment is actually a word meaning testing.
So it's the smoke of refining gold. Yet another reference to purification (of gold)
Brimstone is another reference to purification.
Quote from: GodIsLove on February 12, 2018, 08:53:45 PM
Sulfur is used to treat parasitic infections, like worms, and to treat skin conditions and infections. I used sulfur topically on my skin and scalp in the past and it works great.
Sulfur can be burned to fumigate for germs and mold etc.
So I'm thinking fire and brimstone—aka sulfur—is to purify. The fire is not to burn the person being purified, but to burn the sulfur, which turns it to a gas that purifies.
Am I onto something with this thinking??
YES !!! It sure seems we are made up of all this elements , being tested by the FIRE /WORD /TRUTH/GOLD
What is gold in the bible ?Gold's Value in Biblical Times.
Biblical records indicate that gold and silver were the first and oldest form of money.
The first mention of gold in the Bible is in Genesis (2:12 ), "And the gold of that land is good; bdellium and onyx stone are there."
Buy of me the gold Rev 3 To the Church in Laodicea
...17You say, 'I am rich; I have grown wealthy and need nothing.'
But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked.
18I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich,
white garments so that you may be clothed and your shameful nakedness not exposed,
and salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.
19 Those I love, I rebuke and discipline. Therefore be earnest and repent....
made me think;" the gas that purifies"..and God saying..Iwillcover the heavenswith darkness when I SNUFF YOU OUT
Rev 9;17 redfire/blue/smoke/yellow sulpher..killing athirdof mankind[outer court fleshbody ofman/put todeath inthe flesh.
their tailslikesnakeswith which they inflictinjury[appointed to die once]first resurrection not harmedof2nddeath.
why we reckon ourbodygood as dead because of sin
which brings me to LOF as secound death[allconsuming/TRUE ETERNAL DEATH versus the appearance ofdeath in the flesh of manthat
returns unto dust whilst the spirit returns unto the Father.]a TASTE[appointedonce] versus thefullness?
we tasted death[ate of tokogae]but the goodness ofGodwaswith us.Grace....notcounting our sins against us. though Iwillnotleave
you entirely unpunished....
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 12, 2018, 09:07:15 PM
Not something. You struck the very core meaning of the symbology.
Or perhaps a better expression you struck gold :banana:
Part of the gold refining process is adding sulfur to the molten gold to purge it of impurities. Click (https://www.911metallurgist.com/blog/sulphur-refining-gold)
When sulfur is added it binds itself to impurities, forms sulphides that float to the surface where it can be easily removed.
The process cause smoke.
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.
As we shall see in section C1 torment is actually a word meaning testing.
So it's the smoke of refining gold. Yet another reference to purification (of gold)
Brimstone is another reference to purification.
Great! Thanks! It's all coming together! It's one thing to think the fire is for purification but it's another to really truly see it as truth and how it all relates to the actual words of the Bible.
Is the "no rest" during the process of testing/purifying a reference to them not yet being in Christ?
He said, "My presence shall go with you, and I will give you rest.
~Exodus 33:14
My soul finds rest in God alone; my salvation comes from him. He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken.
~Psalm 62:1-2
My soul finds rest in God alone; my salvation comes from him. He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken.
~Psalm 62:1-2
So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God's rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest.
~Hebrews 4:9-11
Blessed are those who die in the Lord from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, they are blessed indeed, for they will rest from their hard work; for their good deeds will follow them.
~Revelation 14:13
There is always more drifting around in my mind; but most I know about this topic can be found here click (http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/LoL/index.html)
Aditionally you may like:
http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/ShepherdsVoice/index.html?page=3_-_the_lake_of_fire.htm
http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/ShepherdsVoice/index.html?page=lake_of_divone_purification.htm
About "no rest" it may have a deep meaning. If it has, I have no idea what it is.
For me it means God no longer patiently waits for repentance. He's getting down to business without delay.
Plus a refiner heats up a crubicle and keeps going until done (no rest)
It's not like a refiners starts the process then goes home for the weekend and on monday morning he melts the gold again and continues were he left of last friday.
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 13, 2018, 06:50:08 AM
There is always more drifting around in my mind; but most I know about this topic can be found here click (http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/LoL/index.html)
Aditionally you may like:
http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/ShepherdsVoice/index.html?page=3_-_the_lake_of_fire.htm
http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/ShepherdsVoice/index.html?page=lake_of_divone_purification.htm
About "no rest" it may have a deep meaning. If it has, I have no idea what it is.
For me it means God no longer patiently waits for repentance. He's getting down to business without delay.
Plus a refiner heats up a crubicle and keeps going until done (no rest)
It's not like a refiners starts the process then goes home for the weekend and on monday morning he melts the gold again and continues were he left of last friday.
yes !...I like it. Also like how the potter, after he 'destroys' a 'ruined' or unacceptable piece of pottery, 'gets down to business' straightaway and remakes the pottery using the same clay of the ruined pottery, into something acceptable.
Quote from: darryl on February 13, 2018, 08:29:53 AM
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 13, 2018, 06:50:08 AM
There is always more drifting around in my mind; but most I know about this topic can be found here click (http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/LoL/index.html)
Aditionally you may like:
http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/ShepherdsVoice/index.html?page=3_-_the_lake_of_fire.htm
http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/ShepherdsVoice/index.html?page=lake_of_divone_purification.htm
About "no rest" it may have a deep meaning. If it has, I have no idea what it is.
For me it means God no longer patiently waits for repentance. He's getting down to business without delay.
Plus a refiner heats up a crubicle and keeps going until done (no rest)
It's not like a refiners starts the process then goes home for the weekend and on monday morning he melts the gold again and continues were he left of last friday.
yes !...I like it. Also like how the potter, after he 'destroys' a 'ruined' or unacceptable piece of pottery, 'gets down to business' straightaway and remakes the pottery using the same clay of the ruined pottery, into something acceptable.
Love this brother T !!
For sure it is all about JESUS being a businessman , all about HIS FATHERS BUSINESS !!
what is my Fathers is mine
John 16 The Promise of the Holy Spirit
...14He will glorify Me by taking from what is Mine and disclosing it to you.
15Everything that belongs to the Father is Mine.
That is why I said that the Spirit will take from what is Mine and disclose it to you.
16In a little while you will see Me no more, and then after a little while you will see Me."...
This riddle , What was given , at first was 12 , that made more with interest to the sum of all to the full
the true treasures in earthen vessels :dsunny: :HeartThrob:
Strong's G2774 - kephalaion
κεφάλαιον
Transliteration
kephalaion
Pronunciation
ke-fä'-lī-on (Key)
Part of Speech
neuter noun
Root Word (Etymology)
From a derivative of κεφαλή (G2776)
TDNT Reference
n/a
Vines
View Entry
Outline of Biblical Usage
the chief or main point, the principal thing
the pecuniary sum total of a reckoning, amount
the principal, capital, as distinguished from the interest
a sum of money, sum :HeartThrob:
there is averygood article named'the mystical sea of bronze"along with Psalms ch 1.water and fire..first and secounddeath...relating
the bronze sea..with the exodus through the red sea..to the Promised land[heavenly promisedland.
the lavers....are female ministering angels..that wash the saints feet/hands...as resovoiurs of the word..women's mirrors shows
they function as Jesuswave-breastportion. though you pass through the water and fire..[flood of Noah's day/world stored up forfire]
you willnotbe harmed.[the CHRI[y]STAL[L} SEA..nolonger looking darkly..fortheflesh veil/shroud removed.
the LOF IS....the secound death.if the same spirit of Christ be in you...the first resurrection is yours..and God pours
out His spirit on all flesh....
hands and feet[wicked works of the devil put to death] walk fully in the spirit at all times..and perfectly do His will...nocause for
stumbling or a serpent in our hand.
Come! Ye who are Blessed!
Psalms ch 1....Blessed is the man who does not walk inthe counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners[bow andconfess]
or sit in the seat of mockers[he sits in the temple andshows himself he isgod] Buthis delightis in the law ofthe Lord[love]
and onHis law[love] he meditates day and night.Heislike a tree planted by streams of water,which yields its fruit in season[Rev22;2]
and whoseleaf does not wither[heals the nations] whatever he does prospers[the work oftheir handsmy chosen ones will use tothe
full] Notsothe wicked! they are likechaff the wind blows away[perish inthe red sea/princeofthis world/2nd death LOF]
Therefore the wicked will notstandin the judgement,norsinners inthe assemblyof the righteous[man with free gift ofrighteousness/
eternal life] Forthe LORD WATCHES OVER THE WAY OF THE RIGHTEOUS..But the way of the wicked willperish. :2c:
I wonder if "Second death" should be read in conjunction with "Born Twice, Die Once".
Granted the second part doesn't come straight from the Bible. It can of course be argued it's in any shape or form in the Bible.
First of all we shouldn't view it to literal. Many very good Christians died. Literally.
Actually it's a fact they died twice.
They died the literal death. And before that they died what many Christians call "died to self", the final step before being reborn in Christ/as a Christian.
The unbeliever dies a second death in the Lake.
So could it be that both believer and unbeliever die twice and are reborn twice?
Only the order is changed.
Believer: Born -> Finds Jesus -> Symbolic death -> Reborn -> Literal death -> Heaven
Unbeliever: Born -> Literal death -> Find Jesus in the Lake -> Symbolic death -> Reborn -> Heaven
:dsunny:
well..what's born of the spirit is spirit[as God's wheat[spirit seed]sown inthe earth[falltothe earth anddie] wemust be born againfrom above
or[gathered in the barn/storehouse ofheaven]orborn again of avirgin[144,00o] breasts ofheaven[wavebreast]born/die/born.
nowthe tare seedisbut the corruptseed..andhasnolife init[theangelsasked..from whence comethetares/death/cloudswithout water[nolife]
twice dead...like Reuben thatdefiled his Father's bed..is satan..defiling what is Holy unto theLord.bed/rest.
tare seed is death...sin seed kills..and this seed in flesh is condemned/judged once/condemned whencast out fromheaven..awaiting
it'ssecound death by fire[consuming]
Michael[who is like God?]warredwith these tares[satanandhis angels]andthrewthem out..because they are not like GOD
and God will not give Hisglory unto another. they sowed theirownseed after theirkind inthe earth. GodisLIFE LOVE TRUTH
these other are death.liar and hatred[enmity] twice dead/judged/condemned[water/floodof Noah/fire coming]
Basically,sin is not re-membered in the body of God or Jesus. He hasno place inHeaven..andsoon no place inthe earth..itiscut offas a
body member. theHigh Priest prophesied that it is better for one to die..lest the whole nation perish...Jesus took onthe
appearance of sin/flesh as the High Priest Lord'sgoat..but as thefinalactof atonement Hewillconfess allthe sin He bore on the cross
onto the scapegoats/Azazels lot...and remove it to an uninhabited/desolate/cutoff/ land.Never to enter into God'spresence again.
sin/satan as a cause of offense to God's Holiness...thusitisbetter that sin..as abody member die..that the nation live.
Jesus really does take all the sin of the world away. it would have been better if he/sin never come into our being or beenborn inour flesh
.The Prince of this world has nothing in me.not a member of His body. He routinely cast them out while here in the flesh...
the secound resurrection..ofthe dead..is when they come tothe earth and entered man's weak flesh...tocorrupt/kill/hate/lie.....
andjust like weed seeds are burned..so shal lthey beconsumed..but ye sons of men are not consumed..because of Hisgreat love.
well..what's born of the spirit is spirit[as God's wheat[spirit seed]sown inthe earth[falltothe earth anddie] wemust be born againfrom above
or[gathered in the barn/storehouse ofheaven]orborn again of avirgin[144,00o] breasts ofheaven[wavebreast]born/die/born.
nowthe tare seedisbut the corruptseed..andhasnolife init[theangelsasked..from whence comethetares/death/cloudswithout water[nolife]
twice dead...like Reuben thatdefiled his Father's bed..is satan..defiling what is Holy unto theLord.bed/rest.
tare seed is death...sin seed kills..and this seed in flesh is condemned/judged once/condemned whencast out fromheaven..awaiting
it'ssecound death by fire[consuming]
Michael[who is like God?]warredwith these tares[satanandhis angels]andthrewthem out..because they are not like GOD
and God will not give Hisglory unto another. they sowed theirownseed after theirkind inthe earth. GodisLIFE LOVE TRUTH
these other are death.liar and hatred[enmity] twice dead/judged/condemned[water/floodof Noah/fire coming]
Basically,sin is not re-membered in the body of God or Jesus. He hasno place inHeaven..andsoon no place inthe earth..itiscut offas a
body member. theHigh Priest prophesied that it is better for one to die..lest the whole nation perish...Jesus took onthe
appearance of sin/flesh as the High Priest Lord'sgoat..but as thefinalactof atonement Hewillconfess allthe sin He bore on the cross
onto the scapegoats/Azazels lot...and remove it to an uninhabited/desolate/cutoff/ land.Never to enter into God'spresence again.
sin/satan as a cause of offense to God's Holiness...thusitisbetter that sin..as abody member die..that the nation live.
Jesus really does take all the sin of the world away. it would have been better if he/sin never come into our being or beenborn inour flesh
.The Prince of this world has nothing in me.not a member of His body. He routinely cast them out while here in the flesh...
the secound resurrection..ofthe dead..is when they come tothe earth and entered man's weak flesh...tocorrupt/kill/hate/lie.....
andjust like weed seeds are burned..so shal lthey beconsumed..but ye sons of men are not consumed..because of Hisgreat love.
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 13, 2018, 07:32:10 PM
I wonder if "Second death" should be read in conjunction with "Born Twice, Die Once".
Granted the second part doesn't come straight from the Bible. It can of course be argued it's in any shape or form in the Bible.
First of all we shouldn't view it to literal. Many very good Christians died. Literally.
Actually it's a fact they died twice.
They died the literal death. And before that they died what many Christians call "died to self", the final step before being reborn in Christ/as a Christian.
The unbeliever dies a second death in the Lake.
So could it be that both believer and unbeliever die twice and are reborn twice?
Only the order is changed.
Believer: Born -> Finds Jesus -> Symbolic death -> Reborn -> Literal death -> Heaven
Unbeliever: Born -> Literal death -> Find Jesus in the Lake -> Symbolic death -> Reborn -> Heaven
:dsunny:
I like it! It makes sense to me!
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 13, 2018, 07:32:10 PM
So could it be that both believer and unbeliever die twice and are reborn twice?
Only the order is changed.
Believer: Born -> Finds Jesus -> Symbolic death -> Reborn -> Literal death -> Heaven
Unbeliever: Born -> Literal death -> Find Jesus in the Lake -> Symbolic death -> Reborn -> Heaven
:dsunny:
Good way to look at it.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Heb 9:27 likely referring to the Symbolic death (death to self). Occurs with the believer before the Symbolic death and with the unbeliever before the symbolic death in the Lake (White Throne). Perhaps? :2c:
Quote from: joeteekay on February 12, 2018, 04:20:32 AM
e.g. 7 squared is 49 (7X7)
Oh! thanks!.. I should have remembered that! As 12 is the square root of 144.. and 144 is the square of 12 - :doh:
Quote
By far, Einstein's best-known equation is "E=mc2 - energy equals mass times the velocity of light squared." According to this equation, any given amount of mass is equivalent to a certain amount of energy, and vice versa.
i.e. speed of light is 6.706e+8 (8th power) in mph or The speed of light in a vacuum is 186,282 miles per second.
Speed of light squared is 34700983524.
Oh! ..so it's not mass + velocity of light squared, but mass times the velocity of light squared - which is 34700983524.. so any mass times 34700983524 will show the amount of energy in that mass..
Quote
How incredible is the mind of God. :dsunny: :thumbsup:
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: ..I've been sort of down the rabbit hole for a couple of days.. learning more about what's called last days bible prophecy.. But standing out most of all is the culmination - all that energy released - does not occur except in
His timing.. Therefor, imo, highlighting the verse "will He do anything without first letting His servants know?"
{the trumpets being largely some of this release of massive energy.. mass destruction.. yes, just as literal as Adam, Eve, Virgin birth, crucifixion and resurrection.. and 70 a.d... if/when I have an image of a mushroom cloud.. the pillar will be labeled as, largely the trumpets.. And the circular dust wave, like a tide or pond ripple, labeled as the bowls - the after effects. Then at that notorious last battle (Rev 12:17 w Mt 23:39; Rev 16:14-15-16) more mass energy released.. (Rev chapter 12 is an insert and total history on its own.) https://bibleprophecy4today.blogspot.com/2018/02/bible-prophecy-biggest-errors.html I'm working on a bible tract which will be both U.R. and bible prophecy related.
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 13, 2018, 07:32:10 PM
So could it be that both believer and unbeliever die twice and are reborn twice?
Only the order is changed.
Believer: Born -> Finds Jesus -> Symbolic death -> Reborn -> Literal death -> Heaven
Unbeliever: Born -> Literal death -> Find Jesus in the Lake -> Symbolic death -> Reborn -> Heaven
:dsunny:
..That's what I was wondering awhile back.. The believer - elect, designated to believe during this lifetime - dies to self.. before physical death. So - is physical death, for them, actually, the 2nd death? Which "shall not harm them" / they "will not be harmed by the 2nd death".
But nonbelievers die the physical death first.. so at repentance and reconciliation (btw, the description of atonement/day of) and process, they then die to self, it being for them, the 2nd death (having physically died before).. All baptized with the Spirit and with fire..
Quote from: Rosered
Quote from: GodIsLove on February 12, 2018, 08:53:45 PM
Sulfur is used to treat parasitic infections, like worms, and to treat skin conditions and infections. I used sulfur topically on my skin and scalp in the past and it works great.
Sulfur can be burned to fumigate for germs and mold etc.
YES !!! It sure seems we are made up of all this elements , being tested by the FIRE /WORD /TRUTH/GOLD
So that's why I never am ill with the flu or something similar. Lotsa brimstone in me. The downside is bad breath :laugh:
Quote from: joeteekay on February 13, 2018, 09:29:21 PM
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Heb 9:27 likely referring to the Symbolic death (death to self). Occurs with the believer before the Symbolic death and with the unbeliever before the symbolic death in the Lake (White Throne). Perhaps? :2c:
Which two things flow from under the throne?
How you call it when it heaps up in one place?
That's my last riddle for today. Shut eye time for me.
It's not a difficult riddle. In fact I'm 100% sure you all know the answer.
But the answer is so simple you may overlook it.
I'm pretty sure the answer will make you smile all day long :declare:
heapofwheat..the heave offering,part of the wave offering/thigh of the High Priest.toliftup...just as Jesus lifted up /exalted God..Godlifted him up.
just as Jesus waslifted uponthe cross..Godlifted him upfrom death.changed in the twinkling of an eye..to meet the Lord in the clouds
generally positive..birth..blessing of breast and thigh...sos 7;2
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 13, 2018, 07:32:10 PM
I wonder if "Second death" should be read in conjunction with "Born Twice, Die Once".
Granted the second part doesn't come straight from the Bible. It can of course be argued it's in any shape or form in the Bible.
First of all we shouldn't view it to literal. Many very good Christians died. Literally.
Actually it's a fact they died twice.
They died the literal death. And before that they died what many Christians call "died to self", the final step before being reborn in Christ/as a Christian.
The unbeliever dies a second death in the Lake.
So could it be that both believer and unbeliever die twice and are reborn twice?
Only the order is changed.
Believer: Born -> Finds Jesus -> Symbolic death -> Reborn -> Literal death -> Heaven
Unbeliever: Born -> Literal death -> Find Jesus in the Lake -> Symbolic death -> Reborn -> Heaven
:dsunny:
I too love your approach in the simplest way to explain WW :dsunny:
God bless you !
My only observation is this , the second death causes harm [Rev 9] and has no power over those hid in Christ already , they already gave up everything in the world BUT ARE ALIVE and cannot die ever :HeartThrob:
I have always seen the man of sin /error suffering loss , could this be dying in your sins /error than ? a literal death and suffering loss , being harmed and powerless Rev 9 ;6 In those days people will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, but death will flee from them.
1 Cor 3 Christ Our Foundation , building on truth .
(Isaiah 28:14-22; 1 Peter 2:4-12)
10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise master builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one must be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13his workmanship will be evident,
because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man's work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward. 15
If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as one being snatched from the fire.
Jesus Christ is destroying the works of the devil than HE is destroying Babylon by the Sword of truth out of His mouth
I do believe it will be when they bow the knee and confess Christ than will they repent of their wrong and be saved ..
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 13, 2018, 10:03:37 PM
Quote from: joeteekay on February 13, 2018, 09:29:21 PM
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Heb 9:27 likely referring to the Symbolic death (death to self). Occurs with the believer before the Symbolic death and with the unbeliever before the symbolic death in the Lake (White Throne). Perhaps? :2c:
Which two things flow from under the throne?
How you call it when it heaps up in one place?
That's my last riddle for today. Shut eye time for me.
It's not a difficult riddle. In fact I'm 100% sure you all know the answer.
But the answer is so simple you may overlook it.
I'm pretty sure the answer will make you smile all day long :declare:
:laughing7: Yes!!!!!!!! water and fire from the THRONE OF GRACE , have a great evening Bro T !!
1Then the angel showed
me a river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb, 2down the middle of the main street ... Then he brought me back to the door of the house; and behold, water was flowing from under the threshold of the house toward the east, for the house faced east.
Daniel 7 Daniel's Vision of the Ancient of Days
9"I kept looking Until thrones were set up, And the Ancient of Days took His seat; His vesture was like white snow And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ablaze with flames, Its wheels were a burning fire.
10"A river of fire was flowing And coming out from before Him; Thousands upon thousands were attending Him, And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him; The court sat, And the books were opened. 11"Then I kept looking because of the sound of the boastful words which the horn was speaking; I kept looking until the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and given to the burning fire....
baptisms of fire and water :dsunny:
Quote from: sheila on February 12, 2018, 08:53:13 PM
:2c: some scriptural reasoning I believe God/Jesus will not burn mankind in the LOF for even alittle while.It is appointedONCE
forman todie. Isaaih 66;23 24 From one new moon to another and from one Sabbath unto another ALL mankind will come and
bow done before me,says the Lord. Andthey will GO OUT AND LOOK UPON the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me..
:Chinscratch: I never have really thought of how verse 24 follows verse 23! :doh: Seems obvious, yes! But.. what it seems, to me, to be saying.. is from new moon to new moon and sabbath to sabbath,
all mankind will worship before Him.. yet the dead bodies will still be visible.. which would be immediately following His return... all will worship.. survivors (why would anyone not "believe" by that point?)
And? immediately following the fire consuming those who surrounded the Jerusalem of the millennium around the end of the millennium, after which is the resurrection of all those not yet saved before they died..
Of course our heavenly Father can show to all minds - and any mind - the dead bodies (the fruit and result of life other than in union with Him; the fruit, result and consequences of carnality/nature and character not in close union with Him) - He can show the image and the memory of it whenever He wants to.. The wars.. the dead bodies.. and also each one of our own dead body which was our carnal character which was lost and w/o God..
Quote
2Peter 1;19-21 and we have the wordsof the prophets made more certain..and you will do well to pay attention untoit,
Jesus come like a thief in the night....
and took away from satan what he thought he had..a host body in man.
and some would take the kingdom by force, if it cannot be done otherwise, but not until our heavenly Father's timing..
Quote from: rosered on February 12, 2018, 09:18:26 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 12, 2018, 09:07:15 PM
Not something. You struck the very core meaning of the symbology.
Or perhaps a better expression you struck gold :banana:
Part of the gold refining process is adding sulfur to the molten gold to purge it of impurities. Click (https://www.911metallurgist.com/blog/sulphur-refining-gold)
When sulfur is added it binds itself to impurities, forms sulphides that float to the surface where it can be easily removed.
The process cause smoke.
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.
As we shall see in section C1 torment is actually a word meaning testing.
So it's the smoke of refining gold. Yet another reference to purification (of gold)
Brimstone is another reference to purification.
Quote from: GodIsLove on February 12, 2018, 08:53:45 PM
Sulfur is used to treat parasitic infections, like worms, and to treat skin conditions and infections. I used sulfur topically on my skin and scalp in the past and it works great.
Sulfur can be burned to fumigate for germs and mold etc.
So I'm thinking fire and brimstone—aka sulfur—is to purify. The fire is not to burn the person being purified, but to burn the sulfur, which turns it to a gas that purifies.
Am I onto something with this thinking??
YES !!! It sure seems we are made up of all this elements , being tested by the FIRE /WORD /TRUTH/GOLD
...salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.
----------------------
Quote from: sheila on February 12, 2018, 09:33:36 PM
made me think;" the gas that purifies"..and God saying..Iwillcover the heavenswith darkness when I SNUFF YOU OUT
Rev 9;17 redfire/blue/smoke/yellow sulpher..killing athirdof mankind[outer court fleshbody ofman/put todeath inthe flesh.
-------------
Quote from: rosered on February 13, 2018, 10:21:25 PM
baptisms of fire and water :dsunny:
water and fire from the THRONE OF GRACE
12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man's work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as one being snatched from the fire.
Jesus Christ is destroying the works of the devil than HE is destroying Babylon by the Sword of truth out of His mouth
I do believe it will be when they bow the knee and confess Christ than will they repent of their wrong and be saved ..
10"A river of fire was flowing And coming out from before Him; Thousands upon thousands were attending Him, And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him; The court sat, And the books were opened. 11"Then I kept looking because of the sound of the boastful words which the horn was speaking; I kept looking until the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and given to the burning fire.…
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Amen all..! (water and fire - truth/life and purity..?)
God divided[heapedup] the red sea...divided death..1st death from 2nd. one was blessed..from now on Blessed is he who dies in the Lord.
all men are appointed to die once. two edged sWORD..righteous/salvation edge unto men/condemnation/judgement edge unto satan/evilones.
.all mens spirits are sHoly unto the Lord. satan and his spirits are vile. the worse sinner man on earth..his spirit is more like God then any of our flesh is.
that 'eternity' in the heart of the earth..may not be fathomed by man..but it is there. From now on callno man unclean.
Paulsaid' for apart from law..sin is dead....there is no law against love.Jesus appears again..apart from sin...andwe shall bejust like Himwhen we see Him face toface.
we died when we were born of woman under the law...but Jerusalem ABOVE is our Mother! the Mother of Our spirits.
let me put it this way...because of WHAT JESUS DID..all mankind have a better resurrection...forwhen the prodigal son was dead and come home..he also recieved
the BEST ROBE. now some may have life more abundantly now[recieve atoken of the spirit]but allmen will recieve the eternallife/better resurrection when they return
[their spirits] unto the Father.
Quote from: sheila on February 13, 2018, 10:49:29 PM
let me put it this way...because of WHAT JESUS DID..all mankind have a better resurrection
I disagree....
Without Jesus there wouldn't have been any resurrection.
The wages of sin is very dead, always dead. Jesus paid those wages. And that opened a whole Book of Life...
Quote from: rosered on February 13, 2018, 10:14:04 PM
My only observation is this , the second death causes harm [Rev 9] and has no power over those hid in Christ already , they already gave up everything in the world BUT ARE ALIVE and cannot die ever :HeartThrob:
That's beacuse the second death is the literal death. That's just a doorway to the Throne, where you receive your ticke to heaven.
The hurt was done during the lifetime. You didn't just instantly die but all sin got spanked out of you. That was your hurt. Or your loss as bad works get burned up. (and gold stays)
Quote from: marie glen on February 13, 2018, 10:31:03 PM
:Chinscratch: I never have really thought of how verse 24 follows verse 23! :doh: Seems obvious, yes! But.. what it seems, to me, to be saying.. is from new moon to new moon and sabbath to sabbath, all mankind will worship before Him.. yet the dead bodies will still be visible.. which would be immediately following His return... all will worship.. survivors (why would anyone not "believe" by that point?)
From that I understand that one day the whole earth will keep God's calendar.
So worshipday is 1 single Sabbath and not different depending on denomination or whatever your boss wants.
Quote from: marie glen on February 13, 2018, 10:31:03 PM
and some would take the kingdom by force, if it cannot be done otherwise, but not until our heavenly Father's timing..
I'm unable to quote my stuff here I can but it becomes an unreadable mess.
http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/BitsAndPieces/hebraic_meaning.html
Scroll down about halfway to "Violence in God's Kingdom?"
As a very short summary is this:
force, voilence is a totally wrong translation that leaves out truckloads of symbology.
It means happiness, very eager.
Sheep released out of the pen to storm the green meadows.
It's packed with Good Shepperd stuff.
Rosey answered a part of my riddle.
Rev 22:1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Daniel 7:10 A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him. Thousands upon thousands attended him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The court was seated, and the books were opened.
-> When the flow heaps up you get a lake.
Who is standing in front of the judgment seat, is standing in the river of Life.
Jude 12-14..twice dead Enoch prophesied about them.
Quote from: sheila on February 13, 2018, 11:19:56 PM
Jude 12-14..twice dead Enoch prophesied about them.
Jude 12-25 Christian Standard Bible (CSB)
The Apostates' Doom
12 These people are dangerous reefs at your love feasts as they eat with you without reverence. They are shepherds who only look after themselves. They are waterless clouds carried along by winds; trees in late autumn—fruitless,
twice dead and uprooted. 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shameful deeds; wandering stars for whom the blackness of darkness is reserved forever.
14 It was about these that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied: "Look! The Lord comes with tens of thousands of his holy ones 15 to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly concerning all the ungodly acts that they have done in an ungodly way, and concerning all the harsh things ungodly sinners have said against him." 16 These people are discontented grumblers, living according to their desires; their mouths utter arrogant words, flattering people for their own advantage.
17 But you, dear friends, remember what was predicted by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ. 18 They told you, "In the end time there will be scoffers living according to their own ungodly desires." 19 These people create divisions and are
worldly, not having the Spirit.
20 But you, dear friends, as you build yourselves up in your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God,
waiting expectantly for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ for eternal life. 22
Have mercy on those who waver; 23
save others by snatching them from the fire; have mercy on others but with fear, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.24
Now to him who is able to protect you from stumbling and to make you stand in the presence of his glory, without blemish and with great joy, I find that amazing standing in the presence of HIS GLORY instead of bowing down , such as Daniel did 10:15 ???
25
to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, power, and authority before all time, now and forever Amen.
more scripts on the myriad of angels
Deuteronomy 33:2
He said, "The LORD came from Sinai, And dawned on them from Seir; He shone forth from Mount Paran, And He came from
the midst of ten thousand holy ones; At His right hand there was flashing lightning for them.
Isaiah 26:21
For behold, the LORD is about to come out from His place To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; And the earth will reveal her bloodshed
And will no longer cover her slain.Daniel 7:10
"A river of fire was flowing And coming out from before Him; Thousands upon thousands were attending Him, And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him; The court sat, And the books were opened.
Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man will come in His Father's glory with His angels, and then He will repay each one according to what he has done.
Matthew 25:31
When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne.
2 Thessalonians 1:7
and to grant relief to you who are oppressed, and to us as well, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels
Hebrews 12:22
Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to myriads of angels
the Lord of host ....Sabaoth the hosts of heaven (in the biblical title "Lord (God) of Sabaoth").
[sab-ee-oth, -awth, sab-ey-, suh-bey-ohth]
Spell Syllables
Word Origin
noun, (used with a plural verb)
1.
armies; hosts. Rom. 9:29; ...28For the Lord will carry out His sentence on the earth with thoroughness and decisiveness." 29It is just as Isaiah predicted: "Unless the Lord of Hosts had left us descendants, we would have become like Sodom, we would have resembled Gomorrah."
James 5:4.4 Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, are crying out against you, and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts.
an important thing to remember is, Paul says death will be abolished..he doesnt specify 1st or 2nd death (which Paul says is the Lake of Fire) ..therefore DEATH in its totality, will be done away with = ultimately no more lake of fire, no more 2nd Death. :banana: :dsunny:
Quote from: rosered on February 13, 2018, 12:55:45 PM
Quote from: darryl on February 13, 2018, 08:29:53 AM
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 13, 2018, 06:50:08 AM
There is always more drifting around in my mind; but most I know about this topic can be found here click (http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/LoL/index.html)
Aditionally you may like:
http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/ShepherdsVoice/index.html?page=3_-_the_lake_of_fire.htm
http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/ShepherdsVoice/index.html?page=lake_of_divone_purification.htm
About "no rest" it may have a deep meaning. If it has, I have no idea what it is.
For me it means God no longer patiently waits for repentance. He's getting down to business without delay.
Plus a refiner heats up a crubicle and keeps going until done (no rest)
It's not like a refiners starts the process then goes home for the weekend and on monday morning he melts the gold again and continues were he left of last friday.
yes !...I like it. Also like how the potter, after he 'destroys' a 'ruined' or unacceptable piece of pottery, 'gets down to business' straightaway and remakes the pottery using the same clay of the ruined pottery, into something acceptable.
Love this brother T !!
For sure it is all about JESUS being a businessman , all about HIS FATHERS BUSINESS !!
what is my Fathers is mine
John 16 The Promise of the Holy Spirit
...14He will glorify Me by taking from what is Mine and disclosing it to you.
15Everything that belongs to the Father is Mine.
That is why I said that the Spirit will take from what is Mine and disclose it to you.
16In a little while you will see Me no more, and then after a little while you will see Me."...
This riddle , What was given , at first was 12 , that made more with interest to the sum of all to the full
the true treasures in earthen vessels :dsunny: :HeartThrob:
Strong's G2774 - kephalaion
κεφάλαιον
Transliteration
kephalaion
Pronunciation
ke-fä'-lī-on (Key)
Part of Speech
neuter noun
Root Word (Etymology)
From a derivative of κεφαλή (G2776)
TDNT Reference
n/a
Vines
View Entry
Outline of Biblical Usage
the chief or main point, the principal thing
the pecuniary sum total of a reckoning, amount
the principal, capital, as distinguished from the interest
a sum of money, sum :HeartThrob:
:thumbsup: :banana: :dsunny:
it is stupendous....ALL will be there, in Heaven, worshipping God.....All who are now, in this world, blind and ignorant of Christ....ALL will ultimately accept and be saved, through Christ...ALL the Muslims, Buddists, Hindus, atheists, agnostics etc will ultimately find Christ either now in this world/ existence or in the next.....this is the STAGGERING truth that 'exclusive- istic' religious folk cannot see or grasp....I pray the scales fall from their eyes as it did from mine and they find the Truth.
Quote from: sheila on February 13, 2018, 10:49:29 PM
let me put it this way...because of WHAT JESUS DID..all mankind have a better resurrection...forwhen the prodigal son was dead and come home..he also recieved
the BEST ROBE.
When I read this, Sheila, I thought immediately of the resurrection of all those not saved during this life.. The prodigals? For they rise still prodigals, still in their imperfection.. (missing the mark) and the parable of the Father's love, to me, isn't, the prodigal returned, God tormented him for a while and then made a banquet and put the best robe on him..
Of course, the prodigal "returned" to the Father.. But after being awoken from one's grave.. Well, as stubborn as I once was, if I woke up in the presence of the Father and the Son, from my grave (whatever each of us think that is) - finding ourselves now resurrected and before God's Throne.. I have to think I would "believe" and would "repent" and "be reconciled" - The 3 R's - all resurrected, all repent, all reconciled..
I may not be the brightest bulb in the box, but if I woke up in front of God, I'd like to think I'd recognize it as my time to believe and repent.. Which is that process, from the trampled courtyard to the heart of God.. How can Jesus draw all? Because God is that GOOD!
And, He's the source of all good.. that being why Jesus said "why call Me good? There is only One good" - one source of all goodness.. and if Jesus could say that.. wow.. what should our attitude be? :faint:
:dontknow: just my :2c: :gsmile: God bless!
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 13, 2018, 10:53:47 PM
Without Jesus there wouldn't have been any resurrection.
The wages of sin is very dead, always dead. Jesus paid those wages. And that opened a whole Book of Life...
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: the result of sin/missing the mark is death..
...opened a whole Book of Life... :thumbsup:
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 13, 2018, 10:56:01 PM
Quote from: marie glen on February 13, 2018, 10:31:03 PM
and some would take the kingdom by force, if it cannot be done otherwise, but not until our heavenly Father's timing..
I'm unable to quote my stuff here I can but it becomes an unreadable mess.
http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/BitsAndPieces/hebraic_meaning.html
Scroll down about halfway to "Violence in God's Kingdom?"
As a very short summary is this:
force, voilence is a totally wrong translation that leaves out truckloads of symbology.
It means happiness, very eager.
Sheep released out of the pen to storm the green meadows.
It's packed with Good Shepperd stuff.
my idea here was a worldly, even political one.. some would take the
kingdom world by force, if it cannot be done
otherwise politically, but
not until our heavenly Father's timing.. which timing I referred to in an earlier post in this thread.. about mass release of energy (when man split the atom.. now being held back while 144,000 are sealed... but some things (my reference to taking as if by force) better not to write.. like the little scroll (Rev 10) don't write it..
...But that's great insight! I think I have come across it before.. Love having interlinear, etc at my fingertips!
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 13, 2018, 10:56:21 PM
Rosey answered a part of my riddle.
Rev 22:1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Daniel 7:10 A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him. Thousands upon thousands attended him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The court was seated, and the books were opened.
-> When the flow heaps up you get a lake.
Who is standing in front of the judgment seat, is standing in the river of Life.
...Aha!! :thumbsup:
Quote from: darryl on February 14, 2018, 12:59:35 AM
it is stupendous....ALL will be there, in Heaven, worshipping God.....All who are now, in this world, blind and ignorant of Christ....ALL will ultimately accept and be saved, through Christ...ALL the Muslims, Buddists, Hindus, atheists, agnostics etc will ultimately find Christ either now in this world/ existence or in the next.....this is the STAGGERING truth that 'exclusive- istic' religious folk cannot see or grasp....I pray the scales fall from their eyes as it did from mine and they find the Truth.
:banana: :dsunny: :cloud9:
Hi T..I enjoyed your bits and pieces link. regarding tremble.....I was just given a few days ago the understanding of.."once again I will shake the heavens and earth"
that the 'shaking/trembling"is for the great joy of heaven and earth when He does this.
Quote from: darryl on February 14, 2018, 12:45:31 AM
an important thing to remember is, Paul says death will be abolished..he doesnt specify 1st or 2nd death (which Paul says is the Lake of Fire) ..therefore DEATH in its totality, will be done away with = ultimately no more lake of fire, no more 2nd Death. :banana: :dsunny:
I see not much difference in the both deaths.
Death isn't part of theFather's creation. It crept in with sin.
The wages of sin is death. If people stop sinning they won't die a literal death and they won't endup in the second death either.
Abolishing one death is impossible because if the literal death is abolished the evil live forever. If only the second death is abolished then the evil go unjudged. The evil never get corrected. The evil never enter heaven.
For me the 2 death's are an unseperateble team, that only gets destroyed when sin no longer exists. And that's what heaven is all about. Well there is more, but it's an key component.
abolishing sin = abolishing death
Quote from: marie glen on February 14, 2018, 01:29:39 AM
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 13, 2018, 10:56:01 PM
Quote from: marie glen on February 13, 2018, 10:31:03 PM
and some would take the kingdom by force, if it cannot be done otherwise, but not until our heavenly Father's timing..
I'm unable to quote my stuff here I can but it becomes an unreadable mess.
http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/BitsAndPieces/hebraic_meaning.html
Scroll down about halfway to "Violence in God's Kingdom?"
As a very short summary is this:
force, voilence is a totally wrong translation that leaves out truckloads of symbology.
It means happiness, very eager.
Sheep released out of the pen to storm the green meadows.
It's packed with Good Shepperd stuff.
my idea here was a worldly, even political one.. some would take the kingdom world by force, if it cannot be done otherwise politically,
Well, you don't have to worry about that. Do you think the Good Shepherd let's His sheep out of the pen if packs of wolves are prowling around?
Quote from: sheila on February 14, 2018, 04:01:56 AM
Hi T..I enjoyed your bits and pieces link. regarding tremble.....I was just given a few days ago the understanding of.."once again I will shake the heavens and earth"
that the 'shaking/trembling"is for the great joy of heaven and earth when He does this.
Trembling is a massive study (I never started).
When looking carefully it happens often.
Just a few very known ones.
Good trembling at mt Sinai. God want to dwell with His people.
Jesus died on the cross. A trembling/earthquake. It's hard for me to call an event that tortures someone to death is good... but it openend the veil between us and the inner Temple -> That's the curtain that thorn
At a shaking the saints were raised.
Jesus getting out of His tomb involved a quaking too.
People often assume quaking is always a bad thing but above I've shown that's not so.
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 14, 2018, 06:51:59 AM
Well, you don't have to worry about that. Do you think the Good Shepherd let's His sheep out of the pen if packs of wolves are prowling around?
:thumbsup:
Rev. 7:16 (9:4)"..the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat.."
Psalm 121:5,6 - "..
The LORD is your shade..
The sun shall not strike thee by day,
Nor the moon by night."
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 14, 2018, 07:00:50 AM
People often assume quaking is always a bad thing but above I've shown that's not so.
Amen, logic, also tells us, "tremble at His Word" is a
good thing.. :cloud9:
...Even the quaking at the very 'end' (peak, culmination) (great earthquake like never before) when the Earth shakes to and fro.. ("in the day the towers fall", metaphor and literal) It will be the shaking off of untruth and man's system of things and rule.. Off with the old... On with the new! [After all, He resurrects all.. "is the savior of all" / even though (it seems) He is letting things run their tragic course.]
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 14, 2018, 06:47:24 AM
Quote from: darryl on February 14, 2018, 12:45:31 AM
an important thing to remember is, Paul says death will be abolished..he doesnt specify 1st or 2nd death (which Paul says is the Lake of Fire) ..therefore DEATH in its totality, will be done away with = ultimately no more lake of fire, no more 2nd Death. :banana: :dsunny:
I see not much difference in the both deaths.
Death isn't part of theFather's creation. It crept in with sin.
The wages of sin is death. If people stop sinning they won't die a literal death and they won't endup in the second death either.
Abolishing one death is impossible because if the literal death is abolished the evil live forever. If only the second death is abolished then the evil go unjudged. The evil never get corrected. The evil never enter heaven.
For me the 2 death's are an unseperateble team, that only gets destroyed when sin no longer exists. And that's what heaven is all about. Well there is more, but it's an key component.
abolishing sin = abolishing death
Just what you two shared right here has opened up a mystery I have wondered about for many many years , of How God does things a certain way and Why the Bible has things written in certain ways
Just like Paul saying in Romans 7 and 8
It is no longer him that sins but the sin that dwells in His body ? still dealing with his own carnality pertaining to or characterized by the flesh or the body, its passions and appetites; sensual: carnal pleasures. 2. not spiritual; merely human; temporal; worldly: a man of secular, rather carnal, leanings.
Not even perfected in LOVE yet but kept this hope alive in Christ doing it for him .
He was thankful for the mind of Christ and wants to follow the royal law , Loving God first and your fellow man as yourself .
He was putting all His trust in the Lord Jesus CHRIST as the Holy Spirit was interceding on his behalf to finish the perfect works of the Holy Spirit in him by Gods love in sending His Son to us .
here is what it says pretty plainly of waiting on the Lord for deliverance for the saving of the bodies to dry up the sin nature , there is a scripture in Rev 16;12 about drying up so the Kings of the East are being prepared And the sixth messenger did pour out his vial upon the great river, the Euphrates, and dried up was its water, that the way of the kings who are from the rising of the sun may be made ready; wow!
23 Not only that, but we ourselves who have
the Spirit as the firstfruits—we also groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for adoption
, the redemption of our bodies. 24 Now in this hope we were saved, but hope that is seen is not hope, because who hopes for what he sees? 25
Now if we hope for what we do not see,
we eagerly wait for it with patience.26 In the same way the Spirit also helps us in our weakness, because we do not know what to pray for as we should, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with unspoken groanings. 27
And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because he intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
and Paul goes on to say , that if he had it all and even if he offered his body to be burned/used up without LOVE it is of no use to even bother in another place in 1 Corinthians 13
8 Love never ends.
But as for prophecies, they will come to an end;
as for tongues, they will cease;
as for knowledge, it will come to an end.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part,
10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will come to an end.
Do you see all these endings here ? So it is waiting on the Lord to perfect us in His LOVE that never ends ..
11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put aside childish things.
12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, as I am fully known. 13 Now these three remain: faith, hope, and love—but the greatest of these is love.
But it is the Lord Himself that completes us at the end of all things ... wow , never noticed it like this before . from the children of the DAY being taught of the Lord by the Holy Spirit to the revealing of the sons of God as men .
There is some scripture about the stages and ages of spiritual growth of these in 1 John 2 little children to young men and fathers and is always encouraging but also with warnings as it seems is always in Gods Word .
Just like a two edged Sword that does divide and separate the evil works from the good works and how to remain in Him by being careful how we handle the Word of Life and to wait on the Lord to perfect us in His love .
It's often said we are tempted by demons. That may very well be so but our body is a demon too in a certain way.
Even the holy men of the Bible state they are batteling their own flesh. That means the body they saw in it the mirror is their enemy, because enemies are battled.
I know Scripture also states the body is a Temple but I think that's about the only tiem something positive is writen about a body.
I think the battle rages on until we get a that new battle. Maybe some already totally overcome their body, I certainly haven't. And because even Paul was in constant battle I think nobody really has total victory over his/her body.
:2c:
and turning the hearts of the fathers unto the children,and the hearts of the children unto the fathers......
and they will all know me when I takeaway all their sin[error/missing the mark off full truth andfull /perfect love.love and understanding is Wisdom from Above..
that new birth/born again from above. babylon/confusion destroyed in the mind/heart of man the depths widths of JesusChrist[love&truth]Holy spirit.
the coming wolves at the door of the sheepfold that Paul so tearfully knew were coming[not treat the flock with tenderness]spots and blemishes at the love feasts...
sin is a demon crouching at the door[ofyourheart]and his desire is to rule over you,but you must rule over him[thus man ofsin/doctrines of demons sown in the
churches/hearts of the people.]andthe saints[churches] were overcome..the dragon trampling[Daniel]...Laodeacianchurch,spew out ofHismouth[,REV.]
Comeout ofherMy People!
LOVE AND TRUTH CAN STAND...FAITH HOPE AND LOVE CAN REMAIN..BUT THE GREATEST IS LOVE :2c:
ps T I wrotemy post before I read yours.
Quote from: sheila on February 15, 2018, 07:29:27 PM
LOVE AND TRUTH CAN STAND...FAITH HOPE AND LOVE CAN REMAIN..BUT THE GREATEST IS LOVE :2c:
Is that true?
Isn't love all those things wrapped in one?
Can there be love without truth?
Can there be truth without faith?
Can there be faith without love?
Sorry, I seem to be in a philosophical mood this evening :laugh:
the adversary covets God's throne/temple[your body/mind/heart] the battle of armagheddon is for our own body/land.sin inthe flesh is condemned/notflesh....
Godmade man for His spiritto walk anddwell in..buto'satan comes from walking toandfro inthe earth!
formerly in heaven..knownasthe dragonthat cast the stars untothe earth. Inthe garden..when satan took the bodyof a serpent and spoke through it..became known
as original serpent.When possesing the bodies of animals..knownas the beast.when possesing men's bodies[Judas]known as 'man of sin"
the contrast adversary..is of a different nature than God's. animals become ferocious/wild..men earthly sensual and devilish.you'llknow the tree by it'sfruit.....
although the serpent is more subtil than any beast of the field.
look! all of Israel is not Israel! Jesus said you are allclean..butone..for Judas had a devil...and satan entered his flesh to turn Jesusinformoney
look what goes into the LOF the beast that mislead them[carnalness inman's flesh]the false-prophet that decieved them...the satan and demons that decieved the entire in
habited earth. :2c: the very things/nature that devours andleads usto our death. thevery things that are oppositionaltoHis Holy righteous nature.
true...there is appearance of 'sin' in the flesh..because 'sin entered"through the weakness ofthe first Adam..it is the corruptible image we bear unto the death
ofour flesh..the only way we can live untoGod[exhibit Hisimage/life]is by deadening these body members.being delivered from thisbody undergoing this death. :2c:
Quote from: sheila on February 15, 2018, 07:31:30 PM
ps T I wrotemy post before I read yours.
You have my permission :laugh:
:friendstu:
Three! 3 lof's!? Why do I ask that? [And this is besides the lof as His consuming fire Spirit..]
It's become my belief the tares - in the parable, it is at "the harvest" which according to 1Cor.15:23 - "they that are Christ's at His coming"
So I believe the wheat is gathered at that time - Jesus' return - that the wheat (metaphor for His followers) are gathered (literal) into His barn (metaphor) at His coming.
That (imo) being true, means the tares (metaphor) will be gathered (literal) into bundles (metaphor of?) to be burned (I believe the tares will be gathered to Armageddon battle. Battle-literal)
And they will be resurrected of course..
(And if not "believing" by end of "the Judgment" (day/age) they will go to the refiners lof.. for ALL must die twice - end of life death and death of carnality. (Which death are believers safe from?/will not be harmed by?)
2nd lof - the one at end of the millennium which consumes those (offspring of natural survivors of Armageddon and the apocalypse) who surround "the city" of believers.. for war!
This too occurs before the 2nd resurrection - the one of all who have lived and have not yet been born again/reconciled. So these ones too.. rise. Which of course (Rev 20) occurs before "the Judgment" ...before Judgment 'day'. "Every knee shall bow, Every tongue confess.." .."ALL the ends of earth will remember and turn to the "LORD.."
3rd lof - the all in all event - "the elements melt w fervant heat.. in which the heavens and earth pass away, but we look for a new heavens and new earth wherein righteousness is to dwell" - "Behold I make ALL things new.."
No more death (incl. lake of).
:Peace2:
PS - consequences/results = 'wrath'?
The resurection at the start of the millenium is saints only. So no LoL there.
I'm not so sure the fervent heat is real or mocking the Greeks.
http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/LoL/Elements.html
QuoteThe resurection at the start of the millenium is saints only. So no LoL there.
Wasn't that Revelation verse about the dead not being raised until the 1000 years were over added later on though?
And Kingdoms reign over people. What would be the purpose of reigning over already perfect Saints, or over no one? Unless it is some type of training ground...
I think that the usage of fire and light and lightning, etc. should be thought of in relation to each other, not as separate things. Since people's secrets are being revealed, wouldn't the "intense heat" be "intense light?" And their secrets being revealed?
Quote from: WhiteWings on December 04, 2018, 06:17:29 PM
The resurection at the start of the millenium is saints only. So no LoL there.
Perhaps you misunderstood me.. I was talking about Earthly events.. namely the last battle Armageddon.. Of course thermonuclear did not exist when Ezekiel penned his "prophesies".. And when Jesus gave the Revelation vision to John.. And in the minds of many, even tho it changed so much about the world, it still doesn't exist, is all I can assume..
What I wrote was - um, no, :doh: what I meant to write was -
Tares (of the time)
gathered to Armageddon so no wonder you didn't get it, I suppose.. tho it seems relatively obvious to me..
Quote
I'm not so sure the fervent heat is real or mocking the Greeks.
http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/LoL/Elements.html
And so they believe there are no elements of earth and sky? And yes.. no more Greek 'gods'..
Perhaps the resurrection is parable to confound the Saducees.. (kidding, lol)
:Peace2:
Berean Study Bible
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and its works will be laid bare.
[[ The Day Of the LORD beginning w/ the trumpets of Rev and ending with the all in all event.. ]]
Berean Literal Bible
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar, and elements will be dissolved, burning with heat, and the earth and the works in it will not be found.
Young's Literal Translation
and it will come -- the day of the Lord -- as a thief in the night, in which the heavens with a rushing noise will pass away, and the elements with burning heat be dissolved, and earth and the works in it shall be burnt up.
Quote from: MusicLover123 on December 04, 2018, 06:40:05 PM
QuoteThe resurection at the start of the millenium is saints only. So no LoL there.
Wasn't that Revelation verse about the dead not being raised until the 1000 years were over added later on though?
And Kingdoms reign over people. What would be the purpose of reigning over already perfect Saints, or over no one? Unless it is some type of training ground...
I think that the usage of fire and light and lightning, etc. should be thought of in relation to each other, not as separate things. Since people's secrets are being revealed, wouldn't the "intense heat" be "intense light?" And their secrets being revealed?
:Chinscratch: I wonder if there were Old Testament saints who believed the coming of Messiah, virgin/maiden birth, His being beat etc.. and rising - not left in 'hades' to corrupt/rot --- were metaphor?
I have to think, according to the verses, that even if "after the thousand years"
was added to clarify, and I have no idea if it was or not.. no research.. but even if.. it doesn't change much, if anything..
Rev 20 -
And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. - ? 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.wonder what the Greek is? "reign"
Satanic Rebellion Crushed (#2 lof, imo)
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the (world)beast/body(imo) and the false prophet/teaching are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Not humans (imo) alive at His coming but institutions active at His coming..)
The Great White Throne Judgment
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God :gsmile:
Quote from: MusicLover123 on December 04, 2018, 06:40:05 PM
QuoteThe resurection at the start of the millenium is saints only. So no LoL there.
Wasn't that Revelation verse about the dead not being raised until the 1000 years were over added later on though?
You mean corruption of ScriptureQuote
QuoteAnd Kingdoms reign over people. What would be the purpose of reigning over already perfect Saints, or over no one? Unless it is some type of training ground...
Rev. 20:4 ¶ Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those wwho had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Rev. 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
I understand that as the saints being resurrected and start reigning. Not over themselves but others.
The sheep and goats stay dead during their reign.
Quote from: marie glen on December 04, 2018, 06:40:45 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on December 04, 2018, 06:17:29 PM
The resurection at the start of the millenium is saints only. So no LoL there.
Perhaps you misunderstood me.. I was talking about Earthly events.. namely the last battle Armageddon.. Of course thermonuclear did not exist when Ezekiel penned his "prophesies".. And when Jesus gave the Revelation vision to John.. And in the minds of many, even tho it changed so much about the world, it still doesn't exist, is all I can assume..
What I wrote was - um, no, :doh: what I meant to write was - Tares (of the time) gathered to Armageddon so no wonder you didn't get it, I suppose.. tho it seems relatively obvious to me..
Quote
I'm not so sure the fervent heat is real or mocking the Greeks.
http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/LoL/Elements.html
And so they believe there are no elements of earth and sky? And yes.. no more Greek 'gods'..
Perhaps the resurrection is parable to confound the Saducees.. (kidding, lol)
I think all those parables state facts. Sometimes in a mocking way. The way the story in told is dependant on the listners.
The parable fits the culture. So Jew or Greek audience may make a difference.
Perhaps Hades is simpler example. Why does the Bible mention Hades?
a] It's just a Greek translation of the name of a Jewish god?
b] It's mocking the very existance of Greek gods?
c] It acknowledges Greek gods do exist, but mocks their weakness when opposing Jesus?
d] Something else.
QuoteBerean Study Bible
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and its works will be laid bare.
[[ The Day Of the LORD beginning w/ the trumpets of Rev and ending with the all in all event.. ]]
Berean Literal Bible
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar, and elements will be dissolved, burning with heat, and the earth and the works in it will not be found.
Young's Literal Translation
and it will come -- the day of the Lord -- as a thief in the night, in which the heavens with a rushing noise will pass away, and the elements with burning heat be dissolved, and earth and the works in it shall be burnt up.
Your view is that everytime is wiped out/heated up, by a full scale nuclear war. Right?
I agree that most certainly qualify as heat.
Will God's earth be vapourized so much that He's forced to make everything new.
A nuclear blast doesn't discriminate and will wipe out good Christians too.
I hold a more spiritual view. At least as a good possibility.
It's a war against false believes "elements". It's no secret the majority of the world doesn't believe in Christ. I think even if He returns that doesn't change much. He can quote from Scripture like many preachers. But what good will that do if the majority believe the whole Bible is a fairytale. The majority of who believe the Bible will reject His message as herical because it doesn't fit within the 'truth' of their denomination.
So... it's my belief so devine awakening takes place. A holy wave will pass over the earth and rips away all veils that allow people to see past their wrong believes. The element (wrong teachings) will be destroyed.
I fully admit I don't know what exactly is going to happen, but I think a nuclear war is not what's hinted at in those verses.
QuoteI understand that as the saints being resurrected and start reigning. Not over themselves but others.
Who is "
others?"
Quote from: MusicLover123 on December 04, 2018, 11:47:05 PM
QuoteI understand that as the saints being resurrected and start reigning. Not over themselves but others.
Who is "others?"
The whole world. But that has to be read with caution.
Christ rules a 1000 years until everything is put under His feet. For me that means:
a] The saints rule under the authority of Christ who is their King.
b] It takes a long time until everyone bows to the saintly rulers/Christ. So at the start "others" means likely "almost nobody".
I think things haven't been much different since creation. theFather always was, is and will be the big Boss of creation.
Does that mean all bow before Him? Far from. Even His own people rebelled many times. The rest of creation isn't any better.
A bit like a teacher in front of a class he can't handle. He's their boss but the pupils don't care.
Obviously theFather always had the power to take control with a single tought. But that's not how He seems to work.
Christ has very real and extensive powers when He returns. He has legions of angels at His disposal. As we read in the OT a single angle can annihilate an army in a single night. But again we see a different approach. Instead of starting a blitz krieg and settle things on the day He returns, a plan that looks like a long 1000 year detour is followed.
I'm sure Christ and His heavenly army can be just as devistating as a nuclear war. But... that doesn't seem to fit in the big masterplan.
Finally what does 'under His feet' mean? The usual understanding is close to enslavement.
I tend to think that's not what it's going to look like. I think people start to see Christ is right, good and truly teaches what's right and good. Something that people willingly submit to.
They bow in agreement. Not because some brutal angel forces them to kneel before Christ.
Every knee will bow... click (http://tentmaker.org/forum/bible-verses-used-to-assert-not-all-will-be-saved/hebrews-927-after-death-comes-judgement/msg122137/#msg122137)
Quote from: MusicLover123 on December 04, 2018, 11:47:05 PM
QuoteI understand that as the saints being resurrected and start reigning. Not over themselves but others.
Who is "others?"
Earthly survivors after apocalypse.. we don't go to heaven.. Jesus returns to earth..
Paul wrote about ages following Christ's return, not age.
Then after the millennium(age)is "the Judgment". It seems to me the ET gospel assumes the Judgment is very brief.. resurrection of all not saved and dump them into the lof, which they think is hell.. the belief is they go straight to hell at death, and then after Judgment reunited with their body so the torment will be as bad as possible.. yes I actually read that somewhere. That sounds highly illogical to me (the whole thing/scenario), and seems logical to me that "the judgment" would be an excellent learning/teaching opportunity, that I can't imagine being wasted.. :2c:
Quote from: WhiteWings on December 05, 2018, 12:16:57 AM
Quote from: MusicLover123 on December 04, 2018, 11:47:05 PM
QuoteI understand that as the saints being resurrected and start reigning. Not over themselves but others.
Who is "others?"
The whole world. But that has to be read with caution.
Christ rules a 1000 years until everything is put under His feet. For me that means:
a] The saints rule under the authority of Christ who is their King.
b] It takes a long time until everyone bows to the saintly rulers/Christ. So at the start "others" means likely "almost nobody".
I think things haven't been much different since creation. theFather always was, is and will be the big Boss of creation.
Does that mean all bow before Him? Far from. Even His own people rebelled many times. The rest of creation isn't any better.
A bit like a teacher in front of a class he can't handle. He's their boss but the pupils don't care.
Obviously theFather always had the power to take control with a single tought. But that's not how He seems to work.
Christ has very real and extensive powers when He returns. He has legions of angels at His disposal. As we read in the OT a single angle can annihilate an army in a single night. But again we see a different approach. Instead of starting a blitz krieg and settle things on the day He returns, a plan that looks like a long 1000 year detour is followed.
I'm sure Christ and His heavenly army can be just as devistating as a nuclear war. But... that doesn't seem to fit in the big masterplan.
Finally what does 'under His feet' mean? The usual understanding is close to enslavement.
I tend to think that's not what it's going to look like. I think people start to see Christ is right, good and truly teaches what's right and good. Something that people willingly submit to.
They bow in agreement. Not because some brutal angel forces them to kneel before Christ.
Every knee will bow... click (http://tentmaker.org/forum/bible-verses-used-to-assert-not-all-will-be-saved/hebrews-927-after-death-comes-judgement/msg122137/#msg122137)
Amen.. the millennium reign.. then is the resurrection of all not saved during their lifetime.
And I believe that age will be much like the millennium, but with more weeping, some gnashing of teeth, and even some outer darkness of soul/heart. The real Day of Atonement. :2c:
ps I didn't mean thermonuclear as the all in all event /all things made new. I guess I just assume to collapse all that matter will involve elements dissolving and being fiery.
Plus the reference to lof I assume to be after Judgment Day, (end Rev.20) but before "all things made new" (Rev.21) Yet w/ God's Spirit of consuming fire, purifying (and drawing?) Presence during the Judgment..
I just had to add one more post..
I dug up an old copy of a James Moffett translation of the New Testament I have, but have not read much. When reading Rev.20:14 /11-14 ...John saw a great white throne.. and wrote how he “saw the dead, high and low, standing before the throne.. and books were opened. And another book, the book of life was opened — and the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done. The sea gave up its dead, death and hades gave up their dead, and all were judged by what they had done. Then, death and hades were flung into the lake of fire, and whoever was not found enrolled in the book of life was flung into the lake of fire..”
This translation even more suggested to me that the lof is aFter the Judgment, and the being flung there occurs at the “all in all” (event). Which I believe “no humans in lof”.
19:20 being ‘institutions’ of man active at the time of Jesus’ return.
And seriously, what gets one’s name written in the book of life? And this is how I believe God revealed these things, with this question coming to mind - if Ifound myself raised after death upon Judgment ‘Day’ - as not yet saved - what would be the odds of my still noT believing, and thus rejoicing greatly to be alive, and thus happily bending the knee?
Or, if I’d been in limbo and then my body was raised and I found myself back in my body and the judgment was occurring, what are the chances that I, everyday gramma, would not then “believe”? Logically, not being a great hater of God or anything, wouldn’t I believe sometime during limbo?
Since it is a fable that one cannot be drawn to Jesus after death (and resurrection) - and Jesus said He would draw ALL to Himself (Jn.12:32) I couldn’t really argue with what was unfolding to my understanding. And I saw it as a last nail in the coffin of ET, and also of believing any humans even go to lof. (Please excuse the pun :laughing7: ) And after studying the book (prayerfully) along with the rest of the books of the Bible, especially NT, for almost 40 years, I would expect the pieces to come together.. And since the different parts of the body are for the benefit of all members of the body, even tho I am nobody, i do try to share this. I think it’s part of the - big picture. And SO supports UR.
When I had read those verses this morning.. judgment concludes, it seemed like to me, and if anyone was found (still) not written in the book - of life/of living (of believing) they were flung to the lof.. which presented itself to my mind as a being caught up into it.. as the “all in all” ‘event’ occurred, which making all things new will indeed, surely involve the final consuming of all and anything still impure.. “our God is a consuming fire” so His becoming all in all, could surely resemble a lake of fiery transformation and consuming of all impurity, and thus I have to believe is when those of the second resurrection get their new bodies.. the old ones not being yet made new - I mean it’s not like they would “put on immortality and incorruptibility” before being reconciled.. Yet ALL things are “made new”.
God bless :Peace2: