So the Biblical proof there is no hell?

[Ross]

And those who aren't religious or of a differing religion? Are these people saved as well?

I.M.O This life is just like sitting in a classroom where some pick up what is being taught quicker than others; but in the end everyone learns the same stuff. Some do not come into that class until they have been resurrected.
Jesus said;
              " I am THE way, THE truth, THE life."
Jesus came and died for ALL mankind. He was 100% successful.
As in Adam all die, so in Christ will all be made alive, but each in his own turn.
The cost of sin is death[ not eternal punishment] but the GIFT of God is life.
To appreciate a gift we have to fully know it's application and abilities; that seems to be what we need to learn before receiving the gift.
All meant to be positive. :dsunny:

[CST]

That thread examining every book of the Bible is an exceLLent thread!! (I coulda swore I bookmarked the link to it!

Marie, would you like a printed copy when I am done?  There have been revisions and additions.

http://tentmaker.org/forum/hellbusters-hallow/heaven-yes-hell-no/ - this is the thread Lazarus mentioned - It is however a 13 page thread.. but worth reading over time if you have time..

So not 190 then and I imagine that thirteen pages also includes replies from other members of the site. Where does the 190 come from? I'm imagining 190 posts by Lazarus and all the relevant replies. I may even get to that thread eventually but at the moment there's an awful lot of other post for me to get through. An awful, awful lot. This site is huge.

The part of the manuscript on the thread is ~178 pages, but I have no idea how 178 Word-for-Mac pages translated into 13 thread pages.

So you planing to publish then?  No, we may have some ended up talking at crossed-purposes here. If I've understood Glenda correctly your thread 'Heaven Yes, Hell No!' on Tentmaker comes to thirteen pages. And, if I've remembered correctly that will be anything between 301 and 325 posts. Some by you presenting the work, and some will be replies to what you've posted, some will probably be you replying to those replies. I have no idea how the work will be spread across those posts I've never seen that thread yet. So I don't know and you don't remember but I suspect the basic answer will be logically.

[CST]

There's that word again, 'TRUTH' I'm think about writing my own thread entirely on that now.

[rosered]

There's that word again, 'TRUTH' I'm think about writing my own thread entirely on that now.

  Hi CST ,
  Truth is a great study  ,     so is ''all things ''    When you dig in much deeper   than the surface  of  meanings  , you will  find  some  real ''gems ''   and true treasures of the heart  , that no one can take that away from you .... 

HOLY SPIRIT teaches us the deep things of God    , that the natural man has hidden from his eyes ....

  God bless you always  with more of Him  :HeartThrob:

[CST]

'All things' is a bit trickier, it often seems to feel there's a lot of different caveats behind all it's different uses and it can be translated so many different ways it's easy to miss study you'd want to include in your study.

[Lazarus Short]

So you planing to publish then?  No, we may have some ended up talking at crossed-purposes here. If I've understood Glenda correctly your thread 'Heaven Yes, Hell No!' on Tentmaker comes to thirteen pages. And, if I've remembered correctly that will be anything between 301 and 325 posts. Some by you presenting the work, and some will be replies to what you've posted, some will probably be you replying to those replies. I have no idea how the work will be spread across those posts I've never seen that thread yet. So I don't know and you don't remember but I suspect the basic answer will be logically.

When I get it done to my satisfaction, I'm planning to send it for copyright, then publish, but the publishing seems a bit nebulous at this point.  Having it pinned as a resource here on the Tent may be enough...

[CST]

It might be me but it appears not to be pinned yet. I don't think you need to send it for copyright either, you just need to write (c)<name><date> on every page of it and it's copyrighted. Copyright is automatic or was when last I checked because that's how intellectual property works: you thought of it so you have ownership.

[Lazarus Short]

No, not pinned yet, but then, not finished yet.  I'll look into how one copyright's things - I had thought it had to be submitted to the Library of Congress... :Chinscratch:

[CST]

I think that might be patenting things. Not finished, seriously? That threads being going on for so long I thought it must be finished at least in that form.

[eaglesway]

There is a common law copyright for intellectual property but must be proved in a court of law if contested or if you want to enforce it over someone using your work without permission.

The Library of Congress submission is a fool proof method.

A Creative Commons stipulation is like a copyright establishing intellectual ownership and allowing use as long as the author is attributed, I have used it for music.

You can look that up at Creative Commons.org

[chester-blowfold]

MATTHEW 7: 13-14  Go into the narrow gate because the gate to HELL is wide and the road that leads to it is easy, and there are many who travel to it.   But the gate to life is narrow and the way that leads to it is hard, and there are few people who find it

Any idea if this is just a miss translation?

[Lazarus Short]

MATTHEW 7: 13-14  Go into the narrow gate because the gate to HELL is wide and the road that leads to it is easy, and there are many who travel to it.   But the gate to life is narrow and the way that leads to it is hard, and there are few people who find it

Any idea if this is just a miss translation?

My KJV, which I think of as the SHT (Standard Hell Text) has it this way:

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

What translation did you quote?  Destruction, to me, pertains to the present age, our current lives.

[CST]

Question: Does Hell/Gehenna/Hades actually have a gate or is Jesus being symbolic here? Obviously most here would think he's being symbolic but it's easy enough to take the expression literally if you want to. The Revelation states that the City of New Jerusalem has a gate, which is likely also symbolic, but the Lake of Fire appears not to have one, a gate being an odd thing for a lake to have.

[rosered]

Question: Does Hell/Gehenna/Hades actually have a gate or is Jesus being symbolic here? Obviously most here would think he's being symbolic but it's easy enough to take the expression literally if you want to. The Revelation states that the City of New Jerusalem has a gate, which is likely also symbolic, but the Lake of Fire appears not to have one, a gate being an odd thing for a lake to have.

I  wan to only to help anyone  whom God has blessed me  to understand SOME things ,   
not all things ,  but a few things
  and one of them  , it the gate is our mouth   and when we open it , life and death are in our language /tongue .

   James is clear to me that our  tongue is the unruly   little member of the   body   . being our whole body  and it puts us in   the water and  fire , just as the young man  whom    Jesus  healed when this young man was tossed  from one to the other     and his father asked Jesus to  heal him ,  but the  father lacked faith and  asked Jesus to also increase his faith   , these are  stories with literal meaning   , but with Spiritual truths  in them

  James describes  the tongue   as  what sets on fire the course of  hell / Gehenna judgment and no man can tame his tongue  ...


  God chastens whom he loves     and we all get  to experience  both life and death  spiritually speaking  of a truth ..

3 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.

2 For we all stumble in many ways. If anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body as well.

3 Now if we put the bits into the horses' mouths so that they will obey us, we direct their entire body as well.

4 Look at the ships also, though they are so great and are driven by strong winds, are still directed by a very small rudder wherever the inclination of the pilot desires. 5 So also the tongue is a small part of the body, and yet it boasts of great things.

See how great a forest is set aflame by such a small fire!

6 And the tongue is a fire, the very world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of our life, and is set on fire by hell.

7 For every species of beasts and birds, of reptiles and creatures of the sea, is tamed and has been tamed by the human race.

8 But no one can tame the tongue; it is a restless evil and full of deadly poison.

9 With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the likeness of God;


10 from the same mouth come both blessing and cursing.

My brethren, these things ought not to be this way.

11 Does a fountain send out from the same opening both fresh and bitter water? 12 Can a fig tree, my brethren, produce olives, or a vine produce figs? Nor can salt water produce fresh.

13 Who among you is wise and understanding?

Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom.

14 But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth.


15 This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic.  :sigh:


16 For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing.


17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy. 18 And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.


I do believe we are our own worst enemy when we speak and are not careful  what we say  and do   , it will get worse before it gets better , But God will keep us in line      because He loves us  so very much and has a plan    that cannot fail ....  an infallible   WORD AND SPIRIT   working in us all  till the end ,    everyone called  out of the world /darkness  each in their own order and being dealt with personally ..  ....  I am confident enough to say we can  glorify Him for all He has done   already as we wait on the Lord . 
 

[marie glen]

MATTHEW 7: 13-14  Go into the narrow gate because the gate to HELL is wide and the road that leads to it is easy, and there are many who travel to it.   But the gate to life is narrow and the way that leads to it is hard, and there are few people who find it

Any idea if this is just a miss translation?

The word translated here as "hell" is -
apōleia
ap-o'-li-a
ruin or loss, destruction

from - http://studybible.info/IGNT/MATTHEW%207:%2013-14 and http://studybible.info/strongs/G684

My KJV, which I think of as the SHT (Standard Hell Text)

   :laughing7: ...can't help but laugh.. :smile:

Question: Does Hell/Gehenna/Hades actually have a gate or is Jesus being symbolic here? Obviously most here would think he's being symbolic but it's easy enough to take the expression literally if you want to. The Revelation states that the City of New Jerusalem has a gate, which is likely also symbolic, but the Lake of Fire appears not to have one, a gate being an odd thing for a lake to have.

   :Chinscratch: interesting.. something to ponder.. no gate to the lake..

"gate to hell" -- gate to "ruin, loss, destruction" is wide.. (the direction away from God..?) and narrow the gate to life.. (one way, toward God :smile: narrower.. but ultimately wide, once in the gate?.. spacious green pastures..)

[marie glen]

a restless evil and full of deadly poison

...so true, isn't it?! :mshock:

I do believe we are our own worst enemy when we speak and are not careful  what we say  and do   , it will get worse before it gets better , But God will keep us in line      because He loves us  so very much and has a plan    that cannot fail ....  an infallible   WORD AND SPIRIT   working in us all  till the end ,    everyone called  out of the world /darkness  each in their own order and being dealt with personally ..  ....  I am confident enough to say we can  glorify Him for all He has done   already as we wait on the Lord .   

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Amen! :girlheart:

[rosered]

So many examples  :iagree:

  Amen Marie    :dsunny:



  Gate  a metaphor  the access or entrance into any state  /condition  .

  I    shoulda ,woulda and coulda , lol   :laughing7:   just said simply    any ''opening''    that includes about everything  and anything  that was shut    has a entrance  , utterance  , opening   ..
Somes times   it is TMI     too much information ......  but  I have always felt this world was HELL ...   A separation from God  that can only be restored by Faith in

and because of Jesus Christ / our great gulf fixed by Gods Spirit and His Word ...  depending how little or how much  you desire to know God  , I think it was for me
, just tasting Him , made me desire more and more of Him ..  that is the most simple  answer   I have .

  Now hell  , that is  as Marie   stated   in definition   ,   also simply   /grave / prison/ bad /low state of being trapped in suffering  loss . 
  Because God is gain    and makes us   new   :dsunny:

[CST]

MATTHEW 7: 13-14  Go into the narrow gate because the gate to HELL is wide and the road that leads to it is easy, and there are many who travel to it.   But the gate to life is narrow and the way that leads to it is hard, and there are few people who find it

Any idea if this is just a miss translation?

The word translated here as "hell" is -
apōleia
ap-o'-li-a
ruin or loss, destruction

from - http://studybible.info/IGNT/MATTHEW%207:%2013-14 and http://studybible.info/strongs/G684

My KJV, which I think of as the SHT (Standard Hell Text)

   :laughing7: ...can't help but laugh.. :smile:

Question: Does Hell/Gehenna/Hades actually have a gate or is Jesus being symbolic here? Obviously most here would think he's being symbolic but it's easy enough to take the expression literally if you want to. The Revelation states that the City of New Jerusalem has a gate, which is likely also symbolic, but the Lake of Fire appears not to have one, a gate being an odd thing for a lake to have.

   :Chinscratch: interesting.. something to ponder.. no gate to the lake..

"gate to hell" -- gate to "ruin, loss, destruction" is wide.. (the direction away from God..?) and narrow the gate to life.. (one way, toward God :smile: narrower.. but ultimately wide, once in the gate?.. spacious green pastures..)

You're joking! If the word in Chester's translation that is being translated 'Hell' is actually the word for 'destruction' and neither of the common New Testament 'Hell' words either Gehenna or Hades (I was only using all three because I didn't know which it was) then there's actually nothing to ponder. What I said was meaningless and what Rose said was meaningless because it was based on an incorrect understanding of the text. There's no point me talking about the Lake of Fire or Rose arguing from Jame's use of Gehenna is those terms aren't involved. I suppose I kind of knew that but was led by the translation as given.

So, that's my bad then. I missed the meaning of the primary posts. Of course it's also possible the text Chester is using is not a mistranslation but simply a correct translation of an alternate version of Matthew which he has got. Oh no, I checked. He appears to be using the New Lying Translation. I should have known they love taking unjustified liberties like that.

[marie glen]

 :Chinscratch: to me, they're all the same.. gehenna as slang for hellfire, symbolizing, to me, destruction, loss, ruin - the end of the line, or end of the path of 'away from God' which can never end any other way... Oh! except hades - "place of the dead" I think, like sheol, is still the grave.. If I had any lingering doubt about hades, Lazarus Short's illustration in his thread "heaven yes, hell no" of how dirt = body + breath = living soul/breathing creature, pretty much sealed it up to me.. as far as personally, being convinced immortality is "put on" by believers at Jesus' return (1 Cor 15).. making a "place of the dead" (to my mind) to be simply the dust of the grave (and legend/myth).

As we know, to others, "place of the dead" equates to a 'hell' :mshock: :faint: worse case scenario.. [which, imo, defies all logic] or previous to its 'christian' use, was simply a shadowy "place of the dead" (with good levels and bad levels?)

[marie glen]

I forgot about "tartarus".. deepest darkness? a state of character rather than place, is how I think of it.. thus the way it's used, as being locked into judgment..

[CST]

That doesn't necessarily mean that they meant the same thing to the original audience, start talking like that and you are in danger of justifying the antics of the New Lying, err, Living Translation who in their Study Bible respond to our favored verse in Romans 5:15 thus -

'But there is a great difference between Adam's sin and God's gracious gift. For the sin of this one man, Adam, brought death to many. But even greater is God's wonderful grace and his gift of forgiveness to many through this other man, Jesus Christ.' (Rom. 5:15 - NLT)

'5:15 Paul uses the word many in contrast with one. Many does not always mean all but it can include all people if the context suggests it. Clearly the many who suffer death because of Adam includes everyone (see 5:12), but Paul makes it clear elsewhere that the many who receive the gift of forgiveness through Jesus Christ, sadly, does not include everyone (see 11:1-5) :eyebrow: :wacko2: :angry1: There is so much wrong with that sentence never mind how Rom, 11:1-5 in no way qualifies such a statement.

As you may have noticed I don't believe in the Devil but, to me the New Living Translation and its Study Bible has all the hallmarks of a work of the Devil. It's a really pretty Bible, with loads of text boxes and illustrations probably the most beautiful Bible I have ever seen. But it's theology is ET and it goes out of it's way to push it both in its translation and its study notes, along with other dubious theologies it holds.

Beware of the New Living Translation, just an unqualified warning from me. :laughing7:

[marie glen]

That doesn't necessarily mean that they meant the same thing to the original audience

I figure take away the legends attached to the words.. because Eccles 9:10 tells us what sheol/the grave is "where there is neither thought nor doing"

, start talking like that and you are in danger of justifying the antics of the New Lying, err, Living Translation who in their Study Bible respond to our favored verse in Romans 5:15 thus -

'But there is a great difference between Adam's sin and God's gracious gift. For the sin of this one man, Adam, brought death to many. But even greater is God's wonderful grace and his gift of forgiveness to many through this other man, Jesus Christ.' (Rom. 5:15 - NLT)

'5:15 Paul uses the word many in contrast with one. Many does not always mean all but it can include all people if the context suggests it. Clearly the many who suffer death because of Adam includes everyone (see 5:12), but Paul makes it clear elsewhere that the many who receive the gift of forgiveness through Jesus Christ, sadly, does not include everyone (see 11:1-5) :eyebrow: :wacko2: :angry1: There is so much wrong with that sentence never mind how Rom, 11:1-5 in no way qualifies such a statement.

As you may have noticed I don't believe in the Devil but, to me the New Living Translation and its Study Bible has all the hallmarks of a work of the Devil. It's a really pretty Bible, with loads of text boxes and illustrations probably the most beautiful Bible I have ever seen. But it's theology is ET and it goes out of it's way to push it both in its translation and its study notes, along with other dubious theologies it holds.

Beware of the New Living Translation, just an unqualified warning from me. :laughing7:

I agree! their twist of 15:5 pretty much contradicts what it's really saying..-  "But, not as the offence so also [is] the free gift; for if by the offence of the one the many did die, much more did the grace of God, and the free gift in grace of the one man Jesus Christ, abound to the many;"
:smile:

[CST]

Yeah, I continue to be less than convinced that how you're understanding that part of Ecclesiastes is actually what it says but this probably isn't the thread to discuss that.

Their translation of 5:15 is a spectacular abuse but what really gets my goat is their use of the word 'sadly' in the note, basically acknowledging that even they can imagine it would be better if the more naturally understanding were correct. They usurp their false god with their words even while trying to defend him.

[rosered]

MATTHEW 7: 13-14  Go into the narrow gate because the gate to HELL is wide and the road that leads to it is easy, and there are many who travel to it.   But the gate to life is narrow and the way that leads to it is hard, and there are few people who find it

Any idea if this is just a miss translation?

The word translated here as "hell" is -
apōleia
ap-o'-li-a
ruin or loss, destruction

from - http://studybible.info/IGNT/MATTHEW%207:%2013-14 and http://studybible.info/strongs/G684

My KJV, which I think of as the SHT (Standard Hell Text)

   :laughing7: ...can't help but laugh.. :smile:

Question: Does Hell/Gehenna/Hades actually have a gate or is Jesus being symbolic here? Obviously most here would think he's being symbolic but it's easy enough to take the expression literally if you want to. The Revelation states that the City of New Jerusalem has a gate, which is likely also symbolic, but the Lake of Fire appears not to have one, a gate being an odd thing for a lake to have.

   :Chinscratch: interesting.. something to ponder.. no gate to the lake..

"gate to hell" -- gate to "ruin, loss, destruction" is wide.. (the direction away from God..?) and narrow the gate to life.. (one way, toward God :smile: narrower.. but ultimately wide, once in the gate?.. spacious green pastures..)

You're joking! If the word in Chester's translation that is being translated 'Hell' is actually the word for 'destruction' and neither of the common New Testament 'Hell' words either Gehenna or Hades (I was only using all three because I didn't know which it was) then there's actually nothing to ponder. What I said was meaningless and what Rose said was meaningless because it was based on an incorrect understanding of the text. There's no point me talking about the Lake of Fire or Rose arguing from Jame's use of Gehenna is those terms aren't involved. I suppose I kind of knew that but was led by the translation as given.

So, that's my bad then. I missed the meaning of the primary posts. Of course it's also possible the text Chester is using is not a mistranslation but simply a correct translation of an alternate version of Matthew which he has got. Oh no, I checked. He appears to be using the New Lying Translation. I should have known they love taking unjustified liberties like that.

I believe if you  learn to  trust God   and this IS a  learning experience    by all our trials  of faith [a substance being  the    Gift of God ]

  as to being exercised with ,  it is useless   buried in our earthly bodies   with out any   trials  of faith , hope is lost and we are lost without the HOPE being made alive  within us  , we just simply learn   /lean on our own understanding    and  remain   ''trapped in a spiritual prison  ''    same as those Jesus come  a preached to

While in the heart of the  earth for 3 days    [ this HELL]     and still listening to the letter of the law  that kills     as you continue to kill and BE KILLED  ,,,  Under the law of mankind[son of man ]      Moses and the prophets   , these   were always  ''chosen ''  and  sent  and were killed and mistreated   and treated with  contempt  , Although they had been sent  and was messengers  with    warnings  of the things to  come   upon mankind  , having the Spirit of   TRUTH [Spirit of prophecy in them ....
  Those voices below , still under the ministration of death   ,  that remains earthly sensual and devilish , still accusing     and not   made whole yet ...  none were  made perfect   in their day  without us
They are now  , for sure ...


The law  and prophets  represent   the TRUE   WORD SPOKEN ,  in the day  ,  Being    the seven thunders whom utter their voices   under the song of Moses [sent first ]
and now with the Song of the Lamb  also  , From Heaven[ HEAR MY SON ] last  , they are in the Body of Christ [ the anointing ]  HOLY SPIRIT    AND FIRE

What Jesus come to do was take  the fear of  death away    and this finished work of the cross , giving us the mind of Christ  BY HIS OWN SPIRIT OF LIFE ,and HIS TESTIMONY   / WORD  OF LIFE   which is the SPIRIT OF PROPHECY, teaching us   everything   !!! This body of work   protects us from the evil one   in our minds   , by giving us His own   mind , obedience to the Will of God   the FATHER   and  the Holy Spirit is what convicts us of sin ,   being cast down to our earth [bodies [  Romans  6 , 7  8 . Paul expounds on this  perfectly   ,      But   woe unto the earth   and the devil has come down to  you ...  our weak   flesh  ,  what is the work of the   satan  ,  this adversary     cast out of heaven   ?     And now working in our  mortal bodies    for the utter  destruction of our flesh ?

  To tempt us to sin  ,    and now live lavishly   , thinking we have overcome    the world  / darkness    , but now our faith  is  really put to the test !!    We See Jesus    being  sent  to the wilderness  by the HOLY SPIRIT   and overcoming    satan by the WORD OF HIS TESTIMONY   ,by the SPIRIT OF GOD    that   that is how it is done    , by the narrow path that leads to Life   being  able  follow  His exact footsteps having this working within  you till the end     ...    But   many will go into  spiritual  captivity  , Babylon[satan's throne  is ]   instead     and be   sent to the broad path that leads to destruction   that ol religious  self righteous  spirit ,  thinking you have Jesus and no one else does  , and I am holy and no one else   has the truth  but me and   we will find out   FAST  , NO ONE IS HOLY BUT GOD HIMSELF !!     your  flesh  is weak  and beggarly of elements   and  are in the  consuming fire  with the liars   and  beast    and   satan   and  so  overcome !!!  oh there is repentance   and weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth   !   Esau   lost his birthright in the same manner  and seeing corruption , we all get to see this corruption  ,  the destruction of the flesh     by refusing to let the HOLY SPIRIT  AND FIRE     BE  number ONE    and lead us to Life     , loving God first   and one another as himself      , This has always been the standard    that all things are judged by  , this WORD AND SPIRIT   judging us all from the  beginning to the end  because God is not mocked, we always reap what we sow ..    .

It is   GODS HOLY SPIRIT    HIMSELF   chastening you  , cannot blame this  fire working  on you   is  the devil , it is Gods  Spirit of  Jealousy CONSUMING US ,  not giving  His Glory to another  , but the SON ONLY   , we cannot refuse the chastening  of the Lord  , it is for our own good     , ONLY THE SON   HAS THE AUTHORITY      to snatch you out of that fire   ...Sending  those in the Body of Christ with a cup of cold water   to  comfort you  in the proper time as we all grow in truth and grace .


We    really  are blessed when God gives us eyes to see and   ears to hear and  finally a heart to understand what the Holy Spirit is teaching us  all   
  and  both the water and the fire   baptisms, being totally submerged   and overcome by  both , death/the watery  graves  and hell/ fires of  hurt  and loss   soon follows after it ,  blessed is the ones whom do not have to EXPERIENCE    THOSE depths  fully  ,  to be able  to come to Christ in GOD  Fully and perfectly   whom is ALL in ALL ..
Revelation  or revealing of Jesus Christ teaches us , the WORD MADE FLESH  ,  what is happening  to us  and until we learn  of Him and though Him Spirit of Life , we  have lots to learn and experience  because experience is also a good teacher/ Master   ,JESUS CHRIST BY  by saying and than  DOING   ... 

Earthly wisdom   does not work at all   ,   You must be Born again  to even be able to    experience the heavenly Wisdom    that comes down to us from ABOVE  and is in us   all    rightly dividing the WORD OF TRUTH   ...   As the SPIRIT   GIVES  LIFE back from the dead  .

  Hoping to bless  you all in the same ways  it has blessed me    ,  painful as this all has been , I would never want  it any other way  , it is what it took  to make me  change  according to His  desires   and  as unwilling as I was  at times , makes  me wonder why He didn't  just give  up on  on me , so glad he deals with us all  so  perfectly   and now knowing LOVE  is the greatest    thing  ever   was or is or will ever be  known  in our hearts     that  cannot be taken away   , how really blessed we truly are        :HeartThrob:

  Now,  about that  lake of fire ,    as the lake   touches the outer borders of our own  earth / flesh    it is to me the HOLY CITY    THAT COMES DOWN TO US ALL    AND DWELLS within us  that burns  all those things that offend  in the outer court   and can never enter      Her gates , but  her   Holy call  to rise up and be with Her    and enter gates are ALWAYS open to all the   true HOLY ONES that cannot be harmed or suffer loss     these are the Fathers own    that none can snatch them out of His hand /power  and   Wisdom has been justified by  them    offspring   as HOLY UNTO GOD in,  By and though  the LORD JESUS CHRIST  /THE HOLY WORD  seed  that grew   as incorruptible  .and cannot be  corrupted  ever . 
But  the fake jerusalem   teaching of  the false peace of the earth   is  Babylon  and  bound for destruction  /fire of Gehenna    correction ,  Matt 24 ...   built on the wrong and below wisdom  :sigh: and  is in the fires of torment   , we  must learn the difference  between the two wisdoms ...
and will be made  white     by   the great tribulation . rev 7     that comes upon the whole world as a witness  .

I do not think a one of us come out  unscathed   , except the holy one    that was born  within you , with great travail   , trials and error . 
  This is only mine own experience and  many have their own  experiences  as a  witness to the Glory of   God  in the earth .   
  Jut sharing in some details   as the Holy Spirit teaches us all  what Gods righteousness  means to us personally .     



 

[rosered]

Yeah, I continue to be less than convinced that how you're understanding that part of Ecclesiastes is actually what it says but this probably isn't the thread to discuss that.

Their translation of 5:15 is a spectacular abuse but what really gets my goat is their use of the word 'sadly' in the note, basically acknowledging that even they can imagine it would be better if the more naturally understanding were correct. They usurp their false god with their words even while trying to defend him.

  I am  sorry but many will NOT have the abundant Life in Christ  here  in the short existance of being born flesh and  blood   ...

   Many  WILL   when they rise   up out of the earth   though only to be  taught of the HOLY SPIRIT AND WORD OF LIFE   as  we are learning what His righteousness in the earth is all about   NOW ..

  I am not so foolish to think  , i have it all figured out   yet , and still wait on the Lord   to complete His HOLY plan  .

It has always been the FATHER THAT GIVES THE INCREASE  OF TRUTH AND GRACE     and we all stand in hope  here , unless we stumble over the WORD and  get hurt  ourselves and fail and fall  from that   same truth and grace    ONLY GOD IS ABLE TO MAKE US STAND IN TRUTH  BY HIS GRACE  , I have experienced way to many fiery trials    to say  anything against anyone   , no matter where they are at in the LORDS PLAN   of the ages    and things to come ...   :HeartThrob: