what happens when you die?

[lastpost]

Lastpost, as I understand you well, you're saying to focus on our Saviour instead of on our fears?
I must honestly say this is the greatest struggle in my life. I have a tendency to think God is indifferent (I think this comes from free-will-teaching & faith movement: save yourself by believing right!) Yet recently I find myself being afraid God may allow terrible things to happen in our lifes to teach us. I feel like I'm too much viewing God from a distance instead of relating to Him and talking to Him about everything.

Dear Abigail,

I believe that this is about the Love of God and the need for fear to be replaced by it. I hope you can bear with me a while...

The churches that I hear people talking about on this forum do not exist where I have spent most of my life and I am not familiar with them, and in all honesty, I do not think I would have ever found them appealing, although I did once or twice go to a little Pentecostal church, but the people were so very strange with no answers, and I do not ever remember feeling a presence of Christ there. However, I have been studying the effect of manmade teachings on people here and I see how deeply they affect a person, even many years after they have rejected a particular form of teaching. And I see that your families and friends are often tied up in this church life so it is also a cultural matter, which makes it more difficult.

Yes, in my opinion, studying Christ will help you realise the Love of God. From my own experience I can say that Christ is living inside, and yet it is possible not give Him the freedom and release that He is only too willing to give.

I realise that people harmed by churches have had a sense of fear instilled into them concerning God. This is all down to man and his mind being influenced one way or another by what I will call 'the shadows', which refers to anything which hinders the Love of God.

Abigail, I have never had a fear of God, such an idea is alien to my experience. I spent a large portion of my life being taught that God is Love, and my meditation and underlying awareness is founded on that. It would simply be impossible for me to see God as being anything but Love. So you can perhaps imagine how heart-breaking for me it can be hearing people continue to attribute to God any bad quality and yet being unable to escape from feeling it, when I know it does not really exist in Him.

I am not saying that fear does not play an essential part in a sinner coming to repentance for violating the laws of Love. But what I have found impossible to convey to ex-church people is that the God who is Love plays no part in creating fear.

Ah, yes, I know all about the Old Testament God and what the Bible says about Him. But I view the Bible differently. I see it as the enfoldment of God to a wayward mankind, and having come to a certain level of revelation, so He unfolds Himself some more (a pattern which I believe continues long after so called death).

Goodness, what those people got up to - pure evil! What exactly would they listen to? If you walked up to people in Old Testament days who were sacrificing their children in a vile and horrific manner to some god, and you said to them: "God is Love, you should not be doing that" - such a people would think you were insane, they would not even have a clue as to what Love is (or they would not be doing what they were doing).

Anyway, the point is, the God of the Old Testament was God the Ruler. And not wanting to jump the gun, so to speak, I believe that God uses man to carry out His plans, and in the gathering together of old records, a lot of which had never been written down over the years but had existed in the minds of tribes and national story tellers, so the kernel of truth remained at the centre of man's gloss. But there is always a spiritual meaning if not a localised direct and literal truth. I have said this is my opinion but I have very good reasons for it. [And regardless of what people may say, ultimately, man makes his decisions in the final count, based upon his Reason, whether it be sound reason or not].

Then, to cut a long story short, Abigail, we have the Loving Saviour of mankind, the Gentle Shepherd, making His appearance. Love Incarnate no less!

Now He was to change things forever concerning peoples' notion about God. The Christ of God, in whom dwelt the fullness of the Godhead bodily, was Himself gentleness, tenderness, purity and kindness. He taught about having to learn how to have the innocence of a little child. Jesus as much said to His disciples, look at Me, I have spent days and nights with you, teaching you about God, and if you have seen Me then you have seen your Father God - this is really what your God is like, like Me.

Jesus emanated Divine Love from His very Presence in human form - yet a man was He, not seeking to bring any advantage that others did not have. He was to show man how to live - the pure, sinless life, full of the most powerful temptations that no others would be asked to face, and yet overcoming them all. He showed man what was possible, and He did not condemn a Trier who failed but held out His loving arms, asking them to arise and try again, assuring them in such a caring manner that if only they had the faith they could do it.

When Christ lived amongst men, it was the greatest and most splendid instance of the highest selflessness and tenacity of purpose. With man, Jesus lived a life of work most practical and earnest, and for Truth He died a death which was pure self-sacrifice.

Try as man may, he will not find a Person as pure and loving and who lived such a perfect life as Jesus Christ - and He lived more simply too. With Jesus, there were no strange manmade doctrines, they all came soon after He had departed. Soon the minds of men were to start complicating things. Men who were receiving messages from the Spirit, men who had received instruction from the Master Christ Himself, even these men were not totally free from the need to create doctrines based upon their old ways, the brainwashing culture which Christ had come to set them free from - man seems to need to add gloss to Truth because it seems too simple.

I need not say anything about how bizarre and distributed today's religious doctrines have got to, as you mention these as the cause of your problem.

Man should get back to Jesus Christ, and so we shall, if you are still reading this, that is. Christ introduced a new form of spiritual teaching, or rather one which was alien to His hearers. He taught the obedient will and the humble heart. He taught the turning of the other cheek, the forgiveness not just of one's friends but rather shockingly to some, the forgiveness of one's enemies.

Christ comprehensively refuted the strangulating doctrines that man had put on the laws, and in so doing laid the groundwork to spiritualise it and refine it, He instilled into it a new spiritual life and power, and upon the people He breathed new life and renewed their dynamism - the external show, the tradition, He replaced all this with the focus on the humble heart, with the spirit of affection - and for all this, He was crucified through the jealousy and fear of the priests.

What Jesus changed concerning the outlook of people towards their God, was the replacement of attrition with contrition. Now He taught about a God who was Love, not a God who was to be feared. This was such a hard concept for those to whom He spoke to grasp. Yes, they could understand God the Ruler, the almighty God Jehovah who demanded their goods and trinkets in order to escape a fate worse than a thousand deaths. And the priests made sure they kept the fear energised in the people. But a God of Love...so Jesus was limited to how far He could take them regarding knowing about the Love of God.

And so it is today - it is possible to know a God who is Love and have Christ live inside of you - but not the God of the letter portrayed in Christianity today, please note . You see, while I am interested in all this study about various translations of words (well, I started learning about 'aion' a quarter of a century ago), I say with all honesty, ultimately it is irrelevant because all that a person needs to do is believe that God is Love, study the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, and then read between the lines in the sacred records collected together by inspired men in the first millennium (again, making their ultimate decision based on human Reason, inspired by God and angels no doubt, but still Reason being the final judge).

Jesus the Healer went about healing people - that they came to Him was enough, He would heal them in body and mind. Yes, He preached repentance, but this was because He knew what the violation of the laws of Love - the laws that He Himself had brought into being at Creation - what such violation brings upon the soul.

And this is a point I want to try to get over - whatever repercussions come to the soul when they oppose the law of Love - this is not the Supreme Being, the God who is Love, Himself imposing such repercussions. What is happening is that the laws that are in operation since the beginning of Creation are taking effect - they cannot be circumvented. If someone intentionally harms another innocent human being, then they will literally reap what they have sown - as a man sows, so indeed does he reap - whatever is meted out, so it is metered back.

Of course repentance and expiation must be taken into account but that is another huge subject, but please let me express my opinion, God is Love and His love never stops being poured out upon His child, no matter how wayward. But the angels He sends to help mankind are not there to take away the results of a person's wickedness, they are there to help that soul face the truth of their wicked ways and repent.

My heart goes out to you. I have tried to take this beyond traditional Christian teaching without it sounding too far removed, and to help you come to a place where the God who is Love has been brought out of the pages of the Holy Book by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, a place where the history of His unfolding Divine Love can be sensed at least, a place where the Spirit arises and the letter retreats, a place where you need not fear the legalists quoting words which were meant for hearts far more hardened than your obviously gentle heart, a place where the mind of man cannot affect the Spirit of Christ within you.

And on that theme, I suppose I ought to try, in all humility I hope, to give my testimony of the Christ within, so that you know it is possible. When the love of Christ arises within, and you meet that love, it is like nothing else known, it is like a force of sweet yet overpowering...energy, that is full of passion, but this passion wants to give itself away, and it drives you crazy because you have no idea how to give it away, after all it is inside of you, powerful, the love of Christ - it gives, gives, gives, gives, and gives again, it never stops trying to give itself away! And you are in the middle of it all not knowing how to fulfil the overwhelming desire. That is essentially why I came back to this forum - it was a couple of these experiences that urged me back here, because in all honesty, I was beginning to give up any hope that people would ever understand what I might try to say, and the things I heard about God, well, I tell you the truth, they hurt, and I would rather not hear.

I could say a lot more but it might sound too strange just coming out of the blue, so to speak, so I'll leave it at that. Pray to the Father God, meditate on the Christ within, take some moments to consciously do this as a separate moment of the day, free from being involved in action. When Jesus was healing, I believe that He was not thinking of worldly things, His Mind was on the healing. I promise you, Christ is the answer to everything, Christ, Christ, Christ...let Christ guide you, the Christ-Spirit is Holy, is Spirit.

I hope this helps in some way.

Peace ✞

[JonesHenry]

My  :2c: I am 70 yrs. old with prostate cancer and if that does not cause my death something will cause me to quit this breath of life [which some contend is spirit] Alive= H2421 chay=to live. When I quit that breath my body(flesh-soil)will go back to the dust as with all flesh. I, that's me, see the word spirit in Ecc. 12:7 is the very breath I began with,  yes in a sense it is spirit for He is the Father of "spirits." (Heb. 12:9)

Feeling really sorry for you. It might already be too late, but anyway, here are a couple of interesting links you should watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl8Y8I_TsjI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnEQFno794s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHnO02G3qww



But it maybe already too late for you.



I know im going to get into trouble for this, but i would like you to contact me. There is something that i can do for you, but i cannot mention it here or i will get into trouble. Please contact me at

Joneshenry@hotmail.com

[marie glen]

When I grew up, I always was anticipating a catastrophe

I have a tendency to think God is indifferent ... find myself being afraid God may allow terrible things to happen in our lifes to teach us.

When I was growing up, and even later.. I was always expecting "the axe to fall".. (haven't heard that saying for a long time)

I hope you don't mind my saying, but I think of those as threats.. threatening spirits.. and I think you are right about relating more to the Lord and talking to Him more, about everything.. Another way of saying this might be that we need to dwell under the shadow of the Almighty and abide under His wing..

..and with these threats, I believe that if we "resist the devil, he will flee from us"

I actually think it's a miracle any of us are alive and breathing, for the enemy (Satan&co) would very much like to see us not living :smile:

And I think they come around and try to talk us into all kinds of things, like various illnesses, etc. It's just a theory of mine.

I once upon a time battled deep dark depression, and one of the things the Lord taught me was, not only to be renewed in the spirit of my mind via the word and its abiding in me, and my abiding in it, but also to monitor my thoughts, and every negative one, toss out, cross it out with a big X and replace it with a positive thought of praise and thanksgiving..

"whatsoever things are lovely, and of good report, think on these things".. away with you threat in the name of Jesus.. away with you fear, in the name of Jesus.. for "Jesus is Lord'.. and "the Lord is righteous He has cut asunder the cords of the wicked.." .."God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.." If demons hear the word of God (even in our mind?) they flee.. but they'll lurk! We need to put on and keep snug, the full armor of God.. "above all, the large covering shield of faith".. and when we pray, praise and, or give thanks, and abide in Him, i believe the Spirit of the LORD shines through us (like light) becoming a mighty covering shield..

All the best! and God bless!! :gsmile: :Pray:

[micah7:9]

My  :2c: I am 70 yrs. old with prostate cancer and if that does not cause my death something will cause me to quit this breath of life [which some contend is spirit] Alive= H2421 chay=to live. When I quit that breath my body(flesh-soil)will go back to the dust as with all flesh. I, that's me, see the word spirit in Ecc. 12:7 is the very breath I began with,  yes in a sense it is spirit for He is the Father of "spirits." (Heb. 12:9)

Feeling really sorry for you. It might already be too late, but anyway, here are a couple of interesting links you should watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl8Y8I_TsjI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnEQFno794s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHnO02G3qww



But it maybe already too late for you.



I know im going to get into trouble for this, but i would like you to contact me. There is something that i can do for you, but i cannot mention it here or i will get into trouble. Please contact me at

Joneshenry@hotmail.com

No worries here my friend, but thank you for your thoughts. HE IS RISEN :dsunny:

[Abigail]

Lastpost and Marie Glen! I missed your posts, yet today I discovered the 'show new replies to your posts' button and there I found your very encouraging posts. Probably the right timing though.

Lastpost, it's not too strange at all, my spirit says yes all the time to your writing. I know what you're saying is so true. You know what I don't understand? I've experienced God's love, that is, he showed me his love on several occasions very clearly. I wonder why I still hold that distrust in my heart.  :dunno2:
I long so much to be founded it that LOVE, in Him. I'd love to be filled with love that drives away all fear. To be free to love. I'd also love to be able to read the bible with eyes opened wide by the Spirit. I've had those moments, yet often my eyes seem to be closed and then it's a totally different book and I lay it aside.

[lastpost]

Dear Abigail,

If I may say so, your heart and motives and honesty are as good as it gets. It seems to me that habits of thought and belief created from theological conviction which has run so deep over the years, are all that hinders you from being free from complete trust and faith in God - and I promise you God is synonymous with Love.

Following the Saviour Christ alone lets one become intimate with Him - for there are no secrets in Divine Love, and when one realises that He is hearing every whisper of one's heart, one knows He is Love - and He shows us the Father.

It will happen Abigail. Habits have a way of springing back on oneself like a rubber band. Once they are smoothed out, all will be well and you will never look back. Yet sometimes we must have patience while all things are worked out as the spirit within desires. I hope this helps somewhat.

May He grant you His Peace and His Joy in all its fullness!

[micah7:9]

One quits breathing the "breath of life".

Now comes the speculation and interpretation. I'm settled with the returning to the very soil from whence one came. The rest is the expectation and hope.

1Co 15:21  for since through man is the death, also through man is a rising again of the dead,
1Co 15:22  for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive,
1Co 15:23  and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,

[Dandelion]

A brilliant Pastor, whom I know, told a group of us, when were studying scripture, that, in this life, we live in time and space, but, when we die, we are no longer subject to time and space, but enter into the world of Eternity, with God. Up to about 2 weeks ago, I envisioned being saved by my faith, and that Jesus death and Resurrection had made me righteous. And, I believe I will be, but perhaps there will be a bit more.  I did not believe that anything happened after death that could change our outcome. But now, I do. A bit of retro for me, from my 47 years as a Catholic, with Purgatory.

So, a 'cleansing', if needed, in some way, and then, onto Heaven? (Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny. Matthew 5:26) Perhaps, simply seeing God, face to face, will, somehow, be a transforming event, which will 'cleanse' us?

Just some thoughts of the afterlife, now, in light of my belief in UR, which I have been exposed to for only about 4 months or so....in a tight nutshell.   

:2c:

[eaglesway]

All of those thoughts are creditable. We see thru a glass darkly, but there are indications as I read the scriptures that overcomers will awaken to immediate and full joy. Some believers may need a little cleaning off of wood hay and stubble- maybe a lil touch up- as in saved but as thru fire(1 Cor 3). Since His eyes are as flames and His face like the sun shining in its strength- I think the idea of just being in His presence as transforming all as very likely- it is in fact what I believe the lake of fire is- standing in the midst of the great congregation before the Lord and all His holy messengers(angels and saints)- "Know you not you will judge the world?"

I mean, "He makes His messengers winds, His ministers flames of fire", so imagine it-

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

29 For our God is a consuming fire.



Isnt it interesting how those verses end? And the chapter begins with 'we are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses'....

It ends with- "Our God is a consuming fire"

I think Hebrews 12 is the lake of fire described in detail, but thats just one man's opinion.

"Know ye not you will judge angels?"   "And the courts were seated and the books were opened and they were judged by the things written in the books"- What books? 

The book of their own consciences.

"Their conscience either accusing or excusing them on the day when God judges the secrets mens hearts through Jesus Christ"(Rom 2)

Standing before the Lord, in the presence of the great congregation, every conscience will be laid bare by the fire in His eyes and the sword of His mouth until every knee bows and every tongue confesses and death is done away because sin is done away :o)

[lastpost]

One quits breathing the "breath of life".

Now comes the speculation and interpretation. I'm settled with the returning to the very soil from whence one came. The rest is the expectation and hope.

1Co 15:21  for since through man is the death, also through man is a rising again of the dead,
1Co 15:22  for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive,
1Co 15:23  and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,

You do make me smile Micah, I understand you.

These words: "expectation" and "hope" are charged with meaning.

I hope I am forgiven if I stand on the rooftops and proclaim in faith the complete expectation and hope of the certainty of life after death of which the reappearance after death of the Lord Jesus Christ, and of the involvement of His Spirit in my life, assures me.

I am happy to do this - but please understand that I also believe that regret of the deepest kind will be mine if I do not proclaim it now, for I shall see that I did not do it when I could see it.

Till then, Peace and Joy

[sheila]

    long time ago...I thought my life come from this body......I actually thought I was alive because of my body.....

........but in time...He showed me...that my body appeared alive[no life in it of itself/just dust] because of the

   spirit of life that was in it.  take the spirit of life out of the body...the body[dust] returns to it's dust state......

   but the spirit..when it leaves the body returns unto the Father..is still alive and conscious.

   example...the wind picks up the dust and clothes itself with it...and you behold a dust devil..moving around as

  if it is alive.  What you see dust/flesh has no life in it. But the life/spirit that is unseen is the real life

    substitute the wind for spirit/breath  and our body of dust

[rosered]

 :thumbsup:


    Hebrews 9 The Blood of Christ

11But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here,


a he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation.


12He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves;

but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtainingb eternal redemption.



13The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean.



14How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God,

cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!

  :dsunny:

[eaglesway]

Thats a good one :o)

[Dandelion]

All of those thoughts are creditable. We see thru a glass darkly, but there are indications as I read the scriptures that overcomers will awaken to immediate and full joy. Some believers may need a little cleaning off of wood hay and stubble- maybe a lil touch up- as in saved but as thru fire(1 Cor 3). Since His eyes are as flames and His face like the sun shining in its strength- I think the idea of just being in His presence as transforming all as very likely- it is in fact what I believe the lake of fire is- standing in the midst of the great congregation before the Lord and all His holy messengers(angels and saints)- "Know you not you will judge the world?"

Yes, eaglesway, this is what I picture, as well. Thank you.

Hoping I won't need the 'touch up'.  :Gcry:

:iagree:

[eaglesway]

Arent we all.

As I see it, the touch up is not about perfect conduct. James said we all stumble in many ways. It is about humility and honesty.

"If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness"

As long as we stay humble we have all the touch up we need, the blood of Jesus :o)