OWLAM OLAM OLAWM

[Tom]

So you don't think Jesus is coming back?

[rosered]

  I believe Jesus returns  often , not once like a lot of    folks do

in the same manner   Acts   1  When Jesus     went  up in the cloud /witness

  I  know when he showed Himself to the many , He did not show Himself   to them all at once either

  it  was several   in several places   .

10And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going,

behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them.

11 They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky?

This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.

  I just believe    we have a  very different  view of just what heaven is and means .    Tom

[marie glen]

Marie, click on the small plus sign in the upper right corner twice, and you should see two more choices available for comparison. If you've installed all three modules, you will be able to compare the Authorized Version (King James), which you have, along with Young's Literal Translation and the Concordant Literal Version simply by right clicking on each set of initials and changing them to arrange in whatever order you choose. See the attachment.

Oh! thanks! I was looking for that option! thanks! :2thumbs: :gsmile:

[Tom]

What do you think "heaven is and means," Rose?

[Tom]

Here's a screenshot of "heaven" from the concordance. See that attachment.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[joeteekay]

Right now I think I'm living and dying in the third and wicked eon, but, when I'm vivified, I'll be experiencing eonian life for real for the next two eons and immortality beyond the consummation of the eons.

http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html

I agree with you and Micah
:dsunny:

[eaglesway]

Paul spoke of being caught up to the third heaven, and Genesis speaks of separating the heavens. There are hundreds of uses of heaven and heavens in the bible. Some can mean air or sky, some clearly mean more. I deduce that the lower heavens are the common functions of nature, air/wind, rain, sky, then the mid-heavens where the prince of the power of the air works along with the mind of man, then the higher levels being the abode of angels and the throne of God in the highest heaven, so that in defining "heaven" in scriptural terms one has to be a bit broader in scope than the "meaning of the word", because the word is applied to multiple levels with a unified theme.

The angels in judes 6 are bound in aidos chains under darkness reserved for the judgement of the day, so the concept of heaven also involves "inner" and "outer". The kingdom of heaven is within. Further in there is purer spirit, further out there is chaos, outer darkness.

I know we love to simplify, but not everything is simple, until our orientation is right. Then perspectives widen and deepen and perception clarifies as God takes us "up" and "in" the renewed mind and the wisdom of God in Christ, where we are "seated in the heavenly realms where abide all the spiritual blessings in Christ Jesus"(Eph)

[Tom]

I'm with you for most of that stuff, bro. I just provided a definition as a starting point because what it is was brought up.

[Tom]

I think most Christians would deny that Satan is in heaven now, but I think he is until he will be cast out. (Revelation 12:9,10) He will get chained in the submerged chaos for a thousand years, and then released long enough to deceive the nations to attack the saints. Then Satan will be cast into "the lake of fire" where he, the wild beast, and the false prophet will be tormented for the eons of the eons. (Revelation 20:1-3; 7-10) But mortals will be dead in "the second death-the lake of fire."

[rosered]

Paul spoke of being caught up to the third heaven, and Genesis speaks of separating the heavens. There are hundreds of uses of heaven and heavens in the bible. Some can mean air or sky, some clearly mean more. I deduce that the lower heavens are the common functions of nature, air/wind, rain, sky, then the mid-heavens where the prince of the power of the air works along with the mind of man, then the higher levels being the abode of angels and the throne of God in the highest heaven, so that in defining "heaven" in scriptural terms one has to be a bit broader in scope than the "meaning of the word", because the word is applied to multiple levels with a unified theme.

The angels in judes 6 are bound in aidos chains under darkness reserved for the judgement of the day, so the concept of heaven also involves "inner" and "outer". The kingdom of heaven is within. Further in there is purer spirit, further out there is chaos, outer darkness.

I know we love to simplify, but not everything is simple, until our orientation is right. Then perspectives widen and deepen and perception clarifies as God takes us "up" and "in" the renewed mind and the wisdom of God in Christ, where we are "seated in the heavenly realms where abide all the spiritual blessings in Christ Jesus"(Eph)

Amen John   just as I see it too  :thumbsup:

      There is many things Jesus did not say   , none could bear it at the time ,   it was when the Holy Spirit come to teach them all truth  would  they actually  learn     though experiences and   heavenly divine interaction     of the HOLY  SPIRIT   being within them     and the Christ being formed in them     

   I believe Tom and I were speaking of   two different types   of the meaning of heaven   , the heavens are plural and     the old one is  disappearing

Thanks for bringing   up and speaking  out   about the 3rd heaven  :thumbsup:     


  I am   really rejoicing about the    words of Jesus speaking it as on earth and it is in heaven   ,   when both   our minds / hearts are  accorded    as being new and as  ONE   place   in Him ,      this  is amazing  and new to me     , the Holy Spirit is showing in the scriptures now and      it changes my old way of thinking  entirely   

    and trusting Him completely  .

  Change is good when its for the better and not the worse...   :HeartThrob:   

[Tom]

Marie, I know about the third heaven and all that other stuff, but I don't think there is an old definition of heaven disappearing. 

[Tom]

I think, when people look up to "heaven," all we see is the sky which is the lower part of "heaven," but it goes higher. I think it is the "kingdom of God" that's inside you, not heaven. (Luke 17:21) Then there's "the kingdom of the heavens" which will be the earthly kingdom ruled by Christ in Jerusalem.

[Tom]

I think the sinning messengers of Jude 6 are possibly the same as those mentioned in 2 Peter 2:4, and, if they're in "heaven" as has been suggested, they're in a dark corner somewhere. I guess, since they're probably not down here on earth, they must be up there somewhere like maybe in one of those places in space where scientists only see dark matter or dark energy. I guess the thing is that they're all in the spirit realm. So they could be anywhere but just be blind to the light which is what I think they're being subjected to.

[rosered]

I think most Christians would deny that Satan is in heaven now, but I think he is until he will be cast out. (Revelation 12:9,10) He will get chained in the submerged chaos for a thousand years, and then released long enough to deceive the nations to attack the saints. Then Satan will be cast into "the lake of fire" where he, the wild beast, and the false prophet will be tormented for the eons of the eons. (Revelation 20:1-3; 7-10) But mortals will be dead in "the second death-the lake of fire."

  I  guess Jesus was  speaking  of a different Satan than  Tom ?
  For me only and not any one else I reckon  , I see this as satan falling from the heavens in the sense of this  , these boys were   FREE!!    and the satan  that  accusing spirit that made them       prisoners by the fear of  death  ,,   they were set free in JESUS     

Just as any one of us are,,  whom have the same faith  in    Him and same Jesus   Christ    :HeartThrob:

  Luke 10  17The seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name." 18And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning. 19"Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will injure you.

The Holy Spirit is your heavenly dwelling within     your  new  teacher and comforter   , you new conviction  comes from God not satan any longer   to accuse you before God day and night     under the old law and covenant / night = not knowing  or the new covenant of faith in Jesus Christ  =   the children of the Day   of the LORD Knowing Him

     

   If   the Son of Man   being the Son of God  sets you are free  you are  free indeed !!     we are under the new law of Liberty  , that is to  LOVE  everyone as yourself     and not to abuse this new    and glorious  work of God in you  ,   show the same mercy to others as you have been given     by the   Father though Jesus Christ .

  12So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

13For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.
   

[Tom]

It's the same Satan, sis, but church doctrine has folks believing he's in "hell" down underground torturing all the bad people in fire who never "accepted Jesus as their savior" which is pretty rotten because a lot of those people never even heard of Jesus.

God created evil.

"Former of light and Creator of darkness, Maker of good and Creator of evil, I, Yahweh, make all these things." (Isaiah 45:7)

"I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens: it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it." (Ecclesiastes 1:13)

God gives Satan power to try us (Job 1:6-12,2:1-7), but Satan will eventually lose that power (1 Corinthians 15:24).

"Satan," Hebrew for "Adversary," also known as "the dragon," "the ancient serpent," and "the Slanderer," is head of the forces of evil.

Demons are deceiving spirits of the terrestrial realm whose chief is "Beelzeboul," or "Beezeboul."

"Apollyon" (Greek) and "Abaddon" (Hebrew), meaning "Destroyer," is the messenger of the abyss.

Satan was a sinner from the beginning, but here are a few verses relevant to the so called "fall of Satan" that is not in the scriptures.

Ezekiel refers to the king of Tyre not Satan (Ezekiel 28:15). The king of Tyre is a man, and Satan is not a man (Ezekiel 28:2,9).

Isaiah refers to the King of Babylon in the future day of Israel's restoration not Satan's fall in the past (Isaiah 14:3-20). Then Satan will have been cast out of heaven (Revelation 12:9). The King of Babylon is a man (Isaiah 14:16), and Satan is not a man.

"Lucifer" is used once in the King James Version as a mistranslation of the Hebrew for "howl" (Isaiah 14:12). The same exact Hebrew word is used in (Zechariah 11:2). Variations of the word are in (Isaiah 13:6; 14:31; 15:2,3; 16:7; 23:1,6,14; 52:5; 65:14).

Luke refers to Satan's action in response to the casting out of demons in Christ's name not the so called "fall of Satan" (Luke 10:18).

"From the beginning is the Adversary sinning." (1 John 3:8)

"He was a man-killer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, for truth is not in him. Whenever he may be speaking a lie, he is speaking of his own, for he is a liar, and the father of it." (John 8:44)

Satan's most effective deception is the church using corrupt translation of scripture and tradition of man to invalidate the word of God.

"You invalidate the word of God because of your tradition." (Matthew 15:6)

"For such are false apostles, fraudulent workers, being transfigured into apostles of Christ. And no marvel, for Satan himself is being transfigured into a messenger of light. It is no great thing, then, if his servants also are being transfigured as dispensers of righteousness -- whose consummation shall be according to their acts." (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)

The good news is evil will eventually be nullified at the consummation of the eons when God will be all in all (1 Corinthians 15:24,28).
 

[rosered]

Tom
It's the same Satan, sis, but church doctrine has folks believing he's in "hell" down underground torturing all the bad people who never "accepted Jesus as their savior" which is pretty rotten because a lot of those people never even heard of Jesus.


Tom , brother ,   although  the name of Jesus Christ was not revealed till the new testament     , Jesus Christ   was always   !!   HE is a part of God    whom never ever    was separated     from  GOD TILL  he come  to us was sent by the Father     in the form of  mankind ,    the body God gave Him    Hebrews 2  the whole chapter       GOD come down in a lower state to  bear with us in   the  fulness of  time     , for all to come in       ...    and   destroy death by the power of His cross in knowing    that it is finished already ...   though he the LAMB OF  GOD was slain  from the foundation of the world     ....    they did not know by died in faith believing   God and that was    counted to them for righteousness    we are not righteous either   as if we could save ourselves     , its  the work god has done though His son     , the part of Him that      did the HOLY  ACT OF     MERCY ON ALL      , heaven was opened for all      when Jesus rose up      to reign again with His Father 
  This to me is the renewing       and   regeneration of the HOLY SPIRIT       he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,       Now it is no longer a hidden secret    , we have no more excuses       , the open showing and revealing Christ    is   a done deal    , JESUS CHRIST  HIMSELF HOLDS THE DEAD AND  LIVING   ,HE  MAKES ALIVE  TO PRESENT TO THE FATHER   THE LIVING GOD


Tom
God created evil.

"Former of light and Creator of darkness, Maker of good and Creator of evil, I, Yahweh, make all these things." (Isaiah 45:7)

"I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens: it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it." (Ecclesiastes 1:13)

God gives Satan power to try us (Job 1:6-12,2:1-7), but Satan will eventually lose that power (1 Corinthians 15:24).

"Satan," Hebrew for "Adversary," also known as "the dragon," "the ancient serpent," and "the Slanderer," is head of the forces of evil.

Demons are deceiving spirits of the terrestrial realm whose chief is "Beelzeboul," or "Beezeboul."

"Apollyon" (Greek) and "Abaddon" (Hebrew), meaning "Destroyer," is the messenger of the abyss.

Satan was a sinner from the beginning, but here are a few verses relevant to the so called "fall of Satan" that is not in the scriptures.

Ezekiel refers to the king of Tyre not Satan (Ezekiel 28:15). The king of Tyre is a man, and Satan is not a man (Ezekiel 28:2,9).

   The ungenerated   mankind    is  subjected      to the  torment of satan adversarial   spirit in mankind    that eats and devours    one another    in the here and now  ,      the Lord is patiently waiting for them to repent      ,  if they do or not every knee will bow and tongue confess  Jesus Christ face to face   

we whom believe without being face to  face are blessed   in the here and now  by  faith   ,   this wonderful gift of God   ,are we better off than they are  /  in this life   yes , but no one will precede  or go ahead   of  those whom   are already there !!  receiving the blessing  or the correction        either or they  are  already     in Christ as   dead in sin or    dead in Him to be    judged   rightly by HIM  they also will be regenerated  after suffering loss and saved as by fire ,  we have already lost everything to gain Christ    in the here and now  as it is written    ,  HE IS THE HOLDER  AND JUDGE   OF THE DEAD AND LIVING,  NOT SATAN ! Giving Him credit were credit is due !

Tom
Isaiah refers to the King of Babylon in the future day of Israel's restoration not Satan's fall in the past (Isaiah 14:3-20). Then Satan will have been cast out of heaven (Revelation 12:9). The King of Babylon is a man (Isaiah 14:16), and Satan is not a man.

"Lucifer" is used once in the King James Version as a mistranslation of the Hebrew for "howl" (Isaiah 14:12). The same exact Hebrew word is used in (Zechariah 11:2). Variations of the word are in (Isaiah 13:6; 14:31; 15:2,3; 16:7; 23:1,6,14; 52:5; 65:14).

Luke refers to Satan's action in response to the casting out of demons in Christ's name not the so called "fall of Satan" (Luke 10:18).

"From the beginning is the Adversary sinning." (1 John 3:8)

"He was a man-killer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, for truth is not in him. Whenever he may be speaking a lie, he is speaking of his own, for he is a liar, and the father of it." (John 8:44)

Satan's most effective deception is the church using corrupt translation of scripture and tradition of man to invalidate the word of God.

"You invalidate the word of God because of your tradition." (Matthew 15:6)

"For such are false apostles, fraudulent workers, being transfigured into apostles of Christ. And no marvel, for Satan himself is being transfigured into a messenger of light. It is no great thing, then, if his servants also are being transfigured as dispensers of righteousness -- whose consummation shall be according to their acts." (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)

The good news is evil will eventually be nullified at the consummation of the eons when God will be all in all (1 Corinthians 15:24,28).





  God Himself    declares     that is the destruction of Babylon   whom rides this  scarlet beast  satan in the earth    He is the  one whom confused the languages Tom    in Gen 11   the tower of Babel       that  no one would  rise    in any way except by HIM ! 
    , and they Mystery   of all the ages will be made known to all    and it started in Jerusalem      70ad   Just as Jesus said it would .
   rev10  6and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, WHO CREATED HEAVEN AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE EARTH AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE SEA AND THE THINGS IN IT, that there will be delay no longer,

7but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets. 8Then the voice which I heard from heaven, I heard again speaking with me, and saying, "Go, take the book which is open in the hand of the angel who stands on the sea and on the land."


revelation 20      , I know death was  defeated at the Cross         of Christ and them vials    and bowels  have been poured out and trumpets   blowing   

have been going on ever since      , just look at the world and   we know its  true    !

  the prophets foretold  the events  in the old testament  and we see  with our  eyes    it is the same    today   judgment is and has  been  going on in the earth 

  for a long time     and salvation  through tribulation     and suffering     is as well         

  God is patient   long suffering none should perish  and the warnings are there      and we should all be   alert     and waiting   for Him   

   This whole world was to be  set on Fire when    Jesus  went to the cross [this baptism ]    ,   His  true statement is in Luke 12  49 , the fire sent is for   cleansing and destruction of the world    and fiery trials    to try us   all      ...     


      2Peter 3
3 ·My friends [L Beloved], this is [L now] the second letter I have written you [C the first is probably 1 Peter] to ·help your honest minds remember [L awaken/arouse your sincere understanding/intentions with a reminder].

2 I want you to ·think about [remember; recall] the words the holy prophets spoke in the past, and remember the command our Lord and Savior gave us through your apostles [Jude 17].

3 It is most important for you to understand what will happen in the last days. ·People [L Scoffers] will ·laugh at [scoff at; ridicule] you. They will ·live doing the evil things they want to do [indulge their own desires/lusts; Jude 18]. 4 [L And] They will say, "·Jesus promised to come again. Where is he [L Where is his promised coming]? [L For] Our ·fathers [ancestors] have ·died [L fallen asleep], but ·the world [L all things] continues the way it has been since ·it was made [it began with creation]."

5 But they ·do not want to remember [willfully forget/ignore] what happened long ago. By the word of God heaven ·was made [came to be; Gen. 1:3–20; Ps. 33:6; 148:5; Heb. 11:3], and the earth was made from water [Gen. 1:2; Ps. 24:2] and with water [Gen. 1:6–7, 9; Ps. 33:7; 136:6; Prov. 8:27–29]. 6 ·Then [L Through these; C either the water and the word of God, or the heavens and earth which poured forth their water; Gen. 7:11] the world was flooded and destroyed ·with water [L being deluged with water; Gen. 6—9]. 7 And that same word of God is ·keeping [reserving; holding in store] heaven and earth that we now have in order to be destroyed by fire [Deut. 32:22; Is. 66:15–16; Zeph. 1:18; Mal. 4:1]. They are being kept for the judgment day and the destruction of ·all who are against God [L the ungodly/impious people].




8 But do not forget [ignore; miss] this one thing, ·dear friends [L beloved]: To the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years is like one day [C our perception of time is not the same as God's; Ps. 90:4]. 9 The Lord is not ·slow [or late] in doing what he promised—the way some people understand ·slowness [lateness; Hab. 2:3]. But God is being patient with you [Ex. 34:6]. He does not want anyone to ·be lost [perish], but he wants all people to ·change their hearts and lives [L come to repentance].

10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief [C with surprise and danger]. The ·skies [heavens] will ·disappear [pass away; Matt. 5:18; 24:35; Mark 13:31; Luke 16:17; 21:33] with a loud noise. ·Everything in them [L The elements; C either everything in the cosmos or specifically the heavenly bodies] will be ·destroyed [or dissolved] by ·fire [heat; burning], and the earth and ·everything in it [or all the deeds done on it] will be exposed.[a] 11 In that way everything will be ·destroyed [or dissolved]. So what kind of people should you be? You should live holy lives and ·serve God [be godly/pious], 12 as you wait for and ·look forward to [strive for; or hurry; hasten] the coming of the day of God. When that day comes, the ·skies [or heavens] will be ·destroyed [or dissolved] with fire, and ·everything in them [the elements; 3:10] will melt with ·heat [fire; burning]. 13 But God made a promise to us [Is. 65:17; 66:22], and we are waiting for a new heaven and a new earth where ·goodness [righteousness] ·lives [makes its home].

14 [L Therefore] ·Dear friends [L Beloved], ·since [or while] you are waiting for this to happen, ·do your best [make every effort; strive] to be [L found] without ·sin [L spot] and without ·fault [L blemish; C the characteristics of the false teachers in 2:13]. ·Try [Make every effort; Strive] to be at peace with God. 15 ·Remember [Consider; Bear in mind] that ·we are saved because our Lord is patient [L our Lord's patience is our salvation; C his delay in coming allows more to be saved]. Our ·dear [L beloved] brother Paul told you the same thing when he wrote to you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes about ·this [L these things] in all his letters. Some things in Paul's letters are hard to understand, and people who are ·ignorant [untaught] and ·weak in faith [unstable] ·explain these things falsely [L twist/distort them]. They also ·falsely explain [L twist; distort] the other Scriptures, ·but they are destroying themselves by doing this [or which will lead to their destruction].

17 [L Therefore] ·Dear friends [L Beloved], since you already ·know [are forewarned] about this, be ·careful [on guard]. Do not let those ·evil [lawless; unprincipled] people lead you away ·by the wrong they do [or by their deception; or into error]. Be ·careful [on guard] so you will not fall from your own ·strong faith [stability; firm position]. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Glory be to him now and ·forever [L to the day of eternity]! ·Amen [So be it].
 
Warning not to go back into the world , but come out of it          ! 
We trust God for our salvation and  we also   have the same hope for all mankind

[marie glen]

Paul spoke of being caught up to the third heaven, and Genesis speaks of separating the heavens. There are hundreds of uses of heaven and heavens in the bible. Some can mean air or sky, some clearly mean more. I deduce that the lower heavens are the common functions of nature, air/wind, rain, sky, then the mid-heavens where the prince of the power of the air works along with the mind of man, then the higher levels being the abode of angels and the throne of God in the highest heaven, so that in defining "heaven" in scriptural terms one has to be a bit broader in scope than the "meaning of the word", because the word is applied to multiple levels with a unified theme.

The angels in judes 6 are bound in aidos chains under darkness reserved for the judgement of the day, so the concept of heaven also involves "inner" and "outer". The kingdom of heaven is within. Further in there is purer spirit, further out there is chaos, outer darkness.

I know we love to simplify, but not everything is simple, until our orientation is right. Then perspectives widen and deepen and perception clarifies as God takes us "up" and "in" the renewed mind and the wisdom of God in Christ, where we are "seated in the heavenly realms where abide all the spiritual blessings in Christ Jesus"(Eph)

   :iagree: too.. but I find myself always trying to balance the inner heavenlies and height, in discussion, with the outer and concrete, as I feel strongly that the basic lesson that God is illustrating to the world is - with Him there is Life and Paradise, real and solid beautiful and wondrous paradise.. inner, yes, but also outer.. It has crossed my mind that having a tendency to always want to balance and inject the concrete into the inner space realm topic, "the kingdom is within you" may be a tad obnoxious possibly to some :laughing7:

But it's a strong personal conviction with me, that God's creation is very, very wondrous, and that He has strong purpose for it, beyond these ages of man and a little beyond.. Maybe no one thinks the universe will disappear and only be inner, after the consummation to the all in all.. But it seems like that to me, whereas I believe the Word says the throne of God comes to the earth and He will tabernacle/dwell with mankind upon a gloriously restored and made new planet in an immense and glorious universe.. where the lion will eat straw like the ox, his people will be able to sleep in the forest.. under their own vine and fruit tree.. and the bear will graze with the cow.. after all weapons have been, literally, melted into gardening tools.. What better end to the lesson, than manually melting and reshaping man's weapons of warfare?

Now whereas I believe the inner lion will be tamed, I don't think that is to the exclusion of the outer creature God formed in Eden.. And it makes me uneasy if I think that is the belief and portrayal..

So I most often emphasize the physical.. the playing out in the outward as a whole, because that's where I believe the lesson is most illustrated..

Like most of us here, I'm not comfortable with anything like "this is what Jesus means when He said.." but prefer to look it up in the interlinear myself, to see if it's a case of His using "the" or "your".. etc.. [I'm thinking of `last day` here.. oops, is that a different  thread? :dontknow: Like with the creation of 'hell' - which may very well have been deliberate - but I also think when something isn't understood, we humans do a lot of somersaulting with the Word and whenever we do this, i believe it obscures and confuses His message..] I believe in the inner heights.. and more so as the day approaches(!) but I like to always balance talk of mysteries and such with the concrete outer where the same lesson is being concretely played out.. I'm sure "how" it plays and will play out (or not?) is another topic of many views.. :smile: [notice I didn't use  :eek: / :laughing7: just kidding!]
     :hiya:
"when the son of man returns will He find faith on the earth?' ..."feed my lambs.."

Oh! I almost forgot what I actually came to post!
I think you are right about "olam" - like other topics/perspectives, the ancient Hebrew perspective, I believe, is the most accurate.. So now when I read eonian or aionian, I am thinking olam..
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: thanks!

[marie glen]

Satan..

...many are of the opinion that kings of whatever empire, at the time, are types and shadows of the 'god'/"chief" of the world, the original adversary.. (like david was a type and shadow of Jesus)

Ezekiel 28, for instance, says the King of Tyre was perfect in his ways until iniquity was found in him.. I don't think any was perfect in their ways except Jesus.. So here especially is where is viewed the original of the type and shadow

and in Isaiah 14.. how art you fallen from heaven son of the dawn (or morning star? rev ch 1 "stars are angels" of if not, still Rev chapter 12 says the dragon, that old serpent and satan dragged a third of the stars)

...attachments as food for thought :Peace2: :smile:

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[eaglesway]

I agree Marie, and whatever the views of various members, a great thing that comes out of such an in depth and thorough discussion, is that evryone gets to see multiple views- our own various studies and those derived from the studies of others. A seeking student of the word is presented with a range of facts and interpretaions. They can put it through their own sifting and reach the conclusion that makes sense to them. I also see the kingdom as inner and outer.

The whole creation will be set free into the glorious liberty of the children of God, and eagerly awaits the revelation of the sons of God, as do we, awaiting our final and full adoption- the redemption of our bodies- which will be the testimony that our inward transformation is finally complete!

:dsunny: