what happens when you die?

[marie glen]

The efficacy of Christ's sacrifice is not limited by time - and was already in effect from the foundation of the world - it is only limited in man's mind by his thinking - man's thinking which seeks to limit the Lord God of all to man's own time, space and causation.

I've always wondered if Moses and Elijah when seen at Jesus' transfiguration, if they came (in) from beyond time.. :smile: ..so both pre and post the resurrections :mrflo:

[lastpost]

Or please may I put it another way, yes, please...

As love-thoughts thrown off from God, through His Christ
who willingly died and rose for each one before birth
to accompany each caretaker
who grabbed for power and opposed God's Will
and dragged their charges [nature] with them groaning
becoming the vaguest shadow of former Purity

The battlefield of life is unreal shadow
the Devil of lies imitates life to fool man
at the last moment he is content with the unreal
Christ is needed to overcome
thus the Cross with its Power
so life ever turns from unreal to real
so Blood gives consciousness to the race
to rise and meet the Lord as He approaches

I am not worthy Lord
As your child emerges into your Love
So Love fulfils itself
Now - Now is the time, unbroken eternity
To learn the simple things
So remembrance does not blot the joy
That the hungry were not fed

Peace and again Peace

[sheila]

         :girlheart: you speak so well..what I know in my spirit......

[lastpost]

Thank you Sheila. It would sound like idle tales to most people to tell them that I'm just a sinner trying to pass on what I have learnt from SPIRIT, coming to know Christ and His Love from Spirit before even before looking for Him in the Sacred Record left for mankind, and finding Him there too yet finding an awful lot of strange and disturbing things said about Him by His representatives - disturbing as it feels to me that they degrade Him and it hinders Him being known by sensible sentient people who look at the fruits and decide it's not for them. So, really, I can say that, in my opinion, while I'm very imperfect and a sinner, what I say is from Spirit, so if it resonates with ones spirit, then that's the reason and I've managed to pass on something, thank God.

[micah7:9]

Rev. 13:8 (Emp. Diaglott) And all who dwell on the Earth shall worship him, whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the scroll of the life of that lamb who was killed."
Rev 13:8  And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him, every one whose name hath not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that hath been slain.(ASV)
:Peace2:

[micah7:9]

My  :2c: I am 70 yrs. old with prostate cancer and if that does not cause my death something will cause me to quit this breath of life [which some contend is spirit] Alive= H2421 chay=to live. When I quit that breath my body(flesh-soil)will go back to the dust as with all flesh. I, that's me, see the word spirit in Ecc. 12:7 is the very breath I began with,  yes in a sense it is spirit for He is the Father of "spirits." (Heb. 12:9)

Ecc 3:19 For the destiny of the sons of humanity And the destiny of the beast, It is one destiny for them; As death is for this one, so is death for that one, And one spirit is for all; There is no advantage for the human over the beast, For the whole is vanity."Ecc 3:20 All are going to one place; All have come from the soil, and all return to the soil."Ecc 3:21 Who is knowing about the spirit of the sons of humanity, Whether it is ascending above, And the spirit of the beast, whether it is descending below to the earth? Ecc 3:22 So I saw that there is nothing better for a man than that he rejoices in his works Since that is his portion; For who can bring him to see what shall come after him?
Ecc 9:4 Indeed for anyone who is joined with all the living there is trust; For it is better for a living cur than a dead lion. Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die, But the dead know nothing whatsoever; There is no further hire for them; Indeed remembrance of them is forgotten."

But this I know Gal 2:20 With Christ have I been crucified, yet I am living; no longer I, but living in me is Christ. Now that which I am now living in flesh, I am living in faith that is of the Son of God, Who loves me, and gives Himself up for me."

Here we speculate and interpret.... 2Co 5:6 Being, then, courageous always, and aware that, being at home in the body, we are away from home from the Lord"
2Co 5:7 (for by faith are we walking, not by perception),
2Co 5:8 yet we are encouraged, and are delighting rather to be away from home out of the body and to be at home with the Lord."

He is Risen! :dsunny:

[lastpost]

Hebrews

13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.
14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

[lastpost]

I believe it is also harmful to be anticipating catastrophe

:iagree: When I grew up, I always was anticipating a catastrophe

Dear Abigail,

I wonder if I might give an opinion about a subtle point concerning anticipating or foretelling the calamities, the tribulations and the catastrophes:

The mind of the body needs to grasp what happens as a consequence of these things, and that is the linking up a person with the One - the only One - who when the time comes, is able to provide the help. It helps in a measure the release of the Divine within, a degree of emancipation from the stranglehold that the lesser self has on the spirit.

From the spiritual viewpoint, focussing on foretelling the coming of trouble itself: this concentrates the mind of the body on these things and therefore it weakens the individual instead of strengthening, because the focus is on the fear of the shadows rather than on grasping the underlying shaking free of the spirit from the suffocation of the baser self bound to the world.
 
Wisdom concerns the things which are of God. Concentrating on plagues, famines, storms and earthquakes is concentrating on knowledge of the things of the earth. Probing beneath the surface of earthly things is revealing earthly knowledge - and only in a measure at that - however it is not revealing wisdom, and wisdom is of God - and as we love the Master Jesus, we should always keep our thoughts on the highest and best.

I hope this subtle point has been brought out.

Finally, amongst all the trouble going on at this moment, may we prayerfully think of those left behind who have lost loved ones in the devastation of the recent Nepalese disaster. Thank you so much.

[eaglesway]

The efficacy of Christ's sacrifice is not limited by time - and was already in effect from the foundation of the world - it is only limited in man's mind by his thinking - man's thinking which seeks to limit the Lord God of all to man's own time, space and causation.

I've always wondered if Moses and Elijah when seen at Jesus' transfiguration, if they came (in) from beyond time.. :smile: ..so both pre and post the resurrections :mrflo:

Not at all an unreasonable theory or hypothysis. In fact, I think it quite likely, certainly possible.

[lastpost]

The efficacy of Christ's sacrifice is not limited by time - and was already in effect from the foundation of the world - it is only limited in man's mind by his thinking - man's thinking which seeks to limit the Lord God of all to man's own time, space and causation.

I've always wondered if Moses and Elijah when seen at Jesus' transfiguration, if they came (in) from beyond time.. :smile: ..so both pre and post the resurrections :mrflo:

Not at all an unreasonable theory or hypothysis. In fact, I think it quite likely, certainly possible.

Hi ew et al,

May I just say that when I was referring to the efficacy of Christ's Sacrifice, I was really meaning Christ in His omnipresent spiritual form as being the Essence and totality of Sacrificial Love and Wisdom, i.e. that Christ, the Beginning and the End, was, is and always will be, the Living Sacrifice - that is what Christ is, and such a Being does not change, even when uniting Himself with the Godhead.

I was meaning the Spiritual Christ in a pre-earth sense of which most are familiar...

"...the Lamb slain from the foundation [katabole: to conceive, laying down (of), founding] of the world [kosmos]" Revelation 13:8

...namely the Word who was with GOD from the so-named beginning...

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" John 1

I was trying to express that Christ has always been the combined union of sacrificial death and raised life - that is what Christ is, that is what Divine Love is - He would, does, and will, die for each and every one of His children over and over again - and I actually believe that He does this because His love is a true, pure and perfect Love - He is Love - and He ceaselessly gives HIMSELF in sacrifice for His children.

[Does not that thought cause the heart to cry out in love to the Saviour? Shall not more reverence and humility be laid upon us over and over again as Christ reveals Himself more and yet more deeply over the coming ages, as we are able to take it in?]

When each one of His little ones was birthed or about to be birthed, Christ saw the whole journey back to restored perfection, and His spiritual Heart of Love stopped out of the deepest and purest love for each one. He died and revived there and then for each one.


However, I am impelled to make somethng of a distinction between this reference to the omnipresent Spiritual Christ and His Manifestation in Jesus, born in Bethlehem in Judea.

The effect of His death as the Manifestation in Christ Jesus on the Cross 2,000 years ago, must not be underestimated, as this was simply an unthinkable blessing for young humanity.

Indeed, to the Cross He went, burdened with the sins of mankind. That deep step was cut by Him so that those who have lost their way might see the gleam of that shining step hewn out of the mountainside, hasten their footsteps and climb in turn. Christ died a terrible death so that we would remember Him; simply passing away naturally would not have had such an everlasting and deep influence.

It is probable that we would not have heard of Him had He not died on the Cross, nor would we be communicating as civilised people, for had Christ not gone to the Cross, we would be lower than the beasts of the field - but of course that is hypothetical because the perfect Divine Plan could never fail.

It was absolutely essential for that most gracious Sacrifice to take place in order that the influence that Christ Jesus would leave upon this world should resound throughout the generations, and thereby affect the hearts, minds and spirits of mankind from shore to shore.

Without the Crucifixion, the teachings and example of Jesus Christ would not have had the deep and everlasting effect that they have had.

Today, we have the Saviour, we have the Holy Spirit of God in Christ to redeem all mankind - and glory to Him, we need no other but Him. Christ, the Alpha and Omega, is All-knowledge, All-wisdom, All-Power, and man can knock and ask at the Door.

Peace ✞

[lastpost]

The WORD is TRUTH

Truth did not begin, therefore there is no new truth, only that which is revealed.

"...and there is not an entirely new thing under the sun"

As the child of GOD unfolds so is gained clearer vision, and the area for Christ-action is extended.
It is a duty to enter into the Realms of the Spirit to be with GOD, therefore the whole being must be prepared by consecration and prayer.
With GOD the protection against false teachers is assured.

The cause of GOD and every man can greatly benefit when there are three souls together in perfect communion.

Ecclesiastes 4:12
"Though one may be overpowered,
Two can defend themselves.
A cord of three strands is not quickly broken"

Leaning on external help is of no real benefit, only being guided by the Spirit within can Truth be revealed.
In Reality, the Spirit within cannot be influenced by the mind of man.
Enter the love released from the Christ within. The passion of giving will manifest and understanding will flood.

Peace ✞

[micah7:9]

I believe perhaps the class graduated and I was held behind. No problem. :HeartThrob:

[eaglesway]

The WORD is TRUTH

Truth did not begin, therefore there is no new truth, only that which is revealed.

"...and there is not an entirely new thing under the sun"

As the child of GOD unfolds so is gained clearer vision, and the area for Christ-action is extended.
It is a duty to enter into the Realms of the Spirit to be with GOD, therefore the whole being must be prepared by consecration and prayer.
With GOD the protection against false teachers is assured.

The cause of GOD and every man can greatly benefit when there are three souls together in perfect communion.

Ecclesiastes 4:12
"Though one may be overpowered,
Two can defend themselves.
A cord of three strands is not quickly broken"

Leaning on external help is of no real benefit, only being guided by the Spirit within can Truth be revealed.
In Reality, the Spirit within cannot be influenced by the mind of man.
Enter the love released from the Christ within. The passion of giving will manifest and understanding will flood.

Peace ✞

On the other hand, all truth is "new"...... for the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword. :o)

[lastpost]

Absolutely.

There is no truth whether past, present or future, of which All-Truth is unaware...

"Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please" Isaiah 46:9-10

Truth gives relative truth to each one, according to their need...

"I have yet many things to say to you, but ye are not able to bear them now"

All-Truth is too vast for us to take in...

"...God is greater than our heart, and knows all things" 1 John 3:20

When a child of God receives Divine truth, all they behold is made new by Him - the truth has altered their old understanding and perception to something new.

Yet, that truth has always been alive in the Living Truth...

"For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it completely" Psalm 139:4

Peace ✞

[rosered]

 :thumbsup:

  Yes it  is    ,  sure is new to the new believer too  :dsunny:  I learn something new  all the time  about the truth ...
  Example ..w hen first  starting
  I thought we    were    either or ,  all  good    , or  all evil ...   when the Lord divides  us  ..  I now Know it  is HIM whom  will  set apart from a whole and HE changes us  :HeartThrob:

I know now also .  we all start off as  both good and evil   mix   , it makes much more sense   and  all included   , instead of that "self righteous "   attitude    taken when you  think

your saved and everyone else   is doomed , and you are in   constant fear that you will loose    "your place "   at any time  in the Lord   ..

   As being " no rest for the wicked  "   '  deceiving your own heart     thinking you are  in good shape and    that is everyone elses problem to get  "it right "   by the works of the Law        , it is very confusing    to step into "religious territory  "  looking for  GOD ..
And things just not setting right and   feeling right   when you  listen .


Until I realized it is the Lord whom saves us all   , and I mean all        and   we are His help meet  .. as a loving union  , part of His own body    the hands and feet  according  to Paul  expounding on   this in 1Corth 12     His own glorified Body .  deception was inevitable    and a sure thing
you could bet your life on it and loose   it   for sure .

[micah7:9]

Isa 48:6  Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them.
Isa 48:7  They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them.

Jos 1:2  `Moses my servant is dead, and now, rise, pass over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I am giving to them, to the sons of Israel.

[marie glen]

Hi ew et al,

May I just say that when I was referring to the efficacy of Christ's Sacrifice, I was really meaning Christ in His omnipresent spiritual form as being the Essence and totality of Sacrificial Love and Wisdom, i.e. that Christ, the Beginning and the End, was, is and always will be, the Living Sacrifice - that is what Christ is, and such a Being does not change, even when uniting Himself with the Godhead.

I was meaning the Spiritual Christ in a pre-earth sense of which most are familiar...

"...the Lamb slain from the foundation [katabole: to conceive, laying down (of), founding] of the world [kosmos]" Revelation 13:8

...namely the Word who was with GOD from the so-named beginning...

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" John 1

I was trying to express that Christ has always been the combined union of sacrificial death and raised life - that is what Christ is, that is what Divine Love is - He would, does, and will, die for each and every one of His children over and over again - and I actually believe that He does this because His love is a true, pure and perfect Love - He is Love - and He ceaselessly gives HIMSELF in sacrifice for His children.

[Does not that thought cause the heart to cry out in love to the Saviour? Shall not more reverence and humility be laid upon us over and over again as Christ reveals Himself more and yet more deeply over the coming ages, as we are able to take it in?]

When each one of His little ones was birthed or about to be birthed, Christ saw the whole journey back to restored perfection, and His spiritual Heart of Love stopped out of the deepest and purest love for each one. He died and revived there and then for each one.


However, I am impelled to make somethng of a distinction between this reference to the omnipresent Spiritual Christ and His Manifestation in Jesus, born in Bethlehem in Judea.

The effect of His death as the Manifestation in Christ Jesus on the Cross 2,000 years ago, must not be underestimated, as this was simply an unthinkable blessing for young humanity.

Indeed, to the Cross He went, burdened with the sins of mankind. That deep step was cut by Him so that those who have lost their way might see the gleam of that shining step hewn out of the mountainside, hasten their footsteps and climb in turn. Christ died a terrible death so that we would remember Him; simply passing away naturally would not have had such an everlasting and deep influence.

It is probable that we would not have heard of Him had He not died on the Cross, nor would we be communicating as civilised people, for had Christ not gone to the Cross, we would be lower than the beasts of the field - but of course that is hypothetical because the perfect Divine Plan could never fail.

It was absolutely essential for that most gracious Sacrifice to take place in order that the influence that Christ Jesus would leave upon this world should resound throughout the generations, and thereby affect the hearts, minds and spirits of mankind from shore to shore.

Without the Crucifixion, the teachings and example of Jesus Christ would not have had the deep and everlasting effect that they have had.

Today, we have the Saviour, we have the Holy Spirit of God in Christ to redeem all mankind - and glory to Him, we need no other but Him. Christ, the Alpha and Omega, is All-knowledge, All-wisdom, All-Power, and man can knock and ask at the Door.

Peace ✞

   :iagree: I agree! I think of it as Jesus on the cross (His love expressed) as a strong enough `symbol` to pierce every psyche.. ultimately reaching every hardened heart.. I believe every heart will be naturally softened by that strong love, the image of His mistreated bloody form hanging upon the cross, hanging, because of His and the Father's so strong and self sacrificial LOVE.. "If I be lifted up from the earth" Jesus said, "I will draw all to me".
    :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[rosered]

Isa 48:6  Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them.
Isa 48:7  They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them.

Jos 1:2  `Moses my servant is dead, and now, rise, pass over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I am giving to them, to the sons of Israel.

This is all well and good Micah ,
  but it was the time of those still held in bondage  of sin    and still under the law , all the prophets    spoke of the warning of destruction  and the good things to come ,  that being  JESUS CHRIST   coming    to save the world   


   It was not until ,  I knew  ,   By  Jesus   own words telling us the Kingdom suffered   much violence  , by men taking it be force   ,    until Jesus Come on the scene to show them the only way  to please God would be by his    own    sacrifice   "   of Himself  "    gift of grace ,  open show of it  though  the Lamb had been slain from the foundation of the world        ,, that was no longer a hidden thing , but an open  ACT       of Him laying down His  own  life      , and no one took it

from Him      , We know Noah received grace and truth and Life   and so did Abraham , David   and  many , many  did , but the open show   changed the  course   , that suffering though the violence  would not be the requirement   now   ,   for all   to enter  now  as they would    come needing help and  mercy

  Remember Jesus telling the sons of thunder     they did not know what manner of spirit they were of ? as they wanted to bring fire down and destroy the city for not receiving Jesus Christ .......

It was   the old way  , by force and violence  , but God always sent a prophet to warn them first to repent  or they would suffer   for their  rebellion

  But JESUS COME TO SAVE THE WORLD not destroy it     ,     HIS  WAY IS, BY  LOVE , MERCY AND GREAT GRACE   ,,      the non violence   to enter the gates to the Kingdom of God  , the realm of the  Spirit and Truth        though His gifts  of Himself   and His presence   within them


His FATHERS WORK  and His work ," together  as" ONE "    , and to their  own Glory !!!    :HeartThrob:

[micah7:9]

Isa 48:6  Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them.
Isa 48:7  They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them.

Jos 1:2  `Moses my servant is dead, and now, rise, pass over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I am giving to them, to the sons of Israel.

This is all well and good Micah ,
  but it was the time of those still held in bondage  of sin    and still under the law , all the prophets    spoke of the warning of destruction  and the good things to come ,  that being  JESUS CHRIST   coming    to save the world   


   It was not until ,  I knew  ,   By  Jesus   own words telling us the Kingdom suffered   much violence  , by men taking it be force   ,    until Jesus Come on the scene to show them the only way  to please God would be by his    own    sacrifice   "   of Himself  "    gift of grace ,  open show of it  though  the Lamb had been slain from the foundation of the world        ,, that was no longer a hidden thing , but an open  ACT       of Him laying down His  own  life      , and no one took it

from Him      , We know Noah received grace and truth and Life   and so did Abraham , David   and  many , many  did , but the open show   changed the  course   , that suffering though the violence  would not be the requirement   now   ,   for all   to enter  now  as they would    come needing help and  mercy

  Remember Jesus telling the sons of thunder     they did not know what manner of spirit they were of ? as they wanted to bring fire down and destroy the city for not receiving Jesus Christ .......

It was   the old way  , by force and violence  , but God always sent a prophet to warn them first to repent  or they would suffer   for their  rebellion

  But JESUS COME TO SAVE THE WORLD not destroy it     ,     HIS  WAY IS, BY  LOVE , MERCY AND GREAT GRACE   ,,      the non violence   to enter the gates to the Kingdom of God  , the realm of the  Spirit and Truth        though His gifts  of Himself   and His presence   within them


His FATHERS WORK  and His work ," together  as" ONE "    , and to their  own Glory !!!    :HeartThrob:

I believe this for then, now, and will be......Isa 48:6  Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them.
Isa 48:7  They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them.

[rosered]

  Dear Micah , you are welcome to stay under the law   all you want brother  :thumbsup:


  God has  set both ways to  bring about   life and death   and   inherit   ''all things ''   though Jesus Christ     

    HEBREWS 8 The New Covenant
...12"FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR INIQUITIES, AND I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SINS NO MORE."


13When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

the old heavens and earth    were the old testament   , the new heavens   and earth are in Christ   Jesus   ..   the LIGHT OF DAY


the old testament is being fulfilled in Jesus Christ        when the new comes    for us individually   and  according to  the desire of God   to give  the increase

   the glass  darkly we look though is the shadow of the good things to come in the LIGHT AND KNOWLEDGE OF JESUS CHRIST

  the old testament  and covenant   is that shadow and the light of the moon     ....   the promise of Jesus Christ  to come .  Rev 12

  WE LOVE THEM  ALL       :HeartThrob:

   the Sun and the Day   are the new covenant  being done perfectly  by His Spirit & truth  :dsunny:

[lastpost]

Isa 48:6  Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them.
Isa 48:7  They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them.

I think it might help to first picture All-Truth as being One with the Supreme Being, GOD, and that He existed before this tiny earth was brought into being for the raising up of man.

All-Truth has always been aware of every future creation (manifestation of His Mind) to come into Creation [only man's limitations would assume that GOD could not know what He would create].

The things He manifested (created new) were hidden from man because they were in un-manifested form (they had not been created in Creation), but they were always known in His Divine Being which is SPIRIT - yet unknown to man.

And I firmly believe nobody will become omniscient once alive in God's Greater World - meaning that there are many, many more 'new' things in store for each one [Thank GOD].

[rosered]

Isa 48:6  Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them.
Isa 48:7  They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them.

I think it might help to first picture All-Truth as being One with the Supreme Being, GOD, and that He existed before this tiny earth was brought into being for the raising up of man.

All-Truth has always been aware of every future creation (manifestation of His Mind) to come into Creation [only man's limitations would assume that GOD could not know what He would create].

The things He manifested (created new) were hidden from man because they were in un-manifested form (they had not been created in Creation), but they were always known in His Divine Being which is SPIRIT - yet unknown to man.

And I firmly believe nobody will become omniscient once alive in God's Greater World - meaning that there are many, many more 'new' things in store for each one [Thank GOD].

:iagree:  Amen , I do believe   that last post        made  by me was   a bit harsh  , sorry Micah , I was locked up tight under the  law till the Lord comes to release that hold of death on every last one of us , knowing I could do nothing in my own  power nor blood to    fulfill Gods will   desire ..  we can only share our own experiences and that does not make any sense to any one  till  they experience them for themselves......

  Its not until the Lamb of God opens the seals of the book do any of us even have a clue   to what the mystery   is ,of Gods plan  until  , He desires you to Know   Him...   on the level  He Alone has  given ..     

  but   struggle is the  only thing   that    we  remember  after coming out of  from under   the law    and  so true   the on going  Victory is won  in and though Jesus Christ     our everything !!   :HeartThrob:

[Tom]

I think the bottom line is "what happens when you die" is you're oblivious, figuratively sleeping, unseen until the resurrection when Christ will call you in a changed spiritual body, immortalized, to meet him in the air.

"The living know that they shall die, But the dead know nothing whatsoever." (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

"Now we do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who are reposing, lest you may sorrow according as the rest, also, who have no expectation. For, if we are believing that Jesus died and rose, thus also, those who are put to repose, will God, through Jesus, lead forth together with Him. For this we are saying to you by the word of the Lord, that we, the living, who are surviving to the presence of the Lord, should by no means outstrip those who are put to repose, for the Lord Himself will be descending from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the Chief Messenger, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ shall be rising first. Thereupon we, the living who are surviving, shall at the same time be snatched away together with them in clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And thus shall we always be together with the Lord. So that, console one another with these words." (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18)

"Thus also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is roused in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor; it is roused in glory. It is sown in infirmity; it is roused in power. It is sown a soulish body; it is roused a spiritual body. If there is a soulish body, there is a spiritual also. Thus it is written also, The first man, Adam, "became a living soul:" the last Adam a vivifying Spirit. But not first the spiritual, but the soulish, thereupon the spiritual. The first man was out of the earth, soilish; the second Man is the Lord out of heaven. Such as the soilish one is, such are those also who are soilish, and such as the Celestial One, such are those also who are celestials. And according as we wear the image of the soilish, we should be wearing the image also of the Celestial. Now this I am averring, brethren, that flesh and blood is not able to enjoy an allotment in the kingdom of God, neither is corruption enjoying the allotment of incorruption. Lo! a secret to you am I telling! We all, indeed, shall not be put to repose, yet we all shall be changed, in an instant, in the twinkle of an eye, at the last trump. For He will be trumpeting, and the dead will be roused incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal put on immortality. Now, whenever this corruptible should be putting on incorruption and this mortal should be putting on immortality, then shall come to pass the word which is written, Swallowed up was Death by Victory. Where, O Death, is your victory? Where, O Death, is your sting?" (1 Corinthians 15:42-55)

[rosered]

  Hi Tom  I do believe they do RISE   IN CHRIST   into the knowledge of God   by the Spirit of truth   

tell the world   about this power of God   though Jesus Christ ! 
  it is true we are not the God of the dead  but the LIVING   FOR ALL LIVE TO HIM !!     

Matt 10.

...7"And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.


' 8"Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Freely you received, freely give. 9"Do not acquire gold, or silver, or copper for your money belts,

The beast seat is the one  who stays in the darkness      this outer darkness   is void and with out God or Christ in its kingdom   , for me this is exactly what  we   experiences before the Lord come to save us from ourselves     

Everyone born is like a beast in the sense of it runs on instinct     to kill its prey  or   fight to survive  , many scriptures  speaks of mankind being like the beasts  in nature

     

And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
  can a natural beast repent of its deeds ?   its very nature ?       or is the scriptures showing us our own carnal nature is like a beast before Him ?

I believe we are most ignorant and dead to God in the beastly carnal   nature   first    ... 
  every last one of   us before the  conception  and     new birthing   of the sons of God  to Gods glory   
Revelation 16: 10-11

  We can look upon  the natural  truths and see the Spiritual truths   now   also

 

[Abigail]

I believe it is also harmful to be anticipating catastrophe

:iagree: When I grew up, I always was anticipating a catastrophe

Dear Abigail,

I wonder if I might give an opinion about a subtle point concerning anticipating or foretelling the calamities, the tribulations and the catastrophes:

The mind of the body needs to grasp what happens as a consequence of these things, and that is the linking up a person with the One - the only One - who when the time comes, is able to provide the help. It helps in a measure the release of the Divine within, a degree of emancipation from the stranglehold that the lesser self has on the spirit.

From the spiritual viewpoint, focussing on foretelling the coming of trouble itself: this concentrates the mind of the body on these things and therefore it weakens the individual instead of strengthening, because the focus is on the fear of the shadows rather than on grasping the underlying shaking free of the spirit from the suffocation of the baser self bound to the world.
 
Wisdom concerns the things which are of God. Concentrating on plagues, famines, storms and earthquakes is concentrating on knowledge of the things of the earth. Probing beneath the surface of earthly things is revealing earthly knowledge - and only in a measure at that - however it is not revealing wisdom, and wisdom is of God - and as we love the Master Jesus, we should always keep our thoughts on the highest and best.

I hope this subtle point has been brought out.

Finally, amongst all the trouble going on at this moment, may we prayerfully think of those left behind who have lost loved ones in the devastation of the recent Nepalese disaster. Thank you so much.

Lastpost, as I understand you well, you're saying to focus on our Saviour instead of on our fears?
I must honestly say this is the greatest struggle in my life. I have a tendency to think God is indifferent (I think this comes from free-will-teaching & faith movement: save yourself by believing right!) Yet recently I find myself being afraid God may allow terrible things to happen in our lifes to teach us. I feel like I'm too much viewing God from a distance instead of relating to Him and talking to Him about everything.