what happens when you die?

[Tom]

I think death is the absence of life, but it can be portrayed figuratively as sleep. I also think the perception of time can be easily distorted. I think God uses death to synchronize all the body clocks of mankind that have lived and died through the eons to the beginning of our new life which will be beyond death, and I think we'll probably even perceive time, space, and matter differently then. I've said before that being roused to immortality may seem to our consciousness as if no time has passed at all even if we've been dead for thousands of years, but I don't think that means we will actually have still been alive all that time.

[sheila]

 I have heard that when the dead are raised[the earth must give back her dead] that the earth gives them back in the form[appearance] that

she recieved them..in order that they may be reckognized as once dead,and resurrected. And then after that they may take on any form

they please.

[rosered]

 
  My biggest problem with this thinking is bypassing the Cross of Jesus Christ and Him crucified  ,   Tom and the finished work he done


  What good is it if the dead are not raised ? 1COR 15 31I affirm, brethren, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

32If from human motives I fought with wild beasts at Ephesus, what does it profit me?


If the dead are not raised, LET US EAT AND DRINK, FOR TOMORROW WE DIE.

33Do not be deceived: "Bad company corrupts good morals."...

ROMANS 14 8for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord;


therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.


9For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.


10But you, why do you judge your brother?

Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt?

For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.

I do believe those are being judged  as to the left and right hand of God  now ...


For me only.  I have more of the urgency to believe  the time is now    and this other ages and eons man has built   upon    we know the days of our flesh is for suffering

is great cause for concerns    , I believe there is a gathering into Christ   going on and its  spoken about  as  seek out your own salvation with fear and trembling


PHIL 2 Shining as Stars
12So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;   13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.


no man knows    , but the SPIRIT AND LIFE does   and that is the divisions   Christ come to do   LUKE   12 49   THE HOLY SPIRIT AND FIRE  DIVIDING THE TONGUES
    47 "The ·servant [slave] who knows what his master wants but is not ·ready [prepared], or who does not do what the master wants, will ·be beaten with many blows [beaten severely]! 48 But the servant who does not know what his master wants and does things that should be punished will be beaten ·with few blows [lightly; C a metaphor for judgment]. From everyone who has been given much, much will be ·demanded [required]. And from the one trusted with much, much more will be expected.

Jesus Causes Division
49 "I came to ·set [bring; cast] fire to the world, and I wish it were already ·burning [kindled]! 50 I have a baptism [C a metaphor for suffering, portrayed as an overwhelming deluge] ·to suffer through [L to be baptized with], and I feel very ·troubled [distressed] until it is over. 51 Do you think I came to give peace to the earth? No, I tell you, I came to ·divide it [bring division]. 52 [L For] From now on, a ·family [L house] with five people will be divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 They will be divided: father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law [Mic. 7:6]."

Understanding the Times
54 Then Jesus said to the ·people [crowds], "When you see clouds coming up in the west, [L immediately] you say, 'It's going to rain,' and [L so; thus] it happens. 55 When you feel the wind begin to blow from the south [C the desert], you say, 'It will be a hot day,' and it happens. 56 Hypocrites! You know how to ·understand [interpret] the appearance of the earth and sky. Why don't you ·understand [know how to interpret] ·what is happening now [this present time; C the time of the coming of the Kingdom]?

[Tom]

I don't know how different we'll look, but I think we're going to feel a whole lot better when we're immortalized.

[Tom]

Who said "the dead aren't raised?"

[Tom]

I'm not SAD-you-see?

[Tom]

I'm just saying that nobody's been immortalized yet but Christ, but our time is coming.

[micah7:9]

Very good posts. My offering:

When a person dies it is likened to sleep.  Death is Sleep. Not death is like sleep BUT death is sleep according go God.

Death has two different aspects:
1.   The ACT OF DYING.
2.   The STATE OF BEING DEAD.

All have already, or will eventually, experience "the act of dying or termination of life.  However those who die never experience the "state of being dead."

(Ecclesiastes 9:5)."For the living know that they will die but the dead know nothing..."

Man does not have an immortal soul.  The dead DO NOT HAVE consciousness.  The spirit of a person upon death returns to God who gave it.

Ecc 12:7  Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The spirit in man has no consciousness unless it is united with a body, a spiritual body or a physical body. 

(James 2:26)"For as the body without the spirit is dead . .

At death, the body dies and becomes useless to the spirit that inhabited it.

In other words the spirit in man can only be conscious if it is within, a part of,  a living physical body or a living spiritual body.
Not only is there no consciousness in death, but there is no consciousness OF death either.

"The living KNOW... the dead know NOTHING." The dead don't know that they are dead. When a person dies, that person does not know that they are dead are dead!   Not only will you never know that you are dead, but from your perspective you never even lost consciousness.

From our perspective we will never "know" what it is like to be dead. Oh we will probably die some day (assuming that Jesus Christ doesn't come first), but we will never know that we were dead; we will never know what it is to BE dead, or to BE unconscious.

But all would experience "dying." Most (albeit not all) people who die, experience dying, but they do NOT experience death itself.  It is impossible for someone to experience the death state, seeing that where there is no consciousness, there is no experience, and therefore there is no memory of it.  It is obvious by the abundant scriptural proof that all conscious thought and life-functions cease at death.  Even if there was no such thing as a resurrection from the dead, the dead would never know that they died and would never know that they are dead.

We may all go through the fear of dying or even the pain of dying, but there is no pain and no fear in death itself. No one who is presently dead is aware of it.

In Deut. 31:16, first part of the verse,.  God prepared Moses for death with the following:

(Deut. 31:16). "And the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, you shall rest (sleep - AKJ)  [Hebrew: shakab—to lie down, to rest, to sleep, to decease] with your fathers..."

And concerning the death of Lazarus, the brother of Martha and Mary.  When Lazarus was dead Jesus said:

(John 11:11 - 14)"Our friend Lazarus sleeps: but I go, that I may awake him up".


Jesus referred to death as sleep.  Death in the grave is a sleep with no consciousness'.  Jesus performed a miracle showing that He could awake someone from death and the grave.  He has the power to do that.  And He will bring life to the dead who are in Christ at His coming.  This is the resurrection to immortality of God's elect.  Resurrection into the Kingdom of God.

Sleeping in death is a way that God can set people aside for a little while.  Centuries and millennia will pass for those who died and sleep, yet they have no knowledge of death.    The billions of humans who have lived and died over the centuries are completely unaware of the passage of time.  The interim period between the moment of death, when their conscious thoughts ceased, and the instant when they awake to life again at a resurrection does not exist for them.  It will be as if they had gone to sleep and awakened without dreaming  -  the passage of time is meaningless to them.

Paul made the following statements in II Cor 5: 1-8:
From the CLV:

Chapter 5
1 For we are aware that, if our terrestrial tabernacle house should be demolished, we have a building of God, a house not made by hands, eonian, in the heavens.
2 For in this also we are groaning, longing to be dressed in our habitation which is out of heaven,
3 if so be that, being dressed also, we shall not be found naked.
4 For we also, who are in the tabernacle, are groaning, being burdened, on which we are not wanting to be stripped, but to be dressed, that the mortal may be swallowed up by life.
5 Now He Who produces us for this same longing is God, Who is also giving us the earnest of the spirit.
6 Being, then, courageous always, and aware that, being at home in the body, we are away from home from the Lord
7 (for by faith are we walking, not by perception),
8 yet we are encouraged, and are delighting rather to be away from home out of the body and to be at home with the Lord.

It is interesting how some preachers of today's Christianity misrepresent this 8th verse. They read it as saying " We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body IS to be present with the Lord", thus supporting the immortality of the soul doctrine.  Oh those misinformed preachers, if they only understood, the word is AND not IS, and tells us  there is a length of time from the time one dies and to the time of  resurrection.

Yes, Paul knew that once he died the next waking moment would be resurrected with a new body, a spiritual body.

(I Cor. 15:49).  This will happen in an instant (from this physical life to the next spiritual life without missing a heart beat), in the twinkling of an eye, nonetheless, it would have to wait until "the last trump' (I Cor. 15:51 - 52).  But to Paul from his perspective, it would only be but a moment in time.

Death is an enemy, but it will be abolished" (I Cor. 15:26 - The last enemy that will be destroyed is death) by the One who has already had victory over it. And although we will never experience being dead, we certainly experience the loss of our loved ones who have died, and our family and friends will experience loss when we die.

It very comforting to know that those who are dead do not experience the state of being dead.  And we also who are alive, will never experience being dead.  We may die before the return of Christ, but we will never experience being dead.  From our own perspective, all that we will ever know is life!

I believe you spoke well :dsunny: Oh happy day...He Is Risen!

[Tom]

Death is a return.

"I know that You are turning me back to death, To that house appointed for all the living." (Job 30:23)

The body returns to the soil.

"In the sweat of your face shall you eat your bread, till you return to the ground, for from it are you taken, for soil you are, and to soil are you returning." (Genesis 3:19)

The spirit, the imperceptible power of life, returns to God.

"And the soil returns to the earth just as it was, And the spirit, it returns to the One, Elohim, Who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:7)

The soul returns to the "unseen."

"The wicked shall return to the unseen, All the nations, forgetful of Elohim." (Psalms 9:17)

"For Thou wilt not be forsaking my soul in the unseen, Nor wilt Thou be giving Thy Benign One to be acquainted with decay." (Acts 2:27)

"Perceiving this before, he speaks concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that He was neither forsaken in the unseen, nor was His flesh acquainted with decay." (Acts 2:31) 

[eaglesway]

It is not obvious to me that Christ only is immortalized, since there was a first fuits resurrection that came out of the graves the day He was crucified. Ther also was someone who met John in His revelation, saying, "Don't bow to me, I am of your brothers the prophets".

Also,Hebrews 12

Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 [a]fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God......

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of [h]angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

2 Corinthians 5:8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

There are many indicators that some of the spirits of men who have died are present with the Lord. In a wide house there are many vessels, some for noble, some for ignoble use.

God is not boxed in by our paradigms, and usually wherever there is a paradox in the word, there are exceptions to somebodies rules. :o)

It is far from scripturally obvious, unless we only read the words that support our position.

[Tom]

We've talked about this scripture before and disagreed on who immortality applies to. I said Christ, and you said the Father. I think "immortality" is what mortals will experience when we're changed just as happened to Christ. 

"I am charging you in the sight of God, Who is vivifying all, and of Jesus Christ, Who testifies in the ideal avowal before Pontius Pilate, that you keep this precept unspotted, irreprehensible, unto the advent of our Lord, Christ Jesus, which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian! Amen!" (1 Timothy 6:13-16)

I think this scripture describes the 3 step process of all mankind being vivified with Christ being the first, believers next when we're snatched away to meet Christ in the air, and unbelievers at the consummation of the eons when death is abolished.

"Yet now Christ has been roused from among the dead, the Firstfruit of those who are reposing. For since, in fact, through a man came death, through a Man, also, comes the resurrection of the dead. For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified. Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence; thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power. For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy is being abolished: death. For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him. Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all." (1 Corinthians 15:20-28)

[micah7:9]

No much to ad except more assumption, speculation, and interpretation and of course orthodox theological pillar thought. Far as I can see death has been defeated.... yet it is what is awaited.  :Peace2:

[joeteekay]

No much to ad except more assumption, speculation, and interpretation and of course orthodox theological pillar thought. Far as I can see death has been defeated.... yet it is what is awaited.  :Peace2:

Thanks Micah  :thumbsup:

[eaglesway]

Yes, I agree Micah. This is one of those issues where scriptures can be stacked and shuffled, either way, but it isn't necessary because the key thing, the message of the gospel is that Jesus Christ died to reconcile and restore all.

As in Adam all men died, so also in Christ shall all men be made alive, each in his own order.

For that we can all praise God together in one mind and one accord! :dsunny:

[lastpost]

Yes, I agree Micah. This is one of those issues where scriptures can be stacked and shuffled, either way, but it isn't necessary because the key thing, the message of the gospel is that Jesus Christ died to reconcile and restore all.

And what then even if there was but a small chance that the Christ-Life never stops?

What does Divine Love ask for and deserve?

So the veil is rent in twain, and now is the time to see the pain and anguish of the devoted wife who tried with all her heart to assuage the grieving husband she left behind, knowing it was his Divine right in Christ.

Now is the time to see the child in Christ carrying the pitcher full of tears for the heart-broken parents who were told by their teachers she had no awareness of Life.

Now is the time to know that the Good Lord holds naught against them even though He too felt the pain their denial caused.

Yet now is the time they find that their well-intentioned mental reasoning is but paltry excuse when they had the chance to know, they had the opportunity to delve deeper into sacrificial Love, to reach out with the heart, to lay aside the theory of the mind for the longing of the heart in Christ.

[Tom]

I agree there's a lot of doctrine to go round and round about enough to make you crazy, but something most of us here agree on is that Christ's blood on the cross reconciles all on earth and in the heavens. Thank God.

[eaglesway]

I have to tell the truth. I don't think it matters much, nor is it a critical distinction of any kind. It is peripheral theology. Whether we sleep, or whther we cease to exist until the resurrection, or whether all go instantly at death into the presence of the Lord, or whther only the overcomers do( I think I listed the major positions :o).

The Good News is not wrapped around issues such as these. It is concerned with my destiny in response to the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus and the destiny of all mankind as the result of that sacrifice, and His Lordship, Love and Life.

The rapture, free will/sov, Trinity/not trinity- all things we can discuss as topics of interest.....but none worth beatin a dead horse over for the eighty eight time LOLOL

:swordfight: :bdh: :director: :blah: :blahgreen: :BangHead:

[Tom]

Yeah, people believe all kinds of crazy stuff about a lot of things in life. Sometimes I think it's better to just be amused instead of getting stressed out about it. Some of the stuff we believe in the name of religion, if it wasn't considered sacred, would probably be considered mental illness. I prefer to laugh at the craziness in the world rather than get mad about it. It ain't that serious. I think the important thing is to try to be a willing channel of God's love in this world that needs it bad.

[Abigail]

I truly find this sad. I would tell children that when a person dies they go to be with Jesus. I personally believe to tell them otherwise is a degradation of Love and not in tune with the world that an innocent and [as yet] un-programmed child sees in the life-patterns of the world around them.

I believe that the test in everything is that if something does not come up to the highest standard of love, then it is not of the God who is Love.

Yes, I believe when something brings anguish, that's not a good fruit. Lately I have told my children once you'll die, you'll be with 'Daddy God'. My 3yo keeps telling our (not born again) elderly neighbour 'went to be with God', and I leave it like that. Since my older children (8,11,12) use to ask more thoroughly, I just want to know how to answer them. And to people, who raise their eyebrows when my children declare: my mother says you don't go to heaven when you die...

I'll be reading and studying the rest of your responds this week, brothers and sisters, since they are many! Thank you all for sharing your thoughts.

[rosered]

I truly find this sad. I would tell children that when a person dies they go to be with Jesus. I personally believe to tell them otherwise is a degradation of Love and not in tune with the world that an innocent and [as yet] un-programmed child sees in the life-patterns of the world around them.

I believe that the test in everything is that if something does not come up to the highest standard of love, then it is not of the God who is Love.

Yes, I believe when something brings anguish, that's not a good fruit. Lately I have told my children once you'll die, you'll be with 'Daddy God'. My 3yo keeps telling our (not born again) elderly neighbour 'went to be with God', and I leave it like that. Since my older children (8,11,12) use to ask more thoroughly, I just want to know how to answer them. And to people, who raise their eyebrows when my children declare: my mother says you don't go to heaven when you die...

I'll be reading and studying the rest of your responds this week, brothers and sisters, since they are many! Thank you all for sharing your thoughts.

  Lovely thoughts Abigail & lastpost   !   :HeartThrob:

Little children are the sweetest and trusting   most precious    ones and a simple answer is   best !  :icon_flower:

  Death is one of the most  common questions they want to know about ,along with other gatherings of people  they seem to question   ..
and some of the hardest to   share and explain   to anyone .

[eaglesway]

Let the little children come unto me :o)

[sheila]

 :thumbsup: prevent them not...

[marie glen]

I believe that the test in everything is that if something does not come up to the highest standard of love, then it is not of the God who is Love.

Yes, I believe when something brings anguish, that's not a good fruit. Lately I have told my children once you'll die, you'll be with 'Daddy God'. My 3yo keeps telling our (not born again) elderly neighbour 'went to be with God', and I leave it like that. Since my older children (8,11,12) use to ask more thoroughly, I just want to know how to answer them. And to people, who raise their eyebrows when my children declare: my mother says you don't go to heaven when you die...

I'll be reading and studying the rest of your responds this week, brothers and sisters, since they are many! Thank you all for sharing your thoughts.

   :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I so totally agree.. when someone loses a loved one, I always agree and even say they are with our Lord.. I always agree they are in a better place.. they are in valley above.. When teaching my children and grand children, it's according to age.. "with Jesus" when they are young.. My youngest grand daughter is six now and she has asked me about death, so i told her about "sleeping" and being woke up when Jesus returns, and I see now that as of now she sees death as almost nothing.. (whereas 'gramps' and i have lost too many loved ones and friends, and i cannot conceive of any of them being 'gone' like an atheist would.. seems inconceivable, besides God is Perfect, and Perfection can lose nothing.. :smile: )

I have wondered if God has raised some, or also wondered if those who came out of the grave at Jesus's death (not resurrection, which is curious to me) was a momentary thing... But mostly the thing that most sticks out to me is simply the idea of we humans having inherent immortality.. (Jesus said the Father has given to Him to have "life in Himself")

But, like others, errors don't overly bug me.. Because all Truth will be fully known and understood.. "nothing will remain hidden"

I didn't get to read the whole thread, but I think Joeteekay posted some great verses.. and I loved Sheila's post, I've often wondered at what age we rise at.. and her post sounds logical!
     :smile:

[rosered]

  Hi   Marie !!  :dsunny:


I just wanted to  say after reading your post ,    I can agree with  some  of it as well

  But I have  come to the conclusion    that Jesus Christ   is where all will be gathered into HIM   the dead and living  [1 Corinth 15 ] to be presented to GOD   
WHO IS SO HOLY ,PURE and beyond a human concept   ,   that we have  much to look forward to ..

Now for me the judgment for some  is  now and some   are not till the physically die
  those whom are  made   pure though   many sufferings    in the world  being refined , there is a gathering before him in Revelations that have come out of the tribulation  that are made pure and  given  white robes   , for me this is the covering of Christ  as to be further clothed upon , just what this means I really do not know , but its  to be  made ready for the presence of GOD HIMSELF    ...

To me the second coming of Christ is  found in Hebrews 9 ;28  27And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, 28so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

If we can believe Pauls sayings  we know there are those dead in Christ    undergoing the same baptism  HE DID , , not all come this way  ,this may be where we  all seem to differ in   how death is  done away with in the LIFE &CHRIST ..

   

   behold I come quickly  ,,  For some it is like a thief in the night and for those  who waits on the Lord it is the new day dawning in their hearts   

but as far as the final end we have those scriptures that explain  judgment  till  Christ be  all authority   not just  begining to reign   from the  point of the cross and bringing in the new covenant of Life by the perfect sacrifice   and grace gift  of God , though Jesus Christ HIMSELF 




Rev 22 11"Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy."

12"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.

13"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."   

     many it seems are under THIS  judgment now     Jesus saying  in John 16  ...10and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; 11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged. 12"I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now....     releasing those whom death has the hold on them ...

For me   , believing that God is love and sent Jesus  The holy One ,     I am persuaded that  death will not hold  mankind eternally ,    Jesus will make    them His before presenting the to the HOLY FATHER /CREATOR  OF ALL THINGS  FOR HIS GLORY .

JUDGMENT COME UPON sin and evil   1 Peter 4;17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?


It seems though suffering  the evil and deaths hold we are given Jesus  true word  and sure promise  though   Him in faith and obedience   of this

John 5 ...23so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

24"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


25"Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

[rosered]

  OF  all the effort   made   3 things seem the most important to  work on and stay  in &   aware of  with the Our Savior , and they are   .
1Cor.13;13


12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.



13   But now faith, hope, love, abide (accept or act in accordance with (a rule, decision, or recommendation) these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Without faith it is impossible to please God 

the Christ in you the hope of glory

  34"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.


35"By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."