what happens when you die?

[rosered]

 
I just wanted to add   that many of Paul's  writings expound on and go into great details about the experience he was having life and death
  when He said  ,  I die daily  he was decreasing and the Lord Jesus Christ   was increasing within his heart ,,  Life and death are ours 
we get both  simultaneously   at the same time      ,  death of self  as individual   and gathered in Christ as a Whole or corporate    working to   salvation  of all    realm

All the scriptures finally come together in ways   we never think possible , But with  God all things are possible   Matt 19     with Jesus explaining the rich man , just like the rich last day   church      they are being made poor that Christ is the gain     and riches of God  though faith in Him and the work of the Holy Spirit   , this is all around us here and now to those whom believe   ...

...25When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?"


26And looking at them Jesus said to them, "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."


27Then Peter said to Him, "Behold, we have left everything and followed You; what then will there be for us?"...


28 Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.


30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

For me the renewal of things was    at the cross that Jesus  was speaking of     
  now if we have to experience this   Cross  of Christ   individually       Him dying for our sins and acknowledging it      ,  than   consider the  two thieves of the cross   

    the one whom says I am a sinner  and deserve   to die for my sins    , but you are innocent    , remember when we die   [taking up our cross  and following Him ]  we will be with him in paradise     this day !!

  Its a   metaphor   to me    as being spiritual   in nature and those whom still look to the metaphysical      are still looking though the glass darkly ,,,,     being flesh and blood that does not inherit the kingdom   of God       but is    still  a work in progress , the kingdom will be built even in troublsome times   

  not by might but by MY SPIRIT says the Lord   

  this day is the new dawn and awaking   of Jesus Christ in our hearts making you children of the DAY     AND LIGHT OF THE WORLD  IN CHRIST anointing  of the HOLY SPIRIT    , CHRIST IN YOU THE HOPE OF GLORY     , GLORY TO GOD IN THE HIGHEST   

no longer I who lives but Christ in me     ...     the  LAST DAY IS CHRIST IN THE FULNESS    OF KNOWLEDGE OF GOD     AND HIS WISDOM     that is without end       

[rosered]

When we're immortalized, I think we will be changed into spiritual bodies that won't be flesh and blood like we have now. I also think it could be said that we came from spirit because God is spirit, and all came out of God. I also think it could be said that we will return into spirit because all will return literally into God.

Yes Tom the dead know nothing  , its the alive in Christ whom KNOW GOD    John 17


2 even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life.


3"This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.


4"I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do....

   the Cross to me  is the turning point the turning  around     that death is no longer  the hold on mankind    by the power and work of the LORD JESUSCHRIST !! 
WHO LIVES  IN US  and we are surrounded by the great  cloud of witnesses     those faithful and true   that are with Him the FAITFUL AND TRUE ONE   
 
:HeartThrob:    and the LAST DAY    a Day without end !!!!!!!!!!!!
Rev 21 The New Jerusalem
...22I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.


23And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it....


we see this spiritually     , with healed spiritual eyes of understanding  what the Spirit is saying         the fulness of God is   CHRIST COL 2

Alive in Christ
...8See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.


9For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;...

I    KNOW I AM EXPERIENCING GODS GLORY   IN THE EARTH as  it is in heaven  Matt 5   ,,,,    i believe   with all that is in me  HE LIVES !!!!!   :dsunny:
I believe  Jesus Christ    is here and lives  as the HOLY SPIRIT INCREASES    POWERFULLY AND WITHOUT  A DOUBT   , THE LIVING GOD IS REAL     !!

[rosered]

  By the same faith Abraham  has we also  consider our bodies of mortality  dead , its the sin  of this life    ,  we are eagerly awaiting the Lord Jesus Christ to come  again after the seed of Christ /faith   was deposited  in our   empty tomb  of a heart     ,
when I was alive to the world I did not waiting to the Lord to come   , but seeked those things that the world offered

   But now   that sin  is dealt with by the Lord Jesus Christ because greater is HE who that is in you  than in the world        this is the LIVING WORD  that breathes   within our walls of salvation   Isaiah 60     Future Glory for Zion  the fulfillment  of Isaiah 60  is described in Hebrews 12 & the revelation scriptures  of Jesus Christ    , you have come to ZION     


...17"Instead of bronze I will bring gold, And instead of iron I will bring silver,

And instead of wood, bronze, And instead of stones, iron

. And I will make peace your administrators And righteousness your overseers.


18"Violence will not be heard again in your land, Nor devastation or destruction within your borders;


But you will call your walls salvation, and your gates praise.


19"No longer will you have the sun for light by day, Nor for brightness will the moon give you light; But you will have the LORD for an everlasting light, And your God for your glory....


I believe with all my heart   , this is why know one knows the time our hour because its done individually  or clusters   at Gods time appointed  HIS CHOOSING  THOSE OUT OF THE WORLD   ,  those whom He seeks to WORSHIP HIM    IN LIGHT AND LIFE        SPIRIT AND TRUTH  ,    AS JESUS SAYS    JOHN 4

But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him.

IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH   IS THE END RESULT   of all that flesh and blood temporal   ending  as corruption  where evil dwells  in

     striving against sin in Hebrews 12 shows us the  process of the fire of Gods consuming    our flesh is ashes at His feet /teaching      and the  glory of being raised up in Spirit and truth is the glory of God   forever     

 

[joeteekay]

Very good posts. My offering:

When a person dies it is likened to sleep.  Death is Sleep. Not death is like sleep BUT death is sleep according go God.

Death has two different aspects:
1.   The ACT OF DYING.
2.   The STATE OF BEING DEAD.

All have already, or will eventually, experience "the act of dying or termination of life.  However those who die never experience the "state of being dead."

(Ecclesiastes 9:5)."For the living know that they will die but the dead know nothing..."

Man does not have an immortal soul.  The dead DO NOT HAVE consciousness.  The spirit of a person upon death returns to God who gave it.

Ecc 12:7  Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The spirit in man has no consciousness unless it is united with a body, a spiritual body or a physical body. 

(James 2:26)"For as the body without the spirit is dead . .

At death, the body dies and becomes useless to the spirit that inhabited it.

In other words the spirit in man can only be conscious if it is within, a part of,  a living physical body or a living spiritual body.
Not only is there no consciousness in death, but there is no consciousness OF death either.

"The living KNOW... the dead know NOTHING." The dead don't know that they are dead. When a person dies, that person does not know that they are dead are dead!   Not only will you never know that you are dead, but from your perspective you never even lost consciousness.

From our perspective we will never "know" what it is like to be dead. Oh we will probably die some day (assuming that Jesus Christ doesn't come first), but we will never know that we were dead; we will never know what it is to BE dead, or to BE unconscious.

But all would experience "dying." Most (albeit not all) people who die, experience dying, but they do NOT experience death itself.  It is impossible for someone to experience the death state, seeing that where there is no consciousness, there is no experience, and therefore there is no memory of it.  It is obvious by the abundant scriptural proof that all conscious thought and life-functions cease at death.  Even if there was no such thing as a resurrection from the dead, the dead would never know that they died and would never know that they are dead.

We may all go through the fear of dying or even the pain of dying, but there is no pain and no fear in death itself. No one who is presently dead is aware of it.

In Deut. 31:16, first part of the verse,.  God prepared Moses for death with the following:

(Deut. 31:16). "And the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, you shall rest (sleep - AKJ)  [Hebrew: shakab—to lie down, to rest, to sleep, to decease] with your fathers..."

And concerning the death of Lazarus, the brother of Martha and Mary.  When Lazarus was dead Jesus said:

(John 11:11 - 14)"Our friend Lazarus sleeps: but I go, that I may awake him up".


Jesus referred to death as sleep.  Death in the grave is a sleep with no consciousness'.  Jesus performed a miracle showing that He could awake someone from death and the grave.  He has the power to do that.  And He will bring life to the dead who are in Christ at His coming.  This is the resurrection to immortality of God's elect.  Resurrection into the Kingdom of God.

Sleeping in death is a way that God can set people aside for a little while.  Centuries and millennia will pass for those who died and sleep, yet they have no knowledge of death.    The billions of humans who have lived and died over the centuries are completely unaware of the passage of time.  The interim period between the moment of death, when their conscious thoughts ceased, and the instant when they awake to life again at a resurrection does not exist for them.  It will be as if they had gone to sleep and awakened without dreaming  -  the passage of time is meaningless to them.

Paul made the following statements in II Cor 5: 1-8:
From the CLV:

Chapter 5
1 For we are aware that, if our terrestrial tabernacle house should be demolished, we have a building of God, a house not made by hands, eonian, in the heavens.
2 For in this also we are groaning, longing to be dressed in our habitation which is out of heaven,
3 if so be that, being dressed also, we shall not be found naked.
4 For we also, who are in the tabernacle, are groaning, being burdened, on which we are not wanting to be stripped, but to be dressed, that the mortal may be swallowed up by life.
5 Now He Who produces us for this same longing is God, Who is also giving us the earnest of the spirit.
6 Being, then, courageous always, and aware that, being at home in the body, we are away from home from the Lord
7 (for by faith are we walking, not by perception),
8 yet we are encouraged, and are delighting rather to be away from home out of the body and to be at home with the Lord.

It is interesting how some preachers of today's Christianity misrepresent this 8th verse. They read it as saying " We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body IS to be present with the Lord", thus supporting the immortality of the soul doctrine.  Oh those misinformed preachers, if they only understood, the word is AND not IS, and tells us  there is a length of time from the time one dies and to the time of  resurrection.

Yes, Paul knew that once he died the next waking moment would be resurrected with a new body, a spiritual body.

(I Cor. 15:49).  This will happen in an instant (from this physical life to the next spiritual life without missing a heart beat), in the twinkling of an eye, nonetheless, it would have to wait until "the last trump' (I Cor. 15:51 - 52).  But to Paul from his perspective, it would only be but a moment in time.

Death is an enemy, but it will be abolished" (I Cor. 15:26 - The last enemy that will be destroyed is death) by the One who has already had victory over it. And although we will never experience being dead, we certainly experience the loss of our loved ones who have died, and our family and friends will experience loss when we die.

It very comforting to know that those who are dead do not experience the state of being dead.  And we also who are alive, will never experience being dead.  We may die before the return of Christ, but we will never experience being dead.  From our own perspective, all that we will ever know is life!

[rosered]

Very good posts. My offering:

When a person dies it is likened to sleep.  Death is Sleep. Not death is like sleep BUT death is sleep according go God.

Death has two different aspects:
1.   The ACT OF DYING.
2.   The STATE OF BEING DEAD.

All have already, or will eventually, experience "the act of dying or termination of life.  However those who die never experience the "state of being dead."

(Ecclesiastes 9:5)."For the living know that they will die but the dead know nothing..."

Man does not have an immortal soul.  The dead DO NOT HAVE consciousness.  The spirit of a person upon death returns to God who gave it.

Ecc 12:7  Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The spirit in man has no consciousness unless it is united with a body, a spiritual body or a physical body. 

(James 2:26)"For as the body without the spirit is dead . .

At death, the body dies and becomes useless to the spirit that inhabited it.

In other words the spirit in man can only be conscious if it is within, a part of,  a living physical body or a living spiritual body.
Not only is there no consciousness in death, but there is no consciousness OF death either.

"The living KNOW... the dead know NOTHING." The dead don't know that they are dead. When a person dies, that person does not know that they are dead are dead!   Not only will you never know that you are dead, but from your perspective you never even lost consciousness.

From our perspective we will never "know" what it is like to be dead. Oh we will probably die some day (assuming that Jesus Christ doesn't come first), but we will never know that we were dead; we will never know what it is to BE dead, or to BE unconscious.

But all would experience "dying." Most (albeit not all) people who die, experience dying, but they do NOT experience death itself.  It is impossible for someone to experience the death state, seeing that where there is no consciousness, there is no experience, and therefore there is no memory of it.  It is obvious by the abundant scriptural proof that all conscious thought and life-functions cease at death.  Even if there was no such thing as a resurrection from the dead, the dead would never know that they died and would never know that they are dead.

We may all go through the fear of dying or even the pain of dying, but there is no pain and no fear in death itself. No one who is presently dead is aware of it.

In Deut. 31:16, first part of the verse,.  God prepared Moses for death with the following:

(Deut. 31:16). "And the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, you shall rest (sleep - AKJ)  [Hebrew: shakab—to lie down, to rest, to sleep, to decease] with your fathers..."

And concerning the death of Lazarus, the brother of Martha and Mary.  When Lazarus was dead Jesus said:

(John 11:11 - 14)"Our friend Lazarus sleeps: but I go, that I may awake him up".


Jesus referred to death as sleep.  Death in the grave is a sleep with no consciousness'.  Jesus performed a miracle showing that He could awake someone from death and the grave.  He has the power to do that.  And He will bring life to the dead who are in Christ at His coming.  This is the resurrection to immortality of God's elect.  Resurrection into the Kingdom of God.

Sleeping in death is a way that God can set people aside for a little while.  Centuries and millennia will pass for those who died and sleep, yet they have no knowledge of death.    The billions of humans who have lived and died over the centuries are completely unaware of the passage of time.  The interim period between the moment of death, when their conscious thoughts ceased, and the instant when they awake to life again at a resurrection does not exist for them.  It will be as if they had gone to sleep and awakened without dreaming  -  the passage of time is meaningless to them.

Paul made the following statements in II Cor 5: 1-8:
From the CLV:

Chapter 5
1 For we are aware that, if our terrestrial tabernacle house should be demolished, we have a building of God, a house not made by hands, eonian, in the heavens.
2 For in this also we are groaning, longing to be dressed in our habitation which is out of heaven,
3 if so be that, being dressed also, we shall not be found naked.
4 For we also, who are in the tabernacle, are groaning, being burdened, on which we are not wanting to be stripped, but to be dressed, that the mortal may be swallowed up by life.
5 Now He Who produces us for this same longing is God, Who is also giving us the earnest of the spirit.
6 Being, then, courageous always, and aware that, being at home in the body, we are away from home from the Lord
7 (for by faith are we walking, not by perception),
8 yet we are encouraged, and are delighting rather to be away from home out of the body and to be at home with the Lord.

It is interesting how some preachers of today's Christianity misrepresent this 8th verse. They read it as saying " We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body IS to be present with the Lord", thus supporting the immortality of the soul doctrine.  Oh those misinformed preachers, if they only understood, the word is AND not IS, and tells us  there is a length of time from the time one dies and to the time of  resurrection.

Yes, Paul knew that once he died the next waking moment would be resurrected with a new body, a spiritual body.

(I Cor. 15:49).  This will happen in an instant (from this physical life to the next spiritual life without missing a heart beat), in the twinkling of an eye, nonetheless, it would have to wait until "the last trump' (I Cor. 15:51 - 52).  But to Paul from his perspective, it would only be but a moment in time.

Death is an enemy, but it will be abolished" (I Cor. 15:26 - The last enemy that will be destroyed is death) by the One who has already had victory over it. And although we will never experience being dead, we certainly experience the loss of our loved ones who have died, and our family and friends will experience loss when we die.

It very comforting to know that those who are dead do not experience the state of being dead.  And we also who are alive, will never experience being dead.  We may die before the return of Christ, but we will never experience being dead.  From our own perspective, all that we will ever know is life!

   Hi Joe ,
  the Cross is appointed to all   , we have to go  though this ''baptism  of the dead ''     
  if you note that the one whom says if you are the Christ   save yourself and  get me down off here

   Did you notice   this one is never ever mentioned again    ? the dead KNOW NOTHING   , THEY DO NOT KNOW GOD     
the other   was given Life and now knows God   
  the  way of the cross of Jesus Christ is that HE IS WITH YOU   and never leaves you again

Its is the   ''sleep in Jesus''   ,   the rest of Gods  people    ...    that rest is   Hebrews 4   the sword / being the WORD OF GOD  SHARP    SWORD OF TRUTH dividing     the   soul/life   of mankind who never knows God from the SPIRIT   OF TRUTH  , BEING THE HOLY SPIRIT     that those who  have tasted can never  ever blaspheme!! or speak against    in any sense of the WORD ....      THIS GLORY BELONGS TO GOD ONLY    BECAUSE SALVAION COME BY THE WAY AND TRUTH OF THE CROSS       OF JESUS CHRIST   

one is dead and the new one is born again to SERVE GOD    though Jesus Christ , The mortal body  is just the     vessel used to contain     what   has been hidden in ...    Christ is the LIGHT THAT COMES FORTH OUT OF THE CLAY VESSEL     , KNOWLEDGE OF GOD   
  THE HOLY SPIRIT AND FIRE IS   consuming the  elements  = stoicheion

any first thing, from which the others belonging to some series or composite whole take their rise, an element, first principal

the letters of the alphabet as the elements of speech, not however the written characters, but the spoken sounds

the elements from which all things have come, the material causes of the universe

the heavenly bodies, either as parts of the heavens or (as others think) because in them the elements of man, life and destiny were supposed to reside

the elements, rudiments, primary and fundamental principles of any art, science, or discipline

   the law  and those under it are  taken out of the way and are fulfilled in Christ    !!      JESUS CHRIST IS THE LOVE  & LIVING IN GOD     THE ONE TRUE  GOD  OF ALL   THINGS MADE FOR HIM AND THOUGH HIM      ROMANS 11 35Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN? 36For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.

COLOSSIANS  1 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, 4 since we heard of gyour faith in Christ Jesus and of gthe love that you have for all the saints, 5 because of hthe hope ilaid up for you in heaven. Of this you have heard before in jthe word of the truth, the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as indeed kin the whole world it is lbearing fruit and increasing—as it also does among you, since the day you mheard it and understood nthe grace of God in truth, 7 just as you learned it from oEpaphras our beloved pfellow servant.2 He is pa faithful minister of Christ on your3 behalf 8 and has made known to us your qlove in the Spirit.
9 And so, rfrom the day we heard, swe have not ceased to pray for you, asking that tyou may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all uspiritual wisdom and understanding, 10 so as vto walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, wfully pleasing to him, xbearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God. 11 yMay you be strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for zall endurance and patience awith joy, 12 bgiving thanks4 to the Father, who has qualified you5 to share in cthe inheritance of the saints in light. 13 He dhas delivered us from ethe domain of darkness and transferred us to fthe kingdom of ghis beloved Son, 14 hin whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
The Preeminence of Christ

15 iHe is the image of jthe invisible God, kthe firstborn of all creation. 16 For by6 him all things were created, lin heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether mthrones or ndominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created othrough him and for him. 17 And phe is before all things, and in him all things qhold together. 18 And rhe is the head of the body, the church. He is sthe beginning, tthe firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. 19 For uin him all the vfullness of God was pleased to dwell, 20 and wthrough him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, xmaking peace yby the blood of his cross.
21 zAnd you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, 22 he has now reconciled bin his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, 23 if indeed you continue in the faith,stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation 7 under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.


Can you see the cross   of Jesus Christ here    as the old and new man are made one in Christ ?    those under the law have died  and are no more  and the new man has  been given Life in Christ     ...........

[Tom]

I hear ya, bro, and, sis, I talked about this quote a ways back in this thread.

And Jesus said to him, "Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise." (Luke 23:43)

What I said was that there's actually no punctuation in the ancient scriptures, and the placement of the comma in a translation makes a big difference. I think Christ was saying that he was telling him today that he would be with him in paradise not that he would be with him in paradise today.

[rosered]

I hear ya, bro, and, sis, I talked about this quote a ways back in this thread.

And Jesus said to him, "Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise." (Luke 23:43)

What I said was that there's actually no punctuation in the ancient scriptures, and the placement of the comma in a translation makes a big difference. I think Christ was saying that he was telling him today that he would be with him in paradise not that he would be with him in paradise today.

  I hear you Tom ,
  but believe the  last  Day is Jesus Christ   and that   Day is  LIFE ,  no end
the new  day is dawned  and the night and shadow  has past , being children of the day



its all in how you perceive        ,realize  or  become aware or conscious of     :icon_flower:
   all is of   God

[lastpost]

   
  the  way of the cross of Jesus Christ is that HE IS WITH YOU   and never leaves you again

Yes, everything of Christ is simple (uncomplicated by man's mind) if Divine Love is allowed to guide:

John 11: 25,26

"Jesus said to her, "I am the Resurrection and the Life. He who is believing in Me, even if he should be dying, shall be living."
No long sleeping or cessation of consciousness but the Divine promise of always living.

"And everyone who is living and believing in Me, should by no means be dying for the eon."
"By no means" = in no way, or by no method, or by no theoretical doctrine, or in any way whatever...
"by no means be dying for the aeon."

When Christ is experienced, Life is experienced, and Life never stops.
How wonderful is the Heart and Mind of God.

[Tom]

I guess we're all going to find out what death is really about one of these days. It seems just like a lot of other stuff in scripture that has different interpretations according to perceived literal vs. figurative language. Right now I think we're dying but will be immortalized for eonian life which involves the next two eons. I know some disagree, but that's the way I see it.

http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html

[rosered]

I guess we're all going to find out what death is really about one of these days. It seems just like a lot of other stuff in scripture that has different interpretations according to perceived literal vs. figurative language. Right now I think we're dying but will be immortalized for eonian life which involves the next two eons. I know some disagree, but that's the way I see it.

http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html

THE DAY  of the Lord is at hand /in POWER   Testimony of the old  and the new Jesus cHRIST OWN WORDS TELLS US HOW ITS DONE   




A Judgment against Babylon
...5They are coming from a far country, From the farthest horizons, The LORD and His instruments of indignation, To destroy the whole land. 6Wail, for the day of the LORD is near! It will come as destruction from the Almighty. 7 Therefore all hands will fall limp, And every man's heart will melt....

James 5:1
Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you.

Isaiah 2:12
The LORD Almighty has a day in store for all the proud and lofty, for all that is exalted (and they will be humbled),

Isaiah 10:3
What will you do on the day of reckoning, when disaster comes from afar? To whom will you run for help? Where will you leave your riches?

Isaiah 10:25
Very soon my anger against you will end and my wrath will be directed to their destruction."

Isaiah 13:9
See, the day of the LORD is coming --a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger-- to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it.

Isaiah 14:23
"I will turn her into a place for owls and into swampland; I will sweep her with the broom of destruction," declares the LORD Almighty.

Isaiah 34:2
The LORD is angry with all nations; his wrath is on all their armies. He will totally destroy them, he will give them over to slaughter.

Isaiah 34:8
For the LORD has a day of vengeance, a year of retribution, to uphold Zion's cause.

Isaiah 47:11
Disaster will come upon you, and you will not know how to conjure it away. A calamity will fall upon you that you cannot ward off with a ransom; a catastrophe you cannot foresee will suddenly come upon you.

Isaiah 61:2
to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor and the day of vengeance of our God, to comfort all who mourn,

Isaiah 65:14
My servants will sing out of the joy of their hearts, but you will cry out from anguish of heart and wail in brokenness of spirit.

Jeremiah 51:8
Babylon will suddenly fall and be broken. Wail over her! Get balm for her pain; perhaps she can be healed.

Ezekiel 13:5
You have not gone up to the breaches in the wall to repair it for the people of Israel so that it will stand firm in the battle on the day of the LORD.

Ezekiel 30:2
"Son of man, prophesy and say: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: "'Wail and say, "Alas for that day!"

Ezekiel 30:3
For the day is near, the day of the LORD is near-- a day of clouds, a time of doom for the nations.

Daniel 5:9
So King Belshazzar became even more terrified and his face grew more pale. His nobles were baffled.

Daniel 5:26
"Here is what these words mean: Mene: God has numbered the days of your reign and brought it to an end.

Joel 1:15
Alas for that day! For the day of the LORD is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty.

Amos 5:18
Woe to you who long for the day of the LORD! Why do you long for the day of the LORD? That day will be darkness, not light.

Zechariah 14:1
A day of the LORD is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.
THE MAN OF SIN is exposed   in Adam all shall die and in Christ all shall be made alive     
the law of sin is death and the Life in Christ, is  made  a new creature  alive to the God of the Living
words do it no justice      , It is a knowing     and understanding   given by the Lord Himself

Its like trying to explain colors to a blind man   in my opinion 

  truly the dead   to the Living God  know nothing
  the dead in Christ shall rise first    , and the first shall be last and the last shall be first

  1thess 4
15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

How did Paul know He was Alive  at the time he wrote this ?   
Was it because He understood   , it was no longer him but Christ  that was alive in and though Him   that was alive to God of the living

   we know he is mortally dead  , yet he is claiming he is alive   and remains
and just how does one perceive the coming of the Lord   ? 

  How can  Hebrews 9 be reconciled as , He comes a second time without sin   ?

  ...27And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,[judgment begins in the house of God ]   you are the temple of the Living God   etc ... 


28so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many,  the Cross  is our appointment,    let the dead bury their dead  YOU  FOLLOW ME ,  take up your cross  and follow me  ...

will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

I know many believe its the resting in sleep of Jesus waiting to be made alive  in Christ before the Living God     , His example were the little girl 

and   the proofs are   this  ,  Jesus said I AM THE RESURRECTION  AND LIFE   AND  LIVE  FOREVER MORE 

  not dead but sleep in Jesus ...3So the sisters sent word to Him, saying, "Lord, behold, he whom You love is sick."

4But when Jesus heard this, He said, "This sickness is not to end in death, but for the glory of God, so that the Son of God may be glorified by it." 5Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus....

 

the  sick  many of you sleep 1Corinth   11  ...29For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly

30For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.

[eaglesway]

   
  the  way of the cross of Jesus Christ is that HE IS WITH YOU   and never leaves you again

Yes, everything of Christ is simple (uncomplicated by man's mind) if Divine Love is allowed to guide:

John 11: 25,26

"Jesus said to her, "I am the Resurrection and the Life. He who is believing in Me, even if he should be dying, shall be living."
No long sleeping or cessation of consciousness but the Divine promise of always living.

"And everyone who is living and believing in Me, should by no means be dying for the eon."
"By no means" = in no way, or by no method, or by no theoretical doctrine, or in any way whatever...
"by no means be dying for the aeon."

When Christ is experienced, Life is experienced, and Life never stops.
How wonderful is the Heart and Mind of God.

:thumbsup:

[sheila]

men of Galilee..why do you stand here looking into the sky?[two men dressed in white stood beside them]   This Same Jesus who

has been taken from you..WILL COME BACK IN THE SAME WAY YOU HAVE SEEN HIM GO INTO HEAVEN.

   EL-I_JAH..  EL=LORD I GOD=JAH.  Will come in the SPIRIT AND POWER OF .

[CHB]

There is scripture that supports both views here. I use to think I knew the answer to dying and what happens after death but I am not so sure anymore. I do know this, when Jesus was resurrected he took his body with him because the only thing left was the clothes that covered him. Anybody have any thoughts about that?

The Baptist belief is, the good go to heaven when they die and when Jesus returns he will bring our spirits with him which will be reunited with our bodies, then we will be resurrected. That don't make a lot of sense to me. If the flesh profits nothing and we are already in heaven why put our spirits back into these bodies. Maybe they are suppose to be different kinds of bodies, I don't know? I pray we all will learn the truth of the matter.

Wish I knew all the answers to this subject.

CHB

[rosered]

There is scripture that supports both views here. I use to think I knew the answer to dying and what happens after death but I am not so sure anymore. I do know this, when Jesus was resurrected he took his body with him because the only thing left was the clothes that covered him. Anybody have any thoughts about that?

The Baptist belief is, the good go to heaven when they die and when Jesus returns he will bring our spirits with him which will be reunited with our bodies, then we will be resurrected. That don't make a lot of sense to me. If the flesh profits nothing and we are already in heaven why put our spirits back into these bodies. Maybe they are suppose to be different kinds of bodies, I don't know? I pray we all will learn the truth of the matter.

Wish I knew all the answers to this subject.

CHB

:icon_flower:

  Yes  CHB ,    I agree with you  :iagree:     we speak what we know JOHN 310Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11"Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.
the testimony of Jesus Christ is the SPIRIT OF PROPHECY ... :dsunny:

12"If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?...


What of those grave clothes  left behind and    the kerchief all by itself        ?

and  How do we become further   clothed  in Christ     ?

1Corinth 15      what does it mean to die ?

  What dies mortality ? earthly things ?
  or   is it   also the flesh bodies full of corruption   

By faith  Abraham considered his own body as good as dead already      Romans 4
...18In hope against hope he believed, so that he might become a father of many nations according to that which had been spoken


, "SO SHALL YOUR DESCENDANTS BE."


19Without becoming weak in faith he contemplated his own body, now as good as dead since he was about a hundred years old, and the deadness of Sarah's womb;


20yet, with respect to the promise of God, he did not waver in unbelief but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God,...

  for me those born of faith are Abraham's children and   are the seed of promise  given it IS CHRIST  the immortal seed  promised of God that  is true and the children of  the DAY    OR THE LIGHT OF CHRIST SHINING    in the world because the FATHER AND SON ARE THEIR LIGHT     

TO GLORIFY GOD IN THE EARTH as it is in heaven     
children of the day    are the promises given  to By God ...  the darkness has past and the drunkenness of rioting is over  , the peacemakers are the children of God   who can see HIM    WITH THE PURE HEART  THAT GOD IS IN THERE  DOING THE WORKS AS PROMISED BY THE INCREASE OF GOD S SPIRIT 7 FOLD [ALL THE DAYS AS ONE NEW DAY ] 
1Thess 5 The Day of the Lord
...4But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; 5for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; 6so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.

  THE two thieves on the cross    , the man of sin is on the left and left   with nothing ,there is no more mention of him  and the other man  the new man in Christ is  with the LORD JESUS CHRIST

[CHB]

Hi Rose,

I have a question, why wasn't the flesh body of Jesus left behind? You can go to any grave yard in the world and dig up anyone and you will find a body. Why didn't Jesus leave his body behind?

CHB

[sheila]

   Zeal for Thy house has consumed me. You must eat my flesh and drink my blood.  The passover Lamb was to be consumed.......

   ....and I saw what looked like a Lamb that had been slaughtered..standing in the midst of the throne,encircled by the four living creatures

and the  elders[Rev 5;6]

   and if we did know Him after the flesh..we certainly know Him so no longer.....

   Thou hast prepared a body for me.  the life in that kernal of wheat that fell to the earth and died is in His many membered body.

   IT IS NOT GOOD FOR THE MAN TO BE ALONE.   IN the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God

    He was with God in the beginning...Through Him all things were made;without Him nothing was made. In Him was life..and that

   life was the light of men. The Light shines in the darkness..but the darkness has not understood it.

[rosered]

Hi Rose,

I have a question, why wasn't the flesh body of Jesus left behind? You can go to any grave yard in the world and dig up anyone and you will find a body. Why didn't Jesus leave his body behind?

CHB

  Hi CHB , great question   you have , I also have wondered and still seeking the truth  in  His Word , when you see the transfiguration   of Christ in His glorified state were not the others no longer seen but Christ alone ?

   But Gods promise   is a sure thing and when He said I will not allow my HOLY ONE to see corruption    , He  was  serious   

  We have the accounts of  where the Lord was seen  by his   gathered   believers   so we know the tomb was empty  and HE HAS RISEN just as it was prophesied  long ago

  when you read the valley of dry bones  you have the account of   Israel    and when a body was given   , for me I see this as   the promise of God in Matthew 27

many in their graves  also received the promise   though they died in faith believing    they would rise again  with Christ  being that very SIGN standard and proof 


...51And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split.


52The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;

53and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.

Here is the thing that  helped me the most to believe    that JESUS CHRIST  IS THE SIGN OF BELIEVERS ITS A NAME AND TITLE      but we know Jesus is everything   

  the was and is and will be   the ALPHA  and OMEGA beginning and end       
   When they  taught the resurrection had already      passed , it was a huge mistake   not knowing the power of God or His WORD       because we know  that the Lord Jesus Christ is ALWAYS   ,
ALWAYS IS  was and will be    the resurrection and Life 
  and they stumble now thinking it is far off     , some other time or eon and age    , just as than thinking it was over and done with ...

   When JESUS SAID THE TIME IS NOW   HE  WAS DECLARING A TRUTH  TO ALL WHOM BELIEVE IN HIM

HIS TESTIMONY   IS  EAT MY BODY AND DRINK MY BLOOD THAT YOU MAY HAVE LIFE IN YOU

John 6 52  Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, "How can this man give us His flesh to eat?"

53So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.

54"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.


  So the Lamb of God is the sacrifice   for the sin of all mankind   and the Last Day is the Day of the Lord   something many  have gone though or have not gone though  yet ..

  In my most humble opinion   we focus on being flesh and blood to much  and are to not know anyone after the flesh any longer not even Jesus Christ Himself , He was conceived of Holy Spirit and that is what remains..........

But  in my  understanding   Jesus   Christ was  given a body  prepared for Him by the Father  and come in the flesh    , and now   does come in our own flesh  by the power of God and His Spirit of truth   as a sign and witness  to the glory of God    , no one can ever say   they done anything to   have this  gift , its all the work of God   

 

[eaglesway]

Jesus was raised from the dead. He died, and then He was raised. He appeared in His physical body, He ate fish with His disciples. He was not raised as a spirit only. He was raised as a man who had died, and now lived, through resurrection. We are all awaiting our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

Death only came because of sin. Jesus conquered sin for all, now all will be resurrected. The point is not the body. The body is just a tent- but it is the tent God has given. We don't know what the resurrected body will be capable of, but whatever it is capable of, it will be the spirit in the body that is the source of the glory, whatever glory that may be.

Jesus said, "In the resurrection they will be like the angels."

The resurrection of the body is an important part of the gospel of Jesus Christ, and His triumph over sin on our behalf.

Why did God create the physical universe? As a habitation. A dwelling place for beings, the heavens and the earth and under the earth. We await a new heavens and a new earth in which dwells righteousness.

But beyond the "whys" there is the simply "is". The What is dom of God, His wisdom and His whysdom :o)

Luke 24:39 See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."40 And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41 While they still could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, "Have you anything here to eat?" 42 They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; 43 and He took it and ate it before them.

[Tom]

I think people are either dead or alive. Some say you can be alive when dead, but I don't believe that. I also think the dead and the living will someday be immortalized like Christ was. I think Christ appeared to his disciples after his resurrection in his spiritual body that was capable of overcoming the force of gravity as scripture says ours will when we're snatched away to meet him in the air. I think Christ was resurrected in his body because the body is how we appear in this material world, but we will be changed when we're immortalized in our spiritual bodies just as he was. Before that we may die, and, if so, our bodies will return to the soil. But God has the power to give life to the dead, and so I think those who die before they're immortalized will be raised in their bodies just as Christ was but will be changed just as he was. Despite what some here say, I don't believe that has happened yet, but I believe it will.

[rosered]

 
Acts 13 34"As for the fact that He raised Him up from the dead, no longer to return to decay,

He has spoken in this way: 'I WILL GIVE YOU THE HOLY and SURE blessings OF DAVID.'

35"Therefore He also says in another Psalm, 'YOU WILL NOT ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY.' 36"For David, after he had served the purpose of God in his own generation, fell asleep, and was laid among his fathers and underwent decay


;36 [L For; Now] David ·did God's will [served God's purpose] during his ·lifetime [L generation]. Then he ·died [L slept; C a euphemism for death] and was ·buried [L placed] beside his ·ancestors [L fathers], and his body ·experienced [L saw] ·decay [corruption] in the grave.



37 But the One God raised from the dead did not ·experience [L see] ·decay [corruption]. 38 [L Therefore] ·Brothers [L Men, brothers], ·understand what we are telling you [know this]: ·You can have forgiveness of your sins [L Forgiveness of sins is announced to you] through ·Jesus [L this man]. 39 The law of Moses could not ·free you from your sins [justify you; make you righteous]. But through Jesus everyone who believes is ·free from all sins [justified; made/declared righteous]. 40 [L So; Therefore] ·Be careful [Watch out]! Don't let what the prophets said happen to you:

41 '·Listen [L Look; T Behold], you ·people who doubt [scoffers; mockers]!
    ·You can wonder [Be amazed], and then ·die [L perish; vanish].
I ·will do something [L am working a work] in your ·lifetime [L days]
    that you won't believe even when you are told about it [Hab. 1:5]!'"

[rosered]

no man recognized JESUS  with natural eyes  ...


Luke 24 25 Then Jesus said to them, "·You are foolish [L O foolish ones] and slow [L in heart] to believe everything the prophets said.


26 ·They said [L Was it not necessary...?] that the ·Christ [Messiah] must suffer these things before he enters his glory." 27 Then starting with what Moses and all the prophets [C a way of referring to the whole Old Testament] had said about him, Jesus began to explain everything that had been written about himself in [L all] the Scriptures.



28 They came near the town ·of Emmaus [L to which they were going], and Jesus acted as if he were going farther. 29 But they ·begged [urged] him, "Stay with us, because it is late; it is almost night." So he went in to stay with them.

30 When Jesus ·was at the table [L reclined; C the posture of a formal meal] with them, he took some bread, ·gave thanks [blessed it], ·divided [broke] it, and gave it to them [C Jesus, the guest, functions like the host in a Eucharist-like meal]. 31 And then, ·they were allowed to recognize Jesus [L their eyes were opened]. But when they saw who he was, he disappeared. 32 They said to each other, "·It felt like a fire burning in [L Didn't our hearts burn within...?] us when Jesus talked to us on the road and ·explained [opened] the Scriptures to us."

33 So ·the two followers [L they] got up ·at once [L the same hour] and went back to Jerusalem. There they found ·the eleven apostles [L the Eleven] and others gathered. 34 They were saying, "The Lord really has risen from the dead! He showed himself to Simon."

35 Then ·the two followers [L they] told what had happened on the road and how they recognized Jesus when he ·divided [broke] the bread.

[rosered]

I think people are either dead or alive. Some say you can be alive when dead, but I don't believe that. I also think the dead and the living will someday be immortalized like Christ was. I think Christ appeared to his disciples after his resurrection in his spiritual body that was capable of overcoming the force of gravity as scripture says ours will when we're snatched away to meet him in the air. I think Christ was resurrected in his body because the body is how we appear in this material world, but we will be changed when we're immortalized in our spiritual bodies just as he was. Before that we may die, and, if so, our bodies will return to the soil. But God has the power to give life to the dead, and so I think those who die before they're immortalized will be raised in their bodies just as Christ was but will be changed just as he was. Despite what some here say, I don't believe that has happened yet, but I believe it will.

I believe it has happened already to some of our loved ones TOM !!   I really do   , I just do and you can think I am crazy for thinking that way
  but they have risen in Christ .. and that just may be me for now and some other who believe  in the same  manner

    Some will not taste   death till they see the Lord coming in power
  and some    whom believe shall never  see death  just as the scriptures states

John 11 ...25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, 26and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" 27She said to Him, "Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world."...

   some standing here taste death   Luke 9 Take Up Your Cross


...26"For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His glory, and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels. 27"But I say to you truthfully, there are some of those standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God."

  now  Jesus Christ has tasted death for every man Heb 2 8YOU HAVE PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET." For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him.

But now we do not yet see all things subjected to him.

9But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone. 10For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings....

[Tom]

I think the preferred translation of John 11:26 referred to deceives by saying "never" because a more accurate translation makes it obvious that's not what's actually said. When an eon, a period of time, is distorted into endless time, it changes the whole story. That's why I don't read the King James Version anymore.

"And everyone who is living and believing in Me, should by no means be dying for the eon." (John 11:26 CLNT)

I think, when Christ uses the phrase "for the eon" as he does in this verse and elsewhere, he's talking about the next eon, the Millennium, when he returns, and Israel will be regenerated spiritually.

I used to be a die hard King James fan until I became aware of the translation problems, and, after I switched to Young's Literal Translation, things began to become clearer and make sense. Then I found out the Concordant Version is even more accurate than Young's Literal Translation. Some folks cling to their King James thinking it's the best because it's the most popular or because they like the poetic language, but comparison with other versions and an ultra-literal interlinear translation make it obvious that the King James is not an accurate translation. Just a few mistranslated words in the King James Version are all that's necessary to make orthodox theology seem to be true, but I don't believe the King James Version or orthodox theology anymore.

"But the serpent said to the woman: Not to die shall you be dying." (Genesis 3:4)

"Yet from profane prattlings stand aloof, for they will be progressing to more irreverence, and their word will spread as gangrene, of whom are Hymeneus and Philetus, who swerve as to truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred, and are subverting the faith of some." (2 Timothy 2:16-18)   

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[eaglesway]

I think people are either dead or alive. Some say you can be alive when dead, but I don't believe that. I also think the dead and the living will someday be immortalized like Christ was. I think Christ appeared to his disciples after his resurrection in his spiritual body that was capable of overcoming the force of gravity as scripture says ours will when we're snatched away to meet him in the air. I think Christ was resurrected in his body because the body is how we appear in this material world, but we will be changed when we're immortalized in our spiritual bodies just as he was. Before that we may die, and, if so, our bodies will return to the soil. But God has the power to give life to the dead, and so I think those who die before they're immortalized will be raised in their bodies just as Christ was but will be changed just as he was. Despite what some here say, I don't believe that has happened yet, but I believe it will.

I agree that people are alive or dead. I just think that Jesus meant what He said when He said the that believes in me has passed from death unto life. But I think there is definitely room for interpretation as to how that works out in time, which is the night, versus the Day, which is the full awakening, and I have respect for your view as well, since I think it is seen through a glass darkly.

I think time is surrounded by eternity, which is why Christ could step into history as a theophany before His incarnation(again, my opinion). Sometimes I think all the awakening of the dead occurs at two moments, the first resurrection and the second resurrection, and that no time passes between the death of a believer and their awakening, or, resurrection, because they have, in Christ, the Alph and Omega, stepped beyond the influence of time. But from the time side, it is seen as "sleep", in my view, while some brothers and sisters see it as dead, and ceasing to exist.

Verses like those in Hebrews 12, however, make me lean towards agreement with Roses view- but not in a way that I would ever care to debate.

It is one of several paradoxes over which solid believers, theologians and scholars disagree.

[lastpost]

"All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me"

Jesus Christ has all power everywhere - ALL power. Jesus was not here to display His Power, not in man's way of thinking.

His followers had seen Him beaten and put to a real human physical death. It would be hard for them to believe He lived after death. How should He prove to them He was alive? By appearing as a Being as bright as a thousand suns? No, He would be the Person they knew.

When making appearances, His followers are afraid...

"Then Jesus said to them, 'Do not be afraid. Go tell my brothers to go to Galilee, and there they will see me.' "

"they were startled and terrified and thought that they were seeing a ghost. Then he said to them, "Why are you troubled?"

He was always loving to His beloved followers - Love always came first because Love is His Nature. He comforted them first. They had to believe He was alive after death for the Plan to go forward.

"But these are written that you may (come to) believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that through this belief you may have life in his name."

Some things are recorded that humans simply cannot do.

"Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them"

"their eyes were opened and they recognized him, but he vanished from their sight"

He was willing to manifest in different forms.

"Yet after these things He was manifested in a different form to two of them walking"

This all makes perfect sense, how else would the records be written? This is about planet Earth with human beings on it in the flesh. The Christ came as a human for humans.

Peace and Joy!