Deu 4:24 for Jehovah thy God is a fire consuming--a zealous God.

[rosered]

If it's a "horrible experience" then nothing I have said is contradictory to that. So, your comparison to my belief with ETers is pretty hollow to me. They believe it will be "horrible" too only in a different way.

I could be off  here(this is my belief from my interpretation of the scriptures), but I think I have suggested that the wrath of God is real and aionian kolassis to be very difficult, very intense, to be seriously avoided. However I personally feel "horrible" may be a word that is off a bit, because i don't think it is about horrors. I think it is about being forced to face oneself. I 'theorize" that dying in ones rebellion sets that rebellion in the soul in a way that is like an alloy once the metal has cooled. The process of heating the metal up so that the alloys rise to the surface and separate from what is being purified or recovered - is an EXTREMELY difficult experience(in my view). This is how i think the fire of God, such as the fire in the eyes of Christ(the eye is the lamp of the soul) works in all purification, albeit, an experience that may be less difficult to bear in ones life in the body, than after the resurrection. Whether in the crucible of life, or in the trials of a believer, or in the next world, be it now or then in the  LOF or Gehenna(whatever they represents to the various viewpoints represented here)- I believe the nature/principle  of the working of the Spirit is the same.

"For all things are open to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do"

"Every hidden thing will be brought to light"

"I am he that tries the reins and the hearts".
:2c:

I so agree with you John   and Seth as well  !!!   , 



     I do believe     your right   ,  its about the shame    and   fear involved  as well as complete loss    , that is darkness  of ignorance [how great is the darkness  if the Light / knowledge  is evil  or fruitless ]    made for a fire of Gods consuming    ,
  I have just discovered  something else to be considered as well       , the  7 lamps of Fire are   the    7 churches are the Seven Spirits of God and the FIRE in Christ eyes  and flames   , this is the  presence of the Lamb of God  the two anointed ones    OLIVE TRESS with 7 lamps  who stand with the Lord of the whole earth    Zech 4 and   revealed in Rev 4  eyes of Fire   are the  lampstands  Light  of the world    with Rev 11 4 These are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks, standing before the Lord of the earth.     This is running the race , the   7 Spirits of God    being lit   is coming out of the two olive trees   anointed  oil HOLY SPIRIT WITNESS    the law and prophets standing with the LORD OF HOSTS   still in power      that tree    of Jesus teaching that all are hung on  these two    commandments Love God and your neighbor as yourself         and  ALL    had their blood shed   as a sacrifice  poured out on the earth as a witness against its violence   to the shedding of innocent blood       for they are all In Christ  annointing First of all, the word "Christ" comes from christos, a Greek word meaning "anointed." It is the equivalent of the word mashiach, or Messiah, in Hebrew. So, to be the Christ, or Messiah, is to be "the anointed one of God." ,,,

  the transfiguration  , its so important https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+17

Oh  can you imagine     the emptiness    one would   experience from the core of their being     of a complete  wasted chance   to Know God    though Christ and never     experienced   a real life of Love and Joy and the Holy Spirit witness  ?

This fire   in the presence of the wrath of the Lamb Rev 14 9Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11"And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.   

Jesus words are not void , those whom    hope to save their lives loose it and those whom  loose their lives for His sake  find it , Have His life  in Them , the fruit  of  Holiness      knowing the goodness of God     
  we should be shouting from the roof tops     to those whom can hear     , the multitude of many waters   , Jesus Voice  ,  faith comes by hearing       , that all  should be healed
 


  I know this is off topic   sort of and yet   , but     after reading Luke   17  again    Jesus  healing the   ten lepers

I have to say the  Law of Moses  is still in force and not lost its power to convict of sin    exposing    sin    still    and those lepers     still having the spot / sin on them  leprosy   Leviticus 13      concerns the spot   and wrinkle      on the Body     and hairs made white    [ Just as Jesus   said the  heads were white  for harvest  needing workers   and laborers     
   But those were    healed    when they went to the priest      to be shown , but one come back to PRAISE GOD      and Jesus asked was there not  10    and only this one come back  a  Samaritan / foreigner   

  Well Jesus told him his faith made him   whole , clean and    complete       ,   He was the only one  given the   inward    healing as well as the outward  healing !  making him entire  , pure inside and out 


I know all this is choppy , but its      much more clear to me and hope this can help others whom  God  will touch and let the truth come shining though
  the HolY SPIRIT AND FIRE has dual purpose   and workings       always to me

[sheila]

in Isaaih ch 9 and 10..Our Father speaks of the fire and wrath..first the fire of wrath against His disobedient rebellious

  people..with all the covenant curses[enemy overun be victorious over them] wickedness consuming as if briars,thorns....

   then...then after the people are sufficiently humbled,chastened aand trampled of the wicked ways  they have walked in....

  ch 10;12......when the Lord has finished all His work against Mt Zion/Jerusalem.......He punishes..the instrument thatwas used

  'the rod' to afflict and chastise...the Assyrian in this case...that wickedness not exult,boast in His presence -or axe raise itself

above Hethat wields it.  THE LIGHT OF ISRAEL WILL BECOME A FIRE..THE HOLY ONE A FLAME;IN A SINGLE DAY IT WILL CONSUME

HIS THORNS AND BRIARS![see 7 eyes on one stone remove iniquity inone day] 

    Jesus with eyes of fire and seven letters to the angels of thechurches.......

   thus..He uses sin in our flesh..to chastise with all it's evil fruitage...and when overcome of it and it is ruling over us...we do

  repent in dust and ashes.....then when pride/rebellion against Him is dealt with in Jerusalem.[repentance in dust and ashes]....He

destroys the very wickedness[sin] that raised up against us...........and lifts us up out of the ash heap to sit in heavenly places..

  to a position of ruling over sin..instead of sin/wickedness ruling over us.to ourharm and destruction

[Seth]

That's how I see it. As it says in Jeremiah "Your own wickedness shall correct you"  But the leaves are there on the tree for the healing of the nation's. I think it's interesting how God compares Egypt to an iron smelting fire. Smelting is the process of removing the precious metal from the surrounding ore.

There's a psalm where David refers to his sin as "the heat of summer" weighing him down, having no rest day or night. Within the same psalm is a clear desire for God's salvation.

[sheila]

 :thumbsup: that very scripture was in my mind,too. good/evil mix doesn't 'cut it' in God's eyes..He will seperate us from sin 100%

[sheila]

 the horrors of this world...the rampant evil,murders suffering death....is enough to see the fruitage of sin in all its 'gory'..

  the sheer misery of the creation..groans within itself.......yet,we see glimpses of the beauty of what was once a paradise.......

   parks,sunsets,tender love ..selfless acts of kindness shown to fellow man..in the midst of the greed corruption and evil that prevails

  we see  acts of tender mercy salted here and there..remnants of the glory of God in the midst of the corruption that is consuming.

[rosered]

 
   :2thumbs:    made me think of Malachi  3      in the sense of this eat my body and drink my blood that  you have life in you   Jesus Christ    could this be a metaphor   for the blood of grapes      new wine   as one  of many other comparisions , the bread of Life wheat      , the new covenant     of the   Melchizedek  Gen 14

17Then after his return from the defeat of Chedorlaomer and the kings who were with him, the king of Sodom went out to meet him at the valley of Shaveh (that is, the King's Valley). 18And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; now he was a priest of God Most High. 19He blessed him and said, "Blessed be Abram of God Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth;

   grapes blood of the innocent and the wheat for harvest       the bread and wine       
  the continual growth  and increase of God      is to  produce   new offspring  that bear fruits in due season and wheat harvests    of the bread and wine  !    seeing this  in Revelations   like crazy now
Christ being the root , being rooted and grounded in Christ and in Love    which are what  both  mean and the same  in the LOVE OF CHRIST
the root is still   doing the works  and never stopped  1Corthin 15   and the winepress   blood to drink     


...9"You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing Me, the whole nation of you!


10"Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this," says the LORD of hosts, "if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows.


11"Then I will rebuke the devourer for you, so that it will not destroy the fruits of the ground; nor will your vine in the field cast its grapes," says the LORD of hosts.

[micah7:9]

I think I have abided by this forum's rules about how to present ideas and I have respected those who have disagreed. Personally, I see no reason for God to have changed his methods in the Old Testament upon His people to the New Testament upon his people. This is why God's consuming fire is presented both as a warning from Moses and also a warning from the author of Hebrews concerning the spiritual Holy Land and the natural results of failing to enter his rest. The warning still stands. Even you admitted that whatever was going on in the lake of fire was most likely a horrible experience. Those were your words not mine.

"Even you admitted that whatever was going on in the lake of fire was most likely a horrible experience."

I most certainly did, that is exactly why the overcomer-elect- chosen would have no fear when he is represented and judged..... for there is no fear within that judgment of fire, the second death.

I may need to be corrected, but I went through this post about "fire" 3 times and did not find, "Even you admitted that whatever was going on in the lake of fire was most likely a horrible experience." So I must retract "I most certainly did....." what I found was

My last post Sept. 12 #192 Can a believer go to the lake of fire. Is my closest use of "horror"
"It just seems to me (imo) that your understanding has a touch of what is called here ET's, a vendetta of hate with joy with the outcome of the sinner. ET's desire a continuous burning fire of total horror and they are happy or it seems happy about it.. It is my understanding that God is Love (1 Jo. 4:16) and should that be true even though there will be judgment in the lake of fire it will be coming from a God who is love.
Heb 10:30  for we have known Him who is saying, `Vengeance is Mine, I will recompense, saith the Lord;' and again, `The Lord shall judge His people;' --
Heb 10:31  fearful is the falling into the hands of a living God.
That alone is the message to the sinner."

[sheila]

 the whole 'tithe' is all men..bought with the blood/body of Christ..to be His..even the salvation of all men............

  and THIS IS ALL THE FRUIT>>>WHEN I TAKE AWAY ALL THEIR SIN...........ALL IN ALL...otherwise God is robbed of what

  is rightfully His...they were His to begin with..sold simply for nothing[because of sin] and are redeemed without money.....

   too bad you prince of this world..He has come as a thief in the night......to you

[rosered]

the horrors of this world...the rampant evil,murders suffering death....is enough to see the fruitage of sin in all its 'gory'..

  the sheer misery of the creation..groans within itself.......yet,we see glimpses of the beauty of what was once a paradise.......

   parks,sunsets,tender love ..selfless acts of kindness shown to fellow man..in the midst of the greed corruption and evil that prevails

  we see  acts of tender mercy salted here and there..remnants of the glory of God in the midst of the corruption that is consuming.

  The Lord rewards those whom  kill the innocent     with bloodshed , the Queen of heaven    Babylon is given the   BLOOD of the innocents to drink double
portion    ,   no rest day or night

  Rev 14
   the mark on cain is the mark of sin    shedding innocent blood   ,  his mark is a mark of the beast

  seeing this as   Abel  name means   In Hebrew the meaning of the name Abel is: Breath; son; breathing spirit. In the Old Testament, Abel was the son of Adam and Eve who was killed by his brother Cain in a fit of jealousy.

  and Cain means    spear those whom pierced HIM 6and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father-- to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen. 8"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
   SPEAR  in  JESUS SIDE

John 19
...33but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. 34But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. 35And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you also may believe.

This is all    showing us that   from the foundation of the world    we have seen the  sacrifice    of innocent  blood     go into the ground       and cry out
   but Vengeance was always  Gods    , Jesus come in the fullness of times to        open the  seals  of Gods     wrath   vengeance is mine says the I SHALL REPAY

as      the Lord come not to destroy mens lives but save them   from their own destructive ways

Cain and Abel 
being the  mark of Christ    in abel and the mark of the beast in Cain      WOE the  way of Cain   1Jo 3:12   Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, seed  and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
  tree of knowledge of good and evil     , representing    one good and one evil   of the seeds   of that tree


8Yet in the same way these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties. 9But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"


10But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed.

11Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have rushed headlong into the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.

12These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; 13wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever.

      14It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones,   

15to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him." 16These are grumblers, finding fault, following after their own lusts; they speak arrogantly, flattering people for the sake of gaining an advantage.

    Dont we see yet its the   judgement of Holy Spirit and fire   

    the dual  purpose to   set the world on fire  !     Holy Spirit oil and the fire of Gods consuming

   Both   destroying the old and making all things new , both are   good things and excellent things

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:  He seperates tares for burning..He seperates chaff from wheat for burning...that He may gather all His wheat

into the storehouse!  Surely it is a 'good' work..the Father does through Him..that there be the bread of His presence in

  His house.  a house of prayer for all men...

[sheila]

Micah..this is in reply to your post #106....  I think there is a real danger for the saints to be corrupted through flatteries........

   that is the very thing I have mentioned when I spoke of 'but we are the elect"..and all you lowlifes are going to burn in hell forever

  ..or even in UR..burn in LOF ...........Israel was corrupted through flatteries..as being  a people for special possession..by God

   spiritual pride arrogance is a corruption through flattery[as if anyone had a reason to boast..since all have been concluded in sin]

   Satan will sift..attempt to draw out..any propensity of pride,arrogance or conceit in us......

   

[Seth]

When I look at the example of Shadrach, Mechach and Abednego, I notice something that I find interesting:

Daniel 3
19 Then Nebuchadnezzar was furious with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, and his attitude toward them changed. He (Nebuchadnezzar) ordered the furnace heated seven times hotter than usual 20 and commanded some of the strongest soldiers in his army to tie up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego and throw them into the blazing furnace. 21 So these men, wearing their robes, trousers, turbans and other clothes, were bound and thrown into the blazing furnace. 22 The king's command was so urgent and the furnace so hot that the flames of the fire killed the soldiers who took up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, 23 and these three men, firmly tied, fell into the blazing furnace.

What I notice about that, is that the fire was Babylon's fire. Nebuchadnezzar was the one who stoked the fire and made it hot. It's actually a fire intended for wickedness. But notice that even though the Nebuchadnezzar's fire was intended to harm the three Israelites, IT DID harm the soldiers. It backfired and the soldiers were caught up and destroyed by their fire.

26So Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego came out of the fire, 27 and the satraps, prefects, governors and royal advisers crowded around them. They saw that the fire had not harmed their bodies, nor was a hair of their heads singed; their robes were not scorched, and there was no smell of fire on them.

What this actually reminds me of is how Peter says that God used the persecution of the church as a way for the trial of their faith being more precious than gold. But because God stands among them within that fire, they are not harmed. That which was intended for wickedness, God used for good and showed his allegiance to his people through this miracle. And the result is that Nebuchadnezzar praised God.

I think, also, the same methods and modes that persecuters meant to destroy the church, is used of God to ensnare them.

Psalm 9
3When mine enemies are turned back, they shall fall and perish at thy presence. 4For thou hast maintained my right and my cause; thou satest in the throne judging right. 8And he shall judge the world in righteousness, he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness. 9The LORD also will be a refuge for the oppressed, a refuge in times of trouble.

10And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: for thou, LORD, hast not forsaken them that seek thee. 11Sing praises to the LORD, which dwelleth in Zion: declare among the people his doings. 12When he maketh inquisition for blood, he remembereth them: he forgetteth not the cry of the humble. 15The heathen are sunk down in the pit that they made: in the net which they hid is their own foot taken.

16The LORD is known by the judgment which he executeth: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands.

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:  Seth...the enmity of the seeds includes the Heavenly hosts and satan and his messengers[armies]

[rosered]

  Malachi  4 

The Great Day of the Lord
1"For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace; and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be chaff;

and the day that is coming will set them ablaze," says the LORD of hosts,


"so that it will leave them neither root nor branch."


2"But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings;

and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall.


3"You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing," says the LORD of hosts....


I see the new testament   being fulfilled  as we  speak !!

[dajomaco]

Micah..this is in reply to your post #106....  I think there is a real danger for the saints to be corrupted through flatteries........

   that is the very thing I have mentioned when I spoke of 'but we are the elect"..and all you lowlifes are going to burn in hell forever

  ..or even in UR..burn in LOF ...........Israel was corrupted through flatteries..as being  a people for special possession..by God

   spiritual pride arrogance is a corruption through flattery[as if anyone had a reason to boast..since all have been concluded in sin]

   Satan will sift..attempt to draw out..any propensity of pride,arrogance or conceit in us......

   

Where spiritual pride is a concern.

There always seems to be a them or us.
When God separates the wheat from chaff .
He is not separating them from us.

He is separating my heart for himself.

[micah7:9]

Micah..this is in reply to your post #106....  I think there is a real danger for the saints to be corrupted through flatteries........

   that is the very thing I have mentioned when I spoke of 'but we are the elect"..and all you lowlifes are going to burn in hell forever

  ..or even in UR..burn in LOF ...........Israel was corrupted through flatteries..as being  a people for special possession..by God

   spiritual pride arrogance is a corruption through flattery[as if anyone had a reason to boast..since all have been concluded in sin]

   Satan will sift..attempt to draw out..any propensity of pride,arrogance or conceit in us......

   

This was to me I guess would you please explain "that is the very thing I have mentioned when I spoke of 'but we are the elect"..and all you lowlifes are going to burn in hell forever...."

[Seth]

Dajomaco, Jesus himself explains the meaning of the parable.

[Seth]

I think I have abided by this forum's rules about how to present ideas and I have respected those who have disagreed. Personally, I see no reason for God to have changed his methods in the Old Testament upon His people to the New Testament upon his people. This is why God's consuming fire is presented both as a warning from Moses and also a warning from the author of Hebrews concerning the spiritual Holy Land and the natural results of failing to enter his rest. The warning still stands. Even you admitted that whatever was going on in the lake of fire was most likely a horrible experience. Those were your words not mine.

"Even you admitted that whatever was going on in the lake of fire was most likely a horrible experience."

I most certainly did, that is exactly why the overcomer-elect- chosen would have no fear when he is represented and judged..... for there is no fear within that judgment of fire, the second death.

I may need to be corrected, but I went through this post about "fire" 3 times and did not find, "Even you admitted that whatever was going on in the lake of fire was most likely a horrible experience." So I must retract "I most certainly did....." what I found was

My last post Sept. 12 #192 Can a believer go to the lake of fire. Is my closest use of "horror"
"It just seems to me (imo) that your understanding has a touch of what is called here ET's, a vendetta of hate with joy with the outcome of the sinner. ET's desire a continuous burning fire of total horror and they are happy or it seems happy about it.. It is my understanding that God is Love (1 Jo. 4:16) and should that be true even though there will be judgment in the lake of fire it will be coming from a God who is love.
Heb 10:30  for we have known Him who is saying, `Vengeance is Mine, I will recompense, saith the Lord;' and again, `The Lord shall judge His people;' --
Heb 10:31  fearful is the falling into the hands of a living God.
That alone is the message to the sinner."

Sorry, the word was "terrible" not "horrible," then you added a bunch of stuff I never even implied, and certainly never said about the judgment.

I am referring to this.

Sorry for the misquote, but my point is that whether "terrible" or "horrible" I think we can both agree that ETers think it will be both. My point is that just because there is agreement that the judgments of God should be treated with gravity does not mean I speak anything resembling ET doctrine on the whole of it.

"It just seems to me (imo) that your understanding has a touch of what is called here ET's, a vendetta of hate with joy with the outcome of the sinner. ET's desire a continuous burning fire of total horror and they are happy or it seems happy about it.. It is my understanding that God is Love

How it "seems" to you is not what I actually said. I have been very consistent by saying that the Spirit and the Bride offer healing to the nations by way of entry into the spiritual City and away from spiritual death. I never said that the saints enjoy anything. In fact I have not touched on their emotional state at all. I have always talked about what they DO in the Day of the Lord.

[sheila]

willtry,Micah..when you said that LOF for some men reeked of ET doctrine...and as if some would take pleasure in seeing thier fellowman

  suffer in this way[just as we have wittnessed in some of the churches we come out of] I agree that this is a real pitfall that

those that think they are standing..must be aware of. That no flesh would boast[pride/arrogance/conciet come up in our hearts.]

   I believe Paul showed  the correct attitude..when the one man was 'cast out' for the destructin of the flesh..that the spirit be

saved on the day of the Lord. He counseled..when such a one recieved this rebuke..and it was sufficient for him..and he sorrowed

  over it..that he was to be recieved back in again. also,in the scriptures it speaks about those blinded for a time..but to be

  accepted back in again[like Israel that refused Jesus] and when speaking of such..it is also written.......

     'BUT WHAT WILL THE RECIEVING OF THEM BACK IN AGAIN BE BUT LIFE FROM THE DEAD...............for Paul said....we must not

  be ignorant of satan and his designs..to be overcome of him..in hardness of heart.....or not allowing for repentance to have its work

   He disciplines and corrects every son He recieves..so we can leave that in His capable hands to handle...heed His commands

   and remember no flesh shall boast..not even ours[Lord,Lord did we not do thus and thus]

[dajomaco]

Dajomaco, Jesus himself explains the meaning of the parable.

He Himself will baptize you with[g] the Holy Spirit and fire. 

[micah7:9]

willtry,Micah..when you said that LOF for some men reeked of ET doctrine...and as if some would take pleasure in seeing thier fellowman

  suffer in this way[just as we have wittnessed in some of the churches we come out of] I agree that this is a real pitfall that

those that think they are standing..must be aware of. That no flesh would boast[pride/arrogance/conciet come up in our hearts.]

   I believe Paul showed  the correct attitude..when the one man was 'cast out' for the destructin of the flesh..that the spirit be

saved on the day of the Lord. He counseled..when such a one recieved this rebuke..and it was sufficient for him..and he sorrowed

  over it..that he was to be recieved back in again. also,in the scriptures it speaks about those blinded for a time..but to be

  accepted back in again[like Israel that refused Jesus] and when speaking of such..it is also written.......

     'BUT WHAT WILL THE RECIEVING OF THEM BACK IN AGAIN BE BUT LIFE FROM THE DEAD...............for Paul said....we must not

  be ignorant of satan and his designs..to be overcome of him..in hardness of heart.....or not allowing for repentance to have its work

   He disciplines and corrects every son He recieves..so we can leave that in His capable hands to handle...heed His commands

   and remember no flesh shall boast..not even ours[Lord,Lord did we not do thus and thus]

"willtry,Micah..when you said that LOF for some men reeked of ET doctrine...and as if some would take pleasure in seeing thier fellowman"

I believe that what I spoke of was the continued use of "the wine and wrath of God" refering to the lof......I do not believe that the lof fire is the "the wine and wrath of God"  I believe that the lof is the final Judgment of ALL dead great and small, which is the second death. And the overcomer/elect have already died the second death. As Paul said, "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."
"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"


Is not the wine and wrath poured out on the ungodly and the wicked.. Babyon?

[Seth]

I am the one who has been talking about the "wine of God's wrath" the association of it being with the fire and brimstone of Revelation 14.

Revelation 14
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. 9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

There are many usages of the wine of God's wrath in the scripture, and what it does, and how that Babylon is a cup in the Lord's hand.

Jeremiah 51
6Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD'S vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence. 7Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD'S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.

Isaiah 9
18For wickedness burneth as the fire: it shall devour the briers and thorns, and shall kindle in the thickets of the forest, and they shall mount up like the lifting up of smoke. 19Through the wrath of the LORD of hosts is the land darkened, and the people shall be as the fuel of the fire: no man shall spare his brother. 20And he shall snatch on the right hand, and be hungry; and he shall eat on the left hand, and they shall not be satisfied: they shall eat every man the flesh of his own arm:

Am I supposed to believe these connections are all purely coincidental?

Is not the wine and wrath poured out on the ungodly and the wicked.. Babyon?

Yes.

That's why God says "come out of her my people that you not receive of her plagues."

[Seth]

Dajomaco, Jesus himself explains the meaning of the parable.

He Himself will baptize you with[g] the Holy Spirit and fire.

The same fire that the wicked have kindled strengthens the church, but destroys themselves. Ask Nebuchadnezzar's soldiers about that.

[rosered]

Micah..this is in reply to your post #106....  I think there is a real danger for the saints to be corrupted through flatteries........

   that is the very thing I have mentioned when I spoke of 'but we are the elect"..and all you lowlifes are going to burn in hell forever

  ..or even in UR..burn in LOF ...........Israel was corrupted through flatteries..as being  a people for special possession..by God

   spiritual pride arrogance is a corruption through flattery[as if anyone had a reason to boast..since all have been concluded in sin]

   Satan will sift..attempt to draw out..any propensity of pride,arrogance or conceit in us......

   

Where spiritual pride is a concern.

There always seems to be a them or us.
When God separates the wheat from chaff .
He is not separating them from us.

He is separating my heart for himself.

I see this   as well Daj !

Everyone who has ate of the  tree of knowledge of good and  evil    and the   Fiery Law is what    judges us
Paul explains this beautifully   in several places

  making what is left good and the perfect shall come after  :thumbsup:



20But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.[ the firstfruits are those  whom come with him But in fact, Christ has been raised from the dead. He is the first of a great harvest of all who have died. ]


21For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead.


22For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.


23But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.


24Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.


7Brethren, join in following my example, and observe those who walk according to the pattern you have in us. 18For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ, 19whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things
25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.  [those as enemies of the cross of Christ ]Phillipians  3 above  verses


26The last enemy to be destroyed is death.[Lake of   Fire ]



27For "Godc has put all things in subjection under his feet."


But when it says, "all things are put in subjection," it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him.


28When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

29Otherwise, what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead?


If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf? [ baptism of Holy Spirit and fire ]     


30Why are we in danger every hour?

31I protest, brothers, by my pride in you, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die every day!

32What do I gain if, humanly speaking, I fought with beasts at Ephesus?[  brute beastly men]

If the dead are not raised, "Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die."

33Do not be deceived: "Bad company ruins good morals."

34Wake up from your drunken stupor, as is right, and do not go on sinning. For some have no knowledge of God. I say this to your shame.

[lastpost]

The humble heart can open the gates to Truth...

"...Whosoever should not be receiving the kingdom of God as a little child, may under no circumstances be entering into it..." Luke 18:17

"...If you should not be turning and becoming as little children, you may by no means be entering into the kingdom of the heavens..." Matthew 18:3

"...For even the Son of Mankind came, not to be served, but to serve..." Mark 10:45

"...If I should be speaking in the languages of men and of the messengers, yet should have no love, I have become resounding copper or a clanging cymbal..." 1 Corinthians 13:1

"...When arrogance comes, then dishonour shall also come. Yet with the meek is wisdom..." Proverbs 11:2

"...with humility, deeming one another superior to one's self, not each noting that which is his own, but each that of others also. For let this disposition be in you, which is in Christ Jesus also..." Philippians 2

"...He shall cause the humble to tread in right judgment, And He shall teach the humble His way..." Psalms 25:9

"...Lift My yoke upon you and be learning from Me, for meek am I and humble in heart..." Matthew 11:29

The portals to God's Heart open for the humble of heart