Deu 4:24 for Jehovah thy God is a fire consuming--a zealous God.

[Seth]

Check 2 Peter 3 for what the fire does for ungodly men and where the elect should hope to be instead.

[micah7:9]

Yes, God's Elect must also die the SECOND death.
Rom. 8:13 For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.

1)  the wicked world: "For if you live after the flesh, you shall DIE..." Not only will they die, because"it is appointed to men once to die" (Heb. 9:27). But after they die, they will then come up in the resurrection to judgment, which is the "lake of fire/second death" (Rev. 20:13-14).

2) for God's Elect: "...but if you through the Spirit do mortify [kill, put to death] the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Rom. 8:13). Therefore, in the resurrection, "...you shall not be hurt of the second death" (Rev. 2:11). "...and he that has part in the first resurrection on such the second death has no power" (Rev. 20:6).

The second death is not a literal death of the physical body--neither for the Elect nor the Wicked. It is a death of the carnal mind, the heart of sin, the nature of sin. Our literal, physical flesh and blood does not die a second time. But all character flaws associated with sin must die: All believing Elect Saints of God must DIE TO THE FLESH OF THE CARNAL MIND. Death is the daily life of the Believer!

[rosered]

Purification and destruction are not mutually exclusive concepts. The Law of God is NOT death itself. It reveals that those who try to obey it are carnal minded. It's the carnal mind that produces death. The Law reveals that.

   Have you considered this scripture    very descriptive of death  ? the letter of the law that kills

    2 Cor   3
[b]But if the ministry of death in The Scripture carved in stone was with glory[/b], so that the children of Israel were not able to gaze at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face ( that which has been canceled ),


in the  context
  of both Laws under  both covenants



4 Such confidence we have through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, 6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came [c]with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?


9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. 10 For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if that which fades away was [d]with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.

[micah7:9]

The elect doesn't do that Micah. The fire is only for those who do. According to Christ, those who produce talents will receive the joy of the Lord not darkness and death.

The unprofitable servant receives death.

I know the elect do not, that is why I tried to take the "wine of God's wrath" out of the equation of the Lake of Fire.

[Seth]

Yes, God's Elect must also die the SECOND death.
Rom. 8:13 For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.

1)  the wicked world: "For if you live after the flesh, you shall DIE..." Not only will they die, because"it is appointed to men once to die" (Heb. 9:27). But after they die, they will then come up in the resurrection to judgment, which is the "lake of fire/second death" (Rev. 20:13-14).

2) for God's Elect: "...but if you through the Spirit do mortify [kill, put to death] the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Rom. 8:13). Therefore, in the resurrection, "...you shall not be hurt of the second death" (Rev. 2:11). "...and he that has part in the first resurrection on such the second death has no power" (Rev. 20:6).

The second death is not a literal death of the physical body--neither for the Elect nor the Wicked. It is a death of the carnal mind, the heart of sin, the nature of sin. Our literal, physical flesh and blood does not die a second time. But all character flaws associated with sin must die: All believing Elect Saints of God must DIE TO THE FLESH OF THE CARNAL MIND. Death is the daily life of the Believer!

You quoted it yourself. Being dead is to be carnally minded. If you follow the flesh, that death. Walk by the Spirit and you will have life and peace. The Lake of Fire is not life and peace.

[Seth]

Purification and destruction are not mutually exclusive concepts. The Law of God is NOT death itself. It reveals that those who try to obey it are carnal minded. It's the carnal mind that produces death. The Law reveals that.

   Have you considered this scripture    very descriptive of death  ? the letter of the law that kills

    2 Cor   3
[b]But if the ministry of death in The Scripture carved in stone was with glory[/b], so that the children of Israel were not able to gaze at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face ( that which has been canceled ),


in the  context
  of both Laws under  both covenants



4 Such confidence we have through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, 6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came [c]with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?


9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. 10 For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if that which fades away was [d]with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.

The Law is  immigration of death because of how sin kills us by the commandments. Romans 7. The Law is actually intended unto life. Bubbly the water of life can produce life.

[rosered]

Yes, God's Elect must also die the SECOND death.
Rom. 8:13 For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.

1)  the wicked world: "For if you live after the flesh, you shall DIE..." Not only will they die, because"it is appointed to men once to die" (Heb. 9:27). But after they die, they will then come up in the resurrection to judgment, which is the "lake of fire/second death" (Rev. 20:13-14).

2) for God's Elect: "...but if you through the Spirit do mortify [kill, put to death] the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Rom. 8:13). Therefore, in the resurrection, "...you shall not be hurt of the second death" (Rev. 2:11). "...and he that has part in the first resurrection on such the second death has no power" (Rev. 20:6).

The second death is not a literal death of the physical body--neither for the Elect nor the Wicked. It is a death of the carnal mind, the heart of sin, the nature of sin. Our literal, physical flesh and blood does not die a second time. But all character flaws associated with sin must die: All believing Elect Saints of God must DIE TO THE FLESH OF THE CARNAL MIND. Death is the daily life of the Believer!

:thumbsup:

  Yes  putting to death  the old man     and the new  one  is life in   Christ   Colss    3 ...4When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory. 5Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry. 6For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience

  I see that as  still under the law of Judgment    law  liberty


  James 2 A Warning against Favoritism 


...11For He who said, "DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY," also said, "DO NOT COMMIT MURDER.

" Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

12So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.


13For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.

[Seth]

Yes, God's Elect must also die the SECOND death.
Rom. 8:13 For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.

1)  the wicked world: "For if you live after the flesh, you shall DIE..." Not only will they die, because"it is appointed to men once to die" (Heb. 9:27). But after they die, they will then come up in the resurrection to judgment, which is the "lake of fire/second death" (Rev. 20:13-14).

2) for God's Elect: "...but if you through the Spirit do mortify [kill, put to death] the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Rom. 8:13). Therefore, in the resurrection, "...you shall not be hurt of the second death" (Rev. 2:11). "...and he that has part in the first resurrection on such the second death has no power" (Rev. 20:6).

The second death is not a literal death of the physical body--neither for the Elect nor the Wicked. It is a death of the carnal mind, the heart of sin, the nature of sin. Our literal, physical flesh and blood does not die a second time. But all character flaws associated with sin must die: All believing Elect Saints of God must DIE TO THE FLESH OF THE CARNAL MIND. Death is the daily life of the Believer!

:thumbsup:

  Yes  putting to death  the old man     and the new  one  is life in   Christ   Colss    3 ...4When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory. 5Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry. 6For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience

  I see that as  still under the law of Judgment    law  liberty


  James 2 A Warning against Favoritism 


...11For He who said, "DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY," also said, "DO NOT COMMIT MURDER.

" Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

12So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.


13For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.

the law never, never brought life. That is what the Holy Spirit does. The law only brought death because the power of sin is the law. Our carnal natures are what put us to death when we follow the flesh. That is why the law is called ministration of death. Only the Holy Spirit bring his life and that is why the spirit and the bride say come and drink the water of life freely. Outside is death

[Seth]

is the law ever brought life, we don't need faith.

[micah7:9]

JEHOVAH GOD IS THE LAW!

[Seth]

Jehovah God is a tree inside the city and the water of life. The law is a ministration of death because of the way it interacts with the carnal mind. you must have the Holy Spirit for life you must have the water of life. Otherwise you have death.

[micah7:9]

Yes, God's Elect must also die the SECOND death.
Rom. 8:13 For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.

1)  the wicked world: "For if you live after the flesh, you shall DIE..." Not only will they die, because"it is appointed to men once to die" (Heb. 9:27). But after they die, they will then come up in the resurrection to judgment, which is the "lake of fire/second death" (Rev. 20:13-14).

2) for God's Elect: "...but if you through the Spirit do mortify [kill, put to death] the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Rom. 8:13). Therefore, in the resurrection, "...you shall not be hurt of the second death" (Rev. 2:11). "...and he that has part in the first resurrection on such the second death has no power" (Rev. 20:6).

The second death is not a literal death of the physical body--neither for the Elect nor the Wicked. It is a death of the carnal mind, the heart of sin, the nature of sin. Our literal, physical flesh and blood does not die a second time. But all character flaws associated with sin must die: All believing Elect Saints of God must DIE TO THE FLESH OF THE CARNAL MIND. Death is the daily life of the Believer!

:thumbsup:

  Yes  putting to death  the old man     and the new  one  is life in   Christ   Colss    3 ...4When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory. 5Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry. 6For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience

  I see that as  still under the law of Judgment    law  liberty


  James 2 A Warning against Favoritism 


...11For He who said, "DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY," also said, "DO NOT COMMIT MURDER.

" Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

12So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.


13For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.

:thumbsup:

[micah7:9]

Jehovah God is a tree inside the city and the water of life. The law is a ministration of death because of the way it interacts with the carnal mind. you must have the Holy Spirit for life you must have the water of life. Otherwise you have death.

Does one have to be judged before they get to that tree?

[Seth]

This idea that the "ministration of death" brings liberty through punishment I believe works against what Paul taught.

Romans 7
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death.

That is the manner by which the law is a ministration of death VS the ministration of the Spirit.

Romans 8
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Does one have to be judged before they get to that tree?

One must repent and heed the words of the Spirit and the Bride.

[sheila]

   Isaaih40;1   Comfort ye,Comfort ye my people. Speak comfortably to Jerusalem. Tell her that her warfare is accomplished.

   That her iniquity is pardoned,for she hath rec'd double for all her sins.


   Isaaih 52;7  How beautiful on the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, thatpublisheth peace,that

  bring good tidings of good,that publisheth salvation.


    Isaaih 57;16   I WILL NOT CONTEND FOREVER..NEITHER WILL I ALWAYS BE WROTH......for the spirit would fail before me

     and the souls that I have made,


     Malachi 3;6    For I AM the LORD,I change not... THEREFORE YE SONS OF MEN ARE NOT CONSUMED


    mALACHI 3;17    AND THEY SHALL BE MINE SAYETH THE LRD IN THE DAY I MAKE UP MY JEWELS

     AND I WILL SPARE THEM AS A MAN SPARETH HIS SONS

[Seth]

What does it mean to be a cup clean on the outside but not the inside? the Spirit deals with the carnal nature. The Law cannot. That is why sin works with the Law to bring forth "fruit unto death."

I believe the LOF is the motions of sin which bring forth fruit unto death.

The Law is not death UNTO ITSELF. The Law is holy. Sin works to deceive man who is under the Law to bring forth death fruit.

[micah7:9]

IMO I do not see anywhere in the lake of fire that there is any fruit brought forth, but there will be a destroying and purifying going on bringing about the second death.

[Seth]

I do see somewhere where LIFE is contrasted with DEATH and separated by an open gate, wherein lies the tree of life and the water of life, and how that "the wages of sin is death." And I think the scriptures are abundantly clear that the SPIRIT brings life, not the Law, and not any other thing.

Galatians 3
2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

[Seth]

Isaiah 9
18 For wickedness burneth as the fire: it shall devour the briers and thorns, and shall kindle in the thickets of the forest, and they shall mount up like the lifting up of smoke. 19 Through the wrath of the Lord of hosts is the land darkened, and the people shall be as the fuel of the fire: no man shall spare his brother. 20 And he shall snatch on the right hand, and be hungry; and he shall eat on the left hand, and they shall not be satisfied: they shall eat every man the flesh of his own arm:

If to be carnally minded is death, that's a pretty good description of it.

[marie glen]

2 Peter 3 -

10 and it will come -- the day of the Lord -- as a thief in the night, in which the heavens with a rushing noise will pass away, and the elements with burning heat be dissolved, and earth and the works in it shall be burnt up.

14 wherefore, beloved, these things waiting for, be diligent, spotless and unblameable, by Him to be found in peace,

[Seth]

The elements are not physical, and the fire is not physical either. From what I see in the scripture, the word for "elements" refers to rudimentary, governing principles of man. The fire is reserved for the destruction of the ungodly. 

The above fire, does a pretty good job of that, IMHO.

[marie glen]

You quoted it yourself. Being dead is to be verbally minded. If you follow the flesh, that death. Walk by the Spirit and you will have life and peace. The Lake of Fire is not life and peace.

haha! you must be using a tablet or phone that corrects your spelling.. I know there's fierce debate on verb vs noun, but to be verbally minded is death.. sorry, couldn't resist! :))
   

[Seth]

LOL, yeah, spell corrector is a double edged sword.  :laughing7:

[marie glen]

The elements are not physical, and the fire is not physical either. From what I see in the scripture, the word for "elements" refers to rudimentary, governing principles of man. The fire is reserved for the destruction of the ungodly. 

The above fire, does a pretty good job of that, IMHO.

the ungodly and the world built upon un-godliness -

2 Peter 3:10 "and it will come -- the day of the Lord... ... earth and the works in it shall be burnt up."

[marie glen]

LOL, yeah, spell corrector is a double edged sword.  :laughing7:

yes, it is! :)