Why do people like Hitler deserve to be saved?

[Lazarus Short]

HE SAYS HE LIKES HUMOR!

[marie glen]

You have become pretty bold of late Bro. Laz :happyclap: :laugh:

    :LH: that was cute!

HE SAYS HE LIKES HUMOR!

I LIKE HUMOR

      :LH: those too! :)) ..God bless!

[marie glen]

WW, I like the statement, "Nothing can operate beyond its design parameters."

Jesus demonstrated the proper abode as He washed His disciples feet.

   :banana: :banana: :thumbsup:     

[Tom]

This is an argument that so many people make. Why do tyrants like Hitler and murderers deserve to be saved?

Nobody deserves to be saved, but God is the savior of all mankind. Anybody who thinks somebody else shouldn't get saved is just self-righteous.

""Not one is just"--not even one." (Romans 3:10)

"We rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers." (1 Timothy 4:10)

[Shev]

This is an argument that so many people make. Why do tyrants like Hitler and murderers deserve to be saved?

Nobody deserves to be saved, but God is the savior of all mankind. Anybody who thinks somebody else shouldn't get saved is just self-righteous.

""Not one is just"--not even one." (Romans 3:10)

"We rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers." (1 Timothy 4:10)

:iagree: Amen Tom!

Seeing as Hitler is often used as a touchstone of the UR debate, I think it is worth remembering two things also. Firstly, there are many people as evil as Hitler in every generation, but what Hitler had was more opportunity to act on it, with wider repercussions. In a way, he is a kind of revelation of just how much evil can reside in the human heart, but there can be just as much in a man who has no opportunity to kill six million Jews and countless others.

Secondly, I find Hitler a very ironic subject for the ETers to use as justification, as he was known for allowing/commanding torture, murder, and all manner of heinous crimes including burning those in the camps in ovens. And yet, is this not very similar behavior that ETers attribute to our Father, who they claim will show similar propensities?

This leads to a couple of obvious questions: If our aim is to be like God, and God tortures people without mercy, should we not be the same? Secondly, if Jesus Christ fully revealed the Father, and God tortures people without mercy, where was this particular trait manifested in the life of Christ? Yet more exposure of the utter absurdity of ET.

[rosered]

This is an argument that so many people make. Why do tyrants like Hitler and murderers deserve to be saved?

Nobody deserves to be saved, but God is the savior of all mankind. Anybody who thinks somebody else shouldn't get saved is just self-righteous.

""Not one is just"--not even one." (Romans 3:10)

"We rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers." (1 Timothy 4:10)

:iagree: Amen Tom!

Seeing as Hitler is often used as a touchstone of the UR debate, I think it is worth remembering two things also. Firstly, there are many people as evil as Hitler in every generation, but what Hitler had was more opportunity to act on it, with wider repercussions. In a way, he is a kind of revelation of just how much evil can reside in the human heart, but there can be just as much in a man who has no opportunity to kill six million Jews and countless others.

Secondly, I find Hitler a very ironic subject for the ETers to use as justification, as he was known for allowing/commanding torture, murder, and all manner of heinous crimes including burning those in the camps in ovens. And yet, is this not very similar behavior that ETers attribute to our Father, who they claim will show similar propensities?

This leads to a couple of obvious questions: If our aim is to be like God, and God tortures people without mercy, should we not be the same? Secondly, if Jesus Christ fully revealed the Father, and God tortures people without mercy, where was this particular trait manifested in the life of Christ? Yet more exposure of the utter absurdity of ET.

  Love  how you expounded  Shev ,     this is an excellent    retrieve ,

  and recovery    of the thoughts many   hold as Truth !!! 

Two edged Sword      of the unjust judges    and double standard   :thumbsup:

  Not knowing   the righteousness      of God

Romans 10

2For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.


3For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own,

they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.


4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes

[jbertonbounds]

Hitler deserves it for the same reason our own sons or daughters deserves our love. NOTHING would ever make me stop loving my children, and yearning for them to have abundant lives. There is nothing they could do to earn my love, because they always have it, they always have and they always will. My love for them was and is and is to come. How much more so does our Father love His children, the "fruit of His loins", however wayward?

In fact it was after my daughter was born that I truly couldn't stand the notion of this eternal hell anymore. I had met God, I knew His great love and His goodness, and now that I was experiencing my own parenthood I just knew there surely was no way God could ever send any of His creation to this "eternal torment". I prayed for answers and He gave them. Truly, He is Love.

*LIKE*

[Tom]

This is an argument that so many people make. Why do tyrants like Hitler and murderers deserve to be saved?

Nobody deserves to be saved, but God is the savior of all mankind. Anybody who thinks somebody else shouldn't get saved is just self-righteous.

""Not one is just"--not even one." (Romans 3:10)

"We rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers." (1 Timothy 4:10)

:iagree: Amen Tom!

Seeing as Hitler is often used as a touchstone of the UR debate, I think it is worth remembering two things also. Firstly, there are many people as evil as Hitler in every generation, but what Hitler had was more opportunity to act on it, with wider repercussions. In a way, he is a kind of revelation of just how much evil can reside in the human heart, but there can be just as much in a man who has no opportunity to kill six million Jews and countless others.

Secondly, I find Hitler a very ironic subject for the ETers to use as justification, as he was known for allowing/commanding torture, murder, and all manner of heinous crimes including burning those in the camps in ovens. And yet, is this not very similar behavior that ETers attribute to our Father, who they claim will show similar propensities?

This leads to a couple of obvious questions: If our aim is to be like God, and God tortures people without mercy, should we not be the same? Secondly, if Jesus Christ fully revealed the Father, and God tortures people without mercy, where was this particular trait manifested in the life of Christ? Yet more exposure of the utter absurdity of ET.

Amen, rather than torturing without mercy Christ said to love even our enemies.

"You hear that it was declared, 'You shall be loving your associate' and you shall be hating your enemy. Yet I am saying to you, Love your enemies, and pray for those who are persecuting you, so that you may become sons of your Father Who is in the heavens, for He causes His sun to rise on the wicked and the good, and makes it rain on the just and the unjust." (Matthew 5:43-45)

[jbertonbounds]

Seeing as Hitler is often used as a touchstone of the UR debate, I think it is worth remembering two things also. Firstly, there are many people as evil as Hitler in every generation, but what Hitler had was more opportunity to act on it, with wider repercussions. In a way, he is a kind of revelation of just how much evil can reside in the human heart, but there can be just as much in a man who has no opportunity to kill six million Jews and countless others.

Secondly, I find Hitler a very ironic subject for the ETers to use as justification, as he was known for allowing/commanding torture, murder, and all manner of heinous crimes including burning those in the camps in ovens. And yet, is this not very similar behavior that ETers attribute to our Father, who they claim will show similar propensities?

This leads to a couple of obvious questions: If our aim is to be like God, and God tortures people without mercy, should we not be the same? Secondly, if Jesus Christ fully revealed the Father, and God tortures people without mercy, where was this particular trait manifested in the life of Christ? Yet more exposure of the utter absurdity of ET.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[rosered]

Amen, rather than torturing without mercy Christ said to love even our enemies.

"You hear that it was declared, 'You shall be loving your associate' and you shall be hating your enemy. Yet I am saying to you, Love your enemies, and pray for those who are persecuting you, so that you may become sons of your Father Who is in the heavens, for He causes His sun to rise on the wicked and the good, and makes it rain on the just and the unjust." (Matthew 5:43-45)

RIGHT ON TOM!!

           This is what turned it around for me !  love your enemies ? WHAT !!
This is when   the bomb dropped on me  :Oops:   GOD in merciful always even in our stupidity ...and believing a lie

[dajomaco]

Hitler deserves it for the same reason our own sons or daughters deserves our love. NOTHING would ever make me stop loving my children, and yearning for them to have abundant lives. There is nothing they could do to earn my love, because they always have it, they always have and they always will. My love for them was and is and is to come. How much more so does our Father love His children, the "fruit of His loins", however wayward?

In fact it was after my daughter was born that I truly couldn't stand the notion of this eternal hell anymore. I had met God, I knew His great love and His goodness, and now that I was experiencing my own parenthood I just knew there surely was no way God could ever send any of His creation to this "eternal torment". I prayed for answers and He gave them. Truly, He is Love.

*LIKE*

We no longer call God creature.
He call him Father

[erwan]

Anonymous people are as bas as histler

Hitler was simply an horrible person with lot of power

[eaglesway]

Hitler was an anti-Christ. Anti as in his case, opposite of Christ. A savior born of destruction, the very antithesis of the divine nature.  Even in the harshest view, should God pay him 6 million lifetimes of suffering, it would not be forever, and at the end of it, the point would be correction before retribution.

I do not hold that extreme kind of view. I am just making the point. Burning forever could only be justified if the being in torment remained evil forever, in which case, God would be tolerating the persistence in evil of most of those He created in a place outside of Himself forever.

This cannot be argued against in any reasonable way, because anyone who believes God would torment forever beings who had seen the error of their ways, being who had the "evil" purged out of them by exposure to unapproachable light and the consuming fire of the God who is love is someone who has no real familiarity with the divine nature and etrnal power of God, the I AM, YHWH, our Creator, our Redeemer and Sustainer.

So, evil wins, in the ET view- over most of His creation. IMO it is an insane view, and that is why it causes SO MUCH pain and distress among the truly born of God who are held within the chains of it.

[micah7:9]

Hitler was an anti-Christ. Anti as in his case, opposite of Christ. A savior born of destruction, the very antithesis of the divine nature.  Even in the harshest view, should God pay him 6 million lifetimes of suffering, it would not be forever, and at the end of it, the point would be correction before retribution.

I do not hold that extreme kind of view. I am just making the point. Burning forever could only be justified if the being in torment remained evil forever, in which case, God would be tolerating the persistence in evil of most of those He created in a place outside of Himself forever.

This cannot be argued against in any reasonable way, because anyone who believes God would torment forever beings who had seen the error of their ways, being who had the "evil" purged out of them by exposure to unapproachable light and the consuming fire of the God who is love is someone who has no real familiarity with the divine nature and etrnal power of God, the I AM, YHWH, our Creator, our Redeemer and Sustainer.

So, evil wins, in the ET view- over most of His creation. IMO it is an insane view, and that is why it causes SO MUCH pain and distress among the truly born of God who are held within the chains of it.

Amen!

[Seth]

Yes, God would be PRESERVING sin rather than doing what he did when he was in Jesus on the cross, which was to judge sin. God would be making sure that sin prevails and Jesus fails.

[Seth]

HE SAYS HE LIKES HUMOR!

Ouch. My eyes are ringing.

[micah7:9]

HE SAYS HE LIKES HUMOR!

Ouch. My eyes are ringing.

:trampoline: :happyclap: :rolllol:

[rosered]

Hitler was an anti-Christ. Anti as in his case, opposite of Christ. A savior born of destruction, the very antithesis of the divine nature.  Even in the harshest view, should God pay him 6 million lifetimes of suffering, it would not be forever, and at the end of it, the point would be correction before retribution.

I do not hold that extreme kind of view. I am just making the point. Burning forever could only be justified if the being in torment remained evil forever, in which case, God would be tolerating the persistence in evil of most of those He created in a place outside of Himself forever.

This cannot be argued against in any reasonable way, because anyone who believes God would torment forever beings who had seen the error of their ways, being who had the "evil" purged out of them by exposure to unapproachable light and the consuming fire of the God who is love is someone who has no real familiarity with the divine nature and etrnal power of God, the I AM, YHWH, our Creator, our Redeemer and Sustainer.

So, evil wins, in the ET view- over most of His creation. IMO it is an insane view, and that is why it causes SO MUCH pain and distress among the truly born of God who are held within the chains of it.

Amen!

  Amen   !!Paul also agrees Brothers !!

Eph  6 19and pray on my behalf, that utterance may be given to me in the opening of my mouth,


to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel,


20for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in proclaiming it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

[Tom]

I think it's crazy when folks bring up the Hitler thing because what they're really saying is that God should be much worse than Hitler. I think torturing the majority of humanity forever by keeping them all alive in fire is much worse than what Hitler did, and to say it's necessary for justice to be done is to have a distorted idea of God's judgment which is always corrective.

[Seth]

 :thumbsup:

[Lazarus Short]

I think it's crazy when folks bring up the Hitler thing because what they're really saying is that God should be much worse than Hitler. I think torturing the majority of humanity forever by keeping them all alive in fire is much worse than what Hitler did, and to say it's necessary for justice to be done is to have a distorted idea of God's judgment which is always corrective.

I'm reminded of a poem once quoted by one of my creative writing teachers:

If you see a blind man
kick him!
Why should you be kinder than God?

[Tom]

Yeah, that's some more distorted logic. I believe that someday even the blind will see the light, and it's hard to imagine how they will feel when that happens. I think they will probably be overwhelmed with emotion.

[Lazarus Short]

I believe the healing of the blind by Jesus was a metaphor for what will happen to us all when we get glorified minds and bodies, with the FULL indwelling of the Spirit:

WOW

[Tom]

Yeah, I think that's definitely going to be a big WOW!

[rosered]

I believe the healing of the blind by Jesus was a metaphor for what will happen to us all when we get glorified minds and bodies, with the FULL indwelling of the Spirit:

WOW

  Yes Paul was struck blind   when he was Saul    , it changed him  and his course completely    from one side to the other    and found a middle ground