Why do people like Hitler deserve to be saved?

[saintwalee]

Some clay does, and it's the first step to repentance.

Ha!

But, was the clay molded to ask that question?

[micah7:9]

 :iagree:

[WhiteWings]

Some clay does, and it's the first step to repentance.

Ha!

But, was the clay molded to ask that question?

Nothing can operate beyond its design parameters.

Jeremiah 13:23 Can an Ethiopian change his skin or a leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil.


Faith is a gift of God. Asking the first question might very well be the very first phase of unwrapping that gift.

So.... it could be argued that all clay is designed to 'ask' but it has to be triggered by theFather.
:2c:

[lomarah]

As a PS;

I truly believe it is the consequences of our own actions that cause us the most torment. I believe a large part of Hitlers torment will be knowing, at least in part, the pain he has caused to many. I believe my torment will be the same.  :2c:

If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

One benefit of forgiveness is no torment.

True, but I meant until we repent of those things. I am not one to believe in eternal torment. ;)

[marie glen]

Some clay does, and it's the first step to repentance.

Ha!

But, was the clay molded to ask that question?

Nothing can operate beyond its design parameters.

Jeremiah 13:23 Can an Ethiopian change his skin or a leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil.


Faith is a gift of God. Asking the first question might very well be the very first phase of unwrapping that gift.

So.... it could be argued that all clay is designed to 'ask' but it has to be triggered by theFather.
:2c:

           :iagree: :iagree:
  ..so it seems to me, that 'punishment' is not God's motive.. And it seems to me He could bring every one to repentance at any time and even every one on the planet at the same time.. if He so wished..
..but He is - for His own reasons and counsel - allowing things, for the most part, to unfold as they will? (In the affairs of men and the world, that is, though of course He being still fully in control!)

[eaglesway]

WW, I like the statement, "Nothing can operate beyond its design parameters."

To me this describes very clearly how God moderates the actions of mankind. In Jude, the angels who" left their proper abode" were placed in aidos chains awaiting the judgment of the Day. In Romans 12 Paul said, "By the grace given to me(within my given design parameters) I say unto everyman among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought(stay within your design parameters/proper abode), but judge yourself soberly for to each is given a measure of faith(do not pre-empt the design parameters of others, we all play a part).

Humble yourself under the mighty hand of God and in due time(proper time) He will lift you up(proper abode/design parameters)

Let patience have its perfect work that you might be mature(humble/meek) and whole(equipped) lacking nothing.

That is why "ruling" others from the flesh with a mixture of self-interest is so chastised.

If you have selfish ambition and bitter jealousy in your heart do not be arrogant and lie against the truth. This wisdom is not from above but is earthly soulish demonic(exceeding design parameters, leaving the proper abode). The wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, easily entreated, full of mercy and good fruit, and the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by them who make peace.(proper abode/design parameters).

In the world, mankind is always at war over this. "What is the source of the wars that wage among your members?"

If everyone humbled themselves under the mighty hand of God there would be more than enough to go around(in terms of service, provision, experiencing the glory of God)

Jesus demonstrated the proper abode as He washed His disciples feet.

Let each one of you exercise his/her special gift in serving one another and so be good stewards of the many faceted grace of God.

When all are servants and stewards of the grace of God then "they were all as one soul and there was great grace upon them and no one among them had any need". So will it be in the ages to come, albeit in the next age by the superior power of Christ,(imo) in the age after that because all are as He is, having received new natures.

[Tony N]

This is an argument that so many people make. Why do tyrants like Hitler and murderers deserve to be saved?

They didn't do anything to deserve to be saved and neither did the saved do anything to deserve to be saved.
If we deserve something it is no longer grace that saves us but works.

The reason Hitler and even, I know this might seem shocking but . . . and even Mother Theresa (shocking, I know), will eventually be saved is due to Christ giving Himself a ransom for them (1 Tim.2:6) and based on that God will have them to be saved including the rest of mankind.

[joeteekay]

Yup, right on.   :thumbsup:

[Jason76]

There are millions like Hitler or Stalin right now.  Sure, they haven't killed, but Jesus said "murder was in the heart".  To be honest, those with the heart of Hitler, but haven't done anything, don't deserve salvation.  However, God says they will eventually be saved.

[Jason76]

This is an argument that so many people make. Why do tyrants like Hitler and murderers deserve to be saved?

They didn't do anything to deserve to be saved and neither did the saved do anything to deserve to be saved.
If we deserve something it is no longer grace that saves us but works.

The reason Hitler and even, I know this might seem shocking but . . . and even Mother Theresa (shocking, I know), will eventually be saved is due to Christ giving Himself a ransom for them (1 Tim.2:6) and based on that God will have them to be saved including the rest of mankind.

People brainwashed by racism, believe Hitler was Mother Theresa, and what the real Mother Theresa did, hurt mankind, LOL.  That shows you how Satan comes as an "angel of light".

[eaglesway]

This is an argument that so many people make. Why do tyrants like Hitler and murderers deserve to be saved?

They didn't do anything to deserve to be saved and neither did the saved do anything to deserve to be saved.
If we deserve something it is no longer grace that saves us but works.

The reason Hitler and even, I know this might seem shocking but . . . and even Mother Theresa (shocking, I know), will eventually be saved is due to Christ giving Himself a ransom for them (1 Tim.2:6) and based on that God will have them to be saved including the rest of mankind.

Amen.

Col 1:21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach.

[Shev]

This is an argument that so many people make. Why do tyrants like Hitler and murderers deserve to be saved?

I feel that this argument is always the wrong way around (and I don't mean that to sound contradictory or rude). We always start by saying, in effect: "Look what great evil has been committed! What can be measured against it? How can it be blotted out?"

I believe the better way of looking at it is this: is there ANYTHING that the blood of Jesus Christ is not powerful to conquer? Is there any death too dark for His light? Any sin too gross for His sacrifice? Is there any man too far lost in outer darkness for His saving hand? No, No and a thousand times no!

The problem with arguing from the viewpoint of the evil committed, is that we risk extolling the power of darkness instead of the power of Christ, being amazed at the depths of man's depravity instead of the overarching heights of God's love in Jesus Christ. Far, far better to start at the point of what Christ HAS done, and looking from that pinnacle of glory, see an entire universe, with every realm in its entirety, becoming subject to this wonderful King owing to the reality of Him being truly the obedient Son of the Father.

Be assured in every way - if the blood of Christ is indeed sufficient to pay for even the worst sins, then He also has the power to bring the worst sinner into subjection and holiness, having received this power from the Father Himself.

Herein is the great victory we rejoice in!

[dajomaco]

 :iagree:

We have a measurement  of sin that is not,
equal to Gods measurement.
What if God gave you every desire of your heart and you still hated him.

[Lazarus Short]

:iagree:

We have a measurement  of sin that is not,
equal to Gods measurement.
What if God gave you every desire of your heart and you still hated him.

I look at it this way:  Compared to the vast gulf between men and God. the difference between the best saint and the worst sinner, say Hitler, is a micron, while that vast gulf is a light year.  Seen like that, we can put away judgment more easily and smile on our brothers and sisters.

[sheila]

   :iagree:  not compare ourselves with one another..but Christ.....that always has away of letting the air

  out of the baloon[puffed up,much?] and deflate the pride/ego of those saved by grace..but keep forgetting.

[sheila]

Isaaih 26;17-18

[Lazarus Short]

What if God gave you every desire of your heart and you still hated him.

What if God withheld everything that you saw as good, and you still loved Him?

[micah7:9]

You have become pretty bold of late Bro. Laz :happyclap: :laugh:

[Lazarus Short]

You have become pretty bold of late Bro. Laz :happyclap: :laugh:

Why, thank you, Micah!  Was I not bold before?

Now, if you are referring to the look of my text, I am simply using Arial Black, a font allowed here.  My 64-year-old eyes do not tolerate the typical tiny type very well.  I do the same on other www forums as well.

[micah7:9]

You have become pretty bold of late Bro. Laz :happyclap: :laugh:

Why, thank you, Micah!  Was I not bold before?

Now, if you are referring to the look of my text, I am simply using Arial Black, a font allowed here.  My 64-year-old eyes do not tolerate the typical tiny type very well.  I do the same on other www forums as well.

You have most certainly always been bold  Bro. Laz! Har :banana: Myself at 70 find reading a computer screen detrimental, for that matter reading a stumble. I have found myself reading the Bible on ESword and the translations a cause for my dimming. I have over 15 translations and 3 concordances and I will say without dispute......I have become lazy in my study. But ah such is the world-kosmos-arrangement of the day. By the way I do not mind.....it was humor my friend humor. :dsunny:

[Lazarus Short]

Ya, I kinda knew it was humor, and was mostly playing along.  I do like large type, though.

[micah7:9]

By the way it does help me so my thanks :dsunny:

[Lazarus Short]

You are welcome.  :declare:

[eaglesway]

I LIKE HUMOR

[micah7:9]

What was that I didn't hear you?