john 3:36

[marie glen]

...a note about He comes quickly.. could be just that.. when He comes, He comes quickly..

like the third woe occurs quickly, Rev 11:14

and also "Behold He comes with clouds and every eye will see Him" Rev 1:7

and "as you have seen Him go, so shall you see Him return" Acts 1:19

Mt 24:28-31 "immediately after the tribulation of those days" (35+10, dan 12:11,12 & rev 2:10) "...they shall see... the Son of man coming on the clouds.. and He will send out His angles to gather His elect from the four directions under heaven.."

Sorry if someone already posted these.. reading on..

[Seth]

Paul says "As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive

EACH TO HIS ORDER

Why? Because through ONE man death entered into the world AND DEATH BY SIN.

We are born with a carnal mind in Adam and IN CHRIST shall all be made alive, each to his ORDER.

[FreeAtLast]

Being dead in Adam means to have the death that Adam brought into the world: the carnal mind. Death. Everyone is born with a carnal mind, which is death. As they come into Christ they are delivered from the carnal mind as Romans 6 states.

what scripture do you use for that carnal mind entering the world--it was already in adam before he fell or else he would not have fallen ??

Man could have eaten of the tree of life and had eternal life

since man ate of the wrong tree--it was eternal death  --Soul Death

man didn't inherent anything from the fall that he didn't have before hand
adam chose to Sin
men choose to Sin


through adam--eternal DEATH
through Yahshua--eternal life

[Seth]

1 Cor 15
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23But every man in his own order Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

[Seth]

Being dead in Adam means to have the death that Adam brought into the world: the carnal mind. Death. Everyone is born with a carnal mind, which is death. As they come into Christ they are delivered from the carnal mind as Romans 6 states.

what scripture do you use for that carnal mind entering the world--it was already in adam before he fell or else he would not have fallen ??

Man could have eaten of the tree of life and had eternal life

since man ate of the wrong tree--it was eternal death  --Soul Death

man didn't inherent anything from the fall that he didn't have before hand
adam chose to Sin
men choose to Sin


through adam--eternal DEATH
through Yahshua--eternal life

The reason that to be carnally minded is death is because when Adam sinned he was expelled from God's presence. Paul said that we were alienated in our minds from God THROUGH WICKED WORKS. We are all the seed of Adam, expelled from God's presence through wicked works.

The seed of Adam does what Adam does. Remember when Jesus called the Jews sons of the devil and he denied that they were the seed of Abraham? Why? Because if they were the seed of Abraham they would do what Abraham did and believe and walk in obedience through faith.

[FreeAtLast]

1 Cor 15
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23But every man in his own order Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

so you are saying that all are not in Christ at this present time--but some are still in adam  ??

[Seth]

What I am saying is that all shall be made alive in Christ unto their own order. Not everyone is made alive in Christ. If you believe that everyone is in Christ already, fine. I don't see it that way. I see Romans 7, and Romans 6 explaining what it means to be joined unto Christ by the Spirit. But I do see in 1 Cor 15 that everyone shall be MADE ALIVE IN Christ unto his order.

If they are made alive in Christ unto their order, then they are made alive from being dead in Adam in their order too. Man moves from ONE to the OTHER but each to their order.

[marie glen]

Oh my gosh.. some of revelation from our perspective is preterist..

the Seals - some is preterist
1 - the victorious rider on a white horse.. the gospel, continues its ride to the 'end'

2 - war, rider on red horse and is given a "long" and, or "great sword".. (does that ring any bells?)

3 - shortage always follows war...

4 - pestilence always follows war (black death, etc, including chemical will kill in total 1/4 of all living) death and the grave (including the mass grave follows this one!

5 - martyrdom.. not yet done/full (see rev 20:4b) -  blood cries out like the blood of Abel..

6 - these seals are described as a blend of 2 things, their beginning and their fully mature state at the 'end'!! this is important for understanding the Bk of Rev.. now read it again, seal 6 and tell me it is not man's splitting of the atom, followed by a pause in it used as warfare - 7:1 ......?????? (man's splitting of the atom, surely? is also 13:13!!!!!!

Was it Isaiah said the planet will rock to and fro? yes, literal fufillment, why not? this is the lesson! Cannot walk away from / live separate from God.. can never work. Will never bring good..

I believe that's it for preterist except for most of Rev 12 a whole history from a different starting point.. history of the faith on earth.. complete.

See 7:1-? when the pause - of the split atom being used as warfare - ends, is the opening of the 7th seal, within which is the sounding of the 7 trumpets, and the bowls/finishing is in the 7th trump..

which btw, have we been resurrected yet. those who are alive and remain joining those asleep in Jesus, and meeting Him at His return.. then His feet touch down on the Mt of Olives, from where He left - "just as you saw Him go" (from the Mt of Olives) "SO shall you see Him return"

Zechariah 14:4 -
"And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

And the very throne of God comes to the earth.. fulfilled? has occurred? not that I can see! Man's doings seem, to me, to be still allowed to unfold and be running the show..

judgement / LOF outside Jerusalem.. still pending.. rev 16;14,15,16
:Peace2:

[FreeAtLast]

What I am saying is that all shall be made alive in Christ unto their own order. Not everyone is made alive in Christ. If you believe that everyone is in Christ already, fine. I don't see it that way. I see Romans 7, and Romans 6 explaining what it means to be joined unto Christ by the Spirit. But I do see in 1 Cor 15 that everyone shall be MADE ALIVE IN Christ unto his order.

made alive in Christ is different than having(Soul) life from the(Soul) death--meaning that Soul shall live and not be dead

By the righteousness of Yahshua --the free gift came upon ALL men unto justification of Life(Soul life from Soul death)what was the free gift??

when I say Soul Life--doesn't mean they all are made alive in Christ at the present time--but are alive(Soul)

being made alive in Christ--I take as the future promise of  ALL being made Righteous--even though all Live(Soul)they still need to be made alive in Christ.

hope I made this more plainer as to what im trying to say  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[FreeAtLast]

Oh my gosh.. some of revelation from our perspective is preterist..

the Seals - some is preterist
1 - the victorious rider on a white horse.. the gospel, continues its ride to the 'end'

2 - war, rider on red horse and is given a "long" and, or "great sword".. (does that ring any bells?)

3 - shortage always follows war...

4 - pestilence always follows war (black death, etc, including chemical will kill in total 1/4 of all living) death and the grave (including the mass grave follows this one!

5 - martyrdom.. not yet done/full (see rev 20:4b) -  blood cries out like the blood of Abel..

6 - these seals are described as a blend of 2 things, their beginning and their fully mature state at the 'end'!! this is important for understanding the Bk of Rev.. now read it again, seal 6 and tell me it is not man's splitting of the atom, followed by a pause in it used as warfare - 7:1 ......?????? (man's splitting of the atom, surely? is also 13:13!!!!!!

Was it Isaiah said the planet will rock to and fro? yes, literal fufillment, why not? this is the lesson! Cannot walk away from / live separate from God.. can never work. Will never bring good..

I believe that's it for preterist except for most of Rev 12 a whole history from a different starting point.. history of the faith on earth.. complete.

See 7:1-? when the pause - of the split atom being used as warfare - ends, is the opening of the 7th seal, within which is the sounding of the 7 trumpets, and the bowls/finishing is in the 7th trump..

which btw, have we been resurrected yet. those who are alive and remain joining those asleep in Jesus, and meeting Him at His return.. then His feet touch down on the Mt of Olives, from where He left - "just as you saw Him go" (from the Mt of Olives) "SO shall you see Him return"

Zechariah 14:4 -
"And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

And the very throne of God comes to the earth.. fulfilled? has occurred? not that I can see! Man's doings seem, to me, to be still allowed to unfold and be running the show..

judgement / LOF outside Jerusalem.. still pending.. rev 16;14,15,16
:Peace2:

like I said--we see as far as the light that shines in front of us lets us see   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[marie glen]

1 Cor 15
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23But every man in his own order Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Amen...

"..afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

doesn't this mean aLL power and authority on earth, other than God? phew.. that takes care of ISIS.. etc..

These verse of course, coincide with the coming of God's throne to the planet so that God will now "tabernacle" live with "mankind" upon an earth made new in a universe made new.. no more seas.. I see oceans still..

"behold I come quickly" is stated after all this prophesy about new heavens and earth and God's throne upon earth.. Praise the Lord.. I'd HATE to think man's world and empire continues on and on and on.. forever, nothing changing..  :eek:

[marie glen]

...and rev 20:4b is occurring right now in other parts of the world..

[Seth]

1 John 4:15
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1 John 4:13
Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1 John 2:5
But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

Colossians 2:6
As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him

1 John 2:28
And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

Acts 17:28
For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

1 John 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life (aionios life).

Romans 16:7
Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.

[FreeAtLast]

1 John 4:15
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1 John 4:13
Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1 John 2:5
But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

Colossians 2:6
As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him

1 John 2:28
And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

Acts 17:28
For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

1 John 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life (aionios life).

Romans 16:7
Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.

what was the free gift I quoted in my last post ??

[FreeAtLast]

1 John 4:15
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1 John 4:13
Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1 John 2:5
But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

Colossians 2:6
As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him

1 John 2:28
And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

Acts 17:28
For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

1 John 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life (aionios life).

Romans 16:7
Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.

what happens to a person that dies today ???

[marie glen]

1 thess 4 "asleep in Christ"

..."concerning those who have fallen asleep, that ye may not sorrow, as also the rest who have not hope,
14 for if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, so also God those asleep through Jesus he will bring with him,
15 for this to you we say in the word of the Lord, that we who are living -- who do remain over to the presence of the Lord -- may not precede those asleep,
16 because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first,
17 then we who are living, who are remaining over, together with them shall be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be;

God bless!! :smile:

[Seth]

The ambiguity here is the phrase "soul death." A soul being dead to me is the result of sin separating us from God in our minds. That's soul death. I understand what you mean by soul death as in immortality vs mortality. But I see a distinguishing between the promised immortality, and the life in Christ which puts an end to death, which is to be carnally minded.

Life and immortality are not the same thing. Life is "righteousness unto life" which is what the free gift is. The free gift that is upon all men, is the same thing as "the grace which brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us to abandon unrighteousness in this present age."

That's aionios zoe, the life of the age. Immortality will be added to that life as Paul says "this mortal must put on immortality."

The free gift is that God gives his Spirit without man needing to work for it. Man believes in Christ, Christ breaks the carnal mind, and brings life away from unrighteousness. That's righteousness unto life.

That's why I tell you that the saints in Jerusalem in 70AD were made alive in Christ before the Romans destroyed it. They were made alive according to the Romans 6 definition of being resurrected in Christ. Freedom from sin.

[eaglesway]

 :2c:

Those who sleep will awaken. Those who remain alive will follow. Some who are not sleeping, but are among the spirits of righteous men made perfect(Hebrews 12:22-24) will be in His vanguard. This, imo, is what Paul says he was hoping to "attain to" in Phil 3.

Who are they? Perhaps overcomers from throughout the ages. Where are they?The categorizing of where the dead and departed are is a science of opinion for the most part. As I see it God has more categories, options, abodes than most any systematic theology will allow for. Our boxes are always to small and too one dimensional. Our God has infinite dimensions and we cant see into them nearly so far as we would like to think we do.

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Hebrews 12 contains a picture of the eternal assembly. It has components. Those components are in different "rooms" or abodes as far as time is concerned, but they are all one aionian tabernacle also. As paul said several times, "In the presence of God and His holy angels I have decided to...etc". Paul acted in concert and council with the heavenly assembly as the prophets before him had as well.

Zec 3:7 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by.

Ezekiel 13:9 And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord God.

Psalm 83:1 Elohim takes his place in his own assembly.
    He pronounces judgment among the gods(mighty ones):

Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God(spirits of righteous men made perfect): I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:


the cosmology of these polarizing theologies seems too limited to me. I dont think they come anywhere near enveloping the truth about the things they assert so confidently. :o)

[marie glen]

I was just thinking.. if Revelation was fulfilled in 70a.d. why was it even written? having been written about 90 a.d.?

peace and God bless.. :smile:

[joeteekay]

I agree marie glen

All was not fulfilled. The book has much to do with future prophetic events IMO

[eaglesway]

I was just thinking.. if Revelation was fulfilled in 70a.d. why was it even written? having been written about 90 a.d.?

peace and God bless.. :smile:

I guess to tell people in parable and mystery what had already occurred in their plain site? :dontknow:

[micah7:9]

The Revelation of Jesus Christ has to do with PROPHECY period.

Rev 19:10  and I fell before his feet, to bow before him, and he saith to me, `See--not! fellow servant of thee am I, and of thy brethren, those having the testimony of Jesus; bow before God, for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of the prophecy.'
:HeartThrob: